“British historian questions why Australia places such significance on Gallipoli landing” – ABC News

A good question, in my opinion.

In fact, why do Australians seem to see the nation’s history as a series of military-conflict milestones? I’m sure that any street poll would reveal widespread ignorance of most historical events between those wars. Why the obsession with participation in conflict, and even then on a a selective basis, emphasising some episodes and basically ignoring others?

It leads to all sorts of stupidity. I mean, look at this schnook at the site of the Gallipoli battle:

Wrapped in his country’s flag as if it were some sort of beach towel (ironically ignorant of the sarcasm associated with the phrase ‘wrapping yourself in the flag’), trying to look ‘thoughtful’ for the camera. If he manages to pull that off, it might well be the first time a thought had existed between his ears.

There’s a lot more to this country’s history than wars. Go and read about the history of the union movement if you want to learn about the average Australian’s struggle against the odds, especially something like the history of the waterside workers’ unionism. It’d help people like our head-scarfed friend learn more about how Australia developed, and why we need to protect our rights and freedoms at home as much as abroad.

It was a great win for propaganda, goebels esque type skill, well done to the gubmint.

Perhaps its me but Australia as a nation come across as quite insecure, we over dramatise world events we are involved in to make out we are a big player when in actual fact our involvement has/had very little effect on the outcome

Gallipoli has been a rising tide ever since Howard got in

the film “ Gallipoli” is probably closer to the truth

thoughtless

brainless

badly planned

the prime minister had to send a journalist to find out what was going on

they would have been better off landing at troy on the mainland to the south and shutting down the coastal roads and shutting down the taxation beaches of the Ottoman Empire on the west coast.

war wise Australia’s last military victory was Malaysia under British control, no doubt some way in the media will pick this up in a few years

the main thing is that Gallipoli is an inspiration to the nations leaders that no matter happens , no one will ever be held accountable not take any consequences.

the peasants just go along for the ride because they’ve never been educated to any level to rebut or critique the official story

Cymek said:

Perhaps its me but Australia as a nation come across as quite insecure, we over dramatise world events we are involved in to make out we are a big player when in actual fact our involvement has/had very little effect on the outcome

I don’t think we over dramatise world events to create the perception that our contribution is more important than some other ‘thing’…I do agree though, we may be a little insecure (as far as the world stage is concerned), we never seem to make any moral or ethical stand against the US, always there for the US, no matter what.
I think Australia compromises a lot with reference to our place in world commerce and politics.

Aquila said:

Cymek said:

Perhaps its me but Australia as a nation come across as quite insecure, we over dramatise world events we are involved in to make out we are a big player when in actual fact our involvement has/had very little effect on the outcome

I don’t think we over dramatise world events to create the perception that our contribution is more important than some other ‘thing’…I do agree though, we may be a little insecure (as far as the world stage is concerned), we never seem to make any moral or ethical stand against the US, always there for the US, no matter what.
I think Australia compromises a lot with reference to our place in world commerce and politics.

It worries me that Australia will always be a bit player cowtowing or even sucking up to whatever nations are economically dominant, ignoring their human rights violations. We have huge resources for our population size and could become a big player in our region of the world if a long term plan was put in place.

Cymek said:

Aquila said:

Cymek said:

Perhaps its me but Australia as a nation come across as quite insecure, we over dramatise world events we are involved in to make out we are a big player when in actual fact our involvement has/had very little effect on the outcome

I don’t think we over dramatise world events to create the perception that our contribution is more important than some other ‘thing’…I do agree though, we may be a little insecure (as far as the world stage is concerned), we never seem to make any moral or ethical stand against the US, always there for the US, no matter what.
I think Australia compromises a lot with reference to our place in world commerce and politics.

It worries me that Australia will always be a bit player cowtowing or even sucking up to whatever nations are economically dominant, ignoring their human rights violations. We have huge resources for our population size and could become a big player in our region of the world if a long term plan was put in place.

IMO we should only ever been involved in one war. WWII v the Japanese.

Cymek said:

Aquila said:

Cymek said:

Perhaps its me but Australia as a nation come across as quite insecure, we over dramatise world events we are involved in to make out we are a big player when in actual fact our involvement has/had very little effect on the outcome

I don’t think we over dramatise world events to create the perception that our contribution is more important than some other ‘thing’…I do agree though, we may be a little insecure (as far as the world stage is concerned), we never seem to make any moral or ethical stand against the US, always there for the US, no matter what.
I think Australia compromises a lot with reference to our place in world commerce and politics.

It worries me that Australia will always be a bit player cowtowing or even sucking up to whatever nations are economically dominant, ignoring their human rights violations. We have huge resources for our population size and could become a big player in our region of the world if a long term plan was put in place.

in fairness, we already are a major regional player

If you start of something with an overgeneralizing inclusive proposition like…”…why do Australians seem to see..” (italic emphasis I added), then what’s the chances of much of the following is going to whatever it does……

I’m not sure whoever is trying to look thoughtful, whatever one might attribute those words regards whatever persons expressions in whatever context.

My parents are into this sort of thing, going right back including conflicts in England, even including conflicts way way back on that larger land mass east from there, like vikings and all that, too those ealiest germanic tribes that were maybe scandinavians. The blond haired blue eyed thing you know.

Half interesting it all is, but not that interesting.

On the subject sort of ideology, I’d guess types of historical determinism and cultural determinism have had some influence over the last century or so, and probably they shake hands and drink and eat together often.

I note too Australian culture doesn’t have much philosophy (religion inclusive) dealing with mortality/death, so the flag-waving reverence may fill the metaphysical hole some.

transition said:

If you start of something with an overgeneralizing inclusive proposition like…”…why do Australians seem to see..” (italic emphasis I added), then what’s the chances of much of the following is going to whatever it does……

I’m not sure whoever is trying to look thoughtful, whatever one might attribute those words regards whatever persons expressions in whatever context.

My parents are into this sort of thing, going right back including conflicts in England, even including conflicts way way back on that larger land mass east from there, like vikings and all that, too those ealiest germanic tribes that were maybe scandinavians. The blond haired blue eyed thing you know.

Half interesting it all is, but not that interesting.

On the subject sort of ideology, I’d guess types of historical determinism and cultural determinism have had some influence over the last century or so, and probably they shake hands and drink and eat together often.

I note too Australian culture doesn’t have much philosophy (religion inclusive) dealing with mortality/death, so the flag-waving reverence may fill the metaphysical hole some.

Flag waving in Australia has been spoilt by racists who drap themselves in the flag and go out and bash someone whom they consider not a true Australian, once you live here your an Australian regardless of your country of origin.

Cymek said:

Aquila said:

Cymek said:

Perhaps its me but Australia as a nation come across as quite insecure, we over dramatise world events we are involved in to make out we are a big player when in actual fact our involvement has/had very little effect on the outcome

I don’t think we over dramatise world events to create the perception that our contribution is more important than some other ‘thing’…I do agree though, we may be a little insecure (as far as the world stage is concerned), we never seem to make any moral or ethical stand against the US, always there for the US, no matter what.
I think Australia compromises a lot with reference to our place in world commerce and politics.

It worries me that Australia will always be a bit player cowtowing or even sucking up to whatever nations are economically dominant, ignoring their human rights violations. We have huge resources for our population size and could become a big player in our region of the world if a long term plan was put in place.

Yes, and a good start would be to create policy to diversify our economy, make it easier, simpler and less expensive for Australians to do business in Australia.
I understand we need some regulations in place, we don’t want to just pollute and degrade the natural environment for any economic cost but government policy and taxes are choking business.

I think the final word on WW I goes to Ataturk

Gallipoli – Memorial at Anzac Cove by Ataturk.
“Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives…
You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours…
You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace, after having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.”
Ataturk, 1934

There are few things that bring about more change than the death of someone close, unless of coarse we forget.

Deaths as a result of service with Australian units: 102,804

Deaths as a result of service with Australian units across all conflicts except World War I and World War II: 1640.

Australian fatalities at Gallipoli (April 25, 1915 to January 8, 1916): 8,159

nut said:

There are few things that bring about more change than the death of someone close, unless of coarse we forget.

Deaths as a result of service with Australian units: 102,804

Deaths as a result of service with Australian units across all conflicts except World War I and World War II: 1640.

Australian fatalities at Gallipoli (April 25, 1915 to January 8, 1916): 8,159

Refs:

https://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/gallipoli/fatalities/
https://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/war_casualties/

The forum is sloooooow, really slow.
For me anyway.

captain_spalding said:

“British historian questions why Australia places such significance on Gallipoli landing” – ABC News

A good question, in my opinion.

In fact, why do Australians seem to see the nation’s history as a series of military-conflict milestones? I’m sure that any street poll would reveal widespread ignorance of most historical events between those wars. Why the obsession with participation in conflict, and even then on a a selective basis, emphasising some episodes and basically ignoring others?

It leads to all sorts of stupidity. I mean, look at this schnook at the site of the Gallipoli battle:

Wrapped in his country’s flag as if it were some sort of beach towel (ironically ignorant of the sarcasm associated with the phrase ‘wrapping yourself in the flag’), trying to look ‘thoughtful’ for the camera. If he manages to pull that off, it might well be the first time a thought had existed between his ears.

There’s a lot more to this country’s history than wars. Go and read about the history of the union movement if you want to learn about the average Australian’s struggle against the odds, especially something like the history of the waterside workers’ unionism. It’d help people like our head-scarfed friend learn more about how Australia developed, and why we need to protect our rights and freedoms at home as much as abroad.

He didn’t pull it off, and they are all wearing beanies.

It leads to all sorts of stupidity. I mean, look at this schnook at the site of the Gallipoli battle:

Wrapped in his country’s flag as if it were some sort of beach towel (ironically ignorant of the sarcasm associated with the phrase ‘wrapping yourself in the flag’), trying to look ‘thoughtful’ for the camera. If he manages to pull that off, it might well be the first time a thought had existed between his ears.

There’s a lot more to this country’s history than wars. Go and read about the history of the union movement if you want to learn about the average Australian’s struggle against the odds, especially something like the history of the waterside workers’ unionism. It’d help people like our head-scarfed friend learn more about how Australia developed, and why we need to protect our rights and freedoms at home as much as abroad.

I don’t know who wrote the distasteful comments that accompanied this photo but what a prick of a thing to write.

i would imagine that the capt wrote it.

>I don’t know who wrote the distasteful comments that accompanied this photo but what a prick of a thing to write.

maybe some comfort in the knowledge it’s an obscure forum, in the context of deinstitutionalization and all that

i doubt the capt gives a shit whether it’s an obscure forum or not.

its all a load of jerk off anyway

It’s said that Australia is the only country in the world that commemorates it’s military defeat. As a warning not to get sucked in to a stupid war again.

mollwollfumble said:

It’s said that Australia is the only country in the world that commemorates it’s military defeat. As a warning not to get sucked in to a stupid war again.

“As a repeatedly-ignored warning not to get sucked in to a stupid war again.”

(Fixed.)

>>(ironically ignorant of the sarcasm associated with the phrase ‘wrapping yourself in the flag’),

You seem to have drawn a lot of conclusions from that photo.

captain_spalding said:

“British historian questions why Australia places such significance on Gallipoli landing” – ABC News

For much the same reasons that the British place significance on Dunkirk.

Apart from that, I agree with your comments.

The Rev Dodgson said:

captain_spalding said:

“British historian questions why Australia places such significance on Gallipoli landing” – ABC News

For much the same reasons that the British place significance on Dunkirk.

Apart from that, I agree with your comments.

And the Charge of the Light Brigade. Bravery in the face of insurmountable odds.

The Rev Dodgson said:

captain_spalding said:

“British historian questions why Australia places such significance on Gallipoli landing” – ABC News

For much the same reasons that the British place significance on Dunkirk.

Apart from that, I agree with your comments.

It’s to remind us that we should never place our troops under the command of non Australians.

I think it should not be too surprising that the ANZAC’s first land campaign of WWI gets special attention.
But I do think some of the coverage is overblown, calling it the “birth of the nation” etc. War is not the only thing nations do.

dv said:

I think it should not be too surprising that the ANZAC’s first land campaign of WWI gets special attention.
But I do think some of the coverage is overblown, calling it the “birth of the nation” etc. War is not the only thing nations do.

The Somme and other battles were a much larger loss for us in terms of wasted lives

Peak Warming Man said:

>>(ironically ignorant of the sarcasm associated with the phrase ‘wrapping yourself in the flag’),

You seem to have drawn a lot of conclusions from that photo.

Even if the bloke in it isn’t ‘just like that’, he’s a good portrait of many who are.

While not wanting to make too much of the ‘sacred flag’ thing, i think that choosing to drape yourself in it like it was one of your mum’s old curtains is a rather odd act, as it seems to contradict the spirit/emotion/reverence which he seems to be trying to conjure. If it’s a symbol that means that much to him, why treat it as if it were some sort of garment, like his t-shirt or jeans. It does suggest a lack of cogent thought about it to me.

Perhaps it’s just that i think ‘hipster’ when i see his image. Perhaps it’s just that i can’t conceive of what frisson of ‘patriotism’ people are chasing when they do that. I can’t imagine that any of the Australian soldiers he’s seeking to honour would have done it. They only time any of them might have ‘worn’r the flag was if it was draped over their coffin (if they got one of those).

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

captain_spalding said:

“British historian questions why Australia places such significance on Gallipoli landing” – ABC News

For much the same reasons that the British place significance on Dunkirk.

Apart from that, I agree with your comments.

It’s to remind us that we should never place our troops under the command of non Australians.

and what wars would you fight in then?