Date: 26/03/2015 10:44:38
From: Arts
ID: 697968
Subject: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

A father was amazed when his young son’s autism dramatically improved while taking an antibiotic for a throat infection.

American John Rodakis then began a quest to understand why this happened. What he found has now been published in the scientific journal Microbial Ecology in Health and Disease.

Rodakis, who is a medical venture capitalist with a background in molecular biology and has a Harvard MBA, began to examine the medical literature.

He found a study from 1999 conducted at Chicago Rush Children’s hospital documented a similar phenomenon in autistic children.

After speaking with other parents and clinicians, he discovered that improvements on antibiotics such the one his son experienced were frequently observed but not well studied.

“I was determined to understand what was happening in the hope of helping both my son and millions of other children with autism,” he said.

The quest led him to autism researcher Richard Frye, head of the Autism Research Program at Arkansas Children’s Hospital Research Institute. They began a collaboration.

“Careful parental observations can be crucial,” said Dr Frye. “In science we take these observations, put them through the scientific method, and see what we find. This is what can lead to ground breaking scientific discoveries and breakthroughs in the field.”

Fifteen years ago, another autism parent, Ellen Bolte, had what at the time was a far-fetched hypothesis: that gut bacteria played a role in some cases of autism.

Her efforts resulted in the small 1999 clinical trial conducted at Chicago Rush Children’s hospital that Rodakis found while doing his research.

Today, that hypothesis has grown into a large body of evidence demonstrating a link between the microbiome and autism, also called the “gut-brain” connection.

Other research has show that children with autism had less bacterial diversity in their guts.

The latest journal article by Rodakis outlines the personal story of how his child’s autism symptoms improved while taking a common antibiotic and then goes on to summarise recent research into possible biological mechanisms at work.

Rodakis does not suggest that antibiotics are a treatment for autism, but rather may be useful as a research tool.

“Current research is demonstrating that gut bacteria play previously undiscovered roles in health and disease throughout medicine,” Rodakis said. “The evidence is very strong that they also play a role in autism. It’s my hope that by studying these antibiotic-responding children, we can learn more about the core biology of autism.”

Original article from Business Insider.

http://www.sciencealert.com/antibiotics-can-improve-autism-in-some-children-new-paper-suggests

fascinating.. and seems to have more cred than anything else o this topic to date.

and pokes big holes in the anti-vaccination crowds main theories.. and will hopefully stop desperate parents from bleach enema-ing their poor children

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 10:52:27
From: Speedy
ID: 697970
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

Arts said:


Other research has show that children with autism had less bacterial diversity in their guts.

So one would expect that while taking anti-biotics, the bacterial diversity would be further reduced, no?

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Date: 26/03/2015 10:55:14
From: sibeen
ID: 697971
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

Arts said:

and will hopefully stop desperate parents from bleach enema-ing their poor children

Say what?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 10:59:32
From: poikilotherm
ID: 697973
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

with n=1 it must be good.

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Date: 26/03/2015 11:00:31
From: Arts
ID: 697974
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

sibeen said:


Arts said:

and will hopefully stop desperate parents from bleach enema-ing their poor children

Say what?

you don’t want to know.. I am still disturbed by that article.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 11:03:17
From: transition
ID: 697975
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

Lots of things may be different, like copper/zinc ratios

On the subject gut flora, how much not quite right does it have to be for a typical individual to affect higher functions. Not a lot.

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Date: 26/03/2015 11:03:44
From: Arts
ID: 697977
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

Arts said:


sibeen said:

Arts said:

and will hopefully stop desperate parents from bleach enema-ing their poor children

Say what?

you don’t want to know.. I am still disturbed by that article.


MMS. It stands for Miracle Mineral Solution.. you can do your own googling shudder

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 11:09:20
From: Cymek
ID: 697989
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

Perhaps the autistic children in question had a long term low grade fever and the antibiotics made them feel better and some of the negative aspects of the autism were reduced as they were feeling less sick.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 11:46:43
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 698018
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

Speedy said:


Arts said:

Other research has show that children with autism had less bacterial diversity in their guts.

So one would expect that while taking anti-biotics, the bacterial diversity would be further reduced, no?

the anti-biotics would be targeting specific bacteria, etc

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 12:00:45
From: Aquila
ID: 698022
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

I’m a little confused.
He’s saying his son’s symptoms improved while taking antibiotics.
It is my understanding that oral antibiotics basically kill ALL bacteria in the gut (good & bad bacteria).
-This is why it is often recommended to take some probiotics or eat acidophilus yoghurt after a course of antibiotics, to rebuild intestinal flora.

This scenario suggests his son would have even LESS gut bacteria than normal…

I’m struggling to see the correlation, maybe it is the way the article is written or my understanding is wrong.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 12:03:29
From: Cymek
ID: 698025
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

Aquila said:

  • Other research has show that children with autism had less bacterial diversity in their guts.

I’m a little confused.
He’s saying his son’s symptoms improved while taking antibiotics.
It is my understanding that oral antibiotics basically kill ALL bacteria in the gut (good & bad bacteria).
-This is why it is often recommended to take some probiotics or eat acidophilus yoghurt after a course of antibiotics, to rebuild intestinal flora.

This scenario suggests his son would have even LESS gut bacteria than normal…

I’m struggling to see the correlation, maybe it is the way the article is written or my understanding is wrong.

Perhaps autistic children have vastly different gut bacteria to other people and killing them off reduces diet related behaviours if such a thing exists.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 12:16:00
From: poikilotherm
ID: 698028
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

Aquila said:

  • Other research has show that children with autism had less bacterial diversity in their guts.

I’m a little confused.
He’s saying his son’s symptoms improved while taking antibiotics.
It is my understanding that oral antibiotics basically kill ALL bacteria in the gut (good & bad bacteria).
-This is why it is often recommended to take some probiotics or eat acidophilus yoghurt after a course of antibiotics, to rebuild intestinal flora.

This scenario suggests his son would have even LESS gut bacteria than normal…

I’m struggling to see the correlation, maybe it is the way the article is written or my understanding is wrong.


perhaps it’s just confirmation bias.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 12:20:51
From: transition
ID: 698029
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

>I’m struggling to see the correlation, maybe it is the way the article is written or my understanding is wrong.

makes sense that less overall bacteria (in context antibiotics) might tend improvements compared with whatever native mix/flora that an individuals body settles on, doesn’t mean much really.

for starters bacteria may be considered just one category of gut flora

we don’t know much really, for example it was only recenty, chinese research think it was, worked out why the flu can cause an upset stomach.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 12:40:06
From: Aquila
ID: 698035
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

Cymek said:


Aquila said:
  • Other research has show that children with autism had less bacterial diversity in their guts.

I’m a little confused.
He’s saying his son’s symptoms improved while taking antibiotics.
It is my understanding that oral antibiotics basically kill ALL bacteria in the gut (good & bad bacteria).
-This is why it is often recommended to take some probiotics or eat acidophilus yoghurt after a course of antibiotics, to rebuild intestinal flora.

This scenario suggests his son would have even LESS gut bacteria than normal…

I’m struggling to see the correlation, maybe it is the way the article is written or my understanding is wrong.

Perhaps autistic children have vastly different gut bacteria to other people and killing them off reduces diet related behaviours if such a thing exists.

Possibly, I guess much more research is required.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 12:41:28
From: buffy
ID: 698038
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

I can see that look on your face from here poik…

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 12:45:40
From: Aquila
ID: 698043
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

poikilotherm said:


Aquila said:
  • Other research has show that children with autism had less bacterial diversity in their guts.

I’m a little confused.
He’s saying his son’s symptoms improved while taking antibiotics.
It is my understanding that oral antibiotics basically kill ALL bacteria in the gut (good & bad bacteria).
-This is why it is often recommended to take some probiotics or eat acidophilus yoghurt after a course of antibiotics, to rebuild intestinal flora.

This scenario suggests his son would have even LESS gut bacteria than normal…

I’m struggling to see the correlation, maybe it is the way the article is written or my understanding is wrong.


perhaps it’s just confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias is a powerful psychological process, however, with the father being a scientist with a background in molecular biology and has an MBA from Harvard, you would hope to rule out confirmation bias, but obviously there will be some emotional attachment/connection in this case…

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 12:47:14
From: Aquila
ID: 698045
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

transition said:


>I’m struggling to see the correlation, maybe it is the way the article is written or my understanding is wrong.

makes sense that less overall bacteria (in context antibiotics) might tend improvements compared with whatever native mix/flora that an individuals body settles on, doesn’t mean much really.

for starters bacteria may be considered just one category of gut flora

we don’t know much really, for example it was only recenty, chinese research think it was, worked out why the flu can cause an upset stomach.

I don’t know, I’m not a biologist but it doesn’t make sense to me.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 12:52:21
From: poikilotherm
ID: 698047
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

buffy said:

I can see that look on your face from here poik…

ha :)

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 12:53:33
From: poikilotherm
ID: 698049
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

Aquila said:


poikilotherm said:

Aquila said:
  • Other research has show that children with autism had less bacterial diversity in their guts.

I’m a little confused.
He’s saying his son’s symptoms improved while taking antibiotics.
It is my understanding that oral antibiotics basically kill ALL bacteria in the gut (good & bad bacteria).
-This is why it is often recommended to take some probiotics or eat acidophilus yoghurt after a course of antibiotics, to rebuild intestinal flora.

This scenario suggests his son would have even LESS gut bacteria than normal…

I’m struggling to see the correlation, maybe it is the way the article is written or my understanding is wrong.


perhaps it’s just confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias is a powerful psychological process, however, with the father being a scientist with a background in molecular biology and has an MBA from Harvard, you would hope to rule out confirmation bias, but obviously there will be some emotional attachment/connection in this case…

Yea I’m sure bags of money and a scientific background get rid of all potential bias, I mean Pauling was all over it with Vit C and cancer and Dr. Burzynski’s knows his shit…

Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 13:00:21
From: Aquila
ID: 698054
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

poikilotherm said:


Aquila said:

poikilotherm said:

perhaps it’s just confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias is a powerful psychological process, however, with the father being a scientist with a background in molecular biology and has an MBA from Harvard, you would hope to rule out confirmation bias, but obviously there will be some emotional attachment/connection in this case…

Yea I’m sure bags of money and a scientific background get rid of all potential bias, I mean Pauling was all over it with Vit C and cancer and Dr. Burzynski’s knows his shit…

*chuckle

Yeah, I’ll have to take your word on it..

)
Reply Quote

Date: 26/03/2015 13:39:09
From: Arts
ID: 698074
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

poikilotherm said:


Aquila said:
  • Other research has show that children with autism had less bacterial diversity in their guts.

I’m a little confused.
He’s saying his son’s symptoms improved while taking antibiotics.
It is my understanding that oral antibiotics basically kill ALL bacteria in the gut (good & bad bacteria).
-This is why it is often recommended to take some probiotics or eat acidophilus yoghurt after a course of antibiotics, to rebuild intestinal flora.

This scenario suggests his son would have even LESS gut bacteria than normal…

I’m struggling to see the correlation, maybe it is the way the article is written or my understanding is wrong.


perhaps it’s just confirmation bias.

indeed.. the article does say that the ‘observations’ need to be now looked at scientifically (tested under conditions) but it’s a start and a ‘theory’ that was observed by more than one unrelated parent… it’s a good lead to follow up on IMO

Reply Quote

Date: 27/03/2015 04:21:44
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 698408
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

> A father was amazed when his young son’s autism dramatically improved while taking an antibiotic for a throat infection.

Coincidence. By the way, what exactly counts as a “dramatic improvement in autism”?

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Date: 27/03/2015 09:13:10
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 698454
Subject: re: The link between gut bacteria and autism is building.

mollwollfumble said:


> A father was amazed when his young son’s autism dramatically improved while taking an antibiotic for a throat infection.

Coincidence. By the way, what exactly counts as a “dramatic improvement in autism”?

I suppose they mean that the positive aspects of the condition increased dramatically.

Or perhaps not.

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