Basically, the idea is to introduce native (or near native) animals into areas. For example, putting Komodo dragons onto mainland Australia to regenerate the natural ecosystems in the same way that more dingoes could keep feral cats and dogs under wraps.

There’s a 7 minute video here
It’s from Weekend Sunrise, so not the world’s best source… but anyway.

Discuss.

My personal favourite bit is where the “enthusiast” says megafauna is the default state of all ecosystems.

Sure, maybe during the Carboniferous era…

Divine Angel said:

My personal favourite bit is where the “enthusiast” says megafauna is the default state of all ecosystems.

Sure, maybe during the Carboniferous era…

Ha. Although NZ’s only dieded hundreds of years ago.

There’s a species of caiman that predates on cane toads. I think we should import and release them too.

Divine Angel said:

My personal favourite bit is where the “enthusiast” says megafauna is the default state of all ecosystems.

Sure, maybe during the Carboniferous era…

The end of the Pleistocene was when the megafauna crashed.

The idea of Komodo dragons is to substitute for Meglania. It’s sort of like replacing a tiger with a feisty kitten.
I have no idea what you’d use to replace Thylacoleo.

There’s a Pleistocene rewilding project that’s been running in Siberia for almost 30 years. Pleistocene Park

you build fleets of robots to seek and destroy feral animals

cane toads

feral cats

foxes

rats / cats on wildlife colonies

instead of building a fence you cut a firezone in the shrub

towers look down the firezone – they can see for kilometres

large scopes watch the firezone

when a cane toad, fox, cat tries to cross the large telescope sees it, identifies it and fires a laser at it

wookiemeister said:

you build fleets of robots to seek and destroy feral animals

cane toads

feral cats

foxes

rats / cats on wildlife colonies

instead of building a fence you cut a firezone in the shrub

towers look down the firezone – they can see for kilometres

large scopes watch the firezone

when a cane toad, fox, cat tries to cross the large telescope sees it, identifies it and fires a laser at it

We still haven’t perfected the robot vacuum cleaner.

the other option is a tracked vehicle that has a scope and gun on it

it looks for things like cane toads and identifies them by shining light on their skin – when it see the cane toad signature it blasts it with some clay bullets

party_pants said:

We still haven’t perfected the robot vacuum cleaner.

Apparently they’ve been taken over by cats.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

you build fleets of robots to seek and destroy feral animals

cane toads

feral cats

foxes

rats / cats on wildlife colonies

instead of building a fence you cut a firezone in the shrub

towers look down the firezone – they can see for kilometres

large scopes watch the firezone

when a cane toad, fox, cat tries to cross the large telescope sees it, identifies it and fires a laser at it

We still haven’t perfected the robot vacuum cleaner.

another option is to have an army of environmental gamers ready to identify feral cats , foxes etc

as they are on the computer an image pops up of a suspected feral animal, the gamer brings the cross hairs onto the animal and blasts it

if you had an army of say 10,000 environmentalists killing say 50 feral animals a night you’d cut a huge swathe into the cat population overnight

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

if you had an army of say 10,000 environmentalists killing say 50 feral animals a night you’d cut a huge swathe into the cat population overnight

So sterilising cats is not wu-tang enough for you?

wookiemeister said:

you build fleets of robots to seek and destroy feral animals

cane toads

feral cats

foxes

rats / cats on wildlife colonies

instead of building a fence you cut a firezone in the shrub

towers look down the firezone – they can see for kilometres

large scopes watch the firezone

when a cane toad, fox, cat tries to cross the large telescope sees it, identifies it and fires a laser at it

How do you propose to deal with feral ants?

Teleost said:

wookiemeister said:

you build fleets of robots to seek and destroy feral animals

cane toads

feral cats

foxes

rats / cats on wildlife colonies

instead of building a fence you cut a firezone in the shrub

towers look down the firezone – they can see for kilometres

large scopes watch the firezone

when a cane toad, fox, cat tries to cross the large telescope sees it, identifies it and fires a laser at it

How do you propose to deal with feral ants?

Same as above – just make them smaller. Way, way, smaller.

captain_spalding said:

Teleost said:

wookiemeister said:

you build fleets of robots to seek and destroy feral animals

cane toads

feral cats

foxes

rats / cats on wildlife colonies

instead of building a fence you cut a firezone in the shrub

towers look down the firezone – they can see for kilometres

large scopes watch the firezone

when a cane toad, fox, cat tries to cross the large telescope sees it, identifies it and fires a laser at it

How do you propose to deal with feral ants?

Same as above – just make them smaller. Way, way, smaller.

Just stick tiny lasers on captured ants and send them back to their colony. Then see who get’s the highest score in Grand Theft Ant Massacre……….

The Cane Toad was brought here to eat the Cane Beetle, but thought bugger that, I’ll eat all the other stuff.
The Cat was brought here to eat the introduced mice and rats, but thought the bushrats and others were much better and easier to catch.
The fox was introduced for sport and to control rabbits, but thought why don’t I snack on the native fauna, they are just as tasty.

Will the Komodo Dragon be any different, or for that matter any introduced animal?

PermeateFree said:

The Cane Toad was brought here to eat the Cane Beetle, but thought bugger that, I’ll eat all the other stuff.
The Cat was brought here to eat the introduced mice and rats, but thought the bushrats and others were much better and easier to catch.
The fox was introduced for sport and to control rabbits, but thought why don’t I snack on the native fauna, they are just as tasty.

Will the Komodo Dragon be any different, or for that matter any introduced animal?

The Komodo has recently taken a human down. Our feral cats aren’t that bad yet.

Postpocelipse said:

PermeateFree said:

The Cane Toad was brought here to eat the Cane Beetle, but thought bugger that, I’ll eat all the other stuff.
The Cat was brought here to eat the introduced mice and rats, but thought the bushrats and others were much better and easier to catch.
The fox was introduced for sport and to control rabbits, but thought why don’t I snack on the native fauna, they are just as tasty.

Will the Komodo Dragon be any different, or for that matter any introduced animal?

The Komodo has recently taken a human down. Our feral cats aren’t that bad yet.

They can take out Water Buffalo too.

PermeateFree said:

Postpocelipse said:

PermeateFree said:

The Cane Toad was brought here to eat the Cane Beetle, but thought bugger that, I’ll eat all the other stuff.
The Cat was brought here to eat the introduced mice and rats, but thought the bushrats and others were much better and easier to catch.
The fox was introduced for sport and to control rabbits, but thought why don’t I snack on the native fauna, they are just as tasty.

Will the Komodo Dragon be any different, or for that matter any introduced animal?

The Komodo has recently taken a human down. Our feral cats aren’t that bad yet.

They can take out Water Buffalo too.

You’d be better off getting anacondas in. And that isn’t a recomendation.

Teleost said:

wookiemeister said:

you build fleets of robots to seek and destroy feral animals

cane toads

feral cats

foxes

rats / cats on wildlife colonies

instead of building a fence you cut a firezone in the shrub

towers look down the firezone – they can see for kilometres

large scopes watch the firezone

when a cane toad, fox, cat tries to cross the large telescope sees it, identifies it and fires a laser at it

How do you propose to deal with feral ants?

robots with lasers

some feral ants are drawn to heat

make a honey trap to draw them out and then zap them

I’m sure we all know that rewilding Australia means kicking us out.

> Discuss.

There are two things associated with this that I’m very much in favour of.
1. Relocating highly endangered species. The Wollemi Pine is a great example of what can be done.
2. Aiming for maximum biodiversity.

There are two things that I tend to object to.
1. Return to a supposedly halcyon past state. For instance if we were to take this principle literally then we would have to kill off most of Australia’s koalas – for they were very rare in Australia before humans arrived.
2. Micromanagement or the elimination of unwanted species. For example overuse of herbicides and insecticides, and excessive weeding or culling of unwanted animal species.

mollwollfumble said:

> Discuss.

There are two things associated with this that I’m very much in favour of.
1. Relocating highly endangered species. The Wollemi Pine is a great example of what can be done.
2. Aiming for maximum biodiversity.

There are two things that I tend to object to.
1. Return to a supposedly halcyon past state. For instance if we were to take this principle literally then we would have to kill off most of Australia’s koalas – for they were very rare in Australia before humans arrived.
2. Micromanagement or the elimination of unwanted species. For example overuse of herbicides and insecticides, and excessive weeding or culling of unwanted animal species.

Relocating HES is risky and often prone to failure. ie: I’ve commented on Wollemi before and been shouted down but I really would like to see the stats on how many of the numbers propagated are still alive. Stuff like the dwarf pines at Wentworth falls and a couple of other locations, probably could not grow anywhere else.

Maximum diversity in which demographic? ie: Our population expansion constantly requires more land and resources. We haven’t got the habitat and corridoors to manage much at all.

We cannot return to the past, that’s for certain.

All idea of aiming for maximum biodiversity does actually require micromanagement of habitats and does require removal or eradication of both flora and fauna that has been introduced. Many species have had to relocate in order to survive.

I’ve always been wary of applying pesticides and herbicides. In fact I’m more prone to use companion planting to increase predators and crowd out weeds.

It isn’t only agricultural chemicals. Anyone having watched the recent Catalyst on chemicals in our environment should be well aware.

roughbarked said:

We cannot return to the past, that’s for certain.

As cool as it would be to have giant wombats wandering around again. Imagine the damage to your car if you hit one!

Divine Angel said:

roughbarked said:

We cannot return to the past, that’s for certain.

As cool as it would be to have giant wombats wandering around again. Imagine the damage to your car if you hit one!

The giant wombats and roos were also carnivorous.

Divine Angel said:

roughbarked said:

We cannot return to the past, that’s for certain.

As cool as it would be to have giant wombats wandering around again. Imagine the damage to your car if you hit one!

we wouldn`t need cars… just saddle up your wombat…

Postpocelipse said:

The giant wombats and roos were also carnivorous.

I sense a new reality show…

Divine Angel said:

Postpocelipse said:

The giant wombats and roos were also carnivorous.

I sense a new reality show…

Apart from the fact that insects could be giants?

Divine Angel said:

Postpocelipse said:

The giant wombats and roos were also carnivorous.

I sense a new reality show…

Yeah I was thinking the Japanese could pay us to have giant creatures battle it out in our deserts rather than their cities. :P

I was thinking more aline the lines of a true Survivor, or Hunger Games trying to hide from giant, meat eating beasts.

Divine Angel said:

I was thinking more aline the lines of a true Survivor, or Hunger Games trying to hide from giant, meat eating beasts.

I’m not sure you could hide from them. Even a small wombat can smell whats underground, I’m fairly certain.

Postpocelipse said:

Divine Angel said:

I was thinking more aline the lines of a true Survivor, or Hunger Games trying to hide from giant, meat eating beasts.

I’m not sure you could hide from them. Even a small wombat can smell whats underground, I’m fairly certain.

that’s the reason dead people were buried 6 feet down.

it’s the minimum distance needed to prevent wild animals from smelling them

mollwollfumble said:

> Discuss.

There are two things associated with this that I’m very much in favour of.
1. Relocating highly endangered species. The Wollemi Pine is a great example of what can be done.
2. Aiming for maximum biodiversity.

Relocating endangered species is a last ditch effort for when all other measures have failed. Before we ever look at this option, we should be focusing on ecosystem protection and rehabilitation. There are reasons that organisms are found in certain ecosystems. It’s their optimal habitat. Relocation to sub optimal habitat is hardly a great idea. Protect the habitat, protect the organism.

Then there’s also side affects. The lake Pedder Galaxiid was translocated to Lake Oberon in an attempt to keep a population alive. It has worked spectacularly. The problem is that it has wiped out entire populations of invertebrates, with a very high chance that there were a number on undescribed species amongst them. In the long term, I think there’s a good chance of the Galaxiid population exceeding the carrying capacity of the lake.

Maria Island is already having problems with the Noah’s ark approach for Tasmanian devils with a number of species in decline due to predation pressure that previously didn’t exist.

mollwollfumble said:

There are two things that I tend to object to.
1. Return to a supposedly halcyon past state. For instance if we were to take this principle literally then we would have to kill off most of Australia’s koalas – for they were very rare in Australia before humans arrived.
2. Micromanagement or the elimination of unwanted species. For example overuse of herbicides and insecticides, and excessive weeding or culling of unwanted animal species.

You’re right, we can’t go backwards, but we have an aboslute need to manage invasive species at all levels and where ever possible, eradicate.

Have you seen the results of a Miconia calvescens infestation? Once established, it forms monocultural stands displacing native all native vegetation and wildlife. If let spread, it would destroy the diversity of out tropical rainforests.

When we let things go, they spread. Look at Siam weed. It’s now up in the Herbert river gorge. Asian honeybees are not going to stop, expect to see some in a town near you soon.

What about Yellow Crazy Ants? When you’ve stood in the middle of a super colony with ants crawling all over you and no animals (inverts, mammals, amphibians, birds – all of them) left alive in the area you’ll see why we need to eradicate. Managing the population isn’t an option as it will continue to spread via waterways and human assisted dispersal and soon reach areas where any form of management is no longer possible.

One of my sites backs on to the drinking water catchment for Cairns. If the ants are allowed to cross the ridge into that catchment, I will no longer be able to use insecticides. There are no predators and the only form of control left to is through the introduction of wasps to control scale insect populations (unlikely to ever be allowed).

So the choices:
Do nothing and face devastating damage to a world heritage listed rainforest (amongst so many other issues) and an uncontested spread throughout FNQ. And make no mistake, if left to their own devices, these ants will eventually colonise almost all the way down the east coast.

Attempt to simply contain the current infestation and face a permanent cost for management and still get dispersal via humans and waterways.

Or attempt eradication by spending a few million to nuke them from space and accept a level of collateral damage to an ecosystem that will recover.

If you want maximum diversity, you need to think a bit more on how to manage these sort of problems. As far as I can see the best, actually the only way to achieve this is to protect and rehabilitate entire ecosystems on a large scale.

Teleost said:

Finally some sense.

What?
Are you saying I normally talk rubbish? </TIC> ;P

Teleost said:

What?
Are you saying I normally talk rubbish? </TIC> ;P

No. The rest of the thread was a bit silly, is all. ;)

Divine Angel said:

My personal favourite bit is where the “enthusiast” says megafauna is the default state of all ecosystems.

Sure, maybe during the Carboniferous era…

Well Australia was well stocked with megafauna before colonisation.

dv said:

Divine Angel said:

My personal favourite bit is where the “enthusiast” says megafauna is the default state of all ecosystems.

Sure, maybe during the Carboniferous era…

Well Australia was well stocked with megafauna before colonisation.

White colonisation or black?

Tamb said:

dv said:

Divine Angel said:

My personal favourite bit is where the “enthusiast” says megafauna is the default state of all ecosystems.

Sure, maybe during the Carboniferous era…

Well Australia was well stocked with megafauna before colonisation.

White colonisation or black?

Human. The colour of Australia’s first humans is not known.

dv said:

Tamb said:

dv said:

Well Australia was well stocked with megafauna before colonisation.

White colonisation or black?

Human. The colour of Australia’s first humans is not known.

Human, yes.

Tamb said:

dv said:

Tamb said:

White colonisation or black?

Human. The colour of Australia’s first humans is not known.

Human, yes.

Didn’t I say that to put everything back, we must begone?

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

dv said:

Human. The colour of Australia’s first humans is not known.

Human, yes.

Didn’t I say that to put everything back, we must begone?

To put everything back, we would need magic

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Human, yes.

Didn’t I say that to put everything back, we must begone?

To put everything back, we would need magic

maybe we should paint our fingernails black?

>>Well Australia was well stocked with megafauna before colonisation.

There weren’t that many.

Peak Warming Man said:

>>Well Australia was well stocked with megafauna before colonisation.

There weren’t that many.

How so?

Wild lynx to return to Britain after 1,300 years

In one of the most ambitious ‘rewilding’ projects ever to take place in the UK, the large deer-eating felines could be introduced to three unfenced estates later this year

The Lynx could be reintroduced to the West Coast of Scotland.

If the plan is given the green light, four to six Eurasian lynx will be released later this year at three sites

Known as the Keeper of Secrets, the elusive forest-dwelling creature has been extinct in Britain for over 1,300 years.

But now the wild lynx could roam the woods of England and Scotland once again, as part of the most ambitious “rewilding” project ever attempted in the UK.

If the Lynx UK Trust’s scheme is approved, the large cats, which prey on deer as well as rabbit and hare, will be released onto three privately owned, unfenced estates in Norfolk, Cumbria and Aberdeenshire.

Read more:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/11457882/Wild-lynx-to-return-to-Britain-after-1300-years.html

Tassie Devils in Victoria….

Witty Rejoinder said:

Wild lynx to return to Britain after 1,300 years

In one of the most ambitious ‘rewilding’ projects ever to take place in the UK, the large deer-eating felines could be introduced to three unfenced estates later this year

The Lynx could be reintroduced to the West Coast of Scotland.

If the plan is given the green light, four to six Eurasian lynx will be released later this year at three sites

Known as the Keeper of Secrets, the elusive forest-dwelling creature has been extinct in Britain for over 1,300 years.

But now the wild lynx could roam the woods of England and Scotland once again, as part of the most ambitious “rewilding” project ever attempted in the UK.

If the Lynx UK Trust’s scheme is approved, the large cats, which prey on deer as well as rabbit and hare, will be released onto three privately owned, unfenced estates in Norfolk, Cumbria and Aberdeenshire.

Read more:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/11457882/Wild-lynx-to-return-to-Britain-after-1300-years.html

You’d need to keep the damn fox hunters away from them.

>>will be released onto three privately owned, unfenced estates

They’ll escape.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Wild lynx to return to Britain after 1,300 years

In one of the most ambitious ‘rewilding’ projects ever to take place in the UK, the large deer-eating felines could be introduced to three unfenced estates later this year

The Lynx could be reintroduced to the West Coast of Scotland.

If the plan is given the green light, four to six Eurasian lynx will be released later this year at three sites

Known as the Keeper of Secrets, the elusive forest-dwelling creature has been extinct in Britain for over 1,300 years.

But now the wild lynx could roam the woods of England and Scotland once again, as part of the most ambitious “rewilding” project ever attempted in the UK.

If the Lynx UK Trust’s scheme is approved, the large cats, which prey on deer as well as rabbit and hare, will be released onto three privately owned, unfenced estates in Norfolk, Cumbria and Aberdeenshire.

Read more:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/11457882/Wild-lynx-to-return-to-Britain-after-1300-years.html

Just wait till one kills a farmer’s favourite dog or cow or toddler.

Dropbear said:

Tassie Devils in Victoria….

That’d give the feral cat community a shakeup.

Peak Warming Man said:

Dropbear said:

Tassie Devils in Victoria….

That’d give the feral cat community a shakeup.

Nah, feral cats will out-compete them for food, and then eat their staring young.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Wild lynx to return to Britain after 1,300 years

In one of the most ambitious ‘rewilding’ projects ever to take place in the UK, the large deer-eating felines could be introduced to three unfenced estates later this year

The Lynx could be reintroduced to the West Coast of Scotland.

If the plan is given the green light, four to six Eurasian lynx will be released later this year at three sites

Known as the Keeper of Secrets, the elusive forest-dwelling creature has been extinct in Britain for over 1,300 years.

But now the wild lynx could roam the woods of England and Scotland once again, as part of the most ambitious “rewilding” project ever attempted in the UK.

If the Lynx UK Trust’s scheme is approved, the large cats, which prey on deer as well as rabbit and hare, will be released onto three privately owned, unfenced estates in Norfolk, Cumbria and Aberdeenshire.

Read more:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/11457882/Wild-lynx-to-return-to-Britain-after-1300-years.html

That’s nowhere near enough to establish a sustainable population and there’s no way that four to six animals would be able to keep the deer population under control. Seems like a poorly thought out idea.

Marketing “wild” deer for consumption would make a much larger impact.

party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Dropbear said:

Tassie Devils in Victoria….

That’d give the feral cat community a shakeup.

Nah, feral cats will out-compete them for food, and then eat their staring young.

The Tassie Devils would be hard pushed to catch a mature cat, but they raid the nests of feral cats and eat the young. They will do the same for foxes and hence contain feral numbers, so a very good idea.