What starchy vegetables were most commonly eaten in the British Isles before the introduction of the potato?
beets? turnips?
dv said:
What starchy vegetables were most commonly eaten in the British Isles before the introduction of the potato?
Salsify, turnips?
We had wild salsify in Australia from very early on.
roughbarked said:
dv said:
What starchy vegetables were most commonly eaten in the British Isles before the introduction of the potato?
Salsify, turnips?
rice and pasta?
oh sorry you said vegetable carry on
reading a little just now seem vegies weren’t high on the foodstuff list before the 1800s.
http://www.history-magazine.com/potato.html
dunno how accurate.
I suppose cabbage is somewhat starchy and there are references to it in Chaucer.
Arts said:
roughbarked said:
dv said:
What starchy vegetables were most commonly eaten in the British Isles before the introduction of the potato?
Salsify, turnips?
rice and pasta?
No…
ChrispenEvan said:
http://www.history-magazine.com/potato.htmldunno how accurate.
Various Solanaceae exist around the world. There are many yams that would have been eaten long before the potato travelled the world.
and legumes.
we’re talking british isles before 1600, so no yams.
http://www.bonappetit.com/trends/article/what-the-irish-ate-before-potatoes
radishes I suppose but srsly how many of them can you eat?
ChrispenEvan said:
we’re talking british isles before 1600, so no yams.
I’m unaware whether there are species of yams native to the region. However, Salsify is.
that one was the second result on my search buffy.
dv said:
radishes I suppose but srsly how many of them can you eat?
I eat radishes daily and I eat the seeds and young pods.
dv said:
Arts said:
roughbarked said:Salsify, turnips?
rice and pasta?
No…
fine then.. i don’t want to think about a world without potatoes
ChrispenEvan said:
that one was the second result on my search buffy.
Interesting, I thought. Possibly part of the reason those of us with Irish ancestry are not, in general, lactose intolerant. And why in my family you drink milk as second nature. Not into the soured stuff much though. And I dislike yoghurt. A lot. Sour cream on potato is good.
buffy said:
http://www.bonappetit.com/trends/article/what-the-irish-ate-before-potatoes
Thanks, buffy.
“Grains, either as bread or porridge, were the other mainstay of the pre-potato Irish diet, and the most common was the humble oat, usually made into oatcakes and griddled (ovens hadn’t really taken off yet)”
Yeah, maybe they were more grain dependent.
Historians debate whether the potato was primarily a cause or an effect of the huge population boom in industrial-era England and Wales. Prior to 1800, the English diet had consisted primarily of meat, supplemented by bread, butter and cheese. Few vegetables were consumed, most vegetables being regarded as nutritionally worthless and potentially harmful. This view began to change gradually in the late 1700s.
from my link.
dv said:
buffy said:http://www.bonappetit.com/trends/article/what-the-irish-ate-before-potatoes
Thanks, buffy.
“Grains, either as bread or porridge, were the other mainstay of the pre-potato Irish diet, and the most common was the humble oat, usually made into oatcakes and griddled (ovens hadn’t really taken off yet)”
Yeah, maybe they were more grain dependent.
Stands to reason if they were living on dairy the rest of the time. Cows eat pasture and a lot of that is grain crops.
Gode Cookery gives the following:
Benes yfryed – fried beans with garlic & onions.
Cabochis – a simple cabbage dish.
Fruays – an apple bread pudding.
For to make chireseye – a cherry pudding decorated with flowers.
French iowtes – peas porridge with onions.
Frytour of pasternakes, of skirwittes, & of apples – batter-fried carrots, parsnips & apples, dressed in almond milk.
Rysshews of fruyt – spiced rissoles of fruit.
Soupes dorroy – toasted bread in almond milk, onions, & wine.
Spynoches yfryed – fried spinach.
Mmmm pease pudding.
History: Originating in the Mediterranean area, scorzonera and salsify were foraged and used by the ancient Romans as well as the Greeks. People never thought to cultivate them until sometime around the 1500s. They were then used for ornamental, medicinal, and culinary purposes. In the Middle Ages, scorzonera was considered a powerful tonic and snakebite cure — hence the name viper’s grass. Salsify came to America in the 1700s and was at one time a popular root crop. When modern refrigeration and shipping techniques made the storage of perishable foods easy, salsify fell out of favor.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/unusual-vegetables-scorzonera-salsify-celtuce-zmaz94onzraw.aspx
This is also interesting and lists various foods:
http://people.eku.edu/resorc/Medieval_peasant_diet.htm
ChrispenEvan said:
Mmmm pease pudding.
pease like ‘em ‘ot, pease like ‘em cold. Pease even like them nine days old.
Arts said:
dv said:
Arts said:rice and pasta?
No…
fine then.. i don’t want to think about a world without potatoes
Leeks are a bit starchy
Me loves leeks. They blend well with potatoes.
From my garden. A type of bean not commonly found these days but was the mainstay of the gladiators.
known in europe as the soldier bean.
dv said:
Arts said:
dv said:No…
fine then.. i don’t want to think about a world without potatoes
Leeks are a bit starchy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuisine_of_the_Thirteen_Colonies
The Oxford English Dictionary traces the first use of the word “pie” as it relates to food to 1303, noting the word was well-known and popular by 1362.
http://pinterest.com/foodtimeline/
Actually I apologise for my “No” regarding rice: apparently it was known in 14th century England but was something of a luxury item.
But not pasta…
dv said:
Actually I apologise for my “No” regarding rice: apparently it was known in 14th century England but was something of a luxury item.But not pasta…
There are quite a few grasses known as wild rice.
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/vege1.htm
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Actually I apologise for my “No” regarding rice: apparently it was known in 14th century England but was something of a luxury item.But not pasta…
There are quite a few grasses known as wild rice.
There are but they don’t grow in, or near, the British Isles. In the 14th century rice was being imported from Italy.
dv said:
roughbarked said:
dv said:
Actually I apologise for my “No” regarding rice: apparently it was known in 14th century England but was something of a luxury item.But not pasta…
There are quite a few grasses known as wild rice.
There are but they don’t grow in, or near, the British Isles. In the 14th century rice was being imported from Italy.
The name, rice. How old is that?
roughbarked said:
dv said:
roughbarked said:There are quite a few grasses known as wild rice.
There are but they don’t grow in, or near, the British Isles. In the 14th century rice was being imported from Italy.
The name, rice. How old is that?
Etymology
First used in English in the middle of the 13th century, the word “rice” derives from the Old French ris, which comes from Italian riso, in turn from the Latin oriza, which derives from the Greek ὄρυζα (oruza). The Greek word is the source of all European words (cf. Welsh reis, German Reis, Lithuanian ryžiai, Serbo-Croatian riža, Polish ryż, Dutch rijst, Hungarian rizs, Romanian orez).
The origin of the Greek word is unclear. It is sometimes held to be from the Tamil word அரிசி (arisi), or rather Old Tamil arici. However, Krishnamurti disagrees with the notion that Old Tamil arici is the source of the Greek term, and proposes that it was borrowed from descendants of Proto-Dravidian *wariñci instead. Mayrhofer suggests that the immediate source of the Greek word is to be sought in Old Iranian words of the types *vrīz- or *vrinj-, but these are ultimately traced back to Indo-Aryan (as in Sanskrit vrīhí-) and subsequently to Dravidian by Witzel and others.
However, the word is the same as the word for food, in China.
url please.
ChrispenEvan said:
url please.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice#Etymology
Though I added the bit about China.
thought so.
ChrispenEvan said:
thought so.
It is OK you can read about that, here encyclopedia/ science/ rice-history-rice-cultivation.html
The English word rice dates to the mid 13th century. Its immediate source was French.
dv said:
The English word rice dates to the mid 13th century. Its immediate source was French.
Yeah. That’s what wiki said.
Blackadder: To you, it’s a potato. To me, it’s a potato. But to Sir Walter bloody Raleigh, it’s fine carriages, luxury estates and as many girls as his tongue can cope with! He’s making a fortune out of the things: people are smoking them, building houses out of them… they’ll be eating them next!
Baldrick: Stranger things have happened, my lord.
Blackadder: Oh, exactly.
Baldrick: That horse becoming Pope…
Blackadder: What?
For the life of me I can’t understand people who go over to shoot elephants and rhinos for fun.
Ian said:
Blackadder: To you, it’s a potato. To me, it’s a potato. But to Sir Walter bloody Raleigh, it’s fine carriages, luxury estates and as many girls as his tongue can cope with! He’s making a fortune out of the things: people are smoking them, building houses out of them… they’ll be eating them next!Baldrick: Stranger things have happened, my lord.
Blackadder: Oh, exactly.
Baldrick: That horse becoming Pope…
Blackadder: What?
Tony Robinson, wish he’d stuck to comedy.
dv said:
For the life of me I can’t understand people who go over to shoot elephants and rhinos for fun.
They probably don’t either.. more money than sense seems appropriate.
dv said:
For the life of me I can’t understand people who go over to shoot elephants and rhinos for fun.
+1
dv said:
For the life of me I can’t understand people who go over to shoot elephants and rhinos for fun.
I can, but I disagree strongly with it.
dv said:
Actually I apologise for my “No” regarding rice: apparently it was known in 14th century England but was something of a luxury item.But not pasta…
Arts already apologised for her own post. In her next post …
oh sorry you said vegetable carry on
Not sure why Arts didn’t point this out earlier, but … ;)
Speedy said:
dv said:
Actually I apologise for my “No” regarding rice: apparently it was known in 14th century England but was something of a luxury item.But not pasta…
Arts already apologised for her own post. In her next post …
oh sorry you said vegetable carry on
Not sure why Arts didn’t point this out earlier, but … ;)
roughbarked said:
She was showing her patience and wisdom. Note; the rest of us left it alone as well.
Mmmmhmmm :)
Turnips jumped quickly but as the thread evolved they fell further and further behind.
I think turnips are the best bet but it’s just been badly ridden.
Peak Warming Man said:
Turnips jumped quickly but as the thread evolved they fell further and further behind.
I think turnips are the best bet but it’s just been badly ridden.
I think you are right, at least for one of the vegetables that will store over winter, otherwise you starve. Root vegetables like parsnips, carrots, etc., and onions, beetroot and even beans would be others. Kohlrabi might be another if introduced earlier. Then you would have those that could be pickled or salted, so along with grains and various meats, they would do quite well.
PermeateFree said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Turnips jumped quickly but as the thread evolved they fell further and further behind.
I think turnips are the best bet but it’s just been badly ridden.
I think you are right, at least for one of the vegetables that will store over winter, otherwise you starve. Root vegetables like parsnips, carrots, etc., and onions, beetroot and even beans would be others. Kohlrabi might be another if introduced earlier. Then you would have those that could be pickled or salted, so along with grains and various meats, they would do quite well.
The best way to store all fruit or vegetables is to convert them into alcohol.
bob(from black rock) said:
PermeateFree said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Turnips jumped quickly but as the thread evolved they fell further and further behind.
I think turnips are the best bet but it’s just been badly ridden.
I think you are right, at least for one of the vegetables that will store over winter, otherwise you starve. Root vegetables like parsnips, carrots, etc., and onions, beetroot and even beans would be others. Kohlrabi might be another if introduced earlier. Then you would have those that could be pickled or salted, so along with grains and various meats, they would do quite well.
The best way to store all fruit or vegetables is to convert them into alcohol.
I would think apples would be well stored in that form.