Reading another blog site where he did a test to see what personality types read his blog. I suspect that the results for that site would be quite similar here. So I’d like to do the experiment. Can you please do the following survey, takes about 10 minutes, and post your result here.

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

I’m an INTP.

ISTJ from memory

INTJ

INTJ
31 is a doozy.

ISFJ

Briggs Myers.

Credibility?

Is there a personality type that holds with the view that they Myer-Briggs Personality Type testing is a load of meaningless bullshit? Because I would be that type.

Rule 303 said:

Is there a personality type that holds with the view that they Myer-Briggs Personality Type testing is a load of meaningless bullshit? Because I would be that type.

Yes

For what it’s worth.
INTJ

Too much bollocks involved for me to care.

INTJ

whose hopes and dreams were smashed

it’s why I became evil

INTJ

sibeen said:

Reading another blog site where he did a test to see what personality types read his blog. I suspect that the results for that site would be quite similar here. So I’d like to do the experiment. Can you please do the following survey, takes about 10 minutes, and post your result here.

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

I’m an INTP.

And while you’re about it please post your astrological star sign, your Chinese zodiac sign, and your numerological digital number. Because they all have as much validity as the Myers-Briggs bullshit.

I stake my life and fortune on this test

lights pipe

btm said:

sibeen said:

Reading another blog site where he did a test to see what personality types read his blog. I suspect that the results for that site would be quite similar here. So I’d like to do the experiment. Can you please do the following survey, takes about 10 minutes, and post your result here.

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

I’m an INTP.

And while you’re about it please post your astrological star sign, your Chinese zodiac sign, and your numerological digital number. Because they all have as much validity as the Myers-Briggs bullshit.

shrug

I’m in no way suggesting that the MB has any great validity, but looking at the results from the other blog there was certainly a skewed number of types who read that site and I suspect that those same types will be represented highly on this site. I’m just checking up on that, nothing more.

How are you going to correlate the results?
I’ve done this exact test before. Couldn’t remember the result so did it again:

INTJ

Introvert(67%) iNtuitive(38%) Thinking(1%) Judging(56%)

• You have distinct preference of Introversion over Extraversion (67%)
• You have moderate preference of Intuition over Sensing (38%)
• You have marginal or no preference of Thinking over Feeling (1%)
• You have moderate preference of Judging over Perceiving (56%)

Aquila said:

How are you going to correlate the results?

I’ll do a count. As there probably won’t be that many responses I’ll probably be able to perform this without much difficulty :)

sibeen said:

So I’d like to do the experiment. Can you please do the following survey, takes about 10 minutes, and post your result here.

You are not the boss of me.

ISTJ
Introvert(67%) Sensing(1%) Thinking(38%) Judging(44%)

sibeen said:

Aquila said:

How are you going to correlate the results?

I’ll do a count. As there probably won’t be that many responses I’ll probably be able to perform this without much difficulty :)

LOL@ perform without much difficulty

Give it some time, coupla days maybe so more folk see the thread?

I look forward to seeing a colour pie chart or bar chart…at least

:D

We Capricorns don’t believe in astronomy.

Introvert(78%) iNtuitive(62%) Thinking(6%) Judging(11%)

OCDC said:

We Capricorns don’t believe in astronomy.

LOL
Did you mean astrology?

Aquila said:

OCDC said:

We Capricorns don’t believe in astronomy.

LOL
Did you mean astrology?

Lulz

Right then, if we are going the star signs route…I’m a homebody Cancerian.

Rule 303 said:

Is there a personality type that holds with the view that they Myer-Briggs Personality Type testing is a load of meaningless bullshit? Because I would be that type.

Me too. And you can see the repeated questions rather easily. I wonder if I should go through it again and give real answers. Or random ones.

buffy said:

Right then, if we are going the star signs route…I’m a homebody Cancerian.

No, we are not doing bloody star signs!

:)

Why not? I’m a typical Cancer!!

;)

buffy said:

Right then, if we are going the star signs route…I’m a homebody Cancerian.

Me too…I also like to go on little adventures, and walks along the beach.

P

And I believe my Chinese animal is the cock. Make of that what you will.

And if you fill it in as an 85+ male and tick yes, then no, alternating all the way down:

ESTJ
Extravert(33%) Sensing(12%) Thinking(25%) Judging(11%)

So why didn’t the repeat questions fling up that I was just putting in a pattern? Isn’t that what they are there for, so this sort of thing is recognized as not a real response?

I was born in the year of the Pig. Mr buffy was born in the year of the Snake.

My Mum is Horse, Dad is Monkey.

Mr buffy’s Mum was Horse, Dad Rooster (fitting for a military man of rank)

Is being dumb part of peoples personality?

OCDC said:

And I believe my Chinese animal is the cock. Make of that what you will.

That’s what she said

I swap between ENTJ and INTJ depending on my mood.

sibeen said:

Reading another blog site where he did a test to see what personality types read his blog. I suspect that the results for that site would be quite similar here. So I’d like to do the experiment. Can you please do the following survey, takes about 10 minutes, and post your result here.

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

I’m an INTP.

+1

Witty Rejoinder said:

I swap between ENTJ and INTJ depending on my mood.

Buuger your mood, we don’t do bloody extroverts on this site.

I’ll put you down as INJT.

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I swap between ENTJ and INTJ depending on my mood.

Buuger your mood, we don’t do bloody extroverts on this site.

I’ll put you down as INJT.

What are you going to put Peat down as.
Actually you could just put Peat down and leave it at that.

Peak Warming Man said:

sibeen said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I swap between ENTJ and INTJ depending on my mood.

Buuger your mood, we don’t do bloody extroverts on this site.

I’ll put you down as INJT.

What are you going to put Peat down as.
Actually you could just put Peat down and leave it at that.

why are people so unkind?

ChrispenEvan said:

why are people so unkind?

Because the vast majority on this site are introverts who just love to stick the knife in.

sibeen said:

Because the vast majority on this site are introverts who just love to stick the knife in.

Not me – I’m an extrovert who loves to stick the knife in.

I reckon 84 percent of the population are stupid

I reckon 50 percent of the population are below average

CrazyNeutrino said:

I reckon 84 percent of the population are stupid

I can back up my claim with figures

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I reckon 84 percent of the population are stupid

I can back up my claim with figures

So you’re confident that you would have a higher IQ than 84% of the population?

Witty Rejoinder said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I reckon 84 percent of the population are stupid

I can back up my claim with figures

So you’re confident that you would have a higher IQ than 84% of the population?

runs away

Guy at a bar sits down next to a hot looking “Chick”, they chat for awhile and the guy says “You are a Taurus”, she says “no” , “OK , so your a Leo?” the “Chick” says “no”, bit more chit-chat,and he says, “OK your a “Scorpio?”, she says “No”, he says OK I give up what are you? And she says a Lesbian”.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I can back up my claim with figures

So you’re confident that you would have a higher IQ than 84% of the population?

runs away

runs back

being intelligent involves observation

bob(from black rock) said:

Guy at a bar sits down next to a hot looking “Chick”, they chat for awhile and the guy says “You are a Taurus”, she says “no” , “OK , so your a Leo?” the “Chick” says “no”, bit more chit-chat,and he says, “OK your a “Scorpio?”, she says “No”, he says OK I give up what are you? And she says a Lesbian”.

good trick to put someone off

CrazyNeutrino said:

being intelligent involves observation

Good observation would suggest that some extremely intelligent people are also religious – believe in God etc.

Witty Rejoinder said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

being intelligent involves observation

Good observation would suggest that some extremely intelligent people are also religious – believe in God etc.

And further good observation will indicate that religions are mental diseases

Witty Rejoinder said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

being intelligent involves observation

Good observation would suggest that some extremely intelligent people are also religious – believe in God etc.

One of the most intelligent people I know (went to school with him) found religion in his early twenties. I still fail to understand how he can reconcile it with his level of scientific knowledge.

> Can you please do the following survey

No, that particular survey is a recruitment for a certain nasty religious cult.

Anyway, at one time in my life (see recent thread “Dreams in Which You’re Not There” for details) I changed from one octant of the Myers Briggs to the exact opposite octant, I’ve settled partly back towards the original octant, but not all the way back, since then.

Thinking that someone is stupid because they are religious is a pretty stupid thing to do.

mollwollfumble said:

No, that particular survey is a recruitment for a certain nasty religious cult.

Say what?

AwesomeO said:

Thinking that someone is stupid because they are religious is a pretty stupid thing to do.

I for one didn’t say that! I just claim that all religions are mental diseases, AND they are all fatal!

bob(from black rock) said:

AwesomeO said:

Thinking that someone is stupid because they are religious is a pretty stupid thing to do.

I for one didn’t say that! I just claim that all religions are mental diseases, AND they are all fatal!

Atheists seem to die quite as often as religious people.

bob(from black rock) said:

AwesomeO said:

Thinking that someone is stupid because they are religious is a pretty stupid thing to do.

I for one didn’t say that! I just claim that all religions are mental diseases, AND they are all fatal!

I don’t know it if fills the definition of a disease but I think there is probably a case for a god spot in the brain that is more pronounced in some people and I think, without any evidence at all, it is related to a sense of inquiry and wonder that has driven the hominid toward intelligence.

Rule 303 said:

Is there a personality type that holds with the view that they Myer-Briggs Personality Type testing is a load of meaningless bullshit? Because I would be that type.

Yes, but I’m also a compulsive survey taker:

INTJ

Introvert(28%) iNtuitive(100%) Thinking(1%) Judging(1%)

My real answer to almost all the questions would be:

That’s not a yes/no question.

sibeen said:

bob(from black rock) said:

AwesomeO said:

Thinking that someone is stupid because they are religious is a pretty stupid thing to do.

I for one didn’t say that! I just claim that all religions are mental diseases, AND they are all fatal!

Atheists seem to die quite as often as religious people.

Yeah! frequently killed by religious freaks!

ENTP
Extravert(22%) iNtuitive(75%) Thinking(12%) Perceiving(11%)

Interesting result. I see myself as shy, somewhat introvert and not particularly intuitive.

I agree with the Rev’s assessment: most of the questions do not simply have yes-no answers.

INFP

I kept falling asleep during the test. I may have hit random buttons as I fell asleep. The full results are on my ereader.

I’m also Aquarius/Pisces depending on which side of the earth I am and if the wind is blowing through the peach trees blossoms as the nightjars call.

E(78%)N(50%)T(12%)J(56%)

kii said:

INFP

I kept falling asleep during the test. I may have hit random buttons as I fell asleep. The full results are on my ereader.

I’m also Aquarius/Pisces depending on which side of the earth I am and if the wind is blowing through the peach trees blossoms as the nightjars call.

you are born on a cusp?

roughbarked said:

kii said:

INFP

I kept falling asleep during the test. I may have hit random buttons as I fell asleep. The full results are on my ereader.

I’m also Aquarius/Pisces depending on which side of the earth I am and if the wind is blowing through the peach trees blossoms as the nightjars call.

you are born on a cusp?

No…I’m more than one person :P
































(yes, I was born on the cusp of those signs)

So what’s the results other than we’re all I*T*

On the site I referred to in the OP the vast majority of readers of the blog were INTx. 45 % of INTJ & 23% of INTP. So close to 70% of the people who responded to the survey came from those two groups which combined should make up around 7 or 8% of the population. I surmised that the result wouldn’t be far off for contributors to this site.

pfffft

you lot are weirdos

Suppose I’d better do this & then walk Dolly.

INFP

Bubblecar said:

INFP

So what do these letters indicate?

kii said:

I’m also Aquarius/Pisces depending on which side of the earth I am

It doesn’t work like that.
Your star sign is determined by your place/time of birth.

Most people who think they are cuspers (born on the cusp of two signs) are not actually cuspers.

I can tell you for sure, if you can tell me what day of the month you were born.
However, if you were born on February 20, I’d need your “time” of birth, plus the year and city…

I’m a snake by Chinese astrology. I’m all bull otherwise.

From the looks of it, most who did the test are introverts.

I was going to say that Boris wasn’t all that judgemental considering he got only 11% on that score but mine was 1%

roughbarked said:

I’m a snake by Chinese astrology. I’m all bull otherwise.

Another one of your snake and bull stories :)

that 11 is actually 61.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

I’m a snake by Chinese astrology. I’m all bull otherwise.

Another one of your snake and bull stories :)

:)

ChrispenEvan said:

that 11 is actually 61.

ah. That makes nore sense.

I’d be interested in how many over the top extroverts are actually quite insecure and use the never shutting the fuck up as way of stroking their fragile ego. Personally I’d not follow a self imposed self important leader as they’d just give me the shits

Aquila said:

kii said:

I’m also Aquarius/Pisces depending on which side of the earth I am

It doesn’t work like that.
Your star sign is determined by your place/time of birth.

Most people who think they are cuspers (born on the cusp of two signs) are not actually cuspers.

I can tell you for sure, if you can tell me what day of the month you were born.
However, if you were born on February 20, I’d need your “time” of birth, plus the year and city…

I believe personality types based on astrology has a basis in fact. External factors during pregnancy and the post-birth period can effect personality traits of the person.

For example, someone born at the start of winter in Europe could spend the first few months of their lives indoors, while another born 3 months later could spend them outdoors in nature. There is also the abundance and type of food available to the pregnant mother and newborn.

However, trying to pin these potential traits on people on a global basis is just not going to work.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

However, trying to pin these potential traits on people on a global basis is just not going to work.

Hemispheres are different, for a start.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Aquila said:

kii said:

I’m also Aquarius/Pisces depending on which side of the earth I am

It doesn’t work like that.
Your star sign is determined by your place/time of birth.

Most people who think they are cuspers (born on the cusp of two signs) are not actually cuspers.

I can tell you for sure, if you can tell me what day of the month you were born.
However, if you were born on February 20, I’d need your “time” of birth, plus the year and city…

I believe personality types based on astrology has a basis in fact. External factors during pregnancy and the post-birth period can effect personality traits of the person.

For example, someone born at the start of winter in Europe could spend the first few months of their lives indoors, while another born 3 months later could spend them outdoors in nature. There is also the abundance and type of food available to the pregnant mother and newborn.

However, trying to pin these potential traits on people on a global basis is just not going to work.

In your scenario they would also be different “star signs” because they were born 3 months apart.
Most people don’t understand astrology and only know about the “star signs” listed in the daily paper etc.

Delineation of an individuals birth chart or natal chart is much more complex, the “star sign” is represented by which zodiac constellation the “Sun” is transiting during your time of birth, but there is the placement of all the other planets and the Moon in a persons chart, then there is the ascendant which is the zodiac constellation rising on the eastern horizon at your time/place of birth (this changes approx. every 2 hours) which sets up the “houses” of the birth chart, that’s why two people born on the same day and even on the same day & year will exhibit different personality traits which are unique to them, there is also some influence from family structure/culture…we also evolve and change as we grow and experience life, but proper astrology considers the persons entire chart, not just the Sun sign (star sign).
It’s actually way more complex than what I’ve described here.

)

still meaningless though aquilla no matter how “complex’ it is made.

Aquila said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Aquila said:

It doesn’t work like that.
Your star sign is determined by your place/time of birth.

Most people who think they are cuspers (born on the cusp of two signs) are not actually cuspers.

I can tell you for sure, if you can tell me what day of the month you were born.
However, if you were born on February 20, I’d need your “time” of birth, plus the year and city…

I believe personality types based on astrology has a basis in fact. External factors during pregnancy and the post-birth period can effect personality traits of the person.

For example, someone born at the start of winter in Europe could spend the first few months of their lives indoors, while another born 3 months later could spend them outdoors in nature. There is also the abundance and type of food available to the pregnant mother and newborn.

However, trying to pin these potential traits on people on a global basis is just not going to work.

In your scenario they would also be different “star signs” because they were born 3 months apart.
Most people don’t understand astrology and only know about the “star signs” listed in the daily paper etc.

Delineation of an individuals birth chart or natal chart is much more complex, the “star sign” is represented by which zodiac constellation the “Sun” is transiting during your time of birth, but there is the placement of all the other planets and the Moon in a persons chart, then there is the ascendant which is the zodiac constellation rising on the eastern horizon at your time/place of birth (this changes approx. every 2 hours) which sets up the “houses” of the birth chart, that’s why two people born on the same day and even on the same day & year will exhibit different personality traits which are unique to them, there is also some influence from family structure/culture…we also evolve and change as we grow and experience life, but proper astrology considers the persons entire chart, not just the Sun sign (star sign).
It’s actually way more complex than what I’ve described here.

)

I remember reading a “scientific explanation” that planetary alignment reinforces magnetic fields and this affects brain development

I think some people can fall into both categories, meaning, they can appear to express either one of both traits, or a combination of both, at different times.
~~~

This is a brief explanation of Extrovert/Introvert
http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/extraversion-or-introversion.htm

Extraversion (E)
I like getting my energy from active involvement in events and having a lot of different activities. I’m excited when I’m around people and I like to energize other people. I like moving into action and making things happen. I generally feel at home in the world. I often understand a problem better when I can talk out loud about it and hear what others have to say.

The following statements generally apply to me:

• I am seen as “outgoing” or as a “people person.”
• I feel comfortable in groups and like working in them.
• I have a wide range of friends and know lots of people.
• I sometimes jump too quickly into an activity and don’t allow enough time to think it over.
• Before I start a project, I sometimes forget to stop and get clear on what I want to do and why.

Introversion (I)
I like getting my energy from dealing with the ideas, pictures, memories, and reactions that are inside my head, in my inner world. I often prefer doing things alone or with one or two people I feel comfortable with. I take time to reflect so that I have a clear idea of what I’ll be doing when I decide to act. Ideas are almost solid things for me. Sometimes I like the idea of something better than the real thing.

The following statements generally apply to me:

• I am seen as “reflective” or “reserved.”
• I feel comfortable being alone and like things I can do on my own.
• I prefer to know just a few people well.
• I sometimes spend too much time reflecting and don’t move into action quickly enough.
• I sometimes forget to check with the outside world to see if my ideas really fit the experience.

Aquila said:

kii said:

I’m also Aquarius/Pisces depending on which side of the earth I am

It doesn’t work like that.
Your star sign is determined by your place/time of birth.

Most people who think they are cuspers (born on the cusp of two signs) are not actually cuspers.

I can tell you for sure, if you can tell me what day of the month you were born.
However, if you were born on February 20, I’d need your “time” of birth, plus the year and city…

The what?

I don’t believe this shite…it’s a game i play when people carry on about star signs :P

ChrispenEvan said:

still meaningless though aquilla no matter how “complex’ it is made.

:)
It depends on ones interests, perspective and understanding.

I could say the same thing about the complex formulas involved with quantum mechanics
(I’m interested in physics & other hard sciences, btw)

Our ex-boss was extremely extroverted and was always on, it was interesting to note that this actually annoyed everyone in the office as he had to dominate the room and was either unaware or didn’t care how much it gave people the shits. We quietly got on with our work and did a good job, he had to tell everyone just how fantastic he was

kii said:

Aquila said:

kii said:

I’m also Aquarius/Pisces depending on which side of the earth I am

It doesn’t work like that.
Your star sign is determined by your place/time of birth.

Most people who think they are cuspers (born on the cusp of two signs) are not actually cuspers.

I can tell you for sure, if you can tell me what day of the month you were born.
However, if you were born on February 20, I’d need your “time” of birth, plus the year and city…

The what?

I don’t believe this shite…it’s a game i play when people carry on about star signs :P

LOL
I can’t help you then.

)

Cymek said:

Our ex-boss was extremely extroverted and was always on, it was interesting to note that this actually annoyed everyone in the office as he had to dominate the room and was either unaware or didn’t care how much it gave people the shits. We quietly got on with our work and did a good job, he had to tell everyone just how fantastic he was

there is a difference between being an extrovert and being an arse

Cymek said:

Our ex-boss was extremely extroverted and was always on, it was interesting to note that this actually annoyed everyone in the office as he had to dominate the room and was either unaware or didn’t care how much it gave people the shits. We quietly got on with our work and did a good job, he had to tell everyone just how fantastic he was

You plebs are paid to make ‘im look good…

diddly-squat said:

Cymek said:

Our ex-boss was extremely extroverted and was always on, it was interesting to note that this actually annoyed everyone in the office as he had to dominate the room and was either unaware or didn’t care how much it gave people the shits. We quietly got on with our work and did a good job, he had to tell everyone just how fantastic he was

there is a difference between being an extrovert and being an arse

+1

diddly-squat said:

Cymek said:

Our ex-boss was extremely extroverted and was always on, it was interesting to note that this actually annoyed everyone in the office as he had to dominate the room and was either unaware or didn’t care how much it gave people the shits. We quietly got on with our work and did a good job, he had to tell everyone just how fantastic he was

there is a difference between being an extrovert and being an arse

Yes but extroverts are much easier to detect as being an arse

Aquila said:

In your scenario they would also be different “star signs” because they were born 3 months apart.

Yes. That is my point – born in different seasons so tend to gather toward a certain point on the personality chart. The Euro-centric concept of astrology does not work globally. And all the other fancy enhancements are just attempts at fine-tuning it to make it more accurate when it is just probabilities.

Cymek said:

diddly-squat said:

Cymek said:

Our ex-boss was extremely extroverted and was always on, it was interesting to note that this actually annoyed everyone in the office as he had to dominate the room and was either unaware or didn’t care how much it gave people the shits. We quietly got on with our work and did a good job, he had to tell everyone just how fantastic he was

there is a difference between being an extrovert and being an arse

Yes but extroverts are much easier to detect as being an arse

I was always warned to watch the quiet ones.

Cymek said:

Our ex-boss was extremely extroverted and was always on, it was interesting to note that this actually annoyed everyone in the office as he had to dominate the room and was either unaware or didn’t care how much it gave people the shits. We quietly got on with our work and did a good job, he had to tell everyone just how fantastic he was

Sounds like the community relations manager at work..wants applause for doing her job. Gee, she pisses me off.

Aquila said:

kii said:

Aquila said:

It doesn’t work like that.
Your star sign is determined by your place/time of birth.

Most people who think they are cuspers (born on the cusp of two signs) are not actually cuspers.

I can tell you for sure, if you can tell me what day of the month you were born.
However, if you were born on February 20, I’d need your “time” of birth, plus the year and city…

The what?

I don’t believe this shite…it’s a game i play when people carry on about star signs :P

LOL
I can’t help you then.

)

She doesn’t want help, she just wants to be heard.

My favourite reply to people who ask about star signs comes from Ricard Dawkins’ book.

“My wife, Lalla Ward, recalls an occasion when a more than usually brainless hanger-on approached the director of the film they were working on with a “Gee, Mr Preminger, what sign are you?” and received the immortal rebuff, “I am a do-not-disturb sign.”

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

diddly-squat said:

there is a difference between being an extrovert and being an arse

Yes but extroverts are much easier to detect as being an arse

I was always warned to watch the quiet ones.

I imagine most serial killers are quiet introverts

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Yes but extroverts are much easier to detect as being an arse

I was always warned to watch the quiet ones.

I imagine most serial killers are quiet introverts

Val McDermid portrays them more as exhibitionists. They seem to want people to see what they have done. They seem to get off on how clever they are.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

She doesn’t want help, she just wants to be heard.

Sad little man….you have no idea what I want or who I am.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Aquila said:

In your scenario they would also be different “star signs” because they were born 3 months apart.

Yes. That is my point – born in different seasons so tend to gather toward a certain point on the personality chart. The Euro-centric concept of astrology does not work globally. And all the other fancy enhancements are just attempts at fine-tuning it to make it more accurate when it is just probabilities.

I don’t think there is such a thing as ‘Euro-centric concept of astrology’

I’d need more detail about your thoughts because I can’t see how you are tying in astrology with… “other things” (seasons, hemispheres etc) …or not, or whether you’re taking the piss.

LOL

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Yes but extroverts are much easier to detect as being an arse

I was always warned to watch the quiet ones.

I imagine most serial killers are quiet introverts

extroverts are more likely to involve themselves in antisocial behaviour

I think that people like to believe in things like astrology for many of the same reasons people like to believe in other forms of spiritualism – that is, it helps them to form meaning around otherwise meaningless things in their lives, or things in their lives that they are scared about. Shifting the context of blame onto someone or something else helps them to feel better about themselves.

As it stands I really have no problem with this at all – if people want to try and absolve themselves of responsibility about the decisions they make in their lives or feelings of guilt around things that they have no control over, then so be it.

It really only becomes a problem when they use this as context to hurt, or remove the freedoms, of another individual.

diddly-squat said:

I think that people like to believe in things like astrology for many of the same reasons people like to believe in other forms of spiritualism – that is, it helps them to form meaning around otherwise meaningless things in their lives, or things in their lives that they are scared about. Shifting the context of blame onto someone or something else helps them to feel better about themselves.

As it stands I really have no problem with this at all – if people want to try and absolve themselves of responsibility about the decisions they make in their lives or feelings of guilt around things that they have no control over, then so be it.

It really only becomes a problem when they use this as context to hurt, or remove the freedoms, of another individual.

I don’t believe in astrology.. I’m a Sagittarius and we are naturally suspicious about that stuff…

Aquila said:

I don’t think there is such a thing as ‘Euro-centric concept of astrology’

LOL

Where did our modern western astrology originate from?

I wonder how well psychological tests match with astrology traits

Arts said:

diddly-squat said:

I think that people like to believe in things like astrology for many of the same reasons people like to believe in other forms of spiritualism – that is, it helps them to form meaning around otherwise meaningless things in their lives, or things in their lives that they are scared about. Shifting the context of blame onto someone or something else helps them to feel better about themselves.

As it stands I really have no problem with this at all – if people want to try and absolve themselves of responsibility about the decisions they make in their lives or feelings of guilt around things that they have no control over, then so be it.

It really only becomes a problem when they use this as context to hurt, or remove the freedoms, of another individual.

I don’t believe in astrology…I’m a Sagittarius and we are naturally suspicious about that stuff…

Fixed.

By a Virgo.

Cymek said:

I wonder how well psychological tests match with astrology traits

as well, or and poorly, as you want them too I imagine…

I could say the same thing about the complex formulas involved with quantum mechanics

and you’d be wrong to compare the two. quantum mechanics is one of the most accurate predictive tools we have. to compare it with the ‘complexity” of astrology makes you claim to be interested in scince etc hollow.

diddly-squat said:

I think that people like to believe in things like astrology for many of the same reasons people like to believe in other forms of spiritualism – that is, it helps them to form meaning around otherwise meaningless things in their lives, or things in their lives that they are scared about. Shifting the context of blame onto someone or something else helps them to feel better about themselves.

As it stands I really have no problem with this at all – if people want to try and absolve themselves of responsibility about the decisions they make in their lives or feelings of guilt around things that they have no control over, then so be it.

It really only becomes a problem when they use this as context to hurt, or remove the freedoms, of another individual.

Hmm, well, it depends who you discuss these subjects with as to how they are absorbed or experienced in life.

From my perspective, astrology is not about blame, absolving responsibilities or being fearful of life.
This is more the domain of religion.

Astrology is simply a tool to use to help understand not only your personality but others personality, why they behave in particular ways and how they express themselves etc.

There is some science (and maths) involved with astrology .
We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.
Astrology suggests (in basic terms) that these natural forces / energies can effect humans in various ways also.

Nuture would have more effect on personality than anything, baring some brain disorder

I watched a doco last night called “Kumare” – it’s about a guy (Vikram Gandhi) that paints himself as a spiritual Guru. He then proceeds to develop a self styled philosophy and begins teaching and finally he gathers a group of devoted followers around him.

At the end he outs himself – the reactions of some of the individuals is interesting to say the least.

Aquila said:

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.
Astrology suggests (in basic terms) that these natural forces / energies can effect humans in various ways also.

I use moon charts in my gardening but I doubt that Mars can raise my blood pressure.

Aquila said:

diddly-squat said:

I think that people like to believe in things like astrology for many of the same reasons people like to believe in other forms of spiritualism – that is, it helps them to form meaning around otherwise meaningless things in their lives, or things in their lives that they are scared about. Shifting the context of blame onto someone or something else helps them to feel better about themselves.

As it stands I really have no problem with this at all – if people want to try and absolve themselves of responsibility about the decisions they make in their lives or feelings of guilt around things that they have no control over, then so be it.

It really only becomes a problem when they use this as context to hurt, or remove the freedoms, of another individual.

Hmm, well, it depends who you discuss these subjects with as to how they are absorbed or experienced in life.

From my perspective, astrology is not about blame, absolving responsibilities or being fearful of life.
This is more the domain of religion.

Astrology is simply a tool to use to help understand not only your personality but others personality, why they behave in particular ways and how they express themselves etc.

There is some science (and maths) involved with astrology .
We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.
Astrology suggests (in basic terms) that these natural forces / energies can effect humans in various ways also.

blame isn’t the right word… “reason” is probably a better fit

diddly-squat said:

I watched a doco last night called “Kumare” – it’s about a guy (Vikram Gandhi) that paints himself as a spiritual Guru. He then proceeds to develop a self styled philosophy and begins teaching and finally he gathers a group of devoted followers around him.

At the end he outs himself – the reactions of some of the individuals is interesting to say the least.

Yes I enjoyed watching that whole process as well. It was a rather clever bit of direction/misdirection.

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.

that is the tidal effect and over the <2m of a human body is probably immeasurable. how do gravity and magnetism affect the human psyche?

ChrispenEvan said:

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.

that is the tidal effect and over the <2m of a human body is probably immeasurable. how do gravity and magnetism affect the human psyche?

Some people believe that their psyche is their magnetism?

You have moderate preference of Introversion over Extraversion You have marginal or no preference of Sensing over Intuition You have slight preference of Thinking over Feeling You have marginal or no preference of Judging over Perceiving

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

I watched a doco last night called “Kumare” – it’s about a guy (Vikram Gandhi) that paints himself as a spiritual Guru. He then proceeds to develop a self styled philosophy and begins teaching and finally he gathers a group of devoted followers around him.

At the end he outs himself – the reactions of some of the individuals is interesting to say the least.

Yes I enjoyed watching that whole process as well. It was a rather clever bit of direction/misdirection.

Like most individuals that end up in some form of spiritual following, they felt alone and misunderstood.

Don’t underestimate the power of feeling part of a community – even wacko cults can positive affects on people’s lives.

Note: disclaimer apples when personal freedoms are impinged

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Where did our modern western astrology originate from?

i’ve used the western placidus system, it can be used globally, it’s not Euro-centric.

ChrispenEvan said:

I could say the same thing about the complex formulas involved with quantum mechanics

and you’d be wrong to compare the two. quantum mechanics is one of the most accurate predictive tools we have. to compare it with the ‘complexity” of astrology makes you claim to be interested in scince etc hollow.

To say my claim to be interested in science, is hollow….LOL..that’s because you are coming from a limited view point.
I wasn’t making a direct comparison between astrology and quantum mechanics, I simply stated that, the complex formulas of quantum mechanics could be as meaningless to me (or anyone), as the formulas involved with astrology are meaningless to a physicist (or anyone).

I’ve studied both and have an interest in both (physics / science & astrology)

when you show me some scince that backs astrology then maybe i’ll think different. so far i have never seen any presented anywhere.

i have been doing that a lot lately, leaving one e from science.

ChrispenEvan said:

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.

that is the tidal effect and over the <2m of a human body is probably immeasurable. how do gravity and magnetism affect the human psyche?

There are many things about life and the Universe that cannot be explained in pure hard scientific terms at this point of our human understanding.

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.

that is the tidal effect and over the <2m of a human body is probably immeasurable. how do gravity and magnetism affect the human psyche?

There are many things about life and the Universe that cannot be explained in pure hard scientific terms at this point of our human understanding.

Yes but its doesn’t necessarily mean they are real

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.

that is the tidal effect and over the <2m of a human body is probably immeasurable. how do gravity and magnetism affect the human psyche?

There are many things about life and the Universe that cannot be explained in pure hard scientific terms at this point of our human understanding.

Absolutely.

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.

that is the tidal effect and over the <2m of a human body is probably immeasurable. how do gravity and magnetism affect the human psyche?

There are many things about life and the Universe that cannot be explained in pure hard scientific terms at this point of our human understanding.

so.. that does not excuse quackery

surely someone, somewhere has done so studies into how it is supposed to work? otherwise that answer is a cop out and one i was expecting btw.

Cymek said:

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.

that is the tidal effect and over the <2m of a human body is probably immeasurable. how do gravity and magnetism affect the human psyche?

There are many things about life and the Universe that cannot be explained in pure hard scientific terms at this point of our human understanding.

Yes but its doesn’t necessarily mean they are real

Cue……. Schrödinger’s cat

some.

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/Schrodingers-cat

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.

that is the tidal effect and over the <2m of a human body is probably immeasurable. how do gravity and magnetism affect the human psyche?

There are many things about life and the Universe that cannot be explained in pure hard scientific terms at this point of our human understanding.

Hm that’s a good point, let me think for a bit
Oh wait, my mistake, it’s absolute bullshit.
Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.

diddly-squat said:

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.

that is the tidal effect and over the <2m of a human body is probably immeasurable. how do gravity and magnetism affect the human psyche?

There are many things about life and the Universe that cannot be explained in pure hard scientific terms at this point of our human understanding.

Hm that’s a good point, let me think for a bit
Oh wait, my mistake, it’s absolute bullshit.
Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.

Thanks Star :)

ChrispenEvan said:

surely someone, somewhere has done so studies into how it is supposed to work? otherwise that answer is a cop out and one i was expecting btw.

There hasn’t been much scientific study of astrology, I think there should be some ongoing studies.

The closest I’ve come is reading the book:

The Toa Of Physics by Fritjof Capra (1st published 1975)

But it’s not specific to astrology, it’s more related to Eastern Mysticism

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

surely someone, somewhere has done so studies into how it is supposed to work? otherwise that answer is a cop out and one i was expecting btw.

There hasn’t been much scientific study of astrology, I think there should be some ongoing studies.

The closest I’ve come is reading the book:

The Toa Of Physics by Fritjof Capra (1st published 1975)

But it’s not specific to astrology, it’s more related to Eastern Mysticism

Oh boy…

diddly-squat said:

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

We know that the Moon can effect the ocean tides, coral spawning and other natural events, the gravitational forces and magnetic fields have an effect.

that is the tidal effect and over the <2m of a human body is probably immeasurable. how do gravity and magnetism affect the human psyche?

There are many things about life and the Universe that cannot be explained in pure hard scientific terms at this point of our human understanding.

Hm that’s a good point, let me think for a bit
Oh wait, my mistake, it’s absolute bullshit.
Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.

LOL
I do believe my comment to be true and accurate

)

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

surely someone, somewhere has done so studies into how it is supposed to work? otherwise that answer is a cop out and one i was expecting btw.

There hasn’t been much scientific study of astrology, I think there should be some ongoing studies.

The closest I’ve come is reading the book:

The Toa Of Physics by Fritjof Capra (1st published 1975)

But it’s not specific to astrology, it’s more related to Eastern Mysticism

Oh boy…

LOL
You sound a bit snobby today…open your mind, brother

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

There hasn’t been much scientific study of astrology, I think there should be some ongoing studies.

The closest I’ve come is reading the book:

The Toa Of Physics by Fritjof Capra (1st published 1975)

But it’s not specific to astrology, it’s more related to Eastern Mysticism

Oh boy…

LOL
You sound a bit snobby today…open your mind, brother

My mind is open to all sorts of things, given solid, repeatable, measurable evidence for it …

Otherwise your mind isn’t open, it’s just gullible

Isn’t astrology like religion a means to explain the universe before we scientifically researched how it all works, science is a never ending quest.

By the way Aquila, a plane flying overhead has more gravitational / magnetic effect on you than any other celestial body other than the sun and moon…

there’s “science” for you.. do the maths.

Aquila said:

diddly-squat said:

Aquila said:

There are many things about life and the Universe that cannot be explained in pure hard scientific terms at this point of our human understanding.

Hm that’s a good point, let me think for a bit
Oh wait, my mistake, it’s absolute bullshit.
Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.

LOL
I do believe my comment to be true and accurate

)

If you show me
That, say, homeopathy works,
Then I will change my mind
I’ll spin on a fucking dime
I’ll be embarrassed as hell,
But I will run through the streets yelling
It’s a miracle! Take physics and bin it!
Water has memory!
And while it’s memory of a long lost drop of onion juice is Infinite
It somehow forgets all the poo it’s had in it!

You show me that it works and how it works
And when I’ve recovered from the shock
I will take a compass and carve Fancy That on the side of my cock.”

Everyones just staring at me now,
But I’m pretty pissed and I’ve dug this far down,
So I figure, in for penny, in for a pound:

“Life is full of mystery, yeah
But there are answers out there
And they won’t be found
By people sitting around
Looking serious
And saying isn’t life mysterious?
Let’s sit here and hope
Let’s call up the fucking Pope
Let’s go watch Oprah
Interview Deepak Chopra

If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo.
That show was so cool
because every time there’s a church with a ghoul
Or a ghost in a school
They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The fucking janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide.
Throughout history
Every mystery
Ever solved has turned out to be
Not Magic.

Does the idea that there might be truth
Frighten you?
Does the idea that one afternoon
On Wiki-fucking-pedia might enlighten you
Frighten you?
Does the notion that there may not be a supernatural
So blow your hippy noodle
That you would rather just stand in the fog
Of your inability to Google?

Isn’t this enough?

Just this world?

Just this beautiful, complex
Wonderfully unfathomable, NATURAL world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?
If you’re so into Shakespeare
Lend me your ear:
“To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw perfume on the violet… is just fucking silly”
Or something like that.
Or what about Satchmo?!
I see trees of Green,
Red roses too,
And fine, if you wish to
Glorify Krishna and Vishnu
In a post-colonial, condescending
Bottled-up and labeled kind of way
Then whatever, that’s ok.
But here’s what gives me a hard-on:
I am a tiny, insignificant, ignorant lump of carbon.
I have one life, and it is short
And unimportant…
But thanks to recent scientific advances
I get to live twice as long
As my great great great great uncleses and auntses.
Twice as long to live this life of mine
Twice as long to love this wife of mine
Twice as many years of friends and wine
Of sharing curries and getting shitty
With good-looking hippies
With fairies on their spines
And butterflies on their titties.

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

Oh boy…

LOL
You sound a bit snobby today…open your mind, brother

My mind is open to all sorts of things, given solid, repeatable, measurable evidence for it …

Otherwise your mind isn’t open, it’s just gullible

Wow, that’s a very condescending thing to say to me.
You obviously don’t know me.

Life & the mysteries of the Universe are way bigger and more complex than you or I can understand.

But I get it, you don’t believe or have any interest in astrology….good for you….life goes on

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

LOL
You sound a bit snobby today…open your mind, brother

My mind is open to all sorts of things, given solid, repeatable, measurable evidence for it …

Otherwise your mind isn’t open, it’s just gullible

Wow, that’s a very condescending thing to say to me.
You obviously don’t know me.

Life & the mysteries of the Universe are way bigger and more complex than you or I can understand.

But I get it, you don’t believe or have any interest in astrology….good for you….life goes on

It’s not condescending at all.,

There needs to be a filter in order to determine what is worth considering or what is not worth considering..

Talking to people on this forum, the majority of us have chosen the scientific principle as that filter…

It’s really the only one that makes sense to most of us.. shrug …

diddly-squat said:

Aquila said:

diddly-squat said:

Hm that’s a good point, let me think for a bit
Oh wait, my mistake, it’s absolute bullshit.
Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved.

LOL
I do believe my comment to be true and accurate

)

If you show me
That, say, homeopathy works,
Then I will change my mind
I’ll spin on a fucking dime
I’ll be embarrassed as hell,
But I will run through the streets yelling
It’s a miracle! Take physics and bin it!
Water has memory!
And while it’s memory of a long lost drop of onion juice is Infinite
It somehow forgets all the poo it’s had in it!

You show me that it works and how it works
And when I’ve recovered from the shock
I will take a compass and carve Fancy That on the side of my cock.”

Everyones just staring at me now,
But I’m pretty pissed and I’ve dug this far down,
So I figure, in for penny, in for a pound:

“Life is full of mystery, yeah
But there are answers out there
And they won’t be found
By people sitting around
Looking serious
And saying isn’t life mysterious?
Let’s sit here and hope
Let’s call up the fucking Pope
Let’s go watch Oprah
Interview Deepak Chopra

If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo.
That show was so cool
because every time there’s a church with a ghoul
Or a ghost in a school
They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The fucking janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide.
Throughout history
Every mystery
Ever solved has turned out to be
Not Magic.

Does the idea that there might be truth
Frighten you?
Does the idea that one afternoon
On Wiki-fucking-pedia might enlighten you
Frighten you?
Does the notion that there may not be a supernatural
So blow your hippy noodle
That you would rather just stand in the fog
Of your inability to Google?

Isn’t this enough?

Just this world?

Just this beautiful, complex
Wonderfully unfathomable, NATURAL world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?
If you’re so into Shakespeare
Lend me your ear:
“To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw perfume on the violet… is just fucking silly”
Or something like that.
Or what about Satchmo?!
I see trees of Green,
Red roses too,
And fine, if you wish to
Glorify Krishna and Vishnu
In a post-colonial, condescending
Bottled-up and labeled kind of way
Then whatever, that’s ok.
But here’s what gives me a hard-on:
I am a tiny, insignificant, ignorant lump of carbon.
I have one life, and it is short
And unimportant…
But thanks to recent scientific advances
I get to live twice as long
As my great great great great uncleses and auntses.
Twice as long to live this life of mine
Twice as long to love this wife of mine
Twice as many years of friends and wine
Of sharing curries and getting shitty
With good-looking hippies
With fairies on their spines
And butterflies on their titties.

Seriously?

I DON’T believe in homeopathy…..for the record

:)

undefined

Wouldn’t astrology mean a lack of free will, if our personality is ordained by the stars

It’s really the only one that makes sense to most of us.. shrug …

i see no other way. doesn’t mean we apply the scientific method to our everyday life though.

What I find beyond belief is that some educated people can’t differentiate between science and spirituality.

Is there such a thing as spiritual science? Kumare.

roughbarked said:

Is there such a thing as spiritual science? Kumare.

No

ChrispenEvan said:

It’s really the only one that makes sense to most of us.. shrug …

i see no other way. doesn’t mean we apply the scientific method to our everyday life though.

You might not, I do .. especially when it comes to choices on health care :)

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

My mind is open to all sorts of things, given solid, repeatable, measurable evidence for it …

Otherwise your mind isn’t open, it’s just gullible

Wow, that’s a very condescending thing to say to me.
You obviously don’t know me.

Life & the mysteries of the Universe are way bigger and more complex than you or I can understand.

But I get it, you don’t believe or have any interest in astrology….good for you….life goes on

It’s not condescending at all.,

There needs to be a filter in order to determine what is worth considering or what is not worth considering..

Talking to people on this forum, the majority of us have chosen the scientific principle as that filter…

It’s really the only one that makes sense to most of us.. shrug …

I’m fully aware of the general status of most people on this forum.

It actually is condescending.

Like I already stated……I have an interest in both, I’ve also studied both.
I also enjoy learning more about both subjects.

Peak Warming Man said:

What I find beyond belief is that some educated people can’t differentiate between science and spirituality.

Of course we can.. one is based on fact, and common sense, the other is an artefact of the way our brain is wired.

Peak Warming Man said:

What I find beyond belief is that some educated people can’t differentiate between science and spirituality.

It would be interesting to see if you could explain spirituality with science, which would be akin to blasphemy as its all about faith

i see the problems occurring when ‘spiritual” people start ascribing physical attributes to their belief. it then becomes a concern of science.

Mystical “truths,” by their nature, must be solely personal, and they can have no possible external validation. Each has equal claim to truth. Tea leaf reading and astrology and Buddhism; each is equally sound or unsound if we judge by the absence of related evidence. This is not intended to disparage any one of the faiths; merely to note the impossibility of verifying their correctness. The mystic is in a paradoxical position. When he seeks external support for his views he must turn to external arguments, and he denies mysticism in the process. External validation is, by definition, impossible for the mystic.

— Richard Hardison

Dropbear said:

Peak Warming Man said:

What I find beyond belief is that some educated people can’t differentiate between science and spirituality.

Of course we can.. one is based on fact, and common sense, the other is an artefact of the way our brain is wired.

Or a reality that science cant explain so it denies it.

Cymek said:

The smelling of armpits is a faith?

Cymek said:

Wouldn’t astrology mean a lack of free will, if our personality is ordained by the stars

No.

Or a reality that science cant explain so it denies it.

Bzzzzzt. wrong.

ChrispenEvan said:

Or a reality that science cant explain so it denies it.

Bzzzzzt. wrong.

Show your workings.

Peak Warming Man said:

Dropbear said:

Peak Warming Man said:

What I find beyond belief is that some educated people can’t differentiate between science and spirituality.

Of course we can.. one is based on fact, and common sense, the other is an artefact of the way our brain is wired.

Or a reality that science cant explain so it denies it.

But it’s not .. because there is no evidence for it being a reality.. there is not one single piece of rational evidence for “spirituality” …

It beggars belief really that people in the 21st century can go to their doctors who practice evidence based scientific medicine.. discuss topics on the internet, and yet happily fall back to pre-renaissance superstition because they don’t want to confront the idea that maybe it’s not the gods that created man, but it’s man that created the gods..

oh well…

eventually some of us come around

science doesn’t deny it it just says that the supernatural, by definition, is outside the scope of science.

Peak Warming Man said:

Dropbear said:

Peak Warming Man said:

What I find beyond belief is that some educated people can’t differentiate between science and spirituality.

Of course we can.. one is based on fact, and common sense, the other is an artefact of the way our brain is wired.

Or a reality that science cant explain so it denies it.

Perhaps but not magic, spirituality exists as a survival instinct so people banded together for protection or it was all just made up to gain power over others

It’s like how human see patterns and pictures in random images, ie images of Jesus in cheese sandwiches, religion sees all these patterns and miracles,etc which are nothing more than coincidence and playing the numbers

Cymek said:

It’s like how human see patterns and pictures in random images, ie images of Jesus in cheese sandwiches, religion sees all these patterns and miracles,etc which are nothing more than coincidence and playing the numbers

I really need to be clear about one thing.

I think homoeopathy is rubbish….please do not throw me into that basket because I have an interest in astrology.

I’m not an idiot, nor am I gullible.
I admire many scientists and enjoy learning about hard science.

Cymek said:

It’s like how human see patterns and pictures in random images, ie images of Jesus in cheese sandwiches, religion sees all these patterns and miracles,etc which are nothing more than coincidence and playing the numbers

there is a scientific explanation for that

Pareidolia

Dropbear said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Dropbear said:

Of course we can.. one is based on fact, and common sense, the other is an artefact of the way our brain is wired.

Or a reality that science cant explain so it denies it.

But it’s not .. because there is no evidence for it being a reality.. there is not one single piece of rational evidence for “spirituality” …

It beggars belief really that people in the 21st century can go to their doctors who practice evidence based scientific medicine.. discuss topics on the internet, and yet happily fall back to pre-renaissance superstition because they don’t want to confront the idea that maybe it’s not the gods that created man, but it’s man that created the gods..

oh well…

eventually some of us come around

You’re just being self-righteous.
Spirituality is not in the realms of science and vice versa.
You cant use science to prove or disprove something witch is outside it’s bailiwick.
Once people understand this they stop trying to use dissimilar paradigms and are happier for it.

Plus is it too much to ask if god /religion is real for proof?
Its weird a supreme being ask for faith in a universe that is based on scientific principles, things we can observe

Cymek said:

It’s like how human see patterns and pictures in random images, ie images of Jesus in cheese sandwiches, religion sees all these patterns and miracles,etc which are nothing more than coincidence and playing the numbers

People don’t like comprehending that life doesn’t have some giant cosmic purpose behind it.

Our brains are only just capable of understanding that reality and they sometimes have a hard time coping, especially during highly traumatic periods

Well religions can’t all be right ;)

But you’re free to pick your own wrong one

Peak Warming Man said:

Dropbear said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Or a reality that science cant explain so it denies it.

But it’s not .. because there is no evidence for it being a reality.. there is not one single piece of rational evidence for “spirituality” …

It beggars belief really that people in the 21st century can go to their doctors who practice evidence based scientific medicine.. discuss topics on the internet, and yet happily fall back to pre-renaissance superstition because they don’t want to confront the idea that maybe it’s not the gods that created man, but it’s man that created the gods..

oh well…

eventually some of us come around

You’re just being self-righteous.
Spirituality is not in the realms of science and vice versa.
You cant use science to prove or disprove something witch is outside it’s bailiwick.
Once people understand this they stop trying to use dissimilar paradigms and are happier for it.

Shouldn’t spirituality be in the realm of science though, does it exist outside of a universe governed by “rules”
Wouldn’t god be the ultimate technology being

Dropbear said:

Well religions can’t all be right ;)

But you’re free to pick your own wrong one

I’ll consider that quote a keeper. May I?

I’m not being self-righteous. I’ve thrown off the yoke of superstition. Surely that’s a good thing

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

Well religions can’t all be right ;)

But you’re free to pick your own wrong one

I’ll consider that quote a keeper. May I?

Heh sure

Wouldn’t god be the ultimate technology being

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

It’s like how human see patterns and pictures in random images, ie images of Jesus in cheese sandwiches, religion sees all these patterns and miracles,etc which are nothing more than coincidence and playing the numbers

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roughbarked/5850488478

Yeah, but there’s no doubt that this is simply an image of Baloo having a bad hair day.

Speedy said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

It’s like how human see patterns and pictures in random images, ie images of Jesus in cheese sandwiches, religion sees all these patterns and miracles,etc which are nothing more than coincidence and playing the numbers

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roughbarked/5850488478

Yeah, but there’s no doubt that this is simply an image of Baloo having a bad hair day.

:)

Exits stage left.

The irony is that humans like it when others agree with our mindsets.

In that, those that favour rational thought over superstition are no different.

Peak Warming Man said:

You’re just being self-righteous.
Spirituality is not in the realms of science and vice versa.
You cant use science to prove or disprove something witch is outside it’s bailiwick.
Once people understand this they stop trying to use dissimilar paradigms and are happier for it.

That’s just a cop-out.
Either spirituality (whatever that is) affects us or it doesn’t.
If it doesn’t, we don’t need to worry about it.
If it does then it is something that can be studied by science.

Dropbear said:

The irony is that humans like it when others agree with our mindsets.

In that, those that favour rational thought over superstition are no different.

Yes like you and I agree we are the best looking men in our respective states

Cymek said:

Dropbear said:

The irony is that humans like it when others agree with our mindsets.

In that, those that favour rational thought over superstition are no different.

Yes like you and I agree we are the best looking men in our respective states

Exactly.. There’s not been any evidence shown to the contrary :)

Dropbear said:

The irony is that humans like it when others agree with our mindsets.

In that, those that favour rational thought over superstition are no different.

That’s true (the first comment)
There’s also the issues of confirmation bias & illusory correlation.

However, there are also people who don’t sit at one end of the spectrum, some people don’t see life as either black or white, they see shades of grey or even colour.
Just an analogy to express a point.

I’m a bitch, I’m a lover
I’m a child, I’m a mother
I’m a sinner, I’m a saint
I do not feel ashamed
I’m your hell, I’m your dream
I’m nothing in between
You know you wouldn’t want it any other way

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

The irony is that humans like it when others agree with our mindsets.

In that, those that favour rational thought over superstition are no different.

That’s true (the first comment)
There’s also the issues of confirmation bias & illusory correlation.

However, there are also people who don’t sit at one end of the spectrum, some people don’t see life as either black or white, they see shades of grey or even colour.
Just an analogy to express a point.

Science shouldn’t be arrogant to assume spirituality isn’t real but it would require proof though, unfounded faith is a cop out, haven’t many fringe theories and alternative medicines been investigated and no evidence so far they are real

Divine Angel said:

I’m a bitch, I’m a lover
I’m a child, I’m a mother
I’m a sinner, I’m a saint
I do not feel ashamed
I’m your hell, I’m your dream
I’m nothing in between
You know you wouldn’t want it any other way

Are you a goddess on your knees?

“I have a friend who’s an artist and has sometimes taken a view which I don’t agree with very well. He’ll hold up a flower and say “look how beautiful it is,” and I’ll agree. Then he says “I as an artist can see how beautiful this is but you as a scientist take this all apart and it becomes a dull thing,” and I think that he’s kind of nutty. First of all, the beauty that he sees is available to other people and to me too, I believe. Although I may not be quite as refined aesthetically as he is … I can appreciate the beauty of a flower. At the same time, I see much more about the flower than he sees. I could imagine the cells in there, the complicated actions inside, which also have a beauty. I mean it’s not just beauty at this dimension, at one centimeter; there’s also beauty at smaller dimensions, the inner structure, also the processes. The fact that the colors in the flower evolved in order to attract insects to pollinate it is interesting; it means that insects can see the color. It adds a question: does this aesthetic sense also exist in the lower forms? Why is it aesthetic? All kinds of interesting questions which the science knowledge only adds to the excitement, the mystery and the awe of a flower. It only adds. I don’t understand how it subtracts.”

― Richard P. Feynman

so no, we don’t see in black and white.

All these molecules don’t make me who I am

The thing is you vehemently state you’re not into homoeopathy but then state you’re interested in astrology…

I don’t understand an each way bet like that

Plus its strange that most religion has its origins when little or no science existed and gods/spiritual beings visited Earth and nothing since science started to explain the workings of the universe.

i blame sibeen. he started this. fink that he is.

Dropbear said:

Divine Angel said:

I’m a bitch, I’m a lover
I’m a child, I’m a mother
I’m a sinner, I’m a saint
I do not feel ashamed
I’m your hell, I’m your dream
I’m nothing in between
You know you wouldn’t want it any other way

Are you a goddess on your knees?

raises eyebrow

ChrispenEvan said:

i blame sibeen. he started this. fink that he is.

You people are just doing this so I will find it difficult to collate the responses to the OP.

Bastards!

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

You’re just being self-righteous.
Spirituality is not in the realms of science and vice versa.
You cant use science to prove or disprove something witch is outside it’s bailiwick.
Once people understand this they stop trying to use dissimilar paradigms and are happier for it.

That’s just a cop-out.
Either spirituality (whatever that is) affects us or it doesn’t.
If it doesn’t, we don’t need to worry about it.
If it does then it is something that can be studied by science.

It’s not a cop out it’s what I believe, it’s my walk, I think about it a lot.
I’m certainly not swayed by the arguments put up here of “oh it cant be true it’s not science”
You have to wonder who is captive here.

ChrispenEvan said:

“I have a friend who’s an artist and has sometimes taken a view which I don’t agree with very well. He’ll hold up a flower and say “look how beautiful it is,” and I’ll agree. Then he says “I as an artist can see how beautiful this is but you as a scientist take this all apart and it becomes a dull thing,” and I think that he’s kind of nutty. First of all, the beauty that he sees is available to other people and to me too, I believe. Although I may not be quite as refined aesthetically as he is … I can appreciate the beauty of a flower. At the same time, I see much more about the flower than he sees. I could imagine the cells in there, the complicated actions inside, which also have a beauty. I mean it’s not just beauty at this dimension, at one centimeter; there’s also beauty at smaller dimensions, the inner structure, also the processes. The fact that the colors in the flower evolved in order to attract insects to pollinate it is interesting; it means that insects can see the color. It adds a question: does this aesthetic sense also exist in the lower forms? Why is it aesthetic? All kinds of interesting questions which the science knowledge only adds to the excitement, the mystery and the awe of a flower. It only adds. I don’t understand how it subtracts.”

― Richard P. Feynman

so no, we don’t see in black and white.

I can only assume you are referencing my black/white analogy.

You are misrepresenting my comment.
My comment was not specific to any one person or group of persons.

just look at the data you’re getting though? a glodmine it is.

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

You’re just being self-righteous.
Spirituality is not in the realms of science and vice versa.
You cant use science to prove or disprove something witch is outside it’s bailiwick.
Once people understand this they stop trying to use dissimilar paradigms and are happier for it.

That’s just a cop-out.
Either spirituality (whatever that is) affects us or it doesn’t.
If it doesn’t, we don’t need to worry about it.
If it does then it is something that can be studied by science.

It’s not a cop out it’s what I believe, it’s my walk, I think about it a lot.
I’m certainly not swayed by the arguments put up here of “oh it cant be true it’s not science”
You have to wonder who is captive here.

It takes a brave man to say “my belief system of the last n decades is a lie and cannot be supported”..

I know.. I’ve been there…

shrug

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

You’re just being self-righteous.
Spirituality is not in the realms of science and vice versa.
You cant use science to prove or disprove something witch is outside it’s bailiwick.
Once people understand this they stop trying to use dissimilar paradigms and are happier for it.

That’s just a cop-out.
Either spirituality (whatever that is) affects us or it doesn’t.
If it doesn’t, we don’t need to worry about it.
If it does then it is something that can be studied by science.

It’s not a cop out it’s what I believe, it’s my walk, I think about it a lot.
I’m certainly not swayed by the arguments put up here of “oh it cant be true it’s not science”
You have to wonder who is captive here.

Do you think spirituality is science we don’t understand yet or does the universe have two sets of rules science and spirituality.

I’m certainly not swayed by the arguments put up here of “oh it cant be true it’s not science”

you certainly like strawmen. i have already answered this.

ChrispenEvan said:

I’m certainly not swayed by the arguments put up here of “oh it cant be true it’s not science”

you certainly like strawmen. i have already answered this.

I missed it, can you repost.

Dropbear said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That’s just a cop-out.
Either spirituality (whatever that is) affects us or it doesn’t.
If it doesn’t, we don’t need to worry about it.
If it does then it is something that can be studied by science.

It’s not a cop out it’s what I believe, it’s my walk, I think about it a lot.
I’m certainly not swayed by the arguments put up here of “oh it cant be true it’s not science”
You have to wonder who is captive here.

It takes a brave man to say “my belief system of the last n decades is a lie and cannot be supported”..

I know.. I’ve been there…

shrug

My wife is religious and tries to instil this belief in my youngest daughter, its the decent parts be kind to others,etc and they do prayers together, I wouldn’t stop her but I won’t support it. My youngest wanted me to do do prayers with her and said I won’t I don’t believe in it and its wrong for me to pretend I do.

nah, you go look for it. you asked me specifically to show workings. i did.

Dropbear said:

The thing is you vehemently state you’re not into homoeopathy but then state you’re interested in astrology…

I don’t understand an each way bet like that

It’s not an each way bet.
You can’t understand because, maybe you don’t want too.
You have already decided in your mind that astrology is rubbish.

Because you require hard scientific evidence for the validity of astrology, which I am unable to provide.
Even if I could offer you something you would think worthy of reading, It couldn’t be done in this forum / format anyway, not in any detail.

I see nothing wrong in believing fairies live in my garden.

Perhaps astrology makes people feel special as something great may happen to them this or the next day instead of reality you’ll get up still tired and get dressed and go to some shit kicker job just to earn money to repeat the entire process

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

The thing is you vehemently state you’re not into homoeopathy but then state you’re interested in astrology…

I don’t understand an each way bet like that

It’s not an each way bet.
You can’t understand because, maybe you don’t want too.
You have already decided in your mind that astrology is rubbish.

Because you require hard scientific evidence for the validity of astrology, which I am unable to provide.
Even if I could offer you something you would think worthy of reading, It couldn’t be done in this forum / format anyway, not in any detail.

I’ve already shown you a simple year 10 physics explanation on WHY astrology is bullshit.
It’s not an if maybe issue. Its clearly bullshit.

The gravitational influence of a plane flyover is more than the celestial bodies other than the sun or moon. That’s veritable hard science, that you can work out from year 10 physics

I think you can be spiritual without having to believe in a deity and that spiritualism is a continuum

This being said, the simple fact is that many people choose not to be critical of certain belief structures because they don’t want there to be fault found in them.

Cymek said:

Perhaps astrology makes people feel special as something great may happen to them this or the next day instead of reality you’ll get up still tired and get dressed and go to some shit kicker job just to earn money to repeat the entire process

they believe because they want to feel that there is some ‘greater’ reasoning, or purpose, behind why things are happening

problem is… shit happens

ChrispenEvan said:

nah, you go look for it. you asked me specifically to show workings. i did.

>>science doesn’t deny it it just says that the supernatural, by definition, is outside the scope of science.

Praise the Lord, we agree on something.

diddly-squat said:

Cymek said:

Perhaps astrology makes people feel special as something great may happen to them this or the next day instead of reality you’ll get up still tired and get dressed and go to some shit kicker job just to earn money to repeat the entire process

they believe because they want to feel that there is some ‘greater’ reasoning, or purpose, behind why things are happening

problem is… shit happens

This comes in various forms: God works in mysterious ways, karma, law of attraction etc. People believe certain thoughts create disease (let’s not get into what “diets” cure these diseases). But yeah, shit happens.

diddly-squat said:

I think you can be spiritual without having to believe in a deity and that spiritualism is a continuum

This being said, the simple fact is that many people choose not to be critical of certain belief structures because they don’t want there to be fault found in them.

Spirituality, what ever that means, it’s not compatible with rational thought

Peak Warming Man said:

ChrispenEvan said:

nah, you go look for it. you asked me specifically to show workings. i did.

>>science doesn’t deny it it just says that the supernatural, by definition, is outside the scope of science.

Praise the Lord, we agree on something.

science doesn’t say that the supernatural is outside its scope… there have been a great many scientific efforts to prove supernatural phenomenon. the problem with the supernatural is that it is unverifiable.

Fear is not compatible with rational thought either, but that makes it no less real. Especially the weirdo fears like being afraid of clouds or buttons.

diddly-squat said:

Peak Warming Man said:

ChrispenEvan said:

nah, you go look for it. you asked me specifically to show workings. i did.

>>science doesn’t deny it it just says that the supernatural, by definition, is outside the scope of science.

Praise the Lord, we agree on something.

science doesn’t say that the supernatural is outside its scope… there have been a great many scientific efforts to prove supernatural phenomenon. the problem with the supernatural is that it is unverifiable.

I thought by definition that once something supernatural happens, it has to then become natural?

diddly-squat said:

By science, you mean?

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

the problem with the supernatural is that it is unverifiable.

By science, you mean?

um, sorry forgot a bracket.

Divine Angel said:

Fear is not compatible with rational thought either, but that makes it no less real. Especially the weirdo fears like being afraid of clouds or buttons.

Fear of heights is rational, snakes, spiders etc

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

The thing is you vehemently state you’re not into homoeopathy but then state you’re interested in astrology…

I don’t understand an each way bet like that

It’s not an each way bet.
You can’t understand because, maybe you don’t want too.
You have already decided in your mind that astrology is rubbish.

Because you require hard scientific evidence for the validity of astrology, which I am unable to provide.
Even if I could offer you something you would think worthy of reading, It couldn’t be done in this forum / format anyway, not in any detail.

I’ve already shown you a simple year 10 physics explanation on WHY astrology is bullshit.
It’s not an if maybe issue. Its clearly bullshit.

The gravitational influence of a plane flyover is more than the celestial bodies other than the sun or moon. That’s veritable hard science, that you can work out from year 10 physics

There is a gravitational interaction occurring between Pluto and the Sun, this spacial distance is significantly further than the Earth / Moon, Earth/Sun forces and Pluto has significantly less mass than even our Moon…..don’t forget comets with even smaller mass again.

Your explanation does not disprove astrology.

Dropbear said:

Divine Angel said:

Fear is not compatible with rational thought either, but that makes it no less real. Especially the weirdo fears like being afraid of clouds or buttons.

Fear of heights is rational, snakes, spiders etc

Fear of drowning?

Still we need to never stop questioning, never stop wondering, never stop growing.

When the earth was young and we were dim
Survival was our only thing
We had no time grow our brain
Until that is we planted grain
Our minds were weak but growing stronger
Time to wonder, time to ponder

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

It’s not an each way bet.
You can’t understand because, maybe you don’t want too.
You have already decided in your mind that astrology is rubbish.

Because you require hard scientific evidence for the validity of astrology, which I am unable to provide.
Even if I could offer you something you would think worthy of reading, It couldn’t be done in this forum / format anyway, not in any detail.

I’ve already shown you a simple year 10 physics explanation on WHY astrology is bullshit.
It’s not an if maybe issue. Its clearly bullshit.

The gravitational influence of a plane flyover is more than the celestial bodies other than the sun or moon. That’s veritable hard science, that you can work out from year 10 physics

There is a gravitational interaction occurring between Pluto and the Sun, this spacial distance is significantly further than the Earth / Moon, Earth/Sun forces and Pluto has significantly less mass than even our Moon…..don’t forget comets with even smaller mass again.

Your explanation does not disprove astrology.

None of the planets have any significant effect on us, here on earth and that is overcome by things such as planes flyover head.

Peak Warming Man said:

Still we need to never stop questioning, never stop wondering, never stop growing.

When the earth was young and we were dim
Survival was our only thing
We had no time grow our brain
Until that is we planted grain
Our minds were weak but growing stronger
Time to wonder, time to ponder

Sure the first thing we planted wasn’t cannabis?

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

Divine Angel said:

Fear is not compatible with rational thought either, but that makes it no less real. Especially the weirdo fears like being afraid of clouds or buttons.

Fear of heights is rational, snakes, spiders etc

Fear of drowning?

In spiders?

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

I’ve already shown you a simple year 10 physics explanation on WHY astrology is bullshit.
It’s not an if maybe issue. Its clearly bullshit.

The gravitational influence of a plane flyover is more than the celestial bodies other than the sun or moon. That’s veritable hard science, that you can work out from year 10 physics

There is a gravitational interaction occurring between Pluto and the Sun, this spacial distance is significantly further than the Earth / Moon, Earth/Sun forces and Pluto has significantly less mass than even our Moon…..don’t forget comets with even smaller mass again.

Your explanation does not disprove astrology.

None of the planets have any significant effect on us, here on earth and that is overcome by things such as planes flyover head.

Aluminium?

Dropbear said:

Spirituality, what ever that means, it’s not compatible with rational thought

I suspect you’re over egging the pudding a tad there, Bear.

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

Fear of heights is rational, snakes, spiders etc

Fear of drowning?

In spiders?

That’s literally happened to me and didn’t scare me a bit.

sibeen said:

Dropbear said:

Spirituality, what ever that means, it’s not compatible with rational thought

I suspect you’re over egging the pudding a tad there, Bear.

He’s ever seeking outrage. ;)

Dropbear said:

None of the planets have any significant effect on us, here on earth and that is overcome by things such as planes flyover head.

Astrology would have had to change when Pluto and the other dwarf planets were discovered, to fit with how their whatever fits in with our personalities and life events. Before their discovery, surely some aspects of our lives couldn’t be explained just with the known planets and comets?

roughbarked said:

That’s literally happened to me and didn’t scare me a bit.

Is there anything that does scare you?

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

I think you can be spiritual without having to believe in a deity and that spiritualism is a continuum

This being said, the simple fact is that many people choose not to be critical of certain belief structures because they don’t want there to be fault found in them.

Spirituality, what ever that means, it’s not compatible with rational thought

Technically that statement is correct but it certainly does not mean any one person cannot encompass both these aspects in their view of life

Divine Angel said:

Dropbear said:

None of the planets have any significant effect on us, here on earth and that is overcome by things such as planes flyover head.

Astrology would have had to change when Pluto and the other dwarf planets were discovered, to fit with how their whatever fits in with our personalities and life events. Before their discovery, surely some aspects of our lives couldn’t be explained just with the known planets and comets?

Being dwarf planets, they don’t amount to much.

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

That’s literally happened to me and didn’t scare me a bit.

Is there anything that does scare you?

SWMBO.

what people are talking about with the Moon is tidal effects, look it up. as for gravitational attraction then being on the earth swamps all other bodies effects.

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

I think you can be spiritual without having to believe in a deity and that spiritualism is a continuum

This being said, the simple fact is that many people choose not to be critical of certain belief structures because they don’t want there to be fault found in them.

Spirituality, what ever that means, it’s not compatible with rational thought

Technically that statement is correct but it certainly does not mean any one person cannot encompass both these aspects in their view of life

That’s the same as saying that paganism and christianity have co-existed side by side?

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

diddly-squat said:

I think you can be spiritual without having to believe in a deity and that spiritualism is a continuum

This being said, the simple fact is that many people choose not to be critical of certain belief structures because they don’t want there to be fault found in them.

Spirituality, what ever that means, it’s not compatible with rational thought

Technically that statement is correct but it certainly does not mean any one person cannot encompass both these aspects in their view of life

It doesn’t only because cognitive dissonance enables, no, forces people to ignore or overlook the quote obvious absurd incompatibility

ChrispenEvan said:

what people are talking about with the Moon is tidal effects, look it up. as for gravitational attraction then being on the earth swamps all other bodies effects.

That’s why I use moon charts to navigate my gharden. the lunar light also affests the lateral growth of plants but the moon is way closer than any other celesial body out tghere.

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

That’s literally happened to me and didn’t scare me a bit.

Is there anything that does scare you?

Carnies

science can look at the physical manifestations that the supernatural may produce but the actual supernatural is outside its purview. therefore science doesn’t look to explain god but it can look at the miracles.

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That’s just a cop-out.
Either spirituality (whatever that is) affects us or it doesn’t.
If it doesn’t, we don’t need to worry about it.
If it does then it is something that can be studied by science.

It’s not a cop out it’s what I believe, it’s my walk, I think about it a lot.
I’m certainly not swayed by the arguments put up here of “oh it cant be true it’s not science”
You have to wonder who is captive here.

You seem to be responding to something I didn’t say.
Why do you have to wonder who is captive here?
Has someone made some mention of people being captive that I missed?

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

I’ve already shown you a simple year 10 physics explanation on WHY astrology is bullshit.
It’s not an if maybe issue. Its clearly bullshit.

The gravitational influence of a plane flyover is more than the celestial bodies other than the sun or moon. That’s veritable hard science, that you can work out from year 10 physics

There is a gravitational interaction occurring between Pluto and the Sun, this spacial distance is significantly further than the Earth / Moon, Earth/Sun forces and Pluto has significantly less mass than even our Moon…..don’t forget comets with even smaller mass again.

Your explanation does not disprove astrology.

None of the planets have any significant effect on us, here on earth and that is overcome by things such as planes flyover head.

Well, first we would need to define “effect” and “significant”.

At this point, you can’t say for sure there is no effect on “us”, unless you are privvy to knowledge of all forces / energies involved with the Universe and our Solar system.
Maybe it’s not gravity, I simply used that as a starting point of discussion as to what I perceived to be a reasonable possibility…..bearing in mind I am not an astrophysicist.

We haven’t detected gravity waves yet so if our brain is affected by them then its a lot more sensitive than any scientific equipment we’ve invented

Cymek said:

We haven’t detected gravity waves yet so if our brain is affected by them then its a lot more sensitive than any scientific equipment we’ve invented

eyes/cameras.

you need some form of “antenna” to detect gravity waves and them being of such long wavelength then it would seem that we are not physically large enough to accommodate such and “antenna”.

ChrispenEvan said:

what people are talking about with the Moon is tidal effects, look it up. as for gravitational attraction then being on the earth swamps all other bodies effects.

Some people mistakenly assume that the moons gravity only affects the water on earth. I’m pretty sure it affects the land too.

it does Pete. 2m from memory.

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

Spirituality, what ever that means, it’s not compatible with rational thought

Technically that statement is correct but it certainly does not mean any one person cannot encompass both these aspects in their view of life

It doesn’t only because cognitive dissonance enables, no, forces people to ignore or overlook the quote obvious absurd incompatibility

Cognitive dissonance is not absolute.

Are you saying it is absolutely impossible for people to have both a spiritual belief AND the ability to apply logic in their lives?
Or to put it another way, are those who are of a spiritual nature incapable of thinking logically by virtue of the fact they can’t explain their spirituality via science?

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

Spirituality, what ever that means, it’s not compatible with rational thought

Technically that statement is correct but it certainly does not mean any one person cannot encompass both these aspects in their view of life

Well technically, since he has not defined Spirituality, it doesn’t actually mean anything.

I don’t know what spirituality means either; it seems to means lots of different things to different people.

ChrispenEvan said:

you need some form of “antenna” to detect gravity waves and them being of such long wavelength then it would seem that we are not physically large enough to accommodate such and “antenna”.

There are some bird species that use the Earth’s magnetic field to navigate.
They don’t have a big compass on there heads.

*yes, I know gravity waves are different from magnetic fields.

sibeen said:

Dropbear said:

Spirituality, what ever that means, it’s not compatible with rational thought

I suspect you’re over egging the pudding a tad there, Bear.

He’s becoming more like me every day. makes me proud and a little bit scared.

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

you need some form of “antenna” to detect gravity waves and them being of such long wavelength then it would seem that we are not physically large enough to accommodate such and “antenna”.

There are some bird species that use the Earth’s magnetic field to navigate.
They don’t have a big compass on there heads.

*yes, I know gravity waves are different from magnetic fields.

*their

There are some bird species that use the Earth’s magnetic field to navigate.

yeah….and? they, some homing pigeons, also use roads. and other manmade landmarks. don’t believe they have a UBD in their heads though.

Dropbear said:

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

The thing is you vehemently state you’re not into homoeopathy but then state you’re interested in astrology…

I don’t understand an each way bet like that

It’s not an each way bet.
You can’t understand because, maybe you don’t want too.
You have already decided in your mind that astrology is rubbish.

Because you require hard scientific evidence for the validity of astrology, which I am unable to provide.
Even if I could offer you something you would think worthy of reading, It couldn’t be done in this forum / format anyway, not in any detail.

I’ve already shown you a simple year 10 physics explanation on WHY astrology is bullshit.
It’s not an if maybe issue. Its clearly bullshit.

The gravitational influence of a plane flyover is more than the celestial bodies other than the sun or moon. That’s veritable hard science, that you can work out from year 10 physics

And they are using chemtrails to change our personalities, too.

Divine Angel said:

Fear is not compatible with rational thought either, but that makes it no less real. Especially the weirdo fears like being afraid of clouds or buttons.

Or clowns.

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

you need some form of “antenna” to detect gravity waves and them being of such long wavelength then it would seem that we are not physically large enough to accommodate such and “antenna”.

There are some bird species that use the Earth’s magnetic field to navigate.
They don’t have a big compass on there heads.

*yes, I know gravity waves are different from magnetic fields.

They have a small compass inside their heads.

Of course its possible that humans have some response to gravitational variations due to passing visible planets (but not passing aeroplanes or eagles), but the point is that we have no reason to believe that this effect does exist.

Divine Angel said:

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

you need some form of “antenna” to detect gravity waves and them being of such long wavelength then it would seem that we are not physically large enough to accommodate such and “antenna”.

There are some bird species that use the Earth’s magnetic field to navigate.
They don’t have a big compass on there heads.

*yes, I know gravity waves are different from magnetic fields.

*their

Are you sure?

:)

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

Fear is not compatible with rational thought either, but that makes it no less real. Especially the weirdo fears like being afraid of clouds or buttons.

Or clowns.

Fear is perfectly compatible with rational thought. It would be highly irrational to dismiss all fear.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

Fear is not compatible with rational thought either, but that makes it no less real. Especially the weirdo fears like being afraid of clouds or buttons.

Or clowns.

Fear is perfectly compatible with rational thought. It would be highly irrational to dismiss all fear.

Fear can dramatically sharpen rational thought.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

Fear is not compatible with rational thought either, but that makes it no less real. Especially the weirdo fears like being afraid of clouds or buttons.

Or clowns.

Fear is perfectly compatible with rational thought. It would be highly irrational to dismiss all fear.

Of course, some fears are perfectly rational. The fears of buttons or cotton buds etc defy logic.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

Or clowns.

Fear is perfectly compatible with rational thought. It would be highly irrational to dismiss all fear.

Fear can dramatically sharpen rational thought.

ie: it is entirely irrational to succumb to fear when fear is telling your mind how to react.

Divine Angel said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

Or clowns.

Fear is perfectly compatible with rational thought. It would be highly irrational to dismiss all fear.

Of course, some fears are perfectly rational. The fears of buttons or cotton buds etc defy logic.

so rationalise arachnohobia to me. I’m all legs ears.

insert a p.

Divine Angel said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

Or clowns.

Fear is perfectly compatible with rational thought. It would be highly irrational to dismiss all fear.

Of course, some fears are perfectly rational. The fears of buttons or cotton buds etc defy logic.

Which suggests that we should be wary of grouping things into strict either/or categories.

Nicely bringing us back to the original theme of the thread :)

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Fear is perfectly compatible with rational thought. It would be highly irrational to dismiss all fear.

Of course, some fears are perfectly rational. The fears of buttons or cotton buds etc defy logic.

so rationalise arachnohobia to me. I’m all legs ears.

It’s a hard wired response from most people which can be overcome like a lot of phobias, through constant exposure and education

Darn it, I forgot to hang out my washing

LOL

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Fear is perfectly compatible with rational thought. It would be highly irrational to dismiss all fear.

Of course, some fears are perfectly rational. The fears of buttons or cotton buds etc defy logic.

so rationalise arachnohobia to me. I’m all legs ears.

roughbarked said:

insert a p.

so rationalise arachnohobia to me. I’m all legs pears.

Aquila said:

Darn it, I forgot to hang out my washing

LOL

You too. Luckily there is a cold breeze blowing.

stumpy_seahorse said:

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

so rationalise arachnohobia to me. I’m all legs ears.

roughbarked said:

insert a p.

so rationalise arachnohobia to me. I’m all legs pears.

Seems you lost -ap-pears.

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

you need some form of “antenna” to detect gravity waves and them being of such long wavelength then it would seem that we are not physically large enough to accommodate such and “antenna”.

There are some bird species that use the Earth’s magnetic field to navigate.
They don’t have a big compass on there heads.

*yes, I know gravity waves are different from magnetic fields.

But they do have magnetite crystals in their heads. You know, “lodestone” that was used in days of yore by mariners to make compasses.

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

Of course, some fears are perfectly rational. The fears of buttons or cotton buds etc defy logic.

so rationalise arachnophobia to me. I’m all legs ears.

It’s a hard wired response from most people which can be overcome like a lot of phobias, through constant exposure and education

Thank you.

Michael V said:

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

you need some form of “antenna” to detect gravity waves and them being of such long wavelength then it would seem that we are not physically large enough to accommodate such and “antenna”.

There are some bird species that use the Earth’s magnetic field to navigate.
They don’t have a big compass on there heads.

*yes, I know gravity waves are different from magnetic fields.

But they do have magnetite crystals in their heads. You know, “lodestone” that was used in days of yore by mariners to make compasses.

evidence of early use of tools?

they were making boats before compaii so a late tool use.

ChrispenEvan said:

they were making boats before compaii so a late tool use.

In relation to boating, that is.

I’ve enjoyed this discussion / debate.
Intellectual stimulation, I like.

*Must be my Moon in Libra trine my Jupiter in Gemini…. 3rd house

LOL

:P

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

Aquila said:

There are some bird species that use the Earth’s magnetic field to navigate.
They don’t have a big compass on there heads.

*yes, I know gravity waves are different from magnetic fields.

But they do have magnetite crystals in their heads. You know, “lodestone” that was used in days of yore by mariners to make compasses.

evidence of early use of tools?

No.

Just a quirk of evolution that allows a sense of the magnetic field to develop using magnetite. IIRC some nematodes use magnetite to sense up-down directions, too.

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

Divine Angel said:

Of course, some fears are perfectly rational. The fears of buttons or cotton buds etc defy logic.

so rationalise arachnohobia to me. I’m all legs ears.

It’s a hard wired response from most people which can be overcome like a lot of phobias, through constant exposure and education

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

The thing is you vehemently state you’re not into homoeopathy but then state you’re interested in astrology…

I don’t understand an each way bet like that

It’s not an each way bet.
You can’t understand because, maybe you don’t want too.
You have already decided in your mind that astrology is rubbish.

Because you require hard scientific evidence for the validity of astrology, which I am unable to provide.
Even if I could offer you something you would think worthy of reading, It couldn’t be done in this forum / format anyway, not in any detail.

That is because Dropbear lives in a Black and white world with no grey. You could say he is dogmatic.

PermeateFree said:

Aquila said:

Dropbear said:

The thing is you vehemently state you’re not into homoeopathy but then state you’re interested in astrology…

I don’t understand an each way bet like that

It’s not an each way bet.
You can’t understand because, maybe you don’t want too.
You have already decided in your mind that astrology is rubbish.

Because you require hard scientific evidence for the validity of astrology, which I am unable to provide.
Even if I could offer you something you would think worthy of reading, It couldn’t be done in this forum / format anyway, not in any detail.

That is because Dropbear lives in a Black and white world with no grey. You could say he is dogmatic.

I say no because he closely matches my forum & personality type profile.

I investigated astrology when I was younger (and I’ve always been younger) – both natal and mundane astrology. I also investigated tarot and alchemy and their relationship to astrology (most people – even among those claiming to be experts, or to have studied any of these fields in any depth – are completely ignorant of these relationships.) I also studied sorcery, witchcraft, demonology, ritual magic, gematria, and notarikon. I delved quite deeply into each of these fields, and come to the conclusion that they all suffer from the same problems:
they don’t work;
different authorities in each field offer different (frequently contrary) interpretations for the same configurations – all claiming to be right. This is one of the most compelling reasons I can offer for rejecting the whole subject; the experts on the subject contradict each other in their interpretations, despite claiming to understand what’s going on.

You’re wrong about quantum physics being like astrology, btw, Aquila. While there are differing interpretations for the Schroedinger Equations, they’re testable and falsifiable, and have been tested. We regularly use devices (including the computer you’re reading this on.) The same can’t be said of astrology (or any of the other mystic subjects named above, for that matter.)

Wocky said:

You’re wrong about quantum physics being like astrology, btw, Aquila.

You are the second person in this thread to misrepresent my comments.

I did not say quantum physics is like astrology, go back and read my original post relating to the above

>>different authorities in each field offer different (frequently contrary) interpretations for the same configurations <<

This is the best refutation of iridology too.

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

still meaningless though aquilla no matter how “complex’ it is made.

:)
It depends on ones interests, perspective and understanding.

I could say the same thing about the complex formulas involved with quantum mechanics
(I’m interested in physics & other hard sciences, btw)

Aquila said:

Wocky said:

You’re wrong about quantum physics being like astrology, btw, Aquila.

You are the second person in this thread to misrepresent my comments.

I did not say quantum physics is like astrology, go back and read my original post relating to the above

Fair enough. My interpretation was wrong. I apologise.

I’ll make it easy for you, Wocky….

Aquila said:

ChrispenEvan said:

I could say the same thing about the complex formulas involved with quantum mechanics

and you’d be wrong to compare the two. quantum mechanics is one of the most accurate predictive tools we have. to compare it with the ‘complexity” of astrology makes you claim to be interested in science etc hollow.

I wasn’t making a direct comparison between astrology and quantum mechanics, I simply stated that, the complex formulas of quantum mechanics could be as meaningless to me (or anyone), as the formulas involved with astrology are meaningless to a physicist (or anyone).

I’ve studied both and have an interest in both (physics / science & astrology)

buffy said:

>>different authorities in each field offer different (frequently contrary) interpretations for the same configurations <<

This is the best refutation of iridology too.

You wouldn’t be the first optomerist I’ve heard say that.

However, they don’t correlate in any definition of similar field.

optometrist?

Wocky said:

Fair enough. My interpretation was wrong. I apologise.

Cheers, it’s cool.

It’s true that astrology cannot be quantified like the workings of an atom can, but the lack of hard scientific evidence for the proof for astrology isn’t enough to disprove its usefulness or validity.

I’d actually like to see some science get stuck into astrology, as I have challenged astrologers myself, and taro readers, and psychics.
There are plenty of shonks, charlatans and delusional individuals out and about making all sorts of claims.

Dropbear prolly thinks I’m one of them kooky woo woo people now!
My reputation on here is SUNK, man……I’m sunk

I DON’T belief in homoeopathy….ok……just take my word for it!

)

One aspect that I like about astrology is how it relates to our solar system, there is a lot of maths involved and it has also helped me understand actual physical & scientific aspects of our solar system.

eg: the precession of the equinoxes (the wobble in Earths axial rotation), planetary orbits, eclipses and many other science / astronomy related aspects.

Aquila said:

Wocky said:

Fair enough. My interpretation was wrong. I apologise.

Cheers, it’s cool.

It’s true that astrology cannot be quantified like the workings of an atom can, but the lack of hard scientific evidence for the proof for astrology isn’t enough to disprove its usefulness or validity.

I’d actually like to see some science get stuck into astrology, as I have challenged astrologers myself, and taro readers, and psychics.
There are plenty of shonks, charlatans and delusional individuals out and about making all sorts of claims.

Dropbear prolly thinks I’m one of them kooky woo woo people now!
My reputation on here is SUNK, man……I’m sunk

I DON’T belief in homoeopathy….ok……just take my word for it!

)

One aspect that I like about astrology is how it relates to our solar system, there is a lot of maths involved and it has also helped me understand actual physical & scientific aspects of our solar system.

eg: the precession of the equinoxes (the wobble in Earths axial rotation), planetary orbits, eclipses and many other science / astronomy related aspects.

Have you noticed that scientists have taken the time to research aboriginal astrology/astronomy?

There is some research:

http://scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_04_1_mcgrew.pdf

Aquila said:

Wocky said:

Fair enough. My interpretation was wrong. I apologise.

Cheers, it’s cool.

It’s true that astrology cannot be quantified like the workings of an atom can, but the lack of hard scientific evidence for the proof for astrology isn’t enough to disprove its usefulness or validity.

I’d actually like to see some science get stuck into astrology, as I have challenged astrologers myself, and taro readers, and psychics.
There are plenty of shonks, charlatans and delusional individuals out and about making all sorts of claims.

Dropbear prolly thinks I’m one of them kooky woo woo people now!
My reputation on here is SUNK, man……I’m sunk

I DON’T belief in homoeopathy….ok……just take my word for it!

)

One aspect that I like about astrology is how it relates to our solar system, there is a lot of maths involved and it has also helped me understand actual physical & scientific aspects of our solar system.

eg: the precession of the equinoxes (the wobble in Earths axial rotation), planetary orbits, eclipses and many other science / astronomy related aspects.

I wouldn’t worry too much about what people think of you.. it’s just the internet after all

Wocky said:

I delved quite deeply into each of these fields, and come to the conclusion that they all suffer from the same problems: they don’t work; different authorities in each field offer different (frequently contrary) interpretations for the same configurations – all claiming to be right. This is one of the most compelling reasons I can offer for rejecting the whole subject; the experts on the subject contradict each other in their interpretations, despite claiming to understand what’s going on.

Interesting observation.
Didn’t science suffer from similar issues in its infancy?

With respect to astrology, I understand what you’re saying about astrology and differing interpretations, some may be contradictory for many probable reasons.
There are quite a few different types of astrology and various standards of teaching, this could go some way into explaining the discrepancies you raised.

Science has become well established and well structured in formal academia, the same can’t be said for astrology….even though it may be popular with many in the western world, it is still out on the fringe, so to speak., so it’s understandable the scientific elite (or others) may shrug it off as invalid or of no significance.
This is something that would need to be addressed by the professional astrological societies or astrology schools.

Interesting read:

http://theconversation.com/some-people-think-astrology-is-a-science-heres-why-28642

Arts said:

I wouldn’t worry too much about what people think of you.. it’s just the internet after all

land of no fences?

Grant Luhrs wrote a song about that.

“different authorities in each field offer different (frequently contrary) interpretations for the same configurations – all claiming to be right.”

doctors can do that too though.. albeit with less inconsistency, but different diagnosis can come from same symptoms..

Arts said:

“different authorities in each field offer different (frequently contrary) interpretations for the same configurations – all claiming to be right.”

doctors can do that too though.. albeit with less inconsistency, but different diagnosis can come from same symptoms..

or completely miss others.

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

“different authorities in each field offer different (frequently contrary) interpretations for the same configurations – all claiming to be right.”

doctors can do that too though.. albeit with less inconsistency, but different diagnosis can come from same symptoms..

or completely miss others.

If you would have asked me, though she was visiting doctors quite regularly. For many years I would have said she has some sort of cancer eating away at her. Then all of a sudden, that’s what she has.

One aspect that I like about astrology is how it relates to our solar system, there is a lot of maths involved and it has also helped me understand actual physical & scientific aspects of our solar system.

eg: the precession of the equinoxes (the wobble in Earths axial rotation), planetary orbits, eclipses and many other science / astronomy related aspects.

and you could have learnt that without the woo. just think how much further ahead you’d be.

ChrispenEvan said:

One aspect that I like about astrology is how it relates to our solar system, there is a lot of maths involved and it has also helped me understand actual physical & scientific aspects of our solar system.

eg: the precession of the equinoxes (the wobble in Earths axial rotation), planetary orbits, eclipses and many other science / astronomy related aspects.

and you could have learnt that without the woo. just think how much further ahead you’d be.

no. learning that is the same. ie; the woo is something to do with the spare brain cells.

Didn’t science suffer from similar issues in its infancy?

and how long has astrology been going? isn’t it grown up yet?

ChrispenEvan said:

Didn’t science suffer from similar issues in its infancy?

and how long has astrology been going? isn’t it grown up yet?

Apparently it matured, perhaps before Pythagoras?

so it’s understandable the scientific elite (or others) may shrug it off as invalid or of no significance.

who are the “elite”? anyway it is up to astrologers to show that it works not scientists. scientists have better things to do. also which branch of science do you suggest do these experiments?

no, you waste time learning woo. better spend the time with real stuff.

ChrispenEvan said:

which branch of science do you suggest do these experiments?

The science that steps beyond the realm of your conscious thought. Of this you have cinvinced us all.

so a couple of thousand years, plus. and they still haven’t got their shit together. meanwhile science has, in it’s modern format and discipline, been going for a few hundred years. and see where that has got us.

ChrispenEvan said:

no, you waste time learning woo. better spend the time with real stuff.

How can we sort the wheat from the chaff without getting our hands dirty?

wibble.

ChrispenEvan said:

so a couple of thousand years, plus. and they still haven’t got their shit together. meanwhile science has, in it’s modern format and discipline, been going for a few hundred years. and see where that has got us.

I am aware. You don’t need to hammer it into my head.

ChrispenEvan said:

wibble.

wobbling is interesting.

ChrispenEvan said:

no, you waste time learning woo. better spend the time with real stuff.

sometimes knowing what you are arguing against is valid

know thy enemy

unless you’re doing original research then you see what other scientists have done. even if doing original research you still look to the field. planetary dynamics is fairly well understood at the level required for astrolgy.

ChrispenEvan said:

unless you’re doing original research then you see what other scientists have done. even if doing original research you still look to the field. planetary dynamics is fairly well understood at the level required for astrolgy.

so you are aware of the science done on how aboriginal mythology works with the night sky?

ChrispenEvan said:

One aspect that I like about astrology is how it relates to our solar system, there is a lot of maths involved and it has also helped me understand actual physical & scientific aspects of our solar system.

eg: the precession of the equinoxes (the wobble in Earths axial rotation), planetary orbits, eclipses and many other science / astronomy related aspects.

and you could have learnt that without the woo. just think how much further ahead you’d be.

chuckle
This is a very emotive comment which lacks logic.

Like I’ve already stated, and I’ll say it again…..

I also have a strong interest in hard science, I studied to become an electronics technician, I’ve also formally studied renewable energy technology, which included modules on physics, fluid dynamics and electrical theory….

sometimes knowing what you are arguing against is valid

this is more about self improvement rather than arguing a position. i agree that if you wish to have a in depth argument then you need to know thy enemy.

no, because it isn’t something i am interested in.

ChrispenEvan said:

sometimes knowing what you are arguing against is valid

this is more about self improvement rather than arguing a position. i agree that if you wish to have a in depth argument then you need to know thy enemy.

Enemies are always apparent. Indeed it is up to yourself how you grade their attack as to its worth.

I don’t believe in astrology as a ‘diagnostic tool’ for human behaviour .. I do think that people like to ‘categorise’ though. and that the easier the categories the wider the audience. I think what most people are scared of is not understanding that humans and human responses to ay give situation is a spectrum so huge it’s almost unpredictable. And that frightens the crap out of people

This is a very emotive comment which lacks logic.

the logic is self evident. time spent learning woo is time not spent learning something real.

ChrispenEvan said:

no, because it isn’t something i am interested in.

Science can often be too specific.

science has got to a position where it has to be specific. it doesn’t mean the scientists doing that science have a narrow world view. the reason being is that to have a narrow view limits your chance of finding something new.

Arts said:

I don’t believe in astrology as a ‘diagnostic tool’ for human behaviour .. I do think that people like to ‘categorise’ though. and that the easier the categories the wider the audience. I think what most people are scared of is not understanding that humans and human responses to ay give situation is a spectrum so huge it’s almost unpredictable. And that frightens the crap out of people

Aboriginal comprehension of the sky isn’t astrology and it isn’t astronomy. It is about the dark space between the highlights of the above.

ChrispenEvan said:

science has got to a position where it has to be specific. it doesn’t mean the scientists doing that science have a narrow world view. the reason being is that to have a narrow view limits your chance of finding something new.

Read what I said about aboriginal science of the night sky.

ChrispenEvan said:

so it’s understandable the scientific elite (or others) may shrug it off as invalid or of no significance.

who are the “elite”? anyway it is up to astrologers to show that it works not scientists. scientists have better things to do. also which branch of science do you suggest do these experiments?

LOL
Yeah, and I made exactly the same suggestion, but you conveniently left that out.

Which branch of science?… that is something for professional astrologers and professional scientists to discuss, I’d say

i have….and?

ChrispenEvan said:

i have….and?

Science is specific.. and I showed you that.

and you’ve had over 2000 years to show that it works. and haven’t.

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

i have….and?

Science is specific.. and I showed you that.

If you ned to comprehend, read up on the scxience done.

you are confusing science papers with science. science isn’t specific in that sense.

ChrispenEvan said:

and you’ve had over 2000 years to show that it works. and haven’t.

I haven’t and you know it. However, that’s not what i’m talking about.

mythology isn’t one of my interests these days.

ChrispenEvan said:

you are confusing science papers with science. science isn’t specific in that sense.

No confusion. Science simply recognises. It doesn’t prove.

that was directed at aquila.

ChrispenEvan said:

mythology isn’t one of my interests these days.

If it isn’t on paper?

ChrispenEvan said:

that was directed at aquila.

I know but I did choose to use it.

Wiki tells us that scientist have investigated astrology.here’s just one example

“Astrology has not demonstrated its effectiveness in controlled studies and has no scientific validity.:85 Where it has made falsifiable predictions under controlled conditions, they have been falsified.:424 One famous experiment included 28 astrologers who were asked to match over a hundred natal charts to psychological profiles generated by the California Psychological Inventory (CPI) questionnaire. The double-blind experimental protocol used in this study was agreed upon by a group of physicists and a group of astrologers nominated by the National Council for Geocosmic Research, who advised the experimenters, helped ensure that the test was fair:117:420 and helped draw the central proposition of natal astrology to be tested.:419 They also chose 26 out of the 28 eight astrologers for the tests (two more volunteered afterwards).:420 The study, published in Nature in 1985, found that predictions based on natal astrology were no better than chance, and that the testing “…clearly refutes the astrological hypothesis.”“

ChrispenEvan said:

This is a very emotive comment which lacks logic.

the logic is self evident. time spent learning woo is time not spent learning something real.

you are making assumptions that you can’t prove.
The comment lacks logic

How can you be sure that if I didn’t study astrology that this time would be spent learning something real (something else)
For all you know, I might have sat on the verandah drinking beer instead.

It should be noted that I have not defended astrology. I have tried to make apparent that the oldest historically observed vision of the night sky took the dark matter to be of more import.

maybe you need to look beyond yourself and at the wider picture that my comments concern, aquila.

ChrispenEvan said:

maybe you need to look beyond yourself and at the wider picture that my comments concern, aquila.

No worries. I do that. It is you that I am more concerned about.

aboriginal ‘dark matter’ mustn’t be confused with what we call dark matter.

ChrispenEvan said:

aboriginal ‘dark matter’ mustn’t be confused with what we call dark matter.

Note: You had to say that.

I bet shebs is glad he started this thread

you appear from your comments here roughie to have enough on your plate without concerning yourself with me. i don’t require it.

sibeen is a fink.

it is like someone saying they will pray for you. it is creepy.

Arts said:

I bet shebs is glad he started this thread

ditto

http://muller.lbl.gov/papers/Astrology-Carlson.pdf

ChrispenEvan said:

it is like someone saying they will pray for you. it is creepy.

better than “I will prey on you”

thing is PJ no matter how many studies are done they will never be enough or they wont be quite right. they will always be some reason to dismiss them. all psuedoscience disciplines work on this premise.

ChrispenEvan said:

you appear from your comments here roughie to have enough on your plate without concerning yourself with me. i don’t require it.

only keeping up with what happens, does help with sanity control.

not that sanity is an issue but then it isn’t like I have a big social circle.

surely creating an experiment to test the validity of astrological predictions would be a easy-peezy.

Astrology makes prediction
Observation records if prediction is true
Repeat

If astrological predictions were even close to the mark the observations would speak for themselves.

Arts said:

I bet shebs is glad he started this thread

Very proud. At this rate it may even turn into this forum’s longest ever thread.

sibeen said:

Arts said:

I bet shebs is glad he started this thread

Very proud. At this rate it may even turn into this forum’s longest ever thread.

only if you jump in here and there to gee us up like…

My stars today told me to stay away from circular saws.
It worked.

you can thank me later sibeen.

Peak Warming Man said:

My stars today told me to stay away from circular saws.
It worked.

Does this mean somebody else didn’t?

diddly-squat said:

surely creating an experiment to test the validity of astrological predictions would be a easy-peezy.

Astrology makes prediction
Observation records if prediction is true
Repeat

If astrological predictions were even close to the mark the observations would speak for themselves.

From the same wiki page

“Testing the validity of astrology can be difficult, because there is no consensus amongst astrologers as to what astrology is or what it can predict.”

i’ll put that in the correct thread to boost sibeen’s cred.

geez MV that paper was from 1985, sooooo old.

sorry channelling the psuedoscience proponents.

;-)