According to court documents, baseballer Alex Rodriguez was instructed to use “mid stream urine” (ie not urine at the start or end of a flow) in drug tests to avoid detection.
How does that work? Is there gravitic distillation within the bladder so that drugs rise to the top or sink to the bottom?
dv said:
According to court documents, baseballer Alex Rodriguez was instructed to use “mid stream urine” (ie not urine at the start or end of a flow) in drug tests to avoid detection.How does that work? Is there gravitic distillation within the bladder so that drugs rise to the top or sink to the bottom?
Don’t know about avoiding detection but this is generally done to avoid bacterial contamination.
Perhaps it is so that any traces can be flushed, in the case of drug detection.
roughbarked said:
dv said:
According to court documents, baseballer Alex Rodriguez was instructed to use “mid stream urine” (ie not urine at the start or end of a flow) in drug tests to avoid detection.How does that work? Is there gravitic distillation within the bladder so that drugs rise to the top or sink to the bottom?
Don’t know about avoiding detection but this is generally done to avoid bacterial contamination.
Perhaps it is so that any traces can be flushed, in the case of drug detection.
The problem with first-flush urine is that it can wash bacteria, flora and debris off the skin and into the sample, leading to a false-positive or inaccurate result, which in turn can lead to retesting or unnecessary broad-spectrum antibiotic prescribing. http://www.news-medical.net/news/20130522/Mid-stream-urine-collection-system-an-interview-with-Giovanna-Forte-Managing-Director-Forte-Medical.aspx
Mind, changing direction midstream is always a messy process.
Just to be clear:
Bosch were supplying Rodriguez with banned drugs and were advising him on how to avoid detection.
To be clear, I’m no expert butnat a guess, could it be to reduce the chance of drugs residues being more concentrated than they would be otherwise, considering that bacteria can be on the skin and urethra, so also could be drug residues.
Otherwise, I’m as in the dark as anyone on this.
http://www.informedhealthonline.org/understanding-urine-tests.2212.en.html
dv said:
How does that work?
A better question would be “does that work?”
DVSBL = No!
I have submitted many samples for testing, often on request, and have been told quite a few times to give a midstream sample by the person requesting the same!e…
maybe he had the clap and the dr was asking for a ‘mid scream urination’ sample…
furious said:
I have submitted many samples for testing, often on request, and have been told quite a few times to give a midstream sample by the person requesting the same!e…
Roughy outlined some of the reasons for this, but the question in this thread is how does mid-stream urine samples help one avoid drug detection? The answer is, it doesn’t.
esselte said:
furious said:
I have submitted many samples for testing, often on request, and have been told quite a few times to give a midstream sample by the person requesting the same!e…
Roughy outlined some of the reasons for this, but the question in this thread is how does mid-stream urine samples help one avoid drug detection? The answer is, it doesn’t.
Well, it would work if there are no drugs to be detected.
Don’t cross the streams
Dropbear said:
Don’t cross the streams
Shouldn’t that be. Don’t cross streams in mid horse?
esselte said:
furious said:
I have submitted many samples for testing, often on request, and have been told quite a few times to give a midstream sample by the person requesting the same!e…
Roughy outlined some of the reasons for this, but the question in this thread is how does mid-stream urine samples help one avoid drug detection? The answer is, it doesn’t.
If people are using banned or illegal drugs and they aren’t detected by urine tests then someone(s) is helping them to do so. If they aren’t observed then its a lot easier and they can use someone elses urine and warm it up to pass the temperature test. The path labs have all sorts of tests to detect adulteration. If a court has ordered you to do you urine tests and you cheat and get caught its far more serious than supplying a dirty sample. What some lawyers do when clients are caught with dirty samples is claim the chain of custody was broken and how can you prove its my clients samples, that then means the person doing the collection has to front court as a witness and you cannot prove beyond all doubt the sample wasn’t swapped or mislabelled.
Cymek said:
esselte said:
furious said:
I have submitted many samples for testing, often on request, and have been told quite a few times to give a midstream sample by the person requesting the same!e…
Roughy outlined some of the reasons for this, but the question in this thread is how does mid-stream urine samples help one avoid drug detection? The answer is, it doesn’t.
If people are using banned or illegal drugs and they aren’t detected by urine tests then someone(s) is helping them to do so. If they aren’t observed then its a lot easier and they can use someone elses urine and warm it up to pass the temperature test. The path labs have all sorts of tests to detect adulteration. If a court has ordered you to do you urine tests and you cheat and get caught its far more serious than supplying a dirty sample. What some lawyers do when clients are caught with dirty samples is claim the chain of custody was broken and how can you prove its my clients samples, that then means the person doing the collection has to front court as a witness and you cannot prove beyond all doubt the sample wasn’t swapped or mislabelled.
Couldn’t one carry a clean sample of one’s own urine into the test and simply take it out of the pocket and pour it into the labeled sample bottle
dv said:
According to court documents, baseballer Alex Rodriguez was instructed to use “mid stream urine” (ie not urine at the start or end of a flow) in drug tests to avoid detection.How does that work? Is there gravitic distillation within the bladder so that drugs rise to the top or sink to the bottom?
Assumed that contaminants are washed out in initial part of stream, mid stream should be least likely to have contamination. It’s the current clinical standard so deviating from this would allow lawyer types to argue it was an inappropriate sample if initial or end flow sample.
I mean I am assuming Bosch had some reason to give this advice.
dv said:
I mean I am assuming Bosch had some reason to give this advice.
just taking the piss…
roughbarked said:
Cymek said:
esselte said:Roughy outlined some of the reasons for this, but the question in this thread is how does mid-stream urine samples help one avoid drug detection? The answer is, it doesn’t.
If people are using banned or illegal drugs and they aren’t detected by urine tests then someone(s) is helping them to do so. If they aren’t observed then its a lot easier and they can use someone elses urine and warm it up to pass the temperature test. The path labs have all sorts of tests to detect adulteration. If a court has ordered you to do you urine tests and you cheat and get caught its far more serious than supplying a dirty sample. What some lawyers do when clients are caught with dirty samples is claim the chain of custody was broken and how can you prove its my clients samples, that then means the person doing the collection has to front court as a witness and you cannot prove beyond all doubt the sample wasn’t swapped or mislabelled.
Couldn’t one carry a clean sample of one’s own urine into the test and simply take it out of the pocket and pour it into the labeled sample bottle
It has to pass a temperature test which should be done immediately after the sample is handed to the collector
Cymek said:
roughbarked said:
Cymek said:If people are using banned or illegal drugs and they aren’t detected by urine tests then someone(s) is helping them to do so. If they aren’t observed then its a lot easier and they can use someone elses urine and warm it up to pass the temperature test. The path labs have all sorts of tests to detect adulteration. If a court has ordered you to do you urine tests and you cheat and get caught its far more serious than supplying a dirty sample. What some lawyers do when clients are caught with dirty samples is claim the chain of custody was broken and how can you prove its my clients samples, that then means the person doing the collection has to front court as a witness and you cannot prove beyond all doubt the sample wasn’t swapped or mislabelled.
Couldn’t one carry a clean sample of one’s own urine into the test and simply take it out of the pocket and pour it into the labeled sample bottle
It has to pass a temperature test which should be done immediately after the sample is handed to the collector
you could put a false bladder up your rectum to get the correct temp and put clean urine in that
Cymek said:
roughbarked said:
Cymek said:If people are using banned or illegal drugs and they aren’t detected by urine tests then someone(s) is helping them to do so. If they aren’t observed then its a lot easier and they can use someone elses urine and warm it up to pass the temperature test. The path labs have all sorts of tests to detect adulteration. If a court has ordered you to do you urine tests and you cheat and get caught its far more serious than supplying a dirty sample. What some lawyers do when clients are caught with dirty samples is claim the chain of custody was broken and how can you prove its my clients samples, that then means the person doing the collection has to front court as a witness and you cannot prove beyond all doubt the sample wasn’t swapped or mislabelled.
Couldn’t one carry a clean sample of one’s own urine into the test and simply take it out of the pocket and pour it into the labeled sample bottle
It has to pass a temperature test which should be done immediately after the sample is handed to the collector
Is fresh piss warmer than some you’ve had in your pocket?
CrazyNeutrino said:
Cymek said:
roughbarked said:Couldn’t one carry a clean sample of one’s own urine into the test and simply take it out of the pocket and pour it into the labeled sample bottle
It has to pass a temperature test which should be done immediately after the sample is handed to the collector
you could put a false bladder up your rectum to get the correct temp and put clean urine in that
You can buy all sorts of gadgets to try and cheat but eventually most people will get caught especially if you are using recreational drugs as you could go and do a test high and mess up. Some of the less smart ones I remember from years ago tried using tea and Detol as the colour was the same. I am not sure how it works in the sports arena but with Corrective Services the collector has to be able to see the urine stream going into the collection container and if they think something is suspicious are allowed to ask to the person to supply a second sample within a reasonable time frame and can even ask them to turn around so you can see them in all their glory. People try using fake penises, tubes running underneath their own penis with all squeeze pump hidden to force it out and women use condoms filled with urine hidden in their vaginas and burst it into the container.
roughbarked said:
Cymek said:
roughbarked said:Couldn’t one carry a clean sample of one’s own urine into the test and simply take it out of the pocket and pour it into the labeled sample bottle
It has to pass a temperature test which should be done immediately after the sample is handed to the collector
Is fresh piss warmer than some you’ve had in your pocket?
The Australian standard is 33 – 38 degress Celsius
Cymek said:
CrazyNeutrino said:
Cymek said:It has to pass a temperature test which should be done immediately after the sample is handed to the collector
you could put a false bladder up your rectum to get the correct temp and put clean urine in that
You can buy all sorts of gadgets to try and cheat but eventually most people will get caught especially if you are using recreational drugs as you could go and do a test high and mess up. Some of the less smart ones I remember from years ago tried using tea and Detol as the colour was the same. I am not sure how it works in the sports arena but with Corrective Services the collector has to be able to see the urine stream going into the collection container and if they think something is suspicious are allowed to ask to the person to supply a second sample within a reasonable time frame and can even ask them to turn around so you can see them in all their glory. People try using fake penises, tubes running underneath their own penis with all squeeze pump hidden to force it out and women use condoms filled with urine hidden in their vaginas and burst it into the container.
You are watched urinating by an observer and there are at least two others that take the sample in professional sport
Cymek said:
CrazyNeutrino said:
Cymek said:It has to pass a temperature test which should be done immediately after the sample is handed to the collector
you could put a false bladder up your rectum to get the correct temp and put clean urine in that
You can buy all sorts of gadgets to try and cheat but eventually most people will get caught especially if you are using recreational drugs as you could go and do a test high and mess up. Some of the less smart ones I remember from years ago tried using tea and Detol as the colour was the same. I am not sure how it works in the sports arena but with Corrective Services the collector has to be able to see the urine stream going into the collection container and if they think something is suspicious are allowed to ask to the person to supply a second sample within a reasonable time frame and can even ask them to turn around so you can see them in all their glory. People try using fake penises, tubes running underneath their own penis with all squeeze pump hidden to force it out and women use condoms filled with urine hidden in their vaginas and burst it into the container.
the only way around that is an operation with a false bladder inside connected to the outside pipe and quiet mechanism to pump it out
cost a bit though and a doctor willing to do it and enough clean urine for a second sample