Can humans get sufficient calcium without cows milk?
Yes.
DVSBL
bob(from black rock) said:
Can humans get sufficient calcium without cows milk?
Well since there are many humans that are both alive and not drinking cows’ milk, I’d say the answer was probably yes.
And I’m reasonably happy with my Red Dragon Coat.
14 Non-Dairy Foods That Are High in Calcium
http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20845429,00.html
The Rev Dodgson said:
bob(from black rock) said:
Can humans get sufficient calcium without cows milk?
Well since there are many humans that are both alive and not drinking cows’ milk, I’d say the answer was probably yes.
Good point, so where do they get their Ca ?
Curiously enough, the calcium in cows’ milk doesn’t seem to be absorbed by the human body; I read several studies last year, the earliest about ten years old, the latest a metastudy analysing the results of several similar studies, reporting that the amount of fat in the faeces of people who don’t have dairy products in their diet is dramatically lower (half or less) than those whose diet included dairy products. Both groups had the same fat intake. There was a suggestion that the calcium in dairy products was binding to the fat, so one group fed two groups the same amount of fat, but gave one group calcium supplements. The faeces of those taking calcium supplements contained more fat than the other group.
I haven’t got the articles handy, but could probably find them if required.
I’m not quite following that btm. They were measuring fat in the faeces. How do you then come up with the calcium not being absorbed? You would need to know if the calcium was going through or not. It might be stopping the fat being absorbed but being absorbed itself.
Someone suggested that it might be the Ca binding to the fat (though I don’t know what their chain of reasoning for that was), so one group of experimenters fed and monitored two groups; the participants in both groups had no dairy products in their diet, but both groups consumed the same amount of fat each day. One group was given Ca supplements; the other was given a placebo. The group that had the supplements excreted at least twice as much fat as the other group. After several weeks, the groups were swapped, so the formerly placebo group had the supplements, and vice versa. Once again, the fat excreted by the group now on Ca supplements was more than double that of those now on placebos.
The paper’s conclusions suggested that this was evidence that the Ca was binding to the fat, although there are other possibilities. I was making an unscientific generalisation.
btm said:
Someone suggested that it might be the Ca binding to the fat (though I don’t know what their chain of reasoning for that was), so one group of experimenters fed and monitored two groups; the participants in both groups had no dairy products in their diet, but both groups consumed the same amount of fat each day. One group was given Ca supplements; the other was given a placebo. The group that had the supplements excreted at least twice as much fat as the other group. After several weeks, the groups were swapped, so the formerly placebo group had the supplements, and vice versa. Once again, the fat excreted by the group now on Ca supplements was more than double that of those now on placebos.The paper’s conclusions suggested that this was evidence that the Ca was binding to the fat, although there are other possibilities. I was making an unscientific generalisation.
Still doesn’t make sense unless you know the calcium is going through. And that is not in the explanation so far. You need to be checking calcium in and calcium out, to see if that is a correlation. As I said, perhaps the calcium just stops the fat being absorbed and therefore excreted. Which could easily be put up as a reason to drink milk/calcium supplement.
Not enough information really.
All you are saying is that people who take calcium supplements poo more of the fat from their diet. You aren’t actually saying that the calcium is not absorbed.
Have you got a reference to the papers? Perhaps a look at the methods section would help.
buffy said:
Still doesn’t make sense unless you know the calcium is going through. And that is not in the explanation so far. You need to be checking calcium in and calcium out, to see if that is a correlation. As I said, perhaps the calcium just stops the fat being absorbed and therefore excreted. Which could easily be put up as a reason to drink milk/calcium supplement.Not enough information really.
I don’t recall whether they checked the Ca content of the faeces, and – as I said – I haven’t got the paper to hand ATM (and at this time on a Sunday night I’m not going to look it up :P). I can’t think offhand how else the Ca could inhibit the fat’s absorption, though.
This is probably your meta analysis. All it says is that the presence of calcium increases the fat content of poo. It says nothing at all about whether the calcium is absorbed by the body.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19493303
And a crossover study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18838979
Again, all they come up with is that the presence of calcium means more fat pooed out.
The suggestion that calcium is not absorbed is not there.
And a study comparing dairy calcium to supplements actually says it’s only the dairy that works. So it’s entirely possible it’s nothing to do with calcium at all, and something else in the dairy stuff.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17344487
Anyway. I’ll keep on drinking my milk.
buffy said:
And a study comparing dairy calcium to supplements actually says it’s only the dairy that works. So it’s entirely possible it’s nothing to do with calcium at all, and something else in the dairy stuff.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17344487
Anyway. I’ll keep on drinking my milk.
OK, my memory is faulty. I’ll have a look for the paper I referred to tomorrow. And I certainly would not suggest not drinking milk (it would be somewhat hypocritical for me to do so, anyway: for a while I was drinking 12L a day, though I’ve cut down in the last few years.) Thanks for looking those up, buffy.
water can contain plenty of calcium
12L!…seems excessive.
poikilotherm said:
12L!…seems excessive.
Not if you were a calf.
I think Rev shut this down in the third post.
Shit, there are millions of people who can’t safely consume cow’s milk.
The Rev Dodgson said:
bob(from black rock) said:
Can humans get sufficient calcium without cows milk?
Well since there are many humans that are both alive and not drinking cows’ milk, I’d say the answer was probably yes.
FTR, most commercial baby formulas are derived from cow’s milk, however you can get ones derived from goat’s milk or soy.
If one is pregnant and can’t drink milk (in my case, because it brought on nausea), there are calcium alternatives. If all else fails, the baby steals the calcium from mum’s bones to develop their own. It can lead to an increased risk of osteoporosis for the mum in later life.
Just thought that was interesting.
Divine Angel said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
bob(from black rock) said:
Can humans get sufficient calcium without cows milk?
Well since there are many humans that are both alive and not drinking cows’ milk, I’d say the answer was probably yes.
FTR, most commercial baby formulas are derived from cow’s milk, however you can get ones derived from goat’s milk or soy.
If one is pregnant and can’t drink milk (in my case, because it brought on nausea), there are calcium alternatives. If all else fails, the baby steals the calcium from mum’s bones to develop their own. It can lead to an increased risk of osteoporosis for the mum in later life.
Just thought that was interesting.
yea, no good comes from babies ;)
I only keep her because she’s cute.