wookiemeister said:

Maybe, maybe not.

wookiemeister said:

Who cares, it’s 3000 km away.

wookiemeister said:

My guess is that they are in Melbourne, shift them to Sydney and they would be their problem, it’s not rocket science.

I worked out why they are always banging on about speed here

theres something wrong with the tarmac and the way the roads are physically built

I find that it can be quite some time after rain has passed that water is still being flicked up by car tyres, it seems that the roads aren’t designed to drain the water properly, many of them are like it

the roads don’t have proper friction with the car tyres – the roads seem way too slippery, the ute I’m still using went into a skid lasting 3 seconds when travelling at 30km on an decline and the bloke infront put his brakes on

whenever the roads are wet there seems an awful lot of crashes

apart from the physical make up of the road – then you have god knows how many trains and trams crossing roads causing major traffic jams – the trains are a major problem with the transport system if they are perpetually crossing roads across the city

they lay down 10,000 houses and make sure the local roads are still the old country roads of 50 years back

the roads in Melbourne are like sponges for the water meaning leaving a fine layer of water for long periods

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In the inner city suburbs, the roads were not designed to carry the volumes of traffic that currently exist. I used to walk from Richmond to Prahran as it was faster than tram or car. Getting rid of kerbside parking on streets with trams would be a really good idea though. It’s one of the things I hate about driving in Melbourne. I can’t speak for the freeways as I haven’t spent much time on them, but they seem pretty much the same as freeways anywhere else in Australia.

When the roads are wet, the majority of drivers do not drive to the conditions. There are always more accidents in wet weather. This is not unique to Melbourne. Similarly excessive speed for the conditions is not unique to Melbourne. If you want to see wet roads with people driving too fast, come up to FNQ.

A three second skid?

In that time, you had time to lift your foot from the brake pedal and reapply. Several times. If this is a work vehicle, tell the boss it’s too old and to buy one with ABS. Heavy suspension with low load weight make utes more prone to locking up than a standard passenger car. You should bear this in mind when driving a ute and leave a larger braking distance. Especially in the wet.

The real problem with Melbourne roads is the attitude of the drivers on those roads. They do not drive to the conditions. They drive too fast and they often choose to drive when they have what is arguably the best metropolitan public transport system in Australia at their disposal.

Teleost said:

In the inner city suburbs, the roads were not designed to carry the volumes of traffic that currently exist. I used to walk from Richmond to Prahran as it was faster than tram or car. Getting rid of kerbside parking on streets with trams would be a really good idea though. It’s one of the things I hate about driving in Melbourne. I can’t speak for the freeways as I haven’t spent much time on them, but they seem pretty much the same as freeways anywhere else in Australia.

When the roads are wet, the majority of drivers do not drive to the conditions. There are always more accidents in wet weather. This is not unique to Melbourne. Similarly excessive speed for the conditions is not unique to Melbourne. If you want to see wet roads with people driving too fast, come up to FNQ.

A three second skid?

In that time, you had time to lift your foot from the brake pedal and reapply. Several times. If this is a work vehicle, tell the boss it’s too old and to buy one with ABS. Heavy suspension with low load weight make utes more prone to locking up than a standard passenger car. You should bear this in mind when driving a ute and leave a larger braking distance. Especially in the wet.

The real problem with Melbourne roads is the attitude of the drivers on those roads. They do not drive to the conditions. They drive too fast and they often choose to drive when they have what is arguably the best metropolitan public transport system in Australia at their disposal.

yes people should drive to the conditions equals less accidents

Teleost said:

In the inner city suburbs, the roads were not designed to carry the volumes of traffic that currently exist. I used to walk from Richmond to Prahran as it was faster than tram or car. Getting rid of kerbside parking on streets with trams would be a really good idea though. It’s one of the things I hate about driving in Melbourne. I can’t speak for the freeways as I haven’t spent much time on them, but they seem pretty much the same as freeways anywhere else in Australia.

When the roads are wet, the majority of drivers do not drive to the conditions. There are always more accidents in wet weather. This is not unique to Melbourne. Similarly excessive speed for the conditions is not unique to Melbourne. If you want to see wet roads with people driving too fast, come up to FNQ.

A three second skid?

In that time, you had time to lift your foot from the brake pedal and reapply. Several times. If this is a work vehicle, tell the boss it’s too old and to buy one with ABS. Heavy suspension with low load weight make utes more prone to locking up than a standard passenger car. You should bear this in mind when driving a ute and leave a larger braking distance. Especially in the wet.

The real problem with Melbourne roads is the attitude of the drivers on those roads. They do not drive to the conditions. They drive too fast and they often choose to drive when they have what is arguably the best metropolitan public transport system in Australia at their disposal.

Anti lock brakes don’t always mean a shorter braking distance, under some conditions they increase it, what they do do however is allow steering control.

the triton Mitsubishi I drive has ABS, I just floored the brake and let it do its magic, I had about less than a foot to spare.

the handling of the ute is terrible , as soon rain falls its like driving on ice

generally I see all kinds if crazy things, one old girl was driving on the wrong side of the roundabout a few months ago

You should move to London wookie.

They have beautiful roads there, very little traffic, and it hardly ever rains.

All speed limit signs should be changed to “drive to road conditions”.

Less than a week ago I sent a letter of complaint to VicRoads about Melbourne roads. But that was about a different issue.

For at least the past two years they have had traffic light synchronisation past Southland, not perfect but excellent, and the traffic along Nepean Hwy was flowing freely. Then, just a fortnight ago some dunderhead at VicRoads lost the synchronisation. The result was incredible congestion for a distance of at least 10 km in afternoon peak. The congestion spread to other roads as motorists tried to find a way around the blockage. In a nutshell, ALL of Sydney’s major roads have traffic light synchronization, but shockingly few Melbourne Roads do. Melbourne Roads that have never had traffic light synchronisation and urgently need it include St Kilda Rd, Punt Rd/Hoddle St, King St, Toorak Rd etc. The result is that the maximum traffic flow on Melbourne Roads causes them to clog up at only about 10% of the theoretical maximum traffic load.

The other stupid thing about melbourne traffic lights is that the right arrow comes on before the straight-through traffic. That gives TWO right turn periods for every set of traffic lights, during the arrow and on yellow.

Another speed-related issue in Melbourne is that the speed limits keep being revised downwards. Bolte Bridge started at 100 km/hr (I thought it should have been 110) but is now 80 km/hr except when it’s 60 km/hr. Calder Hwy similar. Sydney Rd and hundreds of other roads were 60 km/hr then reduced to 50 km/hr and now 40 km/hr. There’s a push from within VicRoads to reduce the speed limit of all 70 km/hr roads to 60 km/hr, I hope they’ll encounter a riot if they try. New 20 km/hr speed bumps are being added to roads that used to be 60 km/hr then 50 km/hr.

Then there’s the issue of width. All minor suburban roads in Melbourne are exactly the wrong width, fractionally too narrow to allow traffic both ways with parked cars on both sides. Even six inches wider would have cured this.

wookiemeister said:

I find that it can be quite some time after rain has passed that water is still being flicked up by car tyres, it seems that the roads aren’t designed to drain the water properly, many of them are like it. the roads don’t have proper friction with the car tyres – the roads seem way too slippery, the ute I’m still using went into a skid lasting 3 seconds when travelling at 30km on an decline and the bloke in front put his brakes on. Whenever the roads are wet there seems an awful lot of crashes

You need a new ute mate. There’s nothing wrong with the road surface that I’ve struck. The roads in Melbourne are less hilly, which makes drainage much more difficult than, for example Sydney. The drainage on all these roads started off good, but occasionally it blocks up.

wookiemeister said:

then you have god knows how many trains and trams crossing roads causing major traffic jams – the trains are a major problem with the transport system if they are perpetually crossing roads across the city

Every politician in Melbourne since the year dot has promised to fix the level crossing problem. RACV complains about it at least twice a year. Money has been allocated. I have’t seen an iota of construction work.

wookiemeister said:

they lay down 10,000 houses and make sure the local roads are still the old country roads of 50 years back

I didn’t know about this until wookiemeister moved to Melbourne. It’s not a problem unique to Melbourne – it’s going to kill Canberra. The problem seems to be that developers like narrow, curved, dead-end roads, with minimal connections to the pre-existing road network. That’s because it allows developers to sell the maximum number of different sized houses at maximum price. The suburb wookiemeister is in is so new that, not only doesn’t it appear in street maps, it doesn’t even exist in Google Earth. The council has insisted that all streets are wide enough and two-ended, but has totally failed to ensure adequate connections between these 10,000 new houses and Melbourne city centre.

The Rev Dodgson said:

You should move to London wookie.

They have beautiful roads there, very little traffic, and it hardly ever rains.

Masterful

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You should move to London wookie.

They have beautiful roads there, very little traffic, and it hardly ever rains.

Masterful

Re: whats wrong with melbournes roads

apostrophes, question mark.

People are too scared to use apostrophes on the Internet, now.

mollwollfumble said:

The problem seems to be that developers like narrow, curved, dead-end roads, with minimal connections to the pre-existing road network. That’s because it allows developers to sell the maximum number of different sized houses at maximum price.

I thought it was because the Australia Model Code for Residential Development, released back in the early nineties, strongly recommends narrow curved roads as a method of restraining maximum possible vehicle speeds in low-medium density residential streets?

Dropbear said:

People are too scared to use apostrophes on the Internet, now.

Apostrophe’s what?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

People are too scared to use apostrophes on the Internet, now.

Apostrophe’s what?

He’s that Greek bloke.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

People are too scared to use apostrophes on the Internet, now.

Apostrophe’s what?

who is this apostrophe and how do I receive his newsletter ?

wallan is on its way to being whacked good by the development , to the north of the original town they are building MORE houses.

to build right up to a major highway they have erected huge walls to shield the housing estate from the traffic noise. my bets are in the end you’ll have huge lengths of the highway effectively walled off from view

from everything I see , my guess seymour is next in the cross hairs

mollwollfumble said:

wookiemeister said:

the roads don’t have proper friction with the car tyres – the roads seem way too slippery, the ute I’m still using went into a skid lasting 3 seconds when travelling at 30km on an decline and the bloke in front put his brakes on. Whenever the roads are wet there seems an awful lot of crashes

You need a new ute mate. There’s nothing wrong with the road surface that I’ve struck.

Perhaps I spoke too soon, the road surface of Melbourne roads has the same composition as that of, for example Sydney roads. ie. crushed basalt aggregate in tar. But thinking about it, the crushed basalt used in Sydney is larger and more angular. The net result would be that Melbourne road surfaces are significantly quieter and produce significantly less wear on car tyres, but on the other hand wouldn’t shed water as well. The same tends to be true of concrete roads, the concrete road surfaces in Melbourne tend to be smoother (less noisy but worse water shedding) than those in Sydney.

With light rain after a dry spell in Melbourne, my tyres have a habit of spinning wildly as I leave the first set of traffic lights on the journey. But I’ve never had skidding in wet weather here while braking.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

wookiemeister said:

the roads don’t have proper friction with the car tyres – the roads seem way too slippery, the ute I’m still using went into a skid lasting 3 seconds when travelling at 30km on an decline and the bloke in front put his brakes on. Whenever the roads are wet there seems an awful lot of crashes

You need a new ute mate. There’s nothing wrong with the road surface that I’ve struck.

Perhaps I spoke too soon, the road surface of Melbourne roads has the same composition as that of, for example Sydney roads. ie. crushed basalt aggregate in tar. But thinking about it, the crushed basalt used in Sydney is larger and more angular. The net result would be that Melbourne road surfaces are significantly quieter and produce significantly less wear on car tyres, but on the other hand wouldn’t shed water as well. The same tends to be true of concrete roads, the concrete road surfaces in Melbourne tend to be smoother (less noisy but worse water shedding) than those in Sydney.

With light rain after a dry spell in Melbourne, my tyres have a habit of spinning wildly as I leave the first set of traffic lights on the journey. But I’ve never had skidding in wet weather here while braking.

even just driving back tonight the roads seem awfully slippery , this time was in another car

QLD roads seem much coarser, as you suggested for Sydney, it seems to give much more grip in the wet

I think they need to change the way they build roads here rather than keep cutting the road speed – I’d wager this is the real reason they are cutting road speed – someone has realised the road are way too smooth to give proper traction in the wet

the roads seem much flatter, tonight the water was forming in shallow sheets creating large mirrors on the road

they don’t use proper reflective paint on the roads here – just white paint.

the significant other quit her job because she felt it was just too dangerous driving back with the kid on normal roads around here

the camber of the road is virtually non existent on many roads – I think cutting the speed limits will help the situation given the condition of the road but you can expect travel times to soar, petrol use to soar and accidents to soar, more traffic on the road for longer time periods is guaranteed but the severity of the crash would be lessened

Some of our freeways have a 50mm topcoat of porous bitumen that allows water to drop through to a waterproof sub-layer, from where it sheds to the edge of the road, keeping the surface almost completely dry all the time. Then there’s low-noise mixtures with rubber granules, extra-sticky stuff with clay mixed through it, hot mix and cold mix and all sorts of specialised blends. One could almost think they’ve got scientists involved.

driving around most of the day I see trucks blowing tyres, people unable to stop in time

never seen a major crash just small bumps

I tend to avoid accidents because to tend not to tail gate – its just not worth the expense caused by the crash

One bit of road I drive on for a stretch of 500 metres is much much quieter than the road before or after. It may not have as much friction but it would be nice if there were more stretches like it.

AwesomeO said:

One bit of road I drive on for a stretch of 500 metres is much much quieter than the road before or after. It may not have as much friction but it would be nice if there were more stretches like it.

when it gets dark and wet things change rapidly on the roads here

And I recall the highways in the snowy mountains are nice and smooth as well.

wookiemeister said:

the significant other quit her job because she felt it was just too dangerous driving back with the kid on normal roads around here

Well that’s complete bullshit, Wook. Her absolute risk of death on Victorian roads 1 in 22,000 for any given year – lower than anywhere else in the whole world.

AwesomeO said:

One bit of road I drive on for a stretch of 500 metres is much much quieter than the road before or after. It may not have as much friction but it would be nice if there were more stretches like it.

Probably small particles and rubber in the blend. You would expect lower rolling resistance (and very slightly lower fuel use), too.

AwesomeO said:

And I recall the highways in the snowy mountains are nice and smooth as well.

yeah, first time driving on really slippery roads

its most dangerous in the first 5 minutes of snowfall

the last time I was up there from a previous experience I suddenly realised that it was time to stop the car get out and put snow chains on

strangely all traffic coming the other way had stopped as well – when I continued I found out why – there had been a stack as motorists had continued driving when they should have stopped and put chains on

Rule 303 said:

wookiemeister said:

the significant other quit her job because she felt it was just too dangerous driving back with the kid on normal roads around here

Well that’s complete bullshit, Wook. Her absolute risk of death on Victorian roads 1 in 22,000 for any given year – lower than anywhere else in the whole world.

not my decision – she felt that given the bad lighting, non existent reflective paint on most roads, heavy traffic, wet roads with no grip that she’d have an accident sooner or later – I have briefly mentioned my concerns but not very much at all

Rule 303 said:

Some of our freeways have a 50mm topcoat of porous bitumen that allows water to drop through to a waterproof sub-layer, from where it sheds to the edge of the road, keeping the surface almost completely dry all the time. Then there’s low-noise mixtures with rubber granules, extra-sticky stuff with clay mixed through it, hot mix and cold mix and all sorts of specialised blends. One could almost think they’ve got scientists involved.

Very interesting. I haven’t heard about any of those, so perhaps all are new in the past 30 years?

> I tend to avoid accidents because to tend not to tailgate – its just not worth the expense caused by the crash

I only started tailgating after moving to Melbourne. Keeps the traffic flowing much faster and more evenly if everyone tailgates. Only accidents I’ve had in Melbourne have been because of changes in lighting, like going under a bridge.

> the roads seem much flatter, the camber of the road is virtually non existent on many roads

Yes to both.

> they don’t use proper reflective paint on the roads here – just white paint.

No, it’s reflective, but in Melbourne they have better size control on the ballotini (glass spheres), it’s smaller and more uniform than I’ve seen in NSW. Resulting again in a smoother ride and less wear, but worse paint visibility in wet weather.

This is how bad the size control is that I’ve seen in NSW.

Did I ever tell you that I’ve sprayed the arse end of my car with reflective paint? To make it very visible to the car behind. Every car should have reflective paint on the rear. It eventually peeled off because it wasn’t the right type of paint.

Rule 303 said:

Some of our freeways have a 50mm topcoat of porous bitumen that allows water to drop through to a waterproof sub-layer, from where it sheds to the edge of the road, keeping the surface almost completely dry all the time. Then there’s low-noise mixtures with rubber granules, extra-sticky stuff with clay mixed through it, hot mix and cold mix and all sorts of specialised blends. One could almost think they’ve got scientists involved.

Or engineers anyway.

Rule 303 said:

wookiemeister said:

the significant other quit her job because she felt it was just too dangerous driving back with the kid on normal roads around here

Well that’s complete bullshit, Wook. Her absolute risk of death on Victorian roads 1 in 22,000 for any given year – lower than anywhere else in the whole world.

Are you sure?

I don’t doubt that Victorian roads are very safe by World standards, but I thought ACT had safer roads in Australia, and several other countries had lower accident rates as well.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Rule 303 said:

wookiemeister said:

the significant other quit her job because she felt it was just too dangerous driving back with the kid on normal roads around here

Well that’s complete bullshit, Wook. Her absolute risk of death on Victorian roads 1 in 22,000 for any given year – lower than anywhere else in the whole world.

Are you sure?

I don’t doubt that Victorian roads are very safe by World standards, but I thought ACT had safer roads in Australia, and several other countries had lower accident rates as well.

The month of May has the highest accident rate, Australia wide. The instructions are to drive to conditions. Any road will be more dangerous in wet weather.

A quick search suggests that San Marino has lowest death rate on roads, since no-one ever dies in traffic accidents there, followed by Norway.

If a country where it is cold dark and icy for half the year can have fewer road deaths than Australia, that suggests we still have room for considerable improvement.

mollwollfumble said:

Did I ever tell you that I’ve sprayed the arse end of my car with reflective paint? To make it very visible to the car behind. Every car should have reflective paint on the rear. It eventually peeled off because it wasn’t the right type of paint.

Audi is researching laser lights that project onto the road surface behind the car that act as indicators for safe following distance and they change position and type in bad weather and provide extra visual cues for when the car is braking.

The Rev Dodgson said:

A quick search suggests that San Marino has lowest death rate on roads, since no-one ever dies in traffic accidents there, followed by Norway.

If a country where it is cold dark and icy for half the year can have fewer road deaths than Australia, that suggests we still have room for considerable improvement.

Being too cold and dark to venture outside is a good way of lowering the road toll

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

A quick search suggests that San Marino has lowest death rate on roads, since no-one ever dies in traffic accidents there, followed by Norway.

If a country where it is cold dark and icy for half the year can have fewer road deaths than Australia, that suggests we still have room for considerable improvement.

Being too cold and dark to venture outside is a good way of lowering the road toll

Good point, except Norway is also the lowest for deaths per billion km.

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

A quick search suggests that San Marino has lowest death rate on roads, since no-one ever dies in traffic accidents there, followed by Norway.

If a country where it is cold dark and icy for half the year can have fewer road deaths than Australia, that suggests we still have room for considerable improvement.

Being too cold and dark to venture outside is a good way of lowering the road toll

:) sometimes reality can be funny. I do think however that if one has had to learn to drive on icy roads then one has more experience.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

A quick search suggests that San Marino has lowest death rate on roads, since no-one ever dies in traffic accidents there, followed by Norway.

If a country where it is cold dark and icy for half the year can have fewer road deaths than Australia, that suggests we still have room for considerable improvement.

Being too cold and dark to venture outside is a good way of lowering the road toll

Good point, except Norway is also the lowest for deaths per billion km.

Interesting.. I wonder if they’re forced to drive much slower up there for the conditions

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

A quick search suggests that San Marino has lowest death rate on roads, since no-one ever dies in traffic accidents there, followed by Norway.

If a country where it is cold dark and icy for half the year can have fewer road deaths than Australia, that suggests we still have room for considerable improvement.

Being too cold and dark to venture outside is a good way of lowering the road toll

Good point, except Norway is also the lowest for deaths per billion km.

The people in Australia who have always driven on dirt roads could also qualify.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

Being too cold and dark to venture outside is a good way of lowering the road toll

Good point, except Norway is also the lowest for deaths per billion km.

The people in Australia who have always driven on dirt roads could also qualify.

Qualify for what? I have driven on dirt roads, where do I apply?

Deaths per billion km (latest available data):

Norway: 3.3
Australia: 5.6
NSW: 5.5
Victoria: 4.6
ACT: 2.9 (average over 10 years because yearly figures are variable).

So it seems that cold winters are indeed the secret of safe driving.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

A quick search suggests that San Marino has lowest death rate on roads, since no-one ever dies in traffic accidents there, followed by Norway.

If a country where it is cold dark and icy for half the year can have fewer road deaths than Australia, that suggests we still have room for considerable improvement.

Being too cold and dark to venture outside is a good way of lowering the road toll

Good point, except Norway is also the lowest for deaths per billion km.

and it doesn’t seem to stop the Irish

Did I ever tell you that I’ve sprayed the arse end of my car with reflective paint? To make it very visible to the car behind. Every car should have reflective paint on the rear. It eventually peeled off because it wasn’t the right type of paint.

that would be nice for the following car. lovely glare from the paint. add a bit of fog or rain and visibility for the driver behind goes to zero.

JudgeMental said:

Did I ever tell you that I’ve sprayed the arse end of my car with reflective paint? To make it very visible to the car behind. Every car should have reflective paint on the rear. It eventually peeled off because it wasn’t the right type of paint.

that would be nice for the following car. lovely glare from the paint. add a bit of fog or rain and visibility for the driver behind goes to zero.

It’s a heck of a lot better than dazzling oncoming cars and pedestrians with your headlights during the day.

why do either? headlights on low beam shouldn’t dazzle anyone.

I was under the impression there were rules governing what type of lights and reflectors were allowed on the rear of vehicles…

LED running lights these days. Nice

i believe you are correct furious.

mollwollfumble said:

JudgeMental said:

Did I ever tell you that I’ve sprayed the arse end of my car with reflective paint? To make it very visible to the car behind. Every car should have reflective paint on the rear. It eventually peeled off because it wasn’t the right type of paint.

that would be nice for the following car. lovely glare from the paint. add a bit of fog or rain and visibility for the driver behind goes to zero.

It’s a heck of a lot better than dazzling oncoming cars and pedestrians with your headlights during the day.

Cop cars have reflective rears. The huge reflective roadsigns are the biggest health hazard.
I don’t recall ever being dazzled by headlights in daylight.

JudgeMental said:

why do either? headlights on low beam shouldn’t dazzle anyone.

In wet weather, headlights don’t do squat, at any time of the day or night, on urban roads. At least with reflective paint on cars they would do something.

As for headlights on low beam, I’m sure I suffered permanent eye damage from sitting waiting for buses on a patch of road that was crest-like. Even if it wasn’t permanent damage it was bloody painful.

The huge reflective roadsigns are the biggest health hazard.

a right pita they are. so is why i’m for less reflective stuff on the roads.

JudgeMental said:

The huge reflective roadsigns are the biggest health hazard.

a right pita they are. so is why i’m for less reflective stuff on the roads.

Spare a thought for any poor sod standing near the roadsign. Roadsigns reflect back a maximum of 10% of the light that shines on them. So if you’re dazzled by them then the poor sod would be blinded by your headlights.

the difference being that as a driver you can’t very well a)close your eyes or b)turn away. also as a driver, you have a windscreen in front of you which may be dirty, fogged or any other that may result in suboptimal seeing conditions. you can’t alawys have a spotless windscreen.

mollwollfumble said:

JudgeMental said:

The huge reflective roadsigns are the biggest health hazard.

a right pita they are. so is why i’m for less reflective stuff on the roads.

Spare a thought for any poor sod standing near the roadsign. Roadsigns reflect back a maximum of 10% of the light that shines on them. So if you’re dazzled by them then the poor sod would be blinded by your headlights.

A smart person would not run that risk. Kangaroos do and they are impossible to see jumping out from behind said signs.