Date: 23/05/2015 08:03:10
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 727416
Subject: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

They’re still looking, but I do find it annoying that almost all papers on SETI are about how to search rather than on the search results.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1505.05131.pdf The idea is that an adjanced civilisation might be utilising all the energy of pulsar jets as a power source. The idea works best for a pulsar where the jets are in the equatorial plane.

“Assuming the possibility of existence of a supercivilization we extend the idea of Freeman Dyson considering pulsars instead of stars. It is shown that instead of a spherical shell the supercivilization must use ring-like constructions. We have found that a size of the ”ring” should be of the order of (10^-4 – 10^-1)AU with temperature interval (300 – 600)K for relatively slowly rotating pulsars

The attempts to identify Dyson spheres on the sky were performed by several groups but no significant results were obtained. A couple of years ago Carrigan has published an article titled: ”IRAS-based whole sky upper limit on Dyson spheres”. This satellite covered almost 96% of the sky, implying that this is almost whole sky monitoring. According to the study, the searches have been conducted as for fully as for partially cloaked Dysion spheres. The search has revealed 16 Dyson sphere candidates.

In this manuscript we present a rather different idea how to search an advanced intelligence. In the framework of Dyson’s idea, the spherical shroud is constructed around stars. It is clear that in order to consume almost the total energy radiated by the star, it must be embedded inside a closed spherical shell, requiring enormous material to construct it. On the other hand, it is very well known that pulsars – rapidly rotating neutron stars – emit huge energy in narrow channels, therefore, if a supercivilization exists it can in principle utilize the energy of these objects. But in these cases, instead of sphere-like envelopes the super intelligence has to use ring-like structures around the pulsars.”

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Date: 23/05/2015 08:07:09
From: Divine Angel
ID: 727417
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

Search results
Stardate 1538.2: Nothing
Stardate 1678.9: Still nothing
Stardate 1742.4: Detected some beeping.
Stardate 1873.6: Beeping found to be from microwave.

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Date: 23/05/2015 08:08:29
From: poikilotherm
ID: 727418
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

Divine Angel said:


Search results
Stardate 1538.2: Nothing
Stardate 1678.9: Still nothing
Stardate 1742.4: Detected some beeping.
Stardate 1873.6: Beeping found to be from microwave.

Ha.

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Date: 23/05/2015 08:51:44
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 727449
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

Divine Angel said:


Search results
Stardate 1538.2: Nothing
Stardate 1678.9: Still nothing
Stardate 1742.4: Detected some beeping.
Stardate 1873.6: Beeping found to be from microwave.

Well, what do you expect?, given the SETI decision tree.

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Date: 23/05/2015 08:53:04
From: Divine Angel
ID: 727451
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

Well that narrows it down.

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Date: 23/05/2015 09:34:16
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 727459
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

Wouldn’t they be better looking for ordinary run of the mill intelligences, rather than super-intelligences which if they exist at all are likely to be millions or billions of times less common?

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Date: 23/05/2015 09:40:06
From: dv
ID: 727460
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

The Rev Dodgson said:


Wouldn’t they be better looking for ordinary run of the mill intelligences, rather than super-intelligences which if they exist at all are likely to be millions or billions of times less common?

I think “intelligences” is the wrong term, we’re talking about level of technology and size of industry.

There’s no point in looking for, say, civilisations of our level of technology because our level of technology can’t send a signal from one star to another that can be detected by our level of technology.

In a thousand years we won’t be much smarter but maybe by then the technology and industry will be a) able to send huge signals that even 2015-earth-like civilisations can detect and/or b) able to detect signals even 2015-earth-like-civilisations can send.

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Date: 23/05/2015 09:58:11
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 727473
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

dv said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Wouldn’t they be better looking for ordinary run of the mill intelligences, rather than super-intelligences which if they exist at all are likely to be millions or billions of times less common?

I think “intelligences” is the wrong term, we’re talking about level of technology and size of industry.

There’s no point in looking for, say, civilisations of our level of technology because our level of technology can’t send a signal from one star to another that can be detected by our level of technology.

In a thousand years we won’t be much smarter but maybe by then the technology and industry will be a) able to send huge signals that even 2015-earth-like civilisations can detect and/or b) able to detect signals even 2015-earth-like-civilisations can send.

OK, I think that answers the question, but it also leads to the conclusion that the probability of finding such a civilisation is so low that it probably isn’t worth the effort.

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Date: 23/05/2015 10:07:07
From: dv
ID: 727486
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

The Rev Dodgson said:


dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Wouldn’t they be better looking for ordinary run of the mill intelligences, rather than super-intelligences which if they exist at all are likely to be millions or billions of times less common?

I think “intelligences” is the wrong term, we’re talking about level of technology and size of industry.

There’s no point in looking for, say, civilisations of our level of technology because our level of technology can’t send a signal from one star to another that can be detected by our level of technology.

In a thousand years we won’t be much smarter but maybe by then the technology and industry will be a) able to send huge signals that even 2015-earth-like civilisations can detect and/or b) able to detect signals even 2015-earth-like-civilisations can send.

OK, I think that answers the question, but it also leads to the conclusion that the probability of finding such a civilisation is so low that it probably isn’t worth the effort.

That’s my view, but I also think that our real understanding of the likelihood of these things is low

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Date: 23/05/2015 10:08:30
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 727489
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

dv said:

That’s my view, but I also think that our real understanding of the likelihood of these things is low

We are in agreeance on this topic.

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Date: 23/05/2015 12:49:14
From: wookiemeister
ID: 727528
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

Divine Angel said:


Search results
Stardate 1538.2: Nothing
Stardate 1678.9: Still nothing
Stardate 1742.4: Detected some beeping.
Stardate 1873.6: Beeping found to be from microwave.

Stardate 1873.7 coffee is now at sufficient temperature
stardate 1873.8 the invasion begins

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Date: 24/05/2015 13:28:27
From: bob(from black rock)
ID: 727878
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

“And pray that there is intelligent life somewhere out in space,
cos there’s bugger-all down here on Earth.”

Cant remember where that came from, but it seems reasonable to me.

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Date: 24/05/2015 13:29:19
From: dv
ID: 727879
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

bob(from black rock) said:

“And pray that there is intelligent life somewhere out in space,
cos there’s bugger-all down here on Earth.”

Cant remember where that came from, but it seems reasonable to me.

It is from the film The Meaning Of Life.

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Date: 24/05/2015 13:30:29
From: bob(from black rock)
ID: 727881
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

dv said:


bob(from black rock) said:
“And pray that there is intelligent life somewhere out in space,
cos there’s bugger-all down here on Earth.”

Cant remember where that came from, but it seems reasonable to me.

It is from the film The Meaning Of Life.

Yeah that’s it, thanks.

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Date: 26/05/2015 13:07:06
From: Cymek
ID: 728779
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

Perhaps highly intelligent aliens are much better at utilising energy and don’t need the vast amounts we assume they would when building a Dyson sphere

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Date: 27/05/2015 04:18:19
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 729178
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

Cymek said:


Perhaps highly intelligent aliens are much better at utilising energy and don’t need the vast amounts we assume they would when building a Dyson sphere

My fondest hope it that they’ve learnt to utilise the energy given off in a supernova, it’s relatively easy to nudge a white dwarf into a trajectory where it (eventually) hits a star. My second fondest hope is that they power their spacecraft by tossing hydrogen bombs out the aft end.

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Date: 27/05/2015 07:05:07
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 729181
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

mollwollfumble said:

My second fondest hope is that they power their spacecraft by tossing hydrogen bombs out the aft end.

Take me, I’m yours.

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Date: 27/05/2015 11:29:54
From: Cymek
ID: 729328
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

mollwollfumble said:


Cymek said:

Perhaps highly intelligent aliens are much better at utilising energy and don’t need the vast amounts we assume they would when building a Dyson sphere

My fondest hope it that they’ve learnt to utilise the energy given off in a supernova, it’s relatively easy to nudge a white dwarf into a trajectory where it (eventually) hits a star. My second fondest hope is that they power their spacecraft by tossing hydrogen bombs out the aft end.

If aliens used this form of propulsion and were heading towards Earth how easily could we detect it ?

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Date: 27/05/2015 11:36:32
From: Cymek
ID: 729337
Subject: re: SETI, pulsars and Dyson spheres.

Cymek said:


mollwollfumble said:

Cymek said:

Perhaps highly intelligent aliens are much better at utilising energy and don’t need the vast amounts we assume they would when building a Dyson sphere

My fondest hope it that they’ve learnt to utilise the energy given off in a supernova, it’s relatively easy to nudge a white dwarf into a trajectory where it (eventually) hits a star. My second fondest hope is that they power their spacecraft by tossing hydrogen bombs out the aft end.

If aliens used this form of propulsion and were heading towards Earth how easily could we detect it ?

Also how much danger is their using this method of acceleration in contaminating your target system?

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