I understand the chip in the paywave system can be ‘read’ or woken or something by clever scanner devices etc. I’ve seen wallets advertised has having shielding. What is this shielding? Metal? Lead (for kryptonite safety)? Would aluminium foil folded into the outer part of a wallet to the same job? Does metal annoy the magnetic strip?

Waiting for quips about alfoil helmets…..

buffy said:

I understand the chip in the paywave system can be ‘read’ or woken or something by clever scanner devices etc. I’ve seen wallets advertised has having shielding. What is this shielding? Metal? Lead (for kryptonite safety)? Would aluminium foil folded into the outer part of a wallet to the same job? Does metal annoy the magnetic strip?

Waiting for quips about alfoil helmets…..

Well, if you are wanting a name for the foil…

http://www.visa.com.au/personal/features/visapaywave.shtml

http://www.visa.com.au/personal/security/zeroliability.shtml

Sounds like buffy has a new card…

No, but I wasn’t best pleased a couple of years ago when I couldn’t have one without the facility. I’d prefer a PIN only one. As they won’t let me have a sign only one any more.

JudgeMental said:

http://www.visa.com.au/personal/features/visapaywave.shtml

http://www.visa.com.au/personal/security/zeroliability.shtml

Yeah, I’ve read all that. And I simply don’t believe the banks.

I still want to know if the card needs shielding from naughty nerds and if metal does the job. And if metal is detrimental to the stripe.

passive shields will only attenuate the signals not completely block them. they wont harm the strip.

you have to really close to scan the chip, a couple of cm. the shields cut this distance down. they use various metals and there are some paper ones.

>>And I simply don’t believe the banks

Neither did my Aunty Mira, she kept all their money in the vacuum cleaner.

>>you have to really close to scan the chip<<

A good pickpocket gets that close or closer. If the thing transmits through fabric, I think a good tech thinker could set up some sort of instrument for reading/waking it just by brushing past a person.

Peak Warming Man said:

>>And I simply don’t believe the banks

Neither did my Aunty Mira, she kept all their money in the vacuum cleaner.

An old Thump tradition.

that is how they are skimmed. so you can protect them to a certain degree and the banks will reimburse you for fraudulent use.

A radio device (just a stab in dark, no idea of whatever specifically you’re talking about) can be woken and energized by a near (or strong enough) electromagnetic field, further it can be made to be interrogated and send back information with its own radio signal(communicate).

Putting a metal cover around it will make it less sensitive or deafer to near field radio signals that are of the kind that might do the job.

I believe credit card blockers are thin metal, like those metal business card holders.

I recommend you use an earthed gold case, preferably about 5 mm thick, but 3 mm would do under most circumstances, to totally enclose your pay-wave card.

Just keep it in a handy chilled Faraday cage.

These might be of interest.

http://cardshield.com.au/

http://www.armourcard.com.au/what-is-armourcard/#sthash.xKVSfdzH.dpbs

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-30/electronic-pickpocketing-looms-as-next-credit-card-fraud-threat/5486806

https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=credit+card+paywave+blocker

I see there have been concerns for some time:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-30/electronic-pickpocketing-looms-as-next-credit-card-fraud-threat/5486806

Anyway, my other question is this. If you use paywave/tap&go etc for lots of little purchases, how do you keep track of your money. And what a horror of a bank statement to sort out to make sure there aren’t any transactions there that aren’t yours. No wonder people get into debt.

Yes, I’m one of those people who reconcile their bank statements to the cent.

buffy said:

Anyway, my other question is this. If you use paywave/tap&go etc for lots of little purchases, how do you keep track of your money. And what a horror of a bank statement to sort out to make sure there aren’t any transactions there that aren’t yours. No wonder people get into debt.

Yes, I’m one of those people who reconcile their bank statements to the cent.

Online banking and/or apps will show your purchases immediately.

buffy said:

I see there have been concerns for some time:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-30/electronic-pickpocketing-looms-as-next-credit-card-fraud-threat/5486806

Anyway, my other question is this. If you use paywave/tap&go etc for lots of little purchases, how do you keep track of your money. And what a horror of a bank statement to sort out to make sure there aren’t any transactions there that aren’t yours. No wonder people get into debt.

Yes, I’m one of those people who reconcile their bank statements to the cent.

One still gets a receipt. I check the receipts against the bill.

I have had the bank call me when I purchased quite a bit of stuff in a town 900 km from home. It actually freaked me out – I was concerned someone was trying to get at me.

This question was brought to you by one of my patients today, while we were faffing around with the terminal sorting out her payment for her glasses and consultation and claiming back from Medicare for her. I don’t personally use the Paywave facility, so should there be any transactions which I don’t have a receipt for, I will know it ain’t mine.

Michael V said:

buffy said:

I see there have been concerns for some time:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-30/electronic-pickpocketing-looms-as-next-credit-card-fraud-threat/5486806

Anyway, my other question is this. If you use paywave/tap&go etc for lots of little purchases, how do you keep track of your money. And what a horror of a bank statement to sort out to make sure there aren’t any transactions there that aren’t yours. No wonder people get into debt.

Yes, I’m one of those people who reconcile their bank statements to the cent.

One still gets a receipt. I check the receipts against the bill.

I have had the bank call me when I purchased quite a bit of stuff in a town 900 km from home. It actually freaked me out – I was concerned someone was trying to get at me.

You don’t have to get a receipt, and I suspect people who think they are terribly busy and in a hurry waive the receipt. Still, it’s their money.

buffy said:

Michael V said:

buffy said:

I see there have been concerns for some time:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-30/electronic-pickpocketing-looms-as-next-credit-card-fraud-threat/5486806

Anyway, my other question is this. If you use paywave/tap&go etc for lots of little purchases, how do you keep track of your money. And what a horror of a bank statement to sort out to make sure there aren’t any transactions there that aren’t yours. No wonder people get into debt.

Yes, I’m one of those people who reconcile their bank statements to the cent.

One still gets a receipt. I check the receipts against the bill.

I have had the bank call me when I purchased quite a bit of stuff in a town 900 km from home. It actually freaked me out – I was concerned someone was trying to get at me.

You don’t have to get a receipt, and I suspect people who think they are terribly busy and in a hurry waive the receipt. Still, it’s their money.

You don’t have to get a receipt anywhere, but it’s advisable to do so.

Divine Angel said:

buffy said:

Anyway, my other question is this. If you use paywave/tap&go etc for lots of little purchases, how do you keep track of your money. And what a horror of a bank statement to sort out to make sure there aren’t any transactions there that aren’t yours. No wonder people get into debt.

Yes, I’m one of those people who reconcile their bank statements to the cent.

Online banking and/or apps will show your purchases immediately.

I didn’t realise that. Interesting.

Still, not too onerous to keep a rough running tally in one’s head, and then check the receipts once a month. Good time to clean out the wallet, and get the moths out.

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

buffy said:

Anyway, my other question is this. If you use paywave/tap&go etc for lots of little purchases, how do you keep track of your money. And what a horror of a bank statement to sort out to make sure there aren’t any transactions there that aren’t yours. No wonder people get into debt.

Yes, I’m one of those people who reconcile their bank statements to the cent.

Online banking and/or apps will show your purchases immediately.

I didn’t realise that. Interesting.

Still, not too onerous to keep a rough running tally in one’s head, and then check the receipts once a month. Good time to clean out the wallet, and get the moths out.

I check it every payday when I pay it off in full (avoiding interest, and keeping more in the offset account).

OCDC said:

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

Online banking and/or apps will show your purchases immediately.

I didn’t realise that. Interesting.

Still, not too onerous to keep a rough running tally in one’s head, and then check the receipts once a month. Good time to clean out the wallet, and get the moths out.

I check it every payday when I pay it off in full (avoiding interest, and keeping more in the offset account).

I’ve instructed the bank to pay it out in full on the due date, automatically. I check it when the statement arrives in the mail.

And whilst buffy is anti-smartphone, I suspect that most users of paywave do in fact have a smartphone with which they can check their balance should they ever wish to.

You have to remember that I’ve seen the future. When the Warrnambool telephone exchange burnt down, we had no internets, no eftpos, no phones, some mobile in unreliable, changing places. For two weeks. It only needs someone to take out a major exchange. ( And then the electricity if you want t really stuff it) And commerce sort of grinds to a halt. The banks could not order money to be brought by Armaguard because the only way to do it was by Internet. And that was down.

Trust me. If this happened in the metropolis, it would be a lot worse than we had it.

OCDC said:

And whilst buffy is anti-smartphone, I suspect that most users of paywave do in fact have a smartphone with which they can check their balance should they ever wish to.

I might have to find out about this “apps” stuff some day. I did install one once – a GPS, but I couldn’t find one that uses MGA instead of Lat/Long, so it’s not much use.

buffy said:

You have to remember that I’ve seen the future. When the Warrnambool telephone exchange burnt down, we had no internets, no eftpos, no phones, some mobile in unreliable, changing places. For two weeks. It only needs someone to take out a major exchange. ( And then the electricity if you want t really stuff it) And commerce sort of grinds to a halt. The banks could not order money to be brought by Armaguard because the only way to do it was by Internet. And that was down.

Trust me. If this happened in the metropolis, it would be a lot worse than we had it.

Three meals away from anarchy.

But in the big-smoke, it’d be fixed in a flash…

Michael V said:

But in the big-smoke, it’d be fixed in a flash…

And there would be considerable redundancy.

Michael V said:

But in the big-smoke, it’d be fixed in a flash…

I am not so convinced. Taking out one node by physical means might do it. Spooky software intervention might do it. Massive solar event might do it.

Michael V said:

But in the big-smoke, it’d be fixed in a flash…

The whole thing burnt down. It had to be demolished and rebuilt. They apparently had no means of re-routing. Which I found astonishing. But there you are. Probably the rest of the system is like that too…

we had the same problem after a storm. landline and mobile out for 3 days.

buffy said:

You have to remember that I’ve seen the future. When the Warrnambool telephone exchange burnt down, we had no internets, no eftpos, no phones, some mobile in unreliable, changing places. For two weeks. It only needs someone to take out a major exchange. ( And then the electricity if you want t really stuff it) And commerce sort of grinds to a halt. The banks could not order money to be brought by Armaguard because the only way to do it was by Internet. And that was down.

Trust me. If this happened in the metropolis, it would be a lot worse than we had it.

I’m doing a certain job for a major telco company cough and being the interface between them and companies who have never dealt with then before. These other companies are used to commercial and domestic installations, and aren’t really conversant with how twitchy the major telco company can be. The town of Warrnambool has been mentioned on numerous occasions during meetings, although I’m not sure why :)

sibeen said:

buffy said:

You have to remember that I’ve seen the future. When the Warrnambool telephone exchange burnt down, we had no internets, no eftpos, no phones, some mobile in unreliable, changing places. For two weeks. It only needs someone to take out a major exchange. ( And then the electricity if you want t really stuff it) And commerce sort of grinds to a halt. The banks could not order money to be brought by Armaguard because the only way to do it was by Internet. And that was down.

Trust me. If this happened in the metropolis, it would be a lot worse than we had it.

I’m doing a certain job for a major telco company cough and being the interface between them and companies who have never dealt with then before. These other companies are used to commercial and domestic installations, and aren’t really conversant with how twitchy the major telco company can be. The town of Warrnambool has been mentioned on numerous occasions during meetings, although I’m not sure why :)

:)

>They apparently had no means of re-routing. Which I found astonishing. But there you are. Probably the rest of the system is like that too…

Be the same if it happened to many, this one here too, but we have mobile phone (separate i’d expect) into optical fibre, so people’d more use that.

It’d be a rare thing for an exchange to burn down (or to sustain serious damage that way). I’d guess if yours burnt down it’d‘ve been a fuck up by someone or some neglect over a period of time….

transition said:

It’d be a rare thing for an exchange to burn down (or to sustain serious damage that way). I’d guess if yours burnt down it’d‘ve been a fuck up by someone or some neglect over a period of time….

A Telstra investigation showed it was an electrical fault that caused the fire:
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2013/3/27/technology/telstra-reveals-lessons-learnt-warrnambool-exchange-fire-0

Other reading…

http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2012/11/22/3638336.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2013/05/31/3771873.htm

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/ten-ways-the-internet-can-be-shut-down-20141224-12cry0.html

OCDC said:

Just keep it in a handy chilled Faraday cage.

The inventor of the pocket chiller will probably go the way of the lighter fluid powered pocket heater inventor.

Michael V said:

You don’t have to get a receipt anywhere, but it’s advisable to do so.

The smart money is with you.

I’m getting a card with Paywaive……

I use paywave all the time, and I always know roughly how much I’ve got in the the bank accounts. I usually check once a day on internet banking.

Peak Warming Man said:

I wish Alexander Levy would just GAGF! Bastard!

party_pants said:

I use paywave all the time, and I always know roughly how much I’ve got in the the bank accounts. I usually check once a day on internet banking.

That’s because you’re not sufficiently paranoid.

• I wish Alexander Levy would just GAGF! Bastard!

Why’s that?

I tried to shield the WiFi transmitter at home a few months ago. Tried all sorts of combinations of Alum foil, baking pans, multiple layers of foil (together or separated by a void), metal boxes… all sorts of shit. Nothing seemed to make the slightest difference.

If someone at the bus shelter asks you how much is a Last tell them it depends.

From a definition of “last” in the OED:

2. A commercial denomination of weight, capacity, or quantity, varying for different kinds of goods and in different localities. Cf. G. last. Originally the “last” must have been the quantity carried at one time by the vehicle (boat, wagon, etc.) ordinarily used for the particular kind of merchandise. As a weight, it is often stated to be (like the Ger. weight of the same name) nominally equivalent either to 2 tons or to 4,000 lbs. In wool weight it is 4368 lbs. (= 12 sacks). A last of gunpowder is said to be 2,400 lbs. (= 24 barrels), and of feathers or flax 1,700 lbs.
The equivalence of the last of wool with 12 sacks seems to have led to an association of the word with the number twelve. Thus a last of hides was formerly 12 dozen (also 20 dickers of 10 hides each); of beer 12 barrels; of pitch 12 (sometimes 14) barrels; of cod and herrings 12 barrels (but of red herrings and pilchards 10,000 to 13,200 fish).
As a measure for grain and malt, the last was in the 16th c. 12 quarters, but is now 10 quarters = 80 bushels.

Peak Warming Man said:

If someone at the bus shelter asks you how much is a Last tell them it depends.

From a definition of “last” in the OED:

2. A commercial denomination of weight, capacity, or quantity, varying for different kinds of goods and in different localities. Cf. G. last. Originally the “last” must have been the quantity carried at one time by the vehicle (boat, wagon, etc.) ordinarily used for the particular kind of merchandise. As a weight, it is often stated to be (like the Ger. weight of the same name) nominally equivalent either to 2 tons or to 4,000 lbs. In wool weight it is 4368 lbs. (= 12 sacks). A last of gunpowder is said to be 2,400 lbs. (= 24 barrels), and of feathers or flax 1,700 lbs.
The equivalence of the last of wool with 12 sacks seems to have led to an association of the word with the number twelve. Thus a last of hides was formerly 12 dozen (also 20 dickers of 10 hides each); of beer 12 barrels; of pitch 12 (sometimes 14) barrels; of cod and herrings 12 barrels (but of red herrings and pilchards 10,000 to 13,200 fish).
As a measure for grain and malt, the last was in the 16th c. 12 quarters, but is now 10 quarters = 80 bushels.

There was also that which you repaired your shoes on. Emmachisit?

>I tried to shield the WiFi transmitter at home a few months ago.

any sort of cable in and out probably not much hope