New design points a path to the ‘ultimate’ battery

Scientists have developed a working laboratory demonstrator of a lithium-oxygen battery which has very high energy density, is more than 90% efficient, and, to date, can be recharged more than 2000 times, showing how several of the problems holding back the development of these devices could be solved.

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CrazyNeutrino said:

New design points a path to the ‘ultimate’ battery

Scientists have developed a working laboratory demonstrator of a lithium-oxygen battery which has very high energy density, is more than 90% efficient, and, to date, can be recharged more than 2000 times, showing how several of the problems holding back the development of these devices could be solved.

more…

So let’s hope it doesn’t turn out to be a lioh.

Seriously, the major impediment for rechargeable batteries is not energy density or rechargeability. It’s price.

>Seriously, the major impediment for rechargeable batteries is not energy density or rechargeability. It’s price.

well, it’s those those things, which relate to the service life it maintains the (a miminum) AH rating with recombination cycles that still does the job, and price is involved.

dv said:

Seriously, the major impediment for rechargeable batteries is not energy density or rechargeability. It’s price.

I hadn’t heard that before. Can you give an example or two?

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

Seriously, the major impediment for rechargeable batteries is not energy density or rechargeability. It’s price.

I hadn’t heard that before. Can you give an example or two?

Sure. The battery pack for a Nissan Leaf makes up about 40% of the price of manufacturing it. This makes it difficult to find a way to greatly increase its range without pushing its price out of reach of the people likely to want it.

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

Seriously, the major impediment for rechargeable batteries is not energy density or rechargeability. It’s price.

I hadn’t heard that before. Can you give an example or two?

Sure. The battery pack for a Nissan Leaf makes up about 40% of the price of manufacturing it. This makes it difficult to find a way to greatly increase its range without pushing its price out of reach of the people likely to want it.

(Checks web) 24 kWh lithium-ion battery. Replacement cost $5500.

Is that a true reflection of cost, or upping the price for replacement parts? eg. the sum of costs of genuine replacement parts often far exceeds the price of a new car.

(Checks web) “A typical ‘load shifting’ 4-hour battery (designed to address the afternoon/evening peak) costs anywhere from ~$720-2,800/kWh, depending entirely on the scale of the Lithium Ion battery employed and the size of order.” and “The average $500-700/kWh for a typical battery”. but $5500 translates to only $230/kWh, so that’s a bargain.

Come to think of it, why are some Lithium Ion batteries specified in mAh and others in kWh? (also neither is the SI accepted metric unit)

>mAh and others in kWh?

maybe former’s like 20H rate or whatever til goes below certain terminal voltage, latter’s an exhausted battery

in the ol’ days most equipment relied on maintaining battery state of charge within certain voltage range, that is the equipment connected was built to operate within an upper useful terminal voltage range, then came switchers that’d maintain voltage output, down to lower battery terminal voltages.

NFI really

dv said:

Seriously, the major impediment for rechargeable batteries is not energy density or rechargeability. It’s price.

It is a big hurdle., yeah.

mollwollfumble said:

Come to think of it, why are some Lithium Ion batteries specified in mAh and others in kWh? (also neither is the SI accepted metric unit)

I’ve worked in the industry for over 25 years and just had to do the calculation to realise that a 100 amp*hour 12 volt battery is ‘equivalent’ to a 400,000 Joule battery, or thereabouts :)

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Seriously, the major impediment for rechargeable batteries is not energy density or rechargeability. It’s price.

It is a big hurdle., yeah.

Part of which is the cost of lithium which we can only imagine is going to go up.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Seriously, the major impediment for rechargeable batteries is not energy density or rechargeability. It’s price.

It is a big hurdle., yeah.

Part of which is the cost of lithium which we can only imagine is going to go up.

If only they could do the same with zinc.

Part of which is the cost of lithium which we can only imagine is going to go up.

which leaves me both happy and sad.

;-)

sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

Come to think of it, why are some Lithium Ion batteries specified in mAh and others in kWh? (also neither is the SI accepted metric unit)

I’ve worked in the industry for over 25 years and just had to do the calculation to realise that a 100 amp*hour 12 volt battery is ‘equivalent’ to a 400,000 Joule battery, or thereabouts :)

The girl gave me a clock. She said the lady didn’t mind if we had to replace the movement and that if we did, she didn’t want to buy one with the pendulum. I [put a new alkaline battery in the clock. I said to the shop girl.. “do you see the second hand going around?” She said.. what did you do?
I changed the battery.
If you put a battery in a clock, you want a long life slow release fertiliser. Alkaline is the go.
Shop girl said, so Eveready heavy duty energisers aren’t good enough? I simply nodded and reiterated, “that’s what I said, yes.”

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Seriously, the major impediment for rechargeable batteries is not energy density or rechargeability. It’s price.

It is a big hurdle., yeah.

Part of which is the cost of lithium which we can only imagine is going to go up.

Well, they could have been recycling it but they haven’t.

ChrispenEvan said:

Part of which is the cost of lithium which we can only imagine is going to go up.

Hmm, lithium ought to fairly readily available, perhaps they’re mining it the wrong way. Let me see.

eg. Lithium is only present at 0.170 ppm in seawater (as against 1290 ppm for Mg), but once the H2O and NaCl is removed the waste product (known as bitterns), hmm, the Mg comes out of solution first leaving lithium. Dry the result thoroughly and feed the result through molten salt electrolysis. Result – electrodeposited lithium. Worth a try.

mollwollfumble said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Part of which is the cost of lithium which we can only imagine is going to go up.

Hmm, lithium ought to fairly readily available, perhaps they’re mining it the wrong way. Let me see.

eg. Lithium is only present at 0.170 ppm in seawater (as against 1290 ppm for Mg), but once the H2O and NaCl is removed the waste product (known as bitterns), hmm, the Mg comes out of solution first leaving lithium. Dry the result thoroughly and feed the result through molten salt electrolysis. Result – electrodeposited lithium. Worth a try.

I see, they do use this method for lithium production, but they don’t get their brines as waste products in salt (NaCl) production. Instead they get them from such sources as salt-water wells, waste from geothermal power plants, and waste brines from petroleum production. “Primary production from brines is potassium compounds (potash) with lithium produced as a by-product”. As well as from rock (pegmatite containing spodumene & petalite, and hectorite).

Australia is a significant producer of lithium.