Germany just switched on a revolutionary nuclear fusion machine

You probably didn’t notice, but a few hours ago, the world took a huge step towards the goal of achieving clean, limitless energy through nuclear fusion.

Physicists in Germany announced that they’ve just fired up one of the world’s largest nuclear fusion machines for the first time – and it was successfully able to contain super-hot blobs of helium gas, otherwise known as plasma.

more…

another article on the topic

http://www.ipp.mpg.de/3984226/12_15

Is that illustration of it accurate? It has portholes all over it.

AwesomeO said:

Is that illustration of it accurate? It has portholes all over it.

Going by the picture in the WP article, it seems basically accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendelstein_7-X

There are a number of fusion projects happening. Is there something newsworthy or novel about this one?

dv said:

There are a number of fusion projects happening. Is there something newsworthy or novel about this one?

It is one of the World’s largest, and it has just been fired up for the first time.

Also something about super hot plasma.

I wonder if it is possible that nuclear fusion will never prove to be a practical and economic energy source (other than the extra-terrestrial one of course).

Well, it was switched on and stuff.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

There are a number of fusion projects happening. Is there something newsworthy or novel about this one?

It is one of the World’s largest, and it has just been fired up for the first time.

Also something about super hot plasma.

I wonder if it is possible that nuclear fusion will never prove to be a practical and economic energy source (other than the extra-terrestrial one of course).

I think it is certainly possible, particularly since in ~ 20 years time there will be little cause to invest heavily in it.

I mean sure, they switched on this particular fusion project, great. I just don’t see how it matches the “the world took a huge step” in the article.

Whatever happened to steam power???

dv said:

I mean sure, they switched on this particular fusion project, great. I just don’t see how it matches the “the world took a huge step” in the article.

But, but but, it is fusion!!!

The vibe, man, the vibe!

Okay so apparently this is the biggest completed stellarator

dv said:

I think it is certainly possible, particularly since in ~ 20 years time there will be little cause to invest heavily in it.

Maybe

We’ll see (some of us anyway)

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

There are a number of fusion projects happening. Is there something newsworthy or novel about this one?

It is one of the World’s largest, and it has just been fired up for the first time.

Also something about super hot plasma.

I wonder if it is possible that nuclear fusion will never prove to be a practical and economic energy source (other than the extra-terrestrial one of course).

I like to think we will master it. There is enough potential reward to keep the efforts going and it is a process we know is possible.

Subject: re: thorium molten salt nuclear reactors to generate electricity

From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 808831

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Lists_of_nuclear_disasters_and_radioactive_incidents

I wonder in regards to fusion power generation if they originally thought it would be as easy (relatively speaking) as fission power generation and found it wasn’t and our technology is only now barely capable of achieving it.

Cymek said:

I wonder in regards to fusion power generation if they originally thought it would be as easy (relatively speaking) as fission power generation and found it wasn’t and our technology is only now barely capable of achieving it.

I doubt that our technology is capable of achieving it as a safe, reliable and economic power source. Otherwise people would be using it, or there would at least be a pilot plant or two generating electricity.

That’s not to say it never will reach that stage, but there is no guarantee.

I’m sure it has turned out to be much more difficult than was first envisaged.

Physicists tend not to be that good at assessing the practicalities of engineering :)

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

I wonder in regards to fusion power generation if they originally thought it would be as easy (relatively speaking) as fission power generation and found it wasn’t and our technology is only now barely capable of achieving it.

I doubt that our technology is capable of achieving it as a safe, reliable and economic power source. Otherwise people would be using it, or there would at least be a pilot plant or two generating electricity.

That’s not to say it never will reach that stage, but there is no guarantee.

I’m sure it has turned out to be much more difficult than was first envisaged.

Physicists tend not to be that good at assessing the practicalities of engineering :)

If we can’t achieve fusion power in the near future (next 50 to 100 years) I wonder if it would limit our technological progress.

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

I wonder in regards to fusion power generation if they originally thought it would be as easy (relatively speaking) as fission power generation and found it wasn’t and our technology is only now barely capable of achieving it.

I doubt that our technology is capable of achieving it as a safe, reliable and economic power source. Otherwise people would be using it, or there would at least be a pilot plant or two generating electricity.

That’s not to say it never will reach that stage, but there is no guarantee.

I’m sure it has turned out to be much more difficult than was first envisaged.

Physicists tend not to be that good at assessing the practicalities of engineering :)

If we can’t achieve fusion power in the near future (next 50 to 100 years) I wonder if it would limit our technological progress.

Well it will certainly affect the direction of development, but not necessarily for the worse.

We do after all already have a large nuclear fusion plant sitting in the sky.

• I think it is certainly possible, particularly since in ~ 20 years time there will be little cause to invest heavily in it.

Just curious, what do you mean by this?

The thing is, as I was trying to allude to before, renewable energy is abundantly available and convertible by inexpensive equipment already. If people wanted to we could be using renewable energy for everything within a generation.

This wasn’t the case when people started to get excited about the possibility of fusion power plants in the 60s and 70s.

Maybe “in twenty years time” they will achieve stable over unity power production from a fusion plant, which will be quite interesting, but in a practical sense people would say, “Okay, so it is yet another renewable energy source. Can it compete on price with the ones we already have?”

dv said:

The thing is, as I was trying to allude to before, renewable energy is abundantly available and convertible by inexpensive equipment already. If people wanted to we could be using renewable energy for everything within a generation.

This wasn’t the case when people started to get excited about the possibility of fusion power plants in the 60s and 70s.

Maybe “in twenty years time” they will achieve stable over unity power production from a fusion plant, which will be quite interesting, but in a practical sense people would say, “Okay, so it is yet another renewable energy source. Can it compete on price with the ones we already have?”

Maybe it’s more practical (or not if its highly complex and large) for interplanetary / stellar spacecraft

maybe it will be more a case of competing with storage devices in the future.

• The thing is, as I was trying to allude to before, renewable energy is abundantly available and convertible by inexpensive equipment already. If people wanted to we could be using renewable energy for everything within a generation.

That sounds reasonable.

• Maybe it’s more practical (or not if its highly complex and large) for interplanetary / stellar spacecraft

I was thinking that it would still be applicable in an “off world” setting…

I wonder if TO and PE could be used as a power source, two opposite forms of matter bought together and a huge explosion 100% efficient occurs, just need to control it

Cymek said:

Maybe it’s more practical (or not if its highly complex and large) for interplanetary / stellar spacecraft

Maybe. At the moment it is not practical for anything.

Cymek said:

I wonder if TO and PE could be used as a power source, two opposite forms of matter bought together and a huge explosion 100% efficient occurs, just need to control it

Yes, they’d need to get a room.

dv said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if TO and PE could be used as a power source, two opposite forms of matter bought together and a huge explosion 100% efficient occurs, just need to control it

Yes, they’d need to get a room.

You seem to be inferring that I am an extremist, yet all I do is repeat the science.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if TO and PE could be used as a power source, two opposite forms of matter bought together and a huge explosion 100% efficient occurs, just need to control it

Yes, they’d need to get a room.

You seem to be inferring that I am an extremist, yet all I do is repeat the science.

implying

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if TO and PE could be used as a power source, two opposite forms of matter bought together and a huge explosion 100% efficient occurs, just need to control it

Yes, they’d need to get a room.

You seem to be inferring that I am an extremist, yet all I do is repeat the science.

Not that but you are opposite sides of the argument and a worry if you met, like matter and antimatter, it was a joke.
TO only seems to post to stir or prove a point (or not) you take part in other discussions

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Yes, they’d need to get a room.

You seem to be inferring that I am an extremist, yet all I do is repeat the science.

implying

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if TO and PE could be used as a power source, two opposite forms of matter bought together and a huge explosion 100% efficient occurs, just need to control it

Yes, they’d need to get a room.

You seem to be inferring that I am an extremist, yet all I do is repeat the science.

You r an extremist. You suggest worst case scenarios will be the norm & refuse to consider any other argument, or science that shows the opposite is likely true.

And your an angry tosser devoid of a sense of humour & an outright liar

Cymek said:

I wonder if TO and PE could be used as a power source, two opposite forms of matter bought together and a huge explosion 100% efficient occurs, just need to control it

He he, that’s jovial, I get it, good on ya cymek

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Yes, they’d need to get a room.

You seem to be inferring that I am an extremist, yet all I do is repeat the science.

Not that but you are opposite sides of the argument and a worry if you met, like matter and antimatter, it was a joke.
TO only seems to post to stir or prove a point (or not) you take part in other discussions

To Stir & prove a point my dear cymek.

and to show there’s another credible side to the debate

The_observer said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Yes, they’d need to get a room.

You seem to be inferring that I am an extremist, yet all I do is repeat the science.

You r an extremist. You suggest worst case scenarios will be the norm & refuse to consider any other argument, or science that shows the opposite is likely true.

And your an angry tosser devoid of a sense of humour & an outright liar

If I am an extremist Observer, then so are most scientific people in a position to observe the effects of climate change and unlike you actually care about what is currently happening and will happen with higher temperatures.

I did notice the humor in the comparison between you and me, but this is very old hat and stems from a time when I was considered as ignorant as you, to which I did object.

You have accused me of lying before, however I do not consider myself a liar and I would like to know what evidence you have to support this accusation?

Jesus wept

• however I do not consider myself a liar

The_observer said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Yes, they’d need to get a room.

You seem to be inferring that I am an extremist, yet all I do is repeat the science.

You r an extremist. You suggest worst case scenarios will be the norm & refuse to consider any other argument, or science that shows the opposite is likely true.

And your an angry tosser devoid of a sense of humour & an outright liar

Here you go Observer, something to consider about the so called scientists you like to quote.
Undercover Greenpeace activists buy off corrupt academics in a climate science sting

http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/undercover-greenpeace-activist.html

dv said:

Jesus wept

And why is that dv? Have you committed another sin?

furious said:

• however I do not consider myself a liar

Accusations are easy to make, but when have I done so?

• Accusations are easy to make, but when have I done so?

I was just addressing the quoted statement in isolation, nothing more, nothing less….

furious said:

• Accusations are easy to make, but when have I done so?

I was just addressing the quoted statement in isolation, nothing more, nothing less….

Yeah, well bloody well stop making accusations that damage people’s character. I can assure you I am a damn site more honest than many around here.

furious said:

• Accusations are easy to make, but when have I done so?

I was just addressing the quoted statement in isolation, nothing more, nothing less….

I would also like to point out that telling a lie is to make a statement that you know to be untrue.

It is a simple statement of fact that if someone makes a statement that they believe to be true, or even one that they do not know to be false, then that statement is not a lie, even if it is untrue.

dv said:

AwesomeO said:

Is that illustration of it accurate? It has portholes all over it.

Going by the picture in the WP article, it seems basically accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendelstein_7-X

A stellerator. That’s an old type of design that was superseded by the tokamak. I’m surprised that they went backwards in their design strategy, but I suppose they must have a good reason. The JET (Joint European Torus) is more advanced.

Besides magnetic fields is their any other way to contain plasma

Cymek said:

Besides magnetic fields is their any other way to contain plasma

Yes.