does consciousness qualify as a physical force

No.

No.

Also, this is a terrible subject line. “Is consciousness a force?” would be more helpful. This ain’t buzzfeed.

sibeen said:

No.

what do you need to know to be absolutely certain of that

>Also, this is a terrible subject line. “Is consciousness a force?” would be more helpful. This ain’t buzzfeed.

given consciousness hasn’t been explained the title invites another way of looking at it.

Physical forces are very basic characteristics underlying everything else. Consciousness is a very complex product of organic chemistry.

Bubblecar said:

Physical forces are very basic characteristics underlying everything else. Consciousness is a very complex product of organic chemistry.

not sure all of whatever consciousness might be attributed to only organic chemistry, probably true to extent, but indulge me re new force.

but indulge me re new force.

what? you ask a question we give an answer in the negative now you want us to agree with you? where exactly does this thread go from here? i mean how naff. why don’t you just bang on ‘til your hearts content with what you want to hear rather than asking us for an opinion you’ll just ignore.

transition said:

Bubblecar said:

Physical forces are very basic characteristics underlying everything else. Consciousness is a very complex product of organic chemistry.

not sure all of whatever consciousness might be attributed to only organic chemistry, probably true to extent, but indulge me re new force.

I would separate ego and consciousness this way. Ego is based on perception and learnt preferences and therefore is organic. Consciousness underlies this but does not interact. It is the observer and can influence the result but is not effected by the result.

ChrispenEvan said:

but indulge me re new force.

what? you ask a question we give an answer in the negative now you want us to agree with you? where exactly does this thread go from here? i mean how naff. why don’t you just bang on ‘til your hearts content with what you want to hear rather than asking us for an opinion you’ll just ignore.

You resolved to treat people with patience!

>what? you ask a question we give an answer in the negative now you want us to agree with you?

the we delusion, i’m just chucking an idea around, a bit of a distraction from arguments in that other thread, I don’t have a bleief one way or the other regards the propositions

minding my own business mostly, avoiding prickly cunts

don’t blame me if your thinking is less than satisfactory.

transition said:

minding my own business mostly, avoiding prickly cunts

Always a good idea. I’ve eaten a prickly pear and decided then I wouldn’t stick my nob in any prickly cunts…..

ChrispenEvan said:

don’t blame me if your thinking is less than satisfactory.

You need a “Thought Police” badge…..

ChrispenEvan said:

don’t blame me if your thinking is less than satisfactory.

projection of adequacy noted

I think it’d be generally agreed that humans (human activities) on earth have gone to a scale that it can be considered a force of nature, here on the planet and within its atmosphere, though i’m not sure how one’d separate the physical reality of that from the purposes of thinking it. Probably a philosophical question, and along with that’d have to be the question of at what point did humans become a force of nature.

If the entirety of human activities can be considered a force of nature, then I can’t see why that related of human consciousness might not be considered a force of nature. Not considered as in arriving at some absolute statement that that is the case, but considered as in thought about without an objective, that something may emerge as a consequence of considering it.

Electromagnetic theories of consciousness

The electromagnetic theories of consciousness propose that consciousness can be understood as an electromagnetic phenomenon.

Theorists differ in how they relate consciousness to electromagnetism. Electromagnetic field theories (or “EM field theories”) of consciousness propose that consciousness results when a brain produces an electromagnetic field with specific characteristics. Susan Pockett and Johnjoe McFadden have proposed EM field theories; William Uttal has criticized McFadden’s and other field theories.

Some electromagnetic theories are also quantum mind theories of consciousness; examples include quantum brain dynamics (QBD) approaches of Mari Jibu and Kunio Yasue and of Giuseppe Vitiello. In general, however, quantum mind theories other than these QBD approaches do not treat consciousness as an electromagnetic phenomenon.

Also related are E. Roy John’s work and Andrew and Alexander Fingelkurt’s theory “Operational Architectonics framework of brain-mind functioning”.

and

Cemi theory

The starting point for McFadden and Pockett’s theory is the fact that every time a neuron fires to generate an action potential, and a postsynaptic potential in the next neuron down the line, it also generates a disturbance in the surrounding Electromagnetic field. McFadden has proposed that the brain’s electromagnetic field creates a representation of the information in the neurons. Studies undertaken towards the end of the 20th century are argued to have shown that conscious experience correlates not with the number of neurons firing, but with the synchrony of that firing. McFadden views the brain’s electromagnetic field as arising from the induced EM field of neurons. The synchronous firing of neurons is, in this theory, argued to amplify the influence of the brain’s EM field fluctuations to a much greater extent than would be possible with the unsynchronized firing of neurons.

more…

The Brain wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain

The brain is an organ that serves as the center of the nervous system in all vertebrate and most invertebrate animals. Only a few invertebrates such as sponges, jellyfish, adult sea squirts and starfish do not have a brain; diffuse or localised nerve nets are present instead. The brain is located in the head, usually close to the primary sensory organs for such senses as vision, hearing, balance, taste, and smell. The brain is the most complex organ in a vertebrate’s body. In a typical human, the cerebral cortex (the largest part) is estimated to contain 15–33 billion neurons, each connected by synapses to several thousand other neurons. These neurons communicate with one another by means of long protoplasmic fibers called axons, which carry trains of signal pulses called action potentials to distant parts of the brain or body targeting specific recipient cells.

Physiologically, the function of the brain is to exert centralized control over the other organs of the body. The brain acts on the rest of the body both by generating patterns of muscle activity and by driving the secretion of chemicals called hormones. This centralized control allows rapid and coordinated responses to changes in the environment. Some basic types of responsiveness such as reflexes can be mediated by the spinal cord or peripheral ganglia, but sophisticated purposeful control of behavior based on complex sensory input requires the information integrating capabilities of a centralized brain.

The operations of individual brain cells are now understood in considerable detail but the way they cooperate in ensembles of millions is yet to be solved. Recent models in modern neuroscience treat the brain as a biological computer, very different in mechanism from an electronic computer, but similar in the sense that it acquires information from the surrounding world, stores it, and processes it in a variety of ways, analogous to the central processing unit (CPU) in a computer.

This article compares the properties of brains across the entire range of animal species, with the greatest attention to vertebrates. It deals with the human brain insofar as it shares the properties of other brains. The ways in which the human brain differs from other brains are covered in the human brain article. Several topics that might be covered here are instead covered there because much more can be said about them in a human context. The most important is brain disease and the effects of brain damage, covered in the human brain article because the most common diseases of the human brain either do not show up in other species, or else manifest themselves in different ways.

more…

and this bit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain

Electrical activity

As a side effect of the electrochemical processes used by neurons for signaling, brain tissue generates electric fields when it is active. When large numbers of neurons show synchronized activity, the electric fields that they generate can be large enough to detect outside the skull, using electroencephalography (EEG) or magnetoencephalography (MEG). EEG recordings, along with recordings made from electrodes implanted inside the brains of animals such as rats, show that the brain of a living animal is constantly active, even during sleep. Each part of the brain shows a mixture of rhythmic and nonrhythmic activity, which may vary according to behavioral state. In mammals, the cerebral cortex tends to show large slow delta waves during sleep, faster alpha waves when the animal is awake but inattentive, and chaotic-looking irregular activity when the animal is actively engaged in a task. During an epileptic seizure, the brain’s inhibitory control mechanisms fail to function and electrical activity rises to pathological levels, producing EEG traces that show large wave and spike patterns not seen in a healthy brain. Relating these population-level patterns to the computational functions of individual neurons is a major focus of current research in neurophysiology.

electrostatics aren’t a new force.

from the above articles form wiki

I see consciousness as eletro-magnetic and electro-chemical

so yes consciousness is a electro-magnetic force

after reading the articles it is a bit difficult to disagree that it is not a force

Does anyone agree?

most are saying no, when it looks like it is yes

and does it deal another blow to religion?

yes it it looks like science is dealing yet another blow to religion

consciousness is real and exists as an elecromagnetic-chemical force

and emotions are chemical/response to environment through electro-chemical sensory perception

emf is a force. consciousness isn’t. consciousness employs that force.

>after reading the articles it is a bit difficult to disagree that it is not a force

Consciousness is not defined by physics (which is what transition seems to be wanting here). “Force” in physics has its own meanings, carefully defined.

Cognitive characteristics like consciousness are described by sciences like biology and neuroscience, which don’t deal with basic stuff like “forces”.

ChrispenEvan said:

emf is a force. consciousness isn’t. consciousness employs that force.

neurons apply that electro-chemical force so are part of it

take away electrical activity and no one can think, imagine or dream

consciousness exists across neuron activity, as electro-chemical sensory input, process and memory, intent and react to environment, awareness of being

consciousness is real and exists as a part of that emf/chemical force

it is not separate from it because is apart of it

get real

I don’t subscribe to any religious notions of consciousness as separate from the body when clearly it is within it

and I don’t subscribe to any other notions of consciousness as separate from the body when clearly it is within it

as we are clearly within a universe and not separate from it

you are wrong.

Bubblecar said:

>after reading the articles it is a bit difficult to disagree that it is not a force

Consciousness is not defined by physics (which is what transition seems to be wanting here). “Force” in physics has its own meanings, carefully defined.

Cognitive characteristics like consciousness are described by sciences like biology and neuroscience, which don’t deal with basic stuff like “forces”.

we have accepted electromagnetic theory

we have accepted electro-chemical theory

it has been shown that there is an electromagnetic field around the brain

you are saying that biology and neuroscience are excluding electromagnetic forces around the brain when it has been shown that it exists?

?

To me it does not make sense to exlude something when it is clearly part of it

They have some work to do

no, i am not saying that. i’m saying tha consciousness isn’t a force but utilises the EM force.

>consciousness is real and exists as a part of that emf/chemical force

Nooo. We’re talking physical complexity on a much higher scale than is involved in the physics of forces, although those forces are involved in consciousness because they’re involved in everything.

I would have thought by now you would understand the distinction between the world studied by physics and the world studied by chemistry and biology.

ChrispenEvan said:

you are wrong.

nup, Im right

for some the past is easy as the answers are there

for others the future is difficult because people have to work out the answers

it blatantly obvious!

I’m annoyed now with some peoples lack of observation

it also utilises the strong force. to keep the nucleus of the atoms together.

>you are saying that biology and neuroscience are excluding electromagnetic forces around the brain when it has been shown that it exists?

Not at all, of course they accept all the physical factors involved. But consciousness is not a “force” – it’s a product of the biochemical processes of the CNS.

CrazyNeutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

you are wrong.

nup, Im right

for some the past is easy as the answers are there

for others the future is difficult because people have to work out the answers

it blatantly obvious!

I’m annoyed now with some peoples lack of observation

or lack of information

or lack of joining the dots together

that answer is there

consciousness is elecromagetic/electro chemical

take away the emf force from the human body and you have a corpse

transition said:

does consciousness qualify as a physical force

Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you’ll hear them speaking to you.”

transition said:

does consciousness qualify as a physical force

have you ever deliberately avoided observing something in order to avoid collapsing its wave function, or to avoid switching reality into a different universe? I did a couple of times, shortly after I first encountered quantum mechanics.

the brain has an electromagnetic field which is a force

everything under it and or within it is a part of that force

one one can just take out bits and discard them because it suits their way of thinking

CrazyNeutrino said:

the brain has an electromagnetic field which is a force

everything under it and or within it is a part of that force

one one can just take out bits and discard them because it suits their way of thinking

No-one disagrees with that. But transition asked: “does consciousness qualify as a physical force?”

Consciousness is a physical phenomenon, but to call it a “force” is just gibberish.

mollwollfumble said:

transition said:

does consciousness qualify as a physical force

have you ever deliberately avoided observing something in order to avoid collapsing its wave function, or to avoid switching reality into a different universe? I did a couple of times, shortly after I first encountered quantum mechanics.

I wish I could switch to a different universe

Bubblecar said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

the brain has an electromagnetic field which is a force

everything under it and or within it is a part of that force

one one can just take out bits and discard them because it suits their way of thinking

No-one disagrees with that. But transition asked: “does consciousness qualify as a physical force?”

Consciousness is a physical phenomenon, but to call it a “force” is just gibberish.

ok, Ill accept that

but the human body does have electrical properties that exist through space time

I wish I could switch to a different universe

personally i find this universe so marvellous that it seems a shame to die before seeing it all and comprehending it.

>Consciousness is not defined by physics (which is what transition seems to be wanting here).

nah, mate, but you’re sorta nearly there.

the idea is more what do you come up with if you consider it a force, and maybe a product of other forces over time, and whether it is new in any sense. Call it an algorithm or something.

biological life emerged – replicators – humans and human consciousness emerged.

the wife and I had a little discussion about this and I put to her how every-day-mundane is taking from experience of now and past and projecting of the future. She came up with the example that should she wash her knickers shortly/taday before going to the city, and what the implications of not washing her knickers would be, the alternate actions in the future.

we talked about whether the sheep and the dog have any idea of what if this and that doesn’t happen, are they in any sense aware this way.

then the conversation wandered into just how many what ifs a person might be dealing with on a moment to moment bases and how conventions/social expectations and ideology offer remedies/answers to the many and potentially exponential what ifs (like religion often does).

another thing came up earlier in the conversation, being that if we were separated by the entire expanse of the universe and thinking about what the other might be thinking, would each be influencing the behaviour of the other, just the wondering.

so, I suppose the question then is if wondering of what ifs part related of self-awareness is in any sense a force.

the parallel possibility in which I never wrote this post that exists with having written this post is a lot tidier that what this little monkey is typing.

ChrispenEvan said:

I wish I could switch to a different universe

personally i find this universe so marvellous that it seems a shame to die before seeing it all and comprehending it.

Besides, alternate universes are full of mutated monsters. Being able to revive yourself with energy packs doesn’t really make up for that.

Postpocelipse said:

ChrispenEvan said:

I wish I could switch to a different universe

personally i find this universe so marvellous that it seems a shame to die before seeing it all and comprehending it.

Besides, alternate universes are full of mutated monsters. Being able to revive yourself with energy packs doesn’t really make up for that.

Alright, Ill stay in this one.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Bubblecar said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

the brain has an electromagnetic field which is a force

everything under it and or within it is a part of that force

one one can just take out bits and discard them because it suits their way of thinking

No-one disagrees with that. But transition asked: “does consciousness qualify as a physical force?”

Consciousness is a physical phenomenon, but to call it a “force” is just gibberish.

ok, Ill accept that

but the human body does have electrical properties that exist through space time

What about Star Wars and the force?

monkey skipper said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Bubblecar said:

No-one disagrees with that. But transition asked: “does consciousness qualify as a physical force?”

Consciousness is a physical phenomenon, but to call it a “force” is just gibberish.

ok, Ill accept that

but the human body does have electrical properties that exist through space time

What about Star Wars and the force?

I liked the new movie

any move towards manipulating the electromagnetic force or any of the other forces that exist,

must either involve a human-cyborg of some description or genetic-engineering on a vast scale

think someone interacting with a implanted chip, but that chip can fly a spaceship

think octopuses with their higher DNA count as they can manipulate their bodies to change color etc, a human body could become like a cloaking device

CrazyNeutrino said:

Postpocelipse said:

ChrispenEvan said:

I wish I could switch to a different universe

personally i find this universe so marvellous that it seems a shame to die before seeing it all and comprehending it.

Besides, alternate universes are full of mutated monsters. Being able to revive yourself with energy packs doesn’t really make up for that.

Alright, Ill stay in this one.

Appreciated.

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Postpocelipse said:

Besides, alternate universes are full of mutated monsters. Being able to revive yourself with energy packs doesn’t really make up for that.

Alright, Ill stay in this one.

Appreciated.

One person’s monster is someone else’s Prince Charming

monkey skipper said:

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Alright, Ill stay in this one.

Appreciated.

One person’s monster is someone else’s Prince Charming

You haven’t played Half-Life then? If it has no discernible sophistication it is simply aggressively kinetic meat…….

What about Star Wars and the force?

i think that is a fictitious force, much like centrifugal and the coriolis forces.

:-)

CrazyNeutrino said:

monkey skipper said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

ok, Ill accept that

but the human body does have electrical properties that exist through space time

What about Star Wars and the force?

I liked the new movie

any move towards manipulating the electromagnetic force or any of the other forces that exist,

must either involve a human-cyborg of some description or genetic-engineering on a vast scale

think someone interacting with a implanted chip, but that chip can fly a spaceship

think octopuses with their higher DNA count as they can manipulate their bodies to change color etc, a human body could become like a cloaking device

>>>must either involve a human-cyborg of some description or genetic-engineering on a vast scale

or a combination of both opening up even more possibilities

Im not saying they are the only path way to humans accessing the use of energy around them

there could be many other ways

teleportation being another, but that is external

much better to have a human-cyborg/genetically engineered life form to be able to teleport itself

Gone

22 degrees

>>>think someone interacting with a implanted chip, but that chip can fly a spaceship

or an upgraded implanted chip that can operate any moving vehicle, sub, ship, car, plane, truck, boat, spaceship,

or operate an entire remote mining operation, planet forming operation, etc

implanted chips in the human brain could make drone flight way more accurate giving our military an edge

Amazing facts about octopuses

The Octopus Genome: Not “Alien” but Still a Big Problem for Darwinism

from evolution news

Surprisingly, the octopus genome turned out to be almost as large as a human’s and to contain a greater number of protein-coding genes — some 33,000, compared with fewer than 25,000 in Homo sapiens.

Octopus genome holds clues to uncanny intelligence

CrazyNeutrino said:

Amazing facts about octopuses

The Octopus Genome: Not “Alien” but Still a Big Problem for Darwinism

from evolution news

Surprisingly, the octopus genome turned out to be almost as large as a human’s and to contain a greater number of protein-coding genes — some 33,000, compared with fewer than 25,000 in Homo sapiens.

Octopus genome holds clues to uncanny intelligence

Why is it a surprise?

AwesomeO said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Amazing facts about octopuses

The Octopus Genome: Not “Alien” but Still a Big Problem for Darwinism

from evolution news

Surprisingly, the octopus genome turned out to be almost as large as a human’s and to contain a greater number of protein-coding genes — some 33,000, compared with fewer than 25,000 in Homo sapiens.

Octopus genome holds clues to uncanny intelligence

Why is it a surprise?

Some of nature’s readers are not well-read.

evolution news looks like an intelligent design site.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Amazing facts about octopuses

The Octopus Genome: Not “Alien” but Still a Big Problem for Darwinism

from evolution news

Surprisingly, the octopus genome turned out to be almost as large as a human’s and to contain a greater number of protein-coding genes — some 33,000, compared with fewer than 25,000 in Homo sapiens.

Octopus genome holds clues to uncanny intelligence

human with genetically modified genes will be able to do the same thing changing skin color to be any human shade or even other colors like green and blue, purple

be able to show text messages on their skin

be able to show movies on their skin

and for other parts of their skin to mimic small speakers

emotions could be shown as scales or as emoticons

inbuilt time and alarms for precise waking

all sorts of other stuff

a hand could grow a tool or a weapon

that sort of stuff

partners could have scrolling messages about how they feel

or playback a dream of their partner as a movie on their skin

very intimate

AwesomeO said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Amazing facts about octopuses

The Octopus Genome: Not “Alien” but Still a Big Problem for Darwinism

from evolution news

Surprisingly, the octopus genome turned out to be almost as large as a human’s and to contain a greater number of protein-coding genes — some 33,000, compared with fewer than 25,000 in Homo sapiens.

Octopus genome holds clues to uncanny intelligence

Why is it a surprise?

sorry,

I left off the other bit

now fixed

human with genetically modified genes will be able to do the same thing changing skin color to be any human shade or even other colors like green and blue, purple

be able to show text messages on their skin

be able to show movies on their skin

and for other parts of their skin to mimic small speakers

emotions could be shown as scales or as emoticons

inbuilt time and alarms for precise waking

all sorts of other stuff

a hand could grow a tool or a weapon

that sort of stuff

partners could have scrolling messages about how they feel

or playback a dream of their partner as a movie on their skin

very intimate

—-

Do you have a reputable reference for any of those claims?

and give tattoos will be given new life

as digital skin paintings

ChrispenEvan said:

evolution news looks like an intelligent design site.

yes

dv said:

human with genetically modified genes will be able to do the same thing changing skin color to be any human shade or even other colors like green and blue, purple

be able to show text messages on their skin

be able to show movies on their skin

and for other parts of their skin to mimic small speakers

emotions could be shown as scales or as emoticons

inbuilt time and alarms for precise waking

all sorts of other stuff

a hand could grow a tool or a weapon

that sort of stuff

partners could have scrolling messages about how they feel

or playback a dream of their partner as a movie on their skin

very intimate

—-

Do you have a reputable reference for any of those claims?

I’m in Science Fiction mode

CrazyNeutrino said:

think octopuses with their higher DNA count

It’s ‘octopodes’… and

can you expand further on that statement.

To me it makes no sence

>partners could have scrolling messages about how they feel

like a face

the dna count has nothing to do with an organisms complexity.

ftp://www.fourmilab.ch/web/goldberg/sizes.html

CrazyNeutrino said:

dv said:

human with genetically modified genes will be able to do the same thing changing skin color to be any human shade or even other colors like green and blue, purple

be able to show text messages on their skin

be able to show movies on their skin

and for other parts of their skin to mimic small speakers

emotions could be shown as scales or as emoticons

inbuilt time and alarms for precise waking

all sorts of other stuff

a hand could grow a tool or a weapon

that sort of stuff

partners could have scrolling messages about how they feel

or playback a dream of their partner as a movie on their skin

very intimate

—-

Do you have a reputable reference for any of those claims?

I’m in Science Fiction mode

I saw star wars about a week 2 weeks ago?

um without giving away spoilers

I would like to have a space ship I could control with an implanted chip

so if I had to leave in a hurry, that would be possible

the implanted chip uses wifi to access the ship, and then I can access the ships controls through the implanted chip or I let the autopilot do all the work

either way Im happy

cant say my driving skills are 100 percent

but Im working on it, its a work in progress, to improve my driving skills

it involves science

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

dv said:

human with genetically modified genes will be able to do the same thing changing skin color to be any human shade or even other colors like green and blue, purple

be able to show text messages on their skin

be able to show movies on their skin

and for other parts of their skin to mimic small speakers

emotions could be shown as scales or as emoticons

inbuilt time and alarms for precise waking

all sorts of other stuff

a hand could grow a tool or a weapon

that sort of stuff

partners could have scrolling messages about how they feel

or playback a dream of their partner as a movie on their skin

very intimate

—-

Do you have a reputable reference for any of those claims?

I’m in Science Fiction mode

I saw star wars about a week 2 weeks ago?

um without giving away spoilers

I would like to have a space ship I could control with an implanted chip

so if I had to leave in a hurry, that would be possible

the implanted chip uses wifi to access the ship, and then I can access the ships controls through the implanted chip or I let the autopilot do all the work

either way Im happy

cant say my driving skills are 100 percent

but Im working on it, its a work in progress, to improve my driving skills

it involves science

you better start saving…

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

think octopuses with their higher DNA count

It’s ‘octopodes’… and

can you expand further on that statement.

To me it makes no sence

An octopus can change its skin color due to genetic programming

we cannot, due to the fact of our genetic programming

but what if we found the octopodes genetic code for changing skin color and then merged it with people who wanted that capability, (excluding others who want to stay natural)

science involves imagination, that’s where science fiction comes in handy

some exhibitionists might find it useful

im sure it find many uses in the workforce

and in education

and in entertainment

lots of money to be made

a billion+ dollar industry

then theres implanted chips

more money

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

think octopuses with their higher DNA count

It’s ‘octopodes’… and

can you expand further on that statement.

To me it makes no sence

An octopus can change its skin color due to genetic programming

we cannot, due to the fact of our genetic programming

but what if we found the octopodes genetic code for changing skin color and then merged it with people who wanted that capability, (excluding others who want to stay natural)

science involves imagination, that’s where science fiction comes in handy

some exhibitionists might find it useful

im sure it find many uses in the workforce

and in education

and in entertainment

lots of money to be made

a billion+ dollar industry

then theres implanted chips

more money

an octopus can change its colour due to it evolving the required cells to do so.

Humans have no need to evolve those cells and therefore didn’t.

Genetic code isn’t going to make skin cells change colour because they aren’t meant to

money to be made

an industry born from innovation

out of existing information

information is everywhere, black holes in space time contain information, a whole galaxy contains information

genetic code is information, everything in the human body is information

we can manipulate information

being able to display information on human skin is very valurable advertizing space concerning those who can afford the technology

think sports superstars who might let an advertising company have access to playing ads on the superstars skin, on apporeite parts of his or her body

supermodels can display ads

mens and womens bodies can display all sorts of things

we manipulate the electrical properties of the human skin to be able to show and display images and moving images

stock exchange tickers can display information as moving text on human skin

its about money but its also about science and technology

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

It’s ‘octopodes’… and

can you expand further on that statement.

To me it makes no sence

An octopus can change its skin color due to genetic programming

we cannot, due to the fact of our genetic programming

but what if we found the octopodes genetic code for changing skin color and then merged it with people who wanted that capability, (excluding others who want to stay natural)

science involves imagination, that’s where science fiction comes in handy

some exhibitionists might find it useful

im sure it find many uses in the workforce

and in education

and in entertainment

lots of money to be made

a billion+ dollar industry

then theres implanted chips

more money

an octopus can change its colour due to it evolving the required cells to do so.

Humans have no need to evolve those cells and therefore didn’t.

Genetic code isn’t going to make skin cells change colour because they aren’t meant to

The world passes by some people Stumpy

thats how it is

if some people dont like what others do with their bodies that’s a dislike they carry, not those who want to do stuff like getting a tattoo or body piercing

those people have that right as a freedom over their own body

others who don’t want to do that also have that right to do nothing to their body

you cannot be a censor over other peoples wishes and wills over their own bodies

I imagine that the government will have strict laws

blade runner is a good movie to consider that sort of stuff

Ex Machina, the machine, Transcendence, Autómata etc

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

An octopus can change its skin color due to genetic programming

we cannot, due to the fact of our genetic programming

but what if we found the octopodes genetic code for changing skin color and then merged it with people who wanted that capability, (excluding others who want to stay natural)

science involves imagination, that’s where science fiction comes in handy

some exhibitionists might find it useful

im sure it find many uses in the workforce

and in education

and in entertainment

lots of money to be made

a billion+ dollar industry

then theres implanted chips

more money

an octopus can change its colour due to it evolving the required cells to do so.

Humans have no need to evolve those cells and therefore didn’t.

Genetic code isn’t going to make skin cells change colour because they aren’t meant to

The world passes by some people Stumpy

thats how it is

if some people dont like what others do with their bodies that’s a dislike they carry, not those who want to do stuff like getting a tattoo or body piercing

those people have that right as a freedom over their own body

others who don’t want to do that also have that right to do nothing to their body

you cannot be a censor over other peoples wishes and wills over their own bodies

I imagine that the government will have strict laws

blade runner is a good movie to consider that sort of stuff

Ex Machina, the machine, Transcendence, Autómata etc

I can imagine it being a nightmare for parents

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

An octopus can change its skin color due to genetic programming

we cannot, due to the fact of our genetic programming

but what if we found the octopodes genetic code for changing skin color and then merged it with people who wanted that capability, (excluding others who want to stay natural)

science involves imagination, that’s where science fiction comes in handy

some exhibitionists might find it useful

im sure it find many uses in the workforce

and in education

and in entertainment

lots of money to be made

a billion+ dollar industry

then theres implanted chips

more money

an octopus can change its colour due to it evolving the required cells to do so.

Humans have no need to evolve those cells and therefore didn’t.

Genetic code isn’t going to make skin cells change colour because they aren’t meant to

The world passes by some people Stumpy

thats how it is

if some people dont like what others do with their bodies that’s a dislike they carry, not those who want to do stuff like getting a tattoo or body piercing

those people have that right as a freedom over their own body

others who don’t want to do that also have that right to do nothing to their body

you cannot be a censor over other peoples wishes and wills over their own bodies

I imagine that the government will have strict laws

blade runner is a good movie to consider that sort of stuff

Ex Machina, the machine, Transcendence, Autómata etc

You been drinking the bong water again?

You really don’t unerstand any of the science behind anything you post, do you.

I know plenty about body modification, and know some of the best in the business. I am not in the business of judging anyone who wishes to change anything about their body.

What you don’t seem to understand that it’s not just a ‘jab them with a new genome and that’s fixed’

You’d need to skin a person, replace their skin with cells that have the ability to change colour. insert new nerves to control the cells, rewire the brain to be able to control those nerves and replace, not add to, their genes, so if they wanted that to occur, they would be better just being an octopus
It’s all about the money, hey?

Might need to change your handle to ‘CrazyNeutrino-Murdoch’…

the Chinese are already working on genetic-engineering

google Chinese genetic-engineering

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

an octopus can change its colour due to it evolving the required cells to do so.

Humans have no need to evolve those cells and therefore didn’t.

Genetic code isn’t going to make skin cells change colour because they aren’t meant to

The world passes by some people Stumpy

thats how it is

if some people dont like what others do with their bodies that’s a dislike they carry, not those who want to do stuff like getting a tattoo or body piercing

those people have that right as a freedom over their own body

others who don’t want to do that also have that right to do nothing to their body

you cannot be a censor over other peoples wishes and wills over their own bodies

I imagine that the government will have strict laws

blade runner is a good movie to consider that sort of stuff

Ex Machina, the machine, Transcendence, Autómata etc

You been drinking the bong water again?

You really don’t unerstand any of the science behind anything you post, do you.

I know plenty about body modification, and know some of the best in the business. I am not in the business of judging anyone who wishes to change anything about their body.

What you don’t seem to understand that it’s not just a ‘jab them with a new genome and that’s fixed’

You’d need to skin a person, replace their skin with cells that have the ability to change colour. insert new nerves to control the cells, rewire the brain to be able to control those nerves and replace, not add to, their genes, so if they wanted that to occur, they would be better just being an octopus
It’s all about the money, hey?

Might need to change your handle to ‘CrazyNeutrino-Murdoch’…

I will have a cone

and Ill pop outside to water the garden

stumpy_seahorse said:

You’d need to skin a person, replace their skin with cells that have the ability to change colour. insert new nerves to control the cells, rewire the brain to be able to control those nerves and replace, not add to, their genes, so if they wanted that to occur, they would be better just being an octopus
It’s all about the money, hey?

You realise it is entirely possible to skin a person so they remain alive right?

I know enough to realize that genetic modification does not involve skinning a person

things that are genetic are things like eye color, hair color, skin color, how high is person is, how many organs they have and what sort of organs, how many fingers we have, genetic modification is a slow process like pregnancy, thee are no sudden changes, obviously the octopodes ability to change its color is a process happening over time

Im off to water the garden

Ill be back

CrazyNeutrino said:

I know enough to realize that genetic modification does not involve skinning a person

things that are genetic are things like eye color, hair color, skin color, how high is person is, how many organs they have and what sort of organs, how many fingers we have, genetic modification is a slow process like pregnancy, thee are no sudden changes, obviously the octopodes ability to change its color is a process happening over time

Im off to water the garden

Ill be back

Inserting an chip implant will involve an incision

Postpocelipse said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

You’d need to skin a person, replace their skin with cells that have the ability to change colour. insert new nerves to control the cells, rewire the brain to be able to control those nerves and replace, not add to, their genes, so if they wanted that to occur, they would be better just being an octopus
It’s all about the money, hey?

You realise it is entirely possible to skin a person so they remain alive right?

how’s your skills with hooking up new nerve pathways from the brain to each area of the skin to control the new skin?

(a hist, even octopodes can’t do that, they have neuron clusters throughout their bodies to perform these functions.)

CrazyNeutrino said:

I know enough to realize that genetic modification does not involve skinning a person

things that are genetic are things like eye color, hair color, skin color, how high is person is, how many organs they have and what sort of organs, how many fingers we have, genetic modification is a slow process like pregnancy, thee are no sudden changes, obviously the octopodes ability to change its color is a process happening over time

Im off to water the garden

Ill be back

so skin cells are to magically gain the ability to change colour?

Postpocelipse said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

You’d need to skin a person, replace their skin with cells that have the ability to change colour. insert new nerves to control the cells, rewire the brain to be able to control those nerves and replace, not add to, their genes, so if they wanted that to occur, they would be better just being an octopus
It’s all about the money, hey?

You realise it is entirely possible to skin a person so they remain alive right?

It is? dubious.

AwesomeO said:

Postpocelipse said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

You’d need to skin a person, replace their skin with cells that have the ability to change colour. insert new nerves to control the cells, rewire the brain to be able to control those nerves and replace, not add to, their genes, so if they wanted that to occur, they would be better just being an octopus
It’s all about the money, hey?

You realise it is entirely possible to skin a person so they remain alive right?

It is? dubious.

He didn’t say entirely skin. I agree that it is a dubious claim.

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Postpocelipse said:

You realise it is entirely possible to skin a person so they remain alive right?

It is? dubious.

He didn’t say entirely skin. I agree that it is a dubious claim.

Skin a person to me means the entire skin. That’s the skinning process.

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Postpocelipse said:

You realise it is entirely possible to skin a person so they remain alive right?

It is? dubious.

He didn’t say entirely skin. I agree that it is a dubious claim.

alive for how long?

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I know enough to realize that genetic modification does not involve skinning a person

things that are genetic are things like eye color, hair color, skin color, how high is person is, how many organs they have and what sort of organs, how many fingers we have, genetic modification is a slow process like pregnancy, thee are no sudden changes, obviously the octopodes ability to change its color is a process happening over time

Im off to water the garden

Ill be back

so skin cells are to magically gain the ability to change colour?

from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus

An octopus’s primary defense is to hide or to disguise itself through camouflage and mimicry. Octopuses have several secondary defenses (defenses they use once they have been seen by a predator). The most common secondary defense is fast escape. Other defenses include distraction with the use of ink sacs and autotomising limbs.

Most octopuses can eject a thick, blackish ink in a large cloud to aid in escaping from predators. The main coloring agent of the ink is melanin, which is the same chemical that gives humans their hair and skin color. This ink cloud is thought to reduce the efficiency of olfactory organs, which would aid an octopus’s evasion from predators that employ smell for hunting, such as sharks. Ink clouds of some species might serve as pseudomorphs, or decoys that the predator attacks instead.

An octopus’s camouflage is aided by certain specialized skin cells which can change the apparent color, opacity, and reflectivity of the epidermis. Chromatophores contain yellow, orange, red, brown, or black pigments; most species have three of these colors, while some have two or four. Other color-changing cells are reflective iridophores, and leucophores (white). This color-changing ability can also be used to communicate with or warn other octopuses. The highly venomous blue-ringed octopus becomes bright yellow with blue rings when it is provoked. Octopuses can use muscles in the skin to change the texture of their mantle to achieve a greater camouflage. In some species, the mantle can take on the spiky appearance of seaweed, or the scraggly, bumpy texture of a rock, among other disguises. However, in some species, skin anatomy is limited to relatively patternless shades of one color, and limited skin texture. It is thought that octopuses that are day-active and/or live in complex habitats such as coral reefs have evolved more complex skin than their nocturnal and/or sand-dwelling relatives.

When under attack, some octopuses can perform arm autotomy, in a manner similar to the way skinks and other lizards detach their tails. The crawling arm serves as a distraction to would-be predators. Such severed arms remain sensitive to stimuli and move away from unpleasant sensations.

A few species, such as the mimic octopus, have a fourth defense mechanism. They can combine their highly flexible bodies with their color-changing ability to accurately mimic other, more dangerous animals, such as lionfish, sea snakes, and eels.

this bit

An octopus’s camouflage is aided by certain specialized skin cells which can change the apparent color, opacity, and reflectivity of the epidermis. Chromatophores contain yellow, orange, red, brown, or black pigments; most species have three of these colors, while some have two or four. Other color-changing cells are reflective iridophores, and leucophores (white). This color-changing ability can also be used to communicate with or warn other octopuses.

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I know enough to realize that genetic modification does not involve skinning a person

things that are genetic are things like eye color, hair color, skin color, how high is person is, how many organs they have and what sort of organs, how many fingers we have, genetic modification is a slow process like pregnancy, thee are no sudden changes, obviously the octopodes ability to change its color is a process happening over time

Im off to water the garden

Ill be back

so skin cells are to magically gain the ability to change colour?

from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus

An octopus’s primary defense is to hide or to disguise itself through camouflage and mimicry. Octopuses have several secondary defenses (defenses they use once they have been seen by a predator). The most common secondary defense is fast escape. Other defenses include distraction with the use of ink sacs and autotomising limbs.

Most octopuses can eject a thick, blackish ink in a large cloud to aid in escaping from predators. The main coloring agent of the ink is melanin, which is the same chemical that gives humans their hair and skin color. This ink cloud is thought to reduce the efficiency of olfactory organs, which would aid an octopus’s evasion from predators that employ smell for hunting, such as sharks. Ink clouds of some species might serve as pseudomorphs, or decoys that the predator attacks instead.

An octopus’s camouflage is aided by certain specialized skin cells which can change the apparent color, opacity, and reflectivity of the epidermis. Chromatophores contain yellow, orange, red, brown, or black pigments; most species have three of these colors, while some have two or four. Other color-changing cells are reflective iridophores, and leucophores (white). This color-changing ability can also be used to communicate with or warn other octopuses. The highly venomous blue-ringed octopus becomes bright yellow with blue rings when it is provoked. Octopuses can use muscles in the skin to change the texture of their mantle to achieve a greater camouflage. In some species, the mantle can take on the spiky appearance of seaweed, or the scraggly, bumpy texture of a rock, among other disguises. However, in some species, skin anatomy is limited to relatively patternless shades of one color, and limited skin texture. It is thought that octopuses that are day-active and/or live in complex habitats such as coral reefs have evolved more complex skin than their nocturnal and/or sand-dwelling relatives.

When under attack, some octopuses can perform arm autotomy, in a manner similar to the way skinks and other lizards detach their tails. The crawling arm serves as a distraction to would-be predators. Such severed arms remain sensitive to stimuli and move away from unpleasant sensations.

A few species, such as the mimic octopus, have a fourth defense mechanism. They can combine their highly flexible bodies with their color-changing ability to accurately mimic other, more dangerous animals, such as lionfish, sea snakes, and eels.

I have always said that once we can add this ability to tattoos, it’s going to make for some awesome ones

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I know enough to realize that genetic modification does not involve skinning a person

things that are genetic are things like eye color, hair color, skin color, how high is person is, how many organs they have and what sort of organs, how many fingers we have, genetic modification is a slow process like pregnancy, thee are no sudden changes, obviously the octopodes ability to change its color is a process happening over time

Im off to water the garden

Ill be back

so skin cells are to magically gain the ability to change colour?

from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus

An octopus’s primary defense is to hide or to disguise itself through camouflage and mimicry. Octopuses have several secondary defenses (defenses they use once they have been seen by a predator). The most common secondary defense is fast escape. Other defenses include distraction with the use of ink sacs and autotomising limbs.

Most octopuses can eject a thick, blackish ink in a large cloud to aid in escaping from predators. The main coloring agent of the ink is melanin, which is the same chemical that gives humans their hair and skin color. This ink cloud is thought to reduce the efficiency of olfactory organs, which would aid an octopus’s evasion from predators that employ smell for hunting, such as sharks. Ink clouds of some species might serve as pseudomorphs, or decoys that the predator attacks instead.

An octopus’s camouflage is aided by certain specialized skin cells which can change the apparent color, opacity, and reflectivity of the epidermis. Chromatophores contain yellow, orange, red, brown, or black pigments; most species have three of these colors, while some have two or four. Other color-changing cells are reflective iridophores, and leucophores (white). This color-changing ability can also be used to communicate with or warn other octopuses. The highly venomous blue-ringed octopus becomes bright yellow with blue rings when it is provoked. Octopuses can use muscles in the skin to change the texture of their mantle to achieve a greater camouflage. In some species, the mantle can take on the spiky appearance of seaweed, or the scraggly, bumpy texture of a rock, among other disguises. However, in some species, skin anatomy is limited to relatively patternless shades of one color, and limited skin texture. It is thought that octopuses that are day-active and/or live in complex habitats such as coral reefs have evolved more complex skin than their nocturnal and/or sand-dwelling relatives.

When under attack, some octopuses can perform arm autotomy, in a manner similar to the way skinks and other lizards detach their tails. The crawling arm serves as a distraction to would-be predators. Such severed arms remain sensitive to stimuli and move away from unpleasant sensations.

A few species, such as the mimic octopus, have a fourth defense mechanism. They can combine their highly flexible bodies with their color-changing ability to accurately mimic other, more dangerous animals, such as lionfish, sea snakes, and eels.

>>An octopus’s camouflage is aided by certain specialized skin cells which can change the apparent color, opacity, and reflectivity of the epidermis. Chromatophores contain yellow, orange, red, brown, or black pigments; most species have three of these colors, while some have two or four. Other color-changing cells are reflective iridophores, and leucophores (white).

which is exactly what human skin cells don’t have, and the reason they don’t change colour…

CrazyNeutrino said:

this bit

An octopus’s camouflage is aided by certain specialized skin cells which can change the apparent color, opacity, and reflectivity of the epidermis. Chromatophores contain yellow, orange, red, brown, or black pigments; most species have three of these colors, while some have two or four. Other color-changing cells are reflective iridophores, and leucophores (white). This color-changing ability can also be used to communicate with or warn other octopuses.

so tell me…

How are your chromatophores doing today..

Oh slaps forehead you don’t have them…

Arts said:

I have always said that once we can add this ability to tattoos, it’s going to make for some awesome ones

People could just get a dot-matrix of tattoo spots to display the name of their current partner. No need to remove it when they break up, just a blank screen for a while, and then the new partner’s name.

party_pants said:

Arts said:

I have always said that once we can add this ability to tattoos, it’s going to make for some awesome ones

People could just get a dot-matrix of tattoo spots to display the name of their current partner. No need to remove it when they break up, just a blank screen for a while, and then the new partner’s name.

solving the worlds problems one at a time :)

CrazyNeutrino said:

this bit

An octopus’s camouflage is aided by certain specialized skin cells which can change the apparent color, opacity, and reflectivity of the epidermis. Chromatophores contain yellow, orange, red, brown, or black pigments; most species have three of these colors, while some have two or four. Other color-changing cells are reflective iridophores, and leucophores (white). This color-changing ability can also be used to communicate with or warn other octopuses.

obviously there would be a process of ethics committees, research, delivery method and a trial period

the delivery method would like a vaccine

an injection, certain targets, mutation periods, new areas of the brain for processing new information

nerve connections formed and switches formed to allow manipulation

ways to reserve the process to return to normal

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Arts said:

I have always said that once we can add this ability to tattoos, it’s going to make for some awesome ones

People could just get a dot-matrix of tattoo spots to display the name of their current partner. No need to remove it when they break up, just a blank screen for a while, and then the new partner’s name.

solving the worlds problems one at a time :)

Vote 1 the Pants Party!

China shocks world by genetically engineering human embryos

China has been ordered to ‘rein in’ scientists who have edited the DNA of human embryos for the first time, a practice banned in Europe.

In a world’s first, researchers at the Sun Yat-sen University in Guangzhou confirmed they had engineered embryos to modify the gene responsible for the fatal blood disorder thalassaemia.

The team, led by Junjiu Huang attempted to head off fears of eugenics by claiming the embryos were ‘non-viable’ and could never had become babies.

But critics warned that China was becoming the ‘Wild West’ of genetic research saying it was the first step towards designer children and called for a worldwide ban on the practice.

The work was reported in the journal Protein and Cell after the prestigious science journals Nature and Science refused to publish the study on ethical grounds.

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

this bit

An octopus’s camouflage is aided by certain specialized skin cells which can change the apparent color, opacity, and reflectivity of the epidermis. Chromatophores contain yellow, orange, red, brown, or black pigments; most species have three of these colors, while some have two or four. Other color-changing cells are reflective iridophores, and leucophores (white). This color-changing ability can also be used to communicate with or warn other octopuses.

obviously there would be a process of ethics committees, research, delivery method and a trial period

the delivery method would like a vaccine

an injection, certain targets, mutation periods, new areas of the brain for processing new information

nerve connections formed and switches formed to allow manipulation

ways to reserve the process to return to normal

Dr Octopus.

CrazyNeutrino said:

China shocks world by genetically engineering human embryos

China has been ordered to ‘rein in’ scientists who have edited the DNA of human embryos for the first time, a practice banned in Europe.

In a world’s first, researchers at the Sun Yat-sen University in Guangzhou confirmed they had engineered embryos to modify the gene responsible for the fatal blood disorder thalassaemia.

The team, led by Junjiu Huang attempted to head off fears of eugenics by claiming the embryos were ‘non-viable’ and could never had become babies.

But critics warned that China was becoming the ‘Wild West’ of genetic research saying it was the first step towards designer children and called for a worldwide ban on the practice.

The work was reported in the journal Protein and Cell after the prestigious science journals Nature and Science refused to publish the study on ethical grounds.

Are they other teams doing similar work?

the chinese are smart – they are engineering people that will be better than the west

they will think faster, be stronger, see better (perhaps even in the dark) and have few genetic flaws

wookiemeister said:

the chinese are smart – they are engineering people that will be better than the west

they will think faster, be stronger, see better (perhaps even in the dark) and have few genetic flaws

you could genetically predispose them to be soldiers , have adaptive skin to meld into their background – no need for face cam perhaps

you’d just need to build in a specific “off” switch in case they go nuts

these genetic soldiers would just be put into field exercises every other day

you could make them so they have no “urges” – urges cost money and are useless to the country using them

have the controlled aggression and stamina needed but make sure they don’t want a wife – the army will be their wife – they could be eunuchs i guess

wookiemeister said:

the chinese are smart – they are engineering people that will be better than the west

they will think faster, be stronger, see better (perhaps even in the dark) and have few genetic flaws

they will hack faster, respond faster, travel faster than a speeding bullet, be able to blend in with the environment

they will be able to breed faster, and talk faster than Americans can

and they will start cloning the more intelligent ones that conform to any command

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

the chinese are smart – they are engineering people that will be better than the west

they will think faster, be stronger, see better (perhaps even in the dark) and have few genetic flaws

they will hack faster, respond faster, travel faster than a speeding bullet, be able to blend in with the environment

they will be able to breed faster, and talk faster than Americans can

and they will start cloning the more intelligent ones that conform to any command

Bullshit. The only thing they’ll get is bigger dicks…..

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

the chinese are smart – they are engineering people that will be better than the west

they will think faster, be stronger, see better (perhaps even in the dark) and have few genetic flaws

they will hack faster, respond faster, travel faster than a speeding bullet, be able to blend in with the environment

they will be able to breed faster, and talk faster than Americans can

and they will start cloning the more intelligent ones that conform to any command

Bullshit. The only thing they’ll get is bigger dicks…..

and a sexy woman advertising coke on her boobs

CrazyNeutrino said:

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

they will hack faster, respond faster, travel faster than a speeding bullet, be able to blend in with the environment

they will be able to breed faster, and talk faster than Americans can

and they will start cloning the more intelligent ones that conform to any command

Bullshit. The only thing they’ll get is bigger dicks…..

and a sexy woman advertising coke on her boobs

:P

wookiemeister said:

these genetic soldiers would just be put into field exercises every other day

you could make them so they have no “urges” – urges cost money and are useless to the country using them

have the controlled aggression and stamina needed but make sure they don’t want a wife – the army will be their wife – they could be eunuchs i guess

what sort of urge was that

having no urges

no sexual diseases striking the army and no chance the enemy could by chance be impregnanted

the only problem could be the enemy taking a sample of your soldiers and making their own soldiers that have allegiance to them

you need a soldier with a shorter lifetime

in a battle situation its unlikely they would last very long

if they lived say 30 years then keeled over from old age it would mean no loose cannons on deck

after a few decades have gone by even the dumbest of them would start to realise they weren’t meant to get of this alive – sure some might desert

you’d need to keep them entertained – video games etc, maybe some drug use perhaps?

you’d ideally breed them and keep them away from society in most cases – they see themselves as the elite and are kept separate

>having no urges

what sort of urges

by dying early it means no pensions

those seriously injured would have to be allowed to bleed out once their paramedics took them to the “hospital”

no one ever comes back from the hospital

you create a throwaway soldier

transition said:

>having no urges

what sort of urges

to talk long into the night about old coins and books and similar

wookiemeister said:

by dying early it means no pensions

those seriously injured would have to be allowed to bleed out once their paramedics took them to the “hospital”

no one ever comes back from the hospital

you create a throwaway soldier

There are no pensions now. In Australia at least. I think so in Britian as well.

wookiemeister said:

having no urges

no sexual diseases striking the army and no chance the enemy could by chance be impregnanted

the only problem could be the enemy taking a sample of your soldiers and making their own soldiers that have allegiance to them

what bothers me is that the Chinese military might be working on how to make their soldiers camouflaged by using genetic engineering, and as you say using genetic engineering to perform
domestic and military algorithms faster

sexual urges could be genetically controlled to control the soldiers time more efficiently

also making the solder more focused on doing their job and being more productive

AwesomeO said:

wookiemeister said:

by dying early it means no pensions

those seriously injured would have to be allowed to bleed out once their paramedics took them to the “hospital”

no one ever comes back from the hospital

you create a throwaway soldier

There are no pensions now. In Australia at least. I think so in Britian as well.

there are for veterans

thats the problem with the military i think, if you’ve got any sense or you are given some advice you do one stint perhaps and get out and get a trade.

a lot of them go into it and decide to leave when they are 30 + big mistake, its unlikely you can translate much to civilian life unless you have some niche skill

its a gravy train really if you do it right , it would be sad if you were 45 years old and still being barked at by NCOs half your age

you could always do mercenary work i guess just don’t get injured or overwhelmed by the mob or you’ll end up being dragged through the streets and strung up

wookiemeister said:

you need a soldier with a shorter lifetime

in a battle situation its unlikely they would last very long

if they lived say 30 years then keeled over from old age it would mean no loose cannons on deck

after a few decades have gone by even the dumbest of them would start to realise they weren’t meant to get of this alive – sure some might desert

you’d need to keep them entertained – video games etc, maybe some drug use perhaps?

you’d ideally breed them and keep them away from society in most cases – they see themselves as the elite and are kept separate

genetic engineering could repair wounds faster and even reverse the aging process

genetic engineering could also program the soldiers minds in many other ways, speeding up intense decision making processes etc like assessing civilians from the enemy

interfacing them with chips to enable many other capabilities

I think a modern ethics committee would have a problem with some of these ideas.

They would have been controversial even in the Victorian era I think.

>sexual urges could be genetically controlled to control the soldiers time more efficiently

where’s sigmund when you need him

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

having no urges

no sexual diseases striking the army and no chance the enemy could by chance be impregnanted

the only problem could be the enemy taking a sample of your soldiers and making their own soldiers that have allegiance to them

what bothers me is that the Chinese military might be working on how to make their soldiers camouflaged by using genetic engineering, and as you say using genetic engineering to perform
domestic and military algorithms faster

sexual urges could be genetically controlled to control the soldiers time more efficiently

also making the solder more focused on doing their job and being more productive

the chinese use their brains to fight wars

they’ll be happy to take on some monks in tibet – less likely to commit to a war with a professional army – they lose lots of troops and money

the art of war is their manual – use bribes to win a war

the liberal government has signed away the australian people and sold them into slavery with the free trade agreement

you conquer by bribing the ministers in control or their mates who own them

wookiemeister said:

AwesomeO said:

wookiemeister said:

by dying early it means no pensions

those seriously injured would have to be allowed to bleed out once their paramedics took them to the “hospital”

no one ever comes back from the hospital

you create a throwaway soldier

There are no pensions now. In Australia at least. I think so in Britian as well.

there are for veterans

thats the problem with the military i think, if you’ve got any sense or you are given some advice you do one stint perhaps and get out and get a trade.

a lot of them go into it and decide to leave when they are 30 + big mistake, its unlikely you can translate much to civilian life unless you have some niche skill

its a gravy train really if you do it right , it would be sad if you were 45 years old and still being barked at by NCOs half your age

you could always do mercenary work i guess just don’t get injured or overwhelmed by the mob or you’ll end up being dragged through the streets and strung up

No, I am one of the last cohorts 1981 to get the lifetime pension, shortly after they got the MSBS which is a lump sum payment. Service related injuries however have lifetime funding.

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

you need a soldier with a shorter lifetime

in a battle situation its unlikely they would last very long

if they lived say 30 years then keeled over from old age it would mean no loose cannons on deck

after a few decades have gone by even the dumbest of them would start to realise they weren’t meant to get of this alive – sure some might desert

you’d need to keep them entertained – video games etc, maybe some drug use perhaps?

you’d ideally breed them and keep them away from society in most cases – they see themselves as the elite and are kept separate

genetic engineering could repair wounds faster and even reverse the aging process

genetic engineering could also program the soldiers minds in many other ways, speeding up intense decision making processes etc like assessing civilians from the enemy

interfacing them with chips to enable many other capabilities

civillian casualties are irrelevant as seen from all wars

bombing civillian areas is a terrible waste of bombs – never bomb cities or attack the civillian populace its an easy kill but a waste of bombs and bullets. i’d gaol the man that started shooting civillians because its a waste of money that prolongs the war

you always attack and destroy valuable things that the elites need to keep the war going

the enemy never considers its own people valuable

transition said:

>sexual urges could be genetically controlled to control the soldiers time more efficiently

where’s sigmund when you need him

they are many sexual harassment cases in any military force where males and females are present

efficiency gets a major hit

morale gets a major hit

it would be of great interest to the military to stop soldiers from harassing others

in other words having the solders at top condition and focused on the job rather than playing with their dicks

AwesomeO said:

wookiemeister said:

AwesomeO said:

There are no pensions now. In Australia at least. I think so in Britian as well.

there are for veterans

thats the problem with the military i think, if you’ve got any sense or you are given some advice you do one stint perhaps and get out and get a trade.

a lot of them go into it and decide to leave when they are 30 + big mistake, its unlikely you can translate much to civilian life unless you have some niche skill

its a gravy train really if you do it right , it would be sad if you were 45 years old and still being barked at by NCOs half your age

you could always do mercenary work i guess just don’t get injured or overwhelmed by the mob or you’ll end up being dragged through the streets and strung up

No, I am one of the last cohorts 1981 to get the lifetime pension, shortly after they got the MSBS which is a lump sum payment. Service related injuries however have lifetime funding.

yeah its hard to get through without injury

i’d say do 5 years and then get out and do somethign with your life

military personnel are always expendable and rarely have a general of any worth to win wars in short time periods

the russians and syrians are making mistakes bombing cities

in those areas its the transport system you attack – its wide open to anyone to see and very fragile

On my pension, if I am married, after my death, my spouse gets a portion of the pension for the rest of her life.

CrazyNeutrino said:

transition said:

>sexual urges could be genetically controlled to control the soldiers time more efficiently

where’s sigmund when you need him

they are many sexual harassment cases in any military force where males and females are present

efficiency gets a major hit

morale gets a major hit

it would be of great interest to the military to stop soldiers from harassing others

in other words having the solders at top condition and focused on the job rather than playing with their dicks

females on the battle field will cause more problems than solutions

if they get their face blown off that’s up to them for wanting to be GI jane

the best use of them is sniper and logistics/ trainers

its a waste of money and time putting them on the battle field because they are lumbering targets

in the art of war sun tzu trains the concubines to take orders and march around like soldiers but not for one moment does he even think of putting them into battle – its not efficient

AwesomeO said:

On my pension, if I am married, after my death, my spouse gets a portion of the pension for the rest of her life.

marry someone quick

the kurds use women but i believe they take heavy casualties when they use them

the israelis stopped using them after / during 1948

the women were dying off like flies – they use them in training/ medics/ intelligence positions now

wookiemeister said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

transition said:

>sexual urges could be genetically controlled to control the soldiers time more efficiently

where’s sigmund when you need him

they are many sexual harassment cases in any military force where males and females are present

efficiency gets a major hit

morale gets a major hit

it would be of great interest to the military to stop soldiers from harassing others

in other words having the solders at top condition and focused on the job rather than playing with their dicks

females on the battle field will cause more problems than solutions

if they get their face blown off that’s up to them for wanting to be GI jane

the best use of them is sniper and logistics/ trainers

its a waste of money and time putting them on the battle field because they are lumbering targets

in the art of war sun tzu trains the concubines to take orders and march around like soldiers but not for one moment does he even think of putting them into battle – its not efficient

I think trained female solders are just as good as trained male soldiers

they have been many examples of successful female snipers

Lyudmila Pavlichenko was one of 2,000 female snipers in the Red Army, herself scoring 309 kills

AwesomeO said:

On my pension, if I am married, after my death, my spouse gets a portion of the pension for the rest of her life.

thread hijack…

They did this in the USA, many years after the Civil War. there was a sudden flurry of marriages of old veterans in their 60s and 70s to young teenage brides. It was seen as good insurance by the families of the brides, they would have a reliable income for the rest of their lives, and could support the extended family in tough times.

CrazyNeutrino said:

transition said:

>sexual urges could be genetically controlled to control the soldiers time more efficiently

where’s sigmund when you need him

they are many sexual harassment cases in any military force where males and females are present

efficiency gets a major hit

morale gets a major hit

it would be of great interest to the military to stop soldiers from harassing others

in other words having the solders at top condition and focused on the job rather than playing with their dicks

Same thing happens in universities but it’s more prevalent. Major is overstating it though.

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

they are many sexual harassment cases in any military force where males and females are present

efficiency gets a major hit

morale gets a major hit

it would be of great interest to the military to stop soldiers from harassing others

in other words having the solders at top condition and focused on the job rather than playing with their dicks

females on the battle field will cause more problems than solutions

if they get their face blown off that’s up to them for wanting to be GI jane

the best use of them is sniper and logistics/ trainers

its a waste of money and time putting them on the battle field because they are lumbering targets

in the art of war sun tzu trains the concubines to take orders and march around like soldiers but not for one moment does he even think of putting them into battle – its not efficient

I think trained female solders are just as good as trained male soldiers

they have been many examples of successful female snipers

Lyudmila Pavlichenko was one of 2,000 female snipers in the Red Army, herself scoring 309 kills

yes – as i said – as a sniper

but those kills might not have been against other snipers but regular troops

house to house/ battle field fighting don’t do it

party_pants said:

AwesomeO said:

On my pension, if I am married, after my death, my spouse gets a portion of the pension for the rest of her life.

thread hijack…

They did this in the USA, many years after the Civil War. there was a sudden flurry of marriages of old veterans in their 60s and 70s to young teenage brides. It was seen as good insurance by the families of the brides, they would have a reliable income for the rest of their lives, and could support the extended family in tough times.

Same on the DFRDB pension, old and bonds getting young Asian brides.

the british used to load their hospitalised veterans onto ships in stretchers and declare them sailors – they would be dead from weeks from scurvy and dumped over the side

Stop seeing women as inferior, they are the same.

Two women qualify as US army rangers

Two women have made military history after becoming the first female soldiers to pass the US army’s gruelling ranger course.

more..

US Navy Seals plan to accept women after female soldiers graduate as rangers

The US Navy Seals plan to allow women into their teams, an admiral says, days after the army announced that two soldiers would be the first women to graduate from the elite and gruelling

“We’re on a track to say: ‘Hey look, anybody who can meet the gender non-specific standards, then you can become a Seal,’” Admiral Jon Greenert told the Navy Times on Tuesday.

more..

The 14 Most Impressive Women In The US Military

CrazyNeutrino said:

Stop seeing women as inferior, they are the same.

Two women qualify as US army rangers

Two women have made military history after becoming the first female soldiers to pass the US army’s gruelling ranger course.

more..

US Navy Seals plan to accept women after female soldiers graduate as rangers

The US Navy Seals plan to allow women into their teams, an admiral says, days after the army announced that two soldiers would be the first women to graduate from the elite and gruelling

“We’re on a track to say: ‘Hey look, anybody who can meet the gender non-specific standards, then you can become a Seal,’” Admiral Jon Greenert told the Navy Times on Tuesday.

more..

The 14 Most Impressive Women In The US Military

Whilst not inferior they are not the same. Generally women are smaller and not as strong. We are a sexually dimorphic species.

AwesomeO said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Stop seeing women as inferior, they are the same.

Two women qualify as US army rangers

Two women have made military history after becoming the first female soldiers to pass the US army’s gruelling ranger course.

more..

US Navy Seals plan to accept women after female soldiers graduate as rangers

The US Navy Seals plan to allow women into their teams, an admiral says, days after the army announced that two soldiers would be the first women to graduate from the elite and gruelling

“We’re on a track to say: ‘Hey look, anybody who can meet the gender non-specific standards, then you can become a Seal,’” Admiral Jon Greenert told the Navy Times on Tuesday.

more..

The 14 Most Impressive Women In The US Military

Whilst not inferior they are not the same. Generally women are smaller and not as strong. We are a sexually dimorphic species.

Quite. The modern man has opposable thumbs and uses tools these days.

AwesomeO said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Stop seeing women as inferior, they are the same.

Two women qualify as US army rangers

Two women have made military history after becoming the first female soldiers to pass the US army’s gruelling ranger course.

more..

US Navy Seals plan to accept women after female soldiers graduate as rangers

The US Navy Seals plan to allow women into their teams, an admiral says, days after the army announced that two soldiers would be the first women to graduate from the elite and gruelling

“We’re on a track to say: ‘Hey look, anybody who can meet the gender non-specific standards, then you can become a Seal,’” Admiral Jon Greenert told the Navy Times on Tuesday.

more..

The 14 Most Impressive Women In The US Military

Whilst not inferior they are not the same. Generally women are smaller and not as strong. We are a sexually dimorphic species.

In general, maybe, but everyone comes in different shapes and sizes

CrazyNeutrino said:

AwesomeO said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Stop seeing women as inferior, they are the same.

Two women qualify as US army rangers

Two women have made military history after becoming the first female soldiers to pass the US army’s gruelling ranger course.

more..

US Navy Seals plan to accept women after female soldiers graduate as rangers

The US Navy Seals plan to allow women into their teams, an admiral says, days after the army announced that two soldiers would be the first women to graduate from the elite and gruelling

“We’re on a track to say: ‘Hey look, anybody who can meet the gender non-specific standards, then you can become a Seal,’” Admiral Jon Greenert told the Navy Times on Tuesday.

more..

The 14 Most Impressive Women In The US Military

Whilst not inferior they are not the same. Generally women are smaller and not as strong. We are a sexually dimorphic species.

In general, maybe, but everyone comes in different shapes and sizes

Read something about sexual dimorphism and what it means. Not the same.

wookiemeister said:

the british used to load their hospitalised veterans onto ships in stretchers and declare them sailors – they would be dead from weeks from scurvy and dumped over the side

ref?

AwesomeO said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

AwesomeO said:

Whilst not inferior they are not the same. Generally women are smaller and not as strong. We are a sexually dimorphic species.

In general, maybe, but everyone comes in different shapes and sizes

Read something about sexual dimorphism and what it means. Not the same.

http://s94.photobucket.com/user/mnis/media/funnies/bigwoman.jpg.html

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

the british used to load their hospitalised veterans onto ships in stretchers and declare them sailors – they would be dead from weeks from scurvy and dumped over the side

ref?

I think a couple of elements are true, sailers did die of scurvy, hospital ships, all ships dumped the dead overboard. But wookie seems to be implying that as a matter of policy the navy would take onto its rolls injured soldiers, likewise the army would transfer them, and maltreat them so they died as a means of saving the government pensions.

Yeah that requires a ref. But I didn’t bother asking cos frankly this entire thread has been a madhouse of assertions stated as fact or plausible possibilities and most of them outlandish.

AwesomeO said:

Yeah that requires a ref. But I didn’t bother asking cos frankly this entire thread has been a madhouse of assertions stated as fact or plausible possibilities and most of them outlandish.

I happen to have been born in Outland and take that turn of phrase personally……….

Does it blend? The iPad

transition said:

does consciousness qualify as a physical force

Not in any dictionary definition of “physical force” anyway.

Having read part of the thread, and remembered that this isn’t really a science forum any more, I’m going to retract that.

I think that consciousness could indeed be considered a “force of nature”, so it is a force in a dictionary definition sense, if not a strict scientific sense.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Having read part of the thread, and remembered that this isn’t really a science forum any more, I’m going to retract that.

I think that consciousness could indeed be considered a “force of nature”, so it is a force in a dictionary definition sense, if not a strict scientific sense.

The combined consciousness?

CrazyNeutrino said:

transition said:

>sexual urges could be genetically controlled to control the soldiers time more efficiently

where’s sigmund when you need him

they are many sexual harassment cases in any military force where males and females are present

efficiency gets a major hit

morale gets a major hit

it would be of great interest to the military to stop soldiers from harassing others

in other words having the solders at top condition and focused on the job rather than playing with their dicks

a) I don’t get what it’s got to do with the OP subject.
b) to indulge you for a moment – sexual desire is strongly associated with breeding (the sky is blue) and the desire to live/for life.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Having read part of the thread, and remembered that this isn’t really a science forum any more, I’m going to retract that.

I think that consciousness could indeed be considered a “force of nature”, so it is a force in a dictionary definition sense, if not a strict scientific sense.

If ‘ability to institute change’ passes as a universal definition of force then consciousness has to be. I’d still split the hair that the EM producing brain functions referred to earlier constitute the classic definition of ego as described by buddhism, ie; reflexes are built on experience and/or the ability of the individual to accurately predict the outcome of imagined circumstances. The latter talent, being less than reliable, makes a passable equivalent for the ‘obscuration of nature’ referred to in buddhism.

i’d expect as soon as something emerged that could contemplate the consequences of not wiping its arse properly some new force emerged in the universe.

transition said:

i’d expect as soon as something emerged that could contemplate the consequences of not wiping its arse properly some new force emerged in the universe.

cleanliness?

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Having read part of the thread, and remembered that this isn’t really a science forum any more, I’m going to retract that.

I think that consciousness could indeed be considered a “force of nature”, so it is a force in a dictionary definition sense, if not a strict scientific sense.

The combined consciousness?

Not what I had in mind.

Unless you mean the combined effect of individual consciousnesses, in which case, yes.

transition said:

i’d expect as soon as something emerged that could contemplate the consequences of not wiping its arse properly some new force emerged in the universe.

I think I agree.

It’s interesting that the limited mechanics definition of “force” is so ingrained here (including on me), that it blinds us to the more general meaning.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

i’d expect as soon as something emerged that could contemplate the consequences of not wiping its arse properly some new force emerged in the universe.

I think I agree.

It’s interesting that the limited mechanics definition of “force” is so ingrained here (including on me), that it blinds us to the more general meaning.

The original post asks whether it is a “physical force”. That is a fairly well defined concept.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

i’d expect as soon as something emerged that could contemplate the consequences of not wiping its arse properly some new force emerged in the universe.

I think I agree.

It’s interesting that the limited mechanics definition of “force” is so ingrained here (including on me), that it blinds us to the more general meaning.

The original post asks whether it is a “physical force”. That is a fairly well defined concept.

OK, but even “physical force” could be taken to mean anything that physically changes the direction of change of some object or system.

>OK, but even “physical force” could be taken to mean anything that physically changes the direction of change of some object or system.

It can, seen that way I think it qualifies.

AwesomeO said:

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

the british used to load their hospitalised veterans onto ships in stretchers and declare them sailors – they would be dead from weeks from scurvy and dumped over the side

ref?

I think a couple of elements are true, sailers did die of scurvy, hospital ships, all ships dumped the dead overboard. But wookie seems to be implying that as a matter of policy the navy would take onto its rolls injured soldiers, likewise the army would transfer them, and maltreat them so they died as a means of saving the government pensions.

Yeah that requires a ref. But I didn’t bother asking cos frankly this entire thread has been a madhouse of assertions stated as fact or plausible possibilities and most of them outlandish.

read the top paragraph

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=bb9xPf6JqLgC&pg=PT164&lpg=PT164&dq=napoleonic+war+veterans+scurvy&source=bl&ots=MUlqXVIBCj&sig=8rUugww7×19i6cgcmw160FxWn3Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi33r6Jo4rKAhWBJaYKHd9JCGQQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=napoleonic%20war%20veterans%20scurvy&f=false

wookiemeister said:

AwesomeO said:

dv said:

ref?

I think a couple of elements are true, sailers did die of scurvy, hospital ships, all ships dumped the dead overboard. But wookie seems to be implying that as a matter of policy the navy would take onto its rolls injured soldiers, likewise the army would transfer them, and maltreat them so they died as a means of saving the government pensions.

Yeah that requires a ref. But I didn’t bother asking cos frankly this entire thread has been a madhouse of assertions stated as fact or plausible possibilities and most of them outlandish.

read the top paragraph

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=bb9xPf6JqLgC&pg=PT164&lpg=PT164&dq=napoleonic+war+veterans+scurvy&source=bl&ots=MUlqXVIBCj&sig=8rUugww7×19i6cgcmw160FxWn3Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi33r6Jo4rKAhWBJaYKHd9JCGQQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=napoleonic%20war%20veterans%20scurvy&f=false

The squadron assembled at Portsmouth but problems remained. The Admiralty and the government were keen to avoid high costs. They decided that the squadron should carry only 96 marines, ‘and instead of land forces, their place should be supplied with 500 invalids, collected from the out-pensioners of Chelsea College’. Five hundred Chelsea pensioners were thus ordered to march from Chelsea to Portsmouth for embarkation. Only 259 arrived in Portsmouth! The rest had ‘disappeared’ en route. The ‘Gloucester’s log referred to them as ‘invalids’. The C-in-C Portsmouth, Sir John Norris, refused to provide extra men. The marines were used during voyages to guard the stores and the officers’ quarters, but in sea battles they were ‘sharp-shooters’, firing from the ship’s upper rigging or the quarter deck. They played the leading part in any landing force. The ‘Gloucester’s crew was joined by 54 ‘invalids’ and 20 marines.
http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/external/cumnor/articles/mariner.htm

The larger ships carried a chaplain, surgeon and a schoolmaster to provide instruction in mathematics and navigation for the boys. It was a chaplain, Richard Walter, who witnessed the embarkation of the pensioners on their arrival from Chelsea: ‘Indeed it is difficult to conceive of a more moving scene than the embarkation of these unhappy veterans; they were themselves extremely averse to the service they were engaged in and fully appraised of all the disasters they were afterwards exposed to.’ Not one pensioner was to survive the voyage.

wookiemeister said:

The larger ships carried a chaplain, surgeon and a schoolmaster to provide instruction in mathematics and navigation for the boys. It was a chaplain, Richard Walter, who witnessed the embarkation of the pensioners on their arrival from Chelsea: ‘Indeed it is difficult to conceive of a more moving scene than the embarkation of these unhappy veterans; they were themselves extremely averse to the service they were engaged in and fully appraised of all the disasters they were afterwards exposed to.’ Not one pensioner was to survive the voyage.

How exactly does wookie steer every subject into military story rehashing?

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

The larger ships carried a chaplain, surgeon and a schoolmaster to provide instruction in mathematics and navigation for the boys. It was a chaplain, Richard Walter, who witnessed the embarkation of the pensioners on their arrival from Chelsea: ‘Indeed it is difficult to conceive of a more moving scene than the embarkation of these unhappy veterans; they were themselves extremely averse to the service they were engaged in and fully appraised of all the disasters they were afterwards exposed to.’ Not one pensioner was to survive the voyage.

How exactly does wookie steer every subject into military story rehashing?

He’s wookie the wonder crank. His feats seem remarkable but we have to take into account that there are probably 1000s of cranks that are less successful.

dv said:

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

The larger ships carried a chaplain, surgeon and a schoolmaster to provide instruction in mathematics and navigation for the boys. It was a chaplain, Richard Walter, who witnessed the embarkation of the pensioners on their arrival from Chelsea: ‘Indeed it is difficult to conceive of a more moving scene than the embarkation of these unhappy veterans; they were themselves extremely averse to the service they were engaged in and fully appraised of all the disasters they were afterwards exposed to.’ Not one pensioner was to survive the voyage.

How exactly does wookie steer every subject into military story rehashing?

He’s wookie the wonder crank. His feats seem remarkable but we have to take into account that there are probably 1000s of cranks that are less successful.

I guess he could have turned his crank powers to evil like the Trump did.

Pat Boone

>The original post asks whether it is a “physical force”. That is a fairly well defined concept.

There’s physics the formalisms (the subject), and then there’s the actual physics of the world, then you have the understandings of physics within the physics too.

The two meet via experience some, like the body-vehicle (and mind) operating within the physics of the world, and too it evolved of/from and within this world.

It might be argued conciousness doesn’t qualify because it’s not reducable to whatever irreducible (forces few or singular). Not sure doing so does much for developing any working-concept of physical force, in the context of what might be newly emerged, or emergent, or an emergent force, which might be seen as an emergent property.

I think the moment we experience as now starts with there is a future, and that projections of the future (anticipation etc) are somewhat derived from parallel events (some overlap of time) extending backward, and that probabilites of things now and into the future are influences by recession of events (in time).

Why Physicists Are Saying Consciousness Is A State Of Matter, Like a Solid, A Liquid Or A Gas

Postpocelipse said:

Why Physicists Are Saying Consciousness Is A State Of Matter, Like a Solid, A Liquid Or A Gas

Fucking rubbish.

dv said:

Postpocelipse said:

Why Physicists Are Saying Consciousness Is A State Of Matter, Like a Solid, A Liquid Or A Gas

Fucking rubbish.

You could expand on that insight but I only threw it up for transition to peruse.

Postpocelipse said:

dv said:

Postpocelipse said:

Why Physicists Are Saying Consciousness Is A State Of Matter, Like a Solid, A Liquid Or A Gas

Fucking rubbish.

You could expand on that insight but I only threw it up for transition to peruse.

It’s interesting but basically metaphorical and seems a very oversimplified and probably inaccurate model of what’s actually going on in consciousness. But Tegmark is famous for allowing himself some wild conjectures, for the fun of it.

Bubblecar said:

Postpocelipse said:

dv said:

Fucking rubbish.

You could expand on that insight but I only threw it up for transition to peruse.

It’s interesting but basically metaphorical and seems a very oversimplified and probably inaccurate model of what’s actually going on in consciousness. But Tegmark is famous for allowing himself some wild conjectures, for the fun of it.

Also shitbox journalism, referring to the view of one fringe troll and starting the headline with “Why physicists think…”

dv said:

Also shitbox journalism, referring to the view of one fringe troll and starting the headline with “Why physicists think…”

I agree that the headline is stupid but I wouldn’t call Tegmark a “troll”.

Bubblecar said:

Postpocelipse said:

dv said:

Fucking rubbish.

You could expand on that insight but I only threw it up for transition to peruse.

It’s interesting but basically metaphorical and seems a very oversimplified and probably inaccurate model of what’s actually going on in consciousness. But Tegmark is famous for allowing himself some wild conjectures, for the fun of it.

Who was it who used to annoy Cusp by always quoting Tegmark?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Who was it who used to annoy Cusp by always quoting Tegmark?

I did that from time to time.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Also shitbox journalism, referring to the view of one fringe troll and starting the headline with “Why physicists think…”

I agree that the headline is stupid but I wouldn’t call Tegmark a “troll”.

He’s a metal impressionist Scotsman.

Bubblecar said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Who was it who used to annoy Cusp by always quoting Tegmark?

I did that from time to time.

high five

Bubblecar said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Who was it who used to annoy Cusp by always quoting Tegmark?

I did that from time to time.

Ah, I thought it was one BC or another :)