At midnight on NYE we were woken by a loud clanging sound. There were fireworks going off in the area and a few gunshots (it’s a “cultural” thing to fire a gun into the air at midnight). The noise came from the swamp cooler on the roof.

The following day mr kii climbed on the roof and checked what had happened, hoping to find a bottle rocket. Instead he found a hole in the canvas cover of the cooler etc. He called the police. The bullet appears to have been fired from a rifle, calibre is not known at present.

The bullet lodged in between the front grille and the pad. It’s in the water reservoir.

stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

if you have any details on the type of bullet, you can work out an area from which it originated (from the type of gun that would’ve been used and the power of it)
even from above, you can determine the direction it came from due to the angle at the end of the parabola.
Taking into consideration wind direction, you could probably narrow it down to a few hundred metres

yards in the US :) I’m sure with the right stats ad number crunching, it is entirely possible to work it all out. But for the police, I’m guessing, that since it didn’t harm anyone.. it’s a low priority event.

can I suggest that Kii put it in a thread, so we can follow and reexamine it’d be an interesting exercise

try putting a skewer in the hole in the cooler, that will give you a direction and you can measure the angle of impact.

Mathematically, the angle of impact should be identical to the angle of origin.
The bullet type and knowing the gun type should give you an approximate height for the parabolic curve.
(some people will try to tell you that the depth of the hole will tell you that, but most similar sized bullets will have the same terminal velocity no matter how high they reached)

Max altitudes of bullets

12 Gauge #7.5 shot at 1.25 grain – max altitude = 191m / 627ft

.25 ACP at 50 grain – max altitude = 697m / 2,287ft

.22 LR at 40 grain – max altitude = 1,179m / 3,868ft

.44 magnum at 240 grain – max altitude = 1,377m / 4,518ft

7.62 NATO at 150 grain – max altitude = 2,400m / 7,874ft

.30-06 at 180 grain – max altitude = 3,080m / 10,105ft

If the bullet was fired straight up and it fell, would it cause this damage? A clean neat hole right through canvas and thin metal sheeting.

Of the millions of rounds fired into the sky by trigger-happy celebrants, most land innocently in empty land. Fortunately, the impact of a falling bullet is much less than that of one fired directly at a target. Major General Julian Hatch, a U.S. Army firearms expert, did extensive testing on ballistics and falling projectiles in the 20’s. He calculated that .30 caliber rounds will reach terminal velocities of 300 feet per second (90 m/s) on descent, and determined that, while most bullets will leave a small dent in the ground when they land, that same bullet travelling between 200 to 330 feet per second can still penetrate human skin. The experience of many hospitalized and killed innocents validate his conclusions.

The popular scientists on the TV show, Mythbusters experimented with the premise that “Bullets fired into the air maintain their lethal capability when they eventually fall back down.”

They found that a bullet fired straight up (an almost impossible achievement for a human), will tumble on its return trip and falls at a slower rate due to terminal velocity. In addition, they found that a bullet in this circumstance is therefore less lethal on impact. However, they also discovered that a bullet fired at a non-vertical angle will be able to maintain its speed enough to be very destructive on impact. In determining if the myth was ‘Busted’, ‘Plausible’ or ‘Confirmed’, they proposed that this myth would receive all three ratings at the same time.

The mythbusters are scientists now?

so’s not just the goat herders waving AK47s around you need worry about, there’s a fucken surprise.

Divine Angel said:

The mythbusters are scientists now?

the mythbusters findings were incorrect (IMO) from their over simplifying of the experiment and dropping the bullets.

In the case of a rifle firing straight up, the bullet should still be spinning when it reaches max altitude and spinning on the way down, which would stabilise it in an upright orientation

kii said:

If the bullet was fired straight up and it fell, would it cause this damage? A clean neat hole right through canvas and thin metal sheeting.

No.

If it was a rifle have you measured the entry hole and had a look at the bullet? Or was that job left to the police? Looks to be less than 9 mm.

stumpy_seahorse said:

Divine Angel said:

The mythbusters are scientists now?

the mythbusters findings were incorrect (IMO) from their over simplifying of the experiment and dropping the bullets.

In the case of a rifle firing straight up, the bullet should still be spinning when it reaches max altitude and spinning on the way down, which would stabilise it in an upright orientation

Yep. The mythbusters were incorrect. Lethal incidents have occurred from the scenario. Mythbusters reckoned the myth was busted.

stumpy_seahorse said:

Of the millions of rounds fired into the sky by trigger-happy celebrants, most land innocently in empty land. Fortunately, the impact of a falling bullet is much less than that of one fired directly at a target. Major General Julian Hatch, a U.S. Army firearms expert, did extensive testing on ballistics and falling projectiles in the 20’s. He calculated that .30 caliber rounds will reach terminal velocities of 300 feet per second (90 m/s) on descent, and determined that, while most bullets will leave a small dent in the ground when they land, that same bullet travelling between 200 to 330 feet per second can still penetrate human skin. The experience of many hospitalized and killed innocents validate his conclusions.

The popular scientists on the TV show, Mythbusters experimented with the premise that “Bullets fired into the air maintain their lethal capability when they eventually fall back down.”

They found that a bullet fired straight up (an almost impossible achievement for a human), will tumble on its return trip and falls at a slower rate due to terminal velocity. In addition, they found that a bullet in this circumstance is therefore less lethal on impact. However, they also discovered that a bullet fired at a non-vertical angle will be able to maintain its speed enough to be very destructive on impact. In determining if the myth was ‘Busted’, ‘Plausible’ or ‘Confirmed’, they proposed that this myth would receive all three ratings at the same time.

There is a key angle of ascent. Any steeper and the bullet tumbles relatively harmlessly to ground. Any shallower and it comes screaming down to ground at deadly speed. Iirc, 80 degrees to vertical is steep enough to be relatively safe on descent. But I’m not sure if the critical angle is more or less than 70 degrees.

roughbarked said:

kii said:

If the bullet was fired straight up and it fell, would it cause this damage? A clean neat hole right through canvas and thin metal sheeting.

No.

If it was a rifle have you measured the entry hole and had a look at the bullet? Or was that job left to the police? Looks to be less than 9 mm.

mr kii and the officer agreed it was probably fired from a rifle due to ‘rifling’ on the sides.
No, I have not measured the hole. It’s on the roof and I am not going up there.
The police have the bullet and are investigating.

All I am trying to do is understand how it made such neat and fairly clean holes through two difference materials if it fell after being shot in the air. Or would that only come about if it pierced the canvas and the metal if it was at the end of the trajectory?

kii said:

roughbarked said:

kii said:

If the bullet was fired straight up and it fell, would it cause this damage? A clean neat hole right through canvas and thin metal sheeting.

No.

If it was a rifle have you measured the entry hole and had a look at the bullet? Or was that job left to the police? Looks to be less than 9 mm.

mr kii and the officer agreed it was probably fired from a rifle due to ‘rifling’ on the sides.
No, I have not measured the hole. It’s on the roof and I am not going up there.
The police have the bullet and are investigating.

All I am trying to do is understand how it made such neat and fairly clean holes through two difference materials if it fell after being shot in the air. Or would that only come about if it pierced the canvas and the metal if it was at the end of the trajectory?

IMO, it was still spin-stabilised on the way down, that would cause the neat round hole.
a bullet doesn’t really show rifling as that is done inside the bore of the rifle and the bullet should spin with it, showin firing marks, but not rifling

kii said:

If the bullet was fired straight up and it fell, would it cause this damage? A clean neat hole right through canvas and thin metal sheeting.

thats a shot fired horizontally

if its come down at a steep angle it would have grazed off the metal or made a tear downwards

most likely thats a semi aimed shot at your cooler

hang on

is this a picture looking at the wall where the cooler is mounted or a picture looking down on the rook of the cooler

cue CSI music

wookiemeister said:

cue CSI music

that guy takes off his sunglasses

CrazyNeutrino said:

wookiemeister said:

cue CSI music

that guy takes off his sunglasses

looks hard into the camera

you americans should probably make guns and bullets harder to come by.

Dropbear said:

you americans should probably make guns and bullets harder to come by.

Emotional Barack Obama wipes away tears during new push to tighten gun rules

United States President Barack Obama has unveiled a set of new executive actions on gun control, and urged Americans to vote for candidates who do more to prevent gun violence, wiping away tears as he remembered children who died in a mass shooting.

Key points:

Obama says right to bear arms can co-exist with measures to address gun violence Proposals include requiring more gun sellers to get licenses and more background checks Actions “a dangerous level of executive overreach”, Republican House speaker says Republican presidential hopefuls vow to overturn order if elected

But critics have branded the actions both meaningless and in excess of his powers, before they have even been implemented.

more…

Its a recognition of the issue but its still just noise.

Nothing being donet yet.

Nothing being done yet.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Dropbear said:

you americans should probably make guns and bullets harder to come by.

Emotional Barack Obama wipes away tears during new push to tighten gun rules

United States President Barack Obama has unveiled a set of new executive actions on gun control, and urged Americans to vote for candidates who do more to prevent gun violence, wiping away tears as he remembered children who died in a mass shooting.

Key points:

Obama says right to bear arms can co-exist with measures to address gun violence Proposals include requiring more gun sellers to get licenses and more background checks Actions “a dangerous level of executive overreach”, Republican House speaker says Republican presidential hopefuls vow to overturn order if elected

But critics have branded the actions both meaningless and in excess of his powers, before they have even been implemented.

more…

Its a recognition of the issue but its still just noise.

Nothing being donet yet.

Cannot imagine even the gun fetishists wives not being affected by Obama’s comment about “we don’t allow a child to open a bottle of asprin…”

CrazyNeutrino said:

Nothing being done yet.

Stop procrastinating then. ;)

I sink zey need a few maw hours in ze cooler

dv said:

I sink zey need a few maw hours in ze cooler

chips off the cover?