If I focus on different things, say shift my eye focus from something near to something further back, is the intention involved in doing that different to unconconscious creatures. Is the impression different. Or, does something of intention make it different to say when my dog does it.

I mean even if I had no education or knowledge of vision (the eye etc), for starters.

Seems to me that the experience of whatever viewed (representation of that viewed, total field, colour, detail etc) comes with a substantial impression (involving states of mind). It’s a somewhat imposing feeling, it might be said.

There’s an aesthetic sort of enjoyment about it, an ease, a processing ease, and most of the aesthetic enjoyment really is of the processing, the processing ease. Most’s done quite automatically too, without apparent conscious effort.

The reason it interests me is I believe (a hunch) something from/of vision processing, way back, some tricks maybe migrated elsewhere into the structure of minds and resulted in consciousness.

All that is just proof of the existence of “GOD”

bob(from black rock) said:

All that is just proof of the existence of “GOD”

maybe leave God out of it for a while, if all else fails I maybe’ll consult him.

Ive you have no sense of vision

then I guess you would then have a reliance on sense of touch

your perception of space would be greater / different

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ive you have no sense of vision

then I guess you would then have a reliance on sense of touch

your perception of space would be greater / different

Without vision all other senses would be enhanced.

>Without vision all other senses would be enhanced.

that might be sort of true in ways of the lifetime of an organism, but otherwise might not be true. And of an organism-type and any single example’s lifetime, that is really a small part given where it came from and what might evolve.

transition said:

If I focus on different things, say shift my eye focus from something near to something further back, is the intention involved in doing that different to unconconscious creatures. Is the impression different. Or, does something of intention make it different to say when my dog does it.

What does your dog have to do with unconscious creatures?

>What does your dog have to do with unconscious creatures?

fair point.

alright, you’re sitting there, sometime after I wrote this, you’re reading the words, reading it in your own voice, you’re maybe adding some tone etc (interesting territory), you’re sitting in a room, familiar stuff around you likely, familiar noises, familar with the working of the computer you’re at. Stay with me for a moment.

The room and all has a feel about it, perhaps a homeliness. Now bring your mind to the familiarity of itself, it’s a home, an internal environment (part of, body and all related). It has a feel about it, maybe think of it an internal mental state. That’ll do if you’re happy with it. Whatever the mental activity involved it generates a feel, or has a feel about it.

If you wear glasses take them off, or try going cross eyed for a moment (gives me vertigo nearly). Anyway try whatever to experience the transition from unfocused to refocus. Or perhaps try going from a limited field of view through a small hole in your hands, then transitioning to the full field.

There’s something about attention and wakefulness that wants for the optimized impression of a wide field, sharp focus, good illumination and contrast (yet there are other mental states which this is not desired for, like winding down maybe for a nap).

Now, WTF does this have to do with more conscious control and consciousness (I haven’t consulted Larry me dog, later I will).

A starting point might be that I can shut my eyes with the intention of imagining something different to what is around me. I can fold the vision sensory input back with (with the assistance of) a long blink. Too the things in my visual field I can rearrange them and overlay them over the input//image. I can generate a lot of things in imagination (call it that for the moment, pick your on word) and maybe like different layers in CAD do whatever.

Shutting your eyes or turning the lights off and walking around gives a feel for the vision input, that is absent (related of other inputs for balance too).

Anyway, there seems to be many parts to vision processing, then there seems a more global feel about the entire experience, a feel, an impression. Like an optimizer of experience from.

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ive you have no sense of vision

then I guess you would then have a reliance on sense of touch

your perception of space would be greater / different

Without vision all other senses would be enhanced.

without out vision the other senses will adequate to interpret the world, to gather food and sustain life reasonably as is shown in creatures evolved to become eventually not need vision like cave dwelling creatures where they maybe no light. Which is different to an animal that should be sighted and for various reasons is not. The region of the human brain will develop differently and other regions of the brain may over develop as you suggest through extensive usage of connections in that region of the brain as the person grows and develops if blind at birth . I imagine the changes are less when the brain has reached maturation and then the sense of vision is lost.

monkey skipper said:

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ive you have no sense of vision

then I guess you would then have a reliance on sense of touch

your perception of space would be greater / different

Without vision all other senses would be enhanced.

Without out vision the other senses will be adequate to interpret the world, to gather food and to sustain life reasonably, as is shown to be true in creatures that have evolved to become blind or have no eyes at all.

There are some cave dwelling creatures that come to mind immediately.

Which is different to an animal that should be sighted and for various reasons is not. The region of the human brain will develop differently. Other regions of the brain may over develop as you suggest and due to the extensive usage of connections in that region of the brain; as the person grows and develops if blind at birth . I imagine the changes are less when the brain has reached maturation and then the sense of vision is lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9KeyKVuLHU
What Are Animals Thinking and Feeling? | Carl Safina | TED Talks

The amount of physics of the various forces in visual representations courtesy eyes and brain processing is quite staggering really, well, if I think about it the experience feels that way. Much of the pleasure is in the amount done and how effortless it is.

No less impressive are representations involving things moving/changing, which includes self relative to else

Seems to be a lot of geometry involved. Light, kinetic energy, invisible gravity etc. Air being low density enough and transparent might’ve been a curiosity to our ancestors, well, if humans didn’t evolve within it. There’s even a geometry lesson in the winds.

Don’t you wonder sometimes
‘Bout sound and vision

Blue, blue, electric blue
That’s the colour of my room
Where I will live
Blue, blue

Pale blinds drawn all day
Nothing to do, nothing to say
Blue, blue

I will sit right down,
Waiting for the gift of sound and vision
And I will sing, waiting for the gift of sound and vision
Drifting into my solitude,
over my head

Don’t you wonder sometimes
‘Bout sound and vision