Why doesn’t the government introduce new laws on building new homes in fire prone areas to include a fire sprinkler system drawing its water from a tank

when you consider how much a sprinkler system is and the cost of a solar powered pump and tank

its not much compared to a burnt out home

CrazyNeutrino said:

Why doesn’t the government introduce new laws on building new homes in fire prone areas to include a fire sprinkler system drawing its water from a tank

when you consider how much a sprinkler system is and the cost of a solar powered pump and tank

its not much compared to a burnt out home

Because similar laws are already in place (although I believe they are controlled at local level, rather than state or federal, which would make more sense).

CrazyNeutrino said:

Why doesn’t the government introduce new laws on building new homes in fire prone areas to include a fire sprinkler system drawing its water from a tank

when you consider how much a sprinkler system is and the cost of a solar powered pump and tank

its not much compared to a burnt out home

I’m thinking there probably aren’t too many home installed sprinkler systems that would stop a bushfire

I think the answer is to perhaps change the zoning to prohibit the constriction of residential dwellings in areas that are known to be in significantly high risk areas.

But then some people just like living in the styx and the risk associated with bushfire probably is much different to the risk associated with damage from other weather type events like cyclone (for example) – in terms of damage to property that is.

I see a business in building houses out of asbestos. Can’t go wrong!

AwesomeO said:

I see a business in building houses out of asbestos. Can’t go wrong!

seriously though that’s exactly what it was such a popular building material… fire resistant, water proof, strong yet light, inexpensive to produce…

diddly-squat said:

AwesomeO said:

I see a business in building houses out of asbestos. Can’t go wrong!

seriously though that’s exactly what it was such a popular building material… fire resistant, water proof, strong yet light, inexpensive to produce…

just slowly deadly to mine, produce and clean up afterwards …

Arts said:

diddly-squat said:

AwesomeO said:

I see a business in building houses out of asbestos. Can’t go wrong!

seriously though that’s exactly what it was such a popular building material… fire resistant, water proof, strong yet light, inexpensive to produce…

just slowly deadly to mine, produce and clean up afterwards …

glass half empty, aren’t you…

A couple of ideas, though probably already been done. Houses without gutters or spaces that allow ember attack and shutters that can be closed over the windows. Windows to be made of ovenproof glass.

Clear vegetation around house, moreover produce lists of vegetation that can act as heat and fire shields.

That’s about the best that can be done fairly cheaply.

diddly-squat said:

Arts said:

diddly-squat said:

seriously though that’s exactly what it was such a popular building material… fire resistant, water proof, strong yet light, inexpensive to produce…

just slowly deadly to mine, produce and clean up afterwards …

glass half empty, aren’t you…

no, you’re right, what’s a few long, drawn out, debilitating, fatal diseases among friends

CrazyNeutrino said:

Why doesn’t the government introduce new laws on building new homes in fire prone areas to include a fire sprinkler system drawing its water from a tank

when you consider how much a sprinkler system is and the cost of a solar powered pump and tank

its not much compared to a burnt out home

Because it costs money. Real money. People’s own money.

Voters don’t like being told to spend their own money on stuff.

Arts said:

diddly-squat said:

Arts said:

just slowly deadly to mine, produce and clean up afterwards …

glass half empty, aren’t you…

no, you’re right, what’s a few long, drawn out, debilitating, fatal diseases among friends

brings people together…

aerial water bombing drones are the only thing that can shift water from one place to another quickly

they can hit fires in the guts and save property eg 1 tonne every second drenching a house

Oh goody. Making jokes about people dying from asbestos related illnesses.

I designed a few bushfire prevention systems for places in Tassie.

Priced one up for this place, it’s about $10K just to protect the house

that’s why drones are cheaper than maintaining lots of things

just dump water on it from above

no pumps

the person is likely to stay and defend the property if they know the drones will save the property

everyone clears out quick smart safe in the knowledge that tones of water will come in to save the day

the drones are shifted around the country in RAAF aircraft as needed

stumpy_seahorse said:

I designed a few bushfire prevention systems for places in Tassie.

Priced one up for this place, it’s about $10K just to protect the house

10K isn’t much to protect a $500,000k + investment

diddly-squat said:

AwesomeO said:

I see a business in building houses out of asbestos. Can’t go wrong!

seriously though that’s exactly what it was such a popular building material… fire resistant, water proof, strong yet light, inexpensive to produce…

why didnt they give asbestos a coating of some sealant?

The biggest changes will probably be imposed by insurance companies, making premiums so expensive in certain areas that they cannot be lived in. Or requiring homes to be of a certain standard before they will insure.

Arts said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

I designed a few bushfire prevention systems for places in Tassie.

Priced one up for this place, it’s about $10K just to protect the house

10K isn’t much to protect a $500,000k + investment

not at all.

The best one I sold was for a medium sized house, $15K for a ‘turn the j=key and walk away’ system, fully installed

with current tech (not available then) add $500 and you have a system you can start and monitor using your smartphone.

they could spray some sort of acrylic sealant onto existing asbestos material

for removal or for much later removal

The Rev Dodgson said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Why doesn’t the government introduce new laws on building new homes in fire prone areas to include a fire sprinkler system drawing its water from a tank

when you consider how much a sprinkler system is and the cost of a solar powered pump and tank

its not much compared to a burnt out home

Because similar laws are already in place (although I believe they are controlled at local level, rather than state or federal, which would make more sense).

why don’t state and federal introduce compulsory water spray systems for existing homes with log term loans

I support your idea.

How would an optimum sprinkler be configured for this purpose? Where would it spray? When? Would it be automatically triggered by heat?

How often would it need to be inspected, tested and certified?

etc..

AwesomeO said:

The biggest changes will probably be imposed by insurance companies, making premiums so expensive in certain areas that they cannot be lived in. Or requiring homes to be of a certain standard before they will insure.

there are internal and external fire sprinkler systems that work

having a standard for external fire sprinkler systems would be a start

maybe there already standards external fire sprinkler systems

dv said:

I support your idea.

How would an optimum sprinkler be configured for this purpose? Where would it spray? When? Would it be automatically triggered by heat?

it would spray the roof and external walls external windows / doors

heat sensors would trigger it or 4g remote

kii said:

Oh goody. Making jokes about people dying from asbestos related illnesses.

They’ll get over it.

Although I think that this is a good idea, I don’t think there is a need for the government to make it mandatory. People have their own decisions to make on insurance and protection etc. People can risk their own property.

What the government does need to make mandatory is evacuation in the face of fire.

Houses will keep burning down until we start sacrificing virgins every spring.

headsie said:

Houses will keep burning down until we start sacrificing virgins every spring.

I think a fireproof home would be a better idea. Metal shutters to seal the ceiling space & cover windows & doors.

I think Mandatory would save lives, and create some jobs for the industry

also it would help fire fighters to have access to water tanks

I think there should also be a rating system for homes build in high fire risk areas

because every home is different and situated in different areas

density of trees, area prone to high wind,

well planed escape routes for different directions of fire

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think Mandatory would save lives, and create some jobs for the industry

also it would help fire fighters to have access to water tanks

I think there should also be a rating system for homes build in high fire risk areas

because every home is different and situated in different areas

density of trees, area prone to high wind,

well planed escape routes for different directions of fire

Properly conducted fuel reduction burns.

Tamb said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think Mandatory would save lives, and create some jobs for the industry

also it would help fire fighters to have access to water tanks

I think there should also be a rating system for homes build in high fire risk areas

because every home is different and situated in different areas

density of trees, area prone to high wind,

well planed escape routes for different directions of fire

Properly conducted fuel reduction burns.

ones which don’t get out of control

which quite a few have

CrazyNeutrino said:

Tamb said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think Mandatory would save lives, and create some jobs for the industry

also it would help fire fighters to have access to water tanks

I think there should also be a rating system for homes build in high fire risk areas

because every home is different and situated in different areas

density of trees, area prone to high wind,

well planed escape routes for different directions of fire

Properly conducted fuel reduction burns.

ones which don’t get out of control

which quite a few have

True. Not so much in Qld where the government encourages burning. Every year we have “Operation Cool Burn” or similar.

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think Mandatory would save lives, and create some jobs for the industry

also it would help fire fighters to have access to water tanks

I think there should also be a rating system for homes build in high fire risk areas

because every home is different and situated in different areas

density of trees, area prone to high wind,

well planed escape routes for different directions of fire

You obviously have far greater faith in the CFA than me.

PermeateFree said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think Mandatory would save lives, and create some jobs for the industry

also it would help fire fighters to have access to water tanks

I think there should also be a rating system for homes build in high fire risk areas

because every home is different and situated in different areas

density of trees, area prone to high wind,

well planed escape routes for different directions of fire

You obviously have far greater faith in the CFA than me.

I think they are still on a steep learning curve

and there is nothing wrong with that

more information is good, they certainly know heaps gathered from past experience and have shared their experience with other countries

those weather sensing devices could be brought in to a mandatory system

and remote 4g apps would to access the fire sprinkling system to turn them on at the owners discretion, or at fire ambient temperatures

CrazyNeutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think Mandatory would save lives, and create some jobs for the industry

also it would help fire fighters to have access to water tanks

I think there should also be a rating system for homes build in high fire risk areas

because every home is different and situated in different areas

density of trees, area prone to high wind,

well planed escape routes for different directions of fire

You obviously have far greater faith in the CFA than me.

I think they are still on a steep learning curve

and there is nothing wrong with that

more information is good, they certainly know heaps gathered from past experience and have shared their experience with other countries

those weather sensing devices could be brought in to a mandatory system

and remote 4g apps would to access the fire sprinkling system to turn them on at the owners discretion, or at fire ambient temperatures

If you want to save your property from bushfires, then you do it yourself and certainly don’t rely on the CFA. They are just farmhands and farmers with very little experience, often commanded by someone who is equally ignorant, yet they come onto your property and do as they wish, which is usually totally ineffectual and damages just about everything they come in contact. If you want them, then you can have them, but don’t give them mandatory powers over whether people can stay or go.

CrazyNeutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think Mandatory would save lives, and create some jobs for the industry

also it would help fire fighters to have access to water tanks

I think there should also be a rating system for homes build in high fire risk areas

because every home is different and situated in different areas

density of trees, area prone to high wind,

well planed escape routes for different directions of fire

You obviously have far greater faith in the CFA than me.

I think they are still on a steep learning curve

and there is nothing wrong with that

more information is good, they certainly know heaps gathered from past experience and have shared their experience with other countries

those weather sensing devices could be brought in to a mandatory system

and remote 4g apps would to access the fire sprinkling system to turn them on at the owners discretion, or at fire ambient temperatures

what also needed is to integrate more satellites(visual, infra-red and any other fire, heat sensors) with gps/phone systems

where everyone can log in on a smart phone or tablet to see where the fire/fires are

plus local detailed information (which can be very hard to get)

PermeateFree said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

You obviously have far greater faith in the CFA than me.

I think they are still on a steep learning curve

and there is nothing wrong with that

more information is good, they certainly know heaps gathered from past experience and have shared their experience with other countries

those weather sensing devices could be brought in to a mandatory system

and remote 4g apps would to access the fire sprinkling system to turn them on at the owners discretion, or at fire ambient temperatures

If you want to save your property from bushfires, then you do it yourself and certainly don’t rely on the CFA. They are just farmhands and farmers with very little experience, often commanded by someone who is equally ignorant, yet they come onto your property and do as they wish, which is usually totally ineffectual and damages just about everything they come in contact. If you want them, then you can have them, but don’t give them mandatory powers over whether people can stay or go.

I also think the CFA needs some more paid permanent professional fire-fighters

CrazyNeutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think they are still on a steep learning curve

and there is nothing wrong with that

more information is good, they certainly know heaps gathered from past experience and have shared their experience with other countries

those weather sensing devices could be brought in to a mandatory system

and remote 4g apps would to access the fire sprinkling system to turn them on at the owners discretion, or at fire ambient temperatures

If you want to save your property from bushfires, then you do it yourself and certainly don’t rely on the CFA. They are just farmhands and farmers with very little experience, often commanded by someone who is equally ignorant, yet they come onto your property and do as they wish, which is usually totally ineffectual and damages just about everything they come in contact. If you want them, then you can have them, but don’t give them mandatory powers over whether people can stay or go.

I also think the CFA needs some more paid permanent professional fire-fighters

Might have a little more faith in the service if they did. Currently it is the blind leading the blind.

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think Mandatory would save lives

But would it? People should be right the fuck away.

dv said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think Mandatory would save lives

But would it? People should be right the fuck away.

I look it this way

in the ocean road fire , 60 homes gone

if they all had a decent fire sprinkler system with water tanks with 4g phone tablet and remote access

there could be still 60 homes standing

same for a lot of other bush fires

and it would also reduce the need for fire fighters going to figh house fires

they could then focus their attention on other fire fighting areas

CrazyNeutrino said:

and it would also reduce the need for fire fighters going to figh house fires

they could then focus their attention on other fire fighting areas

Yeah that’s a good point.

external sprinklers are next to useless

The high winds just blow the water away

water tanks generally don’t have enough storage capacity.

powering the pumps is another issue -solar powered pumps are just a fantasy.

Wookies drones are the ultimate in bullshit ideas…..

all so simple to fix really…………

Has anyone here actually read the current regs for bushfire prone areas?

Most homes being destroyed generally aren’t to this standard.

CrazyNeutrino said:

dv said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think Mandatory would save lives

But would it? People should be right the fuck away.

I look it this way

in the ocean road fire , 60 homes gone

if they all had a decent fire sprinkler system with water tanks with 4g phone tablet and remote access

there could be still 60 homes standing

same for a lot of other bush fires

and it would also reduce the need for fire fighters going to figh house fires

they could then focus their attention on other fire fighting areas

Ideally you need something that can pump a lot of water quickly and as power is usually the first service to go, forget electric ones unless you also have a generator. I have a fire fighting pump which does a good job, plus you can attach a 1” fire hose that can direct water where the sprinklers cannot.

With fire fighting, when you have a large fire being pushed by strong winds, there is little you can do until it has passed, when you can then mop up the smaller fires. Also fires are generally fought along the flanks where the heat and intensity is far less and more easily controlled. Back burns to stop big advancing fires are only feasible when winds have dropped, therefore done mainly at night.

dv said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

and it would also reduce the need for fire fighters going to figh house fires

they could then focus their attention on other fire fighting areas

also be a relief to insurance companies in the long term

Yeah that’s a good point.

grognon said:

external sprinklers are next to useless

The high winds just blow the water away

water tanks generally don’t have enough storage capacity.

powering the pumps is another issue -solar powered pumps are just a fantasy.

Wookies drones are the ultimate in bullshit ideas…..

all so simple to fix really…………

Has anyone here actually read the current regs for bushfire prone areas?

Most homes being destroyed generally aren’t to this standard.

the systems I have worked with have a diesel twin impeller keystart, live ringmain with large nozzle impact sprinklers surrounding the structure, butterfly sprinklers on the roof, strengthened gutters with ball valves on the down pipes, 2 × 30m fire hose reels (one either side) and a minimum of 25000L tank (this gives about 4 hours of protection)

grognon said:

external sprinklers are next to useless

The high winds just blow the water away

water tanks generally don’t have enough storage capacity.

powering the pumps is another issue -solar powered pumps are just a fantasy.

Wookies drones are the ultimate in bullshit ideas…..

all so simple to fix really…………

Has anyone here actually read the current regs for bushfire prone areas?

Most homes being destroyed generally aren’t to this standard.

so are these things somehow insolvable?

high winds in a fire have a speed, also high winds in a fire can generate a fire tornado or fire whirly wind

the pump would be battery powered as well, what’s wrong with that?

dronse would be useful for information collecting

you can have fire bunkers

they are usually made of concrete and placed underground

sure some fires would test physics

the Canberra fire that burnt the Brindabellas

you would have difficulty keeping some of those houses standing at the bottom of the mountain

that fire generated its own weather system, thats when drones would come in handy

the fire went in about 4 houses, around two blocks

that fire would test external fire sprinkler systems

headsie said:

Houses will keep burning down until we start sacrificing virgins every spring.

we’ll need to import them

CrazyNeutrino said:

grognon said:

external sprinklers are next to useless

The high winds just blow the water away

water tanks generally don’t have enough storage capacity.

powering the pumps is another issue -solar powered pumps are just a fantasy.

Wookies drones are the ultimate in bullshit ideas…..

all so simple to fix really…………

Has anyone here actually read the current regs for bushfire prone areas?

Most homes being destroyed generally aren’t to this standard.

so are these things somehow insolvable?

high winds in a fire have a speed, also high winds in a fire can generate a fire tornado or fire whirly wind

the pump would be battery powered as well, what’s wrong with that?

dronse would be useful for information collecting

Not insurmountable, just there are more effective methods. I don’t think you appreciate the amount of water you need to pump at one time. The rate of a garden sprinkler is next to useless; as an example, I have kicker type sprinklers spaced 5 metres apart and then I only cover half the building and the water comes out at an enormous rate to completely cover that side in seconds. If the fire is coming from the other side I change the flow onto another line, which duplicates the high water flow. The 1” fire hose is most important to put out the smaller fires after the main front has passed. You really need someone on the ground to judge what must be done.

Can’t do it all with firebreaks. In dry windy conditions, burning detritus can travel hundreds of metres.

Russia’s innovative “Special Firefighting Vehicle” is being thrust into operation with the Russian Army. It will supposedly go where no fire truck or human can and will be assigned missions including everything from search and rescue, to putting out fires at weapons depots, to creating fire-lines for forest fire infernos.

wookiemeister said:

ok for low heat and heavy smoke concentrations, but would probably melt in a hot bushfire.

wookiemeister said:

Wont someone think of the lawn?

wookiemeister said:

Russia’s innovative “Special Firefighting Vehicle” is being thrust into operation with the Russian Army.

How many Georgians can it kill?

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

Russia’s innovative “Special Firefighting Vehicle” is being thrust into operation with the Russian Army.

How many Georgians can it kill?

As far as armor goes, it can take a hit from an high-explosive 155mm artillery shell that lands less than a dozen feet away.

I think more effort needs to go into water dumping

im thinking computer controlled water dumping

a helicopter or drone monitoring the fire, wind direction, temp, rate of fire speed

an algorithm based on past information (tests) works out the best way to dump the water

I think more effort needs to go into plasma research and using other states of matter to fight fires

a lab to do the research

must be some way to fight fires using other states of matter

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think more effort needs to go into water dumping

im thinking computer controlled water dumping

a helicopter or drone monitoring the fire, wind direction, temp, rate of fire speed

an algorithm based on past information (tests) works out the best way to dump the water

so a drone or helicopter monitors the fire for stats

sends them to the water dumping plane or chopper

which then works out the best speed and direction to dump the water
\

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think more effort needs to go into water dumping

im thinking computer controlled water dumping

a helicopter or drone monitoring the fire, wind direction, temp, rate of fire speed

an algorithm based on past information (tests) works out the best way to dump the water

so a drone or helicopter monitors the fire for stats

sends them to the water dumping plane or chopper

which then works out the best speed and direction to dump the water
\

why would this be better than the man on the ground who does that at present?

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think more effort needs to go into water dumping

im thinking computer controlled water dumping

a helicopter or drone monitoring the fire, wind direction, temp, rate of fire speed

an algorithm based on past information (tests) works out the best way to dump the water

so a drone or helicopter monitors the fire for stats

sends them to the water dumping plane or chopper

which then works out the best speed and direction to dump the water
\

why would this be better than the man on the ground who does that at present?

just like replacing computer controlled vehicles for mining

the computer works out the most efficient way

but its only as good as the information the computer is using which can always be updated

They also make use of satellite data.

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

so a drone or helicopter monitors the fire for stats

sends them to the water dumping plane or chopper

which then works out the best speed and direction to dump the water
\

why would this be better than the man on the ground who does that at present?

just like replacing computer controlled vehicles for mining

the computer works out the most efficient way

but its only as good as the information the computer is using which can always be updated

computer controlled vehicles in mining work because they are all computer controlled and follow the same rules.
ie. stop where they should, go where they should, turn where they should.

The downfall of computer controlled cars is that they expect all other cars to follow the road rules.
When a car runs a stop sign, or turns without giving way, the computer has no way of expecting that and ploughs straight into it.
(there was a report on this last week out of japan)

add flying, changing weather, predicting the weather change and basically a drone is useless and will cause more problems than it solves

Bubblecar said:

They also make use of satellite data.

true

but how many people can log in to their smart phones or tablet for real time satellite information right over their roof tops or right over an approaching fire front ?

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

why would this be better than the man on the ground who does that at present?

just like replacing computer controlled vehicles for mining

the computer works out the most efficient way

but its only as good as the information the computer is using which can always be updated

computer controlled vehicles in mining work because they are all computer controlled and follow the same rules.
ie. stop where they should, go where they should, turn where they should.

The downfall of computer controlled cars is that they expect all other cars to follow the road rules.
When a car runs a stop sign, or turns without giving way, the computer has no way of expecting that and ploughs straight into it.
(there was a report on this last week out of japan)

add flying, changing weather, predicting the weather change and basically a drone is useless and will cause more problems than it solves

a drone is really good at information collecting

something which a fire commander would want

maybe useless next to a fire-fighter on the ground, maybe not

if a drone can signal to firefighter that they are being surrounded by fire

and the drone shows the closest exist points

that would be useful information

it depends on the fire

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

just like replacing computer controlled vehicles for mining

the computer works out the most efficient way

but its only as good as the information the computer is using which can always be updated

computer controlled vehicles in mining work because they are all computer controlled and follow the same rules.
ie. stop where they should, go where they should, turn where they should.

The downfall of computer controlled cars is that they expect all other cars to follow the road rules.
When a car runs a stop sign, or turns without giving way, the computer has no way of expecting that and ploughs straight into it.
(there was a report on this last week out of japan)

add flying, changing weather, predicting the weather change and basically a drone is useless and will cause more problems than it solves

a drone is really good at information collecting

something which a fire commander would want

maybe useless next to a fire-fighter on the ground, maybe not

if a drone can signal to firefighter that they are being surrounded by fire

and the drone shows the closest exist points

that would be useful information

it depends on the fire

firefighter that they are being surrounded by fire

and when has this happened?

CrazyNeutrino said:

Bubblecar said:

They also make use of satellite data.

true

but how many people can log in to their smart phones or tablet for real time satellite information right over their roof tops or right over an approaching fire front ?

Maybe we can upgrade the people to smart people.

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think more effort needs to go into water dumping

im thinking computer controlled water dumping

a helicopter or drone monitoring the fire, wind direction, temp, rate of fire speed

an algorithm based on past information (tests) works out the best way to dump the water

so a drone or helicopter monitors the fire for stats

sends them to the water dumping plane or chopper

which then works out the best speed and direction to dump the water
\

why would this be better than the man on the ground who does that at present?

too many men

in too much danger

using too many resources

to cover too little area

in places that they can’t get to or get there fast enough

all costing too much money for little result

Bubblecar said:

They also make use of satellite data.

not quick enough

costs lots of money

To build on rural properties you need to complete a BAC for I think it is, how far you are from trees etc etc.
You need to get enough points on your BAC before you can build.

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

computer controlled vehicles in mining work because they are all computer controlled and follow the same rules.
ie. stop where they should, go where they should, turn where they should.

The downfall of computer controlled cars is that they expect all other cars to follow the road rules.
When a car runs a stop sign, or turns without giving way, the computer has no way of expecting that and ploughs straight into it.
(there was a report on this last week out of japan)

add flying, changing weather, predicting the weather change and basically a drone is useless and will cause more problems than it solves

a drone is really good at information collecting

something which a fire commander would want

maybe useless next to a fire-fighter on the ground, maybe not

if a drone can signal to firefighter that they are being surrounded by fire

and the drone shows the closest exist points

that would be useful information

it depends on the fire

firefighter that they are being surrounded by fire

and when has this happened?

its happened

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think more effort needs to go into water dumping

im thinking computer controlled water dumping

a helicopter or drone monitoring the fire, wind direction, temp, rate of fire speed

an algorithm based on past information (tests) works out the best way to dump the water

so a drone or helicopter monitors the fire for stats

sends them to the water dumping plane or chopper

which then works out the best speed and direction to dump the water
\

why would this be better than the man on the ground who does that at present?

SS – just let the bullshit fantasies flow – it may put bushfires out

wookiemeister said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

a drone is really good at information collecting

something which a fire commander would want

maybe useless next to a fire-fighter on the ground, maybe not

if a drone can signal to firefighter that they are being surrounded by fire

and the drone shows the closest exist points

that would be useful information

it depends on the fire

firefighter that they are being surrounded by fire

and when has this happened?

its happened

there’s been plenty of burn overs, but it’s been a very long time in Australia since there has been a death attributed to burn around

stumpy_seahorse said:

wookiemeister said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

firefighter that they are being surrounded by fire

and when has this happened?

its happened

there’s been plenty of burn overs, but it’s been a very long time in Australia since there has been a death attributed to burn around

Pinery bushfire: Emergency radio system failed at height of blaze, trapping firefighters
December 1, 2015 4:03pm

i know its just over a month ago but it should be recent enough for this forum to count

wookiemeister said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

wookiemeister said:

its happened

there’s been plenty of burn overs, but it’s been a very long time in Australia since there has been a death attributed to burn around

Pinery bushfire: Emergency radio system failed at height of blaze, trapping firefighters
December 1, 2015 4:03pm

i know its just over a month ago but it should be recent enough for this forum to count

wow, those firefighters who drove the truck out are zombies now?..

whooda thunkit

I wouldn’t let Watson in a prone area, he’s an idiot.

grognon said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

so a drone or helicopter monitors the fire for stats

sends them to the water dumping plane or chopper

which then works out the best speed and direction to dump the water
\

why would this be better than the man on the ground who does that at present?

SS – just let the bullshit fantasies flow – it may put bushfires out

i know.. DFTT…

I know CN is stoned out of his nut and that’s his excuse, but don’t know what the deal with wookie is… just simple I guess…

stumpy_seahorse said:

grognon said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

why would this be better than the man on the ground who does that at present?

SS – just let the bullshit fantasies flow – it may put bushfires out

i know.. DFTT…

I know CN is stoned out of his nut and that’s his excuse, but don’t know what the deal with wookie is… just simple I guess…

so sick of this ad hominem and straw man BS seriously

CN shall retire with our bongs

CN is just politely offering suggestions, I can’t see any call for hostility.

Bubblecar said:

CN is just politely offering suggestions, I can’t see any call for hostility.

just winding them up

wookiemeister said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

grognon said:

SS – just let the bullshit fantasies flow – it may put bushfires out

i know.. DFTT…

I know CN is stoned out of his nut and that’s his excuse, but don’t know what the deal with wookie is… just simple I guess…

so sick of this ad hominem and straw man BS seriously

CN shall retire with our bongs

truth hurts eh…

Bubblecar said:

CN is just politely offering suggestions

…as is wookie.

Surely by now this forum knows how to debate stuff without needless fisticuffs :)

stumpy_seahorse said:

wookiemeister said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

i know.. DFTT…

I know CN is stoned out of his nut and that’s his excuse, but don’t know what the deal with wookie is… just simple I guess…

so sick of this ad hominem and straw man BS seriously

CN shall retire with our bongs

truth hurts eh…

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

punish those who offer suggestions

yes I’M “stoned”

Punish him

ATM I’m cooking tea “Fried rice” and listening to DUB

diddly-squat said:

I think the answer is to perhaps change the zoning to prohibit the constriction of residential dwellings in areas that are known to be in significantly high risk areas.

Try telling that to the 80,000 people who live in the Blue Mountains.

Divine Angel said:

diddly-squat said:

I think the answer is to perhaps change the zoning to prohibit the constriction of residential dwellings in areas that are known to be in significantly high risk areas.

Try telling that to the 80,000 people who live in the Blue Mountains.

…or the Dandenongs. Have no idea how many live up there, and adjacent areas, but it is a shitload.

Divine Angel said:

diddly-squat said:

I think the answer is to perhaps change the zoning to prohibit the constriction of residential dwellings in areas that are known to be in significantly high risk areas.

Try telling that to the 80,000 people who live in the Blue Mountains.

Yep, some of those areas up there scare the bejesus out of me :/ Couldn’t wait to get out of the lovely Mountains of Blue.

sibeen said:

Divine Angel said:

diddly-squat said:

I think the answer is to perhaps change the zoning to prohibit the constriction of residential dwellings in areas that are known to be in significantly high risk areas.

Try telling that to the 80,000 people who live in the Blue Mountains.

…or the Dandenongs. Have no idea how many live up there, and adjacent areas, but it is a shitload.

… or the Adelaide or Perth hills.

Zoning can be applied to new dwellings and restrict areas not currently developed.

party_pants said:

sibeen said:

Divine Angel said:

Try telling that to the 80,000 people who live in the Blue Mountains.

…or the Dandenongs. Have no idea how many live up there, and adjacent areas, but it is a shitload.

… or the Adelaide or Perth hills.

giggle

Now, now, Admiral, we were talking about real cities.

Dale Griffin, the drummer from Mott the Hoople, has decided to join Bowie in his new band. :(

when people go into areas full of trees and build burnable homes

and then expect other people to risk their lives saving other peoples homes

then mandatory fire sprinklers starts to look good

Forget the strawman, what you want is “straw house”…

The external temperature reached a scorching 1000degC while inside the house was a cool 35degC. There was minimal damage to the straw house’s cladding and while the steel frame heated up to 100–110degC it remained structurally sound and intact.

https://blog.csiro.au/straw-house-1-fire-0/

The mostly steel house in a fire was shown on Catalyst…

Usually a bushfire front takes 30 or 40 seconds to pass. For two minutes, this house has to withstand temperatures up to 1200 degrees. A fire resistant house is only as good as its weakest point. First, the window fails, and then the door burns through. Now things get ugly. As the house fills with hot smoke, the temperature inside leaps to more than 200 degrees.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2922902.htm

sibeen said:

Dale Griffin, the drummer from Mott the Hoople, has decided to join Bowie in his new band. :(

dying like flies

sibeen said:

Dale Griffin, the drummer from Mott the Hoople, has decided to join Bowie in his new band. :(

No more musicians or actors can die without my permission

If somebody was to suggest to me that not a single poster in this thread had ever heard of the hierarchy of risk control, I would believe them.

sibeen said:

Dale Griffin, the drummer from Mott the Hoople, has decided to join Bowie in his new band. :(

Working together again.
Bowie wrote and produced MTH’s biggest hit.

Ian said:

Forget the strawman, what you want is “straw house”…

The external temperature reached a scorching 1000degC while inside the house was a cool 35degC. There was minimal damage to the straw house’s cladding and while the steel frame heated up to 100–110degC it remained structurally sound and intact.

https://blog.csiro.au/straw-house-1-fire-0/

The mostly steel house in a fire was shown on Catalyst…

Usually a bushfire front takes 30 or 40 seconds to pass. For two minutes, this house has to withstand temperatures up to 1200 degrees. A fire resistant house is only as good as its weakest point. First, the window fails, and then the door burns through. Now things get ugly. As the house fills with hot smoke, the temperature inside leaps to more than 200 degrees.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2922902.htm

if you notice, there is no external sprinkler system

I’d like to provide weak evidence in favour of Rule’s hypothesis by confirming that I have not heard of the hierarchy of risk control.

Rule 303 said:

If somebody was to suggest to me that not a single poster in this thread had ever heard of the hierarchy of risk control, I would believe them.

:)

diddly-squat said:

AwesomeO said:

I see a business in building houses out of asbestos. Can’t go wrong!

seriously though that’s exactly what it was such a popular building material… fire resistant, water proof, strong yet light, inexpensive to produce…

Pity that the fibro houses were shit boxes and that the house still burned even if the cladding didn’t.

dv said:

I’d like to provide weak evidence in favour of Rule’s hypothesis by confirming that I have not heard of the hierarchy of risk control.

It will be one of those things that sounds more important than it is. It probably just means risk grading.

buffy said:

dv said:

I’d like to provide weak evidence in favour of Rule’s hypothesis by confirming that I have not heard of the hierarchy of risk control.

It will be one of those things that sounds more important than it is. It probably just means risk grading.

I thought it was about risk management?

buffy said:

dv said:

I’d like to provide weak evidence in favour of Rule’s hypothesis by confirming that I have not heard of the hierarchy of risk control.

It will be one of those things that sounds more important than it is. It probably just means risk grading.

That seems like a very pejorative assessment. Risk grading is a method of estimating risk – The ‘hierarchy’ is is a collection of five approaches to controlling risk. Google is your friend.

> I think the answer is to perhaps change the zoning to prohibit the construction of residential dwellings in areas that are known to be in significantly high risk areas.

The legislation exists. A colleague of mine (my former boss) is unable to build a home on his Victorian property because it’s considered a high bushfire risk area.