Date: 22/01/2016 22:01:34
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 834984
Subject: More news on EM Drive thruster

http://sci-techuniverse.blogspot.com.au/2015/11/nasa-conducts-more-secret-tests-of-its.html

The ‘impossible’ fuel-free engine, which could take a humans to Mars in just 10 weeks, is still challenging science. When the idea was initially suggested, it was considered improbable as it went in contradiction with the laws of physics. But subsequent tests of the EM Drive have shown that the idea could revolutionize space travel. Now NASA has provided the first public update on the test in months, and it appears to propose that it does, in fact, work.

Researchers, though, still do not know why.

The update was given by Paul March, one of the top engineers employed on the EM Drive thruster at the Eagleworks Laboratory at the Johnson Space Center in Texas. He said NASA has achieved to remove some of the mistakes from former tests – but still discovered signals of mysterious thrust. March’s announcement is the first direct announcement in months, with the space agency mostly remaining silent about any developments on the notorious project.

March posted on the NASA Spaceflight forum in reply to an unpublished paper that claims the unaccounted thrust is produced by something known as the Lorentz force. The Lorentz force is the force that is applied by a magnetic field on a moving electric charge.

But March says his tests prove this is not true.

more at URL

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Date: 22/01/2016 22:55:02
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 835007
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

According to the abstract of the technical article, the drive is based on James Woodward’s flux capacitor, which in turn is based on a movie starring Marty McFly.

The reference to it as Mach-Lorenz is interesting in itself as Mach’s principle must rank as the one of the most willfully misunderstood parts of relativity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach%27s_principle

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Date: 24/01/2016 11:53:07
From: dv
ID: 835435
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

The only confirmational tests that NASA performed were not done in a vacuum. Seems like a waste of time: when you are measuring an effect of a few micronewtons, the slightest air current cause by temperature difference can wreck the results.

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Date: 24/01/2016 13:24:54
From: Bubblecar
ID: 835442
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

So is Zarkov behind this project?

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Date: 24/01/2016 13:36:17
From: dv
ID: 835446
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

In all fairness: if I were NASA I would not be spending money on this, on a number of counts:

a) the results so far are anything but promising

b) the principle at stake relates to fundamental physics. The ramifications are much bigger than mere propulsion. If a massless propulsion system produced thrust in excess of power consumption divided by c, it would mean the biggest revolution in the physical sciences, ever. Throw out Newton, throw out Einstein.
This isn’t what NASA is for, and theoretical physics is not what they are good at.

If peer reviewed journals such as Nature Physics or the Annals of Physics won’t publish someone’s papers regarding such a fundamental matter, then NASA should not invest money in it.

Alternatively, if someone thinks that the decent physics journals are all some cabal trying to hush this up, then let them use their own money to build and demostrate it. Or the money of some idiot venture capital heir. It’s not NASA’s job to help these people out. They’ve got proper space exploration to do.

c) This whole thing smells like a scam. The results out of Dresden UT particularly suggest that.

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Date: 24/01/2016 13:45:35
From: sibeen
ID: 835451
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

dv said:

c) This whole thing smells like a scam. The results out of Dresden UT particularly suggest that.

Got a link for that?

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Date: 24/01/2016 13:50:19
From: dv
ID: 835452
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

https://tu-dresden.de/die_tu_dresden/fakultaeten/fakultaet_maschinenwesen/ilr/rfs/forschung/folder.2007-08-21.5231434330/ag_raumfahrtantriebe/JPC%2520-%2520Direct%2520Thrust%2520Measurements%2520of%2520an%2520EM%2520Drive%2520and%2520Evaluation%2520of%2520Possible%2520Side-Effects.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj6i5mvt8HKAhVjfaYKHT6tApkQFggdMAE&usg=AFQjCNH5L_CA9qc2TTRQeXE6g5uvC3aQsg

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Date: 24/01/2016 13:53:24
From: sibeen
ID: 835454
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

dv said:


https://tu-dresden.de/die_tu_dresden/fakultaeten/fakultaet_maschinenwesen/ilr/rfs/forschung/folder.2007-08-21.5231434330/ag_raumfahrtantriebe/JPC%2520-%2520Direct%2520Thrust%2520Measurements%2520of%2520an%2520EM%2520Drive%2520and%2520Evaluation%2520of%2520Possible%2520Side-Effects.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj6i5mvt8HKAhVjfaYKHT6tApkQFggdMAE&usg=AFQjCNH5L_CA9qc2TTRQeXE6g5uvC3aQsg

Ta.

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Date: 24/01/2016 14:55:53
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 835472
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

dv said:


https://tu-dresden.de/die_tu_dresden/fakultaeten/fakultaet_maschinenwesen/ilr/rfs/forschung/folder.2007-08-21.5231434330/ag_raumfahrtantriebe/JPC%2520-%2520Direct%2520Thrust%2520Measurements%2520of%2520an%2520EM%2520Drive%2520and%2520Evaluation%2520of%2520Possible%2520Side-Effects.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj6i5mvt8HKAhVjfaYKHT6tApkQFggdMAE&usg=AFQjCNH5L_CA9qc2TTRQeXE6g5uvC3aQsg

Dead link sorry.

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Date: 24/01/2016 14:56:36
From: wookiemeister
ID: 835473
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

i like all my impossible drives to be in german thanks

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Date: 24/01/2016 15:00:13
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 835474
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

wookiemeister said:


i like all my impossible drives to be in german thanks

It really needs to be thoroughly tested.
There’s still a bunch of ways to test it on Earth but it could also easily be done in orbit.

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Date: 24/01/2016 15:04:13
From: sibeen
ID: 835475
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

Spiny Norman said:

Dead link sorry.

Bill

https://tu-dresden.de/die_tu_dresden/fakultaeten/fakultaet_maschinenwesen/ilr/rfs/forschung/folder.2007-08-21.5231434330/ag_raumfahrtantriebe/JPC%20-%20Direct%20Thrust%20Measurements%20of%20an%20EM%20Drive%20and%20Evaluation%20of%20Possible%20Side-Effects.pdf

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Date: 24/01/2016 15:11:19
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 835478
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

sibeen said:


Spiny Norman said:

Dead link sorry.

Bill

https://tu-dresden.de/die_tu_dresden/fakultaeten/fakultaet_maschinenwesen/ilr/rfs/forschung/folder.2007-08-21.5231434330/ag_raumfahrtantriebe/JPC%20-%20Direct%20Thrust%20Measurements%20of%20an%20EM%20Drive%20and%20Evaluation%20of%20Possible%20Side-Effects.pdf

Got it and had a quick read, thanks.
Something odd going on by the looks of it. Anyway like I said on the Facepalm forum, it really needs the best version they can make to be tested. In orbit would be fine, with a control test subject to compare it against.

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Date: 24/01/2016 15:43:04
From: wookiemeister
ID: 835486
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

Spiny Norman said:


wookiemeister said:

i like all my impossible drives to be in german thanks

It really needs to be thoroughly tested.
There’s still a bunch of ways to test it on Earth but it could also easily be done in orbit.


take it up there i guess

you’d be better off asking the russians though

assuming they don’t already use it

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Date: 24/01/2016 15:54:14
From: dv
ID: 835492
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

wookiemeister said:


Spiny Norman said:

wookiemeister said:

i like all my impossible drives to be in german thanks

It really needs to be thoroughly tested.
There’s still a bunch of ways to test it on Earth but it could also easily be done in orbit.


take it up there i guess

you’d be better off asking the russians though

assuming they don’t already use it


Oh I think we’d have noticed if conservation of momentum got bruck.

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Date: 24/01/2016 15:57:09
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 835496
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

Oh I think we’d have noticed if conservation of momentum got bruck.

this is my contention. when you start saying that physics ‘can’t explain it”, then look to your experimental set-up.

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Date: 24/01/2016 16:01:13
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 835505
Subject: re: More news on EM Drive thruster

ChrispenEvan said:


Oh I think we’d have noticed if conservation of momentum got bruck.

this is my contention. when you start saying that physics ‘can’t explain it”, then look to your experimental set-up.

Sure, but in that paper that Deevs linked to there certainly something going on that needs to be tested to clear it up.
It’d be easy enough to do in orbit – Build a powerful one and make it thrust perpendicular to the axis of orbit. If it starts to slowly accelerate away from that orbit then it’s working. Use an otherwise identical but un-powered to provide a reference in a near orbit.

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