Date: 28/01/2016 09:47:57
From: The_observer
ID: 837450
Subject: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

In 1958, Carson’s interest in writing about the dangers of DDT was rekindled when she received a letter from a friend in Massachusetts bemoaning the large bird kills which had occurred on Cape Cod (allegedly) as the result of DDT sprayings.

Carson concluded that DDT and other pesticides had irrevocably harmed birds and animals and had contaminated the entire world food supply.

Silent Spring took Carson four years to complete. It meticulously described how DDT entered the food chain and accumulated in the fatty tissues of animals.

When President John F. Kennedy ordered the President’s Science Advisory Committee to examine the issues the book raised, its report thoroughly vindicated both Silent Spring and its author. As a result, DDT came under much closer government supervision and was eventually banned.

The most important legacy of Silent Spring, though, was a new public awareness that nature was vulnerable to human intervention. Rachel Carson had made a radical proposal: that, at times, technological progress is so fundamentally at odds with natural processes that it must be curtailed.

.

From – Save the Eagles International

US windfarms kill 10-20 times more than previously thought

HOW MUCH WILDLIFE CAN USA AFFORD TO KILL?
APRIL 2014

By Mark Duchamp

Originally published by The ECO Report

The Obama administration is issuing 30-year permits for “taking” (killing) bald and golden eagles. The great birds will be legally slaughtered “unintentionally” by lethal wind turbines installed in their breeding territories, and in “dispersion areas” where their young congregate

By chance (if you believe in coincidences), a timely government study claims wind farms will kill “only” 1.4 million birds yearly by 2030 (1). This new report is just one of many, financed with taxpayers’ money, aimed at convincing the public that additional mortality caused by wind plants is sustainable. – It is not.

Dr. Shawn Smallwood’s 2004 study, spanning four years, estimated that California’s Altamont Pass wind “farm” killed an average of 116 Golden Eagles annually (2). This adds up to 2,900 dead “goldies” since it was built 25 years ago. Altamont is the biggest sinkhole for the species, but not the only one, and industry-financed research claiming that California’s GE population is stable is but a white-wash.

Eagles are not the only victims. Smallwood also estimated that Altamont killed an average of 300 red-tailed hawks, 333 American kestrels and 380 burrowing owls annually – plus even more non-raptors, including 2,526 rock doves and 2,557 western meadowlarks.

In 2012, breaking the European omerta on wind farm mortality, the Spanish Ornithological Society (SEO/Birdlife) reviewed actual carcass counts from 136 monitoring studies. They concluded that Spain’s 18,000 wind turbines are killing 6-18 million birds and bats yearly.

Extrapolating that and similar (little publicized) German and Swedish studies, 39,000 U.S. wind turbines would not be killing “only” 440,000 birds (USFWS, 2009) or “just” 573,000 birds and 888,000 bats (Smallwood, 2013) (4), but 13-39 million birds and bats every year!

However, this carnage is being covered up by self-serving and/or politically motivated government agencies, wind industry lobbyists, environmental groups and ornithologists, under a pile of misleading studies paid for with more taxpayer money.

Wildlife expert Jim Wiegand has documented how areas searched under wind turbines are still confined to 200-foot radiuses, even though modern monster turbines catapult 90% of bird and bat carcasses much further. Windfarm owners, operating under voluntary(!) USFWS guidelines, commission studies that search much-too-small areas, look only once every 30-90 days, ensuring that scavengers remove most carcasses, and ignore wounded birds that happen to be found within search perimeters (5).

These research protocols are designed to guarantee extremely low mortality statistics, hiding the true death tolls – and the USFWS seems inclined to let the deception continue. In addition, bird mortality data are now considered to be the property of windfarm owners, which means the public no longer has a right to know.

Nevertheless, news has leaked that eagles are being hacked to death all across America. This is hardly surprising, as raptors are attracted to wind turbines. They perch on them to rest or scan for prey. They come because turbines are often built in habitats that have abundant food (live or carrion) and good winds for gliding (6).

Save the Eagles International (STEI) has posted photographs of raptors perched on nacelles or nonmoving blades, and ospreys building a nest on a decommissioned turbine. Moving blades don’t deter them either: videos show a turkey vulture perched on the hub of a spinning turbine, and a griffon vulture being struck (6). Birds perceive areas traveled by spinning blades as open space, unaware that blade tips are moving at up to 180 mph. Many are focused on prey. These factors make wind turbines “ecological death traps,” wherever they are located.

By 2030, the United States plans to produce 20% of its electricity from wind. That’s nearly six times as much as today, from three or four times as many turbines, striking more flying creatures due to their bigger size (even the mendacious study predicting 1.4 million bird kills recognizes this). Using the higher but still underestimated level of mortality published by Smallwood in 2013, by 2030 our wind turbines would be killing over 3 million birds and 5 million bats annually.

But this is shy of reality by a factor of ten, because 90% of casualties land outside the search perimeter and are not counted. We are thus really talking about an unsustainable death toll of 30 million birds and 50 million bats a year – and more still if we factor in other hide-the-mortality tricks documented by STEI.

This carnage includes protected species that cars and cats rarely kill: eagles, hawks, falcons, owls, condors, whooping cranes, geese, bats and many others. The raptor slaughter will cause rodent populations to soar. Butchery of bats (7), already being decimated by White Nose Syndrome (8), will hammer agriculture.

The U.S. Geological Survey says the value of pest-control services to US agriculture provided by bats ranges from $3.7 billion to as much as $53 billion yearly (9). These chiropters also control forest pests and serve as pollinators. Swedish studies have documented their attraction from nine miles away to insects that swarm around wind turbines (10). Hence the slaughter.

Wind lobbyists claim they need “regulatory certainty.” However, eagle “take” permits will also ensure extinction certainty – and ecological, agricultural, economic and social disasters that America cannot afford.

.
.

.

how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky ?
Yes, how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry ?
Yes, how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many eagles have died ?
The answer my friend is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 09:50:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 837451
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

I take it that you aren’t opposed to windfarming?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 09:54:09
From: The_observer
ID: 837452
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

roughbarked said:


I take it that you aren’t opposed to windfarming?

fuckwit

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 10:08:34
From: roughbarked
ID: 837453
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


roughbarked said:

I take it that you aren’t opposed to windfarming?

fuckwit

Oh OK, so you admit it?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 10:47:07
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 837473
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

> Dr. Shawn Smallwood’s 2004 study

Peer reviewed? Actually, no.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 10:59:47
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 837478
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

mollwollfumble said:


> Dr. Shawn Smallwood’s 2004 study

Peer reviewed? Actually, no.


But the 2008 follow-up was peer reviewed. Let’s see what Dr Smallwood had to say there.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.2193/2007-032/abstract
The 165-km2 Altamont Pass Wind Resource Area (APWRA) in west-central California includes 5,400 wind turbines, each rated to generate between 40 kW and 400 kW of electric power, or 580 MW total. Many birds residing or passing through the area are killed by collisions with these wind turbines. We searched for bird carcasses within 50 m of 4,074 wind turbines for periods ranging from 6 months to 4.5 years. Using mortality estimates adjusted for searcher detection and scavenger removal rates, we estimated the annual wind turbine–caused bird fatalities to number 67 (80% CI = 25–109) golden eagles (Aquila chrysaetos), 188 (80% CI = 116–259) red-tailed hawks (Buteo jamaicensis), 348 (80% CI = −49 to 749) American kestrels (Falco sparverius), 440 (80% CI = −133 to 1,013) burrowing owls (Athene cunicularia hypugaea), 1,127 (80% CI = −23 to 2,277) raptors, and 2,710 (80% CI = −6,100 to 11,520) birds. Adjusted mortality estimates were most sensitive to scavenger removal rate, which relates to the amount of time between fatality searches. New on-site studies of scavenger removal rates might warrant revising mortality estimates for some small-bodied bird species, although we cannot predict how the mortality estimates would change. Given the magnitude of our mortality estimates, regulatory agencies and the public should decide whether to enforce laws intended to protect species killed by APWRA wind turbines, and given the imprecision of our estimates, directed research is needed of sources of error and bias for use in studies of bird collisions wherever wind farms are developed. Precision of mortality estimates could be improved by deploying technology to remotely detect collisions and by making wind turbine power output data available to researchers so that the number of fatalities can be related directly to the actual power output of the wind turbine since the last fatality search.

Jeez, why would birds bother to kill themselves by running into wind turbines when there are plenty of perfectly good trees that they can run into?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:01:55
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 837481
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

You may also note that that sums to 0.5 birds (all species combined) per wind turbine per year.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:15:39
From: dv
ID: 837483
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

Jesus Christ, t_o. Give it up.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:25:29
From: The_observer
ID: 837488
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

mollwollfumble said:


You may also note that that sums to 0.5 birds (all species combined) per wind turbine per year.

67 golden eagles … (80% CI = 25–109)
188 red-tailed hawks … (80% CI = 116–259)
348 American kestrels…. (80% CI = −49 to 749)
440 burrowing owls (80% CI = −133 to 1,013)
1,127 raptors …..(80% CI = −23 to 2,277)
2,710 birds …..(80% CI = −6,100 to 11,520)

Annually, within 50 m of 4,074 turbines

That = 0.67

Wildlife expert Jim Wiegand has documented how areas searched under wind turbines are still confined to 200-foot radiuses,

even though modern monster turbines catapult 90% of bird and bat carcasses much further.

.

JUST HOW MANY BIRDS HAVE TO DIE? YOU GUYS, TO MAKE IT OK

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:26:39
From: diddly-squat
ID: 837489
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

coal it up party people….

cheap fuel = good times…

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:27:17
From: The_observer
ID: 837490
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

dv said:


Jesus Christ, t_o. Give it up.

what am I supposed to give up dv?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:27:51
From: dv
ID: 837492
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

diddly-squat said:

coal it up party people….

cheap fuel = good times…

The future is later.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:29:28
From: diddly-squat
ID: 837494
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

A U.S. News and World Report chart shows estimates of how many birds are killed each year by different fuel sources.CREDIT: U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/08/25/3475348/bird-death-comparison-chart/

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:31:01
From: diddly-squat
ID: 837496
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

dv said:


diddly-squat said:

coal it up party people….

cheap fuel = good times…

The future is later.

Give me an “N”
Give me an “O”
Give me a “W”

what does it spell???

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:32:34
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 837497
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

So how does coal kill all those birds?

Do you have those numbers in terms of birds/kWh?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:34:33
From: The_observer
ID: 837498
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

diddly-squat said:


A U.S. News and World Report chart shows estimates of how many birds are killed each year by different fuel sources.CREDIT: U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/08/25/3475348/bird-death-comparison-chart/

LOL, your link also states just below the graph –

“The results should be taken with a grain of salt. As U.S. News noted, each study used a different methodology to come up with their numbers. “There’s no standardized way of doing it that everyone can agree to,” Garry George, the renewable energy director for Audubon California, told the magazine.

AND

“As for coal, those bird death numbers came from a peer-reviewed study in the journal Renewable Energy.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:35:01
From: The_observer
ID: 837499
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The Rev Dodgson said:


So how does coal kill all those birds?

Do you have those numbers in terms of birds/kWh?

Kids throwing coal rocks

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:37:28
From: diddly-squat
ID: 837501
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The Rev Dodgson said:


So how does coal kill all those birds?

Do you have those numbers in terms of birds/kWh?

I assume it’s habitat destruction related to coal mining and coal fired power plants…

no idea on the per kWh basis but one would assume it would probably be far more comparable.

I think the basic idea here is that human infrastructure displaces natural habitat and that has an impact on many species of animals – no surprises here…

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:38:09
From: diddly-squat
ID: 837502
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

So how does coal kill all those birds?

Do you have those numbers in terms of birds/kWh?

Kids throwing coal rocks

coal isn’t a rock laddy

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:38:19
From: The_observer
ID: 837503
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

I also note diddly that Save the Eagles International don’t mention coal at their site

About Us

Save the Eagles International is an organization regrouping bird lovers, ornithologists and associations from 14 countries, who think that we cannot count on mainstream ornithologists and bird societies to save bird life from the windfarm threat. These derive much of their income from the wind business, and that creates a powerful conflict of interest that clouds their vision and corrupts their conscience.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:39:42
From: diddly-squat
ID: 837504
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

I think think the real issue we need to be pushing here is the eradication of domestic and feral cats…

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:40:05
From: The_observer
ID: 837506
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

diddly-squat said:


The_observer said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So how does coal kill all those birds?

Do you have those numbers in terms of birds/kWh?

Kids throwing coal rocks

coal isn’t a rock laddy

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:40:23
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 837507
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

diddly-squat said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

So how does coal kill all those birds?

Do you have those numbers in terms of birds/kWh?

I assume it’s habitat destruction related to coal mining and coal fired power plants…

no idea on the per kWh basis but one would assume it would probably be far more comparable.

I think the basic idea here is that human infrastructure displaces natural habitat and that has an impact on many species of animals – no surprises here…

Thanks d-s. I wonder if anyone has done a proper overall study.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:41:35
From: diddly-squat
ID: 837508
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


diddly-squat said:

The_observer said:

Kids throwing coal rocks

coal isn’t a rock laddy

rocks are made of minerals, coal is made of macerals.. coal is not a rock

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:42:21
From: The_observer
ID: 837509
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

diddly-squat said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

So how does coal kill all those birds?

Do you have those numbers in terms of birds/kWh?

I assume it’s habitat destruction related to coal mining and coal fired power plants…

I think the basic idea here is that human infrastructure displaces natural habitat and that has an impact on many species of animals – no surprises here…

like cities & aggriculture. imagine how many bird deaths they can blame on those two

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:42:23
From: dv
ID: 837510
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/acid-rain-linked-to-bird/

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:42:56
From: The_observer
ID: 837511
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

diddly-squat said:


The_observer said:

diddly-squat said:

coal isn’t a rock laddy

rocks are made of minerals, coal is made of macerals.. coal is not a rock

But kids can throw coal, at birds

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:46:58
From: dv
ID: 837512
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/want-to-save-70-million-birds-a-year-build-more-wind-farms-18274

This article claims that the avicide/GWh is 17 times higher by fossil fuels than by wind turbines.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 11:54:03
From: diddly-squat
ID: 837514
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

OK total global power generation capacity is somewhere in the region of 22,500 TWh (2014 stats)

on that basis the break down is

Using the numbers above I get the following for bird deaths per TWh

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 13:40:23
From: The_observer
ID: 837572
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

Shameful

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 13:44:49
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 837573
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

A lot of the studies being done on this are by people very close to Big Wind if not being paid by Big Wind they are being paid by governments who subsidise Big Wind with our money.

You’d need to be Diogenes to navigate to the real TRUTH.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 13:55:42
From: diddly-squat
ID: 837580
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

Shameful

like I said, if any of us really cared about bird deaths we’d be lobbying to have domestic and feral cats eradicated…

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:04:41
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 837586
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

which is exactly what you are doing. maybe go read the OP again.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:17:37
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 837594
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

roughbarked said:


The_observer said:

roughbarked said:

I take it that you aren’t opposed to windfarming?

fuckwit

Oh OK, so you admit it?

hehehe

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:18:00
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 837596
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

A few drones can keep birds away from windfarms.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:23:47
From: The_observer
ID: 837597
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

ChrispenEvan said:


Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

which is exactly what you are doing. maybe go read the OP again.

Look you dick, you go read the op again, & maybe for the first time you will see the words Save The Eagle International.

Then maybe your small brain will recognise the op contains their words, not mine.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:31:07
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 837600
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

which is exactly what you are doing. maybe go read the OP again.

Look you dick, you go read the op again, & maybe for the first time you will see the words Save The Eagle International.

Then maybe your small brain will recognise the op contains their words, not mine.

No point trying to bully people here

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:32:59
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 837602
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

No point trying to bully people here

especially me. seeing as i don’t read his tripe posts. i rely on others quoting him. masochists they are.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:49:03
From: Cymek
ID: 837614
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

So if wind farms do kill large numbers of birds then it’s the human races responsiblity to reduce these deaths as much a possible and if you like or dislike the technlogy for whatever reason (perhaps your masters tell you to) is irrelevant. Perhaps its covered up which is something people like to do if money is involved and if so then pretty poor form especially if you are building a technology that is trying to be environmentally friendly.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:49:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 837616
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

Shameful

I give a fuck about the numbers of birds killed by cars and trains and boats and planes.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:52:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 837621
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

roughbarked said:


The_observer said:

Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

Shameful

I give a fuck about the numbers of birds killed by cars and trains and boats and planes.


I also really am concerned about the billions of birds killed so you can eat and get fat. Billions of birds have been killed by farmers.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:53:25
From: ruby
ID: 837622
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

It’s a good thing the Vortex Bladeless wind turbine is under development then, so that treehuggers like The Observer can invest in windfarms. The bonus is that it will be 50% cheaper to make and 50% cheaper to operate. The Murican bald eagle will be safe!

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:56:56
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 837627
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

ruby said:


It’s a good thing the Vortex Bladeless wind turbine is under development then, so that treehuggers like The Observer can invest in windfarms. The bonus is that it will be 50% cheaper to make and 50% cheaper to operate. The Murican bald eagle will be safe!

yep new technology

in the meantime drones can chase away the birds from blade fans

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:57:07
From: The_observer
ID: 837628
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

ChrispenEvan said:


Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

which is exactly what you are doing. maybe go read the OP again.

Ironically your response confirms the accuracy of my statement

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:59:54
From: The_observer
ID: 837632
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

roughbarked said:


The_observer said:

Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

Shameful

I give a fuck about the numbers of birds killed by cars and trains and boats and planes.

Yeh, but not windmills

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 14:59:58
From: wookiemeister
ID: 837633
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind


less likely to kill birds

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:00:24
From: The_observer
ID: 837634
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

roughbarked said:


roughbarked said:

The_observer said:

Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

Shameful

I give a fuck about the numbers of birds killed by cars and trains and boats and planes.


I also really am concerned about the billions of birds killed so you can eat and get fat. Billions of birds have been killed by farmers.

Farmed birds

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:01:28
From: The_observer
ID: 837637
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

ruby said:


It’s a good thing the Vortex Bladeless wind turbine is under development then, so that treehuggers like The Observer can invest in windfarms. The bonus is that it will be 50% cheaper to make and 50% cheaper to operate. The Murican bald eagle will be safe!

Ruby, how good are they at killing birds when the winds not blowing?

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:03:18
From: roughbarked
ID: 837638
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


roughbarked said:

The_observer said:

Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

Shameful

I give a fuck about the numbers of birds killed by cars and trains and boats and planes.


,..
Yeh, but not windmills

billions more get killed by cars alone

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:04:18
From: diddly-squat
ID: 837640
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

roughbarked said:


The_observer said:

roughbarked said:

I give a fuck about the numbers of birds killed by cars and trains and boats and planes.


,..
Yeh, but not windmills

billions more get killed by cars alone

and cats… they are the work of the devil and no good will ever come of them…

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:04:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 837642
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

I give a fuck about the numbers of birds killed by cars and trains and boats and planes.


I also really am concerned about the billions of birds killed so you can eat and get fat. Billions of birds have been killed by farmers.

Farmed birds

Those too if you wish. No I’m talking about all types of birds that are considered pests to the farmers who cut down their trees and razed the land flat then brought in their farm cats to breed up and go feral.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:06:03
From: Cymek
ID: 837646
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

I suppose the evilness of it could fall into the below category

Most evil – deliberately designed (perhaps by cats) to kill birds
Evil – Not deliberately designed to kill birds but known soon after they do and too much money to alter them so research covered up.
Bad – Kills birds but research into how to prevent this ongoing
OK – newer models much safer

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:06:38
From: Arts
ID: 837647
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

diddly-squat said:


roughbarked said:

The_observer said:

,..
Yeh, but not windmills

billions more get killed by cars alone

and cats… they are the work of the devil and no good will ever come of them…

Yes. The feral cat population is more destructive than anything to native fauna.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:06:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 837648
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

diddly-squat said:


roughbarked said:

The_observer said:

,..
Yeh, but not windmills

billions more get killed by cars alone

and cats… they are the work of the devil and no good will ever come of them…

Absolutely correct.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:06:55
From: Cymek
ID: 837649
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

roughbarked said:


The_observer said:

roughbarked said:

I also really am concerned about the billions of birds killed so you can eat and get fat. Billions of birds have been killed by farmers.

Farmed birds

Those too if you wish. No I’m talking about all types of birds that are considered pests to the farmers who cut down their trees and razed the land flat then brought in their farm cats to breed up and go feral.

Wedgetail eagle was one wasn’t it

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:09:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 837651
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

roughbarked said:


The_observer said:

roughbarked said:

I also really am concerned about the billions of birds killed so you can eat and get fat. Billions of birds have been killed by farmers.

Farmed birds

Those too if you wish. No I’m talking about all types of birds that are considered pests to the farmers who cut down their trees and razed the land flat then brought in their farm cats to breed up and go feral.


who now want to get paid to shoot them

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:10:47
From: wookiemeister
ID: 837652
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

Cymek said:


roughbarked said:

The_observer said:

Farmed birds

Those too if you wish. No I’m talking about all types of birds that are considered pests to the farmers who cut down their trees and razed the land flat then brought in their farm cats to breed up and go feral.

Wedgetail eagle was one wasn’t it


large birds will eat cats

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:12:11
From: wookiemeister
ID: 837653
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

American Bald Eagle Eats Cat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vddqk7GVW2k

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:40:11
From: The_observer
ID: 837664
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

roughbarked said:


The_observer said:

roughbarked said:

I also really am concerned about the billions of birds killed so you can eat and get fat. Billions of birds have been killed by farmers.

Farmed birds

Those too if you wish. No I’m talking about all types of birds that are considered pests to the farmers who cut down their trees and razed the land flat then brought in their farm cats to breed up and go feral.

Stop making excuses for turbines

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:48:33
From: ruby
ID: 837667
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

Wind turbines are great!
Unless you have a fossil fuel company though, those people don’t like wind turbines as much as everybody else. But they’re old dinosaurs, hanging onto old technology.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:55:55
From: jjjust moi
ID: 837668
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

ChrispenEvan said:


Its quite clear that no one here gives a fuck really about bird deaths in general, only about how they are killed & whether that can be linked to a particular technology associated to a particular political persuasion.

which is exactly what you are doing. maybe go read the OP again.


He wrote the original post, get with it.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 15:58:49
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 837670
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

LOL.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 18:00:43
From: The_observer
ID: 837726
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

ruby said:


Wind turbines are great!
Unless you have a fossil fuel company though, those people don’t like wind turbines as much as everybody else. But they’re old dinosaurs, hanging onto old technology.

Ruby? You should have taken part in the square root of sarcasm thread. Fossil fuel will not only be non affected by renewables any time soon, but they are investing in them, as well as donating millions of $ to environmental groups, who r more than happy to accept their fossil fuel generated cash

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 18:08:47
From: Cymek
ID: 837730
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The bigger worry with the energy generation is the few hold the many to ransom over supply and price and exploit the population who actually live in the various countries that have the reserves.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 18:10:34
From: roughbarked
ID: 837731
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


roughbarked said:

The_observer said:

Farmed birds

Those too if you wish. No I’m talking about all types of birds that are considered pests to the farmers who cut down their trees and razed the land flat then brought in their farm cats to breed up and go feral.

Stop making excuses for turbines

You are a basket case.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/01/2016 18:20:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 837738
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


ruby said:

Wind turbines are great!
Unless you have a fossil fuel company though, those people don’t like wind turbines as much as everybody else. But they’re old dinosaurs, hanging onto old technology.

Ruby? You should have taken part in the square root of sarcasm thread. Fossil fuel will not only be non affected by renewables any time soon, but they are investing in them, as well as donating millions of $ to environmental groups, who r more than happy to accept their fossil fuel generated cash

I’m an environmental group. Please send some of your dirty money so I can launder it through planting trees.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/01/2016 01:44:33
From: bob(from black rock)
ID: 837953
Subject: re: Slient Spring, The Answer is Blowin in the Wind

The_observer said:


dv said:

Jesus Christ, t_o. Give it up.

what am I supposed to give up dv?

Breathing?

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