The islands of Malta and Gozo are the most famous location of these mysterious and ancient paired grooves in the rock (also known as Cart Tracks).

I have been trying to make sense of these. They are parallel worn grooves in the rock that look like wheel ruts, but there is no evidence of any animal or human pulling/pushing. They appear to be around 10 million years old. I have no idea what they could be.

Some sites here:

http://www.cartrutsmalta.com/

but be warned, some of their theories are a bit crazy.

http://www.earthbeforeflood.com/auto_roads_or_cart_ruts_of_neogene_times_in_central_turkey.html

Drainage?

Kingy said:

The islands of Malta and Gozo are the most famous location of these mysterious and ancient paired grooves in the rock (also known as Cart Tracks).

I have been trying to make sense of these. They are parallel worn grooves in the rock that look like wheel ruts, but there is no evidence of any animal or human pulling/pushing. They appear to be around 10 million years old. I have no idea what they could be.

Some sites here:

http://www.cartrutsmalta.com/

but be warned, some of their theories are a bit crazy.

http://www.earthbeforeflood.com/auto_roads_or_cart_ruts_of_neogene_times_in_central_turkey.html

Karst landscape weathering feature.

How have they been dated?

I heard a great story about the standard gauge railway . The story goes that the rails were laid in cart tracks that dated back to roman times so the 4 foot eight and a half inches of standard gauge railway tracks approximates to two horses’ bums as they pulled a roman cart.

Disclaimer: This could be bullshit :)

From wiki: Karst

The development of karst occurs whenever acidic water starts to break down the surface of bedrock near its cracks, or bedding planes. As the bedrock (like limestone or dolostone) continues to break down, its cracks tend to get bigger. As time goes on, these fractures will become wider, and eventually, a drainage system of some sort may start to form underneath. If this underground drainage system does form, it will speed up the development of karst arrangements there because more water will be able to flow through the region.

Seem the date used is the date of the rock.

Limestone weathers in all sorts of ways. This is one: rilles.

Michael V said:

Seem the date used is the date of the rock.

Limestone weathers in all sorts of ways. This is one: rilles.

So the date of the rock is not necessarily the date of the ruts.
they do look too regular for natural drainage

Postpocelipse said:

From wiki: Karst

The development of karst occurs whenever acidic water starts to break down the surface of bedrock near its cracks, or bedding planes. As the bedrock (like limestone or dolostone) continues to break down, its cracks tend to get bigger. As time goes on, these fractures will become wider, and eventually, a drainage system of some sort may start to form underneath. If this underground drainage system does form, it will speed up the development of karst arrangements there because more water will be able to flow through the region.

It appears to me that these features are from water flowing over the exposed limestone surface not through cracks, nevertheless it’s a quite common early karst weathering feature.

Michael V said:

Postpocelipse said:

From wiki: Karst

The development of karst occurs whenever acidic water starts to break down the surface of bedrock near its cracks, or bedding planes. As the bedrock (like limestone or dolostone) continues to break down, its cracks tend to get bigger. As time goes on, these fractures will become wider, and eventually, a drainage system of some sort may start to form underneath. If this underground drainage system does form, it will speed up the development of karst arrangements there because more water will be able to flow through the region.

It appears to me that these features are from water flowing over the exposed limestone surface not through cracks, nevertheless it’s a quite common early karst weathering feature.

Yes I was simply indicating the basic appropriation of pre-existing faults or features that become washed out through time. I would assume the regularity of these features are connected to the uprise of the islands. Would that be close?

pommiejohn said:

Michael V said:

Seem the date used is the date of the rock.

Limestone weathers in all sorts of ways. This is one: rilles.

So the date of the rock is not necessarily the date of the ruts.
they do look too regular for natural drainage

Yes.

Yes they do, but karst does some truly amazing things. Think sinkholes, caves, stalactites, stalagmites, and “gravestone landscapes”. The last one is the end result of the surficial processes that produce these rilles early on.

Postpocelipse said:

Michael V said:

Postpocelipse said:

From wiki: Karst

The development of karst occurs whenever acidic water starts to break down the surface of bedrock near its cracks, or bedding planes. As the bedrock (like limestone or dolostone) continues to break down, its cracks tend to get bigger. As time goes on, these fractures will become wider, and eventually, a drainage system of some sort may start to form underneath. If this underground drainage system does form, it will speed up the development of karst arrangements there because more water will be able to flow through the region.

It appears to me that these features are from water flowing over the exposed limestone surface not through cracks, nevertheless it’s a quite common early karst weathering feature.

Yes I was simply indicating the basic appropriation of pre-existing faults or features that become washed out through time. I would assume the regularity of these features are connected to the uprise of the islands. Would that be close?

I wouldn’t sat the regularity of the rilles is related to uplift, although the rilles themselves are.

Something that would contribute to this type of regularity would be the speed of the water draining off.

I believe there are some telling details in this link.

Malta Focal Point

Postpocelipse said:

Something that would contribute to this type of regularity would be the speed of the water draining off.

Possibly.

Postpocelipse said:

I believe there are some telling details in this link.

Malta Focal Point

The link indicates a layer of blue clay sandwiched between 4 layers of varying limestone. This would seem a likely culprit offhand. What say you MV?

Postpocelipse said:

Postpocelipse said:

I believe there are some telling details in this link.

Malta Focal Point

The link indicates a layer of blue clay sandwiched between 4 layers of varying limestone. This would seem a likely culprit offhand. What say you MV?

It erodes quickly but how would it have been laid in grooves initially?

Postpocelipse said:

Postpocelipse said:

I believe there are some telling details in this link.

Malta Focal Point

The link indicates a layer of blue clay sandwiched between 4 layers of varying limestone. This would seem a likely culprit offhand. What say you MV?

I doubt it. I think it’s a recent surface weathering feature on a moderately lithified, consistent grainsized limestone.

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

Postpocelipse said:

I believe there are some telling details in this link.

Malta Focal Point

The link indicates a layer of blue clay sandwiched between 4 layers of varying limestone. This would seem a likely culprit offhand. What say you MV?

It erodes quickly but how would it have been laid in grooves initially?

I believe there are clues in the link but MV would be far quicker at extracting the information accurately.

Michael V said:

Postpocelipse said:

Postpocelipse said:

I believe there are some telling details in this link.

Malta Focal Point

The link indicates a layer of blue clay sandwiched between 4 layers of varying limestone. This would seem a likely culprit offhand. What say you MV?

I doubt it. I think it’s a recent surface weathering feature on a moderately lithified, consistent grainsized limestone.

Would that be concordant with this extract from the link:

which passes into a white calcareous sandstone-compact, soft or porous but always rich in organic remains.

In karst landscapes weathering is concentrated along joints and bedding planes of the limestone producing a number of different sculptured features from the effects of solution. Depressions of all sizes and shapes pit the landscape surface and are the most obvious features associated with karst. Beneath the surface, solution results in the formation of caves, springs, underground water channels, and deposits from evaporation. http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/10s.html

http://ebooks.cambridge.org/chapter.jsf?bid=CBO9781139162722&cid=CBO9781139162722A009&tabName=Chapter&imageExtract=

Postpocelipse said:

Michael V said:

Postpocelipse said:

The link indicates a layer of blue clay sandwiched between 4 layers of varying limestone. This would seem a likely culprit offhand. What say you MV?

I doubt it. I think it’s a recent surface weathering feature on a moderately lithified, consistent grainsized limestone.

Would that be concordant with this extract from the link:

which passes into a white calcareous sandstone-compact, soft or porous but always rich in organic remains.

I certainly can’t read anything like that amount of stuff from the photographs. So I’ll just stick with the simple explanation:

The rilles look to me to be a karst landscape feature. I think it’s a recent surface weathering on the exposed surface of a moderately lithified, consistent grain-sized limestone.

Kingy said:

The islands of Malta and Gozo are the most famous location of these mysterious and ancient paired grooves in the rock (also known as Cart Tracks).

I have been trying to make sense of these. They are parallel worn grooves in the rock that look like wheel ruts, but there is no evidence of any animal or human pulling/pushing. They appear to be around 10 million years old. I have no idea what they could be.

Some sites here:

http://www.cartrutsmalta.com/

but be warned, some of their theories are a bit crazy.

http://www.earthbeforeflood.com/auto_roads_or_cart_ruts_of_neogene_times_in_central_turkey.html

Bottom image karst, as others have said.
Top image no more than a few thousand years old, looks like cart tracks in tuff, volcanic ash that has since set solid into rock.

mollwollfumble said:

Bottom image karst, as others have said.
Top image no more than a few thousand years old, looks like cart tracks in tuff, volcanic ash that has since set solid into rock.

The top image is on one of their ‘rolling hills’. The geology link I posted states that the islands blue clay layers form rolling hills. The image, to my eye, could pass for an eroded hill.

Postpocelipse said:

mollwollfumble said:

Bottom image karst, as others have said.
Top image no more than a few thousand years old, looks like cart tracks in tuff, volcanic ash that has since set solid into rock.

The top image is on one of their ‘rolling hills’. The geology link I posted states that the islands blue clay layers form rolling hills. The image, to my eye, could pass for an eroded hill.

The geology is sedimentary. Though volcanic ash may have fallen on the islands sometime since.

The world’s largest limestone karst is Australia’s Nullarbor Plain.

Only a very few of them have any evidence of propulsion(which doesn’t look like horses). You would expect horsedrawn carts to leave evidence of horse hoofprints.

Kingy said:

Only a very few of them have any evidence of propulsion(which doesn’t look like horses). You would expect horsedrawn carts to leave evidence of horse hoofprints.

It wasn’t carts it was karst

roughbarked said:

Kingy said:

Only a very few of them have any evidence of propulsion(which doesn’t look like horses). You would expect horsedrawn carts to leave evidence of horse hoofprints.

It wasn’t carts it was karst

Were they wheel tracks they look wide enough to be from a modern vehicle. Couldn’t see cart tracks getting widened that much and that evenly.

For what it’s worth, I have seen very similar tracks in WA, where soils have a clay base that sets like a rock when dry, but becomes soft during the wet. Similar tracks in WA are caused by a small number of heavy vehicles passing over, just before it becomes too sloppy for them to be bogged, but leaving deep wheel tracks. With additional rain the area would be avoided by drivers, as it becomes very soft and in such conditions, extremely difficult to extract yourself if bogged. On sloping ground, rain water would smooth the surrounding area and wash fine sediments away. I would think such an area is no longer used, thereby leaving only deeply rutted tracks.

PermeateFree said:

For what it’s worth, I have seen very similar tracks in WA, where soils have a clay base that sets like a rock when dry, but becomes soft during the wet. Similar tracks in WA are caused by a small number of heavy vehicles passing over, just before it becomes too sloppy for them to be bogged, but leaving deep wheel tracks. With additional rain the area would be avoided by drivers, as it becomes very soft and in such conditions, extremely difficult to extract yourself if bogged. On sloping ground, rain water would smooth the surrounding area and wash fine sediments away. I would think such an area is no longer used, thereby leaving only deeply rutted tracks.

Agree. That’s consistent with the geology of “blue clay layers” on Malta and Gozo mentioned above.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

For what it’s worth, I have seen very similar tracks in WA, where soils have a clay base that sets like a rock when dry, but becomes soft during the wet. Similar tracks in WA are caused by a small number of heavy vehicles passing over, just before it becomes too sloppy for them to be bogged, but leaving deep wheel tracks. With additional rain the area would be avoided by drivers, as it becomes very soft and in such conditions, extremely difficult to extract yourself if bogged. On sloping ground, rain water would smooth the surrounding area and wash fine sediments away. I would think such an area is no longer used, thereby leaving only deeply rutted tracks.

Agree. That’s consistent with the geology of “blue clay layers” on Malta and Gozo mentioned above.

Still doesn’t explain lots of things. Even if it did, it would mean that these cart tracks were created far more recently than the OP suggests.

Misraħ Għar il-Kbir

Postpocelipse said:

Misraħ Għar il-Kbir

Almost plausible.

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

Misraħ Għar il-Kbir

Almost plausible.

3.60 feet to 4.59 feet track width.

Erich Von Daniken should have the answers.
( If not he can make some up for you)

gaghalfrunt said:

Erich Von Daniken should have the answers.
( If not he can make some up for you)

hopefully, he’s dead by now.

roughbarked said:

gaghalfrunt said:

Erich Von Daniken should have the answers.
( If not he can make some up for you)

hopefully, he’s dead by now.

He is still around, kept alive by aliens.

If you Google Earth these co-ordinates ( 35.852709, 14.397125 ) you will see that from the air these ruts certainly do appear to be tracks leading from one place to another and not the result of karst formation.

Clapham Junction cart ruts co-ordinates 35.852709, 14.397125

fsm said:

If you Google Earth these co-ordinates ( 35.852709, 14.397125 ) you will see that from the air these ruts certainly do appear to be tracks leading from one place to another and not the result of karst formation.

Clapham Junction cart ruts co-ordinates 35.852709, 14.397125

Apart from the fact that they have to negotiate vertical cliffs to do so?

roughbarked said:

Apart from the fact that they have to negotiate vertical cliffs to do so?

There appears to be many roads, quarries, tombs and assorted buildings in the area so no problem with vertical cliffs.

fsm said:

roughbarked said:

Apart from the fact that they have to negotiate vertical cliffs to do so?

There appears to be many roads, quarries, tombs and assorted buildings in the area so no problem with vertical cliffs.

The cart tracks are not only on the plain but do go up and down vertical cliffs.