http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

Getting rarer, prices go up. I have mentioned a few times China getting richer is a disaster for many species.

Somebody should threaten sanctions.

AwesomeO said:

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

Getting rarer, prices go up. I have mentioned a few times China getting richer is a disaster for many species.

Does it really matter who gets richer?
Isn’t the effect on the environment much the same?

AwesomeO said:

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

Getting rarer, prices go up. I have mentioned a few times China getting richer is a disaster for many species.

I suppose that all we can hope is that as they get richer, they’ll get less superstitious.

dv said:

AwesomeO said:

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

Getting rarer, prices go up. I have mentioned a few times China getting richer is a disaster for many species.

I suppose that all we can hope is that as they get richer, they’ll get less superstitious.

Depends upon whether they spend it on education or not.

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

Getting rarer, prices go up. I have mentioned a few times China getting richer is a disaster for many species.

Does it really matter who gets richer?
Isn’t the effect on the environment much the same?

Well yes, if culturally you have a desire to aquire certain things then being richer increases your ability to aquire those things.

use drones to kill the poachers

a military drone fitted with a itch of missiles could be used to field test the system

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Getting rarer, prices go up. I have mentioned a few times China getting richer is a disaster for many species.

Does it really matter who gets richer?
Isn’t the effect on the environment much the same?

Well yes, if culturally you have a desire to aquire certain things then being richer increases your ability to aquire those things.

While ivory or ketamine may be culturally linked, why not any thing be. I think a desire to aquire is all you needed to have said.

dv said:

AwesomeO said:

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

Getting rarer, prices go up. I have mentioned a few times China getting richer is a disaster for many species.

I suppose that all we can hope is that as they get richer, they’ll get less superstitious.

they eat scorpions alive on sticks

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

Does it really matter who gets richer?
Isn’t the effect on the environment much the same?

Well yes, if culturally you have a desire to aquire certain things then being richer increases your ability to aquire those things.

While ivory or ketamine may be culturally linked, why not any thing be. I think a desire to aquire is all you needed to have said.

I don’t think that’s right. Increasing the level of wealth increases the amount you are willing to pay. There are risks involved in poaching: people won’t do it cheaply. If the total amount people are willing to spend on rhino horn goes up, then more people will be interested in being poachers (and, indeed, this appears to have occurred.)

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

Does it really matter who gets richer?
Isn’t the effect on the environment much the same?

Well yes, if culturally you have a desire to aquire certain things then being richer increases your ability to aquire those things.

While ivory or ketamine may be culturally linked, why not any thing be. I think a desire to aquire is all you needed to have said.

Hehehe, that’s funny.

move all the rhinos out of Africa and transfer them
to Australia in a large reserve , end of problem you just slap s lifetime prison term on anyone caught hunting them

wookiemeister said:

move all the rhinos out of Africa and transfer them
to Australia in a large reserve , end of problem you just slap s lifetime prison term on anyone caught hunting them

Produce synthetic rhino horn in labs and undercut the poachers.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Well yes, if culturally you have a desire to aquire certain things then being richer increases your ability to aquire those things.

While ivory or ketamine may be culturally linked, why not any thing be. I think a desire to aquire is all you needed to have said.

I don’t think that’s right. Increasing the level of wealth increases the amount you are willing to pay. There are risks involved in poaching: people won’t do it cheaply. If the total amount people are willing to spend on rhino horn goes up, then more people will be interested in being poachers (and, indeed, this appears to have occurred.)

People risk their lives for money everywhere, every day.

The desire to acquire provides both.. risk for money.

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Well yes, if culturally you have a desire to aquire certain things then being richer increases your ability to aquire those things.

While ivory or ketamine may be culturally linked, why not any thing be. I think a desire to aquire is all you needed to have said.

Hehehe, that’s funny.

Maybe but I was indeed speaking seriously. It is the desire to kill anyfukenthinginorder to havethingsthat belonged elsewhere.

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

move all the rhinos out of Africa and transfer them
to Australia in a large reserve , end of problem you just slap s lifetime prison term on anyone caught hunting them

Produce synthetic rhino horn in labs and undercut the poachers.

they wouldn’t buy the synthetic version

where does ketamine fit in this discussion? keratin, maybe?

wookiemeister said:

move all the rhinos out of Africa and transfer them
to Australia in a large reserve , end of problem you just slap s lifetime prison term on anyone caught hunting them

As usual though any plausibility is dwarfed by the outthereisms in your comment.

ChrispenEvan said:

where does ketamine fit in this discussion? keratin, maybe?

oops.. too many coopers.

they could just buy the rest of the existing rhinos and fly them out

we could swap them for military equipment

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

move all the rhinos out of Africa and transfer them
to Australia in a large reserve , end of problem you just slap s lifetime prison term on anyone caught hunting them

As usual though any plausibility is dwarfed by the outthereisms in your comment.

oh well

I guess they all die I suppose

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

move all the rhinos out of Africa and transfer them
to Australia in a large reserve , end of problem you just slap s lifetime prison term on anyone caught hunting them

As usual though any plausibility is dwarfed by the outthereisms in your comment.

oh well

I guess they all die I suppose

Work on the plausible part of your comment.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

As usual though any plausibility is dwarfed by the outthereisms in your comment.

oh well

I guess they all die I suppose

Work on the plausible part of your comment.

haven’t you ever heard of Noah’s ark ?

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

oh well

I guess they all die I suppose

Work on the plausible part of your comment.

haven’t you ever heard of Noah’s ark ?

Jesus wept.

the roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

Work on the plausible part of your comment.

haven’t you ever heard of Noah’s ark ?

Jesus wept.

roughie the writing is on the wall for rhinos in Africa

move them or they will be wiped out

wookiemeister said:

the roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

haven’t you ever heard of Noah’s ark ?

Jesus wept.

roughie the writing is on the wall for rhinos in Africa

move them or they will be wiped out

Doesn’t matter where they are. as has been said, if you have the money, you can buy whatever you desire. Even though money these days has no value other than a double entry on a computer.

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

If you want one action to halt then there needs to be another action to replace that undesirable action with. Specifically another viable industry.

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

If you want one action to halt then there needs to be another action to replace that undesirable action with. Specifically another viable industry.

And soon!

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

If you want one action to halt then there needs to be another action to replace that undesirable action with. Specifically another viable industry.

This always the issue. The void needs to be filled.

monkey skipper said:

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

If you want one action to halt then there needs to be another action to replace that undesirable action with. Specifically another viable industry.

And soon!

Indeed.

wookiemeister said:

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

move all the rhinos out of Africa and transfer them
to Australia in a large reserve , end of problem you just slap s lifetime prison term on anyone caught hunting them

Produce synthetic rhino horn in labs and undercut the poachers.

they wouldn’t buy the synthetic version

Wouldn’t need to inform them. Just weather your 3d printed horn up a bit and look like a salesman.

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

Postpocelipse said:

Produce synthetic rhino horn in labs and undercut the poachers.

they wouldn’t buy the synthetic version

Wouldn’t need to inform them. Just weather your 3d printed horn up a bit and look like a salesman.

Wouldn’t fool antiques roadshow.

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

they wouldn’t buy the synthetic version

Wouldn’t need to inform them. Just weather your 3d printed horn up a bit and look like a salesman.

Wouldn’t fool antiques roadshow.

If it’s just keratin a horn could be made very realistic. If you couldn’t get away with selling something ground and cutting out the messing around.

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

Wouldn’t need to inform them. Just weather your 3d printed horn up a bit and look like a salesman.

Wouldn’t fool antiques roadshow.

If it’s just keratin a horn could be made very realistic. If you couldn’t get away with selling something ground and cutting out the messing around.

Yeah, we all drop heaps of keratin every day.

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Wouldn’t fool antiques roadshow.

If it’s just keratin a horn could be made very realistic. If you couldn’t get away with selling something ground and cutting out the messing around.

Yeah, we all drop heaps of keratin every day.

Could make it part of a 2 part sting. Once your product had put a dint in the poachers sales the middle men could be drawn out and dispatched.

One thing you can say for the Chinese medicines, they are mostly truthful, when they say it contains tiger or leopard etc, DNA testing says yes, it does contain that DNA.

The one area where they don’t do counterfeits.

And the Chinese have fucked the antiquities and fossil markets.

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

If it’s just keratin a horn could be made very realistic. If you couldn’t get away with selling something ground and cutting out the messing around.

Yeah, we all drop heaps of keratin every day.

Could make it part of a 2 part sting. Once your product had put a dint in the poachers sales the middle men could be drawn out and dispatched.

I see what you did there.

AwesomeO said:

One thing you can say for the Chinese medicines, they are mostly truthful, when they say it contains tiger or leopard etc, DNA testing says yes, it does contain that DNA.

The one area where they don’t do counterfeits.

And the Chinese have fucked the antiquities and fossil markets.

true.

monkey skipper said:

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/africa/africa-rhinos-record-poaching/index.html

Poachers slaughtered a record number of rhinos last year in Africa as demand for their horns skyrockets in Asia.

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

If you want one action to halt then there needs to be another action to replace that undesirable action with. Specifically another viable industry.

And soon!

“Eco” Tourism.

AwesomeO said:

One thing you can say for the Chinese medicines, they are mostly truthful, when they say it contains tiger or leopard etc, DNA testing says yes, it does contain that DNA.

The one area where they don’t do counterfeits.

And the Chinese have fucked the antiquities and fossil markets.

How?

http://savingthesurvivors.org/ – they have a fb page.

Also Stroop – die film’s fb page.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Well yes, if culturally you have a desire to aquire certain things then being richer increases your ability to aquire those things.

While ivory or ketamine may be culturally linked, why not any thing be. I think a desire to aquire is all you needed to have said.

I don’t think that’s right. Increasing the level of wealth increases the amount you are willing to pay. There are risks involved in poaching: people won’t do it cheaply. If the total amount people are willing to spend on rhino horn goes up, then more people will be interested in being poachers (and, indeed, this appears to have occurred.)

That is not strictly correct, The Vietnamese are big purchasers of rhino horn, which the higher the price, gives the wealthy the bragging rights to tell everyone that they are indeed rich to afford such things. It also means these are the types of people that will send species extinct for no other reason than to show they are big and important men.

dv said:

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

I first want to point out that this is totally different to gorillas. Gorillas killed as killed as by-catch when caught in snares intended for antelope and deer. Rhino hunting is deliberate.

Is the number of poached animals proportional to the rhino population? Checking individual rhino populations, koala added just for comparison).
0 Bornean Rhino
50 Javan Rhino
275 Sumatran Rhino
2575 Indian Rhino
4890 Black Rhino
11600 Koala
20170 White Rhino = most populous rhino species

For the Koala, chlamydia disease recently killed “thousands” and there are pushes to cull more.

1338 Rhinos killed in one year is a shockingly high number. Is that number reliable? Probably yes.

All but 163 of these were poached in South Africa, where the number poached is finally now decreasing. The increase in poaching from year to year was smaller in 2014-5 than in any year since 2009-10. The peak increase in poached numbers was in 2012-3.

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

At least 1,338 rhinos were killed last year, the largest number since the poaching crisis intensified nearly a decade ago, according to data compiled by an international group.

The number of rhinos killed has gone up in the continent for six years in a row.

I first want to point out that this is totally different to gorillas. Gorillas killed as killed as by-catch when caught in snares intended for antelope and deer. Rhino hunting is deliberate.

Is the number of poached animals proportional to the rhino population? Checking individual rhino populations, koala added just for comparison).
0 Bornean Rhino
50 Javan Rhino
275 Sumatran Rhino
2575 Indian Rhino
4890 Black Rhino
11600 Koala
20170 White Rhino = most populous rhino species

For the Koala, chlamydia disease recently killed “thousands” and there are pushes to cull more.

1338 Rhinos killed in one year is a shockingly high number. Is that number reliable? Probably yes.

All but 163 of these were poached in South Africa, where the number poached is finally now decreasing. The increase in poaching from year to year was smaller in 2014-5 than in any year since 2009-10. The peak increase in poached numbers was in 2012-3.

The only reason the rhino killings might be reducing is because there are fewer rhinos to kill, some species are on the verge of extinction and most of the others highly endangered.

Gregory Peck
Rex Harrison
Cliff Robertson
John Wayne
Marlon Brando
Robert De Niro
Ben Kingsley
Forest Whitaker

dv said:

Gregory Peck
Rex Harrison
Cliff Robertson
John Wayne
Marlon Brando
Robert De Niro
Ben Kingsley
Forest Whitaker

Are they poached rhinos?

Poaching is almost solely of the southern white rhino. For population increase of southern white rhino: “The overwhelming rhino conservation success story is that of the southern white rhino. With numbers as low as 50 left in the wild in the early 1900s, this subspecies of rhino has now increased to between 19,682 and 21,077 and has become the most populous of all the rhino species.”

The indian rhino population has also been increasing.

mollwollfumble said:

Poaching is almost solely of the southern white rhino. For population increase of southern white rhino: “The overwhelming rhino conservation success story is that of the southern white rhino. With numbers as low as 50 left in the wild in the early 1900s, this subspecies of rhino has now increased to between 19,682 and 21,077 and has become the most populous of all the rhino species.”

The indian rhino population has also been increasing.

I think the following link gives a more correct assessment of the situation.
https://www.savetherhino.org/latest_news/news/1462_iucn_reports_deepening_rhino_poaching_crisis_in_africa

Well done Moll.
I was about to write an angry missive but it looks like the rhino can stand a bit of predation from poachers.
However we still need to keep up the war on poachers.

put a 200 dollar bounty on poachers

The government of Mauritius has announced its plans of culling 20 percent of the endemic and vulnerable Mauritius fruit bat (Pteropus niger) population on the island. The government hopes that fewer bats will help reduce damages to fruits like mangoes and litchis in orchards and boost revenue for fruit farmers.

http://news.mongabay.com/2015/10/mauritius-to-cull-18000-native-bats-nearly-40-percent-of-bat-population/

wookiemeister said:

put a 200 dollar bounty on poachers

lets go hunting poachers

This record of poaching in South Africa is the topmost reason why the SKA should have been allocated to Australia rather than South Africa. Any people who are happy to poach rhinos for profit will also be happy to participate in the even more lucrative trade of poaching radio telescope parts for profit.

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

Postpocelipse said:

Produce synthetic rhino horn in labs and undercut the poachers.

they wouldn’t buy the synthetic version

Wouldn’t need to inform them. Just weather your 3d printed horn up a bit and look like a salesman.

You saw the news story on this ?
It was suggested to print up fake horns and release them to the market

Cymek said:

Postpocelipse said:

wookiemeister said:

they wouldn’t buy the synthetic version

Wouldn’t need to inform them. Just weather your 3d printed horn up a bit and look like a salesman.

You saw the news story on this ?
It was suggested to print up fake horns and release them to the market

No but it does make a lot of sense. Especially if you want to record who is who in the poaching zoo.

mollwollfumble said:

This record of poaching in South Africa is the topmost reason why the SKA should have been allocated to Australia rather than South Africa. Any people who are happy to poach rhinos for profit will also be happy to participate in the even more lucrative trade of poaching radio telescope parts for profit.

They supposedly included South Africa as it would (might or probably not) help their local economy.

Wouldn’t need to inform them. Just weather your 3d printed horn up a bit and look like a salesman.

You saw the news story on this ?
It was suggested to print up fake horns and release them to the market

No but it does make a lot of sense. Especially if you want to record who is who in the poaching zoo.

The idea was it was the phallic symbol of the horns that was important not if they were real or not and you could probably fake them well enough with a 3d printer and synthetic horn they might pass. All in all its a pretty stupid reasont to kill an animal, it would be quite ironic if aliens came to earth and killed us for our teeth to use in some folk medicine.

the people who sell the horn (eg not the poachers) do testing. They can tell if it’s not real.

one way the authorities attack the problem is to use GPS and cameras drilled into the horns.
http://theconversation.com/spy-cam-rhinos-to-take-on-poachers-with-devices-hidden-in-their-horns-47681

there have also been attempts at tracking the journey of a horn using GPS, so the authorities can find the money people.

But with an industry in high demand and a lot of money being throw at it, conservation becomes less important to the people at the botttom, who also just want to feed their families. (I can make $20 per hour to protect them or I can make $200 per hour to drive them out of ‘protected areas’ for the poachers to kill)

Arts said:

the people who sell the horn (eg not the poachers) do testing. They can tell if it’s not real.

one way the authorities attack the problem is to use GPS and cameras drilled into the horns.
http://theconversation.com/spy-cam-rhinos-to-take-on-poachers-with-devices-hidden-in-their-horns-47681

there have also been attempts at tracking the journey of a horn using GPS, so the authorities can find the money people.

But with an industry in high demand and a lot of money being throw at it, conservation becomes less important to the people at the botttom, who also just want to feed their families. (I can make $20 per hour to protect them or I can make $200 per hour to drive them out of ‘protected areas’ for the poachers to kill)

I wonder if the end users would feel different about buying the product if they saw a graphic video of the rhinos being killed, probably not

At the risk of sounding bigoted …

Animal cruelty is not a big issue in the Sinosphere.

dv said:

At the risk of sounding bigoted …

Animal cruelty is not a big issue in the Sinosphere.

Wasn’t much of an issue anywhere a century ago.

Peak Warming Man said:

Well done Moll.
I was about to write an angry missive but it looks like the rhino can stand a bit of predation from poachers.
However we still need to keep up the war on poachers.

I don’t think by any stretch of the imagination, you can say that rhinos can stand a bit of predation from poachers.

Sumatran Rhino Goes Extinct in the Wild in Malaysia
http://www.livescience.com/51965-sumatran-rhino-extinct-in-malaysia.html

Only 3 Northern White Rhinos Remain in the World
http://www.livescience.com/52889-nola-northern-white-rhino-dies.html

Javan Rhino Officially Extinct In Vietnam
http://www.livescience.com/25967-vietnam-rhino-extinct.html

The Indian rhinoceros once ranged throughout the entire stretch of the Indo-Gangetic Plain, but excessive hunting and agricultural development reduced their range drastically to 11 sites in northern India and southern Nepal. In the early 1990s, between 1,870 and 1,895 rhinos were estimated to have been alive. In 2015, a total of 3,555 Indian rhinoceros are estimated to live in the wild.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rhinoceros

South Africa which has by far the largest population of rhinos in the world and is an incredibly important country for rhino conservation. However rhino poaching has reached a crisis point, and if the killing continues at this rate, we could see rhino deaths overtaking births in 2016-2018, meaning rhinos could go extinct in the very near future. Figures compiled by the South African Department of Environmental affairs show the dramatic escalation in poaching over recent years – see graph below.
https://www.savetherhino.org/rhino_info/poaching_statistics

Peak Warming Man said:

However we still need to keep up the war on poachers.

yes, the only ways are fried, boiled or scrambled… nothing more.

…sorry