roughbarked said:

kii said:

party_pants said:

Well that’s a bummer :(

What was it that was taken, if I may ask?

An hour was stolen. It’s 6:30am and it’s dark. Just yesterday it was beautiful with early morning light and crisp lovely air.
I hate DLFS.

You have my sympathy. They’ll give it back but it will all be too late.

Are there any studies on the effects of DLS on the human psyche?

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

kii said:

An hour was stolen. It’s 6:30am and it’s dark. Just yesterday it was beautiful with early morning light and crisp lovely air.
I hate DLFS.

You have my sympathy. They’ll give it back but it will all be too late.

Are there any studies on the effects of DLS on the human psyche?

there’re many many billions of unofficial applied ‘studies’ to do with temporal controls being performed at any moment, labrats

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

kii said:

An hour was stolen. It’s 6:30am and it’s dark. Just yesterday it was beautiful with early morning light and crisp lovely air.
I hate DLFS.

You have my sympathy. They’ll give it back but it will all be too late.

Are there any studies on the effects of DLS on the human psyche?

DLS = daylight saving. Negligible compared to shift work, jet lag, and circadian rhythm disorder, but I’ll look it up.

Losing sleep at the market: The daylight saving anomaly
The human circadian clock’s seasonal adjustment is disrupted by daylight saving time
Changing to daylight saving time cuts into sleep and increases workplace injuries.
Spring and autumn daylight saving time changes: studies of adjustment in sleep timings, mood, and efficiency

Let me know if the links don’t work.

Personal anecdote: I get tired by the end of daylight saving.

A study undertaken during the Sydney Olympics, when DLST was implemented in August in those Australian states observing it showed that, contrary to claims made by supporters, the total energy use (gas and electricity) increased during DLST.

Oh, but, people like to come home from work and socialise…go to the beach, BBQ etc. So stuff the people who want to wake up early and enjoy cool morning light before going to work.

It’s not about saving energy anymore.

buffy said:

Personal anecdote: I get tired by the end of daylight saving.

Yes whatever good is done by it, wears very thin by the end. Methinks they did extend it by too much.

Morning.

27°C at 74% RH here currently. Puffy clouds coming over the sand hill. As usual, they look lovely. Hopefully they will continue throughout the day, so as to block the sun a bit and I can continue with my yard pottering, weeding and re-organisation of my junk. Yesterday, I had a couple of magpies following me around while I was weeding. One was pretty constantly only about 30 cm from my weeding hand. Amazing.

In good (and for me, very exciting) news, I am now 85 kg, for the first time in over 30 years! That’s 12kg down in 5 months and 6kg since I started daily records in January. So, I am now over the half-way mark to my target. Very pleased.

:)

In bad news, my blood pressure machine is now recording arrhythmias way too regularly (daily), so I’d better go see a doktard, pronto. The doktard who was here full time quit in December, and I have no idea what the new arrangements are, apart from another comes across from Tin Can Bay sometimes. So, I’d better walk down there today and see if I can get an appointment…

btm said:

A study undertaken during the Sydney Olympics, when DLST was implemented in August in those Australian states observing it showed that, contrary to claims made by supporters, the total energy use (gas and electricity) increased during DLST.

Hardly surprising when people have to get up in the dark and turn stuff on or get home early and the house is hot, needing to be cooled down. Then there is the extra time for activity spending fuel on going skiing or extra mowings of lawns just because the time is available.

Sorry. Should’ve been in chat. My bad.

Michael V said:

Morning.

27°C at 74% RH here currently. Puffy clouds coming over the sand hill. As usual, they look lovely. Hopefully they will continue throughout the day, so as to block the sun a bit and I can continue with my yard pottering, weeding and re-organisation of my junk. Yesterday, I had a couple of magpies following me around while I was weeding. One was pretty constantly only about 30 cm from my weeding hand. Amazing.

In good (and for me, very exciting) news, I am now 85 kg, for the first time in over 30 years! That’s 12kg down in 5 months and 6kg since I started daily records in January. So, I am now over the half-way mark to my target. Very pleased.

:)

In bad news, my blood pressure machine is now recording arrhythmias way too regularly (daily), so I’d better go see a doktard, pronto. The doktard who was here full time quit in December, and I have no idea what the new arrangements are, apart from another comes across from Tin Can Bay sometimes. So, I’d better walk down there today and see if I can get an appointment…

For the first time in my life, the doctard has suggested that I purchase a blood pressure machine to monitor myself. Also my weight is more than it has been since I was 16, for the first time. However I have given up sweating in the hot sun and moved back indoors to sit down and do my daily work.

25.8°C, heading for the coolest day this month @ 33.

Michael V said:

Sorry. Should’ve been in chat. My bad.

Too bad, I answered it.

btm said:

A study undertaken during the Sydney Olympics, when DLST was implemented in August in those Australian states observing it showed that, contrary to claims made by supporters, the total energy use (gas and electricity) increased during DLST.

Well yeah. DLS = summer, when people use aircon.

Divine Angel said:

btm said:

A study undertaken during the Sydney Olympics, when DLST was implemented in August in those Australian states observing it showed that, contrary to claims made by supporters, the total energy use (gas and electricity) increased during DLST.

Well yeah. DLS = summer, when people use aircon.

I actually know people who leave it on all day, because they want to come home to a cool house in the hotter part of the day.

Divine Angel said:

btm said:

A study undertaken during the Sydney Olympics, when DLST was implemented in August in those Australian states observing it showed that, contrary to claims made by supporters, the total energy use (gas and electricity) increased during DLST.

Well yeah. DLS = summer, when people use aircon.

That was taken into consideration. Now I’ll have to find the original paper and review their methods.

btm said:

the total energy use (gas and electricity) increased during DLST.

Plenty of scientific studies about the influence of DLST on energy use.

Amusingly, I found two scientific studies of the influence of DLST on traffic accidents, that came to diametrically opposite conclusions. The main influence on traffic accidents is due to changes in lighting conditions rather than circadian rhythm.

Why don’t those people who don’t like DLST just get up an hour later when it’s on?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why don’t those people who don’t like DLST just get up an hour later when it’s on?

Oh…because things like work. Most employers prefer to have you turn up at work at a certain time.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why don’t those people who don’t like DLST just get up an hour later when it’s on?

presumably because they have to interact with the rest of society within a reasonably set timetable for things like work and study.

hey, I figure if you don’t like DLS you can always come and live in Queensland…

diddly-squat said:

hey, I figure if you don’t like DLS you can always come and live in Queensland…

The cure is worse than the disease.

Witty Rejoinder said:

diddly-squat said:

hey, I figure if you don’t like DLS you can always come and live in Queensland…

The cure is worse than the disease.

Please keep saying this; it’l keep all the Mexicans away.

:)

Witty Rejoinder said:

diddly-squat said:

hey, I figure if you don’t like DLS you can always come and live in Queensland…

The cure is worse than the disease.

Yeah…QLD. No.

Witty Rejoinder said:

diddly-squat said:

hey, I figure if you don’t like DLS you can always come and live in Queensland…

The cure is worse than the disease.

In fairness, if I were Emperor even QLD would have DLS.

diddly-squat said:

In fairness, if I were Emperor even QLD would have DLS.

We’re united on this stance. DLS makes sense for SEQ. FNQ can form their own state :p

What we really need is more night. Nights are seldom long enough for my liking.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why don’t those people who don’t like DLST just get up an hour later when it’s on?

I did that for many summers. I started consulting at 11.30am and finished at 8.00pm. When I was training for running, it was impossible after work during daylight saving as it was far, far too hot. So I re-organized my time. As a sole practitioner working by appointment, I had that luxury. I juggled the staff so they got two days late starts each week each. But most people can’t do that.

As I say each year with DLFS, when you have school-aged kids or kids that need to go to day care because of your work hours, trying to get them to sleep when it is still light outside really sucks. Thanks to all those who want to BBQ after work parents have battles with kids and tired kids. Thanks a lot.

When do the southern states come back on to Queensland Standard Time?

kii said:

As I say each year with DLFS, when you have school-aged kids or kids that need to go to day care because of your work hours, trying to get them to sleep when it is still light outside really sucks. Thanks to all those who want to BBQ after work parents have battles with kids and tired kids. Thanks a lot.

this feels to me a lot like the ‘will fade the curtains’ arguments… even in the absence of DLS, during summer at high latitudes it stays light till quite late and kids have been going to sleep there without much trouble for a very, very long time…

diddly-squat said:

kii said:

As I say each year with DLFS, when you have school-aged kids or kids that need to go to day care because of your work hours, trying to get them to sleep when it is still light outside really sucks. Thanks to all those who want to BBQ after work parents have battles with kids and tired kids. Thanks a lot.

this feels to me a lot like the ‘will fade the curtains’ arguments… even in the absence of DLS, during summer at high latitudes it stays light till quite late and kids have been going to sleep there without much trouble for a very, very long time…

No, it isn’t a ‘fade your curtains argument’.

Could you prove the last part of your response? My experience just as I wrote *shrug *

kii said:

diddly-squat said:

kii said:

As I say each year with DLFS, when you have school-aged kids or kids that need to go to day care because of your work hours, trying to get them to sleep when it is still light outside really sucks. Thanks to all those who want to BBQ after work parents have battles with kids and tired kids. Thanks a lot.

this feels to me a lot like the ‘will fade the curtains’ arguments… even in the absence of DLS, during summer at high latitudes it stays light till quite late and kids have been going to sleep there without much trouble for a very, very long time…

No, it isn’t a ‘fade your curtains argument’.

Could you prove the last part of your response? My experience just as I wrote *shrug *

My point is that people have lived, for a very long time, in places that have very long daylight hours and there is very little in the way of evidence to suggest this causes sleeping problems for anyone (let alone children).

grew up in a country that it was still light at 11pm. still you could catch up in winter when it got dark at 4pm.

>this feels to me a lot like the ‘will fade the curtains’ arguments

Can’t see how that applies. One thing that DLS does do is what it’s intended to do – ensure that it’s still light at a time it would normally be dark.

everyone shall have a job, and nobody shall work against time

Bubblecar said:

>this feels to me a lot like the ‘will fade the curtains’ arguments

Can’t see how that applies. One thing that DLS does do is what it’s intended to do – ensure that it’s still light at a time it would normally be dark.

the ‘will fade the curtains’ argument is based around trying to scare people into the idea that DLS is bad because it will have a negative effect…

I just think the sun waking up at 4.30am is ridiculous.

diddly-squat said:

Bubblecar said:

>this feels to me a lot like the ‘will fade the curtains’ arguments

Can’t see how that applies. One thing that DLS does do is what it’s intended to do – ensure that it’s still light at a time it would normally be dark.

the ‘will fade the curtains’ argument is based around trying to scare people into the idea that DLS is bad because it will have a negative effect…

More to the point, it’s based on the idea that DLS somehow changes basic physics.

DLS does have some negative effects for some people, but obviously that doesn’t include mythical stuff like curtain-fading etc.

*meh *

I give up.

kii said:

party_pants said:

Well that’s a bummer :(

What was it that was taken, if I may ask?

An hour was stolen. It’s 6:30am and it’s dark. Just yesterday it was beautiful with early morning light and crisp lovely air.
I hate DLFS.

Oh is that all. Stop your damn whining, you’ll get used to it soon enough.

Maybe we should have a forum vote :)

Me, I tend to find DLS largely annoying and find myself, on summer afternoons, mentally adjusting the time back to normal when working out how long before the heat (and need for sunscreen) will subside.

I find UV indices such as this one valuable for how long I need to apply sunscreen.
http://www.bom.gov.au/tas/uv/

>Maybe we should have a forum vote :)

could learn something from the ABC, the question could be

has chronological correctness gone mad

a few idiots could be invited to talk about it, and toward the end of the show a little bargraph with percentages could be shown to see which way the highly useful excercise went.

draws dick on ballot paper

get rid of DLS

Peak Warming Man said:

draws dick on ballot paper

I think he’s only standing if Bronwyn Bishop gets preselected.

Bubblecar said:

Peak Warming Man said:

draws dick on ballot paper

I think he’s only standing if Bronwyn Bishop gets preselected.

He is an old boiler fan.

Lighting conditions change over the year anyway.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Lighting conditions change over the year anyway.

Yes, it’s the jump that is difficult. As you move through Spring, you just start getting some daylight before 6.00am in the morning and lo and behold, overnight, suddenly that light level is 7.00am. The difference in light levels by the hour is quite a big jump, I’m guessing about 4 weeks worth of change done overnight. On the other end, you do gain a little in the mornings, but there must be something about the way the 6 months straddles the year. Right now here it is barely getting light at 7.00am. But we still have a few weeks to go before we swing the clocks back. So when we do, it will still be dark at 6.00am anyway. Maybe the DLS season is too long.

I know originally we started daylight saving on the last weekend in October, but that has been brought forward to the first weekend in October. I can’t remember when we used to finish it. And I can’t remember when it got changed either.

buffy said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Lighting conditions change over the year anyway.

Yes, it’s the jump that is difficult. As you move through Spring, you just start getting some daylight before 6.00am in the morning and lo and behold, overnight, suddenly that light level is 7.00am. The difference in light levels by the hour is quite a big jump, I’m guessing about 4 weeks worth of change done overnight. On the other end, you do gain a little in the mornings, but there must be something about the way the 6 months straddles the year. Right now here it is barely getting light at 7.00am. But we still have a few weeks to go before we swing the clocks back. So when we do, it will still be dark at 6.00am anyway. Maybe the DLS season is too long.

It never should have been lengthened.

buffy said:

Maybe the DLS season is too long.

When did it change to the first weekend in October to the first weekend in April? Used to be last weekend in Oct (because it was always around my birthday) to first weekend in March.

heh, buffy just answered me

Of the states that observe DST, most began on the last Sunday in October, and ended on the last Sunday in March, until 2008. Tasmania, owing to its further southern latitude) began DST earlier, on the first Sunday in October, and ended on the first Sunday of April.

On 12 April 2007, New South Wales, Victoria, Tasmania and the Australian Capital Territory agreed to common starting and finishing dates for DST. From the 2008/09 period, the start of DST in these states and in South Australia commences on the first Sunday in October and ends on the first Sunday in April. Western Australia became the only state to observe daylight saving from the last Sunday in October to the last Sunday in March. Since 2009 Western Australia no longer observes daylight saving.

Thank you. I wouldn’t have said it was that long ago. When I was working fulltime I used to get really, really ragged by the end of the period of daylight saving. It’s not as bad the last 4 years when I’ve been working 4 days a week. I have three days each week that I can let my body work to the light levels.

It was also started very early in 2000 for the Sydney Olympics. Beginning of September, I think.

At least they haven’t yet introduced compulsory daylight saving helmets.

Bubblecar said:

At least they haven’t yet introduced compulsory daylight saving helmets.

Don’t put the idea in their heads.

DLS should be avoided just on the basis it makes one 23hour day, + all the inaccuracies it causes after/during the shift/s forward until all’re reset, and then there’s the shift back of which makes a 25hour day, + there’s a 24th hour (at whatever time) you have twice, + all the clock inaccuracies until all are adjusted.

That’s what my three neurons reckon.

I love daylight saving time. The only thing I don’t like is when the change is not announced in the news. One year a friend of ours was scheduled to sing solo at the Sydney Opera House one Sunday, but because there was no DLS announcement in the news that year she arrived an hour late for her concert. That’s not the fault of DLS, that’s the fault of the bl$%^ news media.

Actually, if you are a person who uses the day, it doesn’t matter where the hands are on the clock. It is the clock though that makes daylight savings a pain.

Being self employed I basically make my own hours so I couldn’t give a shit whether we have Daylight Saving Time or not.

dv said:

Being self employed I basically make my own hours so I couldn’t give a shit whether we have Daylight Saving Time or not.

Exactly. However whenever you need to connect to shops or whatever, you need to be aware of the time.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Being self employed I basically make my own hours so I couldn’t give a shit whether we have Daylight Saving Time or not.

Exactly. However whenever you need to connect to shops or whatever, you need to be aware of the time.

Sure, I need to be aware of it, but being aware of it is easy.

I like DLS… I wish we had it

Arts said:

I like DLS… I wish we had it

You could always get out of bed an hour earlier.

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

I like DLS… I wish we had it

You could always get out of bed an hour earlier.

it would be convenient if the shops and uni and family would do the same … my vote ‘for’ didn’t have much sway I’m afraid

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

I like DLS… I wish we had it

You could always get out of bed an hour earlier.

Yeah but she can’t buy a latté at that hour.

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

I like DLS… I wish we had it

You could always get out of bed an hour earlier.

it would be convenient if the shops and uni and family would do the same … my vote ‘for’ didn’t have much sway I’m afraid

roughbarked said:

Are there any studies on the effects of DLS on the human psyche?

An example of the effect of DLS on the human psyche?

mollwollfumble said:

roughbarked said:

Are there any studies on the effects of DLS on the human psyche?

An example of the effect of DLS on the human psyche?

!http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/doomsday_clock.png

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

LOL!

I also voted for DLS in WA. I quite liked it, but I’m not an early riser. What killed it IMHO was for the last year of the 3 year trial they extended it out to the beginning of October because the rest of the country decided to change. That was just a bit too early in the year and it meant the early risers had to get up while it was still dark during October, which they didn’t like.

blame that egyption kid that fucked around with the town sundial one afternoon to get out of school early, then had to get up early the next morning, the following day there was a town meeting and all agreed this happy accident should become seasonal policy.

Michael V said:

mollwollfumble said:

roughbarked said:

Are there any studies on the effects of DLS on the human psyche?

An example of the effect of DLS on the human psyche?

!http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/doomsday_clock.png

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

LOL!

Yes. It was good. ;)