When should we worry about climate change?

News that Tasmania’s Cape Grim weather site had recorded its first baseline reading of 400 parts per million of carbon dioxide sparked some debate over the meaning of the milestone.

As we noted ahead of the declaration of the first recording of 400ppm in the southern hemisphere, the primary greenhouse gas increase carried not much more global warming significance than, say, 399 or 401 ppm.

more…

The time should have been decades ago when we might have had the ability to change a little at a time rather than now, when we need to do it very quickly. Our current population of over 7 billion people does not sound threatening, but when we look on the global map, we are virtually everywhere with few exceptions. So to radically change the way people live on this scale quickly, is more than difficult, but impossible; in other words despite the advances of renewable energy, things in most parts of the world are going to go move in a very similar direction. Now when we add at least another 2 billion and probably more, a way around the problem becomes even more unrealistic.

We as a species that are incapable of zero or negative growth, both in population or economics unless outside forces dominate and dictate the situation. There maybe some who do see and react, but the majority have other priorities and even with the converted when it comes to disadvantaging yourself and family, such sympathetic ideals are severely compromised. It is only when conditions become so drastic and detrimental to force change will any real advances be made and by then it will be to late, because the global warming ship is just too big to turn around in a few decades. So like it or not, global warming will continue on without us.

> We as a species that are incapable of zero or negative growth

Except following the collapse of the Roman Empire.
Also see “Neanderthal”.

mollwollfumble said:

> We as a species that are incapable of zero or negative growth

Except following the collapse of the Roman Empire.
Also see “Neanderthal”.

Why don’t you quote the whole passage rather than cherry picking to suit yourself, which lets face it is very silly practice.

mollwollfumble said:

> We as a species that are incapable of zero or negative growth

Except following the collapse of the Roman Empire.
Also see “Neanderthal”.

If you mean population growth, a very large chunk of the world is already in the negative in natural population growth rate, and it is a growing chunk.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_increase

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

> We as a species that are incapable of zero or negative growth

Except following the collapse of the Roman Empire.
Also see “Neanderthal”.

If you mean population growth, a very large chunk of the world is already in the negative in natural population growth rate, and it is a growing chunk.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_increase

I think you need to scroll down the entire page, as most countries are INCREASING in population numbers, and as an aside, where do you think the extra 2 billion are going to come from in less than 35 years?

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

> We as a species that are incapable of zero or negative growth

Except following the collapse of the Roman Empire.
Also see “Neanderthal”.

If you mean population growth, a very large chunk of the world is already in the negative in natural population growth rate, and it is a growing chunk.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_increase

I think you need to scroll down the entire page, as most countries are INCREASING in population numbers, and as an aside, where do you think the extra 2 billion are going to come from in less than 35 years?

What?

YOU stated that humans are incapable of zero or negative growth.

I’ve shown you that’s not true.

That’s it.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

If you mean population growth, a very large chunk of the world is already in the negative in natural population growth rate, and it is a growing chunk.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_increase

I think you need to scroll down the entire page, as most countries are INCREASING in population numbers, and as an aside, where do you think the extra 2 billion are going to come from in less than 35 years?

What?

YOU stated that humans are incapable of zero or negative growth.

I’ve shown you that’s not true.

That’s it.

No it is NOT IT. Go and read my entire post if you want to understand what I said and stop cherry-picking minor comments in order to divert attention from the real issues.

Population is what it is but the real issue is about what the population does.
Does with what, you may say or ask.
Does with everything pertaining to the impact of population of a species that thinks more about the wealth of assets than the health of the assets.

So the real issues are down to what we do. Yes, I agree with PF that if we had started change for climate rather than waste time arguing about whether the climate was changing.

What we do can start with everything we do. We are indeed a mass production unit, a mass consumption unit.

roughbarked said:

Population is what it is but the real issue is about what the population does.
Does with what, you may say or ask.
Does with everything pertaining to the impact of population of a species that thinks more about the wealth of assets than the health of the assets.

So the real issues are down to what we do. Yes, I agree with PF that if we had started change for climate rather than waste time arguing about whether the climate was changing.

What we do can start with everything we do. We are indeed a mass production unit, a mass consumption unit.

I still think Australia should form an Army Preserve……….

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Population is what it is but the real issue is about what the population does.
Does with what, you may say or ask.
Does with everything pertaining to the impact of population of a species that thinks more about the wealth of assets than the health of the assets.

So the real issues are down to what we do. Yes, I agree with PF that if we had started change for climate rather than waste time arguing about whether the climate was changing.

What we do can start with everything we do. We are indeed a mass production unit, a mass consumption unit.

I still think Australia should form an Army Preserve……….

I assume you are being serious, how about all offenders on community work actually do things like cleaning up water ways, rubbish collecting, etc instead of projects that are meant to make them feel good but are actually of zero benefit to anyone.

Cymek said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Population is what it is but the real issue is about what the population does.
Does with what, you may say or ask.
Does with everything pertaining to the impact of population of a species that thinks more about the wealth of assets than the health of the assets.

So the real issues are down to what we do. Yes, I agree with PF that if we had started change for climate rather than waste time arguing about whether the climate was changing.

What we do can start with everything we do. We are indeed a mass production unit, a mass consumption unit.

I still think Australia should form an Army Preserve……….

I assume you are being serious, how about all offenders on community work actually do things like cleaning up water ways, rubbish collecting, etc instead of projects that are meant to make them feel good but are actually of zero benefit to anyone.

Sure. The Army Preserve idea is mainly a means to provide a maximum effect facility with capped incomes. It would likely be of greatest necessity when warming has reached emergency levels.

Postpocelipse said:

Cymek said:

Postpocelipse said:

I still think Australia should form an Army Preserve……….

I assume you are being serious, how about all offenders on community work actually do things like cleaning up water ways, rubbish collecting, etc instead of projects that are meant to make them feel good but are actually of zero benefit to anyone.

Sure. The Army Preserve idea is mainly a means to provide a maximum effect facility with capped incomes. It would likely be of greatest necessity when warming has reached emergency levels.

Can’t say that assigning only criminal offenders to the problem seems either fair or of significant final result though…….

Postpocelipse said:

Postpocelipse said:

Cymek said:

I assume you are being serious, how about all offenders on community work actually do things like cleaning up water ways, rubbish collecting, etc instead of projects that are meant to make them feel good but are actually of zero benefit to anyone.

Sure. The Army Preserve idea is mainly a means to provide a maximum effect facility with capped incomes. It would likely be of greatest necessity when warming has reached emergency levels.

Can’t say that assigning only criminal offenders to the problem seems either fair or of significant final result though…….

No but in WA at least they won’t give them any work thats seen as punishment as it has to make them feel good so if nothing of this nature is available they just don’t do it.

Cymek said:

Postpocelipse said:

Postpocelipse said:

Sure. The Army Preserve idea is mainly a means to provide a maximum effect facility with capped incomes. It would likely be of greatest necessity when warming has reached emergency levels.

Can’t say that assigning only criminal offenders to the problem seems either fair or of significant final result though…….

No but in WA at least they won’t give them any work thats seen as punishment as it has to make them feel good so if nothing of this nature is available they just don’t do it.

Cute……..

Cymek said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Population is what it is but the real issue is about what the population does.
Does with what, you may say or ask.
Does with everything pertaining to the impact of population of a species that thinks more about the wealth of assets than the health of the assets.

So the real issues are down to what we do. Yes, I agree with PF that if we had started change for climate rather than waste time arguing about whether the climate was changing.

What we do can start with everything we do. We are indeed a mass production unit, a mass consumption unit.

I still think Australia should form an Army Preserve……….

I assume you are being serious, how about all offenders on community work actually do things like cleaning up water ways, rubbish collecting, etc instead of projects that are meant to make them feel good but are actually of zero benefit to anyone.

Yes there is a lot more they could be doing instead of wasting their time sitting in a prison cell. I bet many would welcome the opportunity of doing something useful.

Cymek said:

Postpocelipse said:

Postpocelipse said:

Sure. The Army Preserve idea is mainly a means to provide a maximum effect facility with capped incomes. It would likely be of greatest necessity when warming has reached emergency levels.

Can’t say that assigning only criminal offenders to the problem seems either fair or of significant final result though…….

No but in WA at least they won’t give them any work thats seen as punishment as it has to make them feel good so if nothing of this nature is available they just don’t do it.

Wrong track you are both on.

To fix climate change, we all, yes that is ALL of us, need to change.

I think it’s the taboo conversation about overpopulation, really.

Human instincts were honed of the ancestral environments, where scarcity was the norm, so our instincts are more as if threatened with extinction.

I’d say we’re a couple of billion overpopulated already.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Postpocelipse said:

Can’t say that assigning only criminal offenders to the problem seems either fair or of significant final result though…….

No but in WA at least they won’t give them any work thats seen as punishment as it has to make them feel good so if nothing of this nature is available they just don’t do it.

Wrong track you are both on.

To fix climate change, we all, yes that is ALL of us, need to change.

That is true but shouldn’t resources that exist be put to good use, if you could get people who are meant to be repaying society for misdeeds cleaning up rubbish, planting trees,etc it will help even if its a tiny effort. I agree that everyone needs to change a large percentage of the world population doesn’t even have the sort of lifestyle we enjoy imagine the stress on the planet when they want it.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

No but in WA at least they won’t give them any work thats seen as punishment as it has to make them feel good so if nothing of this nature is available they just don’t do it.

Wrong track you are both on.

To fix climate change, we all, yes that is ALL of us, need to change.

That is true but shouldn’t resources that exist be put to good use, if you could get people who are meant to be repaying society for misdeeds cleaning up rubbish, planting trees,etc it will help even if its a tiny effort. I agree that everyone needs to change a large percentage of the world population doesn’t even have the sort of lifestyle we enjoy imagine the stress on the planet when they want it.

Yes there are a lot of projects that people could work on and it needn’t be for punishment. These would be paying jobs. Change those working in dirty industries to doing clean work. The third world countries may not have our lifestyle but they are contributing to climate change by clearing forests and other activities.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Wrong track you are both on.

To fix climate change, we all, yes that is ALL of us, need to change.

That is true but shouldn’t resources that exist be put to good use, if you could get people who are meant to be repaying society for misdeeds cleaning up rubbish, planting trees,etc it will help even if its a tiny effort. I agree that everyone needs to change a large percentage of the world population doesn’t even have the sort of lifestyle we enjoy imagine the stress on the planet when they want it.

Yes there are a lot of projects that people could work on and it needn’t be for punishment. These would be paying jobs. Change those working in dirty industries to doing clean work. The third world countries may not have our lifestyle but they are contributing to climate change by clearing forests and other activities.

Community services offenders are a very small demographic. Forming an Army Preserve uses the established morale culture of the forces to foster a government funded community service institution without diverting armed forces to any unforeseen emergency that is of a natural origin.

The internal culture of our armed forces is commendable and positive and were it to nurture an Army Preserve committed to providing large numbers and prepared personnel and resources to emergencies such as earthquakes-tidal waves etc., this would positively influence the greater community in various manners.

transition said:

I think it’s the taboo conversation about overpopulation, really.

Human instincts were honed of the ancestral environments, where scarcity was the norm, so our instincts are more as if threatened with extinction.

I’d say we’re a couple of billion overpopulated already.

Yep and Gaia has thrown everything at us to keep us in check, bubonic plague, polio, Islam, aids, influenza and hooping cough to name but a few. But everytime science has been able to knock nature down so our numbers continue to burgeon.
Teaching our kids in primary school that they are gay or trans gender might work without having to legislate for compulsory culling by ballot of breeding age punters but it’s only a stopgap.
We just cant keep on building more and more ugly, landscape polluting, bird destroying wind farms forever.
A sunlit upland will only be achieved by greatly reducing our numbers as humanly as possible so that the mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.

Peak Warming Man said:

transition said:

I think it’s the taboo conversation about overpopulation, really.

Human instincts were honed of the ancestral environments, where scarcity was the norm, so our instincts are more as if threatened with extinction.

I’d say we’re a couple of billion overpopulated already.

Yep and Gaia has thrown everything at us to keep us in check, bubonic plague, polio, Islam, aids, influenza and hooping cough to name but a few. But everytime science has been able to knock nature down so our numbers continue to burgeon.
Teaching our kids in primary school that they are gay or trans gender might work without having to legislate for compulsory culling by ballot of breeding age punters but it’s only a stopgap.
We just cant keep on building more and more ugly, landscape polluting, bird destroying wind farms forever.
A sunlit upland will only be achieved by greatly reducing our numbers as humanly as possible so that the mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.

Contraception including sterilisation should be free, I wonder how many babies born exist loved and looked after but not planned.

I’m doing my part by putting pictures of Christopher Pyne up everwhere so no one will ever feel like having sex.

dv said:

I’m doing my part by putting pictures of Christopher Pyne up everwhere so no one will ever feel like having sex.

that’s funny, but it’s mean too.

you’re nasty.

;-)

Cymek said:

Peak Warming Man said:

transition said:

I think it’s the taboo conversation about overpopulation, really.

Human instincts were honed of the ancestral environments, where scarcity was the norm, so our instincts are more as if threatened with extinction.

I’d say we’re a couple of billion overpopulated already.

Yep and Gaia has thrown everything at us to keep us in check, bubonic plague, polio, Islam, aids, influenza and hooping cough to name but a few. But everytime science has been able to knock nature down so our numbers continue to burgeon.
Teaching our kids in primary school that they are gay or trans gender might work without having to legislate for compulsory culling by ballot of breeding age punters but it’s only a stopgap.
We just cant keep on building more and more ugly, landscape polluting, bird destroying wind farms forever.
A sunlit upland will only be achieved by greatly reducing our numbers as humanly as possible so that the mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.

Contraception including sterilisation should be free, I wonder how many babies born exist loved and looked after but not planned.

there are medicare elements for vasectomy procedures

dv said:

I’m doing my part by putting pictures of Christopher Pyne up everwhere so no one will ever feel like having sex.

dv said:

I’m doing my part by putting pictures of Christopher Pyne up everwhere so no one will ever feel like having sex.

:)

Just looking at Christopher Pyne for more than one second will cause permanent loss of any feeling.

• Just looking at Christopher Pyne for more than one second will cause permanent loss of any feeling.

that is demonstrably untrue…

furious said:

• Just looking at Christopher Pyne for more than one second will cause permanent loss of any feeling.

that is demonstrably untrue…

You get a stirring in your nether regions ?

• You get a stirring in your nether regions ?

No, I can’t dispute the first statement made…

furious said:

• Just looking at Christopher Pyne for more than one second will cause permanent loss of any feeling.

that is demonstrably untrue…

He turns you on?

furious said:

• Just looking at Christopher Pyne for more than one second will cause permanent loss of any feeling.

that is demonstrably untrue…

I feel like I want to punch him on the nose, because I feel so pissed off.

• He turns you on?

No. I was reacting to the statement about sex, I was reacting to the statement about “any feeling”…

• No. I was reacting to the statement about sex, I was reacting to the statement about “any feeling”…

That is to say…

No. I was not reacting to the statement about sex, I was reacting to the statement about “any feeling”…