http://citynews.com.au/2016/space-conference-at-mount-stromlo/

CLOSE to 100 of the world’s top space environment researchers will this week congregate on Mount Stromlo to discuss ways to clean up the masses of space debris currently orbiting earth; the same debris that recently cracked a window of the International Space Station.

The Space Environment Research Centre’s (SERC) International Research Colloquium, to be held from 31 May – 1 June, is the premier event of the year for the Canberra-based international research organisation.

The purpose of SERC’s collaborative research programs is to develop methods to remove the estimated 170 million pieces of man-made space debris that currently orbit the earth endangering vital space infrastructure.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-31/space-junk-collision-a-growing-threat-for-satellites/7463520

mollwollfumble said:

http://citynews.com.au/2016/space-conference-at-mount-stromlo/

CLOSE to 100 of the world’s top space environment researchers will this week congregate on Mount Stromlo to discuss ways to clean up the masses of space debris currently orbiting earth; the same debris that recently cracked a window of the International Space Station.

The Space Environment Research Centre’s (SERC) International Research Colloquium, to be held from 31 May – 1 June, is the premier event of the year for the Canberra-based international research organisation.

The purpose of SERC’s collaborative research programs is to develop methods to remove the estimated 170 million pieces of man-made space debris that currently orbit the earth endangering vital space infrastructure.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-31/space-junk-collision-a-growing-threat-for-satellites/7463520

I know there are plans for using lasers

How about using giant vacuum cleaners that start from the furthest debris orbits then work inwards to eventfully burn up with re entry

alternatively collecting these materials to to recycled in space

CrazyNeutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

http://citynews.com.au/2016/space-conference-at-mount-stromlo/

CLOSE to 100 of the world’s top space environment researchers will this week congregate on Mount Stromlo to discuss ways to clean up the masses of space debris currently orbiting earth; the same debris that recently cracked a window of the International Space Station.

The Space Environment Research Centre’s (SERC) International Research Colloquium, to be held from 31 May – 1 June, is the premier event of the year for the Canberra-based international research organisation.

The purpose of SERC’s collaborative research programs is to develop methods to remove the estimated 170 million pieces of man-made space debris that currently orbit the earth endangering vital space infrastructure.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-31/space-junk-collision-a-growing-threat-for-satellites/7463520

I know there are plans for using lasers

How about using giant vacuum cleaners that start from the furthest debris orbits then work inwards to eventfully burn up with re entry

alternatively collecting these materials to to recycled in space

You want to use vacuums in space? Really?

How about using giant vacuum cleaners…

bloody genius, you should tell NASA.

Original press release.
http://www.serc.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Media-Release-Space-Environment-Researchers-Meet-to-Clean-Up-Space-Junk.docx.pdf

I’ve had a couple of ideas.

Key is how to dissipate energies associated with speeds of km per s. The two ideas were firstly to use a giant trawl net, suitable for larger items. And second to use a slab of aerogel to catch smaller items. The aerogel would be fabricated in space, launch up a liquid saturated with dissolved gas. Release it in space and the gas produces bubbles just before the liquid sets into a solid.

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve had a couple of ideas.

Key is how to dissipate energies associated with speeds of km per s. The two ideas were firstly to use a giant trawl net, suitable for larger items. And second to use a slab of aerogel to catch smaller items. The aerogel would be fabricated in space, launch up a liquid saturated with dissolved gas. Release it in space and the gas produces bubbles just before the liquid sets into a solid.

If you set a net that was designed to approach from behind you would only be left with what to do with it when it’s full.

If they are in the same orbits why are they not doing the same speeds, maybe a decree to only launch in east west or whatever directions, maybe stack them if directions need to be different?

lots of different orbital parameters for all different uses. they do try to miss other stuff.

>. I know there are plans for using lasers

Press release on using lasers here.
http://www.elconfidencial.com/mundo/2014-07-07/australia-inventa-un-laser-para-destruir-basura-espacial-desde-la-tierra_150523/
It’s written in Spanish, use translate.
Australia desarrolla un láser para destruir basura espacial desde la Tierra.

also a lot of the debris isn’t satellites.

JudgeMental said:

also a lot of the debris isn’t satellites.

shatellites maybe……

JudgeMental said:

How about using giant vacuum cleaners…

bloody genius, you should tell NASA.

It would have to be creative :)

alright how about little ion engines that attach to the debris and then push the debris to burn up in the atmosphere

it would mean an ion engine for each piece of debris

CrazyNeutrino said:

JudgeMental said:

How about using giant vacuum cleaners…

bloody genius, you should tell NASA.

It would have to be creative :)

alright how about little ion engines that attach to the debris and then push the debris to burn up in the atmosphere

it would mean an ion engine for each piece of debris

how do you manage attachment?

AwesomeO said:

If they are in the same orbits why are they not doing the same speeds, maybe a decree to only launch in east west or whatever directions, maybe stack them if directions need to be different?

Not quite the same orbit. A big need is to pick up the pieces left after the Chinese satellite was deliberately exploded. Something like half of all the tracked space junk comes from that single source. So there is the original orbit plus a random component in all directions added by the explosion.

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

JudgeMental said:

How about using giant vacuum cleaners…

bloody genius, you should tell NASA.

It would have to be creative :)

alright how about little ion engines that attach to the debris and then push the debris to burn up in the atmosphere

it would mean an ion engine for each piece of debris

how do you manage attachment?

could be magnetic or glue

CrazyNeutrino said:

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

It would have to be creative :)

alright how about little ion engines that attach to the debris and then push the debris to burn up in the atmosphere

it would mean an ion engine for each piece of debris

how do you manage attachment?

could be magnetic or glue

but getting each small ion engine to each piece of debris? problematic.

does all the debris have to be deorbited?

can they recycle or use any material for other use?

AwesomeO said:

If they are in the same orbits why are they not doing the same speeds, maybe a decree to only launch in east west or whatever directions, maybe stack them if directions need to be different?

Where does it say or imply that they are in the same orbits?

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Postpocelipse said:

how do you manage attachment?

could be magnetic or glue

but getting each small ion engine to each piece of debris? problematic.

If you positioned an engine depositing satellite at highest orbit I suppose you could time each release to allow a gravity assisted path to debris located by the depository satellite

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Postpocelipse said:

how do you manage attachment?

could be magnetic or glue

but getting each small ion engine to each piece of debris? problematic.

a mother ship could orbit in the debris field and release them as needed

all the pieces of debris are mapped aren’t they?

get a computer program to work out the best way to orbit in the debris field

CrazyNeutrino said:

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

could be magnetic or glue

but getting each small ion engine to each piece of debris? problematic.

a mother ship could orbit in the debris field and release them as needed

all the pieces of debris are mapped aren’t they?

get a computer program to work out the best way to orbit in the debris field

snap…..

you realise how small some of this stuff is?

JudgeMental said:

you realise how small some of this stuff is?

Those are the bits you’d redeploy the space lasers Reagan thought up to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris

As of July 2013, there are over 170 million debris smaller than 1 cm (0.4 in). From one to ten cm at ~670,000, larger debris at 29,000. As of 2009, 19,000 debris over 5 cm (2 in) are tracked. Below 2000 km debris are denser than meteoroids; mostly dust from solid rocket motors, surface erosion debris like paint flakes, and frozen coolant from RORSAT nuclear-powered satellites. They cause damage akin to sandblasting, especially to solar panels and optics like telescopes or star trackers that can not be covered with a ballistic Whipple shield (unless it is transparent).

ok well how about a giant fold out scoop

I would be looking at the possibility of using any debris materials which can be reused up in space.

or creating a standard for re usable materials

Postpocelipse said:

JudgeMental said:

you realise how small some of this stuff is?

Those are the bits you’d redeploy the space lasers Reagan thought up to.

Can just imagine the conference…..

Reagan Gentleman, I’m just a bit concerned. Those big missiles you showed more sure are scary and if the Russians have the same or bigger no wonder we’ve been peeing in our pants for 30 years. What solutions are being looked at?

General Space-Stuff Satellites with lasers and dolphins with lasers

Reagan I thought about auditioning for Flash Gordon you know?

There might be different solutions for specific sizes of debris.

CrazyNeutrino said:

There might be different solutions for specific sizes of debris.

There are.

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

There might be different solutions for specific sizes of debris.

There are.

maybe for the really small debris pieces, bee type drones could float around and attach to very small pieces

like collecting pollen

glue all the pieces together

CrazyNeutrino said:

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

There might be different solutions for specific sizes of debris.

There are.

maybe for the really small debris pieces, bee type drones could float around and attach to very small pieces

like collecting pollen

glue all the pieces together

could static electricity be used to collect bits?

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

roughbarked said:

There are.

maybe for the really small debris pieces, bee type drones could float around and attach to very small pieces

like collecting pollen

glue all the pieces together

could static electricity be used to collect bits?

not coolant

maybe for plastic bits, use bacteria to eat them

for metal bits use a magnetic drone

which can rearrange bits to maximize its load

how about a fly swat drone to hit bits towards de-orbit

but not hard enough to break any bits

CrazyNeutrino said:

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

There might be different solutions for specific sizes of debris.

There are.

maybe for the really small debris pieces, bee type drones could float around and attach to very small pieces

like collecting pollen

glue all the pieces together

Lasers can push objects up to a certain size from as small as one centimetre up.

CrazyNeutrino said:

how about a fly swat drone to hit bits towards de-orbit

but not hard enough to break any bits

like a tennis racket but designed for really small bits

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

how about a fly swat drone to hit bits towards de-orbit

but not hard enough to break any bits

like a tennis racket but designed for really small bits

you could have different sized drones built for different sized objects

Wookie solution. You just build a tractor beam.

The intent is to use lasers to push what can be pushed into a safe orbit where it will harmlessly fall into our atmosphere and burn up.

Specially designed robots that could float in the debris field and collect bits up into a giant ball for de-orbit

AwesomeO said:

Wookie solution. You just build a tractor beam.

Some people are working on one.

Big balls of high tech wool, as they orbit they Hoover and trap debris then slowly sink as they get heavier.

AwesomeO said:

Big balls of high tech wool, as they orbit they Hoover and trap debris then slowly sink as they get heavier.

can you combine that with laser pointers and cats somehow?

AwesomeO said:

Wookie solution. You just build a tractor beam.

here is one design

Scientists Have Invented A Real-Life Tractor Beam That Manipulates Objects With Sound

Could you use sound waves in space to move small bits

…as they orbit they Hoover and trap debris then slowly sink as they get heavier.

orbits don’t work like that. it is speed that changes orbits not weight.

Postpocelipse said:

AwesomeO said:

Big balls of high tech wool, as they orbit they Hoover and trap debris then slowly sink as they get heavier.

can you combine that with laser pointers and cats somehow?

Your idea has leading merit I must comment.

CrazyNeutrino said:

AwesomeO said:

Wookie solution. You just build a tractor beam.

here is one design

Scientists Have Invented A Real-Life Tractor Beam That Manipulates Objects With Sound

Could you use sound waves in space to move small bits

Nope, no molecules to transfer the sound energy.

CrazyNeutrino said:

AwesomeO said:

Wookie solution. You just build a tractor beam.

here is one design

Scientists Have Invented A Real-Life Tractor Beam That Manipulates Objects With Sound

Could you use sound waves in space to move small bits

can’t hear you scream what did you say?

Could you use sound waves in space to move small bits

if there was some medium for the sound to propagate in.

JudgeMental said:

…as they orbit they Hoover and trap debris then slowly sink as they get heavier.

orbits don’t work like that. it is speed that changes orbits not weight.

Dohhhhh, I sort of knew that, which is why I questioned the speed before. Oh well, big balls of high tech wool that don’t sink.

Is there any way to use solar wind to move debris?

channel the solar wind in some way?

JudgeMental said:

…as they orbit they Hoover and trap debris then slowly sink as they get heavier.

orbits don’t work like that. it is speed that changes orbits not weight.

with pieces of differing orbits colliding with a large piece of nano-wool you are at least confining irregular objects to a single trajectory……

CrazyNeutrino said:

Is there any way to use solar wind to move debris?

channel the solar wind in some way?

I was thinking about this ie magnetics etc but not my field really.

plenty of stuff that wouldn’t be magnetic.

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Is there any way to use solar wind to move debris?

channel the solar wind in some way?

I was thinking about this ie magnetics etc but not my field really.

I thought about magnetics but a large percentage would be aluminium.

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Is there any way to use solar wind to move debris?

channel the solar wind in some way?

I was thinking about this ie magnetics etc but not my field really.

I see.

AwesomeO said:

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Is there any way to use solar wind to move debris?

channel the solar wind in some way?

I was thinking about this ie magnetics etc but not my field really.

I thought about magnetics but a large percentage would be aluminium.

or coolant and fuel which is probably more dangerous with build up in our orbit…….

Peak Warming Man said:

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Is there any way to use solar wind to move debris?

channel the solar wind in some way?

I was thinking about this ie magnetics etc but not my field really.

I see.

:P

Peak Warming Man said:

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Is there any way to use solar wind to move debris?

channel the solar wind in some way?

I was thinking about this ie magnetics etc but not my field really.

I see.

snigger

the Ion engines could be reused over and over and over

all they have to do is set the debris object on another trajectory

CrazyNeutrino said:

the Ion engines could be reused over and over and over

all they have to do is set the debris object on another trajectory

what about the fuel and the coolant collecting up there?

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

the Ion engines could be reused over and over and over

all they have to do is set the debris object on another trajectory

what about the fuel and the coolant collecting up there?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster

An ion thruster is a form of electric propulsion used for spacecraft propulsion. It creates thrust by accelerating ions with electricity. The term is strictly used to refer to gridded electrostatic ion thrusters, but may more loosely be applied to all electric propulsion systems that accelerate plasma, since plasma consists of ions.

Ion thrusters are categorized by how they accelerate the ions, using either electrostatic or electromagnetic force. Electrostatic thrusters use the Coulomb force and accelerate the ions in the direction of the electric field. Electromagnetic thrusters use the Lorentz force. In either case, when an ion passes through an electrostatic grid engine, the potential difference of the electric field converts to the ion’s kinetic energy.

more…

CrazyNeutrino said:

Postpocelipse said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

the Ion engines could be reused over and over and over

all they have to do is set the debris object on another trajectory

what about the fuel and the coolant collecting up there?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster

An ion thruster is a form of electric propulsion used for spacecraft propulsion. It creates thrust by accelerating ions with electricity. The term is strictly used to refer to gridded electrostatic ion thrusters, but may more loosely be applied to all electric propulsion systems that accelerate plasma, since plasma consists of ions.

Ion thrusters are categorized by how they accelerate the ions, using either electrostatic or electromagnetic force. Electrostatic thrusters use the Coulomb force and accelerate the ions in the direction of the electric field. Electromagnetic thrusters use the Lorentz force. In either case, when an ion passes through an electrostatic grid engine, the potential difference of the electric field converts to the ion’s kinetic energy.

more…

err…… I don’t get it?

gunna use a lot of fuel chasing down bits to hang a thruster off them.

JudgeMental said:

gunna use a lot of fuel chasing down bits to hang a thruster off them.

i thought the steel wool idea had merit for collecting fuel and coolant depending on it’s nano-structure maybe

JudgeMental said:

gunna use a lot of fuel chasing down bits to hang a thruster off them.

How long can an Ion engine operate for?

how long would it take to reordinate a piece of debris?

find a piece of debris attache to it , re postion the debris, send it another trajectory

the ion engines could stay in the debris field

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_2416.html

While the Dawn spacecraft is visiting the asteroids Vesta and Ceres, NASA Glenn has been developing the next generation of ion thrusters for future missions. NASA’s Evolutionary Xenon Thruster (NEXT) Project has developed a 7-kilowatt ion thruster that can provide the capabilities needed in the future.

An ion thruster produces small levels of thrust relative to chemical thrusters, but does so at higher specific impulse (or higher exhaust velocities), which means that an ion thruster has a fuel efficiency of 10-12 times greater than a chemical thruster. The higher the rocket’s specific impulse (fuel efficiency), the farther the spacecraft can go with a given amount of fuel. Given that an ion thruster produces small levels of thrust relative to chemical thrusters, it needs to operate in excess of 10,000 hours to slowly accelerate the spacecraft to speeds necessary to reach the asteroid belt or beyond.

The NEXT ion thruster has been operated for over 43,000 hours, which for rocket scientists means that the thruster has processed over 770 kilograms of xenon propellant and can provide 30 million-newton-seconds of total impulse to the spacecraft. This demonstrated performance permits future science spacecraft to travel to varied destinations, such as extended tours of multi-asteroids, comets, and outer planets and their moons.

Its obvious that many different methods will be used.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Its obvious that many different methods will be used.

or won’t be……….

Refueling ships will be needed

find a piece of debris attache to it , re postion the debris, send it another trajectory

how are you going to send it on another trajectory without an engine? and if it has an engine then you’ll have to get that back to attach it to another piece. or are they disposable engines? if not then it is going to be a lot of back and forth with that engine. plus trajectories are at all different angles and reorienting a spacecraft isn’t as easy as starwars makes out.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Refueling ships will be needed

No.

JudgeMental said:

find a piece of debris attache to it , re postion the debris, send it another trajectory

how are you going to send it on another trajectory without an engine? and if it has an engine then you’ll have to get that back to attach it to another piece. or are they disposable engines? if not then it is going to be a lot of back and forth with that engine. plus trajectories are at all different angles and reorienting a spacecraft isn’t as easy as starwars makes out.

… is if you use the force :/

JudgeMental said:

find a piece of debris attache to it , re postion the debris, send it another trajectory

how are you going to send it on another trajectory without an engine? and if it has an engine then you’ll have to get that back to attach it to another piece. or are they disposable engines? if not then it is going to be a lot of back and forth with that engine. plus trajectories are at all different angles and reorienting a spacecraft isn’t as easy as starwars makes out.

I was thinking of using re usable ion engines

they would stay in the main debris field

An ion engine would be used to re orientate the piece of debris

it would find a piece, attach to it, re orientate it, give it a little push, then detach, find another piece.

a refueling ship would be needed

it could follow the fleet of say a few hundred?

it would find a piece, attach to it, re orientate it, give it a little push, then detach, find another piece.

you have to change the speed by certain amounts to have any effect and these impulses have to be a specific times in the objects orbit. and as i said you then have to get the engine back to where you want it.

what is the eventual product of rocket fuels and coolants re-entering the atmosphere?

JudgeMental said:

it would find a piece, attach to it, re orientate it, give it a little push, then detach, find another piece.

you have to change the speed by certain amounts to have any effect and these impulses have to be a specific times in the objects orbit. and as i said you then have to get the engine back to where you want it.

I appreciate the fact that its not an easy task to remove over 170 million debris pieces

the engines could could high up and work their way inwards

computer controlled algorithms would work out the complex trajectories

what is really need is how to work out how to stop space debris

materials that could be re tasked, recycled,

paint that does not flack off

rockets that use use less parts

Postpocelipse said:

what is the eventual product of rocket fuels and coolants re-entering the atmosphere?

hardly noticeable.

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

what is the eventual product of rocket fuels and coolants re-entering the atmosphere?

hardly noticeable.

with what coolant does to paint?

The Chinese that blew up a satellite in space did not help either.

We need UN laws to prevent reckless destruction.

CrazyNeutrino said:

The Chinese that blew up a satellite in space did not help either.

We need UN laws to prevent reckless destruction.

what about reckless construction?

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

what is the eventual product of rocket fuels and coolants re-entering the atmosphere?

hardly noticeable.

with what coolant does to paint?

the atmosphere is big.

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

hardly noticeable.

with what coolant does to paint?

the atmosphere is big.

But the lung of the mountain frog is small and sensitive sheifu?

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

with what coolant does to paint?

the atmosphere is big.

But the lung of the mountain frog is small and sensitive sheifu?

I am kinda including accumulation from all future spillage into my question……

Postpocelipse said:

Postpocelipse said:

roughbarked said:

the atmosphere is big.

But the lung of the mountain frog is small and sensitive sheifu?

I am kinda including accumulation from all future spillage into my question……

cancer spreads.

roughbarked said:

Postpocelipse said:

Postpocelipse said:

But the lung of the mountain frog is small and sensitive sheifu?

I am kinda including accumulation from all future spillage into my question……

cancer spreads.

vegemite……

Julian Castro, who a lot of people are talking about as Clinton’s VP pick, has an identical twin, Congressman Joaquin Castro.

So that would be weird.

i wouldn’t think fuel to be a big part of the debris.

dv said:

Julian Castro, who a lot of people are talking about as Clinton’s VP pick, has an identical twin, Congressman Joaquin Castro.

So that would be weird.

Is that some sort of method role Jauquin is preparing for?

dv said:

Julian Castro, who a lot of people are talking about as Clinton’s VP pick, has an identical twin, Congressman Joaquin Castro.

So that would be weird.

Wrong thread, pardon me.

JudgeMental said:

i wouldn’t think fuel to be a big part of the debris.

I will always remember your kindness in stilling my beating heart…… blink blink

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

There might be different solutions for specific sizes of debris.

There are.

How about this. Heat the ionosphere up a bit and it extends further away from the surface of the Earth. The resulting air drag would bring down all the LEO small debris to where they burn up, without having too much effect on the large satellites.