hey guys one of the new beds i made last year bed 4 Which is near compost bays. i have lettuce in there and noticed at one end that its holding heaps of water. how can i fix the draining in it. Compost, Chicken poo?

veg gardener said:

hey guys one of the new beds i made last year bed 4 Which is near compost bays. i have lettuce in there and noticed at one end that its holding heaps of water. how can i fix the draining in it. Compost, Chicken poo?

simply building the garden soil higher does fix the problem. so if you can just build up the bed that will give you the easiest solution. also look at taking some soil out of the path and putting it on the beds. paths should drain to a low point.

pepe said:

veg gardener said:

hey guys one of the new beds i made last year bed 4 Which is near compost bays. i have lettuce in there and noticed at one end that its holding heaps of water. how can i fix the draining in it. Compost, Chicken poo?

simply building the garden soil higher does fix the problem. so if you can just build up the bed that will give you the easiest solution. also look at taking some soil out of the path and putting it on the beds. paths should drain to a low point.

mm beds is rasied by one sleeper and we dont have any dirt paths here only grass around the garden beds. what i could do is move a sleeper away and dig down more and get rid of the dirt to add new stuff or chuck compost on top. i have some horse poo i can mix up with compost same with goat poo and straw from the stable would that be alright?

mm beds is rasied by one sleeper and we dont have any dirt paths here only grass around the garden beds. what i could do is move a sleeper away and dig down more and get rid of the dirt to add new stuff or chuck compost on top. i have some horse poo i can mix up with compost same with goat poo and straw from the stable would that be alright?
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digging down and removing a sleeper seems counterproductive. i think i would just add the poo and straw. i can’t quite imagine your situation – if the beds are a sleeper high – why have you got drainage problems? soil not draining?

pepe said:

mm beds is rasied by one sleeper and we dont have any dirt paths here only grass around the garden beds. what i could do is move a sleeper away and dig down more and get rid of the dirt to add new stuff or chuck compost on top. i have some horse poo i can mix up with compost same with goat poo and straw from the stable would that be alright?
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digging down and removing a sleeper seems counterproductive. i think i would just add the poo and straw. i can’t quite imagine your situation – if the beds are a sleeper high – why have you got drainage problems? soil not draining?

soil isn’t draining, think it has clay under it.

soil isn’t draining, think it has clay under it.
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i see – and your whole block is in a flood plain.
the soil will become more free draining if you keep adding poo and straw.
since this bed4 is new – it probably hasn’t had time for the soil to improve.

pepe said:

soil isn’t draining, think it has clay under it.
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i see – and your whole block is in a flood plain.
the soil will become more free draining if you keep adding poo and straw.
since this bed4 is new – it probably hasn’t had time for the soil to improve.

yeah its been in there this is it second summer.

and all other beds around it are fine and free draining. must just be this one, ill most probly try and fix it a bit with the lettuces in there other then that would i be best to wait till all the lettuces are gone.

veg gardener said:

pepe said:

soil isn’t draining, think it has clay under it.
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i see – and your whole block is in a flood plain.
the soil will become more free draining if you keep adding poo and straw.
since this bed4 is new – it probably hasn’t had time for the soil to improve.

yeah its been in there this is it second summer.

the worms will come now its rained. by next year you’ll see the clay is breaking down and the soil is becoming more free draining.
my clay is the same but i have a bit more slope on my land so the excess water flows away.

pepe said:

veg gardener said:

pepe said:

soil isn’t draining, think it has clay under it.
————-
i see – and your whole block is in a flood plain.
the soil will become more free draining if you keep adding poo and straw.
since this bed4 is new – it probably hasn’t had time for the soil to improve.

yeah its been in there this is it second summer.

the worms will come now its rained. by next year you’ll see the clay is breaking down and the soil is becoming more free draining.
my clay is the same but i have a bit more slope on my land so the excess water flows away.

yeah, ill try fixing it up.

maybe adding some gypsum will help VG as it breaks down the clay.

sweetcorn love wet feet – so maybe you can plant them in the saturated bed. some piccies of corn and lettuce.
i must be off cya.

bluegreen said:

maybe adding some gypsum will help VG as it breaks down the clay.

yeah.

pepe said:

sweetcorn love wet feet – so maybe you can plant them in the saturated bed. some piccies of corn and lettuce.
i must be off cya.

cya pepe i got my sweetcorn in the bed behind it.

pepe said:

sweetcorn love wet feet – so maybe you can plant them in the saturated bed.

seedlings, not seed.

Sweet corn and sunflowers yes.. :)
The bed is wet most likely because it is nearer the compost. Though it is possibe to have different patches of soil in the same half acre it is unlikely that there is clay under one bed only.

Gypsum doesn’t help all that much..
Sand with your mulch will do.

I’ve gardened on clay for most of my life.. horse manure and the rotted straw from under the stable straw fixed it.

Chook poop is a bit too powerful to use the way I use horse and cow manures. Best to compost chook poop a bit.. before you add it anywhere. Just straw and frequent applications of very diluted liquid manure is good enough.

roughbarked said:

Sweet corn and sunflowers yes.. :)
The bed is wet most likely because it is nearer the compost. Though it is possibe to have different patches of soil in the same half acre it is unlikely that there is clay under one bed only.

Gypsum doesn’t help all that much..
Sand with your mulch will do.

not closest to compost.

sometimes some spots don’t drain as well as others .. this may be about soil level or there may be another source of water also reaching that spot.. In places in my yard where water pools I dig a hole and toss an old metal bucket full of rocks or broken bricks then i cover that with mesh or metal with holes in it and cover it all up again.. wet spot disappears.

here’s the ABC GA fact sheet on clay soil and using gypsum http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s1676965.htm

for my clay it has worked well, except that the clay also contained a lot of silt, so had to add back good clay (bentonite).

^ Which leads me to say again .. Gypsum does not help all that much..

The way to break a clay soil is with organic matter.. I happen to live on top of a gypsum mine.. and no water penetrates my soil unless I force it to.

Clay actually happens every time soils get wet.. they settle clay out of the solution. The difficulty is to keep the soil particles apart. Fibre in the soils diet stops the constipation. No need for too many essential nutrients to cause complications.. Give the soil microbes something to eat.

Ants can be your best friend on clay soils.

Nothing wrong with clay.. all te best nutrients stay longer in clays. Drainage is the main issue.

The only place I have ever used bentonite is in those water table watch wells.

You know there is one thing I always detested.. despite their apparent usefulness .. is a soil scientist., I have never asked their advice and have often told them things that cause them to shake their heads and walk away.. but hey.. I’m the one with tonnes of food to send to the tip.. because no one is here to eat it other than slugs and slaters and birds. Scientists sit in an office studying test tubes and buy Macdonalds for lunch.

One thing you can be sure of in most Australian gardens is that our soils are amongst the heaviest in the world.

Most of us need a cay breaker.. we usually dump stuff on our lawns and gardens that kills worms. The mobile worm farm that our friend with the frizzy hair in WA showed us on GA .. is more the kind of thing that I do in my yard.. only I just make mobile compost heaps and push them around the yard. The worms do the underground stuff. I have numerous forks spades and shovels but all I use them for in the garden is to make a hole to put a plant in.

I live on top of calcrete and gypsum clays. My soil was Ph 11.. it is now a stable neutral Ph.. Water could never enter my soil unless it was broken. Water just runs away to a lower place unless I make efforts to interrupt it.. Those lower places never dry out while water is about.. The rest of the yard is dry unless I make efforts to change the situation. I made those efforts and was treated with derision by soil scientists and potting mix consultants.. until one day they started turning up asking what I was doing that they could not comprehend.

I’m talking about soils where you have to physically force water to enter.. but have the devil of a time making the water leave the profile to move somewhere else…

The Myth Busters say that fecal coliformes are everywhere in the air.. Jeez why didn’t they discuss soil water?

As I have pointed out .. My gardening effots have attracted the attention of many accredited “clever gardening science people”
with responses from “he’s crazy” .. to “University won’t be able to teach you anything because you already know more than any university course could teach you”.

i’ve got clay soil too.
i have tried gypsum but it is ineffectual.
the only way of beating my clay (there are millions of different clays – at least 6 different types on my 2 acres) is to totally overwhelm it. i dumped 80 big wheelbarrow loads of – fine sand, cowdung, mushroom compost, my compost, henhouse sweepings and more on 60 sq.m. of clay and forked it over. of the top 250mm of soil only 30% is now the original clay. this treatment has permanently changed the topsoil.

if you’re reading this – wats your excuse? – you should be sleeping LOL
i’ve got the flu’.

To quote my example for the day.. on a clay soil.. I ran my rainwater tank dry the day before the rain.. I received 47 mm in my rain gauge.. I noticed my tank was full .. I planted one more tomato in the bed I was staking plants up that have already yielded 10 kg per plant but lying on the ground.. I turned the now full rainwter tank on to water that one plant.. in a soil that will not allow water to enter naturally.. or well man made type naturally.. meaning this soil has been farmed by farmers and buggered by same said farmers.. until I arrived this village was a dust bowl.

back to the rainwater.. Ok I did something else and forgot to turn the rainwater off.. yeah it is all now in my soil.. where it can do more good than it can do in the tank. there are no puddles .. the water has all enetred under tomatoes.. which in three days had the entire rainwater tank twice plus 47 mm of rain.. Despite being on clay soil.. I believe I will probably have to water again within a week or two, depending on the wind and the sun.

Despite having gardened on various clays and clay loams all my life..

I have never applied Lime

I applied Dolomite only in compost and only on the heavy dark rice growing clays.

I have only used Gypsum to test theories.

My garden literally runs on its own rubbish.. which mostly consists of good food that could easily support 25 people per half acre.

and.. OK that’s enough of the i me my myself stuff..

but it is all true .. about what I have learned from playing in the mud.

I can actually bury tonnes of fruit.. because I can’t be bothered with the BS of trying to sell organic food to nutters.

However.. my choice is to allow the birds and ants to eat what I don’t use.

The worms to clean up the rest.

Which assures me of a healthy and vibrant food source for all beings which live in my local environment.

the water has all enetred under tomatoes.. which in three days had the entire rainwater tank twice plus 47 mm of rain.. Despite being on clay soil.. I believe I will probably have to water again within a week or two, depending on the wind and the sun.
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your results are impressive – not least the 10kg per plant.
you’re right about earthworms too – once they get to 300 per sq.m. they radically modify clay. hence feeding the soil with worm food (organic matter) is the way to go.

because I can’t be bothered with the BS of trying to sell organic food to nutters.
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hey – isn’t that us?
selling is a BS pasttime. still – growing and dumping is not all together sane.

Im not actually right wing or left wing about anything .. “I’m not always right but I’m never wrong” ;) (my father-in-lw always said that).. Myself is often correct .. sometimes misguided but more often on the nail.

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hey – isn’t that us?
selling is a BS pasttime. still – growing and dumping is not all together sane.

_______________________________

You wanna buy a coupla kilo’s?

of food that is..

if you have a way of selling some 500 kilos of walnuts and tonnes of other fruits.. all organic.. then please email me with your ideas.. ond offers of partnerships in retailing.

Otherwise I’ll just keep allowing my pest controllers..the birds and ants.. to have their share.

You know I washed a 25 litre bucket of grasshoppers from mine and my wife’s radiators and engine compartments one evening.. the ants took the lot before dawn.

if you have a way of selling some 500 kilos of walnuts and tonnes of other fruits.. all organic.. then please email me with your ideas.. ond offers of partnerships in retailing.
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yeh i know – you’d spend more time retailing than growing.
still – retail prices are 10,000% higher than farm gate prices.

roughbarked said:

Otherwise I’ll just keep allowing my pest controllers..the birds and ants.. to have their share.

You know I washed a 25 litre bucket of grasshoppers from mine and my wife’s radiators and engine compartments one evening.. the ants took the lot before dawn.

grasshoppers must be nutritious – i’ve seen flocks of birds following swarms of hoppers.

Which is why I allow the slaters and ants and birds and worms to take all my excesses underground out of the taxman’s eye view.

When ibis are circling.. watch where they land.. it is often amidst swarming locusts before they fly.. spraying the locust swarms affects the ibis.

I clearly remember reading a letter written by a certain Mr Driver. he clearly stated that where he had his homestead on the station he ran, there used to be Mallee fowl and no locusts. After his property was divided up and more people arrived .. The Mallee fowl were eaten and the locust plagues started.

why mention birds in a clay soil thread?

Well birds eat things.. and things live in soil often enough..

the two days before the rain came, my wife was saying “they are downgrading the rain focasts” I said .. the ants aren’t .. come here” I showed here millions of sugar ants swarming ready to fly.. holes just appeared everywhere.. in a spot where nobody would have known that sugar ants lived .. if I hadn’t shown them. “They think it is going to be wet soon..” I said.

Over the course of the two days following that.. we received 47 mm.

White rumped miners were feasting on the swarming ants, blue wrens as well.

On this half acre of clay soil, I grow virtually all my food and could easily feed up to 25 others.. if they just ate what came from the yard. However.. at least half the yard is taken up by house sheds and native plants