The Washington Post said:

It may soon become a crime for Italian parents to keep their children from indulging in the country’s legendary meats and cheeses by restricting them to vegan options.

An Italian lawmaker proposed a bill last week that would punish parents with imprisonment for raising their children on “dangerous” vegan diets, which the legislation compares to domestic abuse.

“I have nothing against vegans or veganism as long as it is a free choice by adults,” the lawmaker, Elvira Savino of the conservative Forza Italia party, told Reuters Wednesday. “I just find it absurd that some parents are allowed to impose their will on children in an almost fanatical, religious way, often without proper scientific knowledge or medical consultation.”

Offending parents could be sentenced to at least a year-long stint in jail for restricting their children to a vegan diet, according to the BBC. If the child becomes sick or injured because of the diet the sentence rises to four years and again to six years if the child dies.

More at https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/08/11/an-italian-lawmaker-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-for-parents-to-feed-their-kids-vegan-diets/

A vegan diet, generally, is not child abuse.

An extremely deficient diet (vegan or nay) might be child abuse.

Meat, fish, eggs and cheese (in sensible portion sizes) are highly nutritious foods and growing children need highly nutritious foods. The imposition of silly fad diets that exclude such foods should certainly be discouraged.

>I just find it absurd that some parents are allowed to impose their will on children in an almost fanatical, religious way

I hope he similarly objects to the many parents who impose their religion on their children, too.

dv said:

A vegan diet, generally, is not child abuse.

An extremely deficient diet (vegan or nay) might be child abuse.

Yes, something like this. Failure to provide proper nutrition is probably already on the law books to some extent. A diet of nothin g but Fanta and popcorn would probably be just as bad.

Seems like it would be difficult to word the legislation properly if they just wanted to refer to vegan diets.

Bubblecar said:

Meat, fish, eggs and cheese (in sensible portion sizes) are highly nutritious foods and growing children need highly nutritious foods. The imposition of silly fad diets that exclude such foods should certainly be discouraged.

But what about the ethical considerations?

party_pants said:

dv said:

A vegan diet, generally, is not child abuse.

An extremely deficient diet (vegan or nay) might be child abuse.

Yes, something like this. Failure to provide proper nutrition is probably already on the law books to some extent. A diet of nothin g but Fanta and popcorn would probably be just as bad.

Seems like it would be difficult to word the legislation properly if they just wanted to refer to vegan diets.

I don’t think it would be difficult. It would be stupid but not difficult.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

Meat, fish, eggs and cheese (in sensible portion sizes) are highly nutritious foods and growing children need highly nutritious foods. The imposition of silly fad diets that exclude such foods should certainly be discouraged.

But what about the ethical considerations?

Indeed. What of them?

:)

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

Meat, fish, eggs and cheese (in sensible portion sizes) are highly nutritious foods and growing children need highly nutritious foods. The imposition of silly fad diets that exclude such foods should certainly be discouraged.

But what about the ethical considerations?

I would agree that it’s unethical for parents to forbid their children to enjoy and benefit from the world’s rich cultural heritage of fine foods derived from animal sources.

There was a vegan kid at one child care centre I ran, we found him eating out of the kitchen bin a few times.

This takes me straight back to a quote from Charles Dickens, I’ll see if I can find it.
Can’t find it. Something about the workhouse boys.

“Meat, they’re not used to it”
With the observation that boys remain tractable so long as they’re not fed meat, but become impossible to control when they are.

You know it is all full of shit. The vast majority of Italians I know eat far more vegetarian meals than meat. In fact the Italians are far more accepting of vegetarians than those of English descent. That you are what you eat may have a lot to do with the fact that those who are carnivores and I do mean those who are repelled by the sight of geen stuff on their plate, are the very ones who think it is a crime not to give your children meat at every meal. To go even further, the ones who are defensive in that they actually believe that any vegetarian is attempting to tell the meat eaters that they are in the wrong simply by denying to eat meat. There is no denying that there is nutrition in animal products but it can be denied that one will suffer from not eating any.

As for raising children, it is a wrong thing to suggest that all parents would starve their children because of their beliefs. Parenting is an intrinsic thing and though some are insensitive to their own nature, the vast majority are not. People who are childless may be exused for being unaware of this part of their nature if only because they were smart enough never to have inflicted themselves on the growth and development of the relationship between parent and chilld.

Our children constantly were recipient of high distinctions in science and maths, our son was head hunted the moment he finished school. They both topped the state in science and maths. They were never aggressive bullying types but both achieved the positions of and performed well in people management. They are both healthy sceptics of religions and cranks. They love their parents and family, are artistic and musical and are currently being very good parents themselves.

It is nonsense to suggest that they ever could have been otherwise.

roughbarked said:

You know it is all full of shit. The vast majority of Italians I know eat far more vegetarian meals than meat. In fact the Italians are far more accepting of vegetarians than those of English descent. That you are what you eat may have a lot to do with the fact that those who are carnivores and I do mean those who are repelled by the sight of geen stuff on their plate, are the very ones who think it is a crime not to give your children meat at every meal. To go even further, the ones who are defensive in that they actually believe that any vegetarian is attempting to tell the meat eaters that they are in the wrong simply by denying to eat meat. There is no denying that there is nutrition in animal products but it can be denied that one will suffer from not eating any.

As for raising children, it is a wrong thing to suggest that all parents would starve their children because of their beliefs. Parenting is an intrinsic thing and though some are insensitive to their own nature, the vast majority are not. People who are childless may be exused for being unaware of this part of their nature if only because they were smart enough never to have inflicted themselves on the growth and development of the relationship between parent and chilld.

Our children constantly were recipient of high distinctions in science and maths, our son was head hunted the moment he finished school. They both topped the state in science and maths. They were never aggressive bullying types but both achieved the positions of and performed well in people management. They are both healthy sceptics of religions and cranks. They love their parents and family, are artistic and musical and are currently being very good parents themselves.

It is nonsense to suggest that they ever could have been otherwise.

Vegan is more restrictive though. Most GP’s would want all of the basics included into the diet that are required for child development and growth. I can tell you a couple trying to have a baby were advised by their practitioner to include some fish and chicken in the diet for the mother who was a vegetarian.

The understanding of vitamin and mineral uptake with a vegan diet needs to be understand at the level of a dietician or guided by a dietician to ensure all of the food requirements are met.

Most omnivores know the basics of what to include in a daily menu. For example, how many dairy serves, what size of protein , veges , whole grains and the like.

We were all schooled in the food pyramid growing up. Even if the pyramid is being revised in modern times the principles are there.

How sound is the knowlege sharing of the vegan diet requirements for an adult compared to a child’s requirement.

What is the resource that is reliable and meets the health standards. Those of the things that concern GP’s when people opt for alternatives. If there is a complete diet being given in whatever form that ticks the boxes. If the child is a fussy eater and only offered a vegan diet or any diet then supplements maybe needed. Does the level of iron and iodine levels in vegetarians monitored in children.

The biggest thing for me is the easily accessible amino acids that are essential for the brain and general body function is found in meat proteins. Which I have stated often.

Being a vegetarian is okay but being able to monitor the level of key development building blocks should be monitored to ensure the child’s needs are being met is reasonable.

If for example , the bulk of children whom are raised as vegan are tested to have the requirement for vitamin supplements then that could evidence the vegan diet is not adequate for children.

That would support vegan diets not being an option for children during certain age groups, for another example.

I imagine it difficult to tell a teenager not to be vegan or vegetarian should they choose that lifestyle for example.

roughbarked said:

You know it is all full of shit. The vast majority of Italians I know eat far more vegetarian meals than meat. In fact the Italians are far more accepting of vegetarians than those of English descent. That you are what you eat may have a lot to do with the fact that those who are carnivores and I do mean those who are repelled by the sight of geen stuff on their plate, are the very ones who think it is a crime not to give your children meat at every meal. To go even further, the ones who are defensive in that they actually believe that any vegetarian is attempting to tell the meat eaters that they are in the wrong simply by denying to eat meat. There is no denying that there is nutrition in animal products but it can be denied that one will suffer from not eating any.

As for raising children, it is a wrong thing to suggest that all parents would starve their children because of their beliefs. Parenting is an intrinsic thing and though some are insensitive to their own nature, the vast majority are not. People who are childless may be exused for being unaware of this part of their nature if only because they were smart enough never to have inflicted themselves on the growth and development of the relationship between parent and chilld.

Our children constantly were recipient of high distinctions in science and maths, our son was head hunted the moment he finished school. They both topped the state in science and maths. They were never aggressive bullying types but both achieved the positions of and performed well in people management. They are both healthy sceptics of religions and cranks. They love their parents and family, are artistic and musical and are currently being very good parents themselves.

It is nonsense to suggest that they ever could have been otherwise.

Vegan is more restrictive though. Most GP’s would want all of the basics included into the diet that are required for child development and growth. I can tell you a couple trying to have a baby were advised by their practitioner to include some fish and chicken in the diet for the mother who was a vegetarian.

The understanding of vitamin and mineral uptake with a vegan diet needs to be understand at the level of a dietician or guided by a dietician to ensure all of the food requirements are met.

Most omnivores know the basics of what to include in a daily menu. For example, how many dairy serves, what size of protein , veges , whole grains and the like.

We were all schooled in the food pyramid growing up. Even if the pyramid is being revised in modern times the principles are there.

How sound is the knowlege sharing of the vegan diet requirements for an adult compared to a child’s requirement.

What is the resource that is reliable and meets the health standards. Those of the things that concern GP’s when people opt for alternatives. If there is a complete diet being given in whatever form that ticks the boxes. If the child is a fussy eater and only offered a vegan diet or any diet then supplements maybe needed. Does the level of iron and iodine levels in vegetarians monitored in children.

The biggest thing for me is the easily accessible amino acids that are essential for the brain and general body function is found in meat proteins. Which I have stated often.

Being a vegetarian is okay but being able to monitor the level of key development building blocks should be monitored to ensure the child’s needs are being met is reasonable.

If for example , the bulk of children whom are raised as vegan are tested to have the requirement for vitamin supplements then that could evidence the vegan diet is not adequate for children.

That would support vegan diets not being an option for children during certain age groups, for another example.

I imagine it difficult to tell a teenager not to be vegan or vegetarian should they choose that lifestyle for example.

Review paper on vegetarian/vegan dietary effects on adults:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/

I’ll search for anything about children in PubMed etc.

For me , there is also some level of common sense to providing foods that cover the dietary requirements and are the simplest to uptake and accessible by the body to use for the necessary developmental needs (with the exceptions of food in tolerances and allergies).

A good example is the amount of spinach required to eat to match the daily requirement of iron is not practicably consumable because the serve size would not be realistic for most people. Comparatively have a palm size of protein like beef, chicken or fish would be easier to manage for most people and allow options of other dietary needs as well to placed with the food choice.

monkey skipper said:

Vegan is more restrictive though. Most GP’s would want all of the basics included into the diet that are required for child development and growth. I can tell you a couple trying to have a baby were advised by their practitioner to include some fish and chicken in the diet for the mother who was a vegetarian.

The understanding of vitamin and mineral uptake with a vegan diet needs to be understand at the level of a dietician or guided by a dietician to ensure all of the food requirements are met.

Most omnivores know the basics of what to include in a daily menu. For example, how many dairy serves, what size of protein , veges , whole grains and the like.

We were all schooled in the food pyramid growing up. Even if the pyramid is being revised in modern times the principles are there.

How sound is the knowlege sharing of the vegan diet requirements for an adult compared to a child’s requirement.

What is the resource that is reliable and meets the health standards. Those of the things that concern GP’s when people opt for alternatives. If there is a complete diet being given in whatever form that ticks the boxes. If the child is a fussy eater and only offered a vegan diet or any diet then supplements maybe needed. Does the level of iron and iodine levels in vegetarians monitored in children.

The biggest thing for me is the easily accessible amino acids that are essential for the brain and general body function is found in meat proteins. Which I have stated often.

Being a vegetarian is okay but being able to monitor the level of key development building blocks should be monitored to ensure the child’s needs are being met is reasonable.

If for example , the bulk of children whom are raised as vegan are tested to have the requirement for vitamin supplements then that could evidence the vegan diet is not adequate for children.

That would support vegan diets not being an option for children during certain age groups, for another example.

I imagine it difficult to tell a teenager not to be vegan or vegetarian should they choose that lifestyle for example.

As I said, parents who care, do.

monkey skipper said:

I imagine it difficult to tell a teenager not to be vegan or vegetarian should they choose that lifestyle for example.

Both my children went off to their own world as soon as they finished their HSC. One to a cadetship and the other to university campus. They both survived well, didn’t drop out and achieved positions of merit. It wasn’t as easy for them in some ways but in all the others was better.

monkey skipper said:

The biggest thing for me is the easily accessible amino acids that are essential for the brain and general body function is found in meat proteins.

This ^

From my late teens to early 30s I did vegetarianism, but ate some meat whilst pregnant both times. Both sons were mainly vego, but I monitored their diets carefully. They were able to eat whatever was served at kids’ bday parties (much to the horror of their father).

Veganism is even more difficult. I would not put a child on a vegan diet.

kii said:

monkey skipper said:

The biggest thing for me is the easily accessible amino acids that are essential for the brain and general body function is found in meat proteins.

This ^

From my late teens to early 30s I did vegetarianism, but ate some meat whilst pregnant both times. Both sons were mainly vego, but I monitored their diets carefully. They were able to eat whatever was served at kids’ bday parties (much to the horror of their father).

Veganism is even more difficult. I would not put a child on a vegan diet.

We weren’t totally what could be described as vegan. Though often as not we were.

monkey skipper said:

For me , there is also some level of common sense to providing foods that cover the dietary requirements and are the simplest to uptake and accessible by the body to use for the necessary developmental needs (with the exceptions of food in tolerances and allergies).

A good example is the amount of spinach required to eat to match the daily requirement of iron is not practicably consumable because the serve size would not be realistic for most people. Comparatively have a palm size of protein like beef, chicken or fish would be easier to manage for most people and allow options of other dietary needs as well to placed with the food choice.

Some people don’t get good nutritional support from a vegan diet. For example, Toni Collette was a vegan for ethical reasons but couldn’t sustain the diet and became very anaemic.

I also think there’s more than nutrition benefits to having a wide variety of foods from a baby. They learn to like a wide range of flavours and textures as well as form necessary gut flora which may be missing if they miss animal products in their diet through childhood.

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

Vegan is more restrictive though. Most GP’s would want all of the basics included into the diet that are required for child development and growth. I can tell you a couple trying to have a baby were advised by their practitioner to include some fish and chicken in the diet for the mother who was a vegetarian.

The understanding of vitamin and mineral uptake with a vegan diet needs to be understand at the level of a dietician or guided by a dietician to ensure all of the food requirements are met.

Most omnivores know the basics of what to include in a daily menu. For example, how many dairy serves, what size of protein , veges , whole grains and the like.

We were all schooled in the food pyramid growing up. Even if the pyramid is being revised in modern times the principles are there.

How sound is the knowlege sharing of the vegan diet requirements for an adult compared to a child’s requirement.

What is the resource that is reliable and meets the health standards. Those of the things that concern GP’s when people opt for alternatives. If there is a complete diet being given in whatever form that ticks the boxes. If the child is a fussy eater and only offered a vegan diet or any diet then supplements maybe needed. Does the level of iron and iodine levels in vegetarians monitored in children.

The biggest thing for me is the easily accessible amino acids that are essential for the brain and general body function is found in meat proteins. Which I have stated often.

Being a vegetarian is okay but being able to monitor the level of key development building blocks should be monitored to ensure the child’s needs are being met is reasonable.

If for example , the bulk of children whom are raised as vegan are tested to have the requirement for vitamin supplements then that could evidence the vegan diet is not adequate for children.

That would support vegan diets not being an option for children during certain age groups, for another example.

I imagine it difficult to tell a teenager not to be vegan or vegetarian should they choose that lifestyle for example.

As I said, parents who care, do.

People can care and be misinformed by others. That is why the information needs to be standardized and general knowledge for the community as a whole.

The breastfeeding mother whom took the advice of the Naturopath cared as she sought advice. The advice was dangerous.

The information needs to be more centralized and be provided through goverment resource fact sheet that are scientifically accepted to be the best current advice and standards on dietary requirements

monkey skipper said:

For me , there is also some level of common sense to providing foods that cover the dietary requirements and are the simplest to uptake and accessible by the body to use for the necessary developmental needs (with the exceptions of food in tolerances and allergies).

A good example is the amount of spinach required to eat to match the daily requirement of iron is not practicably consumable because the serve size would not be realistic for most people. Comparatively have a palm size of protein like beef, chicken or fish would be easier to manage for most people and allow options of other dietary needs as well to placed with the food choice.

Who could try to consider getting their iron from only spinach? This is nutter science.

roughbarked said:

kii said:

monkey skipper said:

The biggest thing for me is the easily accessible amino acids that are essential for the brain and general body function is found in meat proteins.

This ^

From my late teens to early 30s I did vegetarianism, but ate some meat whilst pregnant both times. Both sons were mainly vego, but I monitored their diets carefully. They were able to eat whatever was served at kids’ bday parties (much to the horror of their father).

Veganism is even more difficult. I would not put a child on a vegan diet.

We weren’t totally what could be described as vegan. Though often as not we were.

Um.. the OP is for Vegan. Vegans don’t usually eat any food or food products that are sourced from animals. Therefore no eggs, no milk , no cheese and no yoghurt.

Divine Angel said:

monkey skipper said:

For me , there is also some level of common sense to providing foods that cover the dietary requirements and are the simplest to uptake and accessible by the body to use for the necessary developmental needs (with the exceptions of food in tolerances and allergies).

A good example is the amount of spinach required to eat to match the daily requirement of iron is not practicably consumable because the serve size would not be realistic for most people. Comparatively have a palm size of protein like beef, chicken or fish would be easier to manage for most people and allow options of other dietary needs as well to placed with the food choice.

Some people don’t get good nutritional support from a vegan diet. For example, Toni Collette was a vegan for ethical reasons but couldn’t sustain the diet and became very anaemic.

I also think there’s more than nutrition benefits to having a wide variety of foods from a baby. They learn to like a wide range of flavours and textures as well as form necessary gut flora which may be missing if they miss animal products in their diet through childhood.

The point clearly is in the fact that adhering to a word, won’t feed you.

Here you go. You need to supplement for the missing vitamins in children or they don’t grow properly:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2528709/

It’s a reasonably long paper. There are links to further references if you want them.

Divine Angel said:

monkey skipper said:

For me , there is also some level of common sense to providing foods that cover the dietary requirements and are the simplest to uptake and accessible by the body to use for the necessary developmental needs (with the exceptions of food in tolerances and allergies).

A good example is the amount of spinach required to eat to match the daily requirement of iron is not practicably consumable because the serve size would not be realistic for most people. Comparatively have a palm size of protein like beef, chicken or fish would be easier to manage for most people and allow options of other dietary needs as well to placed with the food choice.

Some people don’t get good nutritional support from a vegan diet. For example, Toni Collette was a vegan for ethical reasons but couldn’t sustain the diet and became very anaemic.

I also think there’s more than nutrition benefits to having a wide variety of foods from a baby. They learn to like a wide range of flavours and textures as well as form necessary gut flora which may be missing if they miss animal products in their diet through childhood.

Being anaemic as an adult is problematic bu resolvable. Being anaemic as a babe in utero and from birth to adolescent will directly affect the brain development as well.

buffy said:

Here you go. You need to supplement for the missing vitamins in children or they don’t grow properly:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2528709/

It’s a reasonably long paper. There are links to further references if you want them.

pfffft what have scientists ever done for us???

monkey skipper said:

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

Vegan is more restrictive though. Most GP’s would want all of the basics included into the diet that are required for child development and growth. I can tell you a couple trying to have a baby were advised by their practitioner to include some fish and chicken in the diet for the mother who was a vegetarian.

The understanding of vitamin and mineral uptake with a vegan diet needs to be understand at the level of a dietician or guided by a dietician to ensure all of the food requirements are met.

Most omnivores know the basics of what to include in a daily menu. For example, how many dairy serves, what size of protein , veges , whole grains and the like.

We were all schooled in the food pyramid growing up. Even if the pyramid is being revised in modern times the principles are there.

How sound is the knowlege sharing of the vegan diet requirements for an adult compared to a child’s requirement.

What is the resource that is reliable and meets the health standards. Those of the things that concern GP’s when people opt for alternatives. If there is a complete diet being given in whatever form that ticks the boxes. If the child is a fussy eater and only offered a vegan diet or any diet then supplements maybe needed. Does the level of iron and iodine levels in vegetarians monitored in children.

The biggest thing for me is the easily accessible amino acids that are essential for the brain and general body function is found in meat proteins. Which I have stated often.

Being a vegetarian is okay but being able to monitor the level of key development building blocks should be monitored to ensure the child’s needs are being met is reasonable.

If for example , the bulk of children whom are raised as vegan are tested to have the requirement for vitamin supplements then that could evidence the vegan diet is not adequate for children.

That would support vegan diets not being an option for children during certain age groups, for another example.

I imagine it difficult to tell a teenager not to be vegan or vegetarian should they choose that lifestyle for example.

As I said, parents who care, do.

People can care and be misinformed by others. That is why the information needs to be standardized and general knowledge for the community as a whole.

The breastfeeding mother whom took the advice of the Naturopath cared as she sought advice. The advice was dangerous.

The information needs to be more centralized and be provided through goverment resource fact sheet that are scientifically accepted to be the best current advice and standards on dietary requirements

Our children weren’t christened or inducted to any religion but they were vaccinated and their health was carefully and scientifically monitored. As was their education.

monkey skipper said:

Um.. the OP is for Vegan. Vegans don’t usually eat any food or food products that are sourced from animals. Therefore no eggs, no milk , no cheese and no yoghurt.

You aren’t telling me anythhing new. I’m simply railing against the attacks on people who choose to either eat no meat or no fish or if the case may be, no dairy or eggs.

buffy said:

Here you go. You need to supplement for the missing vitamins in children or they don’t grow properly:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2528709/

It’s a reasonably long paper. There are links to further references if you want them.

Have been there and done all of that.

ChrispenEvan said:

pfffft what have scientists ever done for us???

Quite a lot actually. Including a whole lot about how meat doesn’t need to be consumed at every meal and that the intake of foods of vegetable origin should essentially make up the majority of the diet.

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

Um.. the OP is for Vegan. Vegans don’t usually eat any food or food products that are sourced from animals. Therefore no eggs, no milk , no cheese and no yoghurt.

You aren’t telling me anythhing new. I’m simply railing against the attacks on people who choose to either eat no meat or no fish or if the case may be, no dairy or eggs.

You are speaking about what you did which is not especially broad enough.

monkey skipper said:

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

Um.. the OP is for Vegan. Vegans don’t usually eat any food or food products that are sourced from animals. Therefore no eggs, no milk , no cheese and no yoghurt.

You aren’t telling me anythhing new. I’m simply railing against the attacks on people who choose to either eat no meat or no fish or if the case may be, no dairy or eggs.

You are speaking about what you did which is not especially broad enough.

There was nothing special about us and I’m happy to say that it all worked out well in that our children grew to be well rounded and broad enough in their approach to life and raising children.

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

Um.. the OP is for Vegan. Vegans don’t usually eat any food or food products that are sourced from animals. Therefore no eggs, no milk , no cheese and no yoghurt.

You aren’t telling me anythhing new. I’m simply railing against the attacks on people who choose to either eat no meat or no fish or if the case may be, no dairy or eggs.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

pfffft what have scientists ever done for us???

Quite a lot actually. Including a whole lot about how meat doesn’t need to be consumed at every meal and that the intake of foods of vegetable origin should essentially make up the majority of the diet.

well, yes, it was rhetorically pythonesqueish. that’s why i go with science rather than anecdote.

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

roughbarked said:

You aren’t telling me anythhing new. I’m simply railing against the attacks on people who choose to either eat no meat or no fish or if the case may be, no dairy or eggs.

You are speaking about what you did which is not especially broad enough.

There was nothing special about us and I’m happy to say that it all worked out well in that our children grew to be well rounded and broad enough in their approach to life and raising children.

That is social development not nutritional development.

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

Um.. the OP is for Vegan. Vegans don’t usually eat any food or food products that are sourced from animals. Therefore no eggs, no milk , no cheese and no yoghurt.

You aren’t telling me anythhing new. I’m simply railing against the attacks on people who choose to either eat no meat or no fish or if the case may be, no dairy or eggs.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Probably. ;) It just gets on my goat a bit on occasion.

A vegan goat?

Divine Angel said:

A vegan goat?

monkey skipper said:

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

You are speaking about what you did which is not especially broad enough.

There was nothing special about us and I’m happy to say that it all worked out well in that our children grew to be well rounded and broad enough in their approach to life and raising children.

That is social development not nutritional development.

Of course. It is however what should be in the OP title. The retraction of the child’s development from the influence of society by extremism.

Divine Angel said:

A vegan goat?

What a surprise.

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

You aren’t telling me anythhing new. I’m simply railing against the attacks on people who choose to either eat no meat or no fish or if the case may be, no dairy or eggs.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Probably. ;) It just gets on my goat a bit on occasion.

Why ? In the sector of childcare supporting the notion of diversity is an everyday thing the exceptions are when the diversity is not inline with child safety. This is okay to discern what can be accommodated and what should be rejected and educated to reject.

For example, if a vegan diet is harmful to child development and raising awareness helps curb that decision then that is a good thing.

If being vegan is good and meets the required dietary needs easily then there is no problem.

Pretty simple stuff. Don’t confuse right for choice with an unreasonable risk of harm based on an emotional stand point.

Post the nutritional facts and guides to providing completes diets would be more helpful.

monkey skipper said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Probably. ;) It just gets on my goat a bit on occasion.

Why ? In the sector of childcare supporting the notion of diversity is an everyday thing the exceptions are when the diversity is not inline with child safety. This is okay to discern what can be accommodated and what should be rejected and educated to reject.

For example, if a vegan diet is harmful to child development and raising awareness helps curb that decision then that is a good thing.

If being vegan is good and meets the required dietary needs easily then there is no problem.

Pretty simple stuff. Don’t confuse right for choice with an unreasonable risk of harm based on an emotional stand point.

Post the nutritional facts and guides to providing completes diets would be more helpful.

I’m not and never did deny the science. I’m not and we were both never of the kind that joined cults.

What gets on my goat are those who accused us of all of the sorts of things that are blatant in the whole op.

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

roughbarked said:

Probably. ;) It just gets on my goat a bit on occasion.

Why ? In the sector of childcare supporting the notion of diversity is an everyday thing the exceptions are when the diversity is not inline with child safety. This is okay to discern what can be accommodated and what should be rejected and educated to reject.

For example, if a vegan diet is harmful to child development and raising awareness helps curb that decision then that is a good thing.

If being vegan is good and meets the required dietary needs easily then there is no problem.

Pretty simple stuff. Don’t confuse right for choice with an unreasonable risk of harm based on an emotional stand point.

Post the nutritional facts and guides to providing completes diets would be more helpful.

I’m not and never did deny the science. I’m not and we were both never of the kind that joined cults.

What gets on my goat are those who accused us of all of the sorts of things that are blatant in the whole op.

Even so the important thing is beyond the nutrition matter because of the potential health risks. People will takes risks as humans do. Being informed about those risks is important.

monkey skipper said:

Even so the important thing is beyond the nutrition matter because of the potential health risks. People will takes risks as humans do. Being informed about those risks is important.

Agree.

mmmm … goat

I think we can all agree that vegans are worse than hitler, and move on….

dv said:

mmmm … goat

People who eat vegans scare me. ;) Have to keep an eye on them.

stumpy_seahorse said:

I think we can all agree that vegans are worse than hitler, and move on….

You had to godwin it. ;)

stumpy_seahorse said:

I think we can all agree that vegans are worse than hitler, and move on….

Actually, the meat eaters who eat up all the vegetarian burgers at a BBQ are worse than Hitler.

kii said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

I think we can all agree that vegans are worse than hitler, and move on….

Actually, the meat eaters who eat up all the vegetarian burgers at a BBQ are worse than Hitler.

It is weird that.

roughbarked said:

kii said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

I think we can all agree that vegans are worse than hitler, and move on….

Actually, the meat eaters who eat up all the vegetarian burgers at a BBQ are worse than Hitler.

It is weird that.

Hitler was a vegetarian and something of an animal lover.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

kii said:

Actually, the meat eaters who eat up all the vegetarian burgers at a BBQ are worse than Hitler.

It is weird that.

Hitler was a vegetarian and something of an animal lover.

and a veteran Aryan, HA HA HA HA HA, haaa

dv said:

roughbarked said:

kii said:

Actually, the meat eaters who eat up all the vegetarian burgers at a BBQ are worse than Hitler.

It is weird that.

Hitler was a vegetarian and something of an animal lover.

Into German Sheperds and Braun but he wasn’t strictly describable as the rest of the sentence.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

kii said:

Actually, the meat eaters who eat up all the vegetarian burgers at a BBQ are worse than Hitler.

It is weird that.

Hitler was a vegetarian and something of an animal lover.

Eva was one foxy lady.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

kii said:

Actually, the meat eaters who eat up all the vegetarian burgers at a BBQ are worse than Hitler.

It is weird that.

Hitler was a vegetarian and something of an animal lover.

yeah, but he was mad….oh hang on….

The famous German nutritionist and author, Gunter Hatherer, said that early man spent a good deal of their time searching for food, seasonal wild berries, roots etc but their main source of protein was the flesh of other animals that they killed.
It wasn’t until the started farming crops that they had time to develop.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

kii said:

Actually, the meat eaters who eat up all the vegetarian burgers at a BBQ are worse than Hitler.

It is weird that.

Hitler was a vegetarian and something of an animal lover.

True, but that still doesn’t excuse those meat eaters consuming ALL the veggie burgers before the vegos could get one!

Peak Warming Man said:

The famous German nutritionist and author, Gunter Hatherer, said that early man spent a good deal of their time searching for food, seasonal wild berries, roots etc but their main source of protein was the flesh of other animals that they killed.
It wasn’t until the started farming crops that they had time to develop a civilisation.

fixed.

kii said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

It is weird that.

Hitler was a vegetarian and something of an animal lover.

True, but that still doesn’t excuse those meat eaters consuming ALL the veggie burgers before the vegos could get one!

No. It doesn’t. There’s also those who buy their own meat lovers pizza but eat all of your vego one because it tastes like something their body really needed more than yours.

roughbarked said:

kii said:

dv said:

Hitler was a vegetarian and something of an animal lover.

True, but that still doesn’t excuse those meat eaters consuming ALL the veggie burgers before the vegos could get one!

No. It doesn’t. There’s also those who buy their own meat lovers pizza but eat all of your vego one because it tastes like something their body really needed more than yours.

Just proves that carnivores have greater survival potential.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

kii said:

True, but that still doesn’t excuse those meat eaters consuming ALL the veggie burgers before the vegos could get one!

No. It doesn’t. There’s also those who buy their own meat lovers pizza but eat all of your vego one because it tastes like something their body really needed more than yours.

Just proves that carnivores have greater survival potential.

:) basically bully their way through life.

ChrispenEvan said:

!https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/14086298_1142085862523267_7711392198501899315_o.jpg

*snort *

With that I am going to make some dinner for us humans.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

No. It doesn’t. There’s also those who buy their own meat lovers pizza but eat all of your vego one because it tastes like something their body really needed more than yours.

Just proves that carnivores have greater survival potential.

:) basically bully their way through life.

Faster to the table than the energy deficient vegans.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Just proves that carnivores have greater survival potential.

:) basically bully their way through life.

Faster to the table than the energy deficient vegans.

More that the vegans have already thought about what they eat.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Just proves that carnivores have greater survival potential.

:) basically bully their way through life.

Faster to the table than the energy deficient vegans.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

:) basically bully their way through life.

Faster to the table than the energy deficient vegans.

More that the vegans have already thought about what they eat.

~ More that the vegans have already thought about what they would eat if they got to the table in time.~ fixed.

We are neither vegetarian, or carnivorous, but omnivorous. We have evolved to eat anything that is edible, all we have to do is either find or catch it. This is a considerable evolutionary advantage and had our ancestors lived entirely on vegetables or meat, we probably would have gone extinct.

One day we might have computer-brain interfaces that allow us to “eat” all kind of imaginary foods in VR, while actually experiencing the sensation of tasting it and becoming full etc.

While in real life we’d just eat cheaply produced minimalist diets.

Bubblecar said:

One day we might have computer-brain interfaces that allow us to “eat” all kind of imaginary foods in VR, while actually experiencing the sensation of tasting it and becoming full etc.

While in real life we’d just eat cheaply produced minimalist diets.

Is this your dream of the ultimate diet car? Although I doubt you could resist the taste of real food and late night suppers.

PermeateFree said:

Bubblecar said:

One day we might have computer-brain interfaces that allow us to “eat” all kind of imaginary foods in VR, while actually experiencing the sensation of tasting it and becoming full etc.

While in real life we’d just eat cheaply produced minimalist diets.

Is this your dream of the ultimate diet car? Although I doubt you could resist the taste of real food and late night suppers.

And booze, and remember you should never eat with your meals!

Being a vegan is like being religious its your choice and until your children are old enough to choose for themselves your right to choose for them, but once you get all preachy and in your face about it to others, then they are within their own rights to tell you to shut up and mind your own business.