On Monday, 21 November 2016, Melbourne experienced a very rare phenomenon known as “thunderstorm asthma”, which overwhelmed the ambulance system and apparently led to a number of deaths. According to Wikipedia:

“Thunderstorm asthma is the triggering of an asthma attack by environmental conditions directly caused by a local thunderstorm. During a thunderstorm, pollen grains can absorb moisture and then burst into much smaller fragments with these fragments being easily dispersed by wind. While larger pollen grains are usually filtered by the nose, the smaller pollen fragments are able to pass through and enter the lungs, triggering the asthma attack.”

One thing I don’t get is why is it so rare? What was it about that particular thunderstorm that doesn’t occur with other thunderstorms that caused the condition?

KJW said:

On Monday, 21 November 2016, Melbourne experienced a very rare phenomenon known as “thunderstorm asthma”, which overwhelmed the ambulance system and apparently led to a number of deaths. According to Wikipedia:

“Thunderstorm asthma is the triggering of an asthma attack by environmental conditions directly caused by a local thunderstorm. During a thunderstorm, pollen grains can absorb moisture and then burst into much smaller fragments with these fragments being easily dispersed by wind. While larger pollen grains are usually filtered by the nose, the smaller pollen fragments are able to pass through and enter the lungs, triggering the asthma attack.”

One thing I don’t get is why is it so rare? What was it about that particular thunderstorm that doesn’t occur with other thunderstorms that caused the condition?

It wouldn’t surprise me if the heat during the day had something to do with it. It was quite hot that day, the pollen count was already high, and then the rain hit.

KJW said:

On Monday, 21 November 2016, Melbourne experienced a very rare phenomenon known as “thunderstorm asthma”, which overwhelmed the ambulance system and apparently led to a number of deaths. According to Wikipedia:

“Thunderstorm asthma is the triggering of an asthma attack by environmental conditions directly caused by a local thunderstorm. During a thunderstorm, pollen grains can absorb moisture and then burst into much smaller fragments with these fragments being easily dispersed by wind. While larger pollen grains are usually filtered by the nose, the smaller pollen fragments are able to pass through and enter the lungs, triggering the asthma attack.”

One thing I don’t get is why is it so rare? What was it about that particular thunderstorm that doesn’t occur with other thunderstorms that caused the condition?

time of year and the amount of pollen around at that time

A mostly dry storm that coincided with peak pollen from increased growth from a wet spring?

KJW said:

On Monday, 21 November 2016, Melbourne experienced a very rare phenomenon known as “thunderstorm asthma”, which overwhelmed the ambulance system and apparently led to a number of deaths. According to Wikipedia:

“Thunderstorm asthma is the triggering of an asthma attack by environmental conditions directly caused by a local thunderstorm. During a thunderstorm, pollen grains can absorb moisture and then burst into much smaller fragments with these fragments being easily dispersed by wind. While larger pollen grains are usually filtered by the nose, the smaller pollen fragments are able to pass through and enter the lungs, triggering the asthma attack.”

One thing I don’t get is why is it so rare? What was it about that particular thunderstorm that doesn’t occur with other thunderstorms that caused the condition?

Yeah I don’t get it either.

But that lot of storms came through across from Mildura, sort of diagonally across the state. It went North of us. And we had the North wind in the morning first. So as it crossed the cropping land before it got to Melbourne, was there a lot of problems in the country towns too? I haven’t heard of anything here locally.

perhaps the rain was full of bacteria, they can seed clouds apparently

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollen

Pollen is a fine to coarse powdery substance comprising pollen grains which are male microgametophytes of seed plants, which produce male gametes (sperm cells). Pollen grains have a hard coat made of sporopollenin that protects the gametophytes during the process of their movement from the stamens to the pistil of flowering plants or from the male cone to the female cone of coniferous plants. If pollen lands on a compatible pistil or female cone, it germinates, producing a pollen tube that transfers the sperm to the ovule containing the female gametophyte. Individual pollen grains are small enough to require magnification to see detail. The study of pollen is called palynology and is highly useful in paleoecology, paleontology, archaeology, and forensics.

Pollen in plants is used for transferring haploid male genetic material from the anther of a single flower to the stigma of another in cross-pollination. In a case of self-pollination, this process takes place from the anther of a flower to the stigma of the same flower.

Allergy to pollen

Nasal allergy to pollen is called pollinosis, and allergy specifically to grass pollen is called hay fever. Generally, pollens that cause allergies are those of anemophilous plants (pollen is dispersed by air currents.) Such plants produce large quantities of lightweight pollen (because wind dispersal is random and the likelihood of one pollen grain landing on another flower is small), which can be carried for great distances and are easily inhaled, bringing it into contact with the sensitive nasal passages.

In the US, people often mistakenly blame the conspicuous goldenrod flower for allergies. Since this plant is entomophilous (its pollen is dispersed by animals), its heavy, sticky pollen does not become independently airborne. Most late summer and fall pollen allergies are probably caused by ragweed, a widespread anemophilous plant.

Arizona was once regarded as a haven for people with pollen allergies, although several ragweed species grow in the desert. However, as suburbs grew and people began establishing irrigated lawns and gardens, more irritating species of ragweed gained a foothold and Arizona lost its claim of freedom from hay fever.

Anemophilous spring blooming plants such as oak, birch, hickory, pecan, and early summer grasses may also induce pollen allergies. Most cultivated plants with showy flowers are entomophilous and do not cause pollen allergies.

The number of people in the United States affected by hay fever is between 20 and 40 million, and such allergy has proven to be the most frequent allergic response in the nation. There are certain evidential suggestions pointing out hay fever and similar allergies to be of hereditary origin. Individuals who suffer from eczema or are asthmatic tend to be more susceptible to developing long-term hay fever.

In Denmark, decades of rising temperatures cause pollen to appear earlier and in greater numbers, as well as introduction of new species such as ragweed.

The most efficient way to handle a pollen allergy is by preventing contact with the material. Individuals carrying the ailment may at first believe that they have a simple summer cold, but hay fever becomes more evident when the apparent cold does not disappear. The confirmation of hay fever can be obtained after examination by a general physician.

What is hard to understand about it..being spring. That the pastures are all almost ready if not ready for making hay. That the pollen count is high because..the pollen count is high at this time of year. I did hear it mumbled on the tv that the biggest contributor was rye grass. Paddock grasses. Lots of paddocks out there.

KJW said:

One thing I don’t get is why is it so rare? What was it about that particular thunderstorm that doesn’t occur with other thunderstorms that caused the condition?

In this particular case the asthma attacks were caused by rye grass pollen — the count on that day was 102 (a count of 50 is considered high). When saturated with rain, rye pollen breaks into small pieces, which become easier to inhale and trigger an asthma attack (about 10% of Australians have asthma; about 80% of the asthma cases are caused by allergies, and rye grass pollen is particularly allergenic.

As to why the condition is so rare, I don’t know, but suspect that such a high rye pollen count coupled with thunderstorms are rare.

Pollen sensors are around

http://www.shinyei.co.jp/stc/eng/optical/main_poln.html

these sensors need more development to cover other plants and grasses

another one

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/131857/20160209/worlds-first-air-quality-sensor-can-detect-pm2-5-pollen-and-dust.htm

btm said:

KJW said:

One thing I don’t get is why is it so rare? What was it about that particular thunderstorm that doesn’t occur with other thunderstorms that caused the condition?

In this particular case the asthma attacks were caused by rye grass pollen — the count on that day was 102 (a count of 50 is considered high). When saturated with rain, rye pollen breaks into small pieces, which become easier to inhale and trigger an asthma attack (about 10% of Australians have asthma; about 80% of the asthma cases are caused by allergies, and rye grass pollen is particularly allergenic.

As to why the condition is so rare, I don’t know, but suspect that such a high rye pollen count coupled with thunderstorms

That may be why. All around here is grain and hay land but we didn’t get much rain but lots of wind. Maybe just enough rain to release pollen but not enough to suppress it and the wind to blow it east and toward Melbourne.

Because the day was so unexpectedly hot, both Mrs m and I were itching like mad that evening. Sweat exacerbates the effects of skin allergens.

I should remark that I don’t live in Melbourne and therefore did not experience the storm. I have no personal sense of the conditions that led to the phenomenon.

mollwollfumble said:

Because the day was so unexpectedly hot, both Mrs m and I were itching like mad that evening. Sweat exacerbates the effects of skin allergens.

Do you think it might have been because the heat was in spring rather than summer?

There seems to have been a general rise in allergies for some time now.

KJW said:

mollwollfumble said:

Because the day was so unexpectedly hot, both Mrs m and I were itching like mad that evening. Sweat exacerbates the effects of skin allergens.

Do you think it might have been because the heat was in spring rather than summer?

Yes for us, in the sense that it was the first hot day in Melbourne since midwinter.

Had be had the foresight to take precautions by drinking plenty of water, using air conditioning, staying in the shade, wearing midsummer clothing, etc. we wouldn’t have had the problem.

btm said:

KJW said:

One thing I don’t get is why is it so rare? What was it about that particular thunderstorm that doesn’t occur with other thunderstorms that caused the condition?

In this particular case the asthma attacks were caused by rye grass pollen — the count on that day was 102 (a count of 50 is considered high). When saturated with rain, rye pollen breaks into small pieces, which become easier to inhale and trigger an asthma attack (about 10% of Australians have asthma; about 80% of the asthma cases are caused by allergies, and rye grass pollen is particularly allergenic.

As to why the condition is so rare, I don’t know, but suspect that such a high rye pollen count coupled with thunderstorms are rare.

not really.
It happens every year.
The whole thing.

KJW said:

mollwollfumble said:

Because the day was so unexpectedly hot, both Mrs m and I were itching like mad that evening. Sweat exacerbates the effects of skin allergens.

Do you think it might have been because the heat was in spring rather than summer?

No.

roughbarked said:

btm said:

KJW said:

One thing I don’t get is why is it so rare? What was it about that particular thunderstorm that doesn’t occur with other thunderstorms that caused the condition?

In this particular case the asthma attacks were caused by rye grass pollen — the count on that day was 102 (a count of 50 is considered high). When saturated with rain, rye pollen breaks into small pieces, which become easier to inhale and trigger an asthma attack (about 10% of Australians have asthma; about 80% of the asthma cases are caused by allergies, and rye grass pollen is particularly allergenic.

As to why the condition is so rare, I don’t know, but suspect that such a high rye pollen count coupled with thunderstorms are rare.

not really.
It happens every year.
The whole thing.

The hospital emergency admissions disagree.

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

btm said:

In this particular case the asthma attacks were caused by rye grass pollen — the count on that day was 102 (a count of 50 is considered high). When saturated with rain, rye pollen breaks into small pieces, which become easier to inhale and trigger an asthma attack (about 10% of Australians have asthma; about 80% of the asthma cases are caused by allergies, and rye grass pollen is particularly allergenic.

As to why the condition is so rare, I don’t know, but suspect that such a high rye pollen count coupled with thunderstorms are rare.

not really.
It happens every year.
The whole thing.

The hospital emergency admissions disagree.

The numbers were high. This is the rare bit. Everything else is the same.

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

not really.
It happens every year.
The whole thing.

The hospital emergency admissions disagree.

The numbers were high. This is the rare bit. Everything else is the same.

Well that was the bit that made it unprecedented, noteworthy and not the same.

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

not really.
It happens every year.
The whole thing.

The hospital emergency admissions disagree.

The numbers were high. This is the rare bit. Everything else is the same.

People forget things. Rye is there because we imported it to feed meat animals.
The heat is always there and the storms are too. The asthma is nothing new.

This year there was simply more rye than since the last time people remember. There are also morve people in Melbourne since the last time there was so much rye.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

The hospital emergency admissions disagree.

The numbers were high. This is the rare bit. Everything else is the same.

People forget things. Rye is there because we imported it to feed meat animals.
The heat is always there and the storms are too. The asthma is nothing new.

This year there was simply more rye than since the last time people remember. There are also morve people in Melbourne since the last time there was so much rye.

The point is this. That rye is a winter grass that ripens in spring like wheat does. This happens every year. The difference being that this was the first winter in what amounted to 3 or 4 decades (depending upon location) in south eastern Australia that had so much rain during the growing season for rye..

Alex and her family survived, so it can’t have been that bad.

I was reading that even people who don’t have asthma suffered breathing difficulties during the storm. That’s the scariest part.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-22/what-is-thunderstorm-asthma/8044920

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-22/what-is-thunderstorm-asthma/8044920

there ya go, read that, ryegrass, not much good for anything.

Apparently in November 2010 there was a severe occurrence in Melbourne.

“Melbourne is particularly a hotspot for this because when these pollens are being released, are picked up by northerly winds and all of the growth is in the northern parts of Vic, and the northerly winds pick them up and bring them into the metropolitan area where most of us are, and then you have the perfect model system for thunderstorm induced asthma,” said Associate Professor Suphioglu, the Head of Deakin’s NeuroAllergy Research Laboratory (NARLY).

I’ve seen Wagga, Canberra and London referenced as hotspots as well.

transition said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-22/what-is-thunderstorm-asthma/8044920

there ya go, read that, ryegrass, not much good for anything.

Allergy to ryegrass used to be the bane of my life when I was young. I think I’ve grown out of it since. So yes, I can believe that.

Is ryegrass edible? I think the seeds are edible.

mollwollfumble said:

transition said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-22/what-is-thunderstorm-asthma/8044920

there ya go, read that, ryegrass, not much good for anything.

Allergy to ryegrass used to be the bane of my life when I was young. I think I’ve grown out of it since. So yes, I can believe that.

Is ryegrass edible? I think the seeds are edible.

there is Italian rye grass seed, a perennial pasture plant, and then there is Rye corn, an annual cereal plant.

’Thunderstorm asthma’: Seven patients in intensive care, at least four dead

Thousands of people were affected by the condition on Monday, after heavy rain caused rye grass pollen to absorb moisture and burst, dispersing smaller particles that became trapped in people’s lungs.

More…

What sort of things could asthma suffers do to prevent this kind of health threat?

pay more attention to weather conditions around November ?

carry a pollen alarm sensor with them?

is pollen worse around November

or does it stretch over the year

CrazyNeutrino said:

’Thunderstorm asthma’: Seven patients in intensive care, at least four dead

Thousands of people were affected by the condition on Monday, after heavy rain caused rye grass pollen to absorb moisture and burst, dispersing smaller particles that became trapped in people’s lungs.

More…

What sort of things could asthma suffers do to prevent this kind of health threat?

pay more attention to weather conditions around November ?

carry a pollen alarm sensor with them?

is pollen worse around November

or does it stretch over the year

Carry a mask around designed for pollen sizes as well as the pollen sensor.

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

’Thunderstorm asthma’: Seven patients in intensive care, at least four dead

Thousands of people were affected by the condition on Monday, after heavy rain caused rye grass pollen to absorb moisture and burst, dispersing smaller particles that became trapped in people’s lungs.

More…

What sort of things could asthma suffers do to prevent this kind of health threat?

pay more attention to weather conditions around November ?

carry a pollen alarm sensor with them?

is pollen worse around November

or does it stretch over the year

Carry a mask around designed for pollen sizes as well as the pollen sensor.

perhaps a smartphone app that reads pollen sensors spread over the city

when pollen reaches unsafe levels, the app signals the threat and time to put on the mask, close windows and doors

Monday’s rye particle count of 102 was more than double what would be considered high on a normal day.

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

’Thunderstorm asthma’: Seven patients in intensive care, at least four dead

Thousands of people were affected by the condition on Monday, after heavy rain caused rye grass pollen to absorb moisture and burst, dispersing smaller particles that became trapped in people’s lungs.

More…

What sort of things could asthma suffers do to prevent this kind of health threat?

pay more attention to weather conditions around November ?

carry a pollen alarm sensor with them?

is pollen worse around November

or does it stretch over the year

Carry a mask around designed for pollen sizes as well as the pollen sensor.

perhaps a smartphone app that reads pollen sensors spread over the city

when pollen reaches unsafe levels, the app signals the threat and time to put on the mask, close windows and doors

Monday’s rye particle count of 102 was more than double what would be considered high on a normal day.

more pollen sensors spread over the suburbs and into country areas

apps that read the information could track the movement of pollen providing an accurate map of the pollens movement

that could provide a forewarning as well

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Carry a mask around designed for pollen sizes as well as the pollen sensor.

perhaps a smartphone app that reads pollen sensors spread over the city

when pollen reaches unsafe levels, the app signals the threat and time to put on the mask, close windows and doors

Monday’s rye particle count of 102 was more than double what would be considered high on a normal day.

more pollen sensors spread over the suburbs and into country areas

apps that read the information could track the movement of pollen providing an accurate map of the pollens movement

that could provide a forewarning as well

it could be tuned to dust storms as well

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

perhaps a smartphone app that reads pollen sensors spread over the city

when pollen reaches unsafe levels, the app signals the threat and time to put on the mask, close windows and doors

Monday’s rye particle count of 102 was more than double what would be considered high on a normal day.

more pollen sensors spread over the suburbs and into country areas

apps that read the information could track the movement of pollen providing an accurate map of the pollens movement

that could provide a forewarning as well

it could be tuned to dust storms as well

Pollen allergy sensors are available

they just need to be plugged into the Internet of things

people could also place pollen sensors of their roof with a wifi connection

and allow permission to upload pollen information to a database

I sent a letter to the Victorian Minister for Health here it is with my name edited out

To Hon Jill Hennessy, Minister for Health.

Hello my name is Crazy Neutrino, I have an idea for preventing Thunderstorm Asthma however the idea needs to passed on to someone else, I am a visual artist, on a disability pension with depression, 56, single, living by myself in Government housing.

Monday’s rye particle count of 102 was more than double what would be considered high on a normal day.

The idea involves using pollen sensors plugged into the internet of things and an smartphone app that reads pollen particle levels.

Pollen sensors would be spread over Melbourne City, suburbs and country areas, when pollen reaches unsafe levels, the app signals the threat and time to put on a mask, close windows and doors, by placing pollen sensors spread over Victoria pollen movement could be tracked. It could be incorporated into BOM.

Smarphone Apps reading all the sensor information could track the movement of pollen would:

provide a forewarning
provide a map of the pollens movement
provide a map of dust storms movement

Pollen allergy sensors are available they just need to be plugged into the Internet of things

With an additional product, people could also place pollen sensors of their roof with a wifi connection, and allow permission to upload pollen information to a database

Regards
Crazy Neutrino

or you could eschew the ryegrass pastures. Either choose new pastures or stop eating meat raised on rye.

Talking to a friend today — er, yesterday — she said her 9-year-old daughter (who had croup when she was 6 months old, and consequently had breathing problems until she was 6) developed thunderstorm asthma on Tuesday; she wasn’t admitted to hospital, but is on Ventolin for a few days.

the 7 plagues of egypt

>>What is known is that grass pollen is usually too big to get into the lungs to cause asthma, and instead causes a reaction in the superficial respiratory systems of those with pollen sensitivity: a hay fever reaction such as a runny nose, sore throat and itchy eyes are more common.

But when a thunderstorm occurs, pollen which had settled during the day can be swept back into the air and the moisture in those winds combined with wind power causes the pollen to rupture into smaller pieces, between 0.5mm and 2.5mm in diameter. Those small fragments are then able to penetrate the superficial respiratory system and get into the lungs, triggering asthma and other serious respiratory responses.

and this..

>>“Plants use carbon dioxide in photosynthesis,” he said. “It’s like if you change your diet, there are changes in your body. So plants use carbon dioxide through photosynthesis, and if you change the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere then their growth conditions are changing.”

“A few smart scientists thought to put these highly allergenic plants into a glass house where we can control all the conditions, from the temperature to light, water and levels of carbon dioxide.”
What they found, he said, was increasing the amount of carbon dioxide led to a whole range of changes in the plants, including more pollen and more potent pollen.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/nov/27/thunderstorm-asthma-oure-talking-an-event-equivalent-to-a-terrorist-attack?CMP=soc_567

Thunderstorm asthma: Sixth person dies following outbreak, three remain critical
Updated 18 minutes ago

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-27/sixth-person-dies-from-thunderstorm-asthma-emergency/8061380