Sydney lockout laws ‘don’t make a lot of sense’, Amsterdam’s ‘night mayor’ says

“I think will not work because, probably, what the State Government wants is behavioural change, and you don’t get behavioural change from blaming it on the operators,” he said.

more….

In most cases alcohol lowers people emotional intelligence

so if they want behavioral change, then educating people how alcohol affects emotional intelligence would be a start.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Sydney lockout laws ‘don’t make a lot of sense’, Amsterdam’s ‘night mayor’ says

“I think will not work because, probably, what the State Government wants is behavioural change, and you don’t get behavioural change from blaming it on the operators,” he said.

more….

In most cases alcohol lowers people emotional intelligence

so if they want behavioral change, then educating people how alcohol affects emotional intelligence would be a start.

In most cases excessive alcohol drinking lowers people emotional intelligence

not one or two glasses

Emotional intelligence

the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one’s emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.

from
https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/emotional-intelligence

Emotional intelligence is the ability to identify and manage your own emotions and the emotions of others. It is generally said to include three skills:

1. Emotional awareness, including the ability to identify your own emotions and those of others;

2. The ability to harness emotions and apply them to tasks like thinking and problems solving;

3. The ability to manage emotions, including the ability to regulate your own emotions, and the ability to cheer up or calm down another person.

CrazyNeutrino said:

so if they want behavioral change, then educating people how alcohol affects emotional intelligence would be a start.

Good luck with that.

the article suggests nothing about emotional intelligence adaptations (which wouldn’t work anyway since excessive alcohol lowers inhibitions and anything learned wouldn’t apply to an alcohol fueled situation) the Amsterdam dude talks about dispersing the crowd through moving venues to many locations in the outer suburbs .

Arts said:

the article suggests nothing about emotional intelligence adaptations (which wouldn’t work anyway since excessive alcohol lowers inhibitions and anything learned wouldn’t apply to an alcohol fueled situation) the Amsterdam dude talks about dispersing the crowd through moving venues to many locations in the outer suburbs .

Which is just what has happened in Sydney with the local lockout laws.

Arts said:

the article suggests nothing about emotional intelligence adaptations (which wouldn’t work anyway since excessive alcohol lowers inhibitions and anything learned wouldn’t apply to an alcohol fueled situation) the Amsterdam dude talks about dispersing the crowd through moving venues to many locations in the outer suburbs .

heh, coz people would love a pub near their house…

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

the article suggests nothing about emotional intelligence adaptations (which wouldn’t work anyway since excessive alcohol lowers inhibitions and anything learned wouldn’t apply to an alcohol fueled situation) the Amsterdam dude talks about dispersing the crowd through moving venues to many locations in the outer suburbs .

Which is just what has happened in Sydney with the local lockout laws.

When we discussed these laws at uni – the casino has exemption so the crowd would then move to the casino placing everyone together – which, I guess, was easier to police though didn’t stop conflicts from happening.

Arts said:

the article suggests nothing about emotional intelligence adaptations (which wouldn’t work anyway since excessive alcohol lowers inhibitions and anything learned wouldn’t apply to an alcohol fueled situation) the Amsterdam dude talks about dispersing the crowd through moving venues to many locations in the outer suburbs .

>>>the article suggests nothing about emotional intelligence adaptations

that was my suggestion

>>>excessive alcohol lowers inhibitions

Yes and it lowers emotional intelligence

>>>anything learned wouldn’t apply to an alcohol fueled situation

Yes, things become chaotic and violent

I think one way to go would be for universities to study how alcohol affects peoples emotional intelligence

involving observation of nightclubs and laboratory testing

this would involve a hundred men and a hundred women who drink until there emotional intelligence drops

we need to know how that process works

what if people learn emotional control while drinking alcohol ?

what if people had two sessions on emotional control, the first one involving being taught emotional control with no alcohol

then the next session given alcohol while learning emotional control?

we need to start doing something

I’m a bit meh about lock out laws and don’t really understand the issue people seem to have with them..

I think some types and brands of alcohol cause more violence than other types of alcohol

this is one thing we need to test

Rum, vodka and whiskey come to mind

maybe certain personally types are more susceptible to alcohol and violence than others

what if Uni’s and the alcohol industry looked at lab testing different alcohols to minimize violent tendencies if that was found to be the case

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think some types and brands of alcohol cause more violence than other types of alcohol

this is one thing we need to test

Rum, vodka and whiskey come to mind

maybe certain personally types are more susceptible to alcohol and violence than others

what if Uni’s and the alcohol industry looked at lab testing different alcohols to minimize violent tendencies if that was found to be the case

It’s an issue that relates to the individual – that is all.

Most alcohol fuelled violence is in the home in DV situations so lockout laws won’t have much affect on that.
I imagine most of it comes down to the individuals in question and if you are a violent moron you’ll use any excuse to act that way, alcohol is just one catalyst.

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think some types and brands of alcohol cause more violence than other types of alcohol

this is one thing we need to test

Rum, vodka and whiskey come to mind

maybe certain personally types are more susceptible to alcohol and violence than others

what if Uni’s and the alcohol industry looked at lab testing different alcohols to minimize violent tendencies if that was found to be the case

not only personality types, but different body morphology processes alcohol differently, because of this – ‘solutions’ become difficult.

diddly-squat said:

I’m a bit meh about lock out laws and don’t really understand the issue people seem to have with them..

I don’t have a problem with them either, but then I am not a regular patron to bars and nightclubs, nor am I a business owner of these establishments

diddly-squat said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think some types and brands of alcohol cause more violence than other types of alcohol

this is one thing we need to test

Rum, vodka and whiskey come to mind

maybe certain personally types are more susceptible to alcohol and violence than others

what if Uni’s and the alcohol industry looked at lab testing different alcohols to minimize violent tendencies if that was found to be the case

It’s an issue that relates to the individual – that is all.

Yes it involves the individual

>>>that is all

no, it involves alcohol as well as education on emotional control

Maybe bouncers need some basic training in counseling dealing with alcohol affected people

we need to look at every angle

CrazyNeutrino said:

we need to look at every angle

You’re not the boss of me!

Arts said:

diddly-squat said:

I’m a bit meh about lock out laws and don’t really understand the issue people seem to have with them..

I don’t have a problem with them either, but then I am not a regular patron to bars and nightclubs, nor am I a business owner of these establishments

yeah… it would be pants for a business owner…

CrazyNeutrino said:

we need to look at every angle

I guess the irony of you pushing the same single angle is lost on you…

CrazyNeutrino said:

diddly-squat said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think some types and brands of alcohol cause more violence than other types of alcohol

this is one thing we need to test

Rum, vodka and whiskey come to mind

maybe certain personally types are more susceptible to alcohol and violence than others

what if Uni’s and the alcohol industry looked at lab testing different alcohols to minimize violent tendencies if that was found to be the case

It’s an issue that relates to the individual – that is all.

Yes it involves the individual

>>>that is all

no, it involves alcohol as well as education on emotional control

Maybe bouncers need some basic training in counseling dealing with alcohol affected people

we need to look at every angle

We do but no excuses for people who continually get drunk and violent, they need to step up and take responsibility, only such much government, pubs, bottle shops can do to prevent it. I bet you find people that get drunk and violent are probably what is medically termed a “dickhead”.

Witty Rejoinder said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

we need to look at every angle

You’re not the boss of me!

I’m not your boss, nor do I want to be

CrazyNeutrino said:

diddly-squat said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think some types and brands of alcohol cause more violence than other types of alcohol

this is one thing we need to test

Rum, vodka and whiskey come to mind

maybe certain personally types are more susceptible to alcohol and violence than others

what if Uni’s and the alcohol industry looked at lab testing different alcohols to minimize violent tendencies if that was found to be the case

It’s an issue that relates to the individual – that is all.

Yes it involves the individual

>>>that is all

no, it involves alcohol as well as education on emotional control

Maybe bouncers need some basic training in counseling dealing with alcohol affected people

we need to look at every angle

My point was, like what Arts said, that it’s an issue of the individual and as such it’s hard (and quite frankly stupid) to have generalised solutions.

This notwthstanding, the lock out laws are, IMO, a little different as they are predicated around issues related to public safety

Cymek said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

diddly-squat said:

It’s an issue that relates to the individual – that is all.

Yes it involves the individual

>>>that is all

no, it involves alcohol as well as education on emotional control

Maybe bouncers need some basic training in counseling dealing with alcohol affected people

we need to look at every angle

We do but no excuses for people who continually get drunk and violent, they need to step up and take responsibility, only such much government, pubs, bottle shops can do to prevent it. I bet you find people that get drunk and violent are probably what is medically termed a “dickhead”.

Yes, there are different situations, everybody is different,

>>>people who continually get drunk and violent

It would be interesting to teach these people emotional control while drinking excessively or do you ban them from drinking, does that make it better or worse?

CrazyNeutrino said:

Cymek said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Yes it involves the individual

>>>that is all

no, it involves alcohol as well as education on emotional control

Maybe bouncers need some basic training in counseling dealing with alcohol affected people

we need to look at every angle

We do but no excuses for people who continually get drunk and violent, they need to step up and take responsibility, only such much government, pubs, bottle shops can do to prevent it. I bet you find people that get drunk and violent are probably what is medically termed a “dickhead”.

Yes, there are different situations, everybody is different,

>>>people who continually get drunk and violent

It would be interesting to teach these people emotional control while drinking excessively or do you ban them from drinking, does that make it better or worse?

Courts get them to try and do counselling programmes for alcohol abuse, emotional control, etc but I am not sure how successful it is as many of them have lifestyles that revolve around drinking.

diddly-squat said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

diddly-squat said:

It’s an issue that relates to the individual – that is all.

Yes it involves the individual

>>>that is all

no, it involves alcohol as well as education on emotional control

Maybe bouncers need some basic training in counseling dealing with alcohol affected people

we need to look at every angle

My point was, like what Arts said, that it’s an issue of the individual and as such it’s hard (and quite frankly stupid) to have generalised solutions.

This notwthstanding, the lock out laws are, IMO, a little different as they are predicated around issues related to public safety

>>>My point was, like what Arts said, that it’s an issue of the individual and as such it’s hard (and quite frankly stupid) to have generalised solutions.

Yes everybody is different, different personify types, different situations, many other variables, different types of alcohol, people drinking on empty stomachs, et al.

I think its fair to say that in many cases alcohol does cause or leads to violence

Alcohol can lead many people to their deaths by drink driving,

there are no warnings on alcohol products that cause this

Many people can drink alcohol and they are fine with it, no violence, but you have this other group of people who do have a problem with it

I think its fair to say that in many cases alcohol does cause or leads to violence

i think it leads to violence in very few cases.

JudgeMental said:

I think its fair to say that in many cases alcohol does cause or leads to violence

i think it leads to violence in very few cases.

I disagree.

CrazyNeutrino said:

JudgeMental said:

I think its fair to say that in many cases alcohol does cause or leads to violence

i think it leads to violence in very few cases.

I disagree.

think of how many people go out on a fri and sat night and drink and how many get violent. it would be only a few %.

CrazyNeutrino said:

JudgeMental said:

I think its fair to say that in many cases alcohol does cause or leads to violence

i think it leads to violence in very few cases.

I disagree.

More that when violence does occur often alcohol or some other drug has been consumed. The violence is always there but the emotional self control (what little exists) is removed when drunk.

JudgeMental said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

JudgeMental said:

I think its fair to say that in many cases alcohol does cause or leads to violence

i think it leads to violence in very few cases.

I disagree.

think of how many people go out on a fri and sat night and drink and how many get violent. it would be only a few %.

How many people sit at home get drunk, argue and fight?

CrazyNeutrino said:

JudgeMental said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I disagree.

think of how many people go out on a fri and sat night and drink and how many get violent. it would be only a few %.

How many people sit at home get drunk, argue and fight?

LOL, argue. You haven’t been to a pud.

But to answer you question i will still say that as a % of people who sit at home and drink very few would get into fights.

CrazyNeutrino said:

JudgeMental said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I disagree.

think of how many people go out on a fri and sat night and drink and how many get violent. it would be only a few %.

How many people sit at home get drunk, argue and fight?

More than those that go out and get drunk.

How many people start boasting about stuff when they are drinking?

How does alcohol do that?

What’s a lockout law?

Reminds me of Aboriginal problems. In order to reduce alcohol related violence they were locked out of alcohol stores. But that didn’t work either as the Aboriginal people fought against the lockout.

Also reminds me that it was an alcohol lockout at the Eureka pub on the goldfields that was the initial trigger that led to the miners rebellion and the battle of the Eureka stockade.

mollwollfumble said:

What’s a lockout law?

Reminds me of Aboriginal problems. In order to reduce alcohol related violence they were locked out of alcohol stores. But that didn’t work either as the Aboriginal people fought against the lockout.

Also reminds me that it was an alcohol lockout at the Eureka pub on the goldfields that was the initial trigger that led to the miners rebellion and the battle of the Eureka stockade.

That would be a good name for a beer.

mollwollfumble said:

What’s a lockout law?

Reminds me of Aboriginal problems. In order to reduce alcohol related violence they were locked out of alcohol stores. But that didn’t work either as the Aboriginal people fought against the lockout.

Also reminds me that it was an alcohol lockout at the Eureka pub on the goldfields that was the initial trigger that led to the miners rebellion and the battle of the Eureka stockade.

We get a lot of Aboriginal people through the courts for alcohol related violence, it’s really quite nasty.
It’s rather sad as many of them don’t seem to have much going for them and it would be a rather depressing life.

CrazyNeutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

What’s a lockout law?

Reminds me of Aboriginal problems. In order to reduce alcohol related violence they were locked out of alcohol stores. But that didn’t work either as the Aboriginal people fought against the lockout.

Also reminds me that it was an alcohol lockout at the Eureka pub on the goldfields that was the initial trigger that led to the miners rebellion and the battle of the Eureka stockade.

That would be a good name for a beer.

http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/323939/eureka-stockade-inspires-new-beer/

there is a stockade beer

but not a Eureka stockade beer

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

What’s a lockout law?

Reminds me of Aboriginal problems. In order to reduce alcohol related violence they were locked out of alcohol stores. But that didn’t work either as the Aboriginal people fought against the lockout.

Also reminds me that it was an alcohol lockout at the Eureka pub on the goldfields that was the initial trigger that led to the miners rebellion and the battle of the Eureka stockade.

We get a lot of Aboriginal people through the courts for alcohol related violence, it’s really quite nasty.
It’s rather sad as many of them don’t seem to have much going for them and it would be a rather depressing life.

perhaps alcohol is being used to cover an underlying problem, which could be anything

mollwollfumble said:

What’s a lockout law?

Reminds me of Aboriginal problems. In order to reduce alcohol related violence they were locked out of alcohol stores. But that didn’t work either as the Aboriginal people fought against the lockout.

Also reminds me that it was an alcohol lockout at the Eureka pub on the goldfields that was the initial trigger that led to the miners rebellion and the battle of the Eureka stockade.

the eureka hotel was burnt down

http://eurekapedia.org/Eureka_Hotel

CrazyNeutrino said:

“I think will not work because, probably, what the State Government wants is behavioural change, and you don’t get behavioural change from blaming it on the operators,” he said.

Bit of a stupid thing to say. Blame has nothing to do with it.

CrazyNeutrino said:

How many people start boasting about stuff when they are drinking?

How does alcohol do that?

it doesn’t, people do…

Honestly …

I think there is way too much of a drinking culture in Australia. I don’t think the best thing to be doing to young brains is to be using them to mop up scotch at 3 am on a Sunday.

dv said:

Honestly …

I think there is way too much of a drinking culture in Australia. I don’t think the best thing to be doing to young brains is to be using them to mop up scotch at 3 am on a Sunday.

Truly said.

>…../cut/……empathetically…../cut/….

what about nuanced indifference?

or avoiding provoking a hostile assignment of sentiments (adverse attention).

point being, not everything intelligent about emotions is likely to be (or of practical realities) likely to be nice.

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

What’s a lockout law?

Reminds me of Aboriginal problems. In order to reduce alcohol related violence they were locked out of alcohol stores. But that didn’t work either as the Aboriginal people fought against the lockout.

Also reminds me that it was an alcohol lockout at the Eureka pub on the goldfields that was the initial trigger that led to the miners rebellion and the battle of the Eureka stockade.

We get a lot of Aboriginal people through the courts for alcohol related violence, it’s really quite nasty.
It’s rather sad as many of them don’t seem to have much going for them and it would be a rather depressing life.

yes, aboriginal people are quite highly represented in the criminal justice system. Interestingly, they do not metabolize alcohol the same way as we do, their livers have an enzyme (or lack it) that Caucasian people do/do not have, which makes the effects of the alcohol much different than us. Add that the the cultural aspect of being more physical than verbal when it comes to discipline or expressions…

Arts said:

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

What’s a lockout law?

Reminds me of Aboriginal problems. In order to reduce alcohol related violence they were locked out of alcohol stores. But that didn’t work either as the Aboriginal people fought against the lockout.

Also reminds me that it was an alcohol lockout at the Eureka pub on the goldfields that was the initial trigger that led to the miners rebellion and the battle of the Eureka stockade.

We get a lot of Aboriginal people through the courts for alcohol related violence, it’s really quite nasty.
It’s rather sad as many of them don’t seem to have much going for them and it would be a rather depressing life.

yes, aboriginal people are quite highly represented in the criminal justice system. Interestingly, they do not metabolize alcohol the same way as we do, their livers have an enzyme (or lack it) that Caucasian people do/do not have, which makes the effects of the alcohol much different than us. Add that the the cultural aspect of being more physical than verbal when it comes to discipline or expressions…

Well its nice they can excel in something