Hunting god in the brain: Spiritual experiences light up neural reward circuits

Millennia-old religious faith and cutting-edge neuroscience seem an unlikely pairing, but by combining the two, researchers have uncovered new information about our brain’s response to spiritual experiences. The team observed the brain’s reward circuits in Mormons as they engaged in spiritual activities, finding that they activated reward regions in a very similar fashion to other stimuli like gambling, drugs, sex and love.

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CrazyNeutrino said:

Hunting god in the brain: Spiritual experiences light up neural reward circuits

Millennia-old religious faith and cutting-edge neuroscience seem an unlikely pairing, but by combining the two, researchers have uncovered new information about our brain’s response to spiritual experiences. The team observed the brain’s reward circuits in Mormons as they engaged in spiritual activities, finding that they activated reward regions in a very similar fashion to other stimuli like gambling, drugs, sex and love.

More…

They even call it a pleasure reward from God for believing in him

I’ve always thought there was a difference in how the brain was wired between religious and non-religious people.

party_pants said:

I’ve always thought there was a difference in how the brain was wired between religious and non-religious people.

How about the ones who weren’t religious, succumb to a mental illness and they sign up at the local Catholic church? Then they draw crosses on their bedhead and shuffle around like an old nun, leaving their artistic, argumentative, bright self in some confessional booth.

kii said:

party_pants said:

I’ve always thought there was a difference in how the brain was wired between religious and non-religious people.

How about the ones who weren’t religious, succumb to a mental illness and they sign up at the local Catholic church? Then they draw crosses on their bedhead and shuffle around like an old nun, leaving their artistic, argumentative, bright self in some confessional booth.

I think they need to be humanly put down.

kii is always human when she puts me down

Brain scans on Mormons show religion has a similar effect to taking drugs.

hehehe

CrazyNeutrino said:

Brain scans on Mormons show religion has a similar effect to taking drugs.

hehehe

A bribe by god

Do you reckon all religious figures were just made up by imaginative people (possibly with mental aberrations) and then the masses came to think of them as actually real with no proof whatsoever

My dad always said that bible stories were made up to explain unexplainable things, like how a seashell came to be on top of a mountain a thousand miles from the sea. Obviously, there was a worldwide flood which put it there!

Cymek said:

Do you reckon all religious figures were just made up by imaginative people (possibly with mental aberrations) and then the masses came to think of them as actually real with no proof whatsoever

Anyone who hallucinates, drugs or illness. You could get away by calling someone a witch in days past, imagine what you could do with a really big imaginary being. The general lack of education made people very vulnerable to stories in those days (sorry dv).

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Do you reckon all religious figures were just made up by imaginative people (possibly with mental aberrations) and then the masses came to think of them as actually real with no proof whatsoever

Anyone who hallucinates, drugs or illness. You could get away by calling someone a witch in days past, imagine what you could do with a really big imaginary being. The general lack of education made people very vulnerable to stories in those days (sorry dv).

Yes a means of control and having an army of willing soldiers who will kill themselves and others in the name of god.

Otherwise normal and rationale people sometimes have an experience of seeing and conversing with God, it might just be a one off that is so powerful it convinces them of a supreme deity and they become a born again.

I think it’s just a function of the god spot, I think their experience is real to them, and it doesn’t make them an idiot.

AwesomeO said:

Otherwise normal and rationale people sometimes have an experience of seeing and conversing with God, it might just be a one off that is so powerful it convinces them of a supreme deity and they become a born again.

I think it’s just a function of the god spot, I think their experience is real to them, and it doesn’t make them an idiot.

No but if they let that take over most aspects of their life then something is wrong.

Cymek said:

AwesomeO said:

Otherwise normal and rationale people sometimes have an experience of seeing and conversing with God, it might just be a one off that is so powerful it convinces them of a supreme deity and they become a born again.

I think it’s just a function of the god spot, I think their experience is real to them, and it doesn’t make them an idiot.

No but if they let that take over most aspects of their life then something is wrong.

Not necessarily. If you’d had a supernatural experience so powerful it changed you from a skeptic, you’d probably dedicate your life to a higher being. Or if you were desperate, like a prisoner or something.

Cymek said:

No but if they let that take over most aspects of their life then something is wrong.

Why should religion be any different to other ideologies like politics or ethics?

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

No but if they let that take over most aspects of their life then something is wrong.

Why should religion be any different to other ideologies like politics or ethics?

It’s not based on anything real and people allow it to dictate how they should live.
Much of politics is also bullshit and ethics is change to suit whatever circumstances many people desire.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

No but if they let that take over most aspects of their life then something is wrong.

Why should religion be any different to other ideologies like politics or ethics?

One appeals to the emotions and the other to the mind. Don’t forget you get an answer of what happens when you die, ie the afterlife.

Cymek said:

It’s not based on anything real and people allow it to dictate how they should live.
Much of politics is also bullshit and ethics is change to suit whatever circumstances many people desire.

You sound very jaded.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

It’s not based on anything real and people allow it to dictate how they should live.
Much of politics is also bullshit and ethics is change to suit whatever circumstances many people desire.

You sound very jaded.

A lot of the time, I suppose I don’t just accept things because they are a tradition when they serve no real purpose except to just maintain the status quo.

Religion gives a purpose to it all.

Peak Warming Man said:

Religion gives a purpose to it all.

Oh? Really?

Peak Warming Man said:

Religion gives a purpose to it all.

to what all?

Maybe the universe has its own purpose.

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Religion gives a purpose to it all.

to what all?

To religion.

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Religion gives a purpose to it all.

to what all?

Life, the Universe, Morris dancing.

Peak Warming Man said:

Religion gives a purpose to it all.

Bullshit. Religions have held back the progress of the human race for thousands of years. During the Black Death, religions were responsible for increasing the death toll. Religions, even today, are responsible for suppression of free speech and repression of women. Religion is the biggest blight on the face of the earth.

btm said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Religion gives a purpose to it all.

Bullshit. Religions have held back the progress of the human race for thousands of years. During the Black Death, religions were responsible for increasing the death toll. Religions, even today, are responsible for suppression of free speech and repression of women. Religion is the biggest blight on the face of the earth.

You sound troubled, my son.

Every society in the history of mankind has felt the need for a religion, it predates all the modern religions.
It’s in our DNA, it’s in our star dust.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Brain scans on Mormons show religion has a similar effect to taking drugs.

hehehe

Breathing oxygen is very positive also. Eating, and drinking fluids.

personally i think religion is the work of the devil and no good will ever come of it.

crazy started a religion bashing thread

I’d guess spiritual inclination are primarily a projection of consciousness (can be seen so, and perhaps it’s useful)

transition said:

crazy started a religion bashing thread

I’d guess spiritual inclination are primarily a projection of consciousness (can be seen so, and perhaps it’s useful)

How is the article religious bashing?

The article is about the Religious Brain Project, launched by researchers at the University of Utah. The research was published in the journal Social Neuroscience.

>>>I’d guess spiritual inclination are primarily a projection of consciousness (can be seen so, and perhaps it’s useful)

Uploading all of life’s memories and awareness to a chip could be seen as a projection of consciousness .

Warning: devil’s advocate mode.

> The team observed the brain’s reward circuits in Mormons as they engaged in spiritual activities

I don’t think “Mormons” and “spiritual” should be used in the same sentence.

Peak Warming Man said:

Religion gives a purpose to it all.

I’m glad you think so.

Peak Warming Man said:

Religion gives a purpose to it all.

So you think the universe requires a purpose, like a plastic fork?

>Uploading all of life’s memories and awareness to a chip could be seen as a projection of consciousness

blood pumping around your body (the fleshy body-vehicle, and brain) is part of the experience, same of of your ancestors.

.

Peak Warming Man said:

Every society in the history of mankind has felt the need for a religion, it predates all the modern religions.
It’s in our DNA, it’s in our star dust.

That is undoubtedly true.

But it is also in our DNA to question everything, and look for answers that make sense.

>But it is also in our DNA to question everything, and look for answers that make sense.

not sure about that, to generalize of humans

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Every society in the history of mankind has felt the need for a religion, it predates all the modern religions.
It’s in our DNA, it’s in our star dust.

That is undoubtedly true.

But it is also in our DNA to question everything, and look for answers that make sense.

religion is just the way people fill the gaps in understanding…

transition said:

>But it is also in our DNA to question everything, and look for answers that make sense.

not sure about that, to generalize of humans

I wasn’t generalising.

Some people have DNA that leads them to question everything, and look for answers that make sense, just as others have DNA that leads them to accept the statements of figures of authority, even if they make no sense at all. Both types of DNA are in “our DNA”.

>religion is just the way people fill the gaps in understanding…

God, no mystery.

Puts a cool spin on the hoodoo generated by the devices denoted mnd.

Strange world it is, things like gravity, can’t see it, can walk through it, gives you an up and down reference and much more.

Imagine somethng like that being the centre of the world.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

>But it is also in our DNA to question everything, and look for answers that make sense.

not sure about that, to generalize of humans

I wasn’t generalising.

Some people have DNA that leads them to question everything, and look for answers that make sense, just as others have DNA that leads them to accept the statements of figures of authority, even if they make no sense at all. Both types of DNA are in “our DNA”.

okay a softened our, you qualified it with some.

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Every society in the history of mankind has felt the need for a religion, it predates all the modern religions.
It’s in our DNA, it’s in our star dust.

That is undoubtedly true.

But it is also in our DNA to question everything, and look for answers that make sense.

religion is just the way people fill the gaps in understanding…

I think it is more than that.

The widespread occurrence of religions suggests to me that it helped the survival of hunter-gatherer societies.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

>But it is also in our DNA to question everything, and look for answers that make sense.

not sure about that, to generalize of humans

I wasn’t generalising.

Some people have DNA that leads them to question everything, and look for answers that make sense, just as others have DNA that leads them to accept the statements of figures of authority, even if they make no sense at all. Both types of DNA are in “our DNA”.

okay a softened our, you qualified it with some.

No, not at all. Both are just as much part of “our” DNA.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I wasn’t generalising.

Some people have DNA that leads them to question everything, and look for answers that make sense, just as others have DNA that leads them to accept the statements of figures of authority, even if they make no sense at all. Both types of DNA are in “our DNA”.

okay a softened our, you qualified it with some.

No, not at all. Both are just as much part of “our” DNA.

you reckon there’s ever a flicker of something, outside the constraints of DNA

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That is undoubtedly true.

But it is also in our DNA to question everything, and look for answers that make sense.

religion is just the way people fill the gaps in understanding…

I think it is more than that.

The widespread occurrence of religions suggests to me that it helped the survival of hunter-gatherer societies.

That’s a bit bold. It could just be an unhelpful (but not harmful) side effect of nascent intelligence and culture.

transition said:

you reckon there’s ever a flicker of something, outside the constraints of DNA

Depends what those words mean.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

religion is just the way people fill the gaps in understanding…

I think it is more than that.

The widespread occurrence of religions suggests to me that it helped the survival of hunter-gatherer societies.

That’s a bit bold. It could just be an unhelpful (but not harmful) side effect of nascent intelligence and culture.

Perhaps a clan of women witches sow the seeds of a messiah in primitive societies so they can come back centuries later and use it to manipulate them.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

religion is just the way people fill the gaps in understanding…

I think it is more than that.

The widespread occurrence of religions suggests to me that it helped the survival of hunter-gatherer societies.

That’s a bit bold. It could just be an unhelpful (but not harmful) side effect of nascent intelligence and culture.

Well at the very least it helps build a sense of community

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

religion is just the way people fill the gaps in understanding…

I think it is more than that.

The widespread occurrence of religions suggests to me that it helped the survival of hunter-gatherer societies.

That’s a bit bold. It could just be an unhelpful (but not harmful) side effect of nascent intelligence and culture.

Seeing as how it has such a great effect on how cultures develop, I think it would be an extraordinary coincidence if its effects were exactly neutral, but nonetheless occur in all independently developing cultures.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I think it is more than that.

The widespread occurrence of religions suggests to me that it helped the survival of hunter-gatherer societies.

That’s a bit bold. It could just be an unhelpful (but not harmful) side effect of nascent intelligence and culture.

Seeing as how it has such a great effect on how cultures develop, I think it would be an extraordinary coincidence if its effects were exactly neutral, but nonetheless occur in all independently developing cultures.

Well I guess we don’t get to test the hypothesis. I mean all human societies have mental illness: that doesn’t prove that it is helpful. It’s just there.

Cymek said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I think it is more than that.

The widespread occurrence of religions suggests to me that it helped the survival of hunter-gatherer societies.

That’s a bit bold. It could just be an unhelpful (but not harmful) side effect of nascent intelligence and culture.

Perhaps a clan of women witches sow the seeds of a messiah in primitive societies so they can come back centuries later and use it to manipulate them.

You’ve been reading ‘Dune’ again.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

That’s a bit bold. It could just be an unhelpful (but not harmful) side effect of nascent intelligence and culture.

Seeing as how it has such a great effect on how cultures develop, I think it would be an extraordinary coincidence if its effects were exactly neutral, but nonetheless occur in all independently developing cultures.

Well I guess we don’t get to test the hypothesis. I mean all human societies have mental illness: that doesn’t prove that it is helpful. It’s just there.

If everyone, or almost everyone, had mental illness, that would strongly suggest that it was helpful to survival (along with the other things that were associated with it).

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Seeing as how it has such a great effect on how cultures develop, I think it would be an extraordinary coincidence if its effects were exactly neutral, but nonetheless occur in all independently developing cultures.

Well I guess we don’t get to test the hypothesis. I mean all human societies have mental illness: that doesn’t prove that it is helpful. It’s just there.

If everyone, or almost everyone, had mental illness, that would strongly suggest that it was helpful to survival (along with the other things that were associated with it).

Okay, bad example… Gum disease, then. Nearly everyone had gum disease.

>If everyone, or almost everyone, had mental illness, that would strongly suggest that it was helpful to survival (along with the other things that were associated with it).

there is that aspect that crazy people can become unpredictable, dangerous, or a negative resource (like sick people), so if for a moment mental illness was replaced with crazy it could be said that sending someone crazy is always in the background as a possibility (to be avoided).

so it might be necessity that most people can be made crazy.

transition said:

>If everyone, or almost everyone, had mental illness, that would strongly suggest that it was helpful to survival (along with the other things that were associated with it).

there is that aspect that crazy people can become unpredictable, dangerous, or a negative resource (like sick people), so if for a moment mental illness was replaced with crazy it could be said that sending someone crazy is always in the background as a possibility (to be avoided).

so it might be necessity that most people can be made crazy.

Many prophets claim to hear and/or talk to god and aren’t considered crazy by believers but some random off the street who did that would get locked up and medicated

• so it might be necessity that most people can be made crazy.

Everyone already is…

I don’t like the title of this thread. I keep thinking it says that the god of hunting is in the brain.

buffy said:

I don’t like the title of this thread. I keep thinking it says that the god of hunting is in the brain.

He is, buffy

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Seeing as how it has such a great effect on how cultures develop, I think it would be an extraordinary coincidence if its effects were exactly neutral, but nonetheless occur in all independently developing cultures.

Well I guess we don’t get to test the hypothesis. I mean all human societies have mental illness: that doesn’t prove that it is helpful. It’s just there.

If everyone, or almost everyone, had mental illness, that would strongly suggest that it was helpful to survival (along with the other things that were associated with it).

No, because if you look at the definitions of individual mental illnesses, “poor survival” actually forms part of the definition.

Or to put it another way. If a!most everyone decided to jump off a cliff then that would not make jumping off a cliff helpful for survival.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Well I guess we don’t get to test the hypothesis. I mean all human societies have mental illness: that doesn’t prove that it is helpful. It’s just there.

If everyone, or almost everyone, had mental illness, that would strongly suggest that it was helpful to survival (along with the other things that were associated with it).

No, because if you look at the definitions of individual mental illnesses, “poor survival” actually forms part of the definition.

Or to put it another way. If a!most everyone decided to jump off a cliff then that would not make jumping off a cliff helpful for survival.

It could be that the cognitive variability that enables mental illness is good for survival, not the mental illness.

Bubblecar said:

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

If everyone, or almost everyone, had mental illness, that would strongly suggest that it was helpful to survival (along with the other things that were associated with it).

No, because if you look at the definitions of individual mental illnesses, “poor survival” actually forms part of the definition.

Or to put it another way. If a!most everyone decided to jump off a cliff then that would not make jumping off a cliff helpful for survival.

It could be that the cognitive variability that enables mental illness is good for survival, not the mental illness.

This. It’s a side effect, not a direct benefit.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

mollwollfumble said:

No, because if you look at the definitions of individual mental illnesses, “poor survival” actually forms part of the definition.

Or to put it another way. If a!most everyone decided to jump off a cliff then that would not make jumping off a cliff helpful for survival.

It could be that the cognitive variability that enables mental illness is good for survival, not the mental illness.

This. It’s a side effect, not a direct benefit.

of homeostasis in the broader sense (homeostatic mechanisms) I suppose people tend toward behaviours that don’t incapacitate (reduce adaptive responses). Avoiding, injury, illness, torment, reduced fitness.

the mind’s a proximate mechanism for survival, it happens to sorta do it.

cf There’s a correlation between adept in the physical sciences and being on the autism spectrum but this does not mean that the existence of people with extreme, debilitating autism has been a direct aid to survival.