I have a container of liquid soap on the sink at Casterton. It leaks. Somehow. I thought I had a busted plastic container, so I discarded and bought a new one. The new one does it too. I thought it might be a Summer heat thing, as the basin is on the hot north wall. But this one has been there over Winter and it’s done it. I have the same stuff in the consulting room and the staff room in Hamilton and neither of them have leaked. I cannot tell where it is escaping from. I have not tried a different brand.

Anyone want to suggest what is going on here?

buffy said:

I have a container of liquid soap on the sink at Casterton. It leaks. Somehow. I thought I had a busted plastic container, so I discarded and bought a new one. The new one does it too. I thought it might be a Summer heat thing, as the basin is on the hot north wall. But this one has been there over Winter and it’s done it. I have the same stuff in the consulting room and the staff room in Hamilton and neither of them have leaked. I cannot tell where it is escaping from. I have not tried a different brand.

Anyone want to suggest what is going on here?

They’re both from the same bad batch.

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

I have a container of liquid soap on the sink at Casterton. It leaks. Somehow. I thought I had a busted plastic container, so I discarded and bought a new one. The new one does it too. I thought it might be a Summer heat thing, as the basin is on the hot north wall. But this one has been there over Winter and it’s done it. I have the same stuff in the consulting room and the staff room in Hamilton and neither of them have leaked. I cannot tell where it is escaping from. I have not tried a different brand.

Anyone want to suggest what is going on here?

They’re both from the same bad batch.

I know I bought the latest one from the supermarket in Casterton. I think I bought the previous one in Hamilton, but it was a long time ago. We don’t go through it very quickly. Unlikely to be the same batch.

buffy said:

I know I bought the latest one from the supermarket in Casterton. I think I bought the previous one in Hamilton, but it was a long time ago. We don’t go through it very quickly. Unlikely to be the same batch.

I wonder if the supermarkets have the same problem with them leaking on their shelves.

Some sort of soap-based stigmata?

Ok lets start with a few searching questions.
Take a seat Buffy.
Where on the alleged soap container is the alleged leak?

Peak Warming Man said:

Ok lets start with a few searching questions.
Take a seat Buffy.
Where on the alleged soap container is the alleged leak?

I think it is coming out the pump bit. But I don’t know how.

buffy said:

I have a container of liquid soap on the sink at Casterton. It leaks. Somehow. I thought I had a busted plastic container, so I discarded and bought a new one. The new one does it too. I thought it might be a Summer heat thing, as the basin is on the hot north wall. But this one has been there over Winter and it’s done it. I have the same stuff in the consulting room and the staff room in Hamilton and neither of them have leaked. I cannot tell where it is escaping from. I have not tried a different brand.

Anyone want to suggest what is going on here?

How do you know it leaks?

There are five things I can think of that look like leaks.
1. Normal use, soap dribbling down the side leaves a ring underneath that looks like a leak.
2. A small gap between the container and the inset at the top. Leaks whenever is it is tilted enough for the interior liquid to come in touch with the insert.
3. Soap climbs the walls of the container due to surface tension. Oil does this, I’m not sure about liquid soap.
4. There’s a crack in the plastic. Some brands have containers that crack very easily if bumped or knocked.
5. There’s a pinhole fault in the plastic. Due to faulty manufacture.

I struck examples of 4 and 5 many years ago when I worked in quality control at a shampoo manufacturer.

I use Aldi brand liquid soap. No problems.

buffy said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Ok lets start with a few searching questions.
Take a seat Buffy.
Where on the alleged soap container is the alleged leak?

I think it is coming out the pump bit. But I don’t know how.

Have you or any member of your staff removed the top of the alleged soap container.

I had the same problem with the same dispenser and soap manufacturer. The liquid soap leaks from the hand pump top, which I put down to no air bubbles in the tube and the viscus nature of the soap, which sucks the liquid soap in the container very slowly out of the top, something like water transfer along a pipe, which when started will continue to draw water without any mechanical assistance. Solution, make such there is an air-pocket in the draw tube.

PermeateFree said:

I had the same problem with the same dispenser and soap manufacturer. The liquid soap leaks from the hand pump top, which I put down to no air bubbles in the tube and the viscous nature of the soap, which sucks the liquid soap in the container very slowly out of the top, something like water transfer along a pipe, which when started will continue to draw water without any mechanical assistance. Solution, make such there is an air-pocket in the draw tube.

Problem solvered! Well done!

i reckon as you pump it you raise the pressure inside the bottle a little and this forces some liquid out after use.

had look at that, computer thought about it for a long time, displayed, then a rather large popup emerged

guess the handpump has to have a plunger/piston, fills on one side (atmospheric pressure) while other side has hand force (requires some valve action), so former requires the container have a vent.

but i’d expect as is the case with many things that have a plunger/piston (greaseguns similarly or whatever) that bypass (imperfect seal) can be a problem. This possibly might pressurize the container also.

nah fills on spring-return, talking out me butt

holds up hand

I don’t think the main question has been answered.
Why does it happen in Town A and not in town B.

Peak Warming Man said:

holds up hand

I don’t think the main question has been answered.
Why does it happen in Town A and not in town B.

different heights about sea level, therefore different pressures. as the container only gains a little pressure this difference in barometric pressure is enough to make one leak, the higher one, than the other.

buffy said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Ok lets start with a few searching questions.
Take a seat Buffy.
Where on the alleged soap container is the alleged leak?

I think it is coming out the pump bit. But I don’t know how.

OK. Remove the pump bit and see.

ChrispenEvan said:

Peak Warming Man said:

holds up hand

I don’t think the main question has been answered.
Why does it happen in Town A and not in town B.

different heights about sea level, therefore different pressures. as the container only gains a little pressure this difference in barometric pressure is enough to make one leak, the higher one, than the other.

that, or it’s pumped different depending where it’s positioned (full strokes, half strokes, fast strokes, slow strokes), like height or whatever

or heating, bigger temp swings

and if it isn’t what i have theorized then….magic…

ChrispenEvan said:

and if it isn’t what i have theorized then….magic…

I’m not sure 172m would do it…I’m going with magic…

Woodie said:

buffy said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Ok lets start with a few searching questions.
Take a seat Buffy.
Where on the alleged soap container is the alleged leak?

I think it is coming out the pump bit. But I don’t know how.

OK. Remove the pump bit and see.

Or swap the pump bits for the one that doesn’t leak.

Reading instructions for new oven

“DO NOT USE polyunsaturated oils with cooking in the oven. The type of oil can cause heavy deposits inside the oven”

Say wah???

Thanks people. I went away to watch a couple of episodes of Round the Twist.

I think my next move is to buy a different brand, leave it on the sink at Casterton, and see what happens. The dispenser there is rarely used. I had been visiting twice a month for consulting, now only once a month. Although this phenomenon started back when I was doing two weeks on and one off. Of course it also gets used when I go there to do gardening some weekends.

If Permeate has had the same thing happen, it might well be that particular dispenser. Although that still doesn’t really explain why it happens in Casterton and not in Hamilton.

It’s bafflin’..(Hamish Macbeth)

Woodie said:

Reading instructions for new oven

“DO NOT USE polyunsaturated oils with cooking in the oven. The type of oil can cause heavy deposits inside the oven”

Say wah???

Just put a lid on it.

plastic containers have dodgy seam?

or the thernal swings/cycles pumping it out

>>The dispenser there is rarely used

sits bolt upright

This could end up being important when we release our preliminary report.

Woodie said:

Reading instructions for new oven

“DO NOT USE polyunsaturated oils with cooking in the oven. The type of oil can cause heavy deposits inside the oven”

Say wah???

WTF!

Return the thing.

I think the pump works by increasing pressure in the chamber when pushed, which pushes soap up the tube, then allowing air to enter the chamber (through a one-way valve) to replace it. If the chamber is subject to heating and cooling cycles without being used (as it would be when left unused in an empty house), heating will increase pressure, pushing soap out, and cooling will draw in more air, re-setting the chamber for the next cycle.

How does that theory affect you?

Rule 303 said:

I think the pump works by increasing pressure in the chamber when pushed, which pushes soap up the tube, then allowing air to enter the chamber (through a one-way valve) to replace it. If the chamber is subject to heating and cooling cycles without being used (as it would be when left unused in an empty house), heating will increase pressure, pushing soap out, and cooling will draw in more air, re-setting the chamber for the next cycle.

How does that theory affect you?

I thought that way to start with. Until it happened during the winter we just had. There wasn’t a lot of heating going on.

buffy said:

I thought that way to start with. Until it happened during the winter we just had. There wasn’t a lot of heating going on.

If the theory is good, temperature change is the cause.

You can test the theory by loosening the top of the bottle before you leave the house, to allow air both ways.

Rule 303 said:

buffy said:

I thought that way to start with. Until it happened during the winter we just had. There wasn’t a lot of heating going on.

If the theory is good, temperature change is the cause.

You can test the theory by loosening the top of the bottle before you leave the house, to allow air both ways.

I’ve used those pumps before; they work as pumps even if the top is off the bottle, and only the feed tube is in the liquid. Increasing the pressure inside the bottle is not how they work.

btm said:

Rule 303 said:

buffy said:

I thought that way to start with. Until it happened during the winter we just had. There wasn’t a lot of heating going on.

If the theory is good, temperature change is the cause.

You can test the theory by loosening the top of the bottle before you leave the house, to allow air both ways.

I’ve used those pumps before; they work as pumps even if the top is off the bottle, and only the feed tube is in the liquid. Increasing the pressure inside the bottle is not how they work.

correct, but as the mechanism is fairly basic i was thinking that it does raise the pressure a little but not by design.

btm said:

I’ve used those pumps before; they work as pumps even if the top is off the bottle, and only the feed tube is in the liquid. Increasing the pressure inside the bottle is not how they work.

Oooh, you’re dead right! I’ve used them without the bottle being sealed, too. Dammit!

Wait, does the fact that the pump doesn’t pressurise the container in normal use mean my theory wouldn’t work? Pressure increase might still push soap up the tube.

I think we should wait until Buffy does an experiment. As Woodie said earlier, see if it happens if the top is off. If so then it a leak in the container. If not then further investigation is needed.

warmer weather tends to come with higher atmospheric pressure, you have pump and valve action that tends flow (usually with the aid of hand pressure and return spring) in one direction air-in-somewhere>liquid up the pipe>through the pump>then out the nozzle.

you know it could be a bit like the little reservoir tank for your engine coolant comes in near your radiator cap, when engine cools it sucks a bit back in (that’d require a double valve?). Doesn’t it? (dumb’s not sure) Or is that just for excess from heating expansion (heating expansion, microbubble evaporation on cylinders, gasket leakage etc).

the pump/plunger (displacement unit) probably has a non-return valve (or an action that does that).

quite irrelevant anyway if it’s a leaky plastic container, dodgy seams or whatever

We have a similar problem with the dispenser at work, which is not a pump like that but one similar to those found in public toilets.

Sometimes the liquid soap is very runny and leaks, sometimes the soap is thicker and doesn’t leak. Has nothing to do with humidity or temperature.

And all of the liquid soap was in the dish when I got here tonight. So I’ve washed it down the sink…should have nice smelling pipes for a while. And I’ve got as new Dettol brand one, opened it, pumped it to get the soap up the pump thing, and it’s sitting on the dish. I’ll have a look tomorrow and see if that tries to escape too.