Mozart, not AC/DC, brings competitive edge to men

Quick – you’re on a team of men about to enter a competition. Your team can either listen to “Thunderstruck” by AC/DC or “Andante from Sonata for Two Pianos” by Mozart during the contest. Which do you choose? Well, if the competition in question is a round of the classic board game Operation, you go for the classical, according to a new, lighthearted study from Imperial College London and the Royal College of Music.

More…

I always prefer Mozart.

I can think of at least three independent reasons why that Mozart piece suits that board game.

“male-specific auditory stress”.. a term not known to Google except in relation to this story..

Hmmm

Ian said:

“male-specific auditory stress”.. a term not known to Google except in relation to this story..

Hmmm

I googled male-specific auditory stress and google returned About 1,660,000 results

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ian said:

“male-specific auditory stress”.. a term not known to Google except in relation to this story..

Hmmm

I googled male-specific auditory stress and google returned About 1,660,000 results

Did you check that they all related to the full search phrase or just one of the words?

CrazyNeutrino said:

Ian said:

“male-specific auditory stress”.. a term not known to Google except in relation to this story..

Hmmm

I googled male-specific auditory stress and google returned About 1,660,000 results

I’m looking at a tablet..
PC is due for its monthly kicking

shrug

Brain performance improvement was first proposed by research findings in 1991 -> Mozart Effect and has been supported by several pieces of research since.

Rule 303 said:

Brain performance improvement was first proposed by research findings in 1991 -> Mozart Effect and has been supported by several pieces of research since.

It’s all the rage with sport science at the moment, particularly endurance sports.

poikilotherm said:

It’s all the rage with sport science at the moment, particularly endurance sports.

Of course it is. Endurance sports people are flogs.

;-)

Rule 303 said:

poikilotherm said:

It’s all the rage with sport science at the moment, particularly endurance sports.

Of course it is. Endurance sports people are flogs.

;-)

IK…

poikilotherm said:

Rule 303 said:

poikilotherm said:

It’s all the rage with sport science at the moment, particularly endurance sports.

Of course it is. Endurance sports people are flogs.

;-)

IK…

And Triathletes… God help us.
And Footy players! Have I mentioned Footy players yet?

Flogs the lot of them…

lad was good on electric guitar, i’d give him a disc, Mozart or whatever and say have a go at playing this

he did quite well, though’s challenged, he said to me once (can’t remember now what track and composer) ….this guys really clever

Rule 303 said:

Brain performance improvement was first proposed by research findings in 1991 -> Mozart Effect and has been supported by several pieces of research since.

Hmmm.. results may vary…

Another meta-analysis by Pietschnig, Voracek, and Formann (2010) combined results of 39 studies to answer the question as to whether or not the Mozart Effect exists. They concluded that there is little evidence to support the Mozart effect, as shown by small effect sizes.

>Brain performance improvement was first proposed by research findings in 1991 -> Mozart Effect and has been supported by several pieces of research since.

i first read of it in NS dunno ~15year ago, and it was specifically mozart that helped students concentrate

transition said:

>Brain performance improvement was first proposed by research findings in 1991 -> Mozart Effect and has been supported by several pieces of research since.

i first read of it in NS dunno ~15year ago, and it was specifically mozart that helped students concentrate

Isn’t classical music quite or somewhat mathematical in nature

Cymek said:

transition said:

>Brain performance improvement was first proposed by research findings in 1991 -> Mozart Effect and has been supported by several pieces of research since.

i first read of it in NS dunno ~15year ago, and it was specifically mozart that helped students concentrate

Isn’t classical music quite or somewhat mathematical in nature

All music can be reduced to mathematics, in regard to its structure. It’s just that the mathematics of classical music is usually more complex than that of pop music.

Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

transition said:

>Brain performance improvement was first proposed by research findings in 1991 -> Mozart Effect and has been supported by several pieces of research since.

i first read of it in NS dunno ~15year ago, and it was specifically mozart that helped students concentrate

Isn’t classical music quite or somewhat mathematical in nature

All music can be reduced to mathematics, in regard to its structure. It’s just that the mathematics of classical music is usually more complex than that of pop music.

Which could be why it stimulates the brain better

Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

transition said:

>Brain performance improvement was first proposed by research findings in 1991 -> Mozart Effect and has been supported by several pieces of research since.

i first read of it in NS dunno ~15year ago, and it was specifically mozart that helped students concentrate

Isn’t classical music quite or somewhat mathematical in nature

All music can be reduced to mathematics, in regard to its structure. It’s just that the mathematics of classical music is usually more complex than that of pop music.

certainly represents or’s representative of the structure of minds, I guess, got to be in some way.

probably mozart does what it (he) does without demanding your attention, or taking it (of why it would help with concentrations etc) That’d be half the trick.

transition said:

Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

Isn’t classical music quite or somewhat mathematical in nature

All music can be reduced to mathematics, in regard to its structure. It’s just that the mathematics of classical music is usually more complex than that of pop music.

certainly represents or’s representative of the structure of minds, I guess, got to be in some way.

probably mozart does what it (he) does without demanding your attention, or taking it (of why it would help with concentrations etc) That’d be half the trick.

But why always Mozart? There are other classical musicians you know.

Also, although classical is undoubtedly more complex in formal structure, all forms of popular music (even pop) can have great hidden complexity.

The Rev Dodgson said:

But why always Mozart? There are other classical musicians you know.

Also, although classical is undoubtedly more complex in formal structure, all forms of popular music (even pop) can have great hidden complexity.

Yeah, it’s just a fad. 20th century classical music, in which chromaticism was much more welcome, tends to be much more complex than Mozart.

And there are various forms of indigenous folk music that can be notoriously hard to accurately score.

>But why always Mozart? There are other classical musicians you know.
Also, although classical is undoubtedly more complex in formal structure, all forms of popular music (even pop) can have great hidden complexity

i’m not saying much, just the bit of research (in NS mag) done way back indicated a substantive affect from only (or mainly) mozart, but’s by memory, I mean ~15 year ago, mate, I lost a heap of neurons since then

lad use to play a lot of heavy metal(guitar), much of it I thought very complex, like Children of Bodom, which I always felt had a bit of orchestral thing about it

transition said:

but’s by memory, I mean ~15 year ago, mate, I lost a heap of neurons since then

Obviously you didn’t listen to enough Mozart.

But I’m trapped in a YouTube Martin Simpson concert, which is quite complex enough for me.

Cymek said:

transition said:

>Brain performance improvement was first proposed by research findings in 1991 -> Mozart Effect and has been supported by several pieces of research since.

i first read of it in NS dunno ~15year ago, and it was specifically mozart that helped students concentrate

Isn’t classical music quite or somewhat mathematical in nature

AC/DC would be better for, say football, than Mozart. Active muscle movement requires active music.

Adagio music reduces heartbeat, alleviates fears, leads to better breathing, reduces pain.

And remember the Stig. Remember what he played while driving.

>>Adagio music reduces heartbeat, alleviates fears, leads to better breathing, reduces pain.

And calms wild beasts.
A chap went to Africa to prove that.
He went to a clearing in the jungle, took out his adagio and started playing.
Gorillas and lions and leopards and rhinos started gathering around and sitting down and listening.
Then the elephant turned up, walked up to the chap, picked him up and smashed him to the ground dead.
The lion asked him why he did that and the elephant said ‘WHAT”

Bubblecar said:

All music can be reduced to mathematics, in regard to its structure. It’s just that the mathematics of classical music is usually more complex than that of pop music.

Not sure I would agree with this assertion, Car. I don’t see how the mathematics would be any different between the two forms.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Also, although classical is undoubtedly more complex in formal structure, all forms of popular music (even pop) can have great hidden complexity.

Wait, What? How did you arrive at ‘classical is undoubtedly more complex in formal structure’?

Rule 303 said:

Bubblecar said:

All music can be reduced to mathematics, in regard to its structure. It’s just that the mathematics of classical music is usually more complex than that of pop music.

Not sure I would agree with this assertion, Car. I don’t see how the mathematics would be any different between the two forms.

It might depend on the layers of instruments used

Something I found amusing in the latest Star Trek was a nod to the snobbery of music in the future which is either classical or some awful folk type music, instead they played the Beastie Boys and referred to its as classical music.

Cymek said:

Something I found amusing in the latest Star Trek was a nod to the snobbery of music in the future which is either classical or some awful folk type music, instead they played the Beastie Boys and referred to its as classical music.

The latest latest Startrek? Because in the second new one they had it as an alarm which I thought was a nice nod to to reboot.

Rule 303 said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Also, although classical is undoubtedly more complex in formal structure, all forms of popular music (even pop) can have great hidden complexity.

Wait, What? How did you arrive at ‘classical is undoubtedly more complex in formal structure’?

Just my assessment based on the music I am familiar with.

You could come up with some complexity measure, and check out a random selection from various genres if you wanted to.

AwesomeO said:

Cymek said:

Something I found amusing in the latest Star Trek was a nod to the snobbery of music in the future which is either classical or some awful folk type music, instead they played the Beastie Boys and referred to its as classical music.

The latest latest Startrek? Because in the second new one they had it as an alarm which I thought was a nice nod to to reboot.

Yes Star Trek Beyond

Technical metal is very complex often using classical type music

The Rev Dodgson said:

You could come up with some complexity measure, and check out a random selection from various genres if you wanted to.

Yeah, broad statements about ‘complexity’ could be construed as the result of very simplistic analysis unless you had some way to substantiate them.

Rule 303 said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You could come up with some complexity measure, and check out a random selection from various genres if you wanted to.

Yeah, broad statements about ‘complexity’ could be construed as the result of very simplistic analysis unless you had some way to substantiate them.

Well I didn’t claim to have done a detailed analysis, or to be making any sort of profound statement for that matter.

Taking all forms of music overall, it seems obvious to me that classical music is on average way more complex in formal structure than popular music.

But if you want to do (or find) a proper study, go ahead. I’ll be interested in your findings.

Rule 303 said:

Bubblecar said:

All music can be reduced to mathematics, in regard to its structure. It’s just that the mathematics of classical music is usually more complex than that of pop music.

Not sure I would agree with this assertion, Car. I don’t see how the mathematics would be any different between the two forms.

It’s all simple arithmetic, but the more complex the music, the more complex the graphs.

>Taking all forms of music overall, it seems obvious to me that classical music is on average way more complex in formal structure than popular music.

The musical resources used by classical composers are very much wider than those employed in popular music, in terms of both numbers and variety of musicians and their technical expertise, and classical composers tend to make very full use of what’s available to them, in a much more imaginative and inventive way than we generally expect of pop musicians.

No doubt it is all a rich tapestry but classical music can, fairly precisely, be transcribed using standard notation. If I hand two good orchestras the sheets for Ronda alla Turca, I would expect to hear two substantially similar performances. Not identical, of course.

Try that with Hendrix’s guitar in All Along The Watchtower. A good guitarist, having heard it, could try to imitate it but I could not possibly transcribe the sound on paper with a few marks. So which is more complex?

dv said:

No doubt it is all a rich tapestry but classical music can, fairly precisely, be transcribed using standard notation. If I hand two good orchestras the sheets for Ronda alla Turca, I would expect to hear two substantially similar performances. Not identical, of course.

Try that with Hendrix’s guitar in All Along The Watchtower. A good guitarist, having heard it, could try to imitate it but I could not possibly transcribe the sound on paper with a few marks. So which is more complex?

You could certainly write Hendrix’s guitar easily enough, as with any solo instrument, to the degree of detail you thought was adequate. The actual performance would then be dependent on the whims of the performer. The same is true of much classical music.

ACDC is classical culture my daughters understand this as they have reached adulthood. I enjoy the classical musice of Mozart as well but I certainly would never exclude ACDC from a cultural experience of the evolution of rock and roll! Who Made Who!

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

No doubt it is all a rich tapestry but classical music can, fairly precisely, be transcribed using standard notation. If I hand two good orchestras the sheets for Ronda alla Turca, I would expect to hear two substantially similar performances. Not identical, of course.

Try that with Hendrix’s guitar in All Along The Watchtower. A good guitarist, having heard it, could try to imitate it but I could not possibly transcribe the sound on paper with a few marks. So which is more complex?

You could certainly write Hendrix’s guitar easily enough, as with any solo instrument, to the degree of detail you thought was adequate. The actual performance would then be dependent on the whims of the performer. The same is true of much classical music.

The Hendrix guitar notation would of course need to specify which feedback filters were used etc. A lot of the final sound is more the work of the amplifier than the musician.

Bubblecar said:

>Taking all forms of music overall, it seems obvious to me that classical music is on average way more complex in formal structure than popular music.

The musical resources used by classical composers are very much wider than those employed in popular music, in terms of both numbers and variety of musicians and their technical expertise, and classical composers tend to make very full use of what’s available to them, in a much more imaginative and inventive way than we generally expect of pop musicians.

Putting aside for a moment that I think the claims of greater expertise and complexity in the playing of the instruments or arrangement of the music are tenuous, if one considers the many aspects of modern musical performance and production to be part of this ‘complexity’, classical music is child’s play compared to modern.

>the claims of greater expertise and complexity in the playing of the instruments or arrangement of the music are tenuous

Um, no. The years of very hard work required to become a professional classical musician are not a matter of whistling dixie :)

>classical music is child’s play compared to modern

What do you mean by “modern”?

The most complex music today is still created by composers and musicians working in the tradition of Western classical expertise.

I’ve listened to some modern classical music, it’s crap.
It’s like trying to make sense of a Jackson Pollock painting that’s been hung upside down.

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ve listened to some modern classical music, it’s crap.
It’s like trying to make sense of a Jackson Pollock painting that’s been hung upside down.

There’s a huge variety of “modern classical” music out there, from easy toe-tapping stuff to the “squeaky wheel” extremes of postwar serialism.

If anything, many of today’s classical composers tend to err on the side of being “approachable”.

Bubblecar said:

The Hendrix guitar notation would of course need to specify which feedback filters were used etc. A lot of the final sound is more the work of the amplifier than the musician.

You don’t see the amplifier as being part of the instrument? Your own statement above suggests there’s a lot more to it than just sound reinforcement, and thus would seem to be contradicting itself.

Rule 303 said:

Bubblecar said:

The Hendrix guitar notation would of course need to specify which feedback filters were used etc. A lot of the final sound is more the work of the amplifier than the musician.

You don’t see the amplifier as being part of the instrument? Your own statement above suggests there’s a lot more to it than just sound reinforcement, and thus would seem to be contradicting itself.

The amplifier is part of the instrument, but it’s just a matter of tweaking knobs etc. The resulting sound may objectively be complex, but doesn’t rely on complex musicianship skills.

Bubblecar said:

Um, no. The years of very hard work required to become a professional classical musician are not a matter of whistling dixie :)

The years of hard work required to become a professional musician of any style are significant. How you could distinguish between the time and effort required between different styles I don’t know.

Bubblecar said:

What do you mean by “modern”?

I am going to resist the temptation to say ‘What do you mean by ‘pop?’ and suggest ‘post-orchestral’. Does that work for you?

Bubblecar said:

The most complex music today is still created by composers and musicians working in the tradition of Western classical expertise.

Clearly, I don’t think that’s true.

Trance music is quite complex, in effect using an infinite variety of virtual instruments, rather than just the dozens you would see in a classical orchestra.

Which is not to suggest that Hendrix wasn’t a good and talented electric guitarist in the context of the music he played – he obviously was. But he didn’t have to practise for years in a conservatory to achieve that.

Bubblecar said:

The amplifier is part of the instrument, but it’s just a matter of tweaking knobs etc. The resulting sound may objectively be complex, but doesn’t rely on complex musicianship skills.

Oh I’m sure there’s a lot more to it than that…

Anyway, I’m taking leave of this debate to make some dinner, and relax with some fine music :)

Might peep in later.

Bubblecar said:

Which is not to suggest that Hendrix wasn’t a good and talented electric guitarist in the context of the music he played – he obviously was. But he didn’t have to practise for years in a conservatory to achieve that.

What a very odd thing to say. It wasn’t a conservatory he’d been practicing in but to get to the level where he could play like that, he’d been practicing the guitar for over a decade.

dv said:

Trance music is quite complex, in effect using an infinite variety of virtual instruments, rather than just the dozens you would see in a classical orchestra.

Indeed, it’s often the case that those ‘dozens’ are playing in unison, the numbers are only required for volume, such that a 76-piece orchestra might only be playing 5 separate lines at any given point.

dv said:

Trance music is quite complex, in effect using an infinite variety of virtual instruments, rather than just the dozens you would see in a classical orchestra.

Yes but that doesn’t require much actual musical expertise in a physical sense. It’s more a matter of finding your way around very versatile software. And that kind of music is usually entirely notated, very insistently arithmetical.

I have known, and still do know, many musicians. I spent several years at a dedicated ‘Music’ high school. In my experience, nobody trains harder or practices more than rock musicians.

Rule 303 said:

I have known, and still do know, many musicians. I spent several years at a dedicated ‘Music’ high school. In my experience, nobody trains harder or practices more than rock musicians.

*suppresses giggle *

Anyway, back later :)

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

Which is not to suggest that Hendrix wasn’t a good and talented electric guitarist in the context of the music he played – he obviously was. But he didn’t have to practise for years in a conservatory to achieve that.

What a very odd thing to say. It wasn’t a conservatory he’d been practicing in but to get to the level where he could play like that, he’d been practicing the guitar for over a decade.

..starting on the Chitlin Circuit.. backing Isley Bros.. Little Richard etc.. mmm chitlin :)

Bubblecar said:

Rule 303 said:

I have known, and still do know, many musicians. I spent several years at a dedicated ‘Music’ high school. In my experience, nobody trains harder or practices more than rock musicians.

*suppresses giggle *

Anyway, back later :)

Does that usually work?

Perhaps one is too busy trying to remember the words to Thunderstruck :p

DGMW, I don’t have an opinion on which form of music is more complex overall. Different kinds of music have different kinds of complexity.

dv said:

DGMW, I don’t have an opinion on which form of music is more complex overall. Different kinds of music have different kinds of complexity.

I think it is more about the volume.
Lyall Watson (in the 70’s) did experiments and showed that plants tended to lay down flat if played heavy metal and grow erect when played classical music.

dv said:

DGMW, I don’t have an opinion on which form of music is more complex overall. Different kinds of music have different kinds of complexity.

according to the musicians and perhaps music directors and singer working on recreating the stage production and orchestral re-telling of Abba music alongside Bjorn they all suggested his music was far more complex to recreate. I do not know why aside from he wrote music that his wife could sing according to the wide range of her soprano voice. Which was difficult for other singers and music arrangers to follow.

dv said:

DGMW, I don’t have an opinion on which form of music is more complex overall. Different kinds of music have different kinds of complexity.

Can’t argue with that.. you need subtitles.

Here’s a thing featuring a glass armonica..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQemvyyJ—g

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

DGMW, I don’t have an opinion on which form of music is more complex overall. Different kinds of music have different kinds of complexity.

according to the musicians and perhaps music directors and singer working on recreating the stage production and orchestral re-telling of Abba music alongside Bjorn they all suggested his music was far more complex to recreate.

You mean, more complex than Benni’s?

dv said:

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

DGMW, I don’t have an opinion on which form of music is more complex overall. Different kinds of music have different kinds of complexity.

according to the musicians and perhaps music directors and singer working on recreating the stage production and orchestral re-telling of Abba music alongside Bjorn they all suggested his music was far more complex to recreate.

You mean, more complex than Benni’s?

both i guess in fairness they wrote and created music together in a little wooden hut in sweden

roughbarked said:

Lyall Watson (in the 70’s) did experiments and showed that plants tended to lay down flat if played heavy metal and grow erect when played classical music.

The Mythbusters did very careful testing and found no statistically significant effect, although the plants that got heavy metal at high volume did look healthier.

Part of the confusion might be that Bubblecars concept of modern pop is Noel Coward.

dv said:

Different kinds of music have different kinds of complexity.

It’s interesting that you say that because it was only a few days ago that I noted that the music of Van der Graaf Generator and the music of Gentle Giant had a different kind of complexity. Van der Graaf Generator derives its complexity through density produced by over-dubbing whereas Gentle Giant derives its complexity through complex interplay between the musicians.

AwesomeO said:

Part of the confusion might be that Bubblecars concept of modern pop is Noel Coward.

well miss carol liked Leornard Cohen this does not compute to me as a consideration for being music

I am unfamiliar with van der graf generator in this context

dv said:

I am unfamiliar with van der graf generator in this context

Van der Graaf Generator were contemporaries of Gentle Giant, and listed in the same sub-genre (Eclectic Prog) in ProgArchives.

KJW said:

dv said:

I am unfamiliar with van der graf generator in this context

Van der Graaf Generator were contemporaries of Gentle Giant, and listed in the same sub-genre (Eclectic Prog) in ProgArchives.

Raise you an Eddie Current Supression Ring

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=10A_-wnpnsY

AwesomeO said:

KJW said:

Van der Graaf Generator were contemporaries of Gentle Giant, and listed in the same sub-genre (Eclectic Prog) in ProgArchives.

Raise you an Eddie Current Supression Ring

Can I see with an Electric Light Orchestra?

KJW said:

AwesomeO said:

KJW said:

Van der Graaf Generator were contemporaries of Gentle Giant, and listed in the same sub-genre (Eclectic Prog) in ProgArchives.

Raise you an Eddie Current Supression Ring

Can I see with an Electric Light Orchestra?

Fold.

KJW said:

AwesomeO said:

KJW said:

Van der Graaf Generator were contemporaries of Gentle Giant, and listed in the same sub-genre (Eclectic Prog) in ProgArchives.

Raise you an Eddie Current Supression Ring

Can I see with an Electric Light Orchestra?

Have you got a High Pass filter?

Rule 303 said:

KJW said:

AwesomeO said:

Raise you an Eddie Current Supression Ring

Can I see with an Electric Light Orchestra?

Have you got a High Pass filter?

I think we might have a winner.

Rule 303 said:

KJW said:

Can I see with an Electric Light Orchestra?

Have you got a High Pass filter?

2 Bit Pie?

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ve listened to some modern classical music, it’s crap.
It’s like trying to make sense of a Jackson Pollock painting that’s been hung upside down.

that funny, gived me a chuckle

transition said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ve listened to some modern classical music, it’s crap.
It’s like trying to make sense of a Jackson Pollock painting that’s been hung upside down.

that funny, gived me a chuckle

I cannot listen to modern classical.

It sounds like they are tuning up before the real concert.

I need a ruling: is it proper to refer to contemporary orchestral music as classical?

dv said:

I need a ruling: is it proper to refer to contemporary orchestral music as classical?

One would normally take ‘Classical’ to mean the Classical Era – 1730 to 1820 – but people do use ‘Classical’ to use orchestral.

>I need a ruling: is it proper to refer to contemporary orchestral music as classical?

contemporary classical, or does that hurt too much

• contemporary classical

contradictory/paradoxical thread >>>