Sweet potato yield is some 293 MJ/ha/day.

Taking human calorific requirement to average 9000 kJ/day, this would mean 307 square metres of sweet potato farm would provide enough dietary energy for an adult person.

On this basis, Some 2.27 million sq km would be needed to provide enough dietary energy for humanity. This represents about 1.5% of earth’s land area. I’ve made no allowance for the fact that some people are children, as I have used the adult intake.

This area of sweet potatoes would provide about 227 million kg of protein per day, about 30 grams per person per day.

Recommended protein intake is 0.8 g per kg per day. Average adult body mass globally is about 70 kg, so something like 56 g of protein per day would be required. This leaves us with a 190 million kg daily protein shortfall.

Currently about 400 million kg of seafood is eaten per day, representing some 70 million kg of protein. So we would still be short about 120 million kg of protein (680 million kg of wet fish). I think we can take the non-protein component to be basically easy to come by, from agricultural waste.

Farmed fish have FIFO ratios of about 3, and the feed is about 50% higher in protein than the fish, so basically to get 120 million kg of protein out, 60 million kg of protein needs to go in. I am not sure how much unsaleable material is caught along with that 400 million kg mentioned above that could be used for making pellets for fish farms, but let us be pessimistic and say that we are using brine shrimp farms, that are not being forcefed protein, to feed the fish farms and it means the overall yield is 50% lower than the yield for the fish farms alone, so something like 5 tonnes per hectare per annum. This would require some 500000 sq km of ponds etc.

Alternatively if you wanted to give the oceans a break and completely cease the capture of wild seafood, for a while and produce all of your protein in fish farms, you would bump that up to about 790000 sq km.

OTOH this means I don’t need so much land for sweet potatoes…

Solving the simultaneous equations: 2.12 million sq km of sweet potatoes and 0.85 sq km of shrimp/fish farms provides the required protein and overall energy.

Be damned if I’m going to eat even one sweet potato…

furious said:

Be damned if I’m going to eat even one sweet potato…

Ooh, sweet potato chips though. Almost, but not quite as good as beetroot chips.

buffy said:

Ooh, sweet potato chips though. Almost, but not quite as good as beetroot chips.

I’ve heard of you hipster types.

A percentage of a farmed salmon’s diet is mackerel.
——

There is a trend to feed cheaper fish to more expensive fish…

So why would you want to condemn the entire world’s population to such a monotonous diet?

• There is a trend to feed cheaper fish to more expensive fish…

It makes sure all that mercury goodness is retained…

Bubblecar said:

So why would you want to condemn the entire world’s population to such a monotonous diet?

I was thinking that, but was too polite to mention it first :)

Throw in a few bits and bobs for other nutrients and you’re still looking at around 3 million sq km, some 2% of global land area.

Bubblecar said:

So why would you want to condemn the entire world’s population to such a monotonous diet?

Soon enough it will be Soylent Green for all.

Bubblecar said:

So why would you want to condemn the entire world’s population to such a monotonous diet?

A bit of privation is character-building.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bubblecar said:

So why would you want to condemn the entire world’s population to such a monotonous diet?

Soon enough it will be Soylent Green for all.

will there be dark meat and white meat varieties?

Bogsnorkler said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bubblecar said:

So why would you want to condemn the entire world’s population to such a monotonous diet?

Soon enough it will be Soylent Green for all.

will there be dark meat and white meat varieties?

you can grow water chestnuts with the tilapia.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

So why would you want to condemn the entire world’s population to such a monotonous diet?

A bit of privation is character-building.

Stupid and needless monoculture is not character-building.

sarahs mum said:

you can grow water chestnuts with the tilapia.

Well maybe, I don’t want people getting spoiled.

Sounds like my “3F” type diets, which were not supposed to be taken seriously.

The LOL diet: leaves, oranges, legumes.

The ROFLMAO diet: raisins, oranges, fish, leaves, moderate alcohol, olives.

The FOAD diet: fish, oranges, almonds, dates.

The WTF diet: walnuts, tomatoes, fish

Bubblecar said:

Sounds like my “3F” type diets, which were not supposed to be taken seriously.

The LOL diet: leaves, oranges, legumes.

The ROFLMAO diet: raisins, oranges, fish, leaves, moderate alcohol, olives.

The FOAD diet: fish, oranges, almonds, dates.

The WTF diet: walnuts, tomatoes, fish

The JESS Diet: just eat smaller serves

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

Sounds like my “3F” type diets, which were not supposed to be taken seriously.

The LOL diet: leaves, oranges, legumes.

The ROFLMAO diet: raisins, oranges, fish, leaves, moderate alcohol, olives.

The FOAD diet: fish, oranges, almonds, dates.

The WTF diet: walnuts, tomatoes, fish

The JESS Diet: just eat smaller serves

Or the SHIT diet: small helpings, intense taste

Those figures look to be in the right ballpark.

Last I checked, the highest yield crop was sugar cane.

For a plant to animal ratio, it’s very difficult to beat a ratio of 10 units of vegetable input to 1 unit of meat, sometimes 9 is possible. With pork you can get close to that ratio.

I’ve also been thinking about fat/oil as a food resource. Fats are more than just energy, they are the dominant source of hydrogen in food.

Sweet potatoes and tilapia is similar to the extremely common rice and tilapia, which you can find in several places around the world. The tilapia swim in the rice paddies, you can’t have tilapia swimming in among sweet potato plants.

Another variation is to have the water runoff from plant fields into ponds where shrimps are farmed, and then the shrimp waste is fed to the tilapia.

Singapore, in their basically fruitless* goal of food self sufficiency, has set a minimum of 34 tonnes of fish per hectare in their fish farms, which is pretty good.

*no pun intended

mollwollfumble said:

Sweet potatoes and tilapia is similar to the extremely common rice and tilapia, which you can find in several places around the world. The tilapia swim in the rice paddies, you can’t have tilapia swimming in among sweet potato plants.

Very good point

Monoculture on a large scale will sooner or later be hit by disease and/or pests. Eg. Irish famine.

One aspect of the algal biofuels project that I was in at CSIRO was combining algal biofuels with fish farming, including tilapia.

Sweet potato and Tilapia don’t make very good beer!

// 0.85 sq km of shrimp/fish farms

seems small

Alternatively though, perhaps we should lose some population.

SCIENCE said:

// 0.85 sq km of shrimp/fish farms

seems small

Alternatively though, perhaps we should lose some population.

but why?

Solving the simultaneous equations: 2.12 million sq km of sweet potatoes and 0.85 sq km of shrimp/fish farms provides the required protein and overall energy.

————

Have you tried the calculations substituting cheezbuger lols?

If we take average daily solar input to be 5.5 kWh per sq metre (which I think is going to be about right for the areas where sweet potatoes tend to grow), then solar input per hectare is 198000 MJ/day per hectare.

Which means the efficiency of sweet potatoes for this purpose is 0.15%. Seems a bit shit when you look at it like that.

Ian said:

Solving the simultaneous equations: 2.12 million sq km of sweet potatoes and 0.85 sq km of shrimp/fish farms provides the required protein and overall energy.

————

Have you tried the calculations substituting cheezbuger lols?

That should of course say 0.85 million sq km of shrimp/fish farms.

The calculations are so nonsensical that you might as well ask “how many pieces of string would you need to reach the moon.”

I should mention, one comment is “why sweet potatoes?”
I’ve already mentioned that rice goes better with tilapia (or carp) because of the growing of two crops on the same area of land.

Keep in mind the cost to grow food.

Cassava is the cheapest hood to grow, but contains cyanide that has to be removed before consumption. Let’s compare food prices in … (tomorrow, goodnight for now).

dv said:

Singapore, in their basically fruitless* goal of food self sufficiency, has set a minimum of 34 tonnes of fish per hectare in their fish farms, which is pretty good.

*no pun intended

Singapore’s population is about 5.7 million but their land territory is only 712 sq km (though this increases every year). They will need 319000 kg of protein per day, 51 TJ of dietary energy per day

Taking protein to be 18% of these fish, 34 tonnes per hectare per annum of wet fish = 1675 kg of protein per sq km per day, so they would need 190 sq km of fish farms to meet their protein needs.

Singapore’s entire land and territorial waters is only about 1700 sq km, but they were recently granted Pedra Branca. Maybe they should buy some more sand from Riau and build a whole new island to grow sweet potatoes.

If they wanted to use their fish farms to provide all of their protein (ignoring inputs) and they achieved this 34 tonnes of fish per hectare, and the average fish is 18% useful protein, then it would require

dv said:

Sweet potato yield is some 293 MJ/ha/day.

Taking human calorific requirement to average 9000 kJ/day, this would mean 307 square metres of sweet potato farm would provide enough dietary energy for an adult person.

On this basis, Some 2.27 million sq km would be needed to provide enough dietary energy for humanity. This represents about 1.5% of earth’s land area. I’ve made no allowance for the fact that some people are children, as I have used the adult intake.

This area of sweet potatoes would provide about 227 million kg of protein per day, about 30 grams per person per day.

Recommended protein intake is 0.8 g per kg per day. Average adult body mass globally is about 70 kg, so something like 56 g of protein per day would be required. This leaves us with a 190 million kg daily protein shortfall.

Currently about 400 million kg of seafood is eaten per day, representing some 70 million kg of protein. So we would still be short about 120 million kg of protein (680 million kg of wet fish). I think we can take the non-protein component to be basically easy to come by, from agricultural waste.

Farmed fish have FIFO ratios of about 3, and the feed is about 50% higher in protein than the fish, so basically to get 120 million kg of protein out, 60 million kg of protein needs to go in. I am not sure how much unsaleable material is caught along with that 400 million kg mentioned above that could be used for making pellets for fish farms, but let us be pessimistic and say that we are using brine shrimp farms, that are not being forcefed protein, to feed the fish farms and it means the overall yield is 50% lower than the yield for the fish farms alone, so something like 5 tonnes per hectare per annum. This would require some 500000 sq km of ponds etc.

Alternatively if you wanted to give the oceans a break and completely cease the capture of wild seafood, for a while and produce all of your protein in fish farms, you would bump that up to about 790000 sq km.

OTOH this means I don’t need so much land for sweet potatoes…

Solving the simultaneous equations: 2.12 million sq km of sweet potatoes and 0.85 sq km of shrimp/fish farms provides the required protein and overall energy.

What kind of fuckwit would only ever explore two viewpoints?

mollwollfumble said:

I should mention, one comment is “why sweet potatoes?”
I’ve already mentioned that rice goes better with tilapia (or carp) because of the growing of two crops on the same area of land.

And that’s a fine point indeed.

I picked sweet potatoes because it has the highest nutritional energy yield per hectare (among the complex carbohydrate crops … can’t live on sucrose!). I don’t have figures for the tilapia yield among rice fields.

This was an exercise to get some idea of how much land is needed to provide for food, really. If we wanted to minimise our agricultural footprint in order to perform reforestation and let the oceans replenish or whatever, how small a footprint would that be?

And the answer, using these params I’ve chosen, is: pretty small. Maybe 400 sq m per capita. A city with Sydney’s population could be fed by a square of land 40 km on the side, somewhat smaller than Sydney itself.

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

I should mention, one comment is “why sweet potatoes?”
I’ve already mentioned that rice goes better with tilapia (or carp) because of the growing of two crops on the same area of land.

And that’s a fine point indeed.

I picked sweet potatoes because it has the highest nutritional energy yield per hectare (among the complex carbohydrate crops … can’t live on sucrose!). I don’t have figures for the tilapia yield among rice fields.

This was an exercise to get some idea of how much land is needed to provide for food, really. If we wanted to minimise our agricultural footprint in order to perform reforestation and let the oceans replenish or whatever, how small a footprint would that be?

And the answer, using these params I’ve chosen, is: pretty small. Maybe 400 sq m per capita. A city with Sydney’s population could be fed by a square of land 40 km on the side, somewhat smaller than Sydney itself.

Neglect of the history of the land use is arrogance amplified.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

I should mention, one comment is “why sweet potatoes?”
I’ve already mentioned that rice goes better with tilapia (or carp) because of the growing of two crops on the same area of land.

And that’s a fine point indeed.

I picked sweet potatoes because it has the highest nutritional energy yield per hectare (among the complex carbohydrate crops … can’t live on sucrose!). I don’t have figures for the tilapia yield among rice fields.

This was an exercise to get some idea of how much land is needed to provide for food, really. If we wanted to minimise our agricultural footprint in order to perform reforestation and let the oceans replenish or whatever, how small a footprint would that be?

And the answer, using these params I’ve chosen, is: pretty small. Maybe 400 sq m per capita. A city with Sydney’s population could be fed by a square of land 40 km on the side, somewhat smaller than Sydney itself.

Neglect of the history of the land use is arrogance amplified.

And the history of the use of land neglect is arrogance amplified.

Hopefully the arrogance of amplified neglect of land use is history.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

And that’s a fine point indeed.

I picked sweet potatoes because it has the highest nutritional energy yield per hectare (among the complex carbohydrate crops … can’t live on sucrose!). I don’t have figures for the tilapia yield among rice fields.

This was an exercise to get some idea of how much land is needed to provide for food, really. If we wanted to minimise our agricultural footprint in order to perform reforestation and let the oceans replenish or whatever, how small a footprint would that be?

And the answer, using these params I’ve chosen, is: pretty small. Maybe 400 sq m per capita. A city with Sydney’s population could be fed by a square of land 40 km on the side, somewhat smaller than Sydney itself.

Neglect of the history of the land use is arrogance amplified.

And the history of the use of land neglect is arrogance amplified.

Hopefully the arrogance of amplified neglect of land use is history.

and your propsal is?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Neglect of the history of the land use is arrogance amplified.

And the history of the use of land neglect is arrogance amplified.

Hopefully the arrogance of amplified neglect of land use is history.

and your propsal is?

As explained above, I’m not making a proposal.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

And the history of the use of land neglect is arrogance amplified.

Hopefully the arrogance of amplified neglect of land use is history.

and your propsal is?

As explained above, I’m not making a proposal.

as I said: fuckwit.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

and your propsal is?

As explained above, I’m not making a proposal.

as I said: fuckwit.

Seems unkind.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

and your propsal is?

As explained above, I’m not making a proposal.

as I said: fuckwit.

LOL. You have no idea.

:-)

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

As explained above, I’m not making a proposal.

as I said: fuckwit.

Seems unkind.

nods

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

As explained above, I’m not making a proposal.

as I said: fuckwit.

Seems unkind.

You may think so and I kindly allow you this but it still stands.. For all the science swe think we have.. There is no way we can feed the machine we have created.

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

As explained above, I’m not making a proposal.

as I said: fuckwit.

LOL. You have no idea.

:-)

Yes I do. :)

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

as I said: fuckwit.

Seems unkind.

nods

I am kind if people need help/ in this instance, I see no such requirement.

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

as I said: fuckwit.

LOL. You have no idea.

:-)

you keep believing that.

Yes I do. :)

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

LOL. You have no idea.

:-)

you keep believing that.

Yes I do. :)

I know, yet I still know not why you sponsored me when I was down.. fer crysake. wouldn’t it have been easier to be rid of me?

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Seems unkind.

nods

I am kind if people need help/ in this instance, I see no such requirement.

I’m not sure everyone would agree with you that I don’t need help.

anyway, it is all about food values and ingestion/digestion and actual available nutrients provided as per used as needed and all that science.

Not about much else other than individuals.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

nods

I am kind if people need help/ in this instance, I see no such requirement.

I’m not sure everyone would agree with you that I don’t need help.

Rest assured. I’m confident that given time, you will get there.

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

Arts said:

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

he wasn’t interested in the water chestnuts.

Arts said:

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

Hence the tilapia

sarahs mum said:

Arts said:

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

he wasn’t interested in the water chestnuts.

Special occasions. Christmas and such.

Arts said:

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

One clever lass.

dv said:

Arts said:

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

Hence the tilapia

can we have sauce?

sarahs mum said:

Arts said:

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

he wasn’t interested in the water chestnuts.

This be true.. In Australia, the places we can do this are very limited.

• can we have sauce?

Batter?

dv said:

Arts said:

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

Hence the tilapia

ffs people aren’t ready for the brave new world, ever.

Arts said:

dv said:

Arts said:

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

Hence the tilapia

can we have sauce?

The sauce is also cursed.

Arts said:

dv said:

Arts said:

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

Hence the tilapia

can we have sauce?

Tilapia tastes awful. You’ll need lots of sauce.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Arts said:

we cannot live on sweet potato alone…

Hence the tilapia

ffs people aren’t ready for the brave new world, ever.

For instance, there is no reason why sweet potato shouldn’t be part of my life apart from the fact thta I’ve eaten it a mere few times and neve really cared about trying to propagate it.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Hence the tilapia

ffs people aren’t ready for the brave new world, ever.

For instance, there is no reason why sweet potato shouldn’t be part of my life apart from the fact thta I’ve eaten it a mere few times and neve really cared about trying to propagate it.

Fine, fine, we’ll go with mollwolfumble’s rice and tilapia idea.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Hence the tilapia

ffs people aren’t ready for the brave new world, ever.

For instance, there is no reason why sweet potato shouldn’t be part of my life apart from the fact that I’ve eaten it a mere few times and never really cared about trying to propagate it.

i will eat it if is on my plate but I’ve never bothered myself to put it there.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

ffs people aren’t ready for the brave new world, ever.

For instance, there is no reason why sweet potato shouldn’t be part of my life apart from the fact thta I’ve eaten it a mere few times and neve really cared about trying to propagate it.

Fine, fine, we’ll go with mollwolfumble’s rice and tilapia idea.

surely some bacon can fit in there too …

Arts said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

For instance, there is no reason why sweet potato shouldn’t be part of my life apart from the fact thta I’ve eaten it a mere few times and neve really cared about trying to propagate it.

Fine, fine, we’ll go with mollwolfumble’s rice and tilapia idea.

surely some bacon can fit in there too …

i’ll smoke you a kipper.

IMO sweet potato is way better than tilapia, roughbarked.

• i’ll smoke you a kipper.

That sounds Ace…

Bogsnorkler said:

Arts said:

dv said:

Fine, fine, we’ll go with mollwolfumble’s rice and tilapia idea.

surely some bacon can fit in there too …

i’ll smoke you a kipper.

Ah, the ethical dative.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

ffs people aren’t ready for the brave new world, ever.

For instance, there is no reason why sweet potato shouldn’t be part of my life apart from the fact thta I’ve eaten it a mere few times and neve really cared about trying to propagate it.

Fine, fine, we’ll go with mollwolfumble’s rice and tilapia idea.

Who gives a shit?

What you can eat is defined by circumstance.

roughbarked said:

Who gives a shit?

Well, given your vehemence …
You.

Arts said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

For instance, there is no reason why sweet potato shouldn’t be part of my life apart from the fact thta I’ve eaten it a mere few times and neve really cared about trying to propagate it.

Fine, fine, we’ll go with mollwolfumble’s rice and tilapia idea.

surely some bacon can fit in there too …

Only if you think you need it.

Bogsnorkler said:

Arts said:

dv said:

Fine, fine, we’ll go with mollwolfumble’s rice and tilapia idea.

surely some bacon can fit in there too …

i’ll smoke you a kipper.

I’ve seen some weird shyte go through bongs….

Bogsnorkler said:

Arts said:

dv said:

Fine, fine, we’ll go with mollwolfumble’s rice and tilapia idea.

surely some bacon can fit in there too …

i’ll smoke you a kipper.

I’ve seen some weird shyte go through bongs….

furious said:

• i’ll smoke you a kipper.

That sounds Ace…

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Who gives a shit?

Well, given your vehemence …
You.

ha ha.. giggle

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

dv said:

Fine, fine, we’ll go with mollwolfumble’s rice and tilapia idea.

surely some bacon can fit in there too …

Only if you think you need it.

and icecream… so we’d also need cows…

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

surely some bacon can fit in there too …

Only if you think you need it.

and icecream… so we’d also need cows…

it is all there because you can wish it.

• and icecream… so we’d also need cows…

I recall reading something about making “ice cream” from potatoes, so maybe not…

furious said:

• and icecream… so we’d also need cows…

I recall reading something about making “ice cream” from potatoes, so maybe not…

Aussie invents potato that melts like cheese and can be made into ice cream

Arts said:

furious said:

• and icecream… so we’d also need cows…

I recall reading something about making “ice cream” from potatoes, so maybe not…

actually potatoes would also give us Vodka… so i might get used to potato icecream…

what are the numbers up to now DV?

furious said:

Aussie invents potato that melts like cheese and can be made into ice cream

yeah, that guy was convincing

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

surely some bacon can fit in there too …

Only if you think you need it.

and icecream… so we’d also need cows…

You’ll love the new sweet potato dessert.

Arts said:

Arts said:

furious said:

• and icecream… so we’d also need cows…

I recall reading something about making “ice cream” from potatoes, so maybe not…

actually potatoes would also give us Vodka… so i might get used to potato icecream…

what are the numbers up to now DV?

2.
Tilapia and Potatoes.

Maybe water chestnuts if you’re good.

• Maybe water chestnuts if you’re good.

Wasn’t there talk of prawns earlier?

furious said:

• Maybe water chestnuts if you’re good.

Wasn’t there talk of prawns earlier?

The brine shrimp are to feed the tilapia.

dv said:

Arts said:

Arts said:

actually potatoes would also give us Vodka… so i might get used to potato icecream…

what are the numbers up to now DV?

2.
Tilapia and Potatoes.
hMaybe water chestnuts if you’re good.

watercress garnish ..

dv said:

Arts said:

Arts said:

actually potatoes would also give us Vodka… so i might get used to potato icecream…

what are the numbers up to now DV?

2.
Tilapia and Potatoes.

Maybe water chestnuts if you’re good.

well, good luck with your utopia…

Perhaps a few scientific papers are appropriate, given the forum

A review of global tilapia farming practices

Approaches to national fish breeding programs: pointers from a tilapia pilot study

Book Sweet Potato: An Untapped Food Resource

Sweet Potato: A Review of its Past, Present, and Future Role in Human Nutrition

kii said:

Arts said:

dv said:

Hence the tilapia

can we have sauce?

Tilapia tastes awful. You’ll need lots of sauce.

My experience eating tilapia in East Africa was the opposite of that. It was a most enjoyable fish.

Note that sweet potato leaves and stems are edible too, although the stems are coarse-textured. The leaves are fine as a replacement for spinach in both fry-ups and salads. We use them most days.

Michael V said:

Note that sweet potato leaves and stems are edible too, although the stems are coarse-textured. The leaves are fine as a replacement for spinach in both fry-ups and salads. We use them most days.

It gladdens my heart when people go out of their way to seek leafy stuff as food.

Michael V said:

Note that sweet potato leaves and stems are edible too, although the stems are coarse-textured. The leaves are fine as a replacement for spinach in both fry-ups and salads. We use them most days.

Indeed they are. And guinea pigs and rabbits love them.

So now we could go for a rice, tilapia, sweet potato, guinea pig and rabbit production system for DV’s dream.

With water chestnuts on Christmas day.

ruby said:

Michael V said:

Note that sweet potato leaves and stems are edible too, although the stems are coarse-textured. The leaves are fine as a replacement for spinach in both fry-ups and salads. We use them most days.

Indeed they are. And guinea pigs and rabbits love them.

So now we could go for a rice, tilapia, sweet potato, guinea pig and rabbit production system for DV’s dream.

With water chestnuts on Christmas day.

Mmmmm. Guinea pig and rabbit. Good thinking. We do need chilli and garlic and ginger added into the mix as well, (and salt).

:)

ruby said:

Michael V said:

Note that sweet potato leaves and stems are edible too, although the stems are coarse-textured. The leaves are fine as a replacement for spinach in both fry-ups and salads. We use them most days.

Indeed they are. And guinea pigs and rabbits love them.

So now we could go for a rice, tilapia, sweet potato, guinea pig and rabbit production system for DV’s dream.

With water chestnuts on Christmas day.

I approve of that. That’s a nice minimal ecosystem balance. Now, human excrement fertilises what?

Here’s what I was looking for.

Foodstuffs in US$ per kg. Starting with minerals.

0.003 Water
0.04 Crude oil – rich in organic nutrients, including sulphur.
0.065 Table salt
0.11 Cassava – first whole food
0.18 Corn
0.23 Wheat
0.25 Potato
0.41 Rice
0.45 Pumpkin
0.5 Shrimp – fist meat
0.72 Oranges
0.8 Milk
0.96 Bananas
1.4 Pork
2.5 Apples
2.5 Chicken
4.5 Grapes
4.92 Beef

Do you know where sweet potato fits on this list?

mollwollfumble said:

Foodstuffs in US$ per kg. Starting with minerals.

0.003 Water
0.04 Crude oil – rich in organic nutrients, including sulphur.
0.065 Table salt
0.11 Cassava – first whole food
0.18 Corn
0.23 Wheat
0.25 Potato
0.41 Rice
0.45 Pumpkin
0.5 Shrimp – fist meat
0.72 Oranges
0.8 Milk
0.96 Bananas
1.4 Pork
2.5 Apples
2.5 Chicken
4.5 Grapes
4.92 Beef

Do you know where sweet potato fits on this list?

In Australian dollars, one seller quotes
$1.50 per kg for imperfect purple sweet potatoes
$3 per kg for imperfect sweet potatoes

You may be interested in sweet potatoes 101/
eg.
There are hundreds of types of sweet potatoes ranging from white and mild to deep red and super sweet. The three most popular types in the USA are the Covington, O’Henry & Japanese.

How about eating your sweet potato then growing your protein source on the waste product-

Fish raised in sewerage

Given that the very best crop for producing dietary energy from solar energy has an efficiency of less than 0.2%, it does make me wonder how soon we’ll be at the point where complex carbs can be made using non-biological means more efficiently than the best biological means.

dv said:

Given that the very best crop for producing dietary energy from solar energy has an efficiency of less than 0.2%, it does make me wonder how soon we’ll be at the point where complex carbs can be made using non-biological means more efficiently than the best biological means.

I read that as “complex crabs”.

But it raises the question: could there be humanly useful food on some planet somewhere that was not produced by biological means?

• But it raises the question: could there be humanly useful food on some planet somewhere that was not produced by biological means?

Salt and water are useful…

Bubblecar said:

But it raises the question: could there be humanly useful food on some planet somewhere that was not produced by biological means?

Now, ethanol could be considered a humanly useful food inasmuch as the body can use it for energy. Ethanol has been detected off-earth.

Glycoaldehyde is an according-to-Hoyle carbohydrate and has been detected in space. You can eat it, it will taste sweet and be useful for your body in terms of energy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycolaldehyde
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/08/120829-sugar-space-planets-science-life/

>At this time, the most consistent formation reactions seems to be on the surface of ice in cosmic dust.

Icing sugar.

>On October 23, 2015, researchers at the Paris Observatory announced the discovery of glycolaldehyde and ethyl alcohol on Comet Lovejoy, the first such identification of these substances in a comet

Sweet sherry in space.

video about a man who spied on his phone’s thief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpN9NzO4Mo8

imagine the menu calls under the DV regime

Bubblecar – dinner tonight will be smoked tilapia and lightly baked sweet potato.. for supper I think I’ll have sweet potato grilled with some sweet potato chips.

Buffy – we are having tilapia with sweet potato mashed into it.. some cream would be nice…

Kii – tilapia and potato that’s sweet for us

Stumpy – Sweet potato and Tilapia and some sweet potato

ruby – can’t wait until Christmas

Arts said:

imagine the menu calls under the DV regime

Bubblecar – dinner tonight will be smoked tilapia and lightly baked sweet potato.. for supper I think I’ll have sweet potato grilled with some sweet potato chips.

Buffy – we are having tilapia with sweet potato mashed into it.. some cream would be nice…

Kii – tilapia and potato that’s sweet for us

Stumpy – Sweet potato and Tilapia and some sweet potato

ruby – can’t wait until Christmas

sweet otato is on the ‘not allowed’ list here

Arts said:

imagine the menu calls under the DV regime

Bubblecar – dinner tonight will be smoked tilapia and lightly baked sweet potato.. for supper I think I’ll have sweet potato grilled with some sweet potato chips.

Buffy – we are having tilapia with sweet potato mashed into it.. some cream would be nice…

Kii – tilapia and potato that’s sweet for us

Stumpy – Sweet potato and Tilapia and some sweet potato

ruby – can’t wait until Christmas

supermarket pizza, sweet potato and tilapia flavour.

stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

imagine the menu calls under the DV regime

Bubblecar – dinner tonight will be smoked tilapia and lightly baked sweet potato.. for supper I think I’ll have sweet potato grilled with some sweet potato chips.

Buffy – we are having tilapia with sweet potato mashed into it.. some cream would be nice…

Kii – tilapia and potato that’s sweet for us

Stumpy – Sweet potato and Tilapia and some sweet potato

ruby – can’t wait until Christmas

sweet otato is on the ‘not allowed’ list here

you will eat what DV tells you to eat

Arts said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

imagine the menu calls under the DV regime

Bubblecar – dinner tonight will be smoked tilapia and lightly baked sweet potato.. for supper I think I’ll have sweet potato grilled with some sweet potato chips.

Buffy – we are having tilapia with sweet potato mashed into it.. some cream would be nice…

Kii – tilapia and potato that’s sweet for us

Stumpy – Sweet potato and Tilapia and some sweet potato

ruby – can’t wait until Christmas

sweet otato is on the ‘not allowed’ list here

you will eat what DV tells you to eat

nah, too much phosphate, regular spuds I can get away with after a good soaking, sweet potatos no good

Arts said:

imagine the menu calls under the DV regime

Bubblecar – dinner tonight will be smoked tilapia and lightly baked sweet potato.. for supper I think I’ll have sweet potato grilled with some sweet potato chips.

Buffy – we are having tilapia with sweet potato mashed into it.. some cream would be nice…

Kii – tilapia and potato that’s sweet for us

Stumpy – Sweet potato and Tilapia and some sweet potato

ruby – can’t wait until Christmas

kii – I fucken hate tilapia.

stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

sweet otato is on the ‘not allowed’ list here

you will eat what DV tells you to eat

nah, too much phosphate, regular spuds I can get away with after a good soaking, sweet potatos no good

I soak sweet potatoes for two solid days and then throw them into the compost bin.

dv said:

video about a man who spied on his phone’s thief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpN9NzO4Mo8

thanks, that was really interesting

sibeen said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

you will eat what DV tells you to eat

nah, too much phosphate, regular spuds I can get away with after a good soaking, sweet potatos no good

I soak sweet potatoes for two solid days and then throw them into the compost bin.

I like them roasted

Arts said:

dv said:

video about a man who spied on his phone’s thief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpN9NzO4Mo8

thanks, that was really interesting

Hillsong Church Amsterdam – WTF?

Mashed with a teaspoon of dry chicken stock and cream. Very yum. We use the orange ones.

You can eat the leaves of sweet potato, they aren’t overly tasty though

the naysayers didn’t mount a very good argument.

Bogsnorkler said:

the naysayers didn’t mount a very good argument.

IKR

We’ll go ahead then.

dv said:

Bogsnorkler said:

the naysayers didn’t mount a very good argument.

IKR

We’ll go ahead then.

onwards and upwards.

Bogsnorkler said:

the naysayers didn’t mount a very good argument.

apart from the fact that we don’t want to eat just sweet potato and tilapia

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

the naysayers didn’t mount a very good argument.

apart from the fact that we don’t want to eat just sweet potato and tilapia

yes, but that wasn’t actually the argument.

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

the naysayers didn’t mount a very good argument.

apart from the fact that we don’t want to eat just sweet potato and tilapia

I’d actually wouldn’t mind some sweet potato and tilapia just now, and I don’t like either.

Bloody gastro. I’ve had two bits of toast with vegemite, no butter, so far today.

sibeen said:

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

the naysayers didn’t mount a very good argument.

apart from the fact that we don’t want to eat just sweet potato and tilapia

I’d actually wouldn’t mind some sweet potato and tilapia just now, and I don’t like either.

Bloody gastro. I’ve had two bits of toast with vegemite, no butter, so far today.

flat beer lemonade

sibeen said:

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

the naysayers didn’t mount a very good argument.

apart from the fact that we don’t want to eat just sweet potato and tilapia

I’d actually wouldn’t mind some sweet potato and tilapia just now, and I don’t like either.

Bloody gastro. I’ve had two bits of toast with vegemite, no butter, so far today.

drink plenty of water

Bogsnorkler said:

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

the naysayers didn’t mount a very good argument.

apart from the fact that we don’t want to eat just sweet potato and tilapia

yes, but that wasn’t actually the argument.

Which naysayers and what were they mounting then?

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Arts said:

apart from the fact that we don’t want to eat just sweet potato and tilapia

yes, but that wasn’t actually the argument.

Which naysayers and what were they mounting then?

well, take 90% of the responses out, they deal with not liking the products. Moll and SM make positive contributions, which doesn’t mean support you realise. the rest don’t seem to understand the argument.

it’s not really an argument at all… he’s just pointing out an efficiency that could be achieved… but aint nobody got time fo dat

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

yes, but that wasn’t actually the argument.

Which naysayers and what were they mounting then?

well, take 90% of the responses out, they deal with not liking the products. Moll and SM make positive contributions, which doesn’t mean support you realise. the rest don’t seem to understand the argument.

I see.

Arts said:

it’s not really an argument at all… he’s just pointing out an efficiency that could be achieved… but aint nobody got time fo dat

there does come a time for everything..

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Which naysayers and what were they mounting then?

well, take 90% of the responses out, they deal with not liking the products. Moll and SM make positive contributions, which doesn’t mean support you realise. the rest don’t seem to understand the argument.

I see.

If it is any consolation I don’t want to eat tilapia either. :)

Arts said:

it’s not really an argument at all… he’s just pointing out an efficiency that could be achieved… but aint nobody got time fo dat

it is an argument, in the debate sense. these are the figures, show me they’re wrong, show me better ones. not “i don’t like kumera”.

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

the naysayers didn’t mount a very good argument.

apart from the fact that we don’t want to eat just sweet potato and tilapia

Oh and it’s all about you!

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

well, take 90% of the responses out, they deal with not liking the products. Moll and SM make positive contributions, which doesn’t mean support you realise. the rest don’t seem to understand the argument.

I see.

If it is any consolation I don’t want to eat tilapia either. :)

So you’d be up for the odd bit of sweet potato then?

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

I see.

If it is any consolation I don’t want to eat tilapia either. :)

So you’d be up for the odd bit of sweet potato then?

Sure. I prefer the purple ones that are a bit stringy over the kumara type. But I really want them with baked sheep or cow. And gravy.

Bogsnorkler said:

Arts said:

it’s not really an argument at all… he’s just pointing out an efficiency that could be achieved… but aint nobody got time fo dat

it is an argument, in the debate sense. these are the figures, show me they’re wrong, show me better ones. not “i don’t like kumera”.

you know how this forum runs, right?

dv said:

Sweet potato yield is some 293 MJ/ha/day.

Taking human calorific requirement to average 9000 kJ/day, this would mean 307 square metres of sweet potato farm would provide enough dietary energy for an adult person.

On this basis, Some 2.27 million sq km would be needed to provide enough dietary energy for humanity. This represents about 1.5% of earth’s land area. I’ve made no allowance for the fact that some people are children, as I have used the adult intake.

This area of sweet potatoes would provide about 227 million kg of protein per day, about 30 grams per person per day.

Recommended protein intake is 0.8 g per kg per day. Average adult body mass globally is about 70 kg, so something like 56 g of protein per day would be required. This leaves us with a 190 million kg daily protein shortfall.

Currently about 400 million kg of seafood is eaten per day, representing some 70 million kg of protein. So we would still be short about 120 million kg of protein (680 million kg of wet fish). I think we can take the non-protein component to be basically easy to come by, from agricultural waste.

Farmed fish have FIFO ratios of about 3, and the feed is about 50% higher in protein than the fish, so basically to get 120 million kg of protein out, 60 million kg of protein needs to go in. I am not sure how much unsaleable material is caught along with that 400 million kg mentioned above that could be used for making pellets for fish farms, but let us be pessimistic and say that we are using brine shrimp farms, that are not being forcefed protein, to feed the fish farms and it means the overall yield is 50% lower than the yield for the fish farms alone, so something like 5 tonnes per hectare per annum. This would require some 500000 sq km of ponds etc.

Alternatively if you wanted to give the oceans a break and completely cease the capture of wild seafood, for a while and produce all of your protein in fish farms, you would bump that up to about 790000 sq km.

OTOH this means I don’t need so much land for sweet potatoes…

Solving the simultaneous equations: 2.12 million sq km of sweet potatoes and 0.85 sq km of shrimp/fish farms provides the required protein and overall energy.

These are the figures presented and I have no desire to argue that they are not.

I’m just wondering why protein is all that humans require.

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Arts said:

it’s not really an argument at all… he’s just pointing out an efficiency that could be achieved… but aint nobody got time fo dat

it is an argument, in the debate sense. these are the figures, show me they’re wrong, show me better ones. not “i don’t like kumera”.

you know how this forum runs, right?

i’m a webel.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Sweet potato yield is some 293 MJ/ha/day.

Taking human calorific requirement to average 9000 kJ/day, this would mean 307 square metres of sweet potato farm would provide enough dietary energy for an adult person.

On this basis, Some 2.27 million sq km would be needed to provide enough dietary energy for humanity. This represents about 1.5% of earth’s land area. I’ve made no allowance for the fact that some people are children, as I have used the adult intake.

This area of sweet potatoes would provide about 227 million kg of protein per day, about 30 grams per person per day.

Recommended protein intake is 0.8 g per kg per day. Average adult body mass globally is about 70 kg, so something like 56 g of protein per day would be required. This leaves us with a 190 million kg daily protein shortfall.

Currently about 400 million kg of seafood is eaten per day, representing some 70 million kg of protein. So we would still be short about 120 million kg of protein (680 million kg of wet fish). I think we can take the non-protein component to be basically easy to come by, from agricultural waste.

Farmed fish have FIFO ratios of about 3, and the feed is about 50% higher in protein than the fish, so basically to get 120 million kg of protein out, 60 million kg of protein needs to go in. I am not sure how much unsaleable material is caught along with that 400 million kg mentioned above that could be used for making pellets for fish farms, but let us be pessimistic and say that we are using brine shrimp farms, that are not being forcefed protein, to feed the fish farms and it means the overall yield is 50% lower than the yield for the fish farms alone, so something like 5 tonnes per hectare per annum. This would require some 500000 sq km of ponds etc.

Alternatively if you wanted to give the oceans a break and completely cease the capture of wild seafood, for a while and produce all of your protein in fish farms, you would bump that up to about 790000 sq km.

OTOH this means I don’t need so much land for sweet potatoes…

Solving the simultaneous equations: 2.12 million sq km of sweet potatoes and 0.85 sq km of shrimp/fish farms provides the required protein and overall energy.

These are the figures presented and I have no desire to argue that they are not.

I’m just wondering why protein is all that humans require.

Um, if you read carefully you’ll notice that protein is not the only thing I’ve mentioned…

Of course, if you read carefully, I’ll fall off my chair, so it’s a mixed blessing.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Sweet potato yield is some 293 MJ/ha/day.

Taking human calorific requirement to average 9000 kJ/day, this would mean 307 square metres of sweet potato farm would provide enough dietary energy for an adult person.

On this basis, Some 2.27 million sq km would be needed to provide enough dietary energy for humanity. This represents about 1.5% of earth’s land area. I’ve made no allowance for the fact that some people are children, as I have used the adult intake.

This area of sweet potatoes would provide about 227 million kg of protein per day, about 30 grams per person per day.

Recommended protein intake is 0.8 g per kg per day. Average adult body mass globally is about 70 kg, so something like 56 g of protein per day would be required. This leaves us with a 190 million kg daily protein shortfall.

Currently about 400 million kg of seafood is eaten per day, representing some 70 million kg of protein. So we would still be short about 120 million kg of protein (680 million kg of wet fish). I think we can take the non-protein component to be basically easy to come by, from agricultural waste.

Farmed fish have FIFO ratios of about 3, and the feed is about 50% higher in protein than the fish, so basically to get 120 million kg of protein out, 60 million kg of protein needs to go in. I am not sure how much unsaleable material is caught along with that 400 million kg mentioned above that could be used for making pellets for fish farms, but let us be pessimistic and say that we are using brine shrimp farms, that are not being forcefed protein, to feed the fish farms and it means the overall yield is 50% lower than the yield for the fish farms alone, so something like 5 tonnes per hectare per annum. This would require some 500000 sq km of ponds etc.

Alternatively if you wanted to give the oceans a break and completely cease the capture of wild seafood, for a while and produce all of your protein in fish farms, you would bump that up to about 790000 sq km.

OTOH this means I don’t need so much land for sweet potatoes…

Solving the simultaneous equations: 2.12 million sq km of sweet potatoes and 0.85 sq km of shrimp/fish farms provides the required protein and overall energy.

These are the figures presented and I have no desire to argue that they are not.

I’m just wondering why protein is all that humans require.

Um, if you read carefully you’ll notice that protein is not the only thing I’ve mentioned…

Of course, if you read carefully, I’ll fall off my chair, so it’s a mixed blessing.

just don’t land on your arm

This is still going? Go on then, give us some fish and chips…

furious said:

This is still going?

Not really

furious said:

This is still going? Go on then, give us some fish and chips…

need oil.

• need oil.

Are these air fryers any good?

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Sweet potato yield is some 293 MJ/ha/day.

Taking human calorific requirement to average 9000 kJ/day, this would mean 307 square metres of sweet potato farm would provide enough dietary energy for an adult person.

On this basis, Some 2.27 million sq km would be needed to provide enough dietary energy for humanity. This represents about 1.5% of earth’s land area. I’ve made no allowance for the fact that some people are children, as I have used the adult intake.

This area of sweet potatoes would provide about 227 million kg of protein per day, about 30 grams per person per day.

Recommended protein intake is 0.8 g per kg per day. Average adult body mass globally is about 70 kg, so something like 56 g of protein per day would be required. This leaves us with a 190 million kg daily protein shortfall.

Currently about 400 million kg of seafood is eaten per day, representing some 70 million kg of protein. So we would still be short about 120 million kg of protein (680 million kg of wet fish). I think we can take the non-protein component to be basically easy to come by, from agricultural waste.

Farmed fish have FIFO ratios of about 3, and the feed is about 50% higher in protein than the fish, so basically to get 120 million kg of protein out, 60 million kg of protein needs to go in. I am not sure how much unsaleable material is caught along with that 400 million kg mentioned above that could be used for making pellets for fish farms, but let us be pessimistic and say that we are using brine shrimp farms, that are not being forcefed protein, to feed the fish farms and it means the overall yield is 50% lower than the yield for the fish farms alone, so something like 5 tonnes per hectare per annum. This would require some 500000 sq km of ponds etc.

Alternatively if you wanted to give the oceans a break and completely cease the capture of wild seafood, for a while and produce all of your protein in fish farms, you would bump that up to about 790000 sq km.

OTOH this means I don’t need so much land for sweet potatoes…

Solving the simultaneous equations: 2.12 million sq km of sweet potatoes and 0.85 sq km of shrimp/fish farms provides the required protein and overall energy.

These are the figures presented and I have no desire to argue that they are not.

I’m just wondering why protein is all that humans require.

Um, if you read carefully you’ll notice that protein is not the only thing I’ve mentioned…

Of course, if you read carefully, I’ll fall off my chair, so it’s a mixed blessing.

I did read it a couple of times and any mention of stuff that wasn’t protein was about energy.

furious said:

• need oil.

Are these air fryers any good?

Sure, we had a bunch of fried air yesterday. Light but crunchy.

sarahs mum said:

furious said:

This is still going? Go on then, give us some fish and chips…

need oil.

Plenty fish oil in the argument.

• Sure, we had a bunch of fried air yesterday. Light but crunchy.

Funny guy…

furious said:

• need oil.

Are these air fryers any good?

Have you tasted fried air?

furious said:

• Sure, we had a bunch of fried air yesterday. Light but crunchy.

Funny guy…

oh yeah. Adding roughie to the act was a good move.

dv said:

Throw in a few bits and bobs for other nutrients and you’re still looking at around 3 million sq km, some 2% of global land area.

dv said:

furious said:

• Sure, we had a bunch of fried air yesterday. Light but crunchy.

Funny guy…

oh yeah. Adding roughie to the act was a good move.

Ke?

dv said:

dv said:

Throw in a few bits and bobs for other nutrients and you’re still looking at around 3 million sq km, some 2% of global land area.

:) and the fibre?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

dv said:

Throw in a few bits and bobs for other nutrients and you’re still looking at around 3 million sq km, some 2% of global land area.

:) and the fibre?

Sweet potato is 3% dietary fibre

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

:) and the fibre?

Sweet potato is 3% dietary fibre

I know but how much is in tilapia?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

:) and the fibre?

Sweet potato is 3% dietary fibre

I know but how much is in tilapia?

There’s no significant amount in the fillet.

I guess if you were despo you could grind the bones…

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Sweet potato is 3% dietary fibre

I know but how much is in tilapia?

There’s no significant amount in the fillet.

I guess if you were despo you could grind the bones…

:)

Arts said:

imagine the menu calls under the DV regime

Bubblecar – dinner tonight will be smoked tilapia and lightly baked sweet potato.. for supper I think I’ll have sweet potato grilled with some sweet potato chips.

Buffy – we are having tilapia with sweet potato mashed into it.. some cream would be nice…

Kii – tilapia and potato that’s sweet for us

Stumpy – Sweet potato and Tilapia and some sweet potato

ruby – can’t wait until Christmas

mollwollfumble – canned tilapia with vinegar, sweet potato raw
mrs m – lightly grilled tilapia, mashed sweet potato, and microwaved sweet potato leaves

dv said:

Sweet potato is 3% dietary fibre

I guess if you were despo you could grind the bones…

Yes!

And don’t forget the liver.

Liver provides all sorts of vitamins, and bones are necessary for minerals.One of the serious problems with modern day diets is a lack of offal and a lack of bones.