envy’s fairly much universal across the species, and’s probably one of the workhorses of behaviour motivators and behaviour controls

can anybody prove this wrong

knocks off bails

Drinks gentlemen.

transition said:

envy’s fairly much universal across the species, and’s probably one of the workhorses of behaviour motivators and behaviour controls

can anybody prove this wrong

you want to prove a negative?

haha.

transition said:

envy’s fairly much universal across the species, and’s probably one of the workhorses of behaviour motivators and behaviour controls

can anybody prove this wrong

There’s something into book “Dune” about this. From imperfect memory it goes like:

“Everybody knows that the greatest threat to any individual is the young of its own species”.

Envy can certainly be proved in chimpanzees.
I haven’t seen proof that it occurs in other species, but it ought to be easy enough to check using standard psychological tests. I’ll check the web.

There seems to be only a single research article, anywhere, on the presence of envy in non-primate animals, and it’s a subjective, survey-based article, not one based on objective testing.

Thios is the article: “COGNITION AND EMOTION, 2008, 22 (1), 3
20”
http://img2.timg.co.il/forums/1_152599796.pdf
“Secondary emotions in non-primate species? Behavioural reports and subjective claims by animal owners”
“A defining characteristic of primary emotions is that they occur in wide variety of species. Secondary emotions are thought to be restricted to humans and other primates”
“We surveyed 907 owners about emotions that they had observed in their animal”.
“Jealousy was reported at very high levels (81% of dogs and 79% of horses), which was surprising as jealousy is generally defined as a secondary emotion”.
“Buck (1999) makes an explicit case for the evolutionary origin of what he terms social emotions, such as pride/arrogance and envy/jealousy, and moral emotions such as contempt; these emotions are regarded as basic to all social interaction and Buck predicts would be seen across a range of species”.

> can anybody prove this wrong

Here we go.

“There is much more controversy and confusion over what are called the “secondary emotions” in animals, which are generally argued to exist only in humans, and are believed to require complex cognitive abilities often uniquely attributed to us, including self awareness and what’s called “theory of mind.” These emotions, like jealousy, ….”

Envy would cause a number of wars, envy of a neighbours land and resources

Jealously could have evolved as a survival emotion, act on jealously and you make get the food and water from a rival and live and they die.

Cymek said:

Envy would cause a number of wars, envy of a neighbours land and resources

Or ass.

Social inequity aversion or a sense of fairness has been demonstrated in experiments was with capuchin monkeys.

Ian said:

Social inequity aversion or a sense of fairness has been demonstrated in experiments was with capuchin monkeys.

Did they select the loudest and most obnoxious monkey to lead them to greater social equality?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Ian said:

Social inequity aversion or a sense of fairness has been demonstrated in experiments was with capuchin monkeys.

Did they select the loudest and most obnoxious monkey to lead them to greater social equality?

yes, it was a shitgibbon that got that job.

On another emotion.

Anger is supposed to be one of the “primary emotions” but many animal species have never been observed to get angry.

mollwollfumble said:

On another emotion.

Anger is supposed to be one of the “primary emotions” but many animal species have never been observed to get angry.

The Hulkasaurus being an exception

Cymek said:

Envy would cause a number of wars, envy of a neighbours land and resources

Yes. But neither anger nor jealously is a necessary prerequisite for war. War can be the result of cold calculation.

mollwollfumble said:

Cymek said:

Envy would cause a number of wars, envy of a neighbours land and resources

Yes. But neither anger nor jealously is a necessary prerequisite for war. War can be the result of cold calculation.

It can also be as a result of obligation or defense.

mollwollfumble said:

Cymek said:

Envy would cause a number of wars, envy of a neighbours land and resources

Yes. But neither anger nor jealously is a necessary prerequisite for war. War can be the result of cold calculation.

That is true, you could use logic to justify a war

> Jealousy was reported at very high levels (81% of dogs and 79% of horses)

From the same paper.
66% of cat owners reported jealousy/envy in their cats.
67% of bird owners.
47% of rat owners.
37% of rabbit owners.
27% of guinea pig owners.

I asked asked mrs m about this.

She has observed one of our three cats to exhibit envy, and only on one isolated occasion in her 21 year life, when mrs m was being really friendly to an interloper cat in our back yard.

I’ve never observed any of our cats to exhibit envy.

mollwollfumble said:

> Jealousy was reported at very high levels (81% of dogs and 79% of horses)

From the same paper.
66% of cat owners reported jealousy/envy in their cats.
67% of bird owners.
47% of rat owners.
37% of rabbit owners.
27% of guinea pig owners.

I asked asked mrs m about this.

She has observed one of our three cats to exhibit envy, and only on one isolated occasion in her 21 year life, when mrs m was being really friendly to an interloper cat in our back yard.

I’ve never observed any of our cats to exhibit envy.

Maybe animal envy is really just territorial behaviour.

Peak Warming Man said:

mollwollfumble said:

> Jealousy was reported at very high levels (81% of dogs and 79% of horses)

From the same paper.
66% of cat owners reported jealousy/envy in their cats.
67% of bird owners.
47% of rat owners.
37% of rabbit owners.
27% of guinea pig owners.

I asked asked mrs m about this.

She has observed one of our three cats to exhibit envy, and only on one isolated occasion in her 21 year life, when mrs m was being really friendly to an interloper cat in our back yard.

I’ve never observed any of our cats to exhibit envy.

Maybe animal envy is really just territorial behaviour.

In coddled pets?

was thinking of, across our own species – humans

goodly part of contempt probably results from envies, if I I use that word in the plural

transition said:

was thinking of, across our own species – humans

goodly part of contempt probably results from envies, if I I use that word in the plural

got me weak glasses on

more than one example (or instance) the many envies (plural) amplified by the many.

mollwollfumble said:

> Jealousy was reported at very high levels (81% of dogs and 79% of horses)

From the same paper.
66% of cat owners reported jealousy/envy in their cats.
67% of bird owners.
47% of rat owners.
37% of rabbit owners.
27% of guinea pig owners.

I asked asked mrs m about this.

She has observed one of our three cats to exhibit envy, and only on one isolated occasion in her 21 year life, when mrs m was being really friendly to an interloper cat in our back yard.

I’ve never observed any of our cats to exhibit envy.