https://www.newscientist.com/article/2118093-global-sea-ice-is-at-lowest-level-ever-recorded/

Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

dv said:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2118093-global-sea-ice-is-at-lowest-level-ever-recorded/

Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

rooned I tells ya rooned

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2118093-global-sea-ice-is-at-lowest-level-ever-recorded/

Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

rooned I tells ya rooned

Truer than you might think. Less ice equals more absorption of the sun’s rays = increased global warming.

PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2118093-global-sea-ice-is-at-lowest-level-ever-recorded/

Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

rooned I tells ya rooned

Truer than you might think. Less ice equals more absorption of the sun’s rays = increased global warming.

and there is a tipping point.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

rooned I tells ya rooned

Truer than you might think. Less ice equals more absorption of the sun’s rays = increased global warming.

and there is a tipping point.

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Truer than you might think. Less ice equals more absorption of the sun’s rays = increased global warming.

and there is a tipping point.

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

Preaching to the converted. Tell the people that matter.

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

and take a piece of coal to show and tell.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

and there is a tipping point.

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

Preaching to the converted. Tell the people that matter.

And how do you do that? Especially when they don’t listen.

sarahs mum said:

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

and take a piece of coal to show and tell.

curve an and I should add blow up dinghies to the salmon tin and can opener stockpile for the future.

sarahs mum said:

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

and take a piece of coal to show and tell.

That’s why they call themselves the coalition.

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

Preaching to the converted. Tell the people that matter.

And how do you do that? Especially when they don’t listen.

Use a nail gun. It will still go in one ear and out the other.

monkey skipper said:

sarahs mum said:

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

and take a piece of coal to show and tell.

curve an and I should add blow up dinghies to the salmon tin and can opener stockpile for the future.

You want to take your salmonella to sea in a leaky boat?

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

sarahs mum said:

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

and take a piece of coal to show and tell.

curve an and I should add blow up dinghies to the salmon tin and can opener stockpile for the future.

You want to take your salmonella to sea in a leaky boat?

curve wants to control the world’s economies by having the only non-perishable longstanding food supply. I said to him once that he is nothing without my can openers mawhahaha!

And so the legend began….we could capture a broader market share by adding the floating aid devices as well no doubt.

Jobs and the economy are the things politicians hold dear no matter what, no doubt because if they changed their priorities they would be voted out of office, or so they think. They might be better off if they starting thinking about their countries future rather than just their own.

climate changes regardless of causes cannot be ignored indefinitely…. smart or should I say wise people understand this concept.

monkey skipper said:

climate changes regardless of causes cannot be ignored indefinitely…. smart or should I say wise people understand this concept.

Not quite sure what you mean, whether climate changes are normal, or that you believe we are the cause of the current climate change?

monkey skipper said:

climate changes regardless of causes cannot be ignored indefinitely…. smart or should I say wise people understand this concept.

Observant people anyway. ;)

PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

climate changes regardless of causes cannot be ignored indefinitely…. smart or should I say wise people understand this concept.

Not quite sure what you mean, whether climate changes are normal, or that you believe we are the cause of the current climate change?

She meant surely it is observable.

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

climate changes regardless of causes cannot be ignored indefinitely…. smart or should I say wise people understand this concept.

Observant people anyway. ;)

Don’t think you need to be observant, smart of wise, as it is the science that is telling us so.

PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

climate changes regardless of causes cannot be ignored indefinitely…. smart or should I say wise people understand this concept.

Not quite sure what you mean, whether climate changes are normal, or that you believe we are the cause of the current climate change?

climate changes are normal in that history shows this through ice core samples for one example , and understanding the ramifications of current and forecasted conditions is sensible risk management.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

climate changes regardless of causes cannot be ignored indefinitely…. smart or should I say wise people understand this concept.

Not quite sure what you mean, whether climate changes are normal, or that you believe we are the cause of the current climate change?

She meant surely it is observable.

I don’t know, that is why I ask the question.

monkey skipper said:

PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

climate changes regardless of causes cannot be ignored indefinitely…. smart or should I say wise people understand this concept.

Not quite sure what you mean, whether climate changes are normal, or that you believe we are the cause of the current climate change?

climate changes are normal in that history shows this through ice core samples for one example , and understanding the ramifications of current and forecasted conditions is sensible risk management.

There have always been causes for climate change, currently we are the cause and unless we reduce our co2 emissions it is going to get progressively worse. Then it will not be a case of turning up the air-con, but our food production will be compromised, water to produce food and even drink may not be available when and where it is needed. Natural catastrophes will become common place. The world is going to change dramatically and not for the good.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

rooned I tells ya rooned

Truer than you might think. Less ice equals more absorption of the sun’s rays = increased global warming.

and there is a tipping point.

yeah but at least the thawing permafrost will release a bunch of clathrates wait what?

It“s worse than Jim thought, John!

Quick, get Trump to round up all the undiscovered endangered Sahara Polarpandas. Especially Bert, the now discovered gay Sahara Polarpanda!

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

and take a piece of coal to show and tell.

That’s why they call themselves the coalition.

nice one

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

climate changes regardless of causes cannot be ignored indefinitely…. smart or should I say wise people understand this concept.

Observant people anyway. ;)

Don’t think you need to be observant, smart of wise, as it is the science that is telling us so.

You do need to be observant of the science. Again, it is observations that make the science.

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Not quite sure what you mean, whether climate changes are normal, or that you believe we are the cause of the current climate change?

She meant surely it is observable.

I don’t know, that is why I ask the question.

So you aren’t looking anyway?

It’s kind of funny, really. It’s like someone who is lactose intolerant calling themselves the_milkdrinker.

> Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

Good.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

sarahs mum said:

Don’t think is far away. It is amazing here we are staring disaster in the face, yet the politicians still talk of losing jobs if we reduce fossil fuels. Perhaps they should be made aware that when runaway warming occurs, there will be no need of jobs, but a case of survival.

and take a piece of coal to show and tell.

That’s why they call themselves the coalition.

nice one

It was worth observing. ;)

mollwollfumble said:

> Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

Good.

You looking to make a motsa on some new beach-front property?

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

> Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

Good.

You looking to make a motsa on some new beach-front property?

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

> Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

Good.

You looking to make a motsa on some new beach-front property?

Oh, look; if you look hard enough you can see Bert the now discovered gay Sahara Polarpanda standing on the top of that red iceberg.

The_observer said:

Oh, look; if you look hard enough you can see Bert the now discovered gay Sahara Polarpanda standing on the top of that red iceberg.

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

> Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

Good.

You looking to make a motsa on some new beach-front property?

Even tonight I hear on the TV: “these geese are extremely tired and hungry, but can’t migrate any further north until the ice has melted”

mollwollfumble said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

> Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

Good.

You looking to make a motsa on some new beach-front property?

Even tonight I hear on the TV: “these geese are extremely tired and hungry, but can’t migrate any further north until the ice has melted”

Global warming is a conspiracy concocted by the geese.

(Gans falsch)

mollwollfumble said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

> Global sea ice is at lowest level ever recorded

Good.

You looking to make a motsa on some new beach-front property?

Even tonight I hear on the TV: “these geese are extremely tired and hungry, but can’t migrate any further north until the ice has melted”

I too saw the very good documentary of North American Wildlife. To place your quote into context, the earlier program comment was something like, at last the sun is rising and spring is almost here and the geese are returning. There was no mention of the timing of the ice, whether early or late, nor of any comparison with previous years, therefore your comment above is of no relevance what so ever.

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

You looking to make a motsa on some new beach-front property?

Even tonight I hear on the TV: “these geese are extremely tired and hungry, but can’t migrate any further north until the ice has melted”

I too saw the very good documentary of North American Wildlife. To place your quote into context, the earlier program comment was something like, at last the sun is rising and spring is almost here and the geese are returning. There was no mention of the timing of the ice, whether early or late, nor of any comparison with previous years, therefore your comment above is of no relevance what so ever.

Except that, with the possible exception of the blonde grizzlies, not one species on Earth benefits from more arctic sea ice.

The loss of arctic sea ice will negatively affect a huge number of species ranging from phytoplankton to humans. A few species will be positively affected.

“The ongoing ice retreat is spawning a variety of changes in the Arctic ecosystem, from increased parasites in caribou herds to a growth in annual tundra fires in Alaska, according to the assessment in Science, which reviews prior data.

Declining ice can change the timing of phytoplankton blooms, throwing off the feeding cycles of animals along the feed chain, it states.

Some changes are well-known, such as declines in polar bear populations and stresses to walruses being forced out of their shallow feeding grounds as ice retreats into deeper waters. Ice loss can cause less genetic diversity among animals like arctic foxes that use the ice as a travel pathway, while also creating the opposite effect with other species.

‘Observed hybridization between polar bears and grizzly bears may be the result of increasing inland presence of polar bears as a result of prolonged ice-free seasons,’ the assessment notes.

Other changes are less visual. Diseases like phocine distemper virus, now present in eastern Arctic seals, may now “spill over” to western species because of the loss of ice, according to the review. On the other hand, some changing disease patterns could be beneficial— arctic foxes may not be able to carry rabies to Svalbard via an ice trek as they have in the past, for example.

Most of the studies that we reviewed found plausible and even likely links between sea ice and things like polar bear breeding success, seal breeding success, plankton communities, and even climates in coastal terrestrial systems.”

Scientific American

Ian posted the above to the wrong thread. It should go in the pop-sci thread about emotion clouding judgement.

No

mollwollfumble said:

Ian posted the above to the wrong thread. It should go in the pop-sci thread about emotion clouding judgement.

To expand on Ian’s response a little:
Yes, there is huge doubt about how climate change will affect the living things on this planet, but no, that doesn’t mean we should reject or ignore any and all warnings of dire consequences, for the following reasons:

1. All living things have evolved to suit their environment. If the environment changes significantly and rapidly there will be a few species that benefit, but overall the great majority will be worse off.

2. The question about what to do about GHG emissions is an engineering question, not a scientific question. That means we don’t wait until we have incontrovertible evidence before taking action, we use the best evidence we have and make decisions based on that, taking account of what the consequences might be if our best predictions are wrong.

That means if the evidence is uncertain, we should act with greater caution, not less.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

Even tonight I hear on the TV: “these geese are extremely tired and hungry, but can’t migrate any further north until the ice has melted”

I too saw the very good documentary of North American Wildlife. To place your quote into context, the earlier program comment was something like, at last the sun is rising and spring is almost here and the geese are returning. There was no mention of the timing of the ice, whether early or late, nor of any comparison with previous years, therefore your comment above is of no relevance what so ever.

Except that, with the possible exception of the blonde grizzlies, not one species on Earth benefits from more arctic sea ice.

moll:
The decline of arctic sea ice is symptomatic of general warming. All species benefit from a cooler arctic in that a warmer arctic means the breakdown of trillions of tonnes of clathrate, which would cause very rapid and irreversible climate change.

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

I too saw the very good documentary of North American Wildlife. To place your quote into context, the earlier program comment was something like, at last the sun is rising and spring is almost here and the geese are returning. There was no mention of the timing of the ice, whether early or late, nor of any comparison with previous years, therefore your comment above is of no relevance what so ever.

Except that, with the possible exception of the blonde grizzlies, not one species on Earth benefits from more arctic sea ice.

moll:
The decline of arctic sea ice is symptomatic of general warming. All species benefit from a cooler arctic in that a warmer arctic means the breakdown of trillions of tonnes of clathrate, which would cause very rapid and irreversible climate change.

wouldn’t it also impact on that cool/warm water conveyor system? which would impact on systems far away from the poles?

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

Except that, with the possible exception of the blonde grizzlies, not one species on Earth benefits from more arctic sea ice.

moll:
The decline of arctic sea ice is symptomatic of general warming. All species benefit from a cooler arctic in that a warmer arctic means the breakdown of trillions of tonnes of clathrate, which would cause very rapid and irreversible climate change.

wouldn’t it also impact on that cool/warm water conveyor system? which would impact on systems far away from the poles?

Well note that sea ice is, in any case, fairly thin. It isn’t much of a current blocker.

dv said:

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

moll:
The decline of arctic sea ice is symptomatic of general warming. All species benefit from a cooler arctic in that a warmer arctic means the breakdown of trillions of tonnes of clathrate, which would cause very rapid and irreversible climate change.

wouldn’t it also impact on that cool/warm water conveyor system? which would impact on systems far away from the poles?

Well note that sea ice is, in any case, fairly thin. It isn’t much of a current blocker.

more this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermohaline_circulation than a blocker.

moll:
The decline of arctic sea ice is symptomatic of general warming. All species benefit from a cooler arctic in that a warmer arctic means the breakdown of trillions of tonnes of clathrate, which would cause very rapid and irreversible climate change.

————-

Yes. That’s the long term but picture outlook.

(I would have made a similar zippier statement except that here in northern NSW I am currently experiencing the adverse effects of climate change and my branes are not at their optimum)

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

Even tonight I hear on the TV: “these geese are extremely tired and hungry, but can’t migrate any further north until the ice has melted”

I too saw the very good documentary of North American Wildlife. To place your quote into context, the earlier program comment was something like, at last the sun is rising and spring is almost here and the geese are returning. There was no mention of the timing of the ice, whether early or late, nor of any comparison with previous years, therefore your comment above is of no relevance what so ever.

Except that, with the possible exception of the blonde grizzlies, not one species on Earth benefits from more arctic sea ice.

I think later posts have addressed the flaws of your statement.

mollwollfumble said:

Ian posted the above to the wrong thread. It should go in the pop-sci thread about emotion clouding judgement.

For someone supposedly involved with science, you don’t seem to learn much from it.

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

Ian posted the above to the wrong thread. It should go in the pop-sci thread about emotion clouding judgement.

For someone supposedly involved with science, you don’t seem to learn much from it.

Being pretentious can cloud judgement too.

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

Ian posted the above to the wrong thread. It should go in the pop-sci thread about emotion clouding judgement.

For someone supposedly involved with science, you don’t seem to learn much from it.

I abhor fads.

I am old enough to have seen more than 20 different scientific predictions of apocalypse. Only one of which has come true. Global warming is the most benign apocalypse ever invented.

Or to put it another way, the climate is going to change no matter how much money we throw at it. Global cooling would be much worst than global warming. Therefore global warming is good.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

Ian posted the above to the wrong thread. It should go in the pop-sci thread about emotion clouding judgement.

For someone supposedly involved with science, you don’t seem to learn much from it.

I abhor fads.

I am old enough to have seen more than 20 different scientific predictions of apocalypse. Only one of which has come true. Global warming is the most benign apocalypse ever invented.

Or to put it another way, the climate is going to change no matter how much money we throw at it. Global cooling would be much worst than global warming. Therefore global warming is good.

Need I say more? I think the above also answers Tau’s post below.

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

Ian posted the above to the wrong thread. It should go in the pop-sci thread about emotion clouding judgement.

For someone supposedly involved with science, you don’t seem to learn much from it.

Being pretentious can cloud judgement too.

Isually from the viewers standpoint.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

Ian posted the above to the wrong thread. It should go in the pop-sci thread about emotion clouding judgement.

For someone supposedly involved with science, you don’t seem to learn much from it.

I abhor fads.

I am old enough to have seen more than 20 different scientific predictions of apocalypse. Only one of which has come true. Global warming is the most benign apocalypse ever invented.

Or to put it another way, the climate is going to change no matter how much money we throw at it. Global cooling would be much worst than global warming. Therefore global warming is good.

Are you talking short or long term?

I hope you spotted my deliberate error in logic.

I put it in deliberately to see how logical you were feeling.

Can you name it?

mollwollfumble said:

I hope you spotted my deliberate error in logic.

I put it in deliberately to see how logical you were feeling.

Can you name it?

I am still looking for the logic……any logic.