Human activity helps create hundreds of new minerals

Human-made minerals created in the years since the industrial revolution have been uncovered by scientists, who want them to be accepted as real minerals.

More…

from the link

Most of the Earth’s roughly 5,000 or so different types of minerals were formed during what is known as the Great Oxidation 2 billion years ago.

“We project that there’s about 1,500 mineral species that have yet to be found,” he said.

Tau.Neutrino said:

from the link

Most of the Earth’s roughly 5,000 or so different types of minerals were formed during what is known as the Great Oxidation 2 billion years ago.

“We project that there’s about 1,500 mineral species that have yet to be found,” he said.

theres a few jobs for people

“He said another bizarre find was Tinnunculite, “when a certain species of falcon poops on a burning coal mine”.”

oddly specific

dv said:

“He said another bizarre find was Tinnunculite, “when a certain species of falcon poops on a burning coal mine”.”

oddly specific

I’ve seen a coal seam on fire.. and I can tell the last thing I’d be doing is going in to retrieve a bit of bird shit…

My own view is that most of the things described here are not minerals. A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

dv said:

“He said another bizarre find was Tinnunculite, “when a certain species of falcon poops on a burning coal mine”.”

oddly specific

Would it make more sense with actual proof?

dv said:

“He said another bizarre find was Tinnunculite, “when a certain species of falcon poops on a burning coal mine”.”

oddly specific

yes, very specific ways of formation

Would a test on all birds pooing on a burning coal mine lead to something?

must a huge range of possibilities

I’m wondering though on the 1500 estimate, could they be more than that, are they basing it on certain elements ?

dv said:

My own view is that most of the things described here are not minerals. A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

So our shit isn’t naturally occurring?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

My own view is that most of the things described here are not minerals. A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

So our shit isn’t naturally occurring?

It is not, obviously, inorganic.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

My own view is that most of the things described here are not minerals. A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

So our shit isn’t naturally occurring?

It is not, obviously, inorganic.

and what is contained within it is?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

So our shit isn’t naturally occurring?

It is not, obviously, inorganic.

and what is contained within it is?

excuse me?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

My own view is that most of the things described here are not minerals. A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

So our shit isn’t naturally occurring?

Created by our bodies I think, Ive never seen human shit form by itself, unless your referring to Trump

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

It is not, obviously, inorganic.

and what is contained within it is?

excuse me?

why sure, what did you do?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

So our shit isn’t naturally occurring?

It is not, obviously, inorganic.

and what is contained within it is?

I don’t understand your question.

Human faeces

• are not inorganic
• do not have an orderly internal structure
• do not have a characteristic crystalline form

So on at least 3 counts they are not minerals.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

It is not, obviously, inorganic.

and what is contained within it is?

I don’t understand your question.

Human faeces

• are not inorganic
• do not have an orderly internal structure
• do not have a characteristic crystalline form

So on at least 3 counts they are not minerals.

So, that’s cleared the shit of any fault?

Starting to think you need to wear a helmet when cycling, and indeed when not.

I don’t think “characteristic crystalline form” is a necessity for a substance to be a mineral, since opal, which is amorphous and thus has no crystalline form, is classified as a mineral. It’s an example off the top of my head, and probably not the only example.

btm said:

I don’t think “characteristic crystalline form” is a necessity for a substance to be a mineral, since opal, which is amorphous and thus has no crystalline form, is classified as a mineral. It’s an example off the top of my head, and probably not the only example.

Opal is not considered a mineral.

A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opal

Opal is a hydrated amorphous form of silica (SiO2·nH2O); its water content may range from 3 to 21% by weight, but is usually between 6 and 10%. Because of its amorphous character, it is classed as a mineraloid, unlike crystalline forms of silica, which are classed as minerals. It is deposited at a relatively low temperature and may occur in the fissures of almost any kind of rock, being most commonly found with limonite, sandstone, rhyolite, marl, and basalt. Opal is the national gemstone of Australia.

Tau.Neutrino said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opal

Opal is a hydrated amorphous form of silica (SiO2·nH2O); its water content may range from 3 to 21% by weight, but is usually between 6 and 10%. Because of its amorphous character, it is classed as a mineraloid, unlike crystalline forms of silica, which are classed as minerals. It is deposited at a relatively low temperature and may occur in the fissures of almost any kind of rock, being most commonly found with limonite, sandstone, rhyolite, marl, and basalt. Opal is the national gemstone of Australia.

Mineraloid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineraloid

A mineraloid is a mineral-like substance that does not demonstrate crystallinity. Mineraloids possess chemical compositions that vary beyond the generally accepted ranges for specific minerals. For example, obsidian is an amorphous glass and not a crystal. Jet is derived from decaying wood under extreme pressure. Opal is another mineraloid because of its non-crystalline nature. Pearl, considered by some to be a mineral because of the presence of calcium carbonate crystals within its structure, would be better considered a mineraloid because the crystals are bonded by an organic material, and there is no definite proportion of the components.

I didnt know about Mineraloids.

dv said:

btm said:

I don’t think “characteristic crystalline form” is a necessity for a substance to be a mineral, since opal, which is amorphous and thus has no crystalline form, is classified as a mineral. It’s an example off the top of my head, and probably not the only example.

Opal is not considered a mineral.

My mistake. Opal is a mineraloid.
dv said:

A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

According to the International Mineral Organization (sic), the general definition of a mineral encompasses the following criteria:

1. Naturally occurring
2. Stable at room temperature
3. Represented by a chemical formula
4. Usually abiogenic (not resulting from the activity of living organisms)
5. Ordered atomic arrangement

(Note the lack of a requirement for crystalline form.)

btm said:

dv said:

btm said:

I don’t think “characteristic crystalline form” is a necessity for a substance to be a mineral, since opal, which is amorphous and thus has no crystalline form, is classified as a mineral. It’s an example off the top of my head, and probably not the only example.

Opal is not considered a mineral.

My mistake. Opal is a mineraloid.
dv said:

A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

According to the International Mineral Organization (sic), the general definition of a mineral encompasses the following criteria:

1. Naturally occurring
2. Stable at room temperature
3. Represented by a chemical formula
4. Usually abiogenic (not resulting from the activity of living organisms)
5. Ordered atomic arrangement

(Note the lack of a requirement for crystalline form.)

Note that “ordered atomic arrangement” means crystalline form.

I would add that elemental mercury, which is liquid at room temperature, is classified as a mineral, and, as a liquid, is not crystalline (though it does crystalise when it freezes.)

dv said:

btm said:

dv said:

My mistake. Opal is a mineraloid.
dv said:

A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

According to the International Mineral Organization (sic), the general definition of a mineral encompasses the following criteria:

1. Naturally occurring
2. Stable at room temperature
3. Represented by a chemical formula
4. Usually abiogenic (not resulting from the activity of living organisms)
5. Ordered atomic arrangement

(Note the lack of a requirement for crystalline form.)

Note that “ordered atomic arrangement” means crystalline form.

No.

btm said:

dv said:

btm said:

According to the International Mineral Organization (sic), the general definition of a mineral encompasses the following criteria:

1. Naturally occurring
2. Stable at room temperature
3. Represented by a chemical formula
4. Usually abiogenic (not resulting from the activity of living organisms)
5. Ordered atomic arrangement

(Note the lack of a requirement for crystalline form.)

Note that “ordered atomic arrangement” means crystalline form.

No.

Um, yes. The phrases are synonymous.

Crystal structure

In crystallography, crystal structure is a description of the ordered arrangement of atoms, ions or molecules in a crystalline material. Ordered structures occur from the intrinsic nature of the constituent particles to form symmetric patterns that repeat along the principal directions of three-dimensional space in matter.

I mean fuck dude, I did three semesters on this and got HDs, I’m not just guessing.

dv said:

I mean fuck dude, I did three semesters on this and got HDs, I’m not just guessing.

dv said:

I mean fuck dude, I did three semesters on this and got HDs, I’m not just guessing.

Probably thought the earth was flat when you were in uni though…

poikilotherm said:

Probably thought the earth was flat when you were in uni though…

Well parts of it are.

dv said:

btm said:

dv said:

Note that “ordered atomic arrangement” means crystalline form.

No.

Um, yes. The phrases are synonymous.

They’re not, actually. Opal, for example, has an ordered atomic arrangement (you’ll have to look up opal’s structure), but, as I said earlier, is not crystalline.

To offer another example of non-crystalline mineral, while gold is occasionally found as crystals (I’ve got some natural gold crystals), it’s almost always found in non-crystalline (massive) form. The same is true of silver.

btm said:

To offer another example of non-crystalline mineral, while gold is occasionally found as crystals (I’ve got some natural gold crystals), it’s almost always found in non-crystalline (massive) form. The same is true of silver.

elemental gold is not considered a ‘mineral’

diddly-squat said:

btm said:

To offer another example of non-crystalline mineral, while gold is occasionally found as crystals (I’ve got some natural gold crystals), it’s almost always found in non-crystalline (massive) form. The same is true of silver.

elemental gold is not considered a ‘mineral’

and opal is not a mineral either… it and other precious gems such as pearls are called “mineraloids”

btm said:

To offer another example of non-crystalline mineral, while gold is occasionally found as crystals (I’ve got some natural gold crystals), it’s almost always found in non-crystalline (massive) form. The same is true of silver.

That’s not an example, and it is certainly not another example, because there aren’t any examples, because minerals are crystalline by definition.

diddly-squat said:

btm said:

To offer another example of non-crystalline mineral, while gold is occasionally found as crystals (I’ve got some natural gold crystals), it’s almost always found in non-crystalline (massive) form. The same is true of silver.

elemental gold is not considered a ‘mineral’

I can’t find anything to confirm or dispute this, so I’ll have to take your word for it. Is the same true for silver and/or mercury?

dv said:

btm said:

To offer another example of non-crystalline mineral, while gold is occasionally found as crystals (I’ve got some natural gold crystals), it’s almost always found in non-crystalline (massive) form. The same is true of silver.

That’s not an example, and it is certainly not another example, because there aren’t any examples, because minerals are crystalline by definition.

Did you miss my post about elemental mercury?

btm said:

diddly-squat said:

btm said:

To offer another example of non-crystalline mineral, while gold is occasionally found as crystals (I’ve got some natural gold crystals), it’s almost always found in non-crystalline (massive) form. The same is true of silver.

elemental gold is not considered a ‘mineral’

I can’t find anything to confirm or dispute this, so I’ll have to take your word for it. Is the same true for silver and/or mercury?

same same

what dv says about minerals is correct – after all, at the heart of his black magics, in places he doesn’t like to talk about… he is a geologist

btm said:

dv said:

btm said:

To offer another example of non-crystalline mineral, while gold is occasionally found as crystals (I’ve got some natural gold crystals), it’s almost always found in non-crystalline (massive) form. The same is true of silver.

That’s not an example, and it is certainly not another example, because there aren’t any examples, because minerals are crystalline by definition.

Did you miss my post about elemental mercury?

Elemental mercury is a crystalline solid below -39 deg C, a temperature not unknown in North America and Eurasia, and when solid it is crystalline.

diddly-squat said:

btm said:

diddly-squat said:

elemental gold is not considered a ‘mineral’

I can’t find anything to confirm or dispute this, so I’ll have to take your word for it. Is the same true for silver and/or mercury?

same same

what dv says about minerals is correct – after all, at the heart of his black magics, in places he doesn’t like to talk about… he is a geologist

You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall

Say coal, btm, say coal, I want you to say coal, I dare you to say coal.

dv said:

Say coal, btm, say coal, I want you to say coal, I dare you to say coal.

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

Say coal, btm, say coal, I want you to say coal, I dare you to say coal.

Jet

dv said:

Say coal, btm, say coal, I want you to say coal, I dare you to say coal.

Coal is not a mineral. It’s biogenic.

By the year 2020, every Australian child will have their own lump of coal.

what about frozen mineral water?

Anyway what do our geologists think – should the geological time scale recognise the Anthropocene epoch?

Bogsnorkler said:

what about frozen mineral water?

Water ice is counted as a mineral by some of the organisations, and in my view it does mean the criteria.

Bogsnorkler said:

what about frozen mineral water?

Water ice is counted as a mineral by some of the organisations, and in my view it does mean the criteria.

Bubblecar said:

Anyway what do our geologists think – should the geological time scale recognise the Anthropocene epoch?

Eventually, yes.

dv said:

tell me about it, i haven’t slept in 16 years.

Bogsnorkler said:

dv said:

tell me about it, i haven’t slept in 16 years.

You’re like the direct opposite of sleeping beauty

dv said:

I mean fuck dude, I did three semesters on this and got HDs, I’m not just guessing.

Jeez, after getting a HD the first time you wouldn’t think you’d have to repeat it, let alone have to do it twice more.

dv said:

My own view is that most of the things described here are not minerals. A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

Agree with dv here.

Huge numbers new rocklike substances have been created by human beings – for example in trying to make high temperature superconductors.

On the other hand, I have seen human-made beautiful crystalline structures from some compound that doesn’t occur (often) in nature – they were for sale in a gemological get-together. Check web – bismuth crystals. Mineral bismuth does occur in nature.

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

My own view is that most of the things described here are not minerals. A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

Agree with dv here.

Huge numbers new rocklike substances have been created by human beings – for example in trying to make high temperature superconductors.

On the other hand, I have seen human-made beautiful crystalline structures from some compound that doesn’t occur (often) in nature – they were for sale in a gemological get-together. Check web – bismuth crystals. Mineral bismuth does occur in nature.

I’ve sometimes wanted to pull a prank whereby I make rocks containing technetium (it might contain some kind of Te-braunite or something) and allow them to be discovered and have people wondering how it could have happened.

dv said:

btm said:

To offer another example of non-crystalline mineral, while gold is occasionally found as crystals (I’ve got some natural gold crystals), it’s almost always found in non-crystalline (massive) form. The same is true of silver.

That’s not an example, and it is certainly not another example, because there aren’t any examples, because minerals are crystalline by definition.

>>Native gold is an element and a mineral. It is highly prized by people because of its attractive color, resistance to tarnish, and its many special properties – some of which are unique to gold.<<

http://geology.com/minerals/gold.shtml

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

My own view is that most of the things described here are not minerals. A mineral is “a naturally occurring inorganic substance having an orderly internal structure and characteristic chemical composition, crystal form, and physical properties”.

Agree with dv here.

Huge numbers new rocklike substances have been created by human beings – for example in trying to make high temperature superconductors.

On the other hand, I have seen human-made beautiful crystalline structures from some compound that doesn’t occur (often) in nature – they were for sale in a gemological get-together. Check web – bismuth crystals. Mineral bismuth does occur in nature.

I’ve sometimes wanted to pull a prank whereby I make rocks containing technetium (it might contain some kind of Te-braunite or something) and allow them to be discovered and have people wondering how it could have happened.

you’re a real prankster

8/

But it might be hard to get a large amount of technetium. Not sure I’d know where to start.

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

Agree with dv here.

Huge numbers new rocklike substances have been created by human beings – for example in trying to make high temperature superconductors.

On the other hand, I have seen human-made beautiful crystalline structures from some compound that doesn’t occur (often) in nature – they were for sale in a gemological get-together. Check web – bismuth crystals. Mineral bismuth does occur in nature.

I’ve sometimes wanted to pull a prank whereby I make rocks containing technetium (it might contain some kind of Te-braunite or something) and allow them to be discovered and have people wondering how it could have happened.

you’re a real prankster

8/

Hey I wouldn’t make it radioactive enough to get someone sick, I’m not a monster.

dv said:

But it might be hard to get a large amount of technetium. Not sure I’d know where to start.

Get some Mo and you’ll be right.

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

But it might be hard to get a large amount of technetium. Not sure I’d know where to start.

Get some Mo and you’ll be right.

How?

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

But it might be hard to get a large amount of technetium. Not sure I’d know where to start.

Get some Mo and you’ll be right.

How?

http://au.iherb.com/pr/country-life-molybdenum-chelated-150-mcg-100-tablets/15298

http://geology.com/minerals/gold.shtml

if you wish be successful in your quest to prove DV wrong maybe linking to a site that is a little bit above a 1st grade primer would benefit.

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

Get some Mo and you’ll be right.

How?

http://au.iherb.com/pr/country-life-molybdenum-chelated-150-mcg-100-tablets/15298

I don’t mean “how can I get some molybdenum”. I mean how will I be right (in terms of obtaining technetium) just because I get some molybdenum. Normal Mo does not decay into technetium. (Some highly radioactive isotopes of Mo, produced by decay of Uranium, will decay to produce molybdenum but these would be harder to obtain than technetium, so…

Gold does have a crystalline form anyway…

Price of Technetium-99 Cut Sharply

Lower price, result of new process and feed source, may trigger new hunt for applications INCLUDING HILARIOUS PRANKS

Technetium-99 may be reappraised for a host of potential uses, both military and civilian, in the light of a drastic price cut just announced by Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Under the revised schedule, Tc 99’ s price drops from the $1600 to $2800 a gram range (depending on quantity) to just $100 a gram. The new price, coupled with a greatly improved supply picture, could put Tc 99 back in the running as a high performance corrosion inhibitor and super conductor.

Behind the new price structure is a new purification process, plus a shift to a new enriched starting material. The ORNL process—first to recover kilogram quantities of technetium—is a multistage solvent extraction with 2,4-dimethyl pyridine followed by crystallization as ammonium pertech-netate from ammonium nitrate solution, says ORNL chemist Stanley J. Rimshavv, who worked up the new method.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cen-v039n009.p052

dv said:

Price of Technetium-99 Cut Sharply

Lower price, result of new process and feed source, may trigger new hunt for applications INCLUDING HILARIOUS PRANKS

Technetium-99 may be reappraised for a host of potential uses, both military and civilian, in the light of a drastic price cut just announced by Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Under the revised schedule, Tc 99’ s price drops from the $1600 to $2800 a gram range (depending on quantity) to just $100 a gram. The new price, coupled with a greatly improved supply picture, could put Tc 99 back in the running as a high performance corrosion inhibitor and super conductor.

Behind the new price structure is a new purification process, plus a shift to a new enriched starting material. The ORNL process—first to recover kilogram quantities of technetium—is a multistage solvent extraction with 2,4-dimethyl pyridine followed by crystallization as ammonium pertech-netate from ammonium nitrate solution, says ORNL chemist Stanley J. Rimshavv, who worked up the new method.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cen-v039n009.p052

snigger

Bogsnorkler said:

http://geology.com/minerals/gold.shtml

if you wish be successful in your quest to prove DV wrong maybe linking to a site that is a little bit above a 1st grade primer would benefit.

Think you ought to get your definitions right first, which are taught at the early stages. The following definitions should be noted:

What Are Rocks, Minerals, And Elements?

It is best if we clearly define what we are talking about when we discuss rocks, minerals and elements.
Elements:

Elements are atoms, the smallest piece that we can split matter into (except for subatomic particles and other things that we’ll leave to the physicists). Different elements have different properties. Take two different elements: iron and helium. Iron is very different than helium. You wouldn’t fill a balloon with iron any more than you would try to build a bridge out of helium.
Minerals:

Elements often are stacked together with other elements to form minerals. Minerals are simply a collection of one or more elements that are stacked neatly together in a form called a crystal structure. More details are available about this.
Rocks:

Rocks are a composed of one or more minerals. A rock can be made up of only one mineral or, as shown in the figure, a rock can be made up of a number of different minerals.

So, rocks are composed of one or more minerals and minerals are composed of one or more elements.<<

http://ratw.asu.edu/aboutrocks_whatarerocks.html

“Elements often are stacked together with other elements to form minerals. Minerals are simply a collection of one or more elements that are stacked neatly together in a form called a crystal structure. “

So … you agree with me.

dv said:

“Elements often are stacked together with other elements to form minerals. Minerals are simply a collection of one or more elements that are stacked neatly together in a form called a crystal structure. “

So … you agree with me.

Don’t agree with you, but the facts of the matter that you repeated, as I did. Native Gold can produce crystals and therefore fits the description of a mineral.

Tau.Neutrino said:

from the link

Most of the Earth’s roughly 5,000 or so different types of minerals were formed during what is known as the Great Oxidation 2 billion years ago.

“We project that there’s about 1,500 mineral species that have yet to be found,” he said.

From Google:

“There are approximately 3800 known minerals. About 30 to 50 new minerals are described and one or two minerals are discredited each year. The most complete listing of minerals is J. Mandarino Fleischer’s Glossary of Mineral Species 1999 published by the Mineralogical Record.”

I once read an excellent book about the formation of minerals, that was written for a target market of mineral collectors. More than half of the minerals in the book were minerals that I had never heard of before, not even in books about petrology. This book that divided minerals into groups by their process of formation. Although the most familiar minerals are igneous, there are far more minerals formed by metamorphosis. Beyond that is a larger group of materials that have been created by the action of water. And to by naive understanding, the largest number of minerals are at least partly biological in origin.

Metamorphism is the geological process (changing a rock through heat, pressure and time), not metamorphosis (a zoologic process).

Michael V said:

Metamorphism is the geological process (changing a rock through heat, pressure and time), not metamorphosis (a zoologic process).

oopsey 😳