https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/10/elon-musk-i-can-fix-south-australia-power-network-in-100-days-or-its-free?CMP=soc_567

sarahs mum said:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/10/elon-musk-i-can-fix-south-australia-power-network-in-100-days-or-its-free?CMP=soc_567

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA
HAHAH
HA

gasps

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA
HAHAH
HA

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/10/elon-musk-i-can-fix-south-australia-power-network-in-100-days-or-its-free?CMP=soc_567

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA
HAHAH
HA

gasps

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA
HAHAH
HA

OK, but what do you really think?

The Rev Dodgson said:

sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/10/elon-musk-i-can-fix-south-australia-power-network-in-100-days-or-its-free?CMP=soc_567

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA
HAHAH
HA

gasps

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA
HAHAH
HA

OK, but what do you really think?

.. and please show your workings.

“ or he’ll deliver the 100MW battery storage system for free.

On Thursday, Lyndon Rive, Tesla’s vice-president for energy products, told the AFR the company could install the 100-300 megawatt hours of battery storage that would be required to prevent the power shortages that have been causing price spikes and blackouts in the state.
“

Excuse me for being picky, but there is actually quite a big difference between 100 MWh and 300 MWh.

The Rev Dodgson said:

“ or he’ll deliver the 100MW battery storage system for free.

On Thursday, Lyndon Rive, Tesla’s vice-president for energy products, told the AFR the company could install the 100-300 megawatt hours of battery storage that would be required to prevent the power shortages that have been causing price spikes and blackouts in the state.
“

Excuse me for being picky, but there is actually quite a big difference between 100 MWh and 300 MWh.

There is no mention of the inverter technology nor size either. Tesla could install 100 MWh of battery storage but if it was all fed through a 1 MVA inverter it wouldn’t do much good.

sibeen said:

There is no mention of the inverter technology nor size either. Tesla could install 100 MWh of battery storage but if it was all fed through a 1 MVA inverter it wouldn’t do much good.

You’re trying to sound like some sort of expert…

runs away

sibeen said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

“ or he’ll deliver the 100MW battery storage system for free.

On Thursday, Lyndon Rive, Tesla’s vice-president for energy products, told the AFR the company could install the 100-300 megawatt hours of battery storage that would be required to prevent the power shortages that have been causing price spikes and blackouts in the state.
“

Excuse me for being picky, but there is actually quite a big difference between 100 MWh and 300 MWh.

There is no mention of the inverter technology nor size either. Tesla could install 100 MWh of battery storage but if it was all fed through a 1 MVA inverter it wouldn’t do much good.

Looks like you can just plug them in. Bunnings should have the plugs.

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

“ or he’ll deliver the 100MW battery storage system for free.

On Thursday, Lyndon Rive, Tesla’s vice-president for energy products, told the AFR the company could install the 100-300 megawatt hours of battery storage that would be required to prevent the power shortages that have been causing price spikes and blackouts in the state.
“

Excuse me for being picky, but there is actually quite a big difference between 100 MWh and 300 MWh.

There is no mention of the inverter technology nor size either. Tesla could install 100 MWh of battery storage but if it was all fed through a 1 MVA inverter it wouldn’t do much good.

Looks like you can just plug them in. Bunnings should have the plugs.

https://www.sma.de/fileadmin/Partner/Solaracademy/Downloads/EN/PV-Power%20Plants%201-Inverter_EN-123610_web.pdf

Witty Rejoinder said:

sibeen said:

There is no mention of the inverter technology nor size either. Tesla could install 100 MWh of battery storage but if it was all fed through a 1 MVA inverter it wouldn’t do much good.

You’re trying to sound like some sort of expert…

runs away

and he would have got away with it if it hadn’t been for those meddling kids…

Just had a look over at the Graun. 715 comments and approximately 710 of them cheering Musk on and back slapping him about what a great bloke he is, blah, blah.

Fuck me.

I can hardly bear to read up on this because of the journalists insisting on misusing simple mensurative units.

But I note that SA’s mean power consumption is in the order of 2 GW.

100 MWh of storage, thus, is about 3 minutes of SA’s power.

Given the scale of outages last time, it is not clear to me that this amount of storage would solve SA’s problems.

dv said:

I can hardly bear to read up on this because of the journalists insisting on misusing simple mensurative units.

But I note that SA’s mean power consumption is in the order of 2 GW.

100 MWh of storage, thus, is about 3 minutes of SA’s power.

Given the scale of outages last time, it is not clear to me that this amount of storage would solve SA’s problems.

thanks DV. 9 minutes doesn’t sound like a solution either.

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

I can hardly bear to read up on this because of the journalists insisting on misusing simple mensurative units.

But I note that SA’s mean power consumption is in the order of 2 GW.

100 MWh of storage, thus, is about 3 minutes of SA’s power.

Given the scale of outages last time, it is not clear to me that this amount of storage would solve SA’s problems.

thanks DV. 9 minutes doesn’t sound like a solution either.

Im sure Bunnings has a solution to the SA fix

just need to find the right row

Over at The Grauniad there is now over 2000 comments on this story.

sibeen said:

Over at The Grauniad there is now over 2000 comments on this story.

Musk says he can build the hyperloop form melb to Syd in 100 days or its free!

sibeen said:

Over at The Grauniad there is now over 2000 comments on this story.

Did most of the, like mine, include a level headed quantitative analysis of the usefulness of 100 MWh of storage?

Tau.Neutrino said:

sibeen said:

Over at The Grauniad there is now over 2000 comments on this story.

Musk says he can build the hyperloop form melb to Syd in 100 days or its free!

Musk says he can build hyperbole in 100 days or it’s free!

dv said:

sibeen said:

Over at The Grauniad there is now over 2000 comments on this story.

Did most of the, like mine, include a level headed quantitative analysis of the usefulness of 100 MWh of storage?

Yes…yes, that’s exactly what most of the comments are based on.

sibeen said:

dv said:

sibeen said:

Over at The Grauniad there is now over 2000 comments on this story.

Did most of the, like mine, include a level headed quantitative analysis of the usefulness of 100 MWh of storage?

Yes…yes, that’s exactly what most of the comments are based on.

What would be a useful amount of storage?

Tau.Neutrino said:

sibeen said:

dv said:

Did most of the, like mine, include a level headed quantitative analysis of the usefulness of 100 MWh of storage?

Yes…yes, that’s exactly what most of the comments are based on.

What would be a useful amount of storage?

Stoarage isn’t the major issue. They could install 10 GWH of batteries and it would make no difference. They need to get the energy into the grid and no-one is talking about the inverter requirements for this. Even if they installed 2 GW of inverters they they run into the issue of how they operate.

Inverters for this style of application normally run in an on-grid mode. This means that there needs to be a grid voltage already present before the inverters will connect to the grid. If the grid voltage fails, as it did when the interconnect from Victoria went down a few months ago, then the inverters will also disconnect from the grid leaving a black out condition.

The inverters can be configured to operate in an on-grid / off—grid mode. In this scenario they are generally connected on-grid and either charging the batteries or providing the grid with support power by discharging the batteries through the inverter. If the grid voltage fails the inverters will first turn off, but then a few seconds later turn back on in an off-grid mode. The caveat on this is that it requires that some very, very, very large switches be placed upstream to ensure that the grid cannot start up again through its normal supplies. The engineering design for such a scheme would require months to years of work before anyone touches it. The installation of such a scheme would require years, and cause massive disruption during the installation.

For an engineering company Tesla make very good marketers.

I wouldn’t trust Tesla to run a bath in 100 days.

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

sibeen said:

Yes…yes, that’s exactly what most of the comments are based on.

What would be a useful amount of storage?

Stoarage isn’t the major issue. They could install 10 GWH of batteries and it would make no difference. They need to get the energy into the grid and no-one is talking about the inverter requirements for this. Even if they installed 2 GW of inverters they they run into the issue of how they operate.

Inverters for this style of application normally run in an on-grid mode. This means that there needs to be a grid voltage already present before the inverters will connect to the grid. If the grid voltage fails, as it did when the interconnect from Victoria went down a few months ago, then the inverters will also disconnect from the grid leaving a black out condition.

The inverters can be configured to operate in an on-grid / off—grid mode. In this scenario they are generally connected on-grid and either charging the batteries or providing the grid with support power by discharging the batteries through the inverter. If the grid voltage fails the inverters will first turn off, but then a few seconds later turn back on in an off-grid mode. The caveat on this is that it requires that some very, very, very large switches be placed upstream to ensure that the grid cannot start up again through its normal supplies. The engineering design for such a scheme would require months to years of work before anyone touches it. The installation of such a scheme would require years, and cause massive disruption during the installation.

For an engineering company Tesla make very good marketers.

I wouldn’t trust Tesla to run a bath in 100 days.

What is the main issue?

grid switching, distribution?

Sounds like they need to design the whole system from scratch?

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

sibeen said:

Yes…yes, that’s exactly what most of the comments are based on.

What would be a useful amount of storage?

Stoarage isn’t the major issue. They could install 10 GWH of batteries and it would make no difference. They need to get the energy into the grid and no-one is talking about the inverter requirements for this. Even if they installed 2 GW of inverters they they run into the issue of how they operate.

Inverters for this style of application normally run in an on-grid mode. This means that there needs to be a grid voltage already present before the inverters will connect to the grid. If the grid voltage fails, as it did when the interconnect from Victoria went down a few months ago, then the inverters will also disconnect from the grid leaving a black out condition.

The inverters can be configured to operate in an on-grid / off—grid mode. In this scenario they are generally connected on-grid and either charging the batteries or providing the grid with support power by discharging the batteries through the inverter. If the grid voltage fails the inverters will first turn off, but then a few seconds later turn back on in an off-grid mode. The caveat on this is that it requires that some very, very, very large switches be placed upstream to ensure that the grid cannot start up again through its normal supplies. The engineering design for such a scheme would require months to years of work before anyone touches it. The installation of such a scheme would require years, and cause massive disruption during the installation.

For an engineering company Tesla make very good marketers.

I wouldn’t trust Tesla to run a bath in 100 days.

What if the batteries are wall mounted?

Peak Warming Man said:

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What would be a useful amount of storage?

Stoarage isn’t the major issue. They could install 10 GWH of batteries and it would make no difference. They need to get the energy into the grid and no-one is talking about the inverter requirements for this. Even if they installed 2 GW of inverters they they run into the issue of how they operate.

Inverters for this style of application normally run in an on-grid mode. This means that there needs to be a grid voltage already present before the inverters will connect to the grid. If the grid voltage fails, as it did when the interconnect from Victoria went down a few months ago, then the inverters will also disconnect from the grid leaving a black out condition.

The inverters can be configured to operate in an on-grid / off—grid mode. In this scenario they are generally connected on-grid and either charging the batteries or providing the grid with support power by discharging the batteries through the inverter. If the grid voltage fails the inverters will first turn off, but then a few seconds later turn back on in an off-grid mode. The caveat on this is that it requires that some very, very, very large switches be placed upstream to ensure that the grid cannot start up again through its normal supplies. The engineering design for such a scheme would require months to years of work before anyone touches it. The installation of such a scheme would require years, and cause massive disruption during the installation.

For an engineering company Tesla make very good marketers.

I wouldn’t trust Tesla to run a bath in 100 days.

What if the batteries are wall mounted?

lol

What if a few super computers did all the distribution analysis and load spread for the whole grid, and a few redundant systems tagged along.

Seems like a lot of old technology of the past needs replacing.

Peak Warming Man said:

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What would be a useful amount of storage?

Stoarage isn’t the major issue. They could install 10 GWH of batteries and it would make no difference. They need to get the energy into the grid and no-one is talking about the inverter requirements for this. Even if they installed 2 GW of inverters they they run into the issue of how they operate.

Inverters for this style of application normally run in an on-grid mode. This means that there needs to be a grid voltage already present before the inverters will connect to the grid. If the grid voltage fails, as it did when the interconnect from Victoria went down a few months ago, then the inverters will also disconnect from the grid leaving a black out condition.

The inverters can be configured to operate in an on-grid / off—grid mode. In this scenario they are generally connected on-grid and either charging the batteries or providing the grid with support power by discharging the batteries through the inverter. If the grid voltage fails the inverters will first turn off, but then a few seconds later turn back on in an off-grid mode. The caveat on this is that it requires that some very, very, very large switches be placed upstream to ensure that the grid cannot start up again through its normal supplies. The engineering design for such a scheme would require months to years of work before anyone touches it. The installation of such a scheme would require years, and cause massive disruption during the installation.

For an engineering company Tesla make very good marketers.

I wouldn’t trust Tesla to run a bath in 100 days.

What if the batteries are wall mounted?

what if?..

what if frogs had wings, they wouldn’t bump their arse when they hopped…

stumpy_seahorse said:

Peak Warming Man said:

sibeen said:

Stoarage isn’t the major issue. They could install 10 GWH of batteries and it would make no difference. They need to get the energy into the grid and no-one is talking about the inverter requirements for this. Even if they installed 2 GW of inverters they they run into the issue of how they operate.

Inverters for this style of application normally run in an on-grid mode. This means that there needs to be a grid voltage already present before the inverters will connect to the grid. If the grid voltage fails, as it did when the interconnect from Victoria went down a few months ago, then the inverters will also disconnect from the grid leaving a black out condition.

The inverters can be configured to operate in an on-grid / off—grid mode. In this scenario they are generally connected on-grid and either charging the batteries or providing the grid with support power by discharging the batteries through the inverter. If the grid voltage fails the inverters will first turn off, but then a few seconds later turn back on in an off-grid mode. The caveat on this is that it requires that some very, very, very large switches be placed upstream to ensure that the grid cannot start up again through its normal supplies. The engineering design for such a scheme would require months to years of work before anyone touches it. The installation of such a scheme would require years, and cause massive disruption during the installation.

For an engineering company Tesla make very good marketers.

I wouldn’t trust Tesla to run a bath in 100 days.

What if the batteries are wall mounted?

what if?..

what if frogs had wings, they wouldn’t bump their arse when they hopped…

that must annoy them

or maybe some of them find it enjoyable

must be a lot of thing that annoy some species

like those animals that grow curly horns, wtf

if only we had AC batteries.

Bogsnorkler said:

if only we had AC batteries.

I think Edison wanted the first grid to be DC.

Peak Warming Man said:

Bogsnorkler said:

if only we had AC batteries.

I think Edison wanted the first grid to be DC.

what did Angus, Malcolm and Bon want it to be?

Peak Warming Man said:

Bogsnorkler said:

if only we had AC batteries.

I think Edison wanted the first grid to be DC.

“As Edison was expanding his direct current (DC) power delivery system he began receiving stiff competition from companies installing alternating current (AC) systems. From the early 1880s on AC, arc lighting systems for streets and large spaces had been an expanding business in the US. With the development of transformers in Europe and by Westinghouse Electric in the US in 1885–1886, it became possible to transmit AC very long distances over thinner and cheaper wires, and “step down” the voltage at the destination for distribution to users. This allowed AC to be used not only in street lighting but also in lighting for small business and domestic customers, the market Edison’s patented low voltage DC incandescent lamp system had been designed to supply. Edison’s DC empire began suffering from one of its chief drawbacks: it was suitable only for the high density of customers found in large cities. Edison’s DC plants could not deliver electricity to customers who were more than one mile from the plant and the short range left a patchwork of un-supplied customers in-between plants. Small cities and rural areas could not afford an Edison style system at all. This left a large part of the market without electrical service and AC companies were expanding into this gap.”
Wiki.

“Tesla boss Elon Musk ‘very impressed’ after speaking with Jay Weatherill about SA power fix”

Sad.

Peak Warming Man said:

“Tesla boss Elon Musk ‘very impressed’ after speaking with Jay Weatherill about SA power fix”

Sad.

can’t have spoken to him for too long if he was ‘very impressed’..

takes about 2 minutes of speaking to realise what a peanut jay is

Peak Warming Man said:

“Tesla boss Elon Musk ‘very impressed’ after speaking with Jay Weatherill about SA power fix”

Sad.

I just hope JW is going in with his eyes open.

sibeen said:

dv said:

sibeen said:

Over at The Grauniad there is now over 2000 comments on this story.

Did most of the, like mine, include a level headed quantitative analysis of the usefulness of 100 MWh of storage?

Yes…yes, that’s exactly what most of the comments are based on.

PHEW

Tau.Neutrino said:

sibeen said:

dv said:

Did most of the, like mine, include a level headed quantitative analysis of the usefulness of 100 MWh of storage?

Yes…yes, that’s exactly what most of the comments are based on.

What would be a useful amount of storage?

In terms of “fixing” this problem, if you wanted to do it with powerwalls, you’d be looking at something like a hundred times that at least. Not that I’m suggesting that’s the best way to do it.

Peak Warming Man said:

What if the batteries are wall mounted?

Now if Trump built a Powerwall along the Mexican border that would really be something. One Wall could change it all.

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

sibeen said:

Yes…yes, that’s exactly what most of the comments are based on.

What would be a useful amount of storage?

Stoarage isn’t the major issue. They could install 10 GWH of batteries and it would make no difference. They need to get the energy into the grid and no-one is talking about the inverter requirements for this. Even if they installed 2 GW of inverters they they run into the issue of how they operate.

Inverters for this style of application normally run in an on-grid mode. This means that there needs to be a grid voltage already present before the inverters will connect to the grid. If the grid voltage fails, as it did when the interconnect from Victoria went down a few months ago, then the inverters will also disconnect from the grid leaving a black out condition.

The inverters can be configured to operate in an on-grid / off—grid mode. In this scenario they are generally connected on-grid and either charging the batteries or providing the grid with support power by discharging the batteries through the inverter. If the grid voltage fails the inverters will first turn off, but then a few seconds later turn back on in an off-grid mode. The caveat on this is that it requires that some very, very, very large switches be placed upstream to ensure that the grid cannot start up again through its normal supplies. The engineering design for such a scheme would require months to years of work before anyone touches it. The installation of such a scheme would require years, and cause massive disruption during the installation.

For an engineering company Tesla make very good marketers.

I wouldn’t trust Tesla to run a bath in 100 days.

Would it work as a peak demand supply if the grid was still up and running ok?

Bogsnorkler said:

sibeen said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What would be a useful amount of storage?

Stoarage isn’t the major issue. They could install 10 GWH of batteries and it would make no difference. They need to get the energy into the grid and no-one is talking about the inverter requirements for this. Even if they installed 2 GW of inverters they they run into the issue of how they operate.

Inverters for this style of application normally run in an on-grid mode. This means that there needs to be a grid voltage already present before the inverters will connect to the grid. If the grid voltage fails, as it did when the interconnect from Victoria went down a few months ago, then the inverters will also disconnect from the grid leaving a black out condition.

The inverters can be configured to operate in an on-grid / off—grid mode. In this scenario they are generally connected on-grid and either charging the batteries or providing the grid with support power by discharging the batteries through the inverter. If the grid voltage fails the inverters will first turn off, but then a few seconds later turn back on in an off-grid mode. The caveat on this is that it requires that some very, very, very large switches be placed upstream to ensure that the grid cannot start up again through its normal supplies. The engineering design for such a scheme would require months to years of work before anyone touches it. The installation of such a scheme would require years, and cause massive disruption during the installation.

For an engineering company Tesla make very good marketers.

I wouldn’t trust Tesla to run a bath in 100 days.

Would it work as a peak demand supply if the grid was still up and running ok?

Yep. Exactly what their systems do around the world. On-grid supply only.

so basically it wont fix all the problems but just help out when demand is high? bit like gas fired generators for fast response time. But if the power fails where these battery systems are connected, for any reason, then they are next to useless?

Bogsnorkler said:

so basically it wont fix all the problems but just help out when demand is high? bit like gas fired generators for fast response time. But if the power fails where these battery systems are connected, for any reason, then they are next to useless?

Well, it is very hard to tell. Tesla have promised that they can install 100+ MWH of batteries in the next 100 days. I could promise that I could deliver to a site somewhere in South Australia 100 tons of tapioca and it would have the same technical viability. Neither mean anything.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-11/could-the-tesla-powerpack-really-solve-sas-energy-woes/8345864

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-11/could-the-tesla-powerpack-really-solve-sas-energy-woes/8345864

It doesn’t actually address the issue of whether 100 MWh (or even 300 MWh) would be anywhere near enough to make a significant difference.

I doubt that sibeen will be impressed.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-11/could-the-tesla-powerpack-really-solve-sas-energy-woes/8345864

It doesn’t actually address the issue of whether 100 MWh (or even 300 MWh) would be anywhere near enough to make a significant difference.

I doubt that sibeen will be impressed.

Whats the capacity of the gas generator they installed recently?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-11/could-the-tesla-powerpack-really-solve-sas-energy-woes/8345864

It doesn’t actually address the issue of whether 100 MWh (or even 300 MWh) would be anywhere near enough to make a significant difference.

I doubt that sibeen will be impressed.

That’s why I posted it.

I like pumped hydro. Have for donkey’s years.

Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-11/could-the-tesla-powerpack-really-solve-sas-energy-woes/8345864

It doesn’t actually address the issue of whether 100 MWh (or even 300 MWh) would be anywhere near enough to make a significant difference.

I doubt that sibeen will be impressed.

That’s why I posted it.

I like pumped hydro. Have for donkey’s years.

Queensland are looking into using old mine shafts for pumped hydro.

Tamb said:

Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

It doesn’t actually address the issue of whether 100 MWh (or even 300 MWh) would be anywhere near enough to make a significant difference.

I doubt that sibeen will be impressed.

That’s why I posted it.

I like pumped hydro. Have for donkey’s years.

Queensland are looking into using old mine shafts for pumped hydro.

Never thought of that. Good idea.

Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-11/could-the-tesla-powerpack-really-solve-sas-energy-woes/8345864

It doesn’t actually address the issue of whether 100 MWh (or even 300 MWh) would be anywhere near enough to make a significant difference.

I doubt that sibeen will be impressed.

That’s why I posted it.

I like pumped hydro. Have for donkey’s years.

Pumped hydro makes sense. Though I fear our demand for electricity could see us locking up valuable fresh water. Now stored seawater may solve this in areas close to the sea.

Tamb said:

Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

It doesn’t actually address the issue of whether 100 MWh (or even 300 MWh) would be anywhere near enough to make a significant difference.

I doubt that sibeen will be impressed.

That’s why I posted it.

I like pumped hydro. Have for donkey’s years.

Queensland are looking into using old mine shafts for pumped hydro.

How does that work then?

BTW, just to illustrate how much things have changed with the ever-increasing rate of technology innovation and all that.

When I was about 15 or 16 (50 years ago) I visited a couple of new power plants in Wales.

One was nuclear, and the other pumped hydro.

AwesomeO said:

Tamb said:

Michael V said:

That’s why I posted it.

I like pumped hydro. Have for donkey’s years.

Queensland are looking into using old mine shafts for pumped hydro.

How does that work then?

I’m not sure. I was too slack to read the article.

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

It doesn’t actually address the issue of whether 100 MWh (or even 300 MWh) would be anywhere near enough to make a significant difference.

I doubt that sibeen will be impressed.

That’s why I posted it.

I like pumped hydro. Have for donkey’s years.

Pumped hydro makes sense. Though I fear our demand for electricity could see us locking up valuable fresh water. Now stored seawater may solve this in areas close to the sea.

Solar powered pumped water would be great

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-11/could-the-tesla-powerpack-really-solve-sas-energy-woes/8345864

It doesn’t actually address the issue of whether 100 MWh (or even 300 MWh) would be anywhere near enough to make a significant difference.

I doubt that sibeen will be impressed.

And on that you would be correct, Rev :)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-12/elon-musk-malcolm-turnbull-in-talks-on-renewables/8347554

bangs head on desk

sibeen said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-12/elon-musk-malcolm-turnbull-in-talks-on-renewables/8347554

bangs head on desk

You mean that Malcolm Turnbull is smart enough to talk to Elon Musk?

Good!

sibeen said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-12/elon-musk-malcolm-turnbull-in-talks-on-renewables/8347554

bangs head on desk

“Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull says he has held a “great in depth discussion” with Elon Musk, after the billionaire tech entrepreneur offered to fix South Australia’s energy problems within 100 days.

On Friday, Mr Musk said energy storage could solve the state’s electricity problems with a Tesla battery farm, and work could be completed within 100 days, or it would be free.

Turnbull said that he was happy sticking with our current dirty polluting 19th century sources of electricity generation if Musk sticks to his shiny clean 21st century ones.”

Ian said:

sibeen said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-12/elon-musk-malcolm-turnbull-in-talks-on-renewables/8347554

bangs head on desk

“Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull says he has held a “great in depth discussion” with Elon Musk, after the billionaire tech entrepreneur offered to fix South Australia’s energy problems within 100 days.

On Friday, Mr Musk said energy storage could solve the state’s electricity problems with a Tesla battery farm, and work could be completed within 100 days, or it would be free.

Turnbull said that he was happy sticking with our current dirty polluting 19th century sources of electricity generation if Musk sticks to his shiny clean 21st century ones.”

You do realise that the batteries Musk is talking about store energy. They don’t care where the energy comes from. It could come from dirty polluting coal, or pristine solar, or whiter than white hydro. The battery does not produce any energy by itself.

Really?

Ref!

sibeen: 2017.

Fake Reference! SAD!

Michael V said:

Fake Reference! SAD!

But I did manage to work in “MUSK STICKS”

Michael V said:

Fake Reference! SAD!

But I did manage to work in “MUSK STICKS”

AwesomeO said:

Tamb said:

Michael V said:

That’s why I posted it.

I like pumped hydro. Have for donkey’s years.

Queensland are looking into using old mine shafts for pumped hydro.

How does that work then?

I’m unsure…

pumped hydro works by essentially storing energy in the system by raising the gravitational potential energy… I can’t see how using underground workings to store water would work unless the storage reservoir is at a higher relative level than the generator

diddly-squat said:

AwesomeO said:

Tamb said:

Queensland are looking into using old mine shafts for pumped hydro.

How does that work then?

I’m unsure…

pumped hydro works by essentially storing energy in the system by raising the gravitational potential energy… I can’t see how using underground workings to store water would work unless the storage reservoir is at a higher relative level than the generator

I’m not sure what the mystery to this is. For pumped storage you need a high level water store and either a low level store or a reliable low level water source, plus a low level generator/pump. If you don’t have any mountains handy then using mine shafts to connect ground level water stores to a generator at a much lower level seems like a good idea to me.

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

AwesomeO said:

How does that work then?

I’m unsure…

pumped hydro works by essentially storing energy in the system by raising the gravitational potential energy… I can’t see how using underground workings to store water would work unless the storage reservoir is at a higher relative level than the generator

I’m not sure what the mystery to this is. For pumped storage you need a high level water store and either a low level store or a reliable low level water source, plus a low level generator/pump. If you don’t have any mountains handy then using mine shafts to connect ground level water stores to a generator at a much lower level seems like a good idea to me.

the only problem is that mine workings don’t typically contain large open voids available to do this sort of thing..

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

I’m unsure…

pumped hydro works by essentially storing energy in the system by raising the gravitational potential energy… I can’t see how using underground workings to store water would work unless the storage reservoir is at a higher relative level than the generator

I’m not sure what the mystery to this is. For pumped storage you need a high level water store and either a low level store or a reliable low level water source, plus a low level generator/pump. If you don’t have any mountains handy then using mine shafts to connect ground level water stores to a generator at a much lower level seems like a good idea to me.

the only problem is that mine workings don’t typically contain large open voids available to do this sort of thing..

OK, but having a shaft going down a km or 10 would be a worthwhile saving, even if you had to excavate a void at the bottom, wouldn’t it?

I guess the other question is whether the tunnels provide sufficient storage to make it worthwhile, and whether they will remain stable if they are continually be flooded and drained.

>>will remain stable if they are continually be flooded and drained.

Bingo.

Peak Warming Man said:

>>will remain stable if they are continually be flooded and drained.

Bingo.

well apart from the English :)

There’d be a number of engineering challenges. Are they planning to use pipes down the shaft or just use the shaft itself? If the latter then you’ll need at least two shafts so that you can service the equipment. I would not dismiss it out of hand, a 1 km drop is nothing to sneeze at, so it would just depend on how the costs compare to other storage methods.

I can’t see the The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m not sure what the mystery to this is. For pumped storage you need a high level water store and either a low level store or a reliable low level water source, plus a low level generator/pump. If you don’t have any mountains handy then using mine shafts to connect ground level water stores to a generator at a much lower level seems like a good idea to me.

the only problem is that mine workings don’t typically contain large open voids available to do this sort of thing..

OK, but having a shaft going down a km or 10 would be a worthwhile saving, even if you had to excavate a void at the bottom, wouldn’t it?

I guess the other question is whether the tunnels provide sufficient storage to make it worthwhile, and whether they will remain stable if they are continually be flooded and drained.

I guess it’s all a matter of scale, but I’d be surprised if there were significant enough volume to make it worth it on large (industrial) scales… the other problem you would have is that there would likely be a lot of remedial works necessary to make the tunnels suitable for long term water storage.

I wouldn’t bother mucking around with all of that. Tesla will be able to come in and have a working system up and running within a fortnight.

sibeen said:

I wouldn’t bother mucking around with all of that. Tesla will be able to come in and have a working system up and running within a fortnight.

well 7.143 fortnights.

sibeen said:

I wouldn’t bother mucking around with all of that. Tesla will be able to come in and have a working system up and running within a fortnight.

You really hate old Elon don’t you…

sibeen said:

I wouldn’t bother mucking around with all of that. Tesla will be able to come in and have a working system up and running within a fortnight.

well maybe if you guys got your i’s and j’s sorted we wouldn’t be in this problem in the first place..

;)

diddly-squat said:

I can’t see the The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

the only problem is that mine workings don’t typically contain large open voids available to do this sort of thing..

OK, but having a shaft going down a km or 10 would be a worthwhile saving, even if you had to excavate a void at the bottom, wouldn’t it?

I guess the other question is whether the tunnels provide sufficient storage to make it worthwhile, and whether they will remain stable if they are continually be flooded and drained.

I guess it’s all a matter of scale, but I’d be surprised if there were significant enough volume to make it worth it on large (industrial) scales… the other problem you would have is that there would likely be a lot of remedial works necessary to make the tunnels suitable for long term water storage.

If you had already had a sizeable dam that was in the vicinity of a mine shaft, then the extra drop would be a bonus.
Depending what it costs to build an underground pump station, which I’ve no idea of.

diddly-squat said:

sibeen said:

I wouldn’t bother mucking around with all of that. Tesla will be able to come in and have a working system up and running within a fortnight.

well maybe if you guys got your i’s and j’s sorted we wouldn’t be in this problem in the first place..

;)

Hahahahahahahaha!

:)

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

I can’t see the The Rev Dodgson said:

OK, but having a shaft going down a km or 10 would be a worthwhile saving, even if you had to excavate a void at the bottom, wouldn’t it?

I guess the other question is whether the tunnels provide sufficient storage to make it worthwhile, and whether they will remain stable if they are continually be flooded and drained.

I guess it’s all a matter of scale, but I’d be surprised if there were significant enough volume to make it worth it on large (industrial) scales… the other problem you would have is that there would likely be a lot of remedial works necessary to make the tunnels suitable for long term water storage.

If you had already had a sizeable dam that was in the vicinity of a mine shaft, then the extra drop would be a bonus.
Depending what it costs to build an underground pump station, which I’ve no idea of.

well yes… but you would still need a sizable reservoir at the bottom of the mine to make a pumped storage system work effectively…

Interestingly, underground mines deteriorate less filled with water than they do filled with air.

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

I can’t see the

I guess it’s all a matter of scale, but I’d be surprised if there were significant enough volume to make it worth it on large (industrial) scales… the other problem you would have is that there would likely be a lot of remedial works necessary to make the tunnels suitable for long term water storage.

If you had already had a sizeable dam that was in the vicinity of a mine shaft, then the extra drop would be a bonus.
Depending what it costs to build an underground pump station, which I’ve no idea of.

well yes… but you would still need a sizable reservoir at the bottom of the mine to make a pumped storage system work effectively…

I suspect the notion might have not been underground mines, but open pits for one part of the storage/ pumping system. We had no reference documents to the system’s design. Many people confuse mining terms. Non-technical people often equate “mine shaft” with “mine”.

To take maybe Australia’s biggest examples…

Mount Isa supposedly has 200 km of tunnels. I dunno what the average cross-section is … three square metres maybe? So the whole thing flooded might hold 600 megalitres.

If the mean depth of this water is say 1200 metres, then the whole thing might be able to store 2000 MWh. Lot of uncertainty in these calcs but something like that.

dv said:

To take maybe Australia’s biggest examples…

Mount Isa supposedly has 200 km of tunnels. I dunno what the average cross-section is … three square metres maybe? So the whole thing flooded might hold 600 megalitres.

If the mean depth of this water is say 1200 metres, then the whole thing might be able to store 2000 MWh. Lot of uncertainty in these calcs but something like that.

I wonder how much of that 200km would be in a condition suitable for water storage… one of the really big problems you would face with a system like this would be the interconnection between levels due to fracturing in the rock mass…

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

To take maybe Australia’s biggest examples…

Mount Isa supposedly has 200 km of tunnels. I dunno what the average cross-section is … three square metres maybe? So the whole thing flooded might hold 600 megalitres.

If the mean depth of this water is say 1200 metres, then the whole thing might be able to store 2000 MWh. Lot of uncertainty in these calcs but something like that.

I wonder how much of that 200km would be in a condition suitable for water storage… one of the really big problems you would face with a system like this would be the interconnection between levels due to fracturing in the rock mass…

Yes

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

To take maybe Australia’s biggest examples…

Mount Isa supposedly has 200 km of tunnels. I dunno what the average cross-section is … three square metres maybe? So the whole thing flooded might hold 600 megalitres.

If the mean depth of this water is say 1200 metres, then the whole thing might be able to store 2000 MWh. Lot of uncertainty in these calcs but something like that.

I wonder how much of that 200km would be in a condition suitable for water storage… one of the really big problems you would face with a system like this would be the interconnection between levels due to fracturing in the rock mass…

Why would that be a problem? There’s plenty of man-made interconnectedness.

Michael V said:

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

To take maybe Australia’s biggest examples…

Mount Isa supposedly has 200 km of tunnels. I dunno what the average cross-section is … three square metres maybe? So the whole thing flooded might hold 600 megalitres.

If the mean depth of this water is say 1200 metres, then the whole thing might be able to store 2000 MWh. Lot of uncertainty in these calcs but something like that.

I wonder how much of that 200km would be in a condition suitable for water storage… one of the really big problems you would face with a system like this would be the interconnection between levels due to fracturing in the rock mass…

Why would that be a problem? There’s plenty of man-made interconnectedness.

because in order for the system to work you would need to seperate the min einto an upper reservoir and a lower one.. uncontroled connections would be a form of energy leakage

diddly-squat said:

Michael V said:

diddly-squat said:

I wonder how much of that 200km would be in a condition suitable for water storage… one of the really big problems you would face with a system like this would be the interconnection between levels due to fracturing in the rock mass…

Why would that be a problem? There’s plenty of man-made interconnectedness.

because in order for the system to work you would need to seperate the min einto an upper reservoir and a lower one..

unless the upper reservoir is exterior to the mine

diddly-squat said:

Michael V said:

diddly-squat said:

I wonder how much of that 200km would be in a condition suitable for water storage… one of the really big problems you would face with a system like this would be the interconnection between levels due to fracturing in the rock mass…

Why would that be a problem? There’s plenty of man-made interconnectedness.

because in order for the system to work you would need to seperate the min einto an upper reservoir and a lower one.. uncontroled connections would be a form of energy leakage

Oh, I see. I thought the system would have a remote upper storage – say a dam, and use the mine as the lower reservoir, with the generator between the two.

What do the sums look like for pumped hydro.
I reckon as a self contained closed system without an elevated catchment it wouldn’t be viable.

Peak Warming Man said:

What do the sums look like for pumped hydro.
I reckon as a self contained closed system without an elevated catchment it wouldn’t be viable.

Well I did hear one calculation that Mt Isa Mines would be worth about 2000 MWh, highly reliable source, the best source.

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

What do the sums look like for pumped hydro.
I reckon as a self contained closed system without an elevated catchment it wouldn’t be viable.

Well I did hear one calculation that Mt Isa Mines would be worth about 2000 MWh, highly reliable source, the best source.

bit of uncertainty in those calcs though…

I reckon the amont of renewable electricity needed to raise massive amounts of water to elevated storage would be way way more than what you would get out of it going down. I reckon a cost analysis would make it unviable.

Peak Warming Man said:

I reckon the amont of renewable electricity needed to raise massive amounts of water to elevated storage would be way way more than what you would get out of it going down. I reckon a cost analysis would make it unviable.

ROFL, nice one Centurion

• I reckon the amont of renewable electricity needed to raise massive amounts of water to elevated storage would be way way more than what you would get out of it going down. I reckon a cost analysis would make it unviable.

There would be losses but all those losses are free…

furious said:

• I reckon the amont of renewable electricity needed to raise massive amounts of water to elevated storage would be way way more than what you would get out of it going down. I reckon a cost analysis would make it unviable.

There would be losses but all those losses are free…

Well no they’re not, the massive infrastructure, the running costs and maintenance aren’t free.
Just to build in a redundancy of 3 days when the sun don’t shine and the wind don’t blow would be expensive in it’s self.
Nah, good idea but in practice I don’t think this dog is going to hunt, there’s got to be a better way.

Peak Warming Man said:

furious said:

• I reckon the amont of renewable electricity needed to raise massive amounts of water to elevated storage would be way way more than what you would get out of it going down. I reckon a cost analysis would make it unviable.

There would be losses but all those losses are free…

Well no they’re not, the massive infrastructure, the running costs and maintenance aren’t free.
Just to build in a redundancy of 3 days when the sun don’t shine and the wind don’t blow would be expensive in it’s self.
Nah, good idea but in practice I don’t think this dog is going to hunt, there’s got to be a better way.

I’m not married to the idea either, there are as I said engineering challenges this idea would need to overcome.
There are a stack of different storage methods and ultimately it will come down to price.

We need a lot of hamsters and a very big wheel.

What’s the problem with capacitors?
I’m sure they don’t work very well otherwise it would have been done by now.

• there’s got to be a better way.

Use renewables to produce hydrogen, and store that, or take it a step further and produce methane…

Peak Warming Man said:

furious said:

• I reckon the amont of renewable electricity needed to raise massive amounts of water to elevated storage would be way way more than what you would get out of it going down. I reckon a cost analysis would make it unviable.

There would be losses but all those losses are free…

Well no they’re not, the massive infrastructure, the running costs and maintenance aren’t free.
Just to build in a redundancy of 3 days when the sun don’t shine and the wind don’t blow would be expensive in it’s self.
Nah, good idea but in practice I don’t think this dog is going to hunt, there’s got to be a better way.

The concept behind it is that when there is excess energy available, this method stores it in a fashion that costs very little to get it back when it is urgently in demand.

Peak Warming Man said:

What’s the problem with capacitors?
I’m sure they don’t work very well otherwise it would have been done by now.

Cost per GWh, mostly.

Peak Warming Man said:

furious said:

• I reckon the amont of renewable electricity needed to raise massive amounts of water to elevated storage would be way way more than what you would get out of it going down. I reckon a cost analysis would make it unviable.

There would be losses but all those losses are free…

Well no they’re not, the massive infrastructure, the running costs and maintenance aren’t free.
Just to build in a redundancy of 3 days when the sun don’t shine and the wind don’t blow would be expensive in it’s self.
Nah, good idea but in practice I don’t think this dog is going to hunt, there’s got to be a better way.

whats a piddle redundancy of three days when its built into the life time of the infrastructure?

Peak Warming Man said:

What’s the problem with capacitors?
I’m sure they don’t work very well otherwise it would have been done by now.

They do run all the ecodrive watches out there.

The integrated power box at the redoubt continues to charge the batteries for about 15 minutes after I disconnect the solar panels, must have a decent capacitor in there.

furious said:

• there’s got to be a better way.

Use renewables to produce hydrogen, and store that, or take it a step further and produce methane…

.
Except storing energy in hydrogen or methane, then burning it to convert it back to electricity is way way more inefficient than pumped storage.

Still, it probably has its place.

The Rev Dodgson said:

furious said:

• there’s got to be a better way.

Use renewables to produce hydrogen, and store that, or take it a step further and produce methane…

.
Except storing energy in hydrogen or methane, then burning it to convert it back to electricity is way way more inefficient than pumped storage.

Still, it probably has its place.

At the moment, burning diesel is cheaper.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Peak Warming Man said:

furious said:

• I reckon the amont of renewable electricity needed to raise massive amounts of water to elevated storage would be way way more than what you would get out of it going down. I reckon a cost analysis would make it unviable.

There would be losses but all those losses are free…

Well no they’re not, the massive infrastructure, the running costs and maintenance aren’t free.
Just to build in a redundancy of 3 days when the sun don’t shine and the wind don’t blow would be expensive in it’s self.
Nah, good idea but in practice I don’t think this dog is going to hunt, there’s got to be a better way.

whats a piddle redundancy of three days when its built into the life time of the infrastructure?

whats a redundancy of three days when its built into the life time of the infrastructure?

Peak Warming Man said:

What’s the problem with capacitors?
I’m sure they don’t work very well otherwise it would have been done by now.

They are just shit at storing energy.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Well no they’re not, the massive infrastructure, the running costs and maintenance aren’t free.
Just to build in a redundancy of 3 days when the sun don’t shine and the wind don’t blow would be expensive in it’s self.
Nah, good idea but in practice I don’t think this dog is going to hunt, there’s got to be a better way.

whats a piddle redundancy of three days when its built into the life time of the infrastructure?

whats a redundancy of three days when its built into the life time of the infrastructure?

to how long you can keep a plant running without supply.
In iron ore or coal plants they use stockpiles, in this case the stockpile would be the elevated dam.
To build in just a 3 day redundancy would involve significant capital costs.

Just to bring it back to the OP…

Note that the problems that need to be fixed in SA don’t really have anything to do with production intermittency or storage. They need to fix the commercial arrangements that they have with private companies to make sure proper incentives are in place to turn on their backup plants in the event of weather-related transmission problems.

Peak Warming Man said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

whats a piddle redundancy of three days when its built into the life time of the infrastructure?

whats a redundancy of three days when its built into the life time of the infrastructure?

to how long you can keep a plant running without supply.
In iron ore or coal plants they use stockpiles, in this case the stockpile would be the elevated dam.
To build in just a 3 day redundancy would involve significant capital costs.

This is entirely South Australia’s fault

send them back to the steam revolution

Then they can progress into the future from a new starting point.

dv said:

Just to bring it back to the OP…

Note that the problems that need to be fixed in SA don’t really have anything to do with production intermittency or storage. They need to fix the commercial arrangements that they have with private companies to make sure proper incentives are in place to turn on their backup plants in the event of weather-related transmission problems.

and fix things so the operator at the backup gas generator actually turns on the gas generator when there is a phone call

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

What’s the problem with capacitors?
I’m sure they don’t work very well otherwise it would have been done by now.

Cost per GWh, mostly.

To highlight this … a 5000 F capacitor might cost $150, which is pretty cheap per farad compared to small capacitors. That’s $150 for 0.01 kWh of storage. Do the maths.

dv said:

Just to bring it back to the OP…

Note that the problems that need to be fixed in SA don’t really have anything to do with production intermittency or storage. They need to fix the commercial arrangements that they have with private companies to make sure proper incentives are in place to turn on their backup plants in the event of weather-related transmission problems.

Do they have enough coal/gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

• Do they have enough coal/gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

They have a lot of uranium…

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Just to bring it back to the OP…

Note that the problems that need to be fixed in SA don’t really have anything to do with production intermittency or storage. They need to fix the commercial arrangements that they have with private companies to make sure proper incentives are in place to turn on their backup plants in the event of weather-related transmission problems.

Do they have enough coal/gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

They have enough renewables and gas to run without interstate links. They don’t have any need to restart coal.

furious said:

• Do they have enough coal/gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

They have a lot of uranium…

I’d like to see them have more, I’d like to see them have a uranium suppository.
I’d like to see SA stand up and say, give us your depleted uranium, gives us your huddled plutonium.

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Just to bring it back to the OP…

Note that the problems that need to be fixed in SA don’t really have anything to do with production intermittency or storage. They need to fix the commercial arrangements that they have with private companies to make sure proper incentives are in place to turn on their backup plants in the event of weather-related transmission problems.

Do they have enough coal/gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

They have enough renewables and gas to run without interstate links. They don’t have any need to restart coal.

Ok.
Do they have enough gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Just to bring it back to the OP…

Note that the problems that need to be fixed in SA don’t really have anything to do with production intermittency or storage. They need to fix the commercial arrangements that they have with private companies to make sure proper incentives are in place to turn on their backup plants in the event of weather-related transmission problems.

Do they have enough coal/gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

They have enough renewables and gas to run without interstate links. They don’t have any need to restart coal.

But why would they want to do it without interstate links anyway? They just need to make them reasonably reliable.

Got to say, South Australia seems like a dreamland for nuclear power. Fuckloads and uranium and thorium, huge areas of basically useless land not too far from the state capital, and some large areas of stable geology.

furious said:

• Do they have enough coal/gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

They have a lot of uranium…

yeah, use that to drive steam engines

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Do they have enough coal/gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

They have enough renewables and gas to run without interstate links. They don’t have any need to restart coal.

Ok.
Do they have enough gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

No.

They have enough gas and renewables to run without interstate links.

But they don’t have enough renewables to run without interstate links, and they don’t have enough gas power installed to run without interstate links.

But who gives a toss? They aren’t going to lose their renewables or gas power, so this is kind of a hypothetical question.

dv said:

But who gives a toss? They aren’t going to lose their renewables or gas power, so this is kind of a hypothetical question.

Presumably PWM is concerned about the occasions when it is cloudy and windless across the state.

What do they do in South Australia anyway?

But what I want to know is why everybody is so bloody concerned about the odd power cut in SA, but no-one gives a damn that we have an hour or two without power here in N Sydney every time there is a reasonable sized storm.

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

They have enough renewables and gas to run without interstate links. They don’t have any need to restart coal.

Ok.
Do they have enough gas capacity to run SA without renewables and interstate links?

No.

They have enough gas and renewables to run without interstate links.

But they don’t have enough renewables to run without interstate links, and they don’t have enough gas power installed to run without interstate links.

But who gives a toss? They aren’t going to lose their renewables or gas power, so this is kind of a hypothetical question.

Well they are ‘ken crazy to get themselves into a position where they have to rely on intermittent renewables and a tenuous link with Victoria that is about to shut down Hazelwood.
So it really is about renewables.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

But who gives a toss? They aren’t going to lose their renewables or gas power, so this is kind of a hypothetical question.

Presumably PWM is concerned about the occasions when it is cloudy and windless across the state.

Windpower is as reliable as balls in South Australia.

The Rev Dodgson said:

But what I want to know is why everybody is so bloody concerned about the odd power cut in SA, but no-one gives a damn that we have an hour or two without power here in N Sydney every time there is a reasonable sized storm.

In both cases, the root cause was privatisation.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

But who gives a toss? They aren’t going to lose their renewables or gas power, so this is kind of a hypothetical question.

Presumably PWM is concerned about the occasions when it is cloudy and windless across the state.

Windpower is as reliable as balls in South Australia.

How reliable are SA balls?

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

But what I want to know is why everybody is so bloody concerned about the odd power cut in SA, but no-one gives a damn that we have an hour or two without power here in N Sydney every time there is a reasonable sized storm.

In both cases, the root cause was privatisation.

Actually I’m not sure that’s right (here in NSW anyway).

Things have actually been much better for the last couple of years since they replaced our poles, but the unreliable supply was a problem well before privatisation.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

But what I want to know is why everybody is so bloody concerned about the odd power cut in SA, but no-one gives a damn that we have an hour or two without power here in N Sydney every time there is a reasonable sized storm.

In both cases, the root cause was privatisation.

Actually I’m not sure that’s right (here in NSW anyway).

Things have actually been much better for the last couple of years since they replaced our poles, but the unreliable supply was a problem well before privatisation.

It is in SA’s case, their gas plant was running at ~50% and the powers that be decided to cut power to homes instead of increase its output, iirc.

dv said:

In both cases, the root cause was privatisation.

You could argue that it was private companies pursuing greater profits that led to the gold-plating of the electrical infrastructure in Victoria in the last decade or so. I don’t think you could make the case that only public utilities will best invest in their infrastructure.

poikilotherm said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

In both cases, the root cause was privatisation.

Actually I’m not sure that’s right (here in NSW anyway).

Things have actually been much better for the last couple of years since they replaced our poles, but the unreliable supply was a problem well before privatisation.

It is in SA’s case, their gas plant was running at ~50% and the powers that be decided to cut power to homes instead of increase its output, iirc.

So sounds like the answer is to fix the payment system so the logical business choice is to keep the power running whenever it is physically possible to do so.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

But what I want to know is why everybody is so bloody concerned about the odd power cut in SA, but no-one gives a damn that we have an hour or two without power here in N Sydney every time there is a reasonable sized storm.

In both cases, the root cause was privatisation.

Actually I’m not sure that’s right (here in NSW anyway).

Things have actually been much better for the last couple of years since they replaced our poles, but the unreliable supply was a problem well before privatisation.

I’m with DV on privatization of essential services, these services shouldn’t be profit based.

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

In both cases, the root cause was privatisation.

Actually I’m not sure that’s right (here in NSW anyway).

Things have actually been much better for the last couple of years since they replaced our poles, but the unreliable supply was a problem well before privatisation.

I’m with DV on privatization of essential services, these services shouldn’t be profit based.

Good luck with getting our food and housing supply services de-privatised.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Actually I’m not sure that’s right (here in NSW anyway).

Things have actually been much better for the last couple of years since they replaced our poles, but the unreliable supply was a problem well before privatisation.

I’m with DV on privatization of essential services, these services shouldn’t be profit based.

Good luck with getting our food and housing supply services de-privatised.

There are few places one can ‘shop’ around for electricity…

I decided to re-read A Short History of Planet Earth (Ian Plimer). Then I wondered what he is doing these days, he seems to have gone quiet. I see there is a mineral named after him. According to Wikipedia.

buffy said:

I decided to re-read A Short History of Planet Earth (Ian Plimer). Then I wondered what he is doing these days, he seems to have gone quiet. I see there is a mineral named after him. According to Wikipedia.

Too busy climate change denying while investing in mine exploration.

• Then I wondered what he is doing these days, he seems to have gone quiet. I see there is a mineral named after him.

Maybe he is hiding under that rock?

Sorry, wrong thread.

Lyon Group partner David Green told Business PM that his company was better placed than Tesla to quickly deliver a battery solution for South Australia’s energy problems.

“As I understand it, their hundred day pledge is a hundred days from when they sign the contract,” he said.

“Before you get to the stage of being able to sign a contract to deliver a project there’s about nine months worth of work that goes into identifying the land, going through the network connection process, extensive assessment of network flows and identifying the appropriate configuration of your project.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-13/battery-companies-say-they-are-ahead-of-tesla/8349724

Fair dinkum.

you coulda been a consultant. you coulda been somebody,…

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-13/tesla-power-fix-unlikely-despite-elon-musk-pitch/8350026

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-13/tesla-power-fix-unlikely-despite-elon-musk-pitch/8350026

sibeen will be happy now.

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-13/tesla-power-fix-unlikely-despite-elon-musk-pitch/8350026

sibeen will be happy now.

That’s a Good Thing.

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-13/elon-musk-killed-and-cannibalised-by-rival-chimpanzees/8350026

sibeen will be happy now.

Probably

dv said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-13/elon-musk-killed-and-cannibalised-by-rival-chimpanzees/8350026

sibeen will be happy now.

Probably

still ironic in that elon should go by way of battery…

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen will be happy now.

Probably

still ironic in that elon should go by way of battery…

zing

k

dv said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-13/elon-musk-killed-and-cannibalised-by-rival-chimpanzees/8350026

sibeen will be happy now.

Probably

Nup. There’s thousands of numpties out there who wont hear a bad word about Tesla and their products and this marketing coup of the last few days has only enforced this. Makes me sad.

sibeen said:

dv said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen will be happy now.

Probably

Nup. There’s thousands of numpties out there who wont hear a bad word about Tesla and their products and this marketing coup of the last few days has only enforced this. Makes me sad.

But Elron has been killed and eaten by chimps!!!!

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

dv said:

Probably

Nup. There’s thousands of numpties out there who wont hear a bad word about Tesla and their products and this marketing coup of the last few days has only enforced this. Makes me sad.

But Elron has been killed and eaten by chimps!!!!

His most charitable act?

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

dv said:

Probably

Nup. There’s thousands of numpties out there who wont hear a bad word about Tesla and their products and this marketing coup of the last few days has only enforced this. Makes me sad.

But Elron has been killed and eaten by chimps!!!!

Nron was the prick.

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-13/tesla-power-fix-unlikely-despite-elon-musk-pitch/8350026

sibeen will be happy now.

That looks like a reasonable article, to my inexpert eye.

So the question is, why are the ABC still talking (at length) to a guy who admits to knowing bugger all about electricity supply, and whose sole expertise seems to be making a lot of money out of software, and making tweets that get noticed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cannon-Brookes

This is the best thing that could ever happen to Australia.

Here we have a professional, who is also a visionary, technologist, who knows money, who makes instant decisions, who advises politicians, and who is willing to risk many millions of dollars at the drop of a hat.

This is an extremely rare combination of talents that doesn’t exist in Australia and hasn’t existed in Australia since … since ever?

mollwollfumble said:

This is the best thing that could ever happen to Australia.

Here we have a professional, who is also a visionary, technologist, who knows money, who makes instant decisions, who advises politicians, and who is willing to risk many millions of dollars at the drop of a hat.

This is an extremely rare combination of talents that doesn’t exist in Australia and hasn’t existed in Australia since … since ever?

lol

mollwollfumble said:

This is the best thing that could ever happen to Australia.

Here we have a professional, who is also a visionary, technologist, who knows money, who makes instant decisions, who advises politicians, and who is willing to risk many millions of dollars at the drop of a hat.

This is an extremely rare combination of talents that doesn’t exist in Australia and hasn’t existed in Australia since … since ever?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-14/sa-government-to-announce-power-intervention-strategy/8350878

sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

This is the best thing that could ever happen to Australia.

Here we have a professional, who is also a visionary, technologist, who knows money, who makes instant decisions, who advises politicians, and who is willing to risk many millions of dollars at the drop of a hat.

This is an extremely rare combination of talents that doesn’t exist in Australia and hasn’t existed in Australia since … since ever?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Looks like you should have flagged the obviously intended irony more obviously.

Surveying the on-line news pieces on this, MV’s link from yesterday is the only one I have seen that clearly mentions that negotiations for battery storage systems in SA have been underway for months.

Musk’s offer is pure marketing hype, and the meeja have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Surveying the on-line news pieces on this, MV’s link from yesterday is the only one I have seen that clearly mentions that negotiations for battery storage systems in SA have been underway for months.

Musk’s offer is pure marketing hype, and the meeja have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

Most of Musk is Marketing.

poikilotherm said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Surveying the on-line news pieces on this, MV’s link from yesterday is the only one I have seen that clearly mentions that negotiations for battery storage systems in SA have been underway for months.

Musk’s offer is pure marketing hype, and the meeja have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

Most of Musk is Marketing.

always left a bad taste in my mouth.

Guardian Australia
16 mins ·

#BREAKING: South Australia will spend $500m on the nation’s largest battery storage and gas-fired power plant to solve the state’s looming energy crisis, premier Jay Weatherill has just announced.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2017/mar/14/sa-energy-plan-this-is-about-taking-charge-says-jay-weatherill-politics-live?CMP=soc_567

“It has announced a plan to build, own and operate a $360 million, 250-megawatt gas-fired plant to provide power grid stability and for emergency power needs.”

According to DV the disproportion of gas v weak unreliable intermittent busted arsed renewables is not the problem.

What besides incompetence and corruption would create a problem where a first world nation suffers from power supply problem.

Peak Warming Man said:

“It has announced a plan to build, own and operate a $360 million, 250-megawatt gas-fired plant to provide power grid stability and for emergency power needs.”

According to DV the disproportion of gas v weak unreliable intermittent busted arsed renewables is not the problem.

DV would be correct, Engie chose not to turn on their gas turbines when the blackout occurred. This new plant will cause the same problem, gas that’s too expensive and a supply chain that makes more money by blacking out tens of thousands of grid users.

Cymek said:

What besides incompetence and corruption would create a problem where a first world nation suffers from power supply problem.

privatisation it’s called.

Also seems silly to build another gas plant when the offline one at Pelican Point had no gas supposedly…

https://www.aemo.com.au/-/media/Files/Electricity/NEM/Market_Notices_and_Events/Power_System_Incident_Reports/2017/System-Event-Report-South-Australia-8-February-2017.pdf

@1739

poikilotherm said:

Cymek said:

What besides incompetence and corruption would create a problem where a first world nation suffers from power supply problem.

privatisation it’s called.

Yeah that sounds about right, power supply should be a government responsibility and be covered as a basic human right

Cymek said:

What besides incompetence and corruption would create a problem where a first world nation suffers from power supply problem.

Storms causing the failure of part of the supply system, amongst many other things.

Cymek said:

poikilotherm said:

Cymek said:

What besides incompetence and corruption would create a problem where a first world nation suffers from power supply problem.

privatisation it’s called.

Yeah that sounds about right, power supply should be a government responsibility and be covered as a basic human right

It is a little bit California electricity crisis.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

What besides incompetence and corruption would create a problem where a first world nation suffers from power supply problem.

Storms causing the failure of part of the supply system, amongst many other things.

That would be a short time frame problem but it seems grids are unable to cope with demands when they should be more than capable of demands placed upon it.

Cymek said:

poikilotherm said:

Cymek said:

What besides incompetence and corruption would create a problem where a first world nation suffers from power supply problem.

privatisation it’s called.

Yeah that sounds about right, power supply should be a government responsibility and be covered as a basic human right

In as far as misuse of available resources was part of the problem, fixing the financial arrangements to impose appropriate penalties in the event of supply failures would be at least as good a solution as re-nationalisation. Probably better.

I assume that’s part of what the SA government is proposing (but I haven’t checked that).

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

poikilotherm said:

privatisation it’s called.

Yeah that sounds about right, power supply should be a government responsibility and be covered as a basic human right

In as far as misuse of available resources was part of the problem, fixing the financial arrangements to impose appropriate penalties in the event of supply failures would be at least as good a solution as re-nationalisation. Probably better.

I assume that’s part of what the SA government is proposing (but I haven’t checked that).

“Introduction of new ministerial powers to direct the market to operate in the interests of South Australians”

poikilotherm said:

“Introduction of new ministerial powers to direct the market to operate in the interests of South Australians”

Hmmm, that’s one way I suppose.

Why they don’t just introduce financial penalties for failure to provide the contracted service, like any other financial contract, I don’t know.

sarahs mum said:

Cymek said:

poikilotherm said:

privatisation it’s called.

Yeah that sounds about right, power supply should be a government responsibility and be covered as a basic human right

It is a little bit California electricity crisis.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis

I thought of that too.

The Rev Dodgson said:

poikilotherm said:

“Introduction of new ministerial powers to direct the market to operate in the interests of South Australians”

Hmmm, that’s one way I suppose.

Why they don’t just introduce financial penalties for failure to provide the contracted service, like any other financial contract, I don’t know.

tick

poikilotherm said:

DV would be correct, Engie chose not to turn on their gas turbines when the blackout occurred. This new plant will cause the same problem, gas that’s too expensive and a supply chain that makes more money by blacking out tens of thousands of grid users.

I think they’ve got to treat the matter as an emergency. They have to either take direct control of the grid and plants, or make it such that a widespread blackout would result in such high fines for providers that they’ll never even consider allowing it. 100 million a day, 300 million a day, whatever it takes.

ROFL you gotta love denialists. We’re talking on FB about the evidence for anthropocentric climate change, and a mate of a mate, let’s call him Greg, says:

Greg: “Funny that as I just listened to a scientist who won the NASA award for his Satellite work on the upper atmosphere and Poles and he disputes this. He also stated that the degree of warming over the past hundred years has been 1 percent not the 2-4 stated by those who are all about headlines. He also stated as I did that Models are not working. “

DV: “Provide the link to his publication so that I can review it, Greg”

Greg: “Its not about links.Its what he stated.As this site is pro-human induced climate change I wont have his name guttered like others have. He said what I heard..a top scientist his work is well known, so it wont be hard to find what I just stated.”

DV: “Good good, well do let me know when you’ve found it.”

Greg: “As i said anyone can look for the audio..”

ROFLMFAO …
There are thousands of papers on climate change, but when you ask a denialist for a reference they are all “I heard some dude, can’t remember his name or the journal … NASA!”

dv said:

ROFL you gotta love denialists. We’re talking on FB about the evidence for anthropocentric climate change, and a mate of a mate, let’s call him Greg, says:

Greg: “Funny that as I just listened to a scientist who won the NASA award for his Satellite work on the upper atmosphere and Poles and he disputes this. He also stated that the degree of warming over the past hundred years has been 1 percent not the 2-4 stated by those who are all about headlines. He also stated as I did that Models are not working. “

DV: “Provide the link to his publication so that I can review it, Greg”

Greg: “Its not about links.Its what he stated.As this site is pro-human induced climate change I wont have his name guttered like others have. He said what I heard..a top scientist his work is well known, so it wont be hard to find what I just stated.”

DV: “Good good, well do let me know when you’ve found it.”

Greg: “As i said anyone can look for the audio..”

ROFLMFAO …
There are thousands of papers on climate change, but when you ask a denialist for a reference they are all “I heard some dude, can’t remember his name or the journal … NASA!”

DV: Name this scientist
Greg: Lets see uh, , well there’s the fat kid with the thing, uh, the little wiener who’s always got his hands in his pockets!
DV: I want a name, Greg, not a vague description!
Greg: Okay….Hank?
DV: Hank? Hank who?
Greg: Hank….Jones!
DV: Greg, you made that up

dv said:

ROFL you gotta love denialists. We’re talking on FB about the evidence for anthropocentric climate change, and a mate of a mate, let’s call him Greg, says:

Greg: “Funny that as I just listened to a scientist who won the NASA award for his Satellite work on the upper atmosphere and Poles and he disputes this. He also stated that the degree of warming over the past hundred years has been 1 percent not the 2-4 stated by those who are all about headlines. He also stated as I did that Models are not working. “

DV: “Provide the link to his publication so that I can review it, Greg”

Greg: “Its not about links.Its what he stated.As this site is pro-human induced climate change I wont have his name guttered like others have. He said what I heard..a top scientist his work is well known, so it wont be hard to find what I just stated.”

DV: “Good good, well do let me know when you’ve found it.”

Greg: “As i said anyone can look for the audio..”

ROFLMFAO …
There are thousands of papers on climate change, but when you ask a denialist for a reference they are all “I heard some dude, can’t remember his name or the journal … NASA!”

S’ok DV i have stuck my oar in now.

:-)

There’s not a lot of good news these days but happily, Western Australia avoided this fate by voting out a government that planned to privatise power.

dv said:

There’s not a lot of good news these days but happily, Western Australia avoided this fate by voting out a government that planned to privatise power.

Is the SA electricity market completely privitised like that of Victoria?

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

There’s not a lot of good news these days but happily, Western Australia avoided this fate by voting out a government that planned to privatise power.

Is the SA electricity market completely privitised like that of Victoria?

The government in SA still owns most of the assets, which are leased very long term to private entities.

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

There’s not a lot of good news these days but happily, Western Australia avoided this fate by voting out a government that planned to privatise power.

Is the SA electricity market completely privitised like that of Victoria?

The government in SA still owns most of the assets, which are leased very long term to private entities.

Ta. Seems that well regulated electricity sectors are an elusive goal.

Sorry, not only was that the wrong thread, it wasn’t even meant to be posted.

btm said:

Sorry, not only was that the wrong thread, it wasn’t even meant to be posted.

So it all balanced out

BTW guess who voted to privatise SA’s electricity?

Nick Xenophon

dv said:

BTW guess who voted to privatise SA’s electricity?

Nick Xenophon

He is quite the gunning crub that one.

dv said:

BTW guess who voted to privatise SA’s electricity?

Nick Xenophon

Surely there must have been one or two others voting for it as well?

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

BTW guess who voted to privatise SA’s electricity?

Nick Xenophon

Surely there must have been one or two others voting for it as well?

Well the Coalition did

Whoohooo, speaking of Trump, PJ O Rourke has a new book out.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Hell-Did-This-Happen/dp/0802126197

Oops. I return you to your scheduled program.