Wouldn’t it be great if all clocks and watches and other timepieces in the home all synced at once.

some little Wifi / Bluetooth time IOE sync thingie

mechanical watches, wall / desk clocks could have one built in as well.

IOE = IOT

Internet of things

Tau.Neutrino said:

Wouldn’t it be great if all clocks and watches and other timepieces in the home all synced at once.

some little Wifi / Bluetooth time IOE sync thingie

mechanical watches, wall / desk clocks could have one built in as well.

There is a difference between “precision” and “accuracy”.

If all timepieces synced to the wrong time then that would be “precision”.

I just want one home clock that remains “accurate” to better than 1 second a year. Then I can set all the others off that.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Wouldn’t it be great if all clocks and watches and other timepieces in the home all synced at once.

some little Wifi / Bluetooth time IOE sync thingie

mechanical watches, wall / desk clocks could have one built in as well.

There is a difference between “precision” and “accuracy”.

If all timepieces synced to the wrong time then that would be “precision”.

I just want one home clock that remains “accurate” to better than 1 second a year. Then I can set all the others off that.

Synchronous clocks are the most accurate other than a caesium atom clock. With one of those though, you’d have to eat sleep and shit in the ouithouse because it would take up most of your house.

escapements

I thought this was going to be a relativity question.

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Wouldn’t it be great if all clocks and watches and other timepieces in the home all synced at once.

some little Wifi / Bluetooth time IOE sync thingie

mechanical watches, wall / desk clocks could have one built in as well.

There is a difference between “precision” and “accuracy”.

If all timepieces synced to the wrong time then that would be “precision”.

I just want one home clock that remains “accurate” to better than 1 second a year. Then I can set all the others off that.

Synchronous clocks are the most accurate other than a caesium atom clock. With one of those though, you’d have to eat sleep and shit in the ouithouse because it would take up most of your house.

Atomic clocks claim great accuracy. But those that claim the greatest accuracy only achieve great accuracy over a period of time easily measured in minutes. I wonder what GPS satellites use for their clocks.

This one is a rubidium clock. Suitable for use in satellites. Not sure which satellites, but the first GPS satellites did contain rubidium clocks. Some GPS satellites contain caesium clocks. But note that GPS satellites contain a “suite” of these clocks, and the time on them can be reset from a ground signal.

Caesium clocks have better long term stability than rubidium clocks, rubidium clocks start to lose accuracy after 2.5 hours.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Wouldn’t it be great if all clocks and watches and other timepieces in the home all synced at once.

some little Wifi / Bluetooth time IOE sync thingie

mechanical watches, wall / desk clocks could have one built in as well.

These exist, for the USA at least.
There is no need to set these atomic clocks as they automatically set correct time and date from NIST’s atomic clock in Colorado

This clock receives a radio signal from the National Institute of Standards and Technology. Radio signal automatically adjust for AM/PM, 24-hour time, day/date, daylight savings time, leap year and leap seconds

Etc. There seem to be a lot of them, but it’s not easy for me to figure out which are real and which are fake.

Atomic clocks are great at accuracy, miniaturizing one would be good, what is the smallest one they can make?

perhaps fit one into a wifi modem and then it can send an accurate time signal to all computers and Bluetooth enabled wall clocks, Bluetooth enabled watches and Bluetooth enabled desk clocks etc

then all the timepieces in the home can all show the same time including the bluetooth enabled car clock.

mollwollfumble said:

These exist, for the USA at least.

Etc. There seem to be a lot of them, but it’s not easy for me to figure out which are real and which are fake.

For example, is this genuine high accuracy? And if so is the clock internally accurate or externally synchronised?
In appearance it looks just like a bog standard hopelessly-inaccurate battery-powered wall clock.

Automatically sets to exact time. Self setting accurate atomic time. Automatic daylight saving reset

someone needs to design miniaturize a atomic clock for the wifi modem

and someone needs to design a tiny bluetooth time receiver chip

I know they already have Bluetooth enabled smartwatches

but I mean a Bluetooth receiver chip for ordinary mechanical watches as well as Quartz watches digital watches etc

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Wouldn’t it be great if all clocks and watches and other timepieces in the home all synced at once.

some little Wifi / Bluetooth time IOE sync thingie

mechanical watches, wall / desk clocks could have one built in as well.

These exist, for the USA at least.
There is no need to set these atomic clocks as they automatically set correct time and date from NIST’s atomic clock in Colorado

This clock receives a radio signal from the National Institute of Standards and Technology. Radio signal automatically adjust for AM/PM, 24-hour time, day/date, daylight savings time, leap year and leap seconds

Etc. There seem to be a lot of them, but it’s not easy for me to figure out which are real and which are fake.

Cole-Parmer Large Digit Radio Atomic Clock

looks good, except the price needs to be lower

digital clocks are cheap and so are wifi chips

its reading the time over wifi to an Internet server just like all computers do

I would like to see more manufactures building in wifi to Bluetooth chips in clocks, watches

Tau.Neutrino said:

Atomic clocks are great at accuracy, miniaturizing one would be good, what is the smallest one they can make?

perhaps fit one into a wifi modem and then it can send an accurate time signal to all computers and Bluetooth enabled wall clocks, Bluetooth enabled watches and Bluetooth enabled desk clocks etc

then all the timepieces in the home can all show the same time including the bluetooth enabled car clock.

I see whispers on the web about atomic clock on a chip. Check web.

Quantum™ SA.45s Chip Scale Atomic Clock

“The Microsemi Quantum™ SA.45s CSAC is the world’s first commercially available chip scale atomic clock.”

Let’s see.

Claimed accuracy <9E-10 /mo Aging Rate (Typical).

What’s that over a year? 0.03 seconds. That’s great.

Weight 35g, Volume 17 cm^2, Power consumption 120 mW.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Atomic clocks are great at accuracy, miniaturizing one would be good, what is the smallest one they can make?

perhaps fit one into a wifi modem and then it can send an accurate time signal to all computers and Bluetooth enabled wall clocks, Bluetooth enabled watches and Bluetooth enabled desk clocks etc

then all the timepieces in the home can all show the same time including the bluetooth enabled car clock.

I see whispers on the web about atomic clock on a chip. Check web.

Quantum™ SA.45s Chip Scale Atomic Clock

“The Microsemi Quantum™ SA.45s CSAC is the world’s first commercially available chip scale atomic clock.”

Let’s see.

Claimed accuracy <9E-10 /mo Aging Rate (Typical).

What’s that over a year? 0.03 seconds. That’s great.

Weight 35g, Volume 17 cm^2, Power consumption 120 mW.

yes, build that into all wifi modems

awesome

design a bluetooth chip that can read internet time and set the clock or watch from that signal

a bluetooth chip for mechanical watches / clocks, triggers a mechanical device that sets the timepiece

Tau.Neutrino said:

price needs to be lower, digital clocks are cheap

That’s why I mentioned the “La Crosse Technology 14 Inch ATOMIC ANALOG CLOCK”. If genuine, it only costs USD 32.

The existence of the 35 g “chip scale atomic clock” makes its genuineness more likely.

The following digital clock, for USA only, appears for be radio synchronised to a remote atomic clock.
Atomic-Bathroom-Digital-Alarm-Clock

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

price needs to be lower, digital clocks are cheap

That’s why I mentioned the “La Crosse Technology 14 Inch ATOMIC ANALOG CLOCK”. If genuine, it only costs USD 32.

The existence of the 35 g “chip scale atomic clock” makes its genuineness more likely.

The following digital clock, for USA only, appears for be radio synchronised to a remote atomic clock.
Atomic-Bathroom-Digital-Alarm-Clock

La Crosse Technology WT-3143A-INT 14-Inch Atomic Wall Clock Black

thanks, I might consider that one as the price is ok

will have to wait for a cheaper digital one

and technology to catch up with mechanical and quartz watches

Why does anyone need accuracy better than about a minute in a domestic clock anyway?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why does anyone need accuracy better than about a minute in a domestic clock anyway?

i have been thinking the same thing.

Claimed digital atomic wall clock 23 by 19 cm (ie. not small). Better-Homes-Gardens-Digital-Atomic-Clock $56 Australian.

Um, has a radio signal strength meter on the front. Not sure whether that means that it can only be used in the USA. Ships in from the USA. What is “WWVB time”? Ah. “WWVB is a time signal radio station near Fort Collins, Colorado and is operated by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). Most radio-controlled clocks in North America use WWVB’s transmissions to set the correct time.”

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why does anyone need accuracy better than about a minute in a domestic clock anyway?

its not so much that

I collect clocks and watches

fantasied what it would be like if they all synced at once

without-out having to to it manually for so many

I do sync them all now and then and then watch them slowly go all out of sync again, over days, weeks, months etc

mollwollfumble said:

Claimed digital atomic wall clock 23 by 19 cm (ie. not small). Better-Homes-Gardens-Digital-Atomic-Clock $56 Australian.

Um, has a radio signal strength meter on the front. Not sure whether that means that it can only be used in the USA. Ships in from the USA. What is “WWVB time”? Ah. “WWVB is a time signal radio station near Fort Collins, Colorado and is operated by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). Most radio-controlled clocks in North America use WWVB’s transmissions to set the correct time.”

The radio signal strength meter would be for the wifi signal

yes that one looks good for consideration as well

thanks

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why does anyone need accuracy better than about a minute in a domestic clock anyway?

i have been thinking the same thing.

Obviously you’ve never tried to catch a train.

It’s essential for timing when students will arrive for music lessons, and knowing the correct time to kick them out.

And for appointments with dentists, interviews, conferences, etc. (not doctors, they’re notoriously unpunctual).

Even for some bus routes.

Over most of the day, a minute will mean the difference between catching and missing the start of a TV program.

A clock or watch that’s out by two minutes is a disaster.

I used to have clocks but there’s no real need for them now.

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why does anyone need accuracy better than about a minute in a domestic clock anyway?

i have been thinking the same thing.

I certainly don’t need either that accuracy or precision.

mollwollfumble said:

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why does anyone need accuracy better than about a minute in a domestic clock anyway?

i have been thinking the same thing.

Obviously you’ve never tried to catch a train.

It’s essential for timing when students will arrive for music lessons, and knowing the correct time to kick them out.

And for appointments with dentists, interviews, conferences, etc. (not doctors, they’re notoriously unpunctual).

Even for some bus routes.

Over most of the day, a minute will mean the difference between catching and missing the start of a TV program.

A clock or watch that’s out by two minutes is a disaster.

caught a few trains. In germany the trains leave dead on time. I’ve never been so slack as not to have been early and so not missed anything. Just don’t see the point of running ones life to the minute.

dv said:

I used to have clocks but there’s no real need for them now.

I like to look at them

A digital or analog one projected into the mind would be fun

mollwollfumble said:

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why does anyone need accuracy better than about a minute in a domestic clock anyway?

i have been thinking the same thing.

Obviously you’ve never tried to catch a train.

It’s essential for timing when students will arrive for music lessons, and knowing the correct time to kick them out.

And for appointments with dentists, interviews, conferences, etc. (not doctors, they’re notoriously unpunctual).

Even for some bus routes.

Over most of the day, a minute will mean the difference between catching and missing the start of a TV program.

A clock or watch that’s out by two minutes is a disaster.

If your journey time to the station (including parking and walking from parking spot) never varies by more than 30 seconds, and if your trains never leave more than 30 seconds early, then you are a very fortunate person.

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

I used to have clocks but there’s no real need for them now.

I like to look at them

A digital or analog one projected into the mind would be fun

I like the idea of the correct time as well

Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

Claimed digital atomic wall clock 23 by 19 cm (ie. not small). Better-Homes-Gardens-Digital-Atomic-Clock $56 Australian.

Um, has a radio signal strength meter on the front. Not sure whether that means that it can only be used in the USA. Ships in from the USA. What is “WWVB time”? Ah. “WWVB is a time signal radio station near Fort Collins, Colorado and is operated by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). Most radio-controlled clocks in North America use WWVB’s transmissions to set the correct time.”

The radio signal strength meter would be for the wifi signal

yes that one looks good for consideration as well

thanks

the WWV time signal is broadcast on the HF band. So it wouldn’t be wifi. When I associated with amateurs that time signal was used to set their clocks.

mollwollfumble said:

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why does anyone need accuracy better than about a minute in a domestic clock anyway?

i have been thinking the same thing.

Obviously you’ve never tried to catch a train.

It’s essential for timing when students will arrive for music lessons, and knowing the correct time to kick them out.

And for appointments with dentists, interviews, conferences, etc. (not doctors, they’re notoriously unpunctual).

Even for some bus routes.

Over most of the day, a minute will mean the difference between catching and missing the start of a TV program.

A clock or watch that’s out by two minutes is a disaster.

I always have a five minutes buffer for those things.. I can wait five minutes at a bus stop, train station, waiting room. I teach music and sometimes a lesson starts a minute late, or finishes a minute early.. really not a huge deal for anyone. But then I haven’t owned a watch for over a decade.. and we have two clocks (one oven and one wall) so syncing them isn’t a problem.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

I used to have clocks but there’s no real need for them now.

I like to look at them

A digital or analog one projected into the mind would be fun

I like the idea of the correct time as well

never happen.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

I used to have clocks but there’s no real need for them now.

I like to look at them

A digital or analog one projected into the mind would be fun

I like the idea of the correct time as well

Is the plank limit for space the same for time?

or does time have a different limit?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

I used to have clocks but there’s no real need for them now.

I like to look at them

A digital or analog one projected into the mind would be fun

I like the idea of the correct time as well

when you are late someone will always tell you

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

I used to have clocks but there’s no real need for them now.

I like to look at them

Fair enough, but there’s no need for them to be actually running.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/La-Crosse-Technology-WT-3143A-INT-14-Inch-Atomic-Wall-Clock-Black-/182470529104?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

awesome I will buy that and then put it in my own table clock

this one

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FRENCH-MANTLE-CLOCK-Paris-DESIGN-Classic-Rustic-Vintage-Bedside-Table-Decor-Time-/111397960960?hash=item19efd5fd00:g:YW0AAOSw7I5Ts6hd

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

ChrispenEvan said:

i have been thinking the same thing.

Obviously you’ve never tried to catch a train.

It’s essential for timing when students will arrive for music lessons, and knowing the correct time to kick them out.

And for appointments with dentists, interviews, conferences, etc. (not doctors, they’re notoriously unpunctual).

Even for some bus routes.

Over most of the day, a minute will mean the difference between catching and missing the start of a TV program.

A clock or watch that’s out by two minutes is a disaster.

If your journey time to the station (including parking and walking from parking spot) never varies by more than 30 seconds, and if your trains never leave more than 30 seconds early, then you are a very fortunate person.

I have quite a different view of “disaster” to Molly, it seems.

Mobile phones using network time are plenty accurate enough for every day use as timepieces.

Tau.Neutrino said:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/La-Crosse-Technology-WT-3143A-INT-14-Inch-Atomic-Wall-Clock-Black-/182470529104?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

awesome I will buy that and then put it in my own table clock

this one

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FRENCH-MANTLE-CLOCK-Paris-DESIGN-Classic-Rustic-Vintage-Bedside-Table-Decor-Time-/111397960960?hash=item19efd5fd00:g:YW0AAOSw7I5Ts6hd

I added an led light to that french table clock and it looks good at night

WWVB time code coverage, at the worst time of day, 2 pm UTC. Not useful outside the USA and Mexico.

There are some time synchronisation broadcast standards in countries other than the USA. Wikipedia lists:

Belarus, Kyrghystan, Russia, Finland, Japan, UK, China, Switzerland, Germany, Taiwan, France, Canada, South Korea, Venezuela, Argentina, Brazil, India.

No Australia.

mollwollfumble said:

WWVB time code coverage, at the worst time of day, 2 pm UTC. Not useful outside the USA and Mexico.

There are some time synchronisation broadcast standards in countries other than the USA. Wikipedia lists:

Belarus, Kyrghystan, Russia, Finland, Japan, UK, China, Switzerland, Germany, Taiwan, France, Canada, South Korea, Venezuela, Argentina, Brazil, India.

No Australia.

Tony Abbott’s fault for not having a good science minister

see, a good science minister would fix that problem

maybe someone should have a word with the PM

Does Australia have its own time server?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Does Australia have its own time server?

Australia has a history of serving time

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Does Australia have its own time server?

Australia has a history of serving time

I remember ringing a phone number to get the time

At the third stroke: George the talking clock now on atomic time

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Does Australia have its own time server?

Australia has a history of serving time

:)

Tau.Neutrino said:

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Does Australia have its own time server?

Australia has a history of serving time

I remember ringing a phone number to get the time

At the third stroke: George the talking clock now on atomic time

rings 1194 for the time

its still working

rings 1196

weather number still works too

> Quantum SA.45s Chip Scale Atomic Clock

I don’t see any clocks for sale on the web that specifically mention either Quantum SA.45s, Chip Scale Atomic Clock, or CSAC.

Very disappointing.

mollwollfumble said:

> Quantum SA.45s Chip Scale Atomic Clock

I don’t see any clocks for sale on the web that specifically mention either Quantum SA.45s, Chip Scale Atomic Clock, or CSAC.

Very disappointing.

The CSIRO should run a domestic internet time sever.

Why do we have to rely on overseas ones for?

Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

> Quantum SA.45s Chip Scale Atomic Clock

I don’t see any clocks for sale on the web that specifically mention either Quantum SA.45s, Chip Scale Atomic Clock, or CSAC.

Very disappointing.

The CSIRO should run a domestic internet time sever.

Why do we have to rely on overseas ones for?

or telstra

they run that phone one don’t they?

mollwollfumble said:

> Quantum SA.45s Chip Scale Atomic Clock

I don’t see any clocks for sale on the web that specifically mention either Quantum SA.45s, Chip Scale Atomic Clock, or CSAC.

Very disappointing.

Someone should design an internet time server for Telstra using that chip

• Why do we have to rely on overseas ones for?

Why don’t you just get a GPS device?

Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

> Quantum SA.45s Chip Scale Atomic Clock

I don’t see any clocks for sale on the web that specifically mention either Quantum SA.45s, Chip Scale Atomic Clock, or CSAC.

Very disappointing.

Someone should design an internet time server for Telstra using that chip

Design it so future domestic home telescopes can sync to it easily

furious said:

• Why do we have to rely on overseas ones for?

Why don’t you just get a GPS device?

its probably overkill to have a wall clock know its own position

but, it might make an interesting feature to have a talking clock speak out its location as well as the time

builds in GPS device

Chip Scale Atomic Clock GPSDO

“better than 900ns drift per day typical in holdover”. What’s that per year? 0.0003 seconds. A bit excessive.

Weight 64 g.
Size 2.4 × 3 inches.

Price not to be found on the web but “if the total order is over $10,000 US …”

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why does anyone need accuracy better than about a minute in a domestic clock anyway?

They don’t. Three hundred years of history of accuracy to this degree, prove this.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why does anyone need accuracy better than about a minute in a domestic clock anyway?

They don’t. Three hundred years of history of accuracy to this degree, prove this.

Of course they need better accuracy. A few seconds is the difference between watching a TV advertisement and watching a TV program. Stories on the “Newsbreak” sections of TV News are less than 5 seconds long, by the time I’ve picked up and clicked the remote the news story has finished.

Think of the microwave oven. If you could only control the heating time to worse than +- one minute accuracy then it wouldn’t be as useful.

A tenth of a second is like a tenth of a millimetre. You don’t need that accuracy very often, but sometimes. It would be darn useful if watches measured time to the nearest tenth of a second, and if the sale of analogue clocks was banned.

I get totally annoyed by people who can’t tell the difference between a microsecond and a minute. So often, on TV, in books and elsewhere, people use “microsecond” or “minute” to describe an interval of time that is a few tenths of a second long. “Split second” is the colloquial term that they should be using. Anything else just makes me want to scream.

PS, since when has a microwave oven had “three hundred years of history”. Total bollocks.

People can die in less than a minute.

Moll feels strongly about this

Arts said:

Moll feels strongly about this

Yes. The one thing that really made most people sit up and take notice of the “split second” was Pacman. Before that it was best known from braking reaction times.

I have needed split seconds for simple science experiments, such as timing the speed of sound, and timing the fall of an object under gravity to test out different parachute designs. It’s so much easier to just use the time on a clock rather than to switch everything into stopwatch mode.

:)
But splitting seconds is what a split second stopwatch does.