Where is the new pipeline and power station going in?
I have heard that it is “between 2 reservoirs” but can’t see a logical location.
This is what it looks like now…
There are a few reservoirs with no power generation, but already seem to have a connection. Maybe the’re building a new connection btw some of these for power generation.
All I know is there are two dams with a differential of 600 metres, they plan on tunnelling between them and putting turbines in.
It will also have some pumped hydro capacity, apparently.
poikilotherm said:
There are a few reservoirs with no power generation, but already seem to have a connection. Maybe the’re building a new connection btw some of these for power generation.
Yes. It’s important to note that the Snowy Hydro was built not only for power generation, but to divert water for irrigation to the west of the Main Range.
Still searching here, but this is all I’ve found (from SMH) …
“The Tantangara Dam is understood to be an early area of interest.”
Seems that for now, they have no idea what they’re doing.
Speedy said:
poikilotherm said:
There are a few reservoirs with no power generation, but already seem to have a connection. Maybe the’re building a new connection btw some of these for power generation.
Yes. It’s important to note that the Snowy Hydro was built not only for power generation, but to divert water for irrigation to the west of the Main Range.
Still searching here, but this is all I’ve found (from SMH) …
“The Tantangara Dam is understood to be an early area of interest.”
Seems that for now, they have no idea what they’re doing.
Sums up the fed gubmint really. Maybe Turnabbott needs to ask WWJD (what would jay do)?
Speedy said:
This is what it looks like now…
I’ve seen a lot of maps of the snowy system. This isn’t too bad.
poikilotherm said:
Speedy said:
poikilotherm said:
There are a few reservoirs with no power generation, but already seem to have a connection. Maybe the’re building a new connection btw some of these for power generation.
Yes. It’s important to note that the Snowy Hydro was built not only for power generation, but to divert water for irrigation to the west of the Main Range.
Still searching here, but this is all I’ve found (from SMH) …
“The Tantangara Dam is understood to be an early area of interest.”
Seems that for now, they have no idea what they’re doing.
Sums up the fed gubmint really. Maybe Turnabbott needs to ask WWJD (what would jay do)?
We all know what Jay would do, shut down the snowy river scheme and cover the site in wind turbines.
Speedy said:
I’d agree with that assessment.
poikilotherm said:
There are a few reservoirs with no power generation, but already seem to have a connection. Maybe the’re building a new connection btw some of these for power generation.
Yes. It’s important to note that the Snowy Hydro was built not only for power generation, but to divert water for irrigation to the west of the Main Range.
Still searching here, but this is all I’ve found (from SMH) …
“The Tantangara Dam is understood to be an early area of interest.”
Seems that for now, they have no idea what they’re doing.
Feasibility study to be finished by the end of the year. Bullshit. Impossible.
Peak Warming Man said:
poikilotherm said:
Speedy said:Yes. It’s important to note that the Snowy Hydro was built not only for power generation, but to divert water for irrigation to the west of the Main Range.
Still searching here, but this is all I’ve found (from SMH) …
“The Tantangara Dam is understood to be an early area of interest.”
Seems that for now, they have no idea what they’re doing.
Sums up the fed gubmint really. Maybe Turnabbott needs to ask WWJD (what would jay do)?
We all know what Jay would do, build a state government owned gas powerplant, introduce legislation to prevent private companies holding a state to ransom and outmanoeuvre the fed government on renewables.
IKR
poikilotherm said:
Peak Warming Man said:
poikilotherm said:Sums up the fed gubmint really. Maybe Turnabbott needs to ask WWJD (what would jay do)?
We all know what Jay would do, build a state government owned gas powerplant, introduce legislation to prevent private companies holding a state to ransom and outmanoeuvre the fed government on renewables.
IKR
Fake posting wont get you out of this one.
Peak Warming Man said:
poikilotherm said:
Peak Warming Man said:We all know what Jay would do, build a state government owned gas powerplant, introduce legislation to prevent private companies holding a state to ransom and outmanoeuvre the fed government on renewables.
IKR
Fake posting wont get you out of this one.
heh, clean coal might…
Michael V said:
Speedy said:I’d agree with that assessment.
poikilotherm said:
There are a few reservoirs with no power generation, but already seem to have a connection. Maybe the’re building a new connection btw some of these for power generation.
Yes. It’s important to note that the Snowy Hydro was built not only for power generation, but to divert water for irrigation to the west of the Main Range.
Still searching here, but this is all I’ve found (from SMH) …
“The Tantangara Dam is understood to be an early area of interest.”
Seems that for now, they have no idea what they’re doing.
Feasibility study to be finished by the end of the year. Bullshit. Impossible.
Might not be impossible, there is probably a lot of survey and potential alternative sites identified in the original project papers.
AwesomeO said:
Possible to get pre-feasibility study done in that time. But the full feasibility, no.
Michael V said:
Speedy said:I’d agree with that assessment.Yes. It’s important to note that the Snowy Hydro was built not only for power generation, but to divert water for irrigation to the west of the Main Range.
Still searching here, but this is all I’ve found (from SMH) …
“The Tantangara Dam is understood to be an early area of interest.”
Seems that for now, they have no idea what they’re doing.
Feasibility study to be finished by the end of the year. Bullshit. Impossible.
Might not be impossible, there is probably a lot of survey and potential alternative sites identified in the original project papers.
Michael V said:
AwesomeO said:Possible to get pre-feasibility study done in that time. But the full feasibility, no.
Michael V said:
I’d agree with that assessment.Feasibility study to be finished by the end of the year. Bullshit. Impossible.
Might not be impossible, there is probably a lot of survey and potential alternative sites identified in the original project papers.
Tesla would get the feasibility studies and the construction and the commissioning all done in under 100 days.
Michael V said:
AwesomeO said:Possible to get pre-feasibility study done in that time. But the full feasibility, no.
Michael V said:
I’d agree with that assessment.Feasibility study to be finished by the end of the year. Bullshit. Impossible.
Might not be impossible, there is probably a lot of survey and potential alternative sites identified in the original project papers.
Here’s one we prepared earlier..
I must admit that I have thought for the very longest time that there were places dotted through the Smhec that could be places for micro generation. I remember camping next to the Tumut river a couple of decades ago watching the water race by..
sibeen said:
Michael V said:
AwesomeO said:Possible to get pre-feasibility study done in that time. But the full feasibility, no.Might not be impossible, there is probably a lot of survey and potential alternative sites identified in the original project papers.
Tesla would get the feasibility studies and the construction and the commissioning all done in under 100 days.
Or it’s Freeeeee.
sibeen said:
Michael V said:
AwesomeO said:Possible to get pre-feasibility study done in that time. But the full feasibility, no.Might not be impossible, there is probably a lot of survey and potential alternative sites identified in the original project papers.
Tesla would get the feasibility studies and the construction and the commissioning all done in under 100 days.
I thought it was the opposite, the 100 days was installation only, after feasibly and commissioning was done.
AwesomeO said:
sibeen said:
Michael V said:
Possible to get pre-feasibility study done in that time. But the full feasibility, no.Tesla would get the feasibility studies and the construction and the commissioning all done in under 100 days.
I thought it was the opposite, the 100 days was installation only, after feasibly and commissioning was done.
sibeen is being snarky as he loves mr musk so much
AwesomeO said:
sibeen said:
Michael V said:
Possible to get pre-feasibility study done in that time. But the full feasibility, no.Tesla would get the feasibility studies and the construction and the commissioning all done in under 100 days.
I thought it was the opposite, the 100 days was installation only, after feasibly and commissioning was done.
Speedy said:
Where is the new pipeline and power station going in?I have heard that it is “between 2 reservoirs” but can’t see a logical location.
But in the meantime.
A few years ago, perhaps 10 years ago, I did look into the possibilities of extending the Snowy Hydro system.
I started by noting that the whole system runs off a small fraction of the Snowy River’s catchment area, that above Lake Jindabyne.
The best way to get more energy out of the Snowy Hydro system would be to run it off a larger fraction of the Snowy’s catchment area.
Before going about that, I was also doing some work on microhydroelectricity for CSIRO just before I left, with the thought that the water downstream of the main turbines still contains about 10% of the energy that it had before the turbines – adding extra small turbines downstream could harvest that energy.
Anyway, back to the best strategy, I’ll have a look back at Google Earth. Floow the Snowy River down blow Lake Jindabyne to the next significant inflowing river. Where is that?
I had figured out that Snowy below Delgate was the ideal spot for a new Hydro plant. It catches the inflow of water from the Delgate River and MacLaughlin River. This would nearly double the catchment area for the Snowy Scheme.
Oops, forgot to include the map comparing the catchment areas of Snowy below Delgate vs Snowy at Jindabyne.
> Floow the Snowy River down blow Lake Jindabyne
An example of being “unkeyboardinated” = see Nonce Words
Follow the Snowy River down below Lake Jindabyne.
mollwollfumble said:
Speedy said:
Where is the new pipeline and power station going in?I have heard that it is “between 2 reservoirs” but can’t see a logical location.
I haven’t heard a whisper about it. So I’ll wait until I hear more.But in the meantime.
A few years ago, perhaps 10 years ago, I did look into the possibilities of extending the Snowy Hydro system.
I started by noting that the whole system runs off a small fraction of the Snowy River’s catchment area, that above Lake Jindabyne.
The best way to get more energy out of the Snowy Hydro system would be to run it off a larger fraction of the Snowy’s catchment area.Before going about that, I was also doing some work on microhydroelectricity for CSIRO just before I left, with the thought that the water downstream of the main turbines still contains about 10% of the energy that it had before the turbines – adding extra small turbines downstream could harvest that energy.
Anyway, back to the best strategy, I’ll have a look back at Google Earth. Floow the Snowy River down blow Lake Jindabyne to the next significant inflowing river. Where is that?
I had figured out that Snowy below Delgate was the ideal spot for a new Hydro plant. It catches the inflow of water from the Delgate River and MacLaughlin River. This would nearly double the catchment area for the Snowy Scheme.
Is that in a national park or is it farming/mining area?
mollwollfumble said:
Oops, forgot to include the map comparing the catchment areas of Snowy below Delgate vs Snowy at Jindabyne.
Thanks.
Says it all
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/utopia/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-16/snowy-hydro-expansion-wont-be-magical-solution-to-power-problems/8360320
“One obvious possibility in the Snowy Mountains is to use the massive volume of water in the Eucumbene, which is the main storage reservoir for the Snowy Mountains Scheme,” he said.
“That would require about 30 kilometres or so of tunnelling and there’s a 600-metre height difference between Eucumbene and Talbingo reservoir.
“And so if you build a large underground power station with a pump and a turbine, or several, then you have effectively a giant battery without disturbing the Kosciusko National Park, because the high voltage power lines that you would need, you’d need more of them to go out to the outside world without going across the Snowy Mountains.
“And if the tunnel and power stations are underground then once again you’re not disturbing the pristine Kosciusko National Park.”
Michael V said:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-16/snowy-hydro-expansion-wont-be-magical-solution-to-power-problems/8360320“One obvious possibility in the Snowy Mountains is to use the massive volume of water in the Eucumbene, which is the main storage reservoir for the Snowy Mountains Scheme,” he said.
“That would require about 30 kilometres or so of tunnelling and there’s a 600-metre height difference between Eucumbene and Talbingo reservoir.
“And so if you build a large underground power station with a pump and a turbine, or several, then you have effectively a giant battery without disturbing the Kosciusko National Park, because the high voltage power lines that you would need, you’d need more of them to go out to the outside world without going across the Snowy Mountains.
“And if the tunnel and power stations are underground then once again you’re not disturbing the pristine Kosciusko National Park.”
roughbarked said:
Michael V said:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-16/snowy-hydro-expansion-wont-be-magical-solution-to-power-problems/8360320“One obvious possibility in the Snowy Mountains is to use the massive volume of water in the Eucumbene, which is the main storage reservoir for the Snowy Mountains Scheme,” he said.
“That would require about 30 kilometres or so of tunnelling and there’s a 600-metre height difference between Eucumbene and Talbingo reservoir.
“And so if you build a large underground power station with a pump and a turbine, or several, then you have effectively a giant battery without disturbing the Kosciusko National Park, because the high voltage power lines that you would need, you’d need more of them to go out to the outside world without going across the Snowy Mountains.
“And if the tunnel and power stations are underground then once again you’re not disturbing the pristine Kosciusko National Park.”
I’m reasonably sure that GeoffD implied that the place was largely too flat to do much at all with extra storage capacity.
They already have the dams, although it does seem strange that they would need wind and solar power to pump the water back up. Why don’t they just put storage batteries in and and use the power directly from from the wind and solar to supply the 1/2 mill homes?
“That would require about 30 kilometres or so of tunnelling and there’s a 600-metre height difference between Eucumbene and Talbingo reservoir.
Whats the volume of water being pumped?
How much energy is required for pumping?
Tau.Neutrino said:
“That would require about 30 kilometres or so of tunnelling and there’s a 600-metre height difference between Eucumbene and Talbingo reservoir.Whats the volume of water being pumped?
How much energy is required for pumping?
Presumably the volume of water pumped back would be the same as sent down, ie one hell of a lot of water.
PermeateFree said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
“That would require about 30 kilometres or so of tunnelling and there’s a 600-metre height difference between Eucumbene and Talbingo reservoir.Whats the volume of water being pumped?
How much energy is required for pumping?
Presumably the volume of water pumped back would be the same as sent down, ie one hell of a lot of water.
My boss quoted the council in Tas $1million to return the flow of water from the base to the top dam in their hydro just using windmills
Tau.Neutrino said:
“That would require about 30 kilometres or so of tunnelling and there’s a 600-metre height difference between Eucumbene and Talbingo reservoir.Whats the volume of water being pumped?
How much energy is required for pumping?
Energy in is roughly 110% of useful energy out. The extra 10% doesn’t dossapear of course; it just dissipates as heat.
Anyway, I think we should all count ourselves lucky that one largish power station in ten years or so is all it takes to solve our national energy crisis now and forever.
stumpy_seahorse said:
PermeateFree said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
“That would require about 30 kilometres or so of tunnelling and there’s a 600-metre height difference between Eucumbene and Talbingo reservoir.Whats the volume of water being pumped?
How much energy is required for pumping?
Presumably the volume of water pumped back would be the same as sent down, ie one hell of a lot of water.
My boss quoted the council in Tas $1million to return the flow of water from the base to the top dam in their hydro just using windmills
Was he Dutch?
PermeateFree said:
stumpy_seahorse said:
PermeateFree said:Presumably the volume of water pumped back would be the same as sent down, ie one hell of a lot of water.
My boss quoted the council in Tas $1million to return the flow of water from the base to the top dam in their hydro just using windmills
Was he Dutch?
scottish
Would an Archimedes screw and an aqueduct be better energy wise?
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
“That would require about 30 kilometres or so of tunnelling and there’s a 600-metre height difference between Eucumbene and Talbingo reservoir.Whats the volume of water being pumped?
How much energy is required for pumping?
Energy in is roughly 110% of useful energy out. The extra 10% doesn’t dossapear of course; it just dissipates as heat.
>>Pumped-storage hydroelectricity (PSH), or pumped hydroelectric energy storage (PHES), is a type of hydroelectric energy storage used by electric power systems for load balancing. The method stores energy in the form of gravitational potential energy of water, pumped from a lower elevation reservoir to a higher elevation. Low-cost surplus off-peak electric power is typically used to run the pumps. During periods of high electrical demand, the stored water is released through turbines to produce electric power. Although the losses of the pumping process makes the plant a net consumer of energy overall, the system increases revenue by selling more electricity during periods of peak demand, when electricity prices are highest. Pumped-storage hydroelectricity allows energy from intermittent sources (such as solar, wind) and other renewables, or excess electricity from continuous base-load sources (such as coal or nuclear) to be saved for periods of higher demand. The reservoirs used with pumped storage are quite small when compared to conventional hydroelectric dams of similar power capacity, and generating periods are often less than half a day.<<
The above example and others read say this is purely a power storage system to deliver additional peak period power. None that I saw said it was a suitable system for continuous power supply. Therefore how could 500,000 additional homes be fully serviced by this means?
roughbarked said:
mollwollfumble said:
Speedy said:
Where is the new pipeline and power station going in?I have heard that it is “between 2 reservoirs” but can’t see a logical location.
I haven’t heard a whisper about it. So I’ll wait until I hear more.But in the meantime.
A few years ago, perhaps 10 years ago, I did look into the possibilities of extending the Snowy Hydro system.
I started by noting that the whole system runs off a small fraction of the Snowy River’s catchment area, that above Lake Jindabyne.
The best way to get more energy out of the Snowy Hydro system would be to run it off a larger fraction of the Snowy’s catchment area.Before going about that, I was also doing some work on microhydroelectricity for CSIRO just before I left, with the thought that the water downstream of the main turbines still contains about 10% of the energy that it had before the turbines – adding extra small turbines downstream could harvest that energy.
Anyway, back to the best strategy, I’ll have a look back at Google Earth. Floow the Snowy River down blow Lake Jindabyne to the next significant inflowing river. Where is that?
I had figured out that Snowy below Delgate was the ideal spot for a new Hydro plant. It catches the inflow of water from the Delgate River and MacLaughlin River. This would nearly double the catchment area for the Snowy Scheme.
Is that in a national park or is it farming/mining area?
Mostly farming land in NSW and NP in Victoria.
I think what makes it so successful is its altitude. Even when we’re in drought, the rivers in this region roar. AFAICT, this is because of the low night-time temps. Not sure how far into the surrounding areas the extreme overnight condensation extends, but I don’t think it would be far at all. Any extention of the Scheme outside of its existing boundary would likely rely upon unpredictable rainfall.
PermeateFree said:
The above example and others read say this is purely a power storage system to deliver additional peak period power. None that I saw said it was a suitable system for continuous power supply. Therefore how could 500,000 additional homes be fully serviced by this means?
No storage system is any good by itself, but they do allow intermittent supplies to provide continuous power, or continuous supplies to operate at peak output all the time, so you can use fewer of them.
I have no idea about the 500,000 homes though. DV can probably provide a good guess if that is realistic.
Although there will be some pumped storage, that is not the key feature of this project. The big news is that the power capacity will increase by 4 GW.
dv said:
Although there will be some pumped storage, that is not the key feature of this project. The big news is that the power capacity will increase by 4 GW.
Dear Leader just said it was all pumped storage, and I have only heard anyone mention 2 GW capacity.
What do you think of the half million homes figure?
The Rev Dodgson said:
Dear Leader just said it was all pumped storage
Well, he was wrong. Large new dams will be build, new turbines installed.
What do you think of the half million homes figure?
A standard metric home in this country is about 700 W. Half a million homes, therefore, require some 350 MW.
dv said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Dear Leader just said it was all pumped storage
Well, he was wrong. Large new dams will be build, new turbines installed.
Don’t think so, as not having to build new dams was a big advantage to the scheme. It was to be entirely recycled water, pumped back up to the higher dam.
dv said:
Although there will be some pumped storage, that is not the key feature of this project. The big news is that the power capacity will increase by 4 GW.
If it happens.
dv said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Dear Leader just said it was all pumped storage
Well, he was wrong. Large new dams will be build, new turbines installed.
What do you think of the half million homes figure?A standard metric home in this country is about 700 W. Half a million homes, therefore, require some 350 MW.
I don’t know about new dams, but there is no doubt there will be new turbines. I guess there would be some new dams required as well because that additional capacity would need more storage, at least at the low end. I think what DL meant was that the source of the water that will pass through the new turbines will be pumped storage, rather than rain.
As for the half million homes, it seems rather strange to use that number if the output is nearly 12 (or even 6) times greater, but I suppose we’ll get some accurate information some time.
from the bowels of the ABC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1TMpXhwcQw
roughbarked said:
Is that in a national park or is it farming/mining area?
Which is better?
This is the official media release, from the liberal party website. By the way, who died in the Liberal Party? Whoever was blocking Turnbull from acting with intelligence seems to have disappeared this week.
MEDIA RELEASE
The Turnbull Government will start work on an electricity game-changer: the plan for the Snowy Mountains Scheme 2.0.
This plan will increase the generation of the Snowy Hydro scheme by 50%, adding 2000 megawatts of renewable energy to the National Electricity Market – enough to power 500,000 thousand homes.
In one hour it could produce 20 times the 100Mwh expected from the battery proposed by the South Australian Government, but would deliver it constantly for almost a week (or 350,000 Mwh over seven days).
The unprecedented expansion will help make renewables reliable, filling in holes caused by intermittent supply and generator outages. It will enable greater energy efficiency and help stabilise electricity supply into the future.
The Government, through the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA), will examine several sites, which could support large scale pumped hydroelectric energy storage in the precinct. These sites would involve new tunnels and power stations, connecting existing storages.
Snowy Hydro was originally built with the capability to be expanded and the Turnbull Government intends on maximizing that capacity.
An “all of the above” approach – including hydro, solar, coal and gas – is critical to future energy supplies
Snowy Hydro already provides back up energy to New South Wales and Victoria and could extend to South Australia when expanded.
This exciting plan would lead to job creation and economic security for thousands in the construction and engineering sectors.
It will have no impact on the scheme’s ability to supply water to irrigators in New South Wales, South Australia and Queensland.
A feasibility study is expected to be completed before the end of the year, and construction can commence soon after.
“It will have no impact on the scheme’s ability to supply water to irrigators in New South Wales, South Australia and Queensland.”
LOL!
500,000 thousand homes.
wow.
ChrispenEvan said:
500,000 thousand homes.wow.
Fusion hydro.
ChrispenEvan said:
500,000 thousand homes.wow.
So the housing crisis should also be fixed, huzzah
mollwollfumble said:
The Turnbull Government will start work on an electricity game-changer: the plan for the Snowy Mountains Scheme 2.0.
I think they should get some engineers to work on it. In fact I’m pretty sure that’s what they will do. Perhaps even the same engineers who have been working on it up to now.
mollwollfumble said:
This plan will increase the generation of the Snowy Hydro scheme by 50%, adding 2000 megawatts of renewable energy to the National Electricity Market – enough to power 500,000 thousand homes.
if dv is right, those must be non-standard homes.
mollwollfumble said:
In one hour it could produce 20 times the 100Mwh expected from the battery proposed by the South Australian Government, but would deliver it constantly for almost a week (or 350,000 Mwh over seven days).
Obviously large pumped hydro systems and battery systems supply different needs. Turnbull has said that these things should not be politicised, and he is right. It’s a shame Turnbull does not listen to Turnbull.
mollwollfumble said:
The unprecedented expansion will help make renewables reliable, filling in holes caused by intermittent supply and generator outages. It will enable greater energy efficiency and help stabilise electricity supply into the future.
2 GW is hardly “unprecedented”.
mollwollfumble said:
A feasibility study is expected to be completed before the end of the year, and construction can commence soon after.
A little optimistic I’d say, but we’ll see.
This may be the first mention of the original Snowy Hydro Scheme in the press. Certainly the first in the Victorian press. 6 Jan 1944.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/64166348
HARNESSING SNOWY RIVER
Electricity for Industry
By diverting the Snowy River in
New South Wales and creating a
hydro-electric scheme provision could
be made to provide cheap power and
for the, development of an industrial
community estimated at 750,000 people.
Coal, it is claimed, is becoming’ too
costly for industry and is also limited.
Following Kiewa – which is designed
to meet Victoria’s expanding electricity
requirements during the next ten
years-the Snowy River is probably the
most likely source of hydro-electric de-
velopment.
The State Electricity Commission
has been accumulating data over a
long period in the form of gaugings
and surveys just east of Buchan to
Deddick, and ‘has explored the river
back to the New South Wales border.
Provided there is no interference with
the natural flow of the river, it is esti-
mated that up to.270,000 horse power
of electricity-aboutl30,000 horse power
more than the ultimate capacity of
Kiewa-can be made available from
the Snowy “at an appropriate stage
of Victoria’s development.”
No concern is manifest in Victoria
regarding the proposal that a large
storage be constructed on the New
South Wales section of the river for
the development of about 270,000 norse
power of electricity for transmission
250 miles to Sydney and inter-connec-
tion with the heat and power stations
there. This, it is stated, would not
affect Victoria’s use of the river for
water supply, Irrigation or electricity
supply purposes. Victorian electricity
supply interests, however, would be
seriously ‘jeopardised by the diversion
of the Snowy Rivr waters by. tunnel
northwards to the Murrumbidgee River
as an irrigation and water .supply
scheme, plus limited hydro-electric de-
velopment.
T’he diversion of the Snowy River
referred to is calculated to safeguard
the flats at Orbost and Marlo, but. the
advantage to be derived from an elec-
trical scheme is claimed to outweigh
this.
Going back to 26 May 1939, there is a mention in the press of a proposal to harness the Snowy River as one of several solutions to the energy crisis in Victoria.
What is interesting is that the proposal was made “by two Swedish experts” in a report handed to the government four months earlier.
Swedish, eh. That makes sense, Australians never listen to proposals made by Australians. They always think that people from overseas are more intelligent.
Back ever further, this is from 8 Nov 1922.
HARNESSING THE SNOWY.
HYDRO-ELECTRIC PLAN
While the Ministry is committed -to
a .policy of :hydro-electric ‘develop-
ment, and ‘has made a start with the
provision of 7000 h.p. from Burrin-
juck, the carrying out of ‘the State’s
biggest hydro-electric project is still.
hanging fire. Perhaps the reason is
that the total cost will be just about
£5,000,000. This is the harnessing of
the Snowy River, which will yield
Neaily 200;000 h.p. According to the
Estimates, the expenditure , would be
amply justified; for power could be
distributed over a great part of the
State, including Sydney, at a very
low cost. A Minister pointed out
that the Snowy River proposal would
cost a little less than the North Shore
bridge. He would like to see both
carried out; but if one had to be
dropped it would be very hard to
choose between them. The harnessing
of the Snowy River would mean an
immense advantage to the State. An
excellent site for a dam had been
selected.
Nine tenders have been received
for the supply of hydro-electric
machinery for Burrinjuck. The
machinery required is two sets, each
capable of generating about 7000
.horse-power. The Tenders Board will
go into the tenders, which may take
some time, and report to the Minister.
From 20 May 1916.
SNOWY RIVER HYDRO-ELECTRIC SYSTEM.
SYDNEY Tuesday.-Mr. Cann says that
the proposed Snowy River hydro-electric sys
tem would cost approximately £5,000,000.
So, what did the Snowy Hydro plan look like in 1916?
mollwollfumble said:
From 20 May 1916.SNOWY RIVER HYDRO-ELECTRIC SYSTEM.
SYDNEY Tuesday.-Mr. Cann says that
the proposed Snowy River hydro-electric sys
tem would cost approximately £5,000,000.So, what did the Snowy Hydro plan look like in 1916?
They envisaged it supplying power for 500,000,000 million homes.
It’s interesting that Burrinjuck was never included in the Snowy scheme.
It’s generating capacity is now zero. (Not that it was very large anyway. IIRC it was two (24?) kilowatt-size generators.
mollwollfumble said:
So, 1916 to finished in 1974. Bit of time. Turncoat would like it finished before SA gets its batteries, I’d imagine.
From 20 May 1916.SNOWY RIVER HYDRO-ELECTRIC SYSTEM.
SYDNEY Tuesday.-Mr. Cann says that
the proposed Snowy River hydro-electric sys
tem would cost approximately £5,000,000.So, what did the Snowy Hydro plan look like in 1916?
2July 1885.
A reference to “diverting water from the Snowy into the Murrumbidgee”.
8 Jun 1904. The Snowy scheme was first suggested as a water and power supply for Australia’s new capital city. This goes so far as to recommend Jindabyne as the main reservoir site.
THE DALGETY PROPOSAL.
WATER SUPPLY AND WATER
POWER.
A copy of the report on water supply and
Water power for the proposed Federal capi-
tal site at Dalgety. which was prepared by
Mr Pridham, of the New South Wales
Department of Public Works, was laid on
the table of the House of Representative.;
yesterday. Mr Pridham states that he
examined three points on the Snowy River,
which the occurrence of waterfalls and
rapids at bends indicated as the most favor
able fog economically obtaining water
power. By far the best site for a large
hydro-electric installation was found at a
point 22 miles from Dalgety, above which
the catchment area of the river and its tri-
butaries was approximately 1600 square
miles. With the construction of a tunnel 3 1/2
miles in length and 12 feet in diameter it
would be possible to get an available head
of 300 feet, and with a storage reservoir up
stream to ensure a constant flow of 1000
cubic feet per second through the tunnel,
24,000 gross horse power, or 20,000 net
horse power, after allowing for all losses,
could be obtained. A portion of this power
could he eeonomically used for electrically
working the proposed railway from Cooma
to Delegate, and the rest could be ‘employed
in various ways, such as operating an elec-
tric tramway from the capital city to
Koscuisco, for working city trams, lighting,
heating, and for working saw mills on the
forest reserves.
He estimated that 1700 horse power could
he obtained without any storage at a series
of rapids 4 miles west of the proposed
city site by the construction of a tunnel a
mile long and 7 feet in diameter. Assum-
ing that the whole of this power could be
used for pumping from the Snowy River
into the proposed service reservoir for the
capital, a supply sufficient for a population
of 110.600, at 100 gallons per head per day,
could be obtained. With a storage reser-
voir near Jindabyne suflicient power to sup-
ply a population of 380,000 could be obtain-
ed. The minimum flow of the river would,
with proper storage, suffice for a population
of nearly ten times the latter number. In
his opinion the Dalgety site could he sup-
plied with water at less expense than any
of the other eight sites reported on. The
report states that Snowy River is fed by a
constant stream issuing from the remark
able “Blue Lake” on Mount Koscuisco,
close to the top of the watershed; and this
is said to account for the fact that during
the last two very dry months, during which
there had been practically no snow on tho
mountains, the Snowy River had maintain-
ed a good steady flow.
Michael V said:
It’s interesting that Burrinjuck was never included in the Snowy scheme.It’s generating capacity is now zero. (Not that it was very large anyway. IIRC it was two (24?) kilowatt-size generators.
Why so little capacity, and where did it go?
The Rev Dodgson said:
The dam started failing (after two over-top events), as did the low hydro sluice-gates, because the concrete around them was failing. The original contractor cheated on the concrete mix, you see.
Michael V said:
It’s interesting that Burrinjuck was never included in the Snowy scheme.It’s generating capacity is now zero. (Not that it was very large anyway. IIRC it was two (24?) kilowatt-size generators.
Why so little capacity, and where did it go?
Michael V said:
The Rev Dodgson said:The dam started failing (after two over-top events), as did the low hydro sluice-gates, because the concrete around them was failing. The original contractor cheated on the concrete mix, you see.
Michael V said:
It’s interesting that Burrinjuck was never included in the Snowy scheme.It’s generating capacity is now zero. (Not that it was very large anyway. IIRC it was two (24?) kilowatt-size generators.
Why so little capacity, and where did it go?
I should probably have known that :)
The Rev Dodgson said:
Michael V said:
The Rev Dodgson said:The dam started failing (after two over-top events), as did the low hydro sluice-gates, because the concrete around them was failing. The original contractor cheated on the concrete mix, you see.Why so little capacity, and where did it go?
I should probably have known that :)
Besides, the irrigators down the Murumbidgee valley want all that water.
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Michael V said:
The dam started failing (after two over-top events), as did the low hydro sluice-gates, because the concrete around them was failing. The original contractor cheated on the concrete mix, you see.I should probably have known that :)
Besides, the irrigators down the Murumbidgee valley want all that water.
Running the water through a generator first doesn’t stop them getting it, does it?
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:I should probably have known that :)
Besides, the irrigators down the Murumbidgee valley want all that water.
Running the water through a generator first doesn’t stop them getting it, does it?
Of course it doesn’t but that doesn’t stop them thinking it.
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:I should probably have known that :)
Besides, the irrigators down the Murumbidgee valley want all that water.
Running the water through a generator first doesn’t stop them getting it, does it?
Farmers aint going to pay top dollar for an irrigation license for busted arsed water with half the electrons missing.
The Rev Dodgson said:
No, no it doesn’t.
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:I should probably have known that :)
Besides, the irrigators down the Murumbidgee valley want all that water.
Running the water through a generator first doesn’t stop them getting it, does it?
The first mention of using snow waters was in 1884 by NSW surveyor-general, PF Adams, who suggested diverting water from Island Bend to inland areas for irrigation.
Peak Warming Man said:
But, but, but it doesn’t strip the electrons from the water.
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:Besides, the irrigators down the Murumbidgee valley want all that water.
Running the water through a generator first doesn’t stop them getting it, does it?
Farmers ain’t going to pay top dollar for an irrigation license for busted arsed water with half the electrons missing.
Peak Warming Man said:
Farmers aint going to pay top dollar for an irrigation license for busted arsed water with half the electrons missing.
Hehe :)
Peak Warming Man said:
Farmers aint going to pay top dollar for an irrigation license for busted arsed water with half the electrons missing.
Hehe :)
Peak Warming Man said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:Besides, the irrigators down the Murumbidgee valley want all that water.
Running the water through a generator first doesn’t stop them getting it, does it?
Farmers aint going to pay top dollar for an irrigation license for busted arsed water with half the electrons missing.
:) You’d be surprised how close to the truth that may be.
Speedy said:
The first mention of using snow waters was in 1884 by NSW surveyor-general, PF Adams, who suggested diverting water from Island Bend to inland areas for irrigation.
at the behest of the biggest landowner in the said proposed irrigation area.. https://www.startpage.com/do/search?cmd=process_search&cat=web&query=Samuel+Mccaughey&language=english_uk&no_sugg=1&ff=&nj=1&abp=1
They are concerned however about the timing of relesed water flows. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-17/irrigators-want-reassurance-they-will-get-snowy-water/8363328
I didn’t mention it before, but my father in law, an old Civil Engineer, says that Menzies hated the Snowy Hydro Scheme and would have killed it if he dared.
It may be worthwhile seeing if Menzies succeeded in downsizing the Snowy Hydro and if so, what did it look like before it was downsized?
More about DALGETY, the Snowy Hydro and the Nation’s capital. …
The Seat of Government Act 1904 named the area around Dalgety as the site of the federal capital and said it should contain 900 square miles and access to the sea. The New South Wales Government would not agree to this and would set several conditions before entering into negotiations.
In October and November 1908 the House of Representatives and the Senate held a final ballot between Dalgety and Yass–Canberra, the latter winning the ballot. When the Seat of Government Act 1908 was passed on 14 December.
Surveyor Charles Scrivener was borrowed from New South Wales by the Commonwealth to survey the area selected. Premier Wade offered the Commonwealth 912 square miles in the area and 2 square miles at Jervis Bay which was later changed to 28 square miles and the use of the Snowy River for electricity. But it was over forty years later in 1949 that the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme started construction to solve power and irrigation problems in New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory.
mollwollfumble said:
I didn’t mention it before, but my father in law, an old Civil Engineer, says that Menzies hated the Snowy Hydro Scheme and would have killed it if he dared.It may be worthwhile seeing if Menzies succeeded in downsizing the Snowy Hydro and if so, what did it look like before it was downsized?
More about DALGETY, the Snowy Hydro and the Nation’s capital. …
The Seat of Government Act 1904 named the area around Dalgety as the site of the federal capital and said it should contain 900 square miles and access to the sea. The New South Wales Government would not agree to this and would set several conditions before entering into negotiations.
In October and November 1908 the House of Representatives and the Senate held a final ballot between Dalgety and Yass–Canberra, the latter winning the ballot. When the Seat of Government Act 1908 was passed on 14 December.
Surveyor Charles Scrivener was borrowed from New South Wales by the Commonwealth to survey the area selected. Premier Wade offered the Commonwealth 912 square miles in the area and 2 square miles at Jervis Bay which was later changed to 28 square miles and the use of the Snowy River for electricity. But it was over forty years later in 1949 that the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme started construction to solve power and irrigation problems in New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory.
From TATE:
Population 75?
“The town depends on the Snowy River for water supplies. In October 2007 the New South Wales Department of Water and Energy recommended a cut in river flows through the nearby Lake Jindabyne, to a level which may require Dalgety to import drinking water.”
So I wonder how the new pumped power will affect water flows.
mollwollfumble said:
I didn’t mention it before, but my father in law, an old Civil Engineer, says that Menzies hated the Snowy Hydro Scheme and would have killed it if he dared.It may be worthwhile seeing if Menzies succeeded in downsizing the Snowy Hydro and if so, what did it look like before it was downsized?
The approved first plan was put forward in 1948. Perhaps worthwhile looking back at that version, before Menzies caused problems.
The final plan, presented in November 1948 consisted of two physically separate projects.
There was initially a battle between NSW who wanted water for irrigation and Vic who wanted electric power. A compromise was reached where the southern section was oriented mostly towards power production and the northern section oriented mostly towards water supply for irrigation.
Broadly the northern project would divert water from the Eucumbene, upper Murrumbidgee and upper Tooma rivers into the Tumut River. These waters would be used for electricity generation in the Tumut Valley during their swift fall to the plains. They would then flow via the Tumut River into the Murrumbidgee for irrigation. The main storage for this system would be a reservoir formed by damming the Eucumbene River near Adaminaby.
In the southern project, water would be drawn from the valley of the Snowy River, diverted into the Murray and used to generate power in the course of its fall. The storage for this would be a reservoir created by damming the Snowy River at the bottom end of the Jindabyne Valley.
The Rev Dodgson said:
mollwollfumble said:
I didn’t mention it before, but my father in law, an old Civil Engineer, says that Menzies hated the Snowy Hydro Scheme and would have killed it if he dared.It may be worthwhile seeing if Menzies succeeded in downsizing the Snowy Hydro and if so, what did it look like before it was downsized?
More about DALGETY, the Snowy Hydro and the Nation’s capital. …
The Seat of Government Act 1904 named the area around Dalgety as the site of the federal capital and said it should contain 900 square miles and access to the sea. The New South Wales Government would not agree to this and would set several conditions before entering into negotiations.
In October and November 1908 the House of Representatives and the Senate held a final ballot between Dalgety and Yass–Canberra, the latter winning the ballot. When the Seat of Government Act 1908 was passed on 14 December.
Surveyor Charles Scrivener was borrowed from New South Wales by the Commonwealth to survey the area selected. Premier Wade offered the Commonwealth 912 square miles in the area and 2 square miles at Jervis Bay which was later changed to 28 square miles and the use of the Snowy River for electricity. But it was over forty years later in 1949 that the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme started construction to solve power and irrigation problems in New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory.
From TATE:
Population 75?“The town depends on the Snowy River for water supplies. In October 2007 the New South Wales Department of Water and Energy recommended a cut in river flows through the nearby Lake Jindabyne, to a level which may require Dalgety to import drinking water.”
So I wonder how the new pumped power will affect water flows.
Improve them considerably. One protest banner I have wanted for a long time to make is:
NO MORE FLOODING OF AUSTRALIAN TOWNS.
mollwollfumble said:
Improve them considerably. One protest banner I have wanted for a long time to make is:
NO MORE FLOODING OF AUSTRALIAN TOWNS.
Please show working.
mollwollfumble said:
mollwollfumble said:
I didn’t mention it before, but my father in law, an old Civil Engineer, says that Menzies hated the Snowy Hydro Scheme and would have killed it if he dared.It may be worthwhile seeing if Menzies succeeded in downsizing the Snowy Hydro and if so, what did it look like before it was downsized?
The approved first plan was put forward in 1948. Perhaps worthwhile looking back at that version, before Menzies caused problems.
The final plan, presented in November 1948 consisted of two physically separate projects.
There was initially a battle between NSW who wanted water for irrigation and Vic who wanted electric power. A compromise was reached where the southern section was oriented mostly towards power production and the northern section oriented mostly towards water supply for irrigation.
Broadly the northern project would divert water from the Eucumbene, upper Murrumbidgee and upper Tooma rivers into the Tumut River. These waters would be used for electricity generation in the Tumut Valley during their swift fall to the plains. They would then flow via the Tumut River into the Murrumbidgee for irrigation. The main storage for this system would be a reservoir formed by damming the Eucumbene River near Adaminaby.
In the southern project, water would be drawn from the valley of the Snowy River, diverted into the Murray and used to generate power in the course of its fall. The storage for this would be a reservoir created by damming the Snowy River at the bottom end of the Jindabyne Valley.
NSW didn’t want hydro power at the time as they already had plans in place for expansion of their coal power utilities.
The original Adaminaby Dam was moved further downstream and its name was changed to Eucambene Dam. This was a great waste of funds, but was masked by some another news story about politicians wasting taxpayers’ money. The political dramas were no less than what we see today; in fact, they may have been worse. I’ve read that the NSW Premier employed “agitators” in NSW to kill the momentum in support for the project.
There are thousands of interesting stories that came out of the original project. It was a different era but the politics were the same. There is no doubt that it is Australia’s greatest achievement in engineering to date, but Snowy Hydro 2.0 is simply an addition of a pipeline and power station between existing infrastructure. I find Turnbull’s comments funny…
“This is the next step in a great story of engineering in the Snowy Mountains and the courageous men and women who are confident and committed to Australia’s future.”
The greatest challenge will be for the men and women creating the spiel. The actual work, once approved, will be easy.
… and in relation to that fist plan in 1948, methinks it was not really a plan at all, just vague ideas about what may be possible. History is repeating :)
Speedy said:
… and in relation to that fist plan in 1948, methinks it was not really a plan at all, just vague ideas about what may be possible. History is repeating :)
I’m inclined to disagree. By that time all the land there had been properly surveyed, so all the details would have been in hand except …
… except for the tunnels that were greatly lengthened and bored lower down in the rock than in the 1948 plan. I know enough about the Snowy to know that the original plans had tunnels joining the reservoirs in pairs. The final version has horizontal tunnels on two levels only, which allowed free transfer of water with minimal energy loss between the reservoirs on each level. This arrangement also greatly increased the power generating capacity of the scheme.
mollwollfumble said:
Speedy said:
… and in relation to that fist plan in 1948, methinks it was not really a plan at all, just vague ideas about what may be possible. History is repeating :)
I’m inclined to disagree. By that time all the land there had been properly surveyed, so all the details would have been in hand except …
… except for the tunnels that were greatly lengthened and bored lower down in the rock than in the 1948 plan. I know enough about the Snowy to know that the original plans had tunnels joining the reservoirs in pairs. The final version has horizontal tunnels on two levels only, which allowed free transfer of water with minimal energy loss between the reservoirs on each level. This arrangement also greatly increased the power generating capacity of the scheme.
Yes, like you say it would be good to see some more info. on the original plan.
I just found extracts from Snowy by Brad Collis published online. This book was in my local library and took it away with us to the Snowies just before Christmas last year. It was great to read about it while we were actually there. We visited many hydro scheme sites including Island Bend and Major Clews’ Hut on that trip. Despite visiting that hut many times before, it was strange to walk through his home and see the everyday stuff; kitchen, curtains, shower, plants that he had planted etc. There is a group of Alpine She-oak skinks living inside the hut who run out the back door and hide when people visit :)
Found that there’s a digitised copy of Commonwealth Archives information from 1903/1904 on the survey of sites for the Federal Capital on the web.
Federal Capital. Survey of Sites
It may contain outline plans from 1904 for the Snowy Hydro.
On Page 31 to 75 is the “Proposed Barren Jack Storage Reservoir and Northern Murrumbidgee Irrigation Scheme”
Includes water flows, detailed costings and heaps of detailed maps. (From Wikipedia, the work was commenced in 1907).
Page 140 (duplicated in a hand-written copy on Page 220) has “Regarding the question of water power … Swampy Plain, Indi and Tooma Rivers … The Swampy Plain is the one I would anticipate the most from, and probably the best natural facilities exist at or near the Murray Gates, where the river flows into a steep gorge, and thence onward through what is known as the Devil’s Grip. I have a vivid recollection of the enormous quantity of water tumbling through this gorge.”
Page 226 mentions the Jindabyne Weir, so presumably that was built before 1904.
Page 232 mentions the junction of Happy Jack and Tumut Rivers as a possible water supply. On later and earlier pages there are plenty of other vague suggestions for water supply reservoirs, around Yass/Canberra for example.
Page 259 “water power … perhaps the head of the Tumut River will be found to be the most effective source. Gaugings taken at a dry period of the year at a point as high up as Happy Jack Junction would indicate that, with an effective head of 300 feet, nearly double the power needed for electric lighting can be obtained without storage. …”
Page 310, 311. The proposal for hydroelectric power in the plan for Gadara as a Capital City. “The Dubbo Creek Falls are about 24 miles easterly from Tumut, just above the junction with the Goovarviagandra(?) River … 4 cubic feet per second. This could be very largely increased by diverting … of the Goovarviagandra(?) River … 18 cubic feet per second. … Falls on Buddong Creek … Near the head of Tumut River … Near the head of Micalong Creek …
(In summary, that’s four proposed hydro power stations).
(Goodnight, to resume from Page 319 tomorrow).
Let’s go back to Page 310, and call this Showy Hydro 0.2, from 1903/1904. This is actually just a commentary on an earlier more extensive report. How does this match up with this part of the Snowy Scheme as it ended up being built?
——————
Concerning the matter of water power for electric lighting etc, certain sources of supply were submitted on page 64 of Report by Federal Capital Site Commissioners and also on Page 27 of Report by State Commissioner (Annexe B by Mr Prideham). A few particulars, since obtained by inspection, with regard to these sources are herewith supplied.
a) Heads of Goobarragandra or high falls on Dubbo Creek.
The Dubbo Creek Falls are about 24 miles easterly from Tumut on the Dubbo Creek just above its junction with the Goobarragandra River. The foot of the falls is by aneroid about 2275 feet above sea level (Trig datum) and the falls, which are of a broken character, rise to a height of about 440 feet in roughly about 18 chains. … This could be very largely increased by diverting into the Creek above the falls the waters of the Left Hand Branch of the Goobarragandra River from a point nearly 2 miles above the junction of the two streams and 100 feet above the top of the Falls … the combined flow of the two streams at time of inspection therefore amounting to about 18 cubic feet per second. …
b) Falls on Buddong Creek
These falls are about 25 miles southerly from Tumut and really comprise a double fall. From top to bottom is stated to be over 250 feet. Gaugings taken of the stream just above the falls … 6 1/2 cubic feet per second. Honeysuckle Creek can be diverted into the Buddong above the falls …
c) Near the head of the Tumut River
Lobbo Hole on this River is about 35 miles from Tumut with an approximate elevation of 2000 feet. From Lobbs Hole to the Happy Jack junction is about 22 or 23 miles and the rise in the River in that distance is about 1940 feet (by aneroid). At the Happy Jack junction rough gaugings … 85 cubic feet per second at the end of a dry Autumn. I would expect the mean discharge to be much greater than this … It will probably be found that the greatest power in the Tumut district is obtainable from this source.
d) Near the head of Micalong Creek
On the Micalong Creek between the Kiandra Track Crossing and the junction of Oaks Creek (approx 25 miles from Tumut) the stream has a fall of about 460 feet in about 2 miles. The minimum flow … 12 cubic feet per second.
Page 347. Note that the following makes sense as a very simple extension of the current Snowy scheme. Use the water of the Snowy just below Jindabyne to generate power. I should have thought of this earlier.
“In the Snowy River the Monaro district (and N.S.W.) is possessed of a most valuable asset. The river in full volume after receiving the water of the Eucambene, Crackenback and Mowembah, falls rapidly between Jindabyne and Dalgety, and in the vicinity of the junction of the MacLaughlin. … Dalgety is so situated than an aggregate of from 70,000 to 100,000 horse power might in future be developed.”
Nothing more of significance after page 347.
Let’s examine this option in a teensy bit more detail. According to Google Earth, the Snowy River below Jindabyne dam is at elevation 860 metres. The Snowy River above Dalgety is at elevation 748 metres. That gives 112 metres of drop with the flow of the Snowy River through it.
Currently, Lake Jindabyne doesn’t have a power station. Instead it has a pumping station and pumps into the Snowy-Murray tunnel where it flows west through Murray 1 and Murray 2 Power Stations before entering the Swampy Plains River and then the Murray River.
Hmm.
There are other documents in the National Archives about the prehistory of the Snowy Hydro Scheme. For example.
“A2618 DOCUMENTS 1319 TO 1356 Photocopies and press cuttings of articles of historical and scientific interest: correspondence re schemes to use water of Snowy River.
Access status: Open Location: Canberra
1834 – 1963 227216”
The next one is available digitally. It is not very useful.
This contains documents previously owned by the Snowy Mountains Authority that don’t relate to hydroelectricity. Such as press clippings, geology report, glaciation report, Hume and Hovel’s discoveries.
Another press cuttings and reports file online:
Contains a 52 page detailed account (cross sections of weirs for example) from 1920 of irrigation using the Murray, Murrumbidgee and Goulburn Rivers.
Contains “The Snowy Mountains Scheme”, by Sir William Hudson, 1956. 27 Pages. This should be interesting. How does the following figure differ from the present day Snowy Scheme? Note that North is to the left.
Other offline, of many with interesting titles.
“A659 1941/1/64 Snowy River – Suggested hydro-electric development
Access status: Open Location: Canberra
1934 – 1949 80583”
There are plenty of online photographs of the Snowy Mountains Dams, Tunnels, Earthworks and Power Stations under construction.
> How does the following figure differ from the present day Snowy Scheme?
One difference is that in the 1956 version there is no tunnel joining Eucumbene to Jindabyne, and Jindabyne is still called Adaminaby. So Presumably this is the planm before the relocation of Adaminaby township. That means that parts of the southern end of the 1956 version are different.
What I really want to see are the 1904 report on the Snowy Hydro, and the 1948 report.
Re the 1904 report, the situation was being studied as early as 1901, as in this brief press article from 3 Oct 1901.
“Mr. Pridham of the Public Works Department, is making investigations regarding the practicability of various water schemes for the proposed federal capital site. He was driven to Gadara and Batlow on Tuesday, and will be taken to Buddong Falls, up the Tumut River, and other places by the local league.”
mollwollfumble said:
Page 347. Note that the following makes sense as a very simple extension of the current Snowy scheme. Use the water of the Snowy just below Jindabyne to generate power. I should have thought of this earlier.
:)
Reading the recent press, and seeing todays SMH lead cartoon, it seems that this project has rapidly moved from MT finally doing something serious about climate change, to the latest version of the Very Fast Train project.
I wonder where the truth is.
The Rev Dodgson said:
Reading the recent press, and seeing todays SMH lead cartoon, it seems that this project has rapidly moved from MT finally doing something serious about climate change, to the latest version of the Very Fast Train project.I wonder where the truth is.
It is all kerfuffle.
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Reading the recent press, and seeing todays SMH lead cartoon, it seems that this project has rapidly moved from MT finally doing something serious about climate change, to the latest version of the Very Fast Train project.I wonder where the truth is.
It is all kerfuffle.
OK, but what sort of kerfuffle is it?
That is the question.
Probably best not to use cartoons as a news source.
Peak Warming Man said:
Probably best not to use cartoons as a news source.
Yes. There might be a Leak. Then they’ll send you the Bill.
Tamb said:
Peak Warming Man said:
Probably best not to use cartoons as a news source.
Yes. There might be a Leak. Then they’ll send you the Bill.
oh dear.
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Reading the recent press, and seeing todays SMH lead cartoon, it seems that this project has rapidly moved from MT finally doing something serious about climate change, to the latest version of the Very Fast Train project.I wonder where the truth is.
It is all kerfuffle.
OK, but what sort of kerfuffle is it?
That is the question.
A very long winded one that will be unlikely to ever end.
Tamb said:
:)
Peak Warming Man said:
Probably best not to use cartoons as a news source.
Yes. There might be a Leak. Then they’ll send you the Bill.
The Rev Dodgson said:
Reading the recent press, and seeing todays SMH lead cartoon, it seems that this project has rapidly moved from MT finally doing something serious about climate change, to the latest version of the Very Fast Train project.I wonder where the truth is.
The VFT back on the agenda? I missed that. Great. Somebody definitely died in the Liberal Party. MT is now doing all the right things.
VFT. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malcolm-turnbulls-radical-plan-to-pay-for-fast-train/news-story/57b0119d9400c6d73ee4fa6f0eb883ee
> The links would lay the foundation for a long-term plan to build a fast train network eventually running the nation’s east coast from Melbourne to Brisbane.
I wouldn’t call Canberra “on the east coast”.
mollwollfumble said:
The VFT back on the agenda? I missed that. Great. Somebody definitely died in the Liberal Party. MT is now doing all the right things.
VFT. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malcolm-turnbulls-radical-plan-to-pay-for-fast-train/news-story/57b0119d9400c6d73ee4fa6f0eb883ee
Seeing as that article is very nearly a year old, I wouldn’t be holding your breath.