I’m really glad that NASA decided on this mission.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-03-06/16-psyche-asteroid-like-no-other-metal-world-nasa-mission/8316054

Its name is 16 Psyche. At 210 kilometres wide, it is easily one of the bigger asteroids, but Psyche’s stand-out feature is that it is made almost entirely of metal. It might be the only chance we will have to study a planetary core. This mission should deliver a glimpse into the early days of our solar system, insights into the process of planet formation, and pictures of a world unlike any other.

I wonder if its metals are more pure than ones on Earth as its wouldn’t have been subject to geological activity

Cymek said:

I wonder if its metals are more pure than ones on Earth as its wouldn’t have been subject to geological activity

That’s kind of a weird thing to say. Ores exist in the earth’s crust because of geological activity.

dv said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if its metals are more pure than ones on Earth as its wouldn’t have been subject to geological activity

That’s kind of a weird thing to say. Ores exist in the earth’s crust because of geological activity.

Yes but aren’t they often mixed together because of this, would you get pure metals that aren’t mixed together, wouldn’t they be pristine from the time of formation

Cymek said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if its metals are more pure than ones on Earth as its wouldn’t have been subject to geological activity

That’s kind of a weird thing to say. Ores exist in the earth’s crust because of geological activity.

Yes but aren’t they often mixed together because of this, would you get pure metals that aren’t mixed together, wouldn’t they be pristine from the time of formation

Basically, no. There was never really pure iron on Earth until humans refined it.

Cymek said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if its metals are more pure than ones on Earth as its wouldn’t have been subject to geological activity

That’s kind of a weird thing to say. Ores exist in the earth’s crust because of geological activity.

Yes but aren’t they often mixed together because of this, would you get pure metals that aren’t mixed together, wouldn’t they be pristine from the time of formation

This asteroid is thought to be perhaps the core of an old planetoid. If this is the case then at some point in its past, the metallic core would have been a pretty dynamic place.

But what I think you are trying to ask is if the grade of the metal ore found in this asteroid is likely to be higher than ores found close to the Earth’s surface… to which the answer is most likely, yes.

dv said:

Cymek said:

dv said:

That’s kind of a weird thing to say. Ores exist in the earth’s crust because of geological activity.

Yes but aren’t they often mixed together because of this, would you get pure metals that aren’t mixed together, wouldn’t they be pristine from the time of formation

Basically, no. There was never really pure iron on Earth until humans refined it.

Ok, so all the various elements formed from supernova explosions wouldn’t be pure ?

Cymek said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

Yes but aren’t they often mixed together because of this, would you get pure metals that aren’t mixed together, wouldn’t they be pristine from the time of formation

Basically, no. There was never really pure iron on Earth until humans refined it.

Ok, so all the various elements formed from supernova explosions wouldn’t be pure ?

Asteroids are not directly formed from the remnants of supernova explosions – they are typically the result of larger bodies that coalesced and were subsequently broken up via collisions.

Cymek said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

Yes but aren’t they often mixed together because of this, would you get pure metals that aren’t mixed together, wouldn’t they be pristine from the time of formation

Basically, no. There was never really pure iron on Earth until humans refined it.

Ok, so all the various elements formed from supernova explosions wouldn’t be pure ?

Right. It’s not like there is a supernova that only churns out nickel and another one that only makes iron …

dv said:

Cymek said:

dv said:

Basically, no. There was never really pure iron on Earth until humans refined it.

Ok, so all the various elements formed from supernova explosions wouldn’t be pure ?

Right. It’s not like there is a supernova that only churns out nickel and another one that only makes iron …

No, but when one occurs does it create pure elements of various types of would they be all mixed together.

Cymek said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

Ok, so all the various elements formed from supernova explosions wouldn’t be pure ?

Right. It’s not like there is a supernova that only churns out nickel and another one that only makes iron …

No, but when one occurs does it create pure elements of various types of would they be all mixed together.

I can’t really get my head around your worldview here. They are mixed together.

dv said:

Cymek said:

dv said:

Right. It’s not like there is a supernova that only churns out nickel and another one that only makes iron …

No, but when one occurs does it create pure elements of various types of would they be all mixed together.

I can’t really get my head around your worldview here. They are mixed together.

How do they know that though, surely elements created in a supernova explosion are far more pure than anything found on planets and asteroids.

Cymek said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

No, but when one occurs does it create pure elements of various types of would they be all mixed together.

I can’t really get my head around your worldview here. They are mixed together.

How do they know that though, surely elements created in a supernova explosion are far more pure than anything found on planets and asteroids.

The elements are pure but they’re all mixed together. Once planets form, gravity and heat can sort much of them into layers etc.

Cymek said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

No, but when one occurs does it create pure elements of various types of would they be all mixed together.

I can’t really get my head around your worldview here. They are mixed together.

How do they know that though, surely elements created in a supernova explosion are far more pure than anything found on planets and asteroids.

Again, I can’t imagine why you’d think that. When a supernova occurs, a swag of heavy elements are produced, not nicely sorted by as a mixture, and that’s also mixed with all of the pre-existing material in the star which is also sloughed off at the same time, including the light ones. A supernova pumps out a mixture of dozens of elements.

When a planet forms it remains a mixture, not at all pure. Over hundreds of millions of years there will be some gravitational sorting so the heavier elements end up in the core and the light elements tend to be in the crust, with what’s left in the mantle, but even then they are both mixtures (and, in the solid earth, compounds). The key thing is that GEOLOGICAL PROCESSES can have the effect of creating relatively pure ore bodies, or in the case of some elements even small fairly pure native metal deposits. The geological processes don’t reduce the purity. Then humans came along and created very pure metals through various processes.

Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

dv said:

I can’t really get my head around your worldview here. They are mixed together.

How do they know that though, surely elements created in a supernova explosion are far more pure than anything found on planets and asteroids.

The elements are pure but they’re all mixed together.

What does that even mean? Purity is the concept directly opposite of mixing.

What I am trying to say is you have a supernova explosion, various elements are created, what size are they though are they all tiny specks or could you get pieces hundreds of tons or more in size and if so wouldn’t they be something you wouldn’t commonly find in planets, asteroids in such size.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

Cymek said:

How do they know that though, surely elements created in a supernova explosion are far more pure than anything found on planets and asteroids.

The elements are pure but they’re all mixed together.

What does that even mean? Purity is the concept directly opposite of mixing.

I assumed Cymek was confused as to whether elements like iron are actually formed in the collapsing star, or outside of it.

Cymek said:

What I am trying to say is you have a supernova explosion, various elements are created, what size are they though are they all tiny specks or could you get pieces hundreds of tons or more in size and if so wouldn’t they be something you wouldn’t commonly find in planets, asteroids in such size.

No, it’s a mixture from the start.

Cymek said:

What I am trying to say is you have a supernova explosion, various elements are created, what size are they though are they all tiny specks or could you get pieces hundreds of tons or more in size and if so wouldn’t they be something you wouldn’t commonly find in planets, asteroids in such size.

Heavy elements are formed by the collapsing and exploding star and then spewed out all over the place, in the form of a dusty cloud. Particles like iron will condense but they soon undergo chemical reactions in the interstellar medium (turning into oxides, sulphides etc).

>The nucleosynthesis, or fusion of lighter elements into heavier ones, occurs during explosive oxygen burning and silicon burning processes. Those fusion reactions create the elements silicon, sulfur, chlorine, argon, sodium, potassium, calcium, scandium, titanium and iron peak elements: vanadium, chromium, manganese, iron, cobalt, and nickel. These are called “primary elements”, in that they can be fused from pure hydrogen and helium in massive stars. As a result of their ejection from supernovae, their abundances increase within the interstellar medium.

….All nuclear fusion reactions that produce heavier elements cause the star to lose energy and are said to be endothermic reactions. The pressure that supports the star’s outer layers drops sharply. As the outer envelope is no longer sufficiently supported by the radiation pressure, the star’s gravity pulls its outer layers rapidly inward. As the star collapses, these outer layers collide with the incompressible stellar core, producing a shockwave that expands outward through the unfused material of the outer shell. The pressures and densities in the shockwave are sufficient to induce fusion in that material, and the energy released leads to the star’s explosion, dispersing material from the star into interstellar space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_nucleosynthesis

Cymek said:

What I am trying to say is you have a supernova explosion, various elements are created, what size are they though are they all tiny specks or could you get pieces hundreds of tons or more in size and if so wouldn’t they be something you wouldn’t commonly find in planets, asteroids in such size.

This isn’t a question that can be dismissed as quickly as dv seems to suggest. Although dv is totally correct.

At the time a giant star goes supernova, it exists in layers like an onion, an outer layer of hydrogen, inside that in turn of helium, carbon, oxygen, neon, magnesium, silicon, iron-nickel. As shown below (not to scale, the outer envelope is thicker and the core is smaller).

So Cymek’s question really boils down to how well those layers are mixed by the supernova explosion itself.

Here is a video simulation of a core collapse of a Type II supernova explosion. You can see how violent the mixing is. The violent mixing mixes up the elements so they become a near-uniform ionic gas. There is some slight separation, the fastest ionized oxygen, ionized calcium and ionised hydrogen for instance travel outwards at slightly different rates. But their zones overlap.

As material condenses out of this gas, the minerals formed are exactly the same as if you’d cooled a hot gas on Earth. Carbon condenses out first, as nano-diamonds at 3915 K. The next major mineral to condense out is calcium oxide at 3132 K. And so on as the gas cools. The condensed minerals grow like crystals and glasses on Earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RxIwtxdEnQ”:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RxIwtxdEnQ

mollwollfumble said:

Cymek said:

What I am trying to say is you have a supernova explosion, various elements are created, what size are they though are they all tiny specks or could you get pieces hundreds of tons or more in size and if so wouldn’t they be something you wouldn’t commonly find in planets, asteroids in such size.

This isn’t a question that can be dismissed as quickly as dv seems to suggest. Although dv is totally correct.

At the time a giant star goes supernova, it exists in layers like an onion, an outer layer of hydrogen, inside that in turn of helium, carbon, oxygen, neon, magnesium, silicon, iron-nickel. As shown below (not to scale, the outer envelope is thicker and the core is smaller).

So Cymek’s question really boils down to how well those layers are mixed by the supernova explosion itself.

Here is a video simulation of a core collapse of a Type II supernova explosion. You can see how violent the mixing is. The violent mixing mixes up the elements so they become a near-uniform ionic gas. There is some slight separation, the fastest ionized oxygen, ionized calcium and ionised hydrogen for instance travel outwards at slightly different rates. But their zones overlap.

As material condenses out of this gas, the minerals formed are exactly the same as if you’d cooled a hot gas on Earth. Carbon condenses out first, as nano-diamonds at 3915 K. The next major mineral to condense out is calcium oxide at 3132 K. And so on as the gas cools. The condensed minerals grow like crystals and glasses on Earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RxIwtxdEnQ”:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RxIwtxdEnQ

Thanks for that