dv said:

There are 73 marsupials native to Indonesia.

There are no marsupials native to East Timor.

So Australia has more marsupials than either Indonesia or PNG, so they can’t take that off us at least.

We do indeed have the freakiest monotreme. I wonder whether anyone still calls it the “duck-billed platypus” given that there are no other platypuses from which it needs to be distinguished.

Also, there is one (1) marsupial native to the Solomons.

There are also marsupials in the American countries, but pitiable numbers.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

That does not mean anything. Papua and West Papua are provinces of Indonesia. You might as well say that Tiwi Island has no geological connection to Northern Territory.

It is Indonesia’s easternmost province, which means that its fauna in not part of Indonesia but is of Papua

Again, meaningless. Indonesia is an extremely varied place, faunally. It traverses the Weber line and the Wallace line. The animals of Papua and West Papua are as much a part of Indonesian fauna as the animals of Sulawesi or Sumatra.

., You stuffed up with your statement about Indonesia having more Monotremes than anywhere else,

No, really, I didn’t. There are four monotremes in Indonesia, more than any other country, and I listed them for you before. This is pretty basic stuff: I mean I can’t imagine a ten year old not being able to follow all this.

I sincerely hope this helps.

Threatened Species

Threatened Species: The following list includes all mammals which occur in Indonesia and are rated as Critically Endangered (CR), Endangered (EN) or Vulnerable (VU) in the 2004 IUCN Red List of Threatened Animals.
http://www.animalinfo.org/country/indones.htm

On another note, the Crab Eating Macaque is one of the few mammals to live on both sides of the Wallace line. It’s native to Timor. It’s almost surprising that it never made it across the Weber line to Australia.

> There are 73 marsupials native to Indonesia.

Hmm, what are they I wonder? Are these all marsupials?

Stein’s Cuscus (Phalanger vestitus).
Plush-coated Ringtail (Pseudochirops corinnae).
Obi Cuscus (Phalanger rothschildi). (Endemic to Indonesia.)
New Guinea Pademelon (Thylogale brownii).
New Guinea Quoll (Dasyurus albopunctatus).
Dusky Pademelon (Thylogale brunii).
Doria’s Tree-kangaroo (Dendrolagus dorianus).
D’Albertis Ringtail (Pseudochirops albertisii).
White-toothed Melomys (Coccymys albidens). (Endemic to Indonesia.)
Black-spotted Cuscus (Spilocuscus rufoniger).

But that’s only ten.

mollwollfumble said:

> There are 73 marsupials native to Indonesia.

Hmm, what are they I wonder? Are these all marsupials?

Stein’s Cuscus (Phalanger vestitus).
Plush-coated Ringtail (Pseudochirops corinnae).
Obi Cuscus (Phalanger rothschildi). (Endemic to Indonesia.)
New Guinea Pademelon (Thylogale brownii).
New Guinea Quoll (Dasyurus albopunctatus).
Dusky Pademelon (Thylogale brunii).
Doria’s Tree-kangaroo (Dendrolagus dorianus).
D’Albertis Ringtail (Pseudochirops albertisii).
White-toothed Melomys (Coccymys albidens). (Endemic to Indonesia.)
Black-spotted Cuscus (Spilocuscus rufoniger).

But that’s only ten.

They also count all the ones in Papua, which should not be done without clarification.

> There are four monotremes in Indonesia

How do you know whether they are in Indonesia or Papua New Guinea?

I assume that these are the four you’re referring to.

Western long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bruijni)
Sir David’s long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus attenboroughi)
Eastern long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bartoni)
Short-beaked echidna (Tachyglossus aculeatus)

mollwollfumble said:

> There are four monotremes in Indonesia

How do you know whether they are in Indonesia or Papua New Guinea?

I assume that these are the four you’re referring to.

Western long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bruijni)
Sir David’s long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus attenboroughi)
Eastern long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bartoni)
Short-beaked echidna (Tachyglossus aculeatus)

Looks like you’re right, dv. All four are found in Indonesia but the Western long-beaked echidna is not found in Papua New Guinea.

If only Australia had held onto Papua New Guinea.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

> There are four monotremes in Indonesia

How do you know whether they are in Indonesia or Papua New Guinea?

I assume that these are the four you’re referring to.

Western long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bruijni)
Sir David’s long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus attenboroughi)
Eastern long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bartoni)
Short-beaked echidna (Tachyglossus aculeatus)

Looks like you’re right, dv. All four are found in Indonesia but the Western long-beaked echidna is not found in Papua New Guinea.

If only Australia had held onto Papua New Guinea.

Are there not still marsupials in south America?

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

> There are four monotremes in Indonesia

How do you know whether they are in Indonesia or Papua New Guinea?

I assume that these are the four you’re referring to.

Western long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bruijni)
Sir David’s long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus attenboroughi)
Eastern long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bartoni)
Short-beaked echidna (Tachyglossus aculeatus)

Looks like you’re right, dv. All four are found in Indonesia but the Western long-beaked echidna is not found in Papua New Guinea.

If only Australia had held onto Papua New Guinea.

Don’t think you are on top of this moll, dv and you are not correct. Have been there before.

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

> There are four monotremes in Indonesia

How do you know whether they are in Indonesia or Papua New Guinea?

I assume that these are the four you’re referring to.

Western long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bruijni)
Sir David’s long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus attenboroughi)
Eastern long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bartoni)
Short-beaked echidna (Tachyglossus aculeatus)

Looks like you’re right, dv. All four are found in Indonesia but the Western long-beaked echidna is not found in Papua New Guinea.

If only Australia had held onto Papua New Guinea.

Don’t think you are on top of this moll, dv and you are not correct. Have been there before.

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

> There are four monotremes in Indonesia

How do you know whether they are in Indonesia or Papua New Guinea?

I assume that these are the four you’re referring to.

Western long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bruijni)
Sir David’s long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus attenboroughi)
Eastern long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bartoni)
Short-beaked echidna (Tachyglossus aculeatus)

Are there not still marsupials in south America?

Yes, and North America, but not monotremes. The well known Virginia opossum (Didelphis virginiana) is found throughout the USA, Mexico and south to Nicaragua, but not South America.

Cripes! There are fully 99 species of marsupial in North and South America (if I’ve counted correctly). I’d only heard of two. That’s more than the number of possum species in Australia and New Guinea combined (about 70 species).

There are more endemic placental mammal species in Australia than marsupials.
If we exclude the Australian cetaceans (57 species), then there are more marsupials in Australia then placental mammals, but only just.

> Don’t think you are on top of this moll, dv and you are not correct. Have been there before.

In chat doesn’t count.

sarahs mum said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-10/hunt-on-for-long-extinct-echidna-in-australias-kimberley/8431506

“A chance discovery of an echidna skin and skull in London’s Natural History Museum suggests an echidna species, thought to have become extinct in Australia around 10,000 years ago, may be still living in the remote Kimberley region. the old skin has been confirmed as being that of a much larger western long-beaked echidna, collected in the west Kimberley in 1901.”

Confirmed how? DNA analysis I hope.

“Holy-moly that’s remarkable. Could it still be there? Three dogs are being trained to seek out echidna poo.”

The western long-beaked echidna (Zaglossus bruijni) is the only one of the four extant echidnas and the only one of three species of Zaglossus that is only found in Indonesia.

There is always the possibility that the specimen in London’s Natural History Museum was mislabeled of course, and actually came from elsewhere.

Seeing as this topic is continuing and my past comments in ‘chat’ ignored, I submit a new post that is contrary to the views expressed by dv and mollwollfumble. So just for the record:

To claim Indonesia has more Monotremes than any other country is highly misleading and contrary to common practice. All the four Monotremes occur in the Indonesian Province of Papua, which is the western half of New Guinea including several other islands. For instance New Caledonia a French Territory located in the southwest Pacific Ocean, roughly the other side of the world from France. Its indigenous flora and fauna is NOT said to be from France, but from New Caledonia. If you wanted to draw attention to the administration of the island you would then state it was a French Territory. Likewise the country with the greatest number of Monotremes is Papua, which is an Indonesian Provence.

It might appear to be a pedantic point to make, but that is how the World’s flora and fauna is usually listed, which is of considerable importance if you need additional information about Monotremes, for instance you should not expect to see Monotremes if you went to Bali, or any of the other linked volcanic islands, which collective are known as Indonesia. As for Britain in the days of the Empire, to list all the flora and fauna as British serves no purpose what-so-ever, unless it is linked to an actual country.

PermeateFree said:

It might appear to be a pedantic point to make

Not really pedantic, just plain wrong. Indonesia is a purely political entity, spanning many diverse islands over thousands of kilometres. It is diverse ethnically, geologically, and (this is the relevant part) zoologically. It spans across the Weber line and the Wallace line. There are animals that only exist, for instance, on Sumatra. There are animals that only occur in the province of West Sumatra, e.g. Kloss’s gibbon.

Nonetheless, the only possible answer to “what country is Kloss’s gibbon native to?” is Indonesia. The zoological diversity of Indonesia doesn’t alter this fact.

Similarly, the only possible answer to “how many monotremes are native to Indonesia?” is 4.
The only possible answer to “which country has the greatest number of native monotremes?” is Indonesia.

It’s not misleading. Any other answer would be just plain wrong.

You just made a mistake, PermeateFree. There’s no shame in this, intrinsically. Everyone makes mistakes.

However, not everyone handles the fact that they’ve made a mistake well, and honestly, you’re blowing this aspect.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

It might appear to be a pedantic point to make

Not really pedantic, just plain wrong. Indonesia is a purely political entity, spanning many diverse islands over thousands of kilometres. It is diverse ethnically, geologically, and (this is the relevant part) zoologically. It spans across the Weber line and the Wallace line. There are animals that only exist, for instance, on Sumatra. There are animals that only occur in the province of West Sumatra, e.g. Kloss’s gibbon.

Nonetheless, the only possible answer to “what country is Kloss’s gibbon native to?” is Indonesia. The zoological diversity of Indonesia doesn’t alter this fact.

Similarly, the only possible answer to “how many monotremes are native to Indonesia?” is 4.
The only possible answer to “which country has the greatest number of native monotremes?” is Indonesia.

It’s not misleading. Any other answer would be just plain wrong.

You just made a mistake, PermeateFree. There’s no shame in this, intrinsically. Everyone makes mistakes.

However, not everyone handles the fact that they’ve made a mistake well, and honestly, you’re blowing this aspect.

dv, it is you who is wrong, get over it. Your logic is ridiculous and serves no purpose what so ever. Even the reference you supplied listed the regions covered, thus indicating they were NOT all from the Indonesia per se. It is you that has the erred and with your inflated ego you will not even contemplate that you might be wrong, not even to yourself. Perhaps your incorrect assertion in facebook is stopping you from facing the facts.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

It might appear to be a pedantic point to make

Not really pedantic, just plain wrong. Indonesia is a purely political entity, spanning many diverse islands over thousands of kilometres. It is diverse ethnically, geologically, and (this is the relevant part) zoologically. It spans across the Weber line and the Wallace line. There are animals that only exist, for instance, on Sumatra. There are animals that only occur in the province of West Sumatra, e.g. Kloss’s gibbon.

Nonetheless, the only possible answer to “what country is Kloss’s gibbon native to?” is Indonesia. The zoological diversity of Indonesia doesn’t alter this fact.

Similarly, the only possible answer to “how many monotremes are native to Indonesia?” is 4.
The only possible answer to “which country has the greatest number of native monotremes?” is Indonesia.

It’s not misleading. Any other answer would be just plain wrong.

You just made a mistake, PermeateFree. There’s no shame in this, intrinsically. Everyone makes mistakes.

However, not everyone handles the fact that they’ve made a mistake well, and honestly, you’re blowing this aspect.

dv, it is you who is wrong, get over it. Your logic is ridiculous and serves no purpose what so ever. Even the reference you supplied listed the regions covered, thus indicating they were NOT all from the Indonesia per se. It is you that has the erred and with your inflated ego you will not even contemplate that you might be wrong, not even to yourself. Perhaps your incorrect assertion in facebook is stopping you from facing the facts.

I’m not sure I can assist you much further on this matter. I’m always eager to help but I’ve laid the facts out as plainly as I can, in different ways, several times. If you’ve got any direct questions please ask them and I’ll answer them.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Not really pedantic, just plain wrong. Indonesia is a purely political entity, spanning many diverse islands over thousands of kilometres. It is diverse ethnically, geologically, and (this is the relevant part) zoologically. It spans across the Weber line and the Wallace line. There are animals that only exist, for instance, on Sumatra. There are animals that only occur in the province of West Sumatra, e.g. Kloss’s gibbon.

Nonetheless, the only possible answer to “what country is Kloss’s gibbon native to?” is Indonesia. The zoological diversity of Indonesia doesn’t alter this fact.

Similarly, the only possible answer to “how many monotremes are native to Indonesia?” is 4.
The only possible answer to “which country has the greatest number of native monotremes?” is Indonesia.

It’s not misleading. Any other answer would be just plain wrong.

You just made a mistake, PermeateFree. There’s no shame in this, intrinsically. Everyone makes mistakes.

However, not everyone handles the fact that they’ve made a mistake well, and honestly, you’re blowing this aspect.

dv, it is you who is wrong, get over it. Your logic is ridiculous and serves no purpose what so ever. Even the reference you supplied listed the regions covered, thus indicating they were NOT all from the Indonesia per se. It is you that has the erred and with your inflated ego you will not even contemplate that you might be wrong, not even to yourself. Perhaps your incorrect assertion in facebook is stopping you from facing the facts.

I’m not sure I can assist you much further on this matter. I’m always eager to help but I’ve laid the facts out as plainly as I can, in different ways, several times. If you’ve got any direct questions please ask them and I’ll answer them.

Bury yourself I little deeper if you must and by the way, the same thing applies to West Sumatra. All the flora and fauna from that region is listed as being from West Sumatra, then it MIGHT include, Indonesia if relevant to the species and or administration. To say only that it is from Indonesia serves no purpose what so ever, other than encouraging a bit of chest beating from some Indonesians. And dv, please don’t think you are the font of all knowledge, because you fall a long way short.

West Sumatra’s not a country, PermeateFree.

If someone asked you what country Kloss’s gibbon lives in, and you say “West Sumatra”, you’d be wrong.

West Sumatra is a province on the Indonesian island of Sumatra

dv said:

West Sumatra’s not a country, PermeateFree.

If someone asked you what country Kloss’s gibbon lives in, and you say “West Sumatra”, you’d be wrong.

Now who is being pedantic. You say the same thing about Papua, but you were wrong there too.

Tau.Neutrino said:

West Sumatra is a province on the Indonesian island of Sumatra

Correct.

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

West Sumatra is a province on the Indonesian island of Sumatra

Correct.

I think you mean “right”

For those of you playing along at home, this all started with my non-controversial statement: “There are four monotremes in Indonesia”. Mollwolfumble was able to confirm it pretty quickly, as could anyone with a grain of nous.

mollwollfumble said:

> There are four monotremes in Indonesia

Looks like you’re right, dv. All four are found in Indonesia but the Western long-beaked echidna is not found in Papua New Guinea.

If only Australia had held onto Papua New Guinea.

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

West Sumatra is a province on the Indonesian island of Sumatra

Correct.

I think you mean “right”

Indubitably.

dv said:

For those of you playing along at home, this all started with my non-controversial statement: “There are four monotremes in Indonesia”. Mollwolfumble was able to confirm it pretty quickly, as could anyone with a grain of nous.

mollwollfumble said:

> There are four monotremes in Indonesia

Looks like you’re right, dv. All four are found in Indonesia but the Western long-beaked echidna is not found in Papua New Guinea.

If only Australia had held onto Papua New Guinea.

Those four Monotremes are from Papua and to say they are from Indonesia serves no purpose and is actually confusing.

PermeateFree said:

dv, it is you who is wrong, get over it. Your logic is ridiculous and serves no purpose what so ever. Even the reference you supplied listed the regions covered, thus indicating they were NOT all from the Indonesia per se. It is you that has the erred and with your inflated ego you will not even contemplate that you might be wrong, not even to yourself. Perhaps your incorrect assertion in facebook is stopping you from facing the facts.

Language is fluid and we may all have different interpretation of what words mean so I think this dispute would be best served if forumites indicate who they think is correct in this regard. I agree with DV.

You’re not raising any fresh points: just reiterating the statements that have already been shown to be false, and it’s not benefiting anyone, least of all yourself. Again, I invite you to ask any questions and I’ll answer them. I’m here because I want to help.

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

dv, it is you who is wrong, get over it. Your logic is ridiculous and serves no purpose what so ever. Even the reference you supplied listed the regions covered, thus indicating they were NOT all from the Indonesia per se. It is you that has the erred and with your inflated ego you will not even contemplate that you might be wrong, not even to yourself. Perhaps your incorrect assertion in facebook is stopping you from facing the facts.

Language is fluid and we may all have different interpretation of what words mean so I think this dispute would be best served if forumites indicate who they think is correct in this regard. I agree with DV.

That is not how science works, but is how P. Hanson does. :)

Let us take it from another standpoint, Perm.

I’ve made two statements that you object to:

*There are four species of monotreme in Indonesia. *Indonesia is the country with the greatest number of species of monotreme.

You disagree, so the obvious response is to ask you:

*How many species of monotreme are in Indonesia? *Which country has the greatest number of species of monotreme?

dv said:

You’re not raising any fresh points: just reiterating the statements that have already been shown to be false, and it’s not benefiting anyone, least of all yourself. Again, I invite you to ask any questions and I’ll answer them. I’m here because I want to help.

God, you have such an enormous ego. You have not shown my comments are false. And how is it everything you say is correct, whilst everyone else is wrong.

Think this picture is highly relevant in the circumstances.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

You’re not raising any fresh points: just reiterating the statements that have already been shown to be false, and it’s not benefiting anyone, least of all yourself. Again, I invite you to ask any questions and I’ll answer them. I’m here because I want to help.

God, you have such an enormous ego. You have not shown my comments are false. And how is it everything you say is correct, whilst everyone else is wrong.

Think this picture is highly relevant in the circumstances.

I have that picture up in the kids rooms.. the caption is “What matters most is how you see yourself”

I don’t really have much of an ego, Perm, but I do like helping people out on science-related matters. It’s a harmless hobby that sometimes rewards more than one person, and a way that I can make the world just a little better each day.

Bump

dv said:

Let us take it from another standpoint, Perm.

I’ve made two statements that you object to:

*There are four species of monotreme in Indonesia.

*Indonesia is the country with the greatest number of species of monotreme.

You disagree, so the obvious response is to ask you:

*How many species of monotreme are in Indonesia?

*Which country has the greatest number of species of monotreme?

dv said:

Let us take it from another standpoint, Perm.

I’ve made two statements that you object to:

*There are four species of monotreme in Indonesia. *Indonesia is the country with the greatest number of species of monotreme.

You disagree, so the obvious response is to ask you:

*How many species of monotreme are in Indonesia? *Which country has the greatest number of species of monotreme?

It depends in what context the informatoin is required.

If you compiling a list of all species within Indonesia and her provinces, with no purpose other that a stocktake then Indonesia would include the Monotremes.

However, for the information to be of any use, especially regarding species and distribution, the country of origin MUST be used, which is Papua. You may also include that it is an Indonesian Province and hence administration.

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

You’re not raising any fresh points: just reiterating the statements that have already been shown to be false, and it’s not benefiting anyone, least of all yourself. Again, I invite you to ask any questions and I’ll answer them. I’m here because I want to help.

God, you have such an enormous ego. You have not shown my comments are false. And how is it everything you say is correct, whilst everyone else is wrong.

Think this picture is highly relevant in the circumstances.

I have that picture up in the kids rooms.. the caption is “What matters most is how you see yourself”

About sums it up.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Let us take it from another standpoint, Perm.

I’ve made two statements that you object to:

*There are four species of monotreme in Indonesia. *Indonesia is the country with the greatest number of species of monotreme.

You disagree, so the obvious response is to ask you:

*How many species of monotreme are in Indonesia? *Which country has the greatest number of species of monotreme?

It depends in what context the informatoin is required.

Let’s suppose it is taken in the context of someone wanting to know how many species of monotreme are in Indonesia, and which country has the greatest number of species of monotreme.

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

God, you have such an enormous ego. You have not shown my comments are false. And how is it everything you say is correct, whilst everyone else is wrong.

Think this picture is highly relevant in the circumstances.

I have that picture up in the kids rooms.. the caption is “What matters most is how you see yourself”

About sums it up.

in other words… other people’s opinions of you can GAGF

That, after all, was the exact context of the original statement: it was the answer to a pop quiz question:

“Pop quiz: Which country has the most species of monotremes?”

My first answer was “I think it might be PNG”. My next answer was “Damn, the correct answer is Indonesia.”

So you see, I was able to accept that my original answer was incorrect, and set the record straight, instead of clinging vainly to an incorrect idea out of pride. You could learn a lot from my example, PermeateFree.

dv said:

I don’t really have much of an ego, Perm, but I do like helping people out on science-related matters. It’s a harmless hobby that sometimes rewards more than one person, and a way that I can make the world just a little better each day.

dv, think you are too close to the subject matter to be objective, but your ego knows no bounds. As for science matters I too have spent much of my life in the study of Australia’s flora and fauna, so am very scientific in outlook on these matters.

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

I have that picture up in the kids rooms.. the caption is “What matters most is how you see yourself”

About sums it up.

in other words… other people’s opinions of you can GAGF

You do not ask your adversaries you give you a personal reference. They are always very biased.

dv said:

That, after all, was the exact context of the original statement: it was the answer to a pop quiz question:

“Pop quiz: Which country has the most species of monotremes?”

My first answer was “I think it might be PNG”. My next answer was “Damn, the correct answer is Indonesia.”

So you see, I was able to accept that my original answer was incorrect, and set the record straight, instead of clinging vainly to an incorrect idea out of pride. You could learn a lot from my example, PermeateFree.

But that is not a mature let alone a scientific view. I know you seem to go out of your way to collect trivia, but please don’t let it always colour your view of the world.

Is there a country called Papua?

sibeen said:

Is there a country called Papua?

Was the last time I looked.

sibeen said:

Is there a country called Papua?

No, there is not.

dv said:

sibeen said:

Is there a country called Papua?

No, there is not.

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

sibeen said:

Is there a country called Papua?

No, there is not.

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

So you agree, PermeateFree, that there is not a country called Papua.

sibeen said:

Is there a country called Papua?

No, the countries in that region are Malaysia, Indonesia, The Philippines, Queensland etc.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

sibeen said:

Is there a country called Papua?

No, there is not.

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

roffle

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

No, there is not.

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

So you agree, PermeateFree, that there is not a country called Papua.

That location is known as Papua and distinguishes it from all other areas. That is why it is used in flora and fauna especially distributions.

Peak Warming Man said:

sibeen said:

Is there a country called Papua?

No, the countries in that region are Malaysia, Indonesia, The Philippines, Queensland etc.

Eddie: First question. How many species of cassowary are found in Australia?
PermeateFree: Lock in A, Eddie, it’s zero.
Eddie: Sorry, PermeateFree, the correct answer was one.
PermeateFree: That’s just your ego talking, Eddie. They are all found in Queensland.

It all comes down to what terms we use to structure the question. For example if were to ask what region of the world orangutans were native to we might suggest the islands of Borneo and Sumartra however if we asked what country the only answer is Indonesia.

Accordingly the answer to the question about monetremes is the island New Guinea, or the country Indonesia considering that West Papua is Indonesian territory.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

sibeen said:

Is there a country called Papua?

No, there is not.

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

Do I need a passport when traveling to the other countries in Australia?

poikilotherm said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

No, there is not.

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

roffle

It is a bit funny.

poikilotherm said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

No, there is not.

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

roffle

They are not my words poik. Just google Papua, heaps of references there.

Peak Warming Man said:

sibeen said:

Is there a country called Papua?

No, the countries in that region are Malaysia, Indonesia, The Philippines, Queensland etc.

queensland fits well with those other bananananana republics.

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

PermeateFree said:

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

roffle

It is a bit funny.

I don’t usually click on posts from that one, but it’s slow and this was rather amusing; mainly for your perseverance in the face of such stupid.

diddly-squat said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

No, there is not.

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

Do I need a passport when traveling to the other countries in Australia?

No, once you leave Queensland to enter Australia you will be able to travel freely within.

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

roffle

It is a bit funny.

I don’t usually click on posts from that one, but it’s slow and this was rather amusing; mainly for your perseverance in the face of such stupid.

I live only to serve others.

PermeateFree said:

poikilotherm said:

PermeateFree said:

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

roffle

They are not my words poik. Just google Papua, heaps of references there.

if those aren’t your words then I’d suggest you start writing your own because the reference site you are using are shit

PermeateFree said:

They are not my words poik.

Right but they are words that prove I’m right, that Papua is not a country. You provided a reference to back up my point. That’s very kind of you. I knew you’d come around.

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

sibeen said:

Is there a country called Papua?

No, the countries in that region are Malaysia, Indonesia, The Philippines, Queensland etc.

Eddie: First question. How many species of cassowary are found in Australia?
PermeateFree: Lock in A, Eddie, it’s zero.
Eddie: Sorry, PermeateFree, the correct answer was one.
PermeateFree: That’s just your ego talking, Eddie. They are all found in Queensland.

Queensland is actually part of Australia, makes a difference. If you ask silly questions, you get silly answers. Your quiz question is a very poor attempt to be scientific, if it ever was. For your information, if the question was asked within Australia, you could say Queensland and leave it as that. If you were more international, then it would be Australia (Queensland) or Queensland (Australia). Hope I have clarified that for you dv.

PermeateFree said:

That location is known as Papua and distinguishes it from all other areas.

The location Queensland distinguishes it from other areas.

And yet, the southern cassowary is still a bird that lives in Australia. It’s correct to say that the number of species of cassowary that live in Australia is one, not zero.

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

PermeateFree said:

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

roffle

It is a bit funny.

That is your problem dv, when the facts differ from your opinion, you ignore then, then try to undermine them. And you profess to be interested in science. Well sorry dv, it don’t work like that.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

roffle

It is a bit funny.

That is your problem dv

Probably just that I am too eager to help. Probably it would be better if I gave up on you for good, PermeateFree, but I refuse to do that. You’re a person. You have rights. I believe in you.

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

roffle

It is a bit funny.

I don’t usually click on posts from that one, but it’s slow and this was rather amusing; mainly for your perseverance in the face of such stupid.

Perhaps if you did you might learn something poik. You might even learn there is more to the bush, than getting from place to place as fast as you can. So don’t expect you to understand.

Ahh, we’ve entered the realm of “Alternative Facts”.

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

PermeateFree said:

When you fall into a hole dv, it is best to stop digging.

>>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. <<

Do I need a passport when traveling to the other countries in Australia?

No, once you leave Queensland to enter Australia you will be able to travel freely within.

You got your followers out. They don’t worry too much about facts either.

diddly-squat said:

PermeateFree said:

poikilotherm said:

roffle

They are not my words poik. Just google Papua, heaps of references there.

if those aren’t your words then I’d suggest you start writing your own because the reference site you are using are shit

Why?

sibeen said:

Ahh, we’ve entered the realm of “Alternative Facts”.

People have tried to cover up the role that echidnas played in the Bowling Green massacre.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

They are not my words poik.

Right but they are words that prove I’m right, that Papua is not a country. You provided a reference to back up my point. That’s very kind of you. I knew you’d come around.

You are just so dishonest. No wonder you never became a scientist and probably never even had an introduction.

I’m trying to remember who else it was who used to google up references, and even when the reference basically disproved their point, they posted them and carried on as though nothing had happened.

Was it Zarkov?

It’s so weird.

dv said:

sibeen said:

Ahh, we’ve entered the realm of “Alternative Facts”.

People have tried to cover up the role that echidnas played in the Bowling Green massacre.

S. Norman is still on the run, apparently.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

That location is known as Papua and distinguishes it from all other areas.

The location Queensland distinguishes it from other areas.

And yet, the southern cassowary is still a bird that lives in Australia. It’s correct to say that the number of species of cassowary that live in Australia is one, not zero.

You seem to forget dv, that little quip about the Cassowary was not from me, but YOU. What a strawman you are!

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

It is a bit funny.

That is your problem dv

Probably just that I am too eager to help. Probably it would be better if I gave up on you for good, PermeateFree, but I refuse to do that. You’re a person. You have rights. I believe in you.

Really don’t why I bother with you dv. I probably wouldn’t if you didn’t make so many silly errors. I just try to help, you see I live by science and like to see things recorded correctly.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

That is your problem dv

Probably just that I am too eager to help. Probably it would be better if I gave up on you for good, PermeateFree, but I refuse to do that. You’re a person. You have rights. I believe in you.

Really don’t why I bother with you dv. I probably wouldn’t if you didn’t make so many silly errors. I just try to help, you see I live by science and like to see things recorded correctly.

just like that El Nino eh?…

dv said:

sibeen said:

Ahh, we’ve entered the realm of “Alternative Facts”.

People have tried to cover up the role that echidnas played in the Bowling Green massacre.

for a minute there I thought we’d moved too far away from the marsupials and monotremes.. I’m glad they are back

Now that PermeateFree has gone to the trouble of finding the references that prove there are four species of monotreme in Indonesia I suspect that there’s not much more to discuss. It is certainly nice to end these things amicably. I’ll pop in a bit later to see whether I can help even more.

PermeateFree said:

You are just so dishonest. No wonder you never became a scientist and probably never even had an introduction.

I’m sure you are aware that I’m an award winning scientist and that I remain employed as a scientist until this very day as a consultant.

sibeen said:

Ahh, we’ve entered the realm of “Alternative Facts”.

Yes, when you upset one of the self proclaimed intelligentsia, you have permitted the most heinous crime, which brings out the other self opinionated ones to support and attack, or though they usually only make snide little remarks to irritate and annoy. They must be quite gutless that they can’t say anything directly.

dv said:

sibeen said:

Ahh, we’ve entered the realm of “Alternative Facts”.

People have tried to cover up the role that echidnas played in the Bowling Green massacre.

Still trying to change the subject dv and cast accusations elsewhere. It looks to me with you two, of a strawman rooting another strawman. :)

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

That location is known as Papua and distinguishes it from all other areas.

The location Queensland distinguishes it from other areas.

And yet, the southern cassowary is still a bird that lives in Australia. It’s correct to say that the number of species of cassowary that live in Australia is one, not zero.

You seem to forget dv, that little quip about the Cassowary was not from me, but YOU.

No. I did not forget that: you see, what I am doing is making a clarifying analogy. Cassowaries live in Queensland. Queensland is part of Australia. So cassowaries live in Australia. This breaks down the logic into a set of simple parts.

dv said:

I’m trying to remember who else it was who used to google up references, and even when the reference basically disproved their point, they posted them and carried on as though nothing had happened.

Was it Zarkov?

It’s so weird.

What is the matter with you dv, don’t you know how to operate Google. You are a fraudster.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

I’m trying to remember who else it was who used to google up references, and even when the reference basically disproved their point, they posted them and carried on as though nothing had happened.

Was it Zarkov?

It’s so weird.

What is the matter with you dv, don’t you know how to operate Google. You are a fraudster.

Yes I know how to operate Google but unfortunately the old forum is gone, so cannot be Googled.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

I’m trying to remember who else it was who used to google up references, and even when the reference basically disproved their point, they posted them and carried on as though nothing had happened.

Was it Zarkov?

It’s so weird.

What is the matter with you dv, don’t you know how to operate Google. You are a fraudster.

Yes I know how to operate Google but unfortunately the old forum is gone, so cannot be Googled.

It’s called The Googles for you old timers :)

stumpy_seahorse said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Probably just that I am too eager to help. Probably it would be better if I gave up on you for good, PermeateFree, but I refuse to do that. You’re a person. You have rights. I believe in you.

Really don’t why I bother with you dv. I probably wouldn’t if you didn’t make so many silly errors. I just try to help, you see I live by science and like to see things recorded correctly.

just like that El Nino eh?…

God, there all coming now to safeguard the reputation of their self-proclaimed leader. Like stamping on an ants nest around here. Pity there are no independent minds, you know someone who speaks the truth, but I obviously ask too much.

Anyway, good luck to you, PermeateFree, I bear you know malice and I hope things go better for you in the future. I don’t think you’re going to “get” this but not everyone has to get everything.

dv said:

Now that PermeateFree has gone to the trouble of finding the references that prove there are four species of monotreme in Indonesia I suspect that there’s not much more to discuss. It is certainly nice to end these things amicably. I’ll pop in a bit later to see whether I can help even more.

Typical to the man, full of confidence, never admit you are wrong, always undermine the opponent when in a tight corner. You sound like our good treasurer Scott Morrison.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

You are just so dishonest. No wonder you never became a scientist and probably never even had an introduction.

I’m sure you are aware that I’m an award winning scientist and that I remain employed as a scientist until this very day as a consultant.

You might apply science, but don’t kid yourself. You are NO scientist.

I suppose we should ask for PF to find a reference that Papua is a country.

PermeateFree said:

never admit you are wrong

On the contrary, in this very thread I have given an example of me admitting I was wrong. My first guess on the nation hosting the most monotreme species was PNG, and I admitted that was wrong. I still admit that. I made a mistake. It happens. We all make mistakes.

I fessed up and corrected it, admitting that the real answer to that question is Indonesia.

Admitting wrong can be quite refreshing and healing, PF.

Witty Rejoinder said:

I suppose we should ask for PF to find a reference that Papua is a country.

No need, he’s already provided a good reference showing that it is not a country.

Witty Rejoinder said:

I suppose we should ask for PF to find a reference that Papua is a country.

I’m actually the President.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

The location Queensland distinguishes it from other areas.

And yet, the southern cassowary is still a bird that lives in Australia. It’s correct to say that the number of species of cassowary that live in Australia is one, not zero.

You seem to forget dv, that little quip about the Cassowary was not from me, but YOU.

No. I did not forget that: you see, what I am doing is making a clarifying analogy. Cassowaries live in Queensland. Queensland is part of Australia. So cassowaries live in Australia. This breaks down the logic into a set of simple parts.

You obviously ignored my reply as to how you would refer to the Cassowaries distribution. But true to your dishonest nature, you totally ignore them and pretend they never existed. You wouldn’t be Scott Morrison by any chance. You sound just like him.

dv said:

Anyway, good luck to you, PermeateFree, I bear you know malice and I hope things go better for you in the future. I don’t think you’re going to “get” this but not everyone has to get everything.

Yes Mr Morrison.

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I suppose we should ask for PF to find a reference that Papua is a country.

No need, he’s already provided a good reference showing that it is not a country.

Investigating the differences between countries, provinces, regions and islands might provide a light-bulb moment.

I will state for the record that it looks like PF is on his own yet again and that Poik, DS, PWM, yourself and I disagree with his assertions.

Great debates of the 21st century.

D “Papua’s not a country?”

P “Oh yeah? (provides reference proving Papua’s not a country)”

D “Uh … that says Papua’s not a country.”

P “…”

D “…”

P “You’re the federal treasurer!”

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

never admit you are wrong

On the contrary, in this very thread I have given an example of me admitting I was wrong. My first guess on the nation hosting the most monotreme species was PNG, and I admitted that was wrong. I still admit that. I made a mistake. It happens. We all make mistakes.

I fessed up and corrected it, admitting that the real answer to that question is Indonesia.

Admitting wrong can be quite refreshing and healing, PF.

I too have admitted I was wrong and done so very recently, plus in bold type! That is what science is about dv, not distorting the truth to save face. To be quite frank with you dv, you are an egotistical disgrace. Never been very impressed by you and after this, even less so.

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I suppose we should ask for PF to find a reference that Papua is a country.

No need, he’s already provided a good reference showing that it is not a country.

>>The word country comes from Old French contrée, itself derived from Vulgar Latin (terra) contrata (“(land) lying opposite; (land) spread before”), derived from contra (“against, opposite”). It most likely entered the English language after the Franco-Norman invasion during the 11th century.

In English the word has increasingly become associated with political divisions, so that one sense, associated with the indefinite article – “a country” – through misuse and subsequent conflation is now a synonym for state, or a former sovereign state, in the sense of sovereign territory or “district, native land”. The Kingdom of Denmark, a sovereign state, comprises Metropolitan Denmark and two nominally separate countries—the Faroe Islands, and Greenland—which are almost fully internally self-governing. The Kingdom of the Netherlands, a sovereign state, comprises four separate countries: Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao, and Sint Maarten.<<

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country

But I reiterate, best wishes, PermeateFree. May all your dreams come true.

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I suppose we should ask for PF to find a reference that Papua is a country.

No need, he’s already provided a good reference showing that it is not a country.

Investigating the differences between countries, provinces, regions and islands might provide a light-bulb moment.

I will state for the record that it looks like PF is on his own yet again and that Poik, DS, PWM, yourself and I disagree with his assertions.

It would not matter what I say, you are a camp follower and will accept anything those on your list without contradiction. Try being independent for a change, you might get more respect.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I suppose we should ask for PF to find a reference that Papua is a country.

No need, he’s already provided a good reference showing that it is not a country.

>>The word country comes from Old French contrée, itself derived from Vulgar Latin (terra) contrata (“(land) lying opposite; (land) spread before”), derived from contra (“against, opposite”). It most likely entered the English language after the Franco-Norman invasion during the 11th century.

In English the word has increasingly become associated with political divisions, so that one sense, associated with the indefinite article – “a country” – through misuse and subsequent conflation is now a synonym for state, or a former sovereign state, in the sense of sovereign territory or “district, native land”. The Kingdom of Denmark, a sovereign state, comprises Metropolitan Denmark and two nominally separate countries—the Faroe Islands, and Greenland—which are almost fully internally self-governing. The Kingdom of the Netherlands, a sovereign state, comprises four separate countries: Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao, and Sint Maarten.<<

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country

A bit more:
Although not sovereign states, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are referred to as countries, which collectively form the United Kingdom—a sovereign state which is also referred to as a country.

I mean it’s not even a scientific question. It concerns the usage of basic geographical terms.

You know, PermeateFree, we should probably get together for a beer and nachos sometime, we’d probably get on really well in real life.

dv said:

But I reiterate, best wishes, PermeateFree. May all your dreams come true.

You are very condocending dv, but you can’t always hide your errors. Would you like to carry this argument on in Facebook? You might not have so many backers there.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

But I reiterate, best wishes, PermeateFree. May all your dreams come true.

You are very condocending dv, but you can’t always hide your errors. Would you like to carry this argument on in Facebook? You might not have so many backers there.

Sure, that’d be great!

dv said:

You know, PermeateFree, we should probably get together for a beer and nachos sometime, we’d probably get on really well in real life.

Isn’t that forbidden love ?

Witty Rejoinder said:

I mean it’s not even a scientific question. It concerns the usage of basic geographical terms.

Bit beyond you if you think that.

dv said:

You know, PermeateFree, we should probably get together for a beer and nachos sometime, we’d probably get on really well in real life.

I have no time for you at all. You use your brain to mislead when it suits you. That is not my way.

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I mean it’s not even a scientific question. It concerns the usage of basic geographical terms.

Bit beyond you if you think that.

Yes dear.

So explain how Indonesia provinces under the rule of Jakarta are separate countries while Australian states ruled from Canberra are not?

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I mean it’s not even a scientific question. It concerns the usage of basic geographical terms.

Bit beyond you if you think that.

Yes dear.

So explain how Indonesia provinces under the rule of Jakarta are separate countries while Australian states ruled from Canberra are not?

Try reading my posts instead of ignoring them, you might fucking learn something.

PermeateFree said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Yes dear.

So explain how Indonesia provinces under the rule of Jakarta are separate countries while Australian states ruled from Canberra are not?

Try reading my posts instead of ignoring them, you might fucking learn something.

Looks like you’ve realized your mistake and are giving up. Goodo.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

You know, PermeateFree, we should probably get together for a beer and nachos sometime, we’d probably get on really well in real life.

I have no time for you at all.

all evidence to the contrary

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

You know, PermeateFree, we should probably get together for a beer and nachos sometime, we’d probably get on really well in real life.

I have no time for you at all.

all evidence to the contrary

More like you are making too many errors in the fields I have some expertise. I just like to correct your comments or offer an alternative view, to which you take exception to any who dare contradict. This is usually accompanied with some very demeaning language and a how dare you question me attitude. Not the sort of thing that appeals to me at any time.

PermeateFree said:

This is usually accompanied with some very demeaning language and a how dare you question me attitude.

Well I would never dream of using demeaning language to you. I’m sure you’re a fine fellow.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

For those of you playing along at home, this all started with my non-controversial statement: “There are four monotremes in Indonesia”. Mollwolfumble was able to confirm it pretty quickly, as could anyone with a grain of nous.

mollwollfumble said:

> There are four monotremes in Indonesia

Looks like you’re right, dv. All four are found in Indonesia but the Western long-beaked echidna is not found in Papua New Guinea.

If only Australia had held onto Papua New Guinea.

Those four Monotremes are from Papua and to say they are from Indonesia serves no purpose and is actually confusing.

Indonesia just walked in and took the place.

Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

You’re not raising any fresh points: just reiterating the statements that have already been shown to be false, and it’s not benefiting anyone, least of all yourself. Again, I invite you to ask any questions and I’ll answer them. I’m here because I want to help.

God, you have such an enormous ego. You have not shown my comments are false. And how is it everything you say is correct, whilst everyone else is wrong.

Think this picture is highly relevant in the circumstances.

I have that picture up in the kids rooms.. the caption is “What matters most is how you see yourself”

The statement is about an inner mirror.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Let us take it from another standpoint, Perm.

I’ve made two statements that you object to:

*There are four species of monotreme in Indonesia. *Indonesia is the country with the greatest number of species of monotreme.

You disagree, so the obvious response is to ask you:

*How many species of monotreme are in Indonesia? *Which country has the greatest number of species of monotreme?

It depends in what context the informatoin is required.

Let’s suppose it is taken in the context of someone wanting to know how many species of monotreme are in Indonesia, and which country has the greatest number of species of monotreme.

It all would depend on which year.. whether Indonesia had taken East Timor or lost Papua.. blah..

I find the argument about Indonesia a bit dodgy.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

For those of you playing along at home, this all started with my non-controversial statement: “There are four monotremes in Indonesia”. Mollwolfumble was able to confirm it pretty quickly, as could anyone with a grain of nous.

Those four Monotremes are from Papua and to say they are from Indonesia serves no purpose and is actually confusing.

Indonesia just walked in and took the place.

Not really. Like the rest of Indonesia, Papua was a Dutch colony previously.

Same as Tasmania is part of the country of Australia because it was a British colony previously.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Those four Monotremes are from Papua and to say they are from Indonesia serves no purpose and is actually confusing.

Indonesia just walked in and took the place.

Not really. Like the rest of Indonesia, Papua was a Dutch colony previously.

Same as Tasmania is part of the country of Australia because it was a British colony previously.

And what was Indonesia before?

dv said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Those four Monotremes are from Papua and to say they are from Indonesia serves no purpose and is actually confusing.

Indonesia just walked in and took the place.

Not really. Like the rest of Indonesia, Papua was a Dutch colony previously.

Same as Tasmania is part of the country of Australia because it was a British colony previously.

I don’t think you are grasping the reality. None of the marsupials or monotremes ever saw it that way at all.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Indonesia just walked in and took the place.

Not really. Like the rest of Indonesia, Papua was a Dutch colony previously.

Same as Tasmania is part of the country of Australia because it was a British colony previously.

And what was Indonesia before?

A Dutch colony.

The country that is now Indonesia used to be The Dutch East Indies. Half of New Guinea, half of Timor, most of Borneo, Sumatra, Java, Bali, Sulawesi, etc… All the Dutch East Indies.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Indonesia just walked in and took the place.

Not really. Like the rest of Indonesia, Papua was a Dutch colony previously.

Same as Tasmania is part of the country of Australia because it was a British colony previously.

And what was Indonesia before?

Papua I think, then they moved it.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Indonesia just walked in and took the place.

Not really. Like the rest of Indonesia, Papua was a Dutch colony previously.

Same as Tasmania is part of the country of Australia because it was a British colony previously.

I don’t think you are grasping the reality. None of the marsupials or monotremes ever saw it that way at all.

they probably don’t think of themselves as marsupials or monotremes either, hmmmm.

So this question has now been resolved to everyone’s satisfaction, and we can all stop bickering about it.

JudgeMental said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Not really. Like the rest of Indonesia, Papua was a Dutch colony previously.

Same as Tasmania is part of the country of Australia because it was a British colony previously.

I don’t think you are grasping the reality. None of the marsupials or monotremes ever saw it that way at all.

they probably don’t think of themselves as marsupials or monotremes either, hmmmm.

whatever…

all tastes like chicken to me…

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Not really. Like the rest of Indonesia, Papua was a Dutch colony previously.

Same as Tasmania is part of the country of Australia because it was a British colony previously.

And what was Indonesia before?

A Dutch colony.

The country that is now Indonesia used to be The Dutch East Indies. Half of New Guinea, half of Timor, most of Borneo, Sumatra, Java, Bali, Sulawesi, etc… All the Dutch East Indies.

And the Dutch were there for spice particularly cloves which in that time were only found on two small volcanic islands and were worth more than gold.

>>The territory (Dutch New Guinea) was formally annexed by Indonesia in 1969 after the Indonesian Government conducted an event termed the Act of Free Choice, which under strong pressure from the Indonesian military, unanimously “approved” the annexation. This Act of Free Choice has been strongly criticised by the international community, including the group International Parliamentarians for West Papua, which has termed the act “the act of no choice”. Since then the Indonesian government has endorsed a policy of immigration by people from Java and some other islands (the transmigration program). Within 40 years more Javanese than Papuans lived in the former Netherlands New Guinea.<<

Hi, PF, hope you’re feeling better now. What happened to our Facebook conversation? And that beer and nachos?

PermeateFree said:

>>The territory (Dutch New Guinea) was formally annexed by Indonesia in 1969 after the Indonesian Government conducted an event termed the Act of Free Choice, which under strong pressure from the Indonesian military, unanimously “approved” the annexation. This Act of Free Choice has been strongly criticised by the international community, including the group International Parliamentarians for West Papua, which has termed the act “the act of no choice”. Since then the Indonesian government has endorsed a policy of immigration by people from Java and some other islands (the transmigration program). Within 40 years more Javanese than Papuans lived in the former Netherlands New Guinea.<<

Netherlands New Guinea

Dutch colony 1949–1962

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_New_Guinea

Tau.Neutrino said:

Netherlands New Guinea

Dutch colony 1949–1962

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_New_Guinea

IKR. Once again PF finds a reference proving I’m right. He’s a helpful fellow, like me.

dv said:

Hi, PF, hope you’re feeling better now. What happened to our Facebook conversation? And that beer and nachos?

Had a look at the moderators (whatever), very interesting. Just as bad if not worse there.

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Netherlands New Guinea

Dutch colony 1949–1962

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_New_Guinea

IKR. Once again PF finds a reference proving I’m right. He’s a helpful fellow, like me.

Control your damn ego for goodness sake. I was merely adding information, not in my or your favour. You really are a dick.

• Had a look at the moderators (whatever), very interesting. Just as bad if not worse there.

Moderators should not be allowed to control access to beer and nachos…

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Netherlands New Guinea

Dutch colony 1949–1962

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_New_Guinea

IKR. Once again PF finds a reference proving I’m right. He’s a helpful fellow, like me.

Control your damn ego for goodness sake. I was merely adding information, not in my or your favour. You really are a dick.

I’m sorry you feel that way, PF. I’ll work on being even more helpful.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Hi, PF, hope you’re feeling better now. What happened to our Facebook conversation? And that beer and nachos?

Had a look at the moderators (whatever), very interesting. Just as bad if not worse there.

I run a tight ship here.
I’m fair but firm, sometimes even hard.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Yes dear.

So explain how Indonesia provinces under the rule of Jakarta are separate countries while Australian states ruled from Canberra are not?

Ready to answer this simple question yet PF?

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Hi, PF, hope you’re feeling better now. What happened to our Facebook conversation? And that beer and nachos?

Had a look at the moderators (whatever), very interesting. Just as bad if not worse there.

LOL.

Nah serious I think we’d get on fine. We have similar interests. We’re both interested in the environment and history, we’d have a lot to talk about. Things can get tense over the internet because of lack of facial connection and because I’m a high functioning autist and you’re a complete nut, but in real life with some snacks and drinks it would go better.

Peak Warming Man said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Hi, PF, hope you’re feeling better now. What happened to our Facebook conversation? And that beer and nachos?

Had a look at the moderators (whatever), very interesting. Just as bad if not worse there.

I run a tight ship here.
I’m fair but firm, sometimes even hard.

Fair but firm like an albino’s boner

Sometimes when your in power you need to make tough decisions
I asked Gloworm and Alex to leave under 94A.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Yes dear.

So explain how Indonesia provinces under the rule of Jakarta are separate countries while Australian states ruled from Canberra are not?

Ready to answer this simple question yet PF?

I have and you would know if you could read more than one line of text.

dv said:

Nah serious I think we’d get on fine. We have similar interests. We’re both interested in the environment and history, we’d have a lot to talk about. Things can get tense over the internet because of lack of facial connection and because I’m a high functioning autist and you’re a complete nut, but in real life with some snacks and drinks it would go better.

PermeateFree said:

I have and you would know if you could read more than one line of text.

No you haven’t. Oh well you can remain blissfully ignorant I suppose. Makes no difference to me really.

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

I have and you would know if you could read more than one line of text.

No you haven’t. Oh well you can remain blissfully ignorant I suppose. Makes no difference to me really.

You are a fool, you cannot read, nor can you think. Why on earth should I be concerned about you? Why don’t you join a kindy group, which should be much easier for you.

PermeateFree said:

You are a fool, you cannot read, nor can you think. Why on earth should I be concerned about you? Why don’t you join a kindy group, which should be much easier for you.

Don’t get your knickers in a knot. We can’t all understand everything there is about the world. In this case it just happens that you suck at geography. Don’t let it get you down.

You can ask the others, they’ll tell you how great I am in person.

Arts? Judge? Great, right?

dv said:

You can ask the others, they’ll tell you how great I am in person.

Arts? Judge? Great, right?

yes. i’m your #1 fanboi.

A wringing endorsement

So what do you say? We could get Coopers to sponsor us.

dv said:

You can ask the others, they’ll tell you how great I am in person.

Arts? Judge? Great, right?

I can’t vouch for you….you’d rather have diarrhoea than meet me.

dv said:

Nah serious I think we’d get on fine. We have similar interests. We’re both interested in the environment and history, we’d have a lot to talk about. Things can get tense over the internet because of lack of facial connection and because I’m a high functioning autist and you’re a complete nut, but in real life with some snacks and drinks it would go better.

ROFL…seriously…ROFL.

Good one, Centurion :)

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

You are a fool, you cannot read, nor can you think. Why on earth should I be concerned about you? Why don’t you join a kindy group, which should be much easier for you.

Don’t get your knickers in a knot. We can’t all understand everything there is about the world. In this case it just happens that you suck at geography. Don’t let it get you down.

There is so much just washing over you and I cannot be bothered trying to explain it.

Peak Warming Man said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Hi, PF, hope you’re feeling better now. What happened to our Facebook conversation? And that beer and nachos?

Had a look at the moderators (whatever), very interesting. Just as bad if not worse there.

I run a tight ship here.
I’m fair but firm, sometimes even hard.

Loose lips, sink ships.

dv said:

Nah serious I think we’d get on fine. We have similar interests. We’re both interested in the environment and history, we’d have a lot to talk about. Things can get tense over the internet because of lack of facial connection and because I’m a high functioning autist and you’re a complete nut, but in real life with some snacks and drinks it would go better.

How do you how many of us see it the same way?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Nah serious I think we’d get on fine. We have similar interests. We’re both interested in the environment and history, we’d have a lot to talk about. Things can get tense over the internet because of lack of facial connection and because I’m a high functioning autist and you’re a complete nut, but in real life with some snacks and drinks it would go better.

How do you how many of us see it the same way?

^ know

Well that’s a serious offer so if you change your mind.

kii said:

dv said:

You can ask the others, they’ll tell you how great I am in person.

Arts? Judge? Great, right?

I can’t vouch for you….you’d rather have diarrhoea than meet me.

Now kii I never said that. It’s about even.

Peak Warming Man said:

Sometimes when your in power you need to make tough decisions
I asked Gloworm and Alex to leave under 94A.

I haven’t heard from you yet. Should I suppose that is good news?

dv said:

Well that’s a serious offer so if you change your mind.

If I do start posting there, do you Micheal Williams will continue to post? Just asking.

PermeateFree said:

There is so much just washing over you and I cannot be bothered trying to explain it.

Yeah because you’re right and everyone else is wrong. It’s not the first time and certainly not the last.

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

There is so much just washing over you and I cannot be bothered trying to explain it.

Yeah because you’re right and everyone else is wrong. It’s not the first time and certainly not the last.

Not really. Unlike you, I only remark on things I know something about. Tends to upset the armchair experts.

> There are 73 marsupials native to Indonesia.

Has anyone posted a link to this yet?

PermeateFree said:

Not really. Unlike you, I only remark on things I know something about. Tends to upset the armchair experts.

Yeah nah.

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Not really. Unlike you, I only remark on things I know something about. Tends to upset the armchair experts.

Yeah nah.

meteor craters comes to mind.

:-)

• meteor craters comes to mind.

There are no meteor craters in Indonesia¹.

¹ May not actually be correct…

sibeen said:

dv said:

Nah serious I think we’d get on fine. We have similar interests. We’re both interested in the environment and history, we’d have a lot to talk about. Things can get tense over the internet because of lack of facial connection and because I’m a high functioning autist and you’re a complete nut, but in real life with some snacks and drinks it would go better.

ROFL…seriously…ROFL.

Good one, Centurion :)

+1

I had to stop reading at that post, because the laughter tears wouldn’t let me focus properly.

JudgeMental said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Not really. Unlike you, I only remark on things I know something about. Tends to upset the armchair experts.

Yeah nah.

meteor craters comes to mind.

:-)

I believe that this came up way earlier in this thread.,

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

dv said:

Nah serious I think we’d get on fine. We have similar interests. We’re both interested in the environment and history, we’d have a lot to talk about. Things can get tense over the internet because of lack of facial connection and because I’m a high functioning autist and you’re a complete nut, but in real life with some snacks and drinks it would go better.

ROFL…seriously…ROFL.

Good one, Centurion :)

+1

I had to stop reading at that post, because the laughter tears wouldn’t let me focus properly.

It seems to be why most of us keep coming back here.

dv said:

kii said:

dv said:

You can ask the others, they’ll tell you how great I am in person.

Arts? Judge? Great, right?

I can’t vouch for you….you’d rather have diarrhoea than meet me.

Now kii I never said that. It’s about even.

dv’s fine in person. We had a fantastic conversation, without acrimony and drank copious quantities of Guinness. I certainly had a serious hangover next day. I suspect dv might’ve had one too, because he was unable to present himself for another do the next day at another pub.

furious said:

• meteor craters comes to mind.

There are no meteor craters in Indonesia¹.

¹ May not actually be correct…

What about in Papua.

Michael V said:

dv said:

kii said:

I can’t vouch for you….you’d rather have diarrhoea than meet me.

Now kii I never said that. It’s about even.

dv’s fine in person. We had a fantastic conversation, without acrimony and drank copious quantities of Guinness. I certainly had a serious hangover next day. I suspect dv might’ve had one too, because he was unable to present himself for another do the next day at another pub.

Wish I’d been there.

JudgeMental said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

Not really. Unlike you, I only remark on things I know something about. Tends to upset the armchair experts.

Yeah nah.

meteor craters comes to mind.

:-)

That is a very good example of the armchair experts thinking they know more than someone who has been studying the area for over 20 years. Yes a very good example!

Peak Warming Man said:

furious said:

• meteor craters comes to mind.

There are no meteor craters in Indonesia¹.

¹ May not actually be correct…

What about in Papua.

I’m the President of Papua, I haven’t allowed them.

sibeen said:

Peak Warming Man said:

furious said:

• meteor craters comes to mind.

There are no meteor craters in Indonesia¹.

¹ May not actually be correct…

What about in Papua.

I’m the President of Papua, I haven’t allowed them.

Can’t be any sport on the telly.

Peak Warming Man said:

furious said:

• meteor craters comes to mind.

There are no meteor craters in Indonesia¹.

¹ May not actually be correct…

What about in Papua.

THay papua up everywhere.

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

Peak Warming Man said:

What about in Papua.

I’m the President of Papua, I haven’t allowed them.

Can’t be any sport on the telly.

Sibeen can multi task, he’s ambidextrous and can hear out of both ears.

Peak Warming Man said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

I’m the President of Papua, I haven’t allowed them.

Can’t be any sport on the telly.

Sibeen can multi task, he’s ambidextrous and can hear out of both ears.

and so can his dog!

mollwollfumble said:

> There are 73 marsupials native to Indonesia.

Has anyone posted a link to this yet?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_of_Indonesia

Under Marsupialia

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

> There are 73 marsupials native to Indonesia.

Has anyone posted a link to this yet?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_of_Indonesia

Under Marsupialia

What we have learned is that marsupials and monotremes have spread with the breakup of Gondwana and remnants remain over a vast area. It is more applicable to say that the majority still exist in Australia.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

> There are 73 marsupials native to Indonesia.

Has anyone posted a link to this yet?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_of_Indonesia

Under Marsupialia

What we have learned is that marsupials and monotremes have spread with the breakup of Gondwana and remnants remain over a vast area.

Monotremes and marsupials have quite different evolutionary histories.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_of_Indonesia

Under Marsupialia

What we have learned is that marsupials and monotremes have spread with the breakup of Gondwana and remnants remain over a vast area.

Monotremes and marsupials have quite different evolutionary histories.

Wasn’t contemplating arguing thtat but if you want, I’ll give it a go.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

What we have learned is that marsupials and monotremes have spread with the breakup of Gondwana and remnants remain over a vast area.

Monotremes and marsupials have quite different evolutionary histories.

Wasn’t contemplating arguing thtat but if you want, I’ll give it a go.

Just sayin’

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Monotremes and marsupials have quite different evolutionary histories.

Wasn’t contemplating arguing thtat but if you want, I’ll give it a go.

Just sayin’

fairynuff

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Monotremes and marsupials have quite different evolutionary histories.

Wasn’t contemplating arguing thtat but if you want, I’ll give it a go.

Just sayin’

Wombats and koalas share a common ancestor (I believe) and they diverged when koalas became arboreal and wombats remained on the ground and became burrowers. Or something like that.

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Wasn’t contemplating arguing thtat but if you want, I’ll give it a go.

Just sayin’

Wombats and koalas share a common ancestor (I believe) and they diverged when koalas became arboreal and wombats remained on the ground and became burrowers. Or something like that.

Well see, I was prepared to argue that DV doesn’t own the world’s populations of marsupials and monotremes as implied by the OP.

monkey skipper said:

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

Just sayin’

Wombats and koalas share a common ancestor (I believe) and they diverged when koalas became arboreal and wombats remained on the ground and became burrowers. Or something like that.

Well see, I was prepared to argue that DV doesn’t own the world’s populations of marsupials and monotremes as implied by the OP.

Well I didn’t call it that.

dv said:

monkey skipper said:

monkey skipper said:

Wombats and koalas share a common ancestor (I believe) and they diverged when koalas became arboreal and wombats remained on the ground and became burrowers. Or something like that.

Well see, I was prepared to argue that DV doesn’t own the world’s populations of marsupials and monotremes as implied by the OP.

Well I didn’t call it that.

True.

There’s been a bit of a barney about monotremes and it would be fair to say that there is no clear consensus on when they diverged.

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

monkey skipper said:

Well see, I was prepared to argue that DV doesn’t own the world’s populations of marsupials and monotremes as implied by the OP.

Well I didn’t call it that.

True.

So what are we arguing here?

dv said:

There’s been a bit of a barney about monotremes and it would be fair to say that there is no clear consensus on when they diverged.

See. It isn’t difficult to admit defeat.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

There’s been a bit of a barney about monotremes and it would be fair to say that there is no clear consensus on when they diverged.

See. It isn’t difficult to admit defeat.

It’s the easiest thing.

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

dv said:

Well I didn’t call it that.

True.

So what are we arguing here?

I don’t believe we are arguing.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

monkey skipper said:

True.

So what are we arguing here?

I don’t believe we are arguing.

as you were then.

As dv has managed to swivel this debate to appear he is correct. Let us look at the first of my posts into this thread, then you can make up your own minds as to who has the most realistic proposition.

>>To claim Indonesia has more Monotremes than any other country is highly misleading and contrary to common practice. All the four Monotremes occur in the Indonesian Province of Papua, which is the western half of New Guinea including several other islands. For instance New Caledonia a French Territory located in the southwest Pacific Ocean, roughly the other side of the world from France. Its indigenous flora and fauna is NOT said to be from France, but from New Caledonia. If you wanted to draw attention to the administration of the island you would then state it was a French Territory. Likewise the country with the greatest number of Monotremes is Papua, which is an Indonesian Provence.

It might appear to be a pedantic point to make, but that is how the World’s flora and fauna is usually listed, which is of considerable importance if you need additional information about Monotremes, for instance you should not expect to see Monotremes if you went to Bali, or any of the other linked volcanic islands, which collective are known as Indonesia. As for Britain in the days of the Empire, to list all the flora and fauna as British serves no purpose what-so-ever, unless it is linked to an actual country.

PermeateFree said:

As dv has managed to swivel this debate to appear he is correct. Let us look at the first of my posts into this thread, then you can make up your own minds as to who has the most realistic proposition.

>>To claim Indonesia has more Monotremes than any other country is highly misleading and contrary to common practice. All the four Monotremes occur in the Indonesian Province of Papua, which is the western half of New Guinea including several other islands. For instance New Caledonia a French Territory located in the southwest Pacific Ocean, roughly the other side of the world from France. Its indigenous flora and fauna is NOT said to be from France, but from New Caledonia. If you wanted to draw attention to the administration of the island you would then state it was a French Territory. Likewise the country with the greatest number of Monotremes is Papua, which is an Indonesian Provence.

It might appear to be a pedantic point to make, but that is how the World’s flora and fauna is usually listed, which is of considerable importance if you need additional information about Monotremes, for instance you should not expect to see Monotremes if you went to Bali, or any of the other linked volcanic islands, which collective are known as Indonesia. As for Britain in the days of the Empire, to list all the flora and fauna as British serves no purpose what-so-ever, unless it is linked to an actual country.

Yep, mind made up.

DV 1

PF 0

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

As dv has managed to swivel this debate to appear he is correct. Let us look at the first of my posts into this thread, then you can make up your own minds as to who has the most realistic proposition.

>>To claim Indonesia has more Monotremes than any other country is highly misleading and contrary to common practice. All the four Monotremes occur in the Indonesian Province of Papua, which is the western half of New Guinea including several other islands. For instance New Caledonia a French Territory located in the southwest Pacific Ocean, roughly the other side of the world from France. Its indigenous flora and fauna is NOT said to be from France, but from New Caledonia. If you wanted to draw attention to the administration of the island you would then state it was a French Territory. Likewise the country with the greatest number of Monotremes is Papua, which is an Indonesian Provence.

It might appear to be a pedantic point to make, but that is how the World’s flora and fauna is usually listed, which is of considerable importance if you need additional information about Monotremes, for instance you should not expect to see Monotremes if you went to Bali, or any of the other linked volcanic islands, which collective are known as Indonesia. As for Britain in the days of the Empire, to list all the flora and fauna as British serves no purpose what-so-ever, unless it is linked to an actual country.

Yep, mind made up.

DV 1

PF 0

If the Monotremes played football or cricket, your contribution would carry more weight.

PF is actually correct that the distribution of monotremes is usually given as “Australia and New Guinea”, presumably because this is the most geographically pertinent description.

Bubblecar said:

PF is actually correct that the distribution of monotremes is usually given as “Australia and New Guinea”, presumably because this is the most geographically pertinent description.

No-one disputes that West Papua is part of the island of New Guinea.

Opps

… No-one disputes that West Papua is not part of the island of New Guinea.

Eeerrgh… too early for functioning thought processes. Rest assured that at least one of those above statements is true.

Bubblecar said:

PF is actually correct that the distribution of monotremes is usually given as “Australia and New Guinea”, presumably because this is the most geographically pertinent description.

Yep, he’s said many correct things. Our dispute is not about that.

On the other hand, our dispute is about the answer to the popquiz question: “Which country has the most species of monotreme?”.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

PF is actually correct that the distribution of monotremes is usually given as “Australia and New Guinea”, presumably because this is the most geographically pertinent description.

Yep, he’s said many correct things. Our dispute is not about that.

On the other hand, our dispute is about the answer to the popquiz question: “Which country has the most species of monotreme?”.

I think I know this one…is it…Queensland?

Witty Rejoinder said:

Eeerrgh… too early for functioning thought processes. Rest assured that at least one of those above statements is true.

I’m pretty sure they are both wrong.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

PF is actually correct that the distribution of monotremes is usually given as “Australia and New Guinea”, presumably because this is the most geographically pertinent description.

Yep, he’s said many correct things. Our dispute is not about that.

On the other hand, our dispute is about the answer to the popquiz question: “Which country has the most species of monotreme?”.

Never mind that.

Who had the last word?

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

PF is actually correct that the distribution of monotremes is usually given as “Australia and New Guinea”, presumably because this is the most geographically pertinent description.

Yep, he’s said many correct things. Our dispute is not about that.

On the other hand, our dispute is about the answer to the popquiz question: “Which country has the most species of monotreme?”.

Never mind that.

Who had the last word?

Hehe.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

PF is actually correct that the distribution of monotremes is usually given as “Australia and New Guinea”, presumably because this is the most geographically pertinent description.

Yep, he’s said many correct things. Our dispute is not about that.

On the other hand, our dispute is about the answer to the popquiz question: “Which country has the most species of monotreme?”.

Never mind that.

Who had the last word?

As I type this? Me.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

PF is actually correct that the distribution of monotremes is usually given as “Australia and New Guinea”, presumably because this is the most geographically pertinent description.

Yep, he’s said many correct things. Our dispute is not about that.

On the other hand, our dispute is about the answer to the popquiz question: “Which country has the most species of monotreme?”.

Not correct! My first post in ‘chat’ concerning this subject was very similar to my first post in this thread, namely to claim Indonesia has more Monotremes than any other country is highly misleading and contrary to common practice, etc.

Unless you’ve got anything new to bring to the table, Perm, I think this one is done and dusted.

• Unless you’ve got anything new to bring to the table, Perm, I think this one is done and dusted.

His dad is stronger than your dad…

furious said:

• Unless you’ve got anything new to bring to the table, Perm, I think this one is done and dusted.

His dad is stronger than your dad…

This is a fair bet.

dv said:

Unless you’ve got anything new to bring to the table, Perm, I think this one is done and dusted.

No, just correcting your statement. You cannot just walk away from a debate like this, claiming something something that is not true and makes you correct.

Okay, so nothing. Good day to you. I hope the weather is fair where you are.

dv said:

Okay, so nothing. Good day to you. I hope the weather is fair where you are.

It was not nothing, you were lying to save face.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Okay, so nothing. Good day to you. I hope the weather is fair where you are.

It was not nothing, you were lying to save face.

Perm, nothing I’ve said here has been a lie, or even incorrect. What the fuck is wrong with you? Seriously. How do you even survive?

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Unless you’ve got anything new to bring to the table, Perm, I think this one is done and dusted.

No, just correcting your statement. You cannot just walk away from a debate like this, claiming something something that is not true and makes you correct.

You have quoted the wikipedia article on ‘Countries’ with regards the UK and the Netherlands having subnational regions that are also called countries: countries within countries so to speak.

Without getting into a discussion about the 1707 Act of Union it remains that the UK and the Netherlands are largely unique in this respect with other nations calling subnational regions something else. For example Australia and the US have states, Canada and Indonesia have provinces, France has departments etc.

Accordingly i think there is little evidence of Papua being called a country within Indonesia as you contend.

Japan has Prefectures.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Okay, so nothing. Good day to you. I hope the weather is fair where you are.

It was not nothing, you were lying to save face.

Perm, nothing I’ve said here has been a lie, or even incorrect. What the fuck is wrong with you? Seriously. How do you even survive?

I might ask you the same thing, you lied, I said nothing about a popquiz, or even that the list was wrong. You decided to attack me for bringing some reality to the discussion that did not match with your own concepts. Just what sort of self-obsessed world do you live in?

Here’s

Michael Thomson Pop quiz: Which country has the most species of monotremes?

Me: I think it might be PNG

Me: Damn, the correct answer is Indonesia. Indonesia has more species of monotreme than any other nation.

—-

There’s no-one sane who thinks that’s not the right answer. There’s no other correct answer. It’s unambiguous. It can’t be misleading because it is literally the only answer.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Okay, so nothing. Good day to you. I hope the weather is fair where you are.

It was not nothing, you were lying to save face.

Peak Warming Man said:

Japan has Prefectures.

The UK has ridings IYKWIM

Each of us is right in our own small way, so let’s all shake hands and call it a day.

Bubblecar said:

Each of us is right in our own small way, so let’s all shake hands and call it a day.

Except PF, he is clearly wrong.

Witty Rejoinder said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Unless you’ve got anything new to bring to the table, Perm, I think this one is done and dusted.

No, just correcting your statement. You cannot just walk away from a debate like this, claiming something something that is not true and makes you correct.

You have quoted the wikipedia article on ‘Countries’ with regards the UK and the Netherlands having subnational regions that are also called countries: countries within countries so to speak.

Without getting into a discussion about the 1707 Act of Union it remains that the UK and the Netherlands are largely unique in this respect with other nations calling subnational regions something else. For example Australia and the US have states, Canada and Indonesia have provinces, France has departments etc.

Accordingly i think there is little evidence of Papua being called a country within Indonesia as you contend.

That is not the point! If you are to produce a list such as is the case here, then it should be useful and without some indication to their distribution it is noting more than a list of animals, which is misleading for the reasons I have given on numerous occasions.

Our Daddy’s rich and our Mama is good-looking
So hush little babies don’t let’s cry

If we did not have an ego we would not be here tonight
If we did not have an ego we might not think that we were right

Everything is beautiful in its own way
Like a starry summer night
Or a snow covered winter’s day

She loves you yeah yeah yeah

In some ways, I hope you’re trolling, Perm, because if so, you’re a deadset gun at it. I’ll go out and buy a hat so I can take it off to you.

dv said:

Here’s

Michael Thomson Pop quiz: Which country has the most species of monotremes?

Me: I think it might be PNG

Me: Damn, the correct answer is Indonesia. Indonesia has more species of monotreme than any other nation.

—-

There’s no-one sane who thinks that’s not the right answer. There’s no other correct answer. It’s unambiguous. It can’t be misleading because it is literally the only answer.

I think you should re-read my first post in this thread, which very similar to my first post in chat about this same subject. You are putting words into my mouth and making assumptions that are unambiguously incorrect.

>>Seeing as this topic is continuing and my past comments in ‘chat’ ignored, I submit a new post that is contrary to the views expressed by dv and mollwollfumble. So just for the record:

To claim Indonesia has more Monotremes than any other country is highly misleading and contrary to common practice. All the four Monotremes occur in the Indonesian Province of Papua, which is the western half of New Guinea including several other islands. For instance New Caledonia a French Territory located in the southwest Pacific Ocean, roughly the other side of the world from France. Its indigenous flora and fauna is NOT said to be from France, but from New Caledonia. If you wanted to draw attention to the administration of the island you would then state it was a French Territory. Likewise the country with the greatest number of Monotremes is Papua, which is an Indonesian Provence.

It might appear to be a pedantic point to make, but that is how the World’s flora and fauna is usually listed, which is of considerable importance if you need additional information about Monotremes, for instance you should not expect to see Monotremes if you went to Bali, or any of the other linked volcanic islands, which collective are known as Indonesia. As for Britain in the days of the Empire, to list all the flora and fauna as British serves no purpose what-so-ever, unless it is linked to an actual country.

dv said:

In some ways, I hope you’re trolling, Perm, because if so, you’re a deadset gun at it. I’ll go out and buy a hat so I can take it off to you.

I bought a new gardening hat in the chemist last week.

A bit ironic now, looking at the garden.

dv said:

In some ways, I hope you’re trolling, Perm, because if so, you’re a deadset gun at it. I’ll go out and buy a hat so I can take it off to you.

I suggest you read my last post. You cannot bully, and demand your way by force of numbers, just to satisfy your ego.

dv said:

Here’s

Michael Thomson Pop quiz: Which country has the most species of monotremes?

Me: I think it might be PNG

Me: Damn, the correct answer is Indonesia. Indonesia has more species of monotreme than any other nation.

—-

There’s no-one sane who thinks that’s not the right answer. There’s no other correct answer. It’s unambiguous. It can’t be misleading because it is literally the only answer.

And here’s your first response on it.

ID: 1048590 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree: Those are from Western PNG an Indonesian territory, not the country Indonesia.

Which is three different kinds of wrong. It’s not Western PNG, it’s not an Indonesian territory (western New Guinea comprises two Indonesian provinces), and it is the country Indonesia.

Your next contribution:

ID: 1048592
Subject: re: April Chat

PermeateFree: Sorry, of course, all of Papua in really Indonesia.

and then

ID: 1048596
Subject: re: April Chat

PermeateFree: There is also a difference in calling the western half of New Guinea. Indonesia. Although dv would not agree, because it makes his initial statement about Indonesia having more Monotremes than anyone else is a stretch on reality.

Your next few posts on the topic are calling people fuckwits. Not even kidding.

You embedded yourself in a few mistakes, and then instead of just self correcting, you doubled down and couldn’t get yourself out.

Atop this thread, you’ll see what to do when you make a mistake, as I did in my initial guess that PNG was the right answer. Immediately self-correct. Dragging this out has been bad for you,

Dv is right that the country with the most monotremes is Indonesia, but while that’s an interesting fact, PF is right that it’s more geographically helpful to say that those monotremes are found on the island of New Guinea.

So we’re all happy, and we agree that going through it all yet again would be a childish waste of time.

Bubblecar said:

Our Daddy’s rich and our Mama is good-looking
So hush little babies don’t let’s cry

If we did not have an ego we would not be here tonight
If we did not have an ego we might not think that we were right

Everything is beautiful in its own way
Like a starry summer night
Or a snow covered winter’s day

She loves you yeah yeah yeah

You may think this thread is repeating
repeating
repeating
repeating
You may think this thread is repeating
….

Oh no
Oh no
Oh no
Oh no
Oh no
…
‘cause
Each post it
is different
from any
before it
Each post it
is different
It is now

dv said:

dv said:

Here’s

Michael Thomson Pop quiz: Which country has the most species of monotremes?

Me: I think it might be PNG

Me: Damn, the correct answer is Indonesia. Indonesia has more species of monotreme than any other nation.

—-

There’s no-one sane who thinks that’s not the right answer. There’s no other correct answer. It’s unambiguous. It can’t be misleading because it is literally the only answer.

And here’s your first response on it.

ID: 1048590 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree: Those are from Western PNG an Indonesian territory, not the country Indonesia.

Which is three different kinds of wrong. It’s not Western PNG, it’s not an Indonesian territory (western New Guinea comprises two Indonesian provinces), and it is the country Indonesia.

Your next contribution:

ID: 1048592
Subject: re: April Chat

PermeateFree: Sorry, of course, all of Papua in really Indonesia.

and then

ID: 1048596
Subject: re: April Chat

PermeateFree: There is also a difference in calling the western half of New Guinea. Indonesia. Although dv would not agree, because it makes his initial statement about Indonesia having more Monotremes than anyone else is a stretch on reality.

Your next few posts on the topic are calling people fuckwits. Not even kidding.

You embedded yourself in a few mistakes, and then instead of just self correcting, you doubled down and couldn’t get yourself out.

Atop this thread, you’ll see what to do when you make a mistake, as I did in my initial guess that PNG was the right answer. Immediately self-correct. Dragging this out has been bad for you,

One of those was said in jest, but I don’t expect to understand my humor as I don’t get yours either. Big deal about western PNG, it was clearly and correctly stated in my first post. However that error is not important in the context of a list of animals, it was their distribution that was missing. The fuckwits were your fuckwits, just trying to stir things up without any attempt to contribute sensibly.

I again repeat my first post as you are obviously ignoring it because it makes a mockery of your assertions.

>>Seeing as this topic is continuing and my past comments in ‘chat’ ignored, I submit a new post that is contrary to the views expressed by dv and mollwollfumble. So just for the record:

To claim Indonesia has more Monotremes than any other country is highly misleading and contrary to common practice. All the four Monotremes occur in the Indonesian Province of Papua, which is the western half of New Guinea including several other islands. For instance New Caledonia a French Territory located in the southwest Pacific Ocean, roughly the other side of the world from France. Its indigenous flora and fauna is NOT said to be from France, but from New Caledonia. If you wanted to draw attention to the administration of the island you would then state it was a French Territory. Likewise the country with the greatest number of Monotremes is Papua, which is an Indonesian Provence.

It might appear to be a pedantic point to make, but that is how the World’s flora and fauna is usually listed, which is of considerable importance if you need additional information about Monotremes, for instance you should not expect to see Monotremes if you went to Bali, or any of the other linked volcanic islands, which collective are known as Indonesia. As for Britain in the days of the Empire, to list all the flora and fauna as British serves no purpose what-so-ever, unless it is linked to an actual country.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

In some ways, I hope you’re trolling, Perm, because if so, you’re a deadset gun at it. I’ll go out and buy a hat so I can take it off to you.

I bought a new gardening hat in the chemist last week.

A bit ironic now, looking at the garden.

Could you please mail it to me?

Just in case there is anyone who doesn’t know the source of my little song in the previous post, it is:

This Moment

Bubblecar said:

Dv is right that the country with the most monotremes is Indonesia, but while that’s an interesting fact, PF is right that it’s more geographically helpful to say that those monotremes are found on the island of New Guinea.

So we’re all happy, and we agree that going through it all yet again would be a childish waste of time.

Well if he read my posts I did not disagree with the list contents, only it was misleading in its current form. The rest is purely in dv’s mind, he obviously felt threatened by an adverse comment.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Just in case there is anyone who doesn’t know the source of my little song in the previous post, it is:

This Moment

That is bloody terrible.

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Just in case there is anyone who doesn’t know the source of my little song in the previous post, it is:

This Moment

That is bloody terrible.

It is a bit taxing.

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Just in case there is anyone who doesn’t know the source of my little song in the previous post, it is:

This Moment

That is bloody terrible.

Thank you PWM, your humorous irony is always appreciated.

So now that everyone has viewed the link, and is feeling calmed down, spaced out, and in an incredibly good and optimistic mood, we may move on to some other important question.

For instance; is England really a country?
I don’t think so.
An ex-country, at best.

Goodness this place is getting weirder.

Bubblecar said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Just in case there is anyone who doesn’t know the source of my little song in the previous post, it is:

This Moment

That is bloody terrible.

It is a bit taxing.

Looks over glasses.

Don’t try to emulate PWM Bubblecar. It’s not your forte.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Just in case there is anyone who doesn’t know the source of my little song in the previous post, it is:

This Moment

That is bloody terrible.

Thank you PWM, your humorous irony is always appreciated.

So now that everyone has viewed the link, and is feeling calmed down, spaced out, and in an incredibly good and optimistic mood, we may move on to some other important question.

For instance; is England really a country?
I don’t think so.
An ex-country, at best.

Watch this space for further updates

Actually, now I think about it… Perm is showing some decent signs of being a troll. I was done with it, happy for him to stay wrong, so he drew me back in by personalising it, calling me a liar. I’m not so dead that I could let that stand so I then have to come back and specifically show how he started the conversation by fucking up: he didn’t start by saying that the statement was misleading, he started with a series of geographical errors and then went straight to calling WR a fuckwit for some reason.

This kind of thing feels strategic.

One for the Rev:

Blackmore’s Night – Loreley

So how dead are you, dv?

Bubblecar said:

One for the Rev:

Blackmore’s Night – Loreley

A bit over-popular, but otherwise very nice. :)

Somewhat Steeleye Spanish.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

One for the Rev:

Blackmore’s Night – Loreley

A bit over-popular, but otherwise very nice. :)

Somewhat Steeleye Spanish.

They are in that sort of vein. Here’s a more recent song – sort of British folk rock meets Eurovision but with an American accent:

Blackmore’s Night – Will O’ The Wisp

dv said:

Actually, now I think about it… Perm is showing some decent signs of being a troll. I was done with it, happy for him to stay wrong, so he drew me back in by personalising it, calling me a liar. I’m not so dead that I could let that stand so I then have to come back and specifically show how he started the conversation by fucking up: he didn’t start by saying that the statement was misleading, he started with a series of geographical errors and then went straight to calling WR a fuckwit for some reason.

This kind of thing feels strategic.

You are unbelievable!!! I write a simple piece about the fauna list was misleading, was not even criticising anyone. So this egotistical clown says no you are wrong and I am right……What for? Having a different view and trying to bring a little reality into his simplistic concept? Now I’m a troll! You really are the pits.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Actually, now I think about it… Perm is showing some decent signs of being a troll. I was done with it, happy for him to stay wrong, so he drew me back in by personalising it, calling me a liar. I’m not so dead that I could let that stand so I then have to come back and specifically show how he started the conversation by fucking up: he didn’t start by saying that the statement was misleading, he started with a series of geographical errors and then went straight to calling WR a fuckwit for some reason.

This kind of thing feels strategic.

You are unbelievable!!! I write a simple piece about the fauna list being misleading, and was not even criticising anyone. So this egotistical clown says no you are wrong and I am right……What for? Having a different view and trying to bring a little reality into his simplistic concept? Now I’m a troll! You really are the pits.

dv, just in case you missed my first post, I repeat yet again, purely for YOUR benefit!

>>Seeing as this topic is continuing and my past comments in ‘chat’ ignored, I submit a new post that is contrary to the views expressed by dv and mollwollfumble. So just for the record:

To claim Indonesia has more Monotremes than any other country is highly misleading and contrary to common practice. All the four Monotremes occur in the Indonesian Province of Papua, which is the western half of New Guinea including several other islands. For instance New Caledonia a French Territory located in the southwest Pacific Ocean, roughly the other side of the world from France. Its indigenous flora and fauna is NOT said to be from France, but from New Caledonia. If you wanted to draw attention to the administration of the island you would then state it was a French Territory. Likewise the country with the greatest number of Monotremes is Papua, which is an Indonesian Provence.

It might appear to be a pedantic point to make, but that is how the World’s flora and fauna is usually listed, which is of considerable importance if you need additional information about Monotremes, for instance you should not expect to see Monotremes if you went to Bali, or any of the other linked volcanic islands, which collective are known as Indonesia. As for Britain in the days of the Empire, to list all the flora and fauna as British serves no purpose what-so-ever, unless it is linked to an actual country.

The divergence between Yinotheria (including modern monotremes) and Theriiformes (including marsupials and placentals) took place some time between 190 and 240 million years ago. The fossil evidence is pretty scant so there’s quite some disagreement there.

There’s also disagreement on whether the earliest Yinotheria were egg layers. It is possible that early mammals were already giving live birth, and then egg-laying was a later regained trait.

There are Yinotheria fossils from Madagascar, Europe, Asia, South America. They seem to have been an important clade in the Jurassic.

But, not long after the K-T extinction event, there were no monotreme-like animals outside “the Sahul”. In fairness there could have been some in Antarctica: we don’t have a great coverage of the fossil record from that Continent because so much of it is under ice. And hard to explore.

A basic “story” about why this happened is that, post-K-T, monotremes could not compete with placental mammals, and so they only survived this side of the Wallace Line.

dv said:

The divergence between Yinotheria (including modern monotremes) and Theriiformes (including marsupials and placentals) took place some time between 190 and 240 million years ago. The fossil evidence is pretty scant so there’s quite some disagreement there.

There’s also disagreement on whether the earliest Yinotheria were egg layers. It is possible that early mammals were already giving live birth, and then egg-laying was a later regained trait.

There are Yinotheria fossils from Madagascar, Europe, Asia, South America. They seem to have been an important clade in the Jurassic.

But, not long after the K-T extinction event, there were no monotreme-like animals outside “the Sahul”. In fairness there could have been some in Antarctica: we don’t have a great coverage of the fossil record from that Continent because so much of it is under ice. And hard to explore.

A basic “story” about why this happened is that, post-K-T, monotremes could not compete with placental mammals, and so they only survived this side of the Wallace Line.

:)

“dv, just in case you missed my first post, I repeat yet again, purely for YOUR benefit!”

That wasn’t your first post. I’ve posted your first post already, which was:
ID: 1048590 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree: Those are from Western PNG an Indonesian territory, not the country Indonesia.

dv said:

The divergence between Yinotheria (including modern monotremes) and Theriiformes (including marsupials and placentals) took place some time between 190 and 240 million years ago. The fossil evidence is pretty scant so there’s quite some disagreement there.

There’s also disagreement on whether the earliest Yinotheria were egg layers. It is possible that early mammals were already giving live birth, and then egg-laying was a later regained trait.

There are Yinotheria fossils from Madagascar, Europe, Asia, South America. They seem to have been an important clade in the Jurassic.

But, not long after the K-T extinction event, there were no monotreme-like animals outside “the Sahul”. In fairness there could have been some in Antarctica: we don’t have a great coverage of the fossil record from that Continent because so much of it is under ice. And hard to explore.

A basic “story” about why this happened is that, post-K-T, monotremes could not compete with placental mammals, and so they only survived this side of the Wallace Line.

Have they explored for fossils on both sides of the Grommit line ?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Just in case there is anyone who doesn’t know the source of my little song in the previous post, it is:

This Moment

That is bloody terrible.

Thank you PWM, your humorous irony is always appreciated.

So now that everyone has viewed the link, and is feeling calmed down, spaced out, and in an incredibly good and optimistic mood, we may move on to some other important question.

For instance; is England really a country?
I don’t think so.
An ex-country, at best.

don’t you dis my mother country now!!!

kii said:

So how dead are you, dv?

well, he wasn’t smelling friday night.

dv said:

“dv, just in case you missed my first post, I repeat yet again, purely for YOUR benefit!”

That wasn’t your first post. I’ve posted your first post already, which was:
ID: 1048590 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree: Those are from Western PNG an Indonesian territory, not the country Indonesia.

It was my first post in THIS tread and should you look more closely it says JUST FOR THE RECORD.

Re the other first post in chat, perhaps you might like to reproduce the entire post here, so we might all see my huge blunder, or your great exaggeration!

Got to go now, but shall be lack later to answer your grave accusations.

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

That is bloody terrible.

Thank you PWM, your humorous irony is always appreciated.

So now that everyone has viewed the link, and is feeling calmed down, spaced out, and in an incredibly good and optimistic mood, we may move on to some other important question.

For instance; is England really a country?
I don’t think so.
An ex-country, at best.

don’t you dis my mother country now!!!

As a person of Scottish heritage, my respect for your mother-region is every bit as great as that of the NZer for Australia.

Right? No need to reinvent history.

Just so there is full context, here are your first ten posts on this topic.

ID: 1048590 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree: Those are from Western PNG an Indonesian territory, not the country Indonesia.

ID: 1048592 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree: Sorry, of course, all of Papua in really Indonesia.

ID: 1048596 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree: There is also a difference in calling the western half of New Guinea. Indonesia. Although dv would not agree, because it makes his initial statement about Indonesia having more Monotremes than anyone else is a stretch on reality.

ID: 1048593 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree: >>Papua, Indonesia’s easternmost province, encompasses the western half of New Guinea and several other islands. An area of cultural and biological diversity, its rainforests and mountains are inhabited by indigenous Melanesian tribes and diverse wildlife including tree kangaroos and birds of paradise. Whale sharks swim amid the hard coral gardens of Cenderawasih Bay National Park, a dive site off the north coast.<<

ID: 1048597 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree: Fuckwitty when are you going to grow up?

ID: 1048601 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree: You need to grow up too. How stupid can you get?

ID: 1048608 Subject: re: April Chat PermeateFree You and fuckwitty are dv’s attack dogs, unfortunately for you both I don’t give a damn what you dimwits think, so farewell I have better things to do.

You weren’t trying to say it was misleading. You weren’t offering an alternative narrative. You were objecting to the answer to the question, and the basis of your objection was an erroneous notion on geography.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Thank you PWM, your humorous irony is always appreciated.

So now that everyone has viewed the link, and is feeling calmed down, spaced out, and in an incredibly good and optimistic mood, we may move on to some other important question.

For instance; is England really a country?
I don’t think so.
An ex-country, at best.

don’t you dis my mother country now!!!

As a person of Scottish heritage, my respect for your mother-region is every bit as great as that of the NZer for Australia.

that’s OK then.

:-)

Good grief man, those ‘chat’ posts you quoted above are nearly 3000 posts back. It must have taken you ages to find them, haven’t you got anything more useful to do? Can’t be bothered going back that far and will take what you say as being true, although there would be posts from others to which I would be responding, so the actual meaning might be a little different than an out of context quote might suggest. Still regardless as to what was said way back in chat in the heat of the moment. The content of this thread is what we are discussing and I have made it quite clear of my thinking over a great many posts, and which have not changed throughout, although probably now better expressed.

From your list of the above quotes, it indicates that I accepted my error regarding Papua and PNG, so I really don’t see why you are still harping on it, especially when it is not of any great importance regarding the lack of clarity of an animal list with no distribution detail than they are to be found somewhere within Indonesia and her provinces. What is required to make the list of use and less misleading, is to note where the animals actually occur, as Indonesian territory covers a large disjointed area and it would be highly confusing to any interested person to make much sense of it.

I really do think you ought to pull your head in as you are trying to build a strawman here. My first posts of both here and in chat, were just trying to clarify the false impression of an general Indonesian distribution of the montremes, which are in fact only found in the Papua region.

It’s the posts that Jack West rejects that makes Jack West the best…

It’s a form of entertainment I suppose.