Date: 9/04/2017 11:34:29
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049320
Subject: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170406152402.htm

Atmosphere detected around an Earth-like planet
Date:April 6, 2017 Source:Keele University Summary:Astronomers have detected an atmosphere on another Earth-like planet. This marks the first detection of an atmosphere around an Earth-like planet other than Earth itself, and thus is a significant step on the path towards the detection of life outside our Solar System.

Astronomers have detected an atmosphere around the super-Earth planet GJ 1132b. This marks the first detection of an atmosphere around an Earth-like planet other than Earth itself, and thus is a significant step on the path towards the detection of life outside our Solar System. The team that made the discovery, led by Keele University’s Dr John Southworth, used the 2.2 m ESO/MPG telescope in Chile to take images of the planet’s host star GJ 1132. They were able to measure the slight decrease in brightness as the planet and its atmosphere absorbed some of the starlight while transiting (passing in front of) the host star.

Dr John Southworth explains, “While this is not the detection of life on another planet, it’s an important step in the right direction: the detection of an atmosphere around the super-Earth GJ 1132b marks the first time that an atmosphere has been detected around an Earth-like planet other than Earth itself.”

Is there life out there?

Astronomers’ current strategy for finding life on another planet is to detect the chemical composition of that planet’s atmosphere, on the look-out for chemical imbalances which could be caused by living organisms. In the case of our own Earth, the presence of large amounts of oxygen is a tell-tale sign of life.

Until these findings by Dr Southworth’s team, the only previous detections of exoplanet atmospheres all involved gas giants reminiscent of a high-temperature Jupiter.

Dr Southworth says that whilst we’re still a long way from detecting life on exoplanets, this discovery is the first step:

“With this research, we have taken the first tentative step into studying the atmospheres of smaller, Earth-like, planets. We simulated a range of possible atmospheres for this planet, finding that those rich in water and/or methane would explain the observations of GJ 1132b. The planet is significantly hotter and a bit larger than Earth, so one possibility is that it is a “water world” with an atmosphere of hot steam.”

Studying atmospheres

The planet in question, GJ 1132b, orbits the very low-mass star GJ 1132 in the Southern constellation Vela, at a distance of 39 light-years from Earth. The system was studied by a team led by John Southworth (Keele University, UK) and Luigi Mancini (currently at the University of Rome Tor Vergata), and including researchers from the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy (MPIA, Germany) and the University of Cambridge.

The team used the GROND imager at the 2.2 m ESO/MPG telescope of the European Southern Observatory in Chile to observe the planet simultaneously at seven different wavelength bands spanning the optical and near-infrared. As GJ 1132b is a transiting planet, it passes directly between Earth and its host star every 1.6 days, blocking a small fraction of the star’s light. From the amount of light lost, astronomers can deduce the planet’s size — in this case only 1.4 times that of Earth.

Crucially, the new observations showed the planet to be larger in one of the seven wavelength bands. This suggests the presence of an atmosphere that is opaque to this specific light (making the planet appear larger), but transparent to all the others.

The discovery of this atmosphere is encouraging. Very low-mass stars are extremely common (much more so that Sun-like stars), and are known to host lots of small planets. But they also show a lot of magnetic activity, causing high levels of X-rays and ultraviolet light to be produced which might completely evaporate the planets’ atmospheres. However, the properties of GJ 1132b show that an atmosphere can endure this for billion of years without being destroyed. Given the huge number of very low-mass stars and planets, this could mean that the conditions suitable for life are common in the Universe.

This discovery makes GJ 1132b one of the highest-priority targets for further study by the current top facilities, such as the Hubble Space Telescope and ESO’s Very Large Telescope, as well as the James Webb Space Telescope which is slated for launch in 2018.

Story Source:

Materials provided by Keele University. Note: Content may be edited for style and length.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 11:37:28
From: furious
ID: 1049324
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

In this instance, what is the definition of “an earth like planet”?

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 11:39:12
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049325
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Journal Reference:
1.John Southworth, Luigi Mancini, Nikku Madhusudhan, Paul Mollière, Simona Ciceri, Thomas Henning. Detection of the Atmosphere of the 1.6 M ⊕ Exoplanet GJ 1132 b. The Astronomical Journal, 2017; 153 (4): 191 DOI: 10.3847/1538-3881/aa6477

Cite This Page:MLA APA Chicago

Keele University. “Atmosphere detected around an Earth-like planet.” ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 6 April 2017. <www.sciencedaily.com releases="" 2017="" 04="" 170406152402.htm="">.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 11:43:01
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049327
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • This marks the first detection of an atmosphere around an Earth-like planet other than Earth itself

In this instance, what is the definition of “an earth like planet”?

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-3881/aa6477/meta

Detection of the Atmosphere of the 1.6 M ⊕ Exoplanet GJ 1132 b

John Southworth1, Luigi Mancini2,3,4, Nikku Madhusudhan5, Paul Mollière2, Simona Ciceri6, and Thomas Henning2

Published 2017 March 31 • © 2017. The American Astronomical Society. All rights reserved. The Astronomical Journal, Volume 153, Number 4

ABSTRACT-

Detecting the atmospheres of low-mass, low-temperature exoplanets is a high-priority goal on the path to ultimately detecting biosignatures in the atmospheres of habitable exoplanets. High-precision HST observations of several super-Earths with equilibrium temperatures below 1000 K have to date all resulted in featureless transmission spectra, which have been suggested to be due to high-altitude clouds. We report the detection of an atmospheric feature in the atmosphere of a 1.6 ${M}_{\oplus }$ transiting exoplanet, GJ 1132 b, with an equilibrium temperature of ~600 K and orbiting a nearby M dwarf. We present observations of nine transits of the planet obtained simultaneously in the griz and JHK passbands. We find an average radius of 1.43 ± 0.16 ${R}_{\oplus }$ for the planet, averaged over all the passbands, and a radius of 0.255 ± 0.023 ${R}_{\odot }$ for the star, both of which are significantly greater than previously found. The planet radius can be decomposed into a “surface radius” at ~1.375 ${R}_{\oplus }$ overlaid by atmospheric features that increase the observed radius in the z and K bands. The z-band radius is 4σ higher than the continuum, suggesting a strong detection of an atmosphere. We deploy a suite of tests to verify the reliability of the transmission spectrum, which are greatly helped by the existence of repeat observations. The large z-band transit depth indicates strong opacity from H2O and/or CH4 or a hitherto-unconsidered opacity. A surface radius of 1.375 ± 0.16 ${R}_{\oplus }$ allows for a wide range of interior compositions ranging from a nearly Earth-like rocky interior, with ~70% silicate and ~30% Fe, to a substantially H2O-rich water world.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 11:43:06
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049328
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • This marks the first detection of an atmosphere around an Earth-like planet other than Earth itself

In this instance, what is the definition of “an earth like planet”?

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-3881/aa6477/meta

Detection of the Atmosphere of the 1.6 M ⊕ Exoplanet GJ 1132 b

John Southworth1, Luigi Mancini2,3,4, Nikku Madhusudhan5, Paul Mollière2, Simona Ciceri6, and Thomas Henning2

Published 2017 March 31 • © 2017. The American Astronomical Society. All rights reserved. The Astronomical Journal, Volume 153, Number 4

ABSTRACT-

Detecting the atmospheres of low-mass, low-temperature exoplanets is a high-priority goal on the path to ultimately detecting biosignatures in the atmospheres of habitable exoplanets. High-precision HST observations of several super-Earths with equilibrium temperatures below 1000 K have to date all resulted in featureless transmission spectra, which have been suggested to be due to high-altitude clouds. We report the detection of an atmospheric feature in the atmosphere of a 1.6 ${M}_{\oplus }$ transiting exoplanet, GJ 1132 b, with an equilibrium temperature of ~600 K and orbiting a nearby M dwarf. We present observations of nine transits of the planet obtained simultaneously in the griz and JHK passbands. We find an average radius of 1.43 ± 0.16 ${R}_{\oplus }$ for the planet, averaged over all the passbands, and a radius of 0.255 ± 0.023 ${R}_{\odot }$ for the star, both of which are significantly greater than previously found. The planet radius can be decomposed into a “surface radius” at ~1.375 ${R}_{\oplus }$ overlaid by atmospheric features that increase the observed radius in the z and K bands. The z-band radius is 4σ higher than the continuum, suggesting a strong detection of an atmosphere. We deploy a suite of tests to verify the reliability of the transmission spectrum, which are greatly helped by the existence of repeat observations. The large z-band transit depth indicates strong opacity from H2O and/or CH4 or a hitherto-unconsidered opacity. A surface radius of 1.375 ± 0.16 ${R}_{\oplus }$ allows for a wide range of interior compositions ranging from a nearly Earth-like rocky interior, with ~70% silicate and ~30% Fe, to a substantially H2O-rich water world.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 11:43:17
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049330
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • This marks the first detection of an atmosphere around an Earth-like planet other than Earth itself

In this instance, what is the definition of “an earth like planet”?

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-3881/aa6477/meta

Detection of the Atmosphere of the 1.6 M ⊕ Exoplanet GJ 1132 b

John Southworth1, Luigi Mancini2,3,4, Nikku Madhusudhan5, Paul Mollière2, Simona Ciceri6, and Thomas Henning2

Published 2017 March 31 • © 2017. The American Astronomical Society. All rights reserved. The Astronomical Journal, Volume 153, Number 4

ABSTRACT-

Detecting the atmospheres of low-mass, low-temperature exoplanets is a high-priority goal on the path to ultimately detecting biosignatures in the atmospheres of habitable exoplanets. High-precision HST observations of several super-Earths with equilibrium temperatures below 1000 K have to date all resulted in featureless transmission spectra, which have been suggested to be due to high-altitude clouds. We report the detection of an atmospheric feature in the atmosphere of a 1.6 ${M}_{\oplus }$ transiting exoplanet, GJ 1132 b, with an equilibrium temperature of ~600 K and orbiting a nearby M dwarf. We present observations of nine transits of the planet obtained simultaneously in the griz and JHK passbands. We find an average radius of 1.43 ± 0.16 ${R}_{\oplus }$ for the planet, averaged over all the passbands, and a radius of 0.255 ± 0.023 ${R}_{\odot }$ for the star, both of which are significantly greater than previously found. The planet radius can be decomposed into a “surface radius” at ~1.375 ${R}_{\oplus }$ overlaid by atmospheric features that increase the observed radius in the z and K bands. The z-band radius is 4σ higher than the continuum, suggesting a strong detection of an atmosphere. We deploy a suite of tests to verify the reliability of the transmission spectrum, which are greatly helped by the existence of repeat observations. The large z-band transit depth indicates strong opacity from H2O and/or CH4 or a hitherto-unconsidered opacity. A surface radius of 1.375 ± 0.16 ${R}_{\oplus }$ allows for a wide range of interior compositions ranging from a nearly Earth-like rocky interior, with ~70% silicate and ~30% Fe, to a substantially H2O-rich water world.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 11:43:22
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049331
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • This marks the first detection of an atmosphere around an Earth-like planet other than Earth itself

In this instance, what is the definition of “an earth like planet”?

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-3881/aa6477/meta

Detection of the Atmosphere of the 1.6 M ⊕ Exoplanet GJ 1132 b

John Southworth1, Luigi Mancini2,3,4, Nikku Madhusudhan5, Paul Mollière2, Simona Ciceri6, and Thomas Henning2

Published 2017 March 31 • © 2017. The American Astronomical Society. All rights reserved. The Astronomical Journal, Volume 153, Number 4

ABSTRACT-

Detecting the atmospheres of low-mass, low-temperature exoplanets is a high-priority goal on the path to ultimately detecting biosignatures in the atmospheres of habitable exoplanets. High-precision HST observations of several super-Earths with equilibrium temperatures below 1000 K have to date all resulted in featureless transmission spectra, which have been suggested to be due to high-altitude clouds. We report the detection of an atmospheric feature in the atmosphere of a 1.6 ${M}_{\oplus }$ transiting exoplanet, GJ 1132 b, with an equilibrium temperature of ~600 K and orbiting a nearby M dwarf. We present observations of nine transits of the planet obtained simultaneously in the griz and JHK passbands. We find an average radius of 1.43 ± 0.16 ${R}_{\oplus }$ for the planet, averaged over all the passbands, and a radius of 0.255 ± 0.023 ${R}_{\odot }$ for the star, both of which are significantly greater than previously found. The planet radius can be decomposed into a “surface radius” at ~1.375 ${R}_{\oplus }$ overlaid by atmospheric features that increase the observed radius in the z and K bands. The z-band radius is 4σ higher than the continuum, suggesting a strong detection of an atmosphere. We deploy a suite of tests to verify the reliability of the transmission spectrum, which are greatly helped by the existence of repeat observations. The large z-band transit depth indicates strong opacity from H2O and/or CH4 or a hitherto-unconsidered opacity. A surface radius of 1.375 ± 0.16 ${R}_{\oplus }$ allows for a wide range of interior compositions ranging from a nearly Earth-like rocky interior, with ~70% silicate and ~30% Fe, to a substantially H2O-rich water world.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 11:44:29
From: furious
ID: 1049332
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

I’m not sure that answers the question…

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 11:47:34
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049335
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-3881/aa6477/meta

I’m not sure that answers the question…

sorry about the triple post. it did for me in the sense the journal entry added in the next post shows the parameters used to define an earthlike planet for the astonmoers

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 11:49:58
From: furious
ID: 1049336
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Venus is an earth like planet and it has an atmosphere. Mars is an earth like planet and it has an atmosphere.

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Date: 9/04/2017 11:53:09
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049338
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_1132_b

Gliese 1132 b (often shortened to GJ 1132 b) is an exoplanet orbiting a red dwarf star (Gliese 1132) 39 light years (12 parsecs) from Earth, in the constellation Vela. The planet is considered uninhabitable but cool enough to possess an atmosphere. Gliese 1132 b was discovered by the MEarth-South array in Chile.

It has been called “one of the most important planets ever discovered beyond the Solar System”: Due to its relative proximity to Earth, telescopes should be able to determine the composition of its atmosphere, the speed of its winds and the color of its sunsets. This is due in part to the small diameter of its parent star (21% that of the Sun), which increases the effect on the star’s light of its transits. The planet’s diameter is approximately 20% larger than that of the Earth and its mass is estimated at 1.6 times that of Earth, implying that it has an Earth-like rocky composition. Gliese 1132 b orbits its star every 1.6 days at a distance of 1.4 million miles.

The planet receives 19 times more stellar radiation than Earth. The temperature of the top of its atmosphere is estimated at 500 °F (260 °C; 533 K). The planet is estimated to be hotter than Venus, as higher temperatures may prevail near the surface. (cf. Atmosphere of Venus, Colonization of Venus) It is possible that one side of the planet is cooler, because it is presumed to be tidally locked due to its proximity to its star; however, under most circumstances where an atmosphere is thick, it would be able to transfer heat to the far side.

In April 2017, an atmosphere was confirmed around Gliese 1132 b. It is the most Earth-like exoplanet to date that is known to have an atmosphere.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 11:57:28
From: furious
ID: 1049340
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

If having an atmosphere makes it earth like then this is redundant, because it goes without saying. If being rocky and in the goldilocks zone makes it earth like then this sentence is just incorrect…

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:01:58
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049343
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • It is the most Earth-like exoplanet to date that is known to have an atmosphere.

If having an atmosphere makes it earth like then this is redundant, because it goes without saying. If being rocky and in the goldilocks zone makes it earth like then this sentence is just incorrect…

I suppose having the atmosphere is more the unique discovery.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:07:40
From: furious
ID: 1049346
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Just trying to get an understanding of “earth like”…

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:10:35
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049351
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • I suppose having the atmosphere is more the unique discovery.

Just trying to get an understanding of “earth like”…

yeah. I can follow backwards through the research project. science daily is quite reputable ime

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:17:34
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049358
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

well according to wiki the formal and informal definition of earth planet is this:

Earth-like planet

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Earth-like planet is used as a synonym for either of the following:
Earth analog, denoting another world that is very similar to Earth
Terrestrial planet, denoting a planet that is composed of the same materials as Earth, i.e., primarily of silicate rocks or metals

Disambiguation icon This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the title Earth-like planet.
—-

They should be able workout the chemical composition of Atmosphere of the 1.6 M ⊕ Exoplanet GJ 1132 b.by anaylysing the atmosphere. When this is done then the discovery may become more interesting or less interesting.

I guess they would just use spectrometry (sp) to determine that?

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:23:02
From: tauto
ID: 1049362
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Monkey, I think Furious was having a go at the media hype and not you.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:23:46
From: furious
ID: 1049363
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

So, like Venus and Mars? Both of which have an atmosphere of some form?

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:23:50
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1049364
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • I suppose having the atmosphere is more the unique discovery.

Just trying to get an understanding of “earth like”…

I would guess, size and composition.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:24:50
From: furious
ID: 1049368
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Aye…

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:25:47
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1049370
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • Terrestrial planet, denoting a planet that is composed of the same materials as Earth, i.e., primarily of silicate rocks or metals

So, like Venus and Mars? Both of which have an atmosphere of some form?

yes, they are regarded as terrestrial.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:25:52
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049371
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

tauto said:


Monkey, I think Furious was having a go at the media hype and not you.

perhaps but going back to remove ambiguity is ok as well

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:26:06
From: dv
ID: 1049372
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • Terrestrial planet, denoting a planet that is composed of the same materials as Earth, i.e., primarily of silicate rocks or metals

So, like Venus and Mars? Both of which have an atmosphere of some form?

oooh burn

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:28:12
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1049373
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • Monkey, I think Furious was having a go at the media hype and not you.

Aye…

yeah, earthlike and terrestrial conjure up different views.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:32:45
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049374
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

http://www.space.com/28312-earth-like-planets-recipe.html

How do you make an Earth-like planet? The “test kitchen” of Earth has given us a detailed recipe, but it wasn’t clear whether other planetary systems would follow the same formula. Now, astronomers have found evidence that the recipe for Earth also applies to terrestrial exoplanets orbiting distant stars.

Credit: David A. Aguilar (CfA)

Earth is a unique, life-supporting world, but new research shows that the “recipe” for Earth might also apply to terrestrial exoplanets orbiting distant stars.

The new research suggests that other rocky, Earth-like planets follow the same basic mix of elements and likely formed the same way Earth did. These Earth-like planets include the recently discovered Kepler-93b, which is about 300 light-years from Earth.

“Our solar system is not as unique as we might have thought,” Courtney Dressing, lead author of the new study and a researcher at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, said in a statement. “It looks like rocky exoplanets use the same basic ingredients.”

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:38:57
From: furious
ID: 1049375
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Long story short, this is not correct…

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:39:55
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049376
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Kepler-93b, which is about 300 light-years from Earth. is this far away from us..where as GJ 1132b, orbits the very low-mass star GJ 1132 in the Southern constellation Vela, at a distance of 39 light-years from Earth

this aspect seems interesting

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:42:58
From: tauto
ID: 1049377
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

dv said:


furious said:
  • Terrestrial planet, denoting a planet that is composed of the same materials as Earth, i.e., primarily of silicate rocks or metals

So, like Venus and Mars? Both of which have an atmosphere of some form?

oooh burn

—-

And even if we discover a planet we could live on, how the fuck could we travel there?

5..10..500 light years away, not possible and very improbable.

Better we explore our own solar system for the time being.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:45:29
From: dv
ID: 1049379
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

From what I can determine, this is the first time an atmosphere has been found on a terrestrial exoplanet. Prior to this, all exoplanets with confirmed atmospheres have been gas giants or ice giants (ie more like Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus).

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:46:57
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1049381
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

tauto said:


dv said:

furious said:
  • Terrestrial planet, denoting a planet that is composed of the same materials as Earth, i.e., primarily of silicate rocks or metals

So, like Venus and Mars? Both of which have an atmosphere of some form?

oooh burn

—-

And even if we discover a planet we could live on, how the fuck could we travel there?

5..10..500 light years away, not possible and very improbable.

Better we explore our own solar system for the time being.

I suppose they suggest now is the time to examine the maximum amount of observable universe to best understand the history of the universe and the future of the universe

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:48:52
From: furious
ID: 1049383
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Not the same thing…

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 12:50:13
From: dv
ID: 1049384
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

furious said:

  • From what I can determine, this is the first time an atmosphere has been found on a terrestrial exoplanet.

  • This marks the first detection of an atmosphere around an Earth-like planet other than Earth itself

Not the same thing…

Yes. They should have reworded, slightly.

I mean it’s still cool.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/04/2017 18:23:09
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1049485
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

I’m still waiting for the confirmation (or rejection) of the tentative planets found orbiting Alpha Centauri.

I’m also still waiting for any planet orbiting at the same orbital radius from its star as Earth is from the Sun.

GJ 1132 has spectral type M 3.5, which makes it another red dwarf, and probably a flare star.

> We simulated a range of possible atmospheres for this planet, finding that those rich in water and/or methane would explain the observations of GJ 1132b

With a spectral type of M 3.5, the parent star is going to have a lot of strong absorption bands in the spectrum. M stars are normally too
hot to have water and methane absorption bands in their spectrum. L stars have water absorption bands. Also some late M stars. It’s difficult for me to tell because the water absorption band is at about 9400 angstroms, and most star spectra don’t go into the IR further than 9200 angstroms.

> The large z-band transit depth indicates strong opacity from H2O and/or CH4 or a hitherto-unconsidered opacity.

What’s “z-band” in angstroms? 9000 angstroms, which puts it in the right ballpark.

Radius of planet 1.43 Earths. That makes it not earth-like but super-earth. The radius of a super-earth is between 1.25 and 2 Earth radii.

1.43 – 1.375 Earth radii translates to an atmosphere thickness of 350 km, bloody thick, with no clouds. That would give a surface pressure of … the atmosphere of Venus has a height of 250 km and a surface pressure of 93 bar, so it would be worse than that.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2017 06:45:31
From: Cymek
ID: 1050077
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Are their any elements detectable in an exoplanet’s atmosphere that could be an indication of a technological civilisation.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2017 06:47:50
From: Cymek
ID: 1050079
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Are there any elements detectable in an exoplanet’s atmosphere that could be an indication of a technological civilisation.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/04/2017 07:56:34
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1050108
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Cymek said:


Are there any elements detectable in an exoplanet’s atmosphere that could be an indication of a technological civilisation.

I’m not even sure there are any such elements even detectable in Earth’s atmosphere.

Let’s change that to molecules or even to compounds. Even there, it’s really difficult to distinguish between naturally generated and technologically generated.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/04/2017 02:08:07
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1050350
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

mollwollfumble said:


Cymek said:

Are there any elements detectable in an exoplanet’s atmosphere that could be an indication of a technological civilisation.

I’m not even sure there are any such elements even detectable in Earth’s atmosphere.

Let’s change that to molecules or even to compounds. Even there, it’s really difficult to distinguish between naturally generated and technologically generated.

The presence of an ozone hole would probably be the easiest way to detect a technologically advanced civilization on an exoplanet. Even there, CFCs can be produced naturally.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2017 12:24:55
From: KJW
ID: 1052091
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

I yawn whenever I hear the word “exoplanet”. Sorry, but these thing just don’t grab my interest. Maybe my interest would increase if they found dioxygen in the atmosphere.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2017 12:28:47
From: dv
ID: 1052102
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


I yawn whenever I hear the word “exoplanet”. Sorry, but these thing just don’t grab my interest. Maybe my interest would increase if they found dioxygen in the atmosphere.

Well I think it is cool that we suddenly have data on hundreds of planets…

Reply Quote

Date: 14/04/2017 12:38:57
From: KJW
ID: 1052135
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

dv said:


KJW said:

I yawn whenever I hear the word “exoplanet”. Sorry, but these thing just don’t grab my interest. Maybe my interest would increase if they found dioxygen in the atmosphere.

Well I think it is cool that we suddenly have data on hundreds of planets…

According to Wikipedia, more than 3600 exoplanets have been found since they were first discovered. The discovery of another one is hardly exciting.

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Date: 14/04/2017 12:40:12
From: dv
ID: 1052138
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


dv said:

KJW said:

I yawn whenever I hear the word “exoplanet”. Sorry, but these thing just don’t grab my interest. Maybe my interest would increase if they found dioxygen in the atmosphere.

Well I think it is cool that we suddenly have data on hundreds of planets…

According to Wikipedia, more than 3600 exoplanets have been found since they were first discovered. The discovery of another one is hardly exciting.

Fair

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Date: 14/04/2017 12:40:23
From: furious
ID: 1052139
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

I’ve been saying that for years…

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Date: 14/04/2017 22:08:52
From: KJW
ID: 1052272
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


Maybe my interest would increase if they found dioxygen in the atmosphere.

It would also increase if they found elemental fluorine in the atmosphere. That wouldn’t actually be an indication of life, just an awesome thing to have as the atmosphere of a planet.

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Date: 14/04/2017 22:14:52
From: Michael V
ID: 1052283
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


KJW said:

Maybe my interest would increase if they found dioxygen in the atmosphere.

It would also increase if they found elemental fluorine in the atmosphere. That wouldn’t actually be an indication of life, just an awesome thing to have as the atmosphere of a planet.

Hahahahahaha!

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Date: 14/04/2017 22:24:51
From: KJW
ID: 1052291
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Michael V said:


KJW said:

KJW said:

Maybe my interest would increase if they found dioxygen in the atmosphere.

It would also increase if they found elemental fluorine in the atmosphere. That wouldn’t actually be an indication of life, just an awesome thing to have as the atmosphere of a planet.

Hahahahahaha!

Seriously, people extol the presence of water on a planet or moon or whatever, but I imagine water to be quite common throughout the rockier parts of the universe, and not an indication of life at all. By contrast, dioxygen would almost surely be an indication of life.

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Date: 22/04/2017 12:41:02
From: KJW
ID: 1055699
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


It would also increase if they found elemental fluorine in the atmosphere. That wouldn’t actually be an indication of life, just an awesome thing to have as the atmosphere of a planet.

For one thing, it would require the surface of the planet to be something other than rock because rock burns in fluorine. Some time ago, I saw a guy on YouTube demonstrating the flammability of a brick in fluorine.

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Date: 22/04/2017 13:09:19
From: KJW
ID: 1055711
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


It would also increase if they found elemental fluorine in the atmosphere. That wouldn’t actually be an indication of life, just an awesome thing to have as the atmosphere of a planet.

Another thing would be how elemental fluorine could be produced. Presumably, it wouldn’t be elemental fluorine in the interstellar rubble, so it would have to be produced from the reduced state. Nearly a hundred years after Henri Moissan first produced fluorine by electrolysis, Karl Christe devised a chemical method of producing fluorine, noting that even Moissan could have come up with this method.

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Date: 22/04/2017 13:10:03
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1055713
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


I yawn whenever I hear the word “exoplanet”. Sorry, but these thing just don’t grab my interest. Maybe my interest would increase if they found dioxygen in the atmosphere.

The atmosphere of Enceladus is dominated by O2 molecules.

That occurs because it outgases water. Radiation breaks the water into oxygen and hydrogen molecules and the hydrogen escapes, leaving an atmosphere of oxygen. Not water vapour because that refreezes and settles out on the surface.

An oxygen atmosphere is a sign of lack of life, not a sign of life.

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Date: 22/04/2017 13:11:13
From: KJW
ID: 1055714
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

mollwollfumble said:


An oxygen atmosphere is a sign of lack of life, not a sign of life.

Not here it isn’t.

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Date: 22/04/2017 13:13:33
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1055717
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


KJW said:

It would also increase if they found elemental fluorine in the atmosphere. That wouldn’t actually be an indication of life, just an awesome thing to have as the atmosphere of a planet.

Another thing would be how elemental fluorine could be produced. Presumably, it wouldn’t be elemental fluorine in the interstellar rubble, so it would have to be produced from the reduced state. Nearly a hundred years after Henri Moissan first produced fluorine by electrolysis, Karl Christe devised a chemical method of producing fluorine, noting that even Moissan could have come up with this method.

OK. Yes, interesting. Is flourine more or less common than chlorine in the universe?

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Date: 22/04/2017 13:13:37
From: KJW
ID: 1055718
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

mollwollfumble said:


The atmosphere of Enceladus is dominated by O2 molecules.

That occurs because it outgases water. Radiation breaks the water into oxygen and hydrogen molecules and the hydrogen escapes, leaving an atmosphere of oxygen. Not water vapour because that refreezes and settles out on the surface.

But I do note the possibility of O~2~ being produced by means other than photosynthesis.

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Date: 22/04/2017 13:15:06
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1055721
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


mollwollfumble said:

An oxygen atmosphere is a sign of lack of life, not a sign of life.

Not here it isn’t.

Even here. Without anaerobes, for whom oxygen molecules are deadly poison, we wouldn’t have any life on Earth.

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Date: 22/04/2017 13:27:25
From: KJW
ID: 1055724
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

mollwollfumble said:


Is flourine more or less common than chlorine in the universe?

According to Wikipedia, fluorine is more abundant than chlorine in the earth’s crust, but less abundant in the solar system. However, both abundances are comparable in terms of order of magnitude.

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Date: 22/04/2017 13:30:26
From: KJW
ID: 1055725
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

mollwollfumble said:


KJW said:

mollwollfumble said:

An oxygen atmosphere is a sign of lack of life, not a sign of life.

Not here it isn’t.

Even here. Without anaerobes, for whom oxygen molecules are deadly poison, we wouldn’t have any life on Earth.

But there is oxygen in earth’s atmosphere. If someone far away were to conclude that there is no life here because there is oxygen in our atmosphere, they’d be wrong.

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Date: 22/04/2017 13:43:04
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1055729
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


mollwollfumble said:

KJW said:

Not here it isn’t.

Even here. Without anaerobes, for whom oxygen molecules are deadly poison, we wouldn’t have any life on Earth.

But there is oxygen in earth’s atmosphere. If someone far away were to conclude that there is no life here because there is oxygen in our atmosphere, they’d be wrong.

Quite so.

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Date: 22/04/2017 14:00:38
From: dv
ID: 1055737
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

I would summarise thusly:

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Date: 22/04/2017 22:06:16
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1055853
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


dv said:

KJW said:

I yawn whenever I hear the word “exoplanet”. Sorry, but these thing just don’t grab my interest. Maybe my interest would increase if they found dioxygen in the atmosphere.

Well I think it is cool that we suddenly have data on hundreds of planets…

According to Wikipedia, more than 3600 exoplanets have been found since they were first discovered. The discovery of another one is hardly exciting.

May be not but perhaps the closeness in proximity and by comparison could be.


Kepler-93b, which is about 300 light-years from Earth. is this far away from us..where as GJ 1132b, orbits the very low-mass star GJ 1132 in the Southern constellation Vela, at a distance of 39 light-years from Earth

this aspect seems interesting to me at least “

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Date: 23/04/2017 13:32:30
From: KJW
ID: 1056164
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

monkey skipper said:


KJW said:

According to Wikipedia, more than 3600 exoplanets have been found since they were first discovered. The discovery of another one is hardly exciting.

May be not but perhaps the closeness in proximity and by comparison could be.


Kepler-93b, which is about 300 light-years from Earth. is this far away from us..where as GJ 1132b, orbits the very low-mass star GJ 1132 in the Southern constellation Vela, at a distance of 39 light-years from Earth

this aspect seems interesting to me at least “

39 light-years? Nope… still not excited. But just to put this into perspective, I found this on the internet about what is within 20 light-years, half the distance:

http://www.solstation.com/stars/s20ly.htm said:


Within 20 ly of Sol, astronomers may have detected planets in the Solar System and around 12 other stars (Alpha Centauri B, 82 Eridani, Epsilon Eridani, Gliese 876 / Ross 780, CD-44 11909 / Gl 682, CD-46 11540 / Gl 674, CD-49 13515 / Gl 832, Gl 229, Groombridge 34 A, Kapteyn’s Star229, Lalande 21185, Tau Ceti, and Wolf 1055 B (VB10, or Van Biesbroeck’s Star), as of September 2014. Other than Sol itself, however, only around perhaps 17 stars out of 14 star systems (including such G stars as Alpha Centauri A) may possibly be capable of hosting Earth-type planets in stable orbits within their respective circumstellar habitable zones (CHZs). Within a CHZ orbit, liquid water may be possible on a planetary surface without tidal locking and orbital disruption from another celestial object.

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Date: 23/04/2017 15:09:54
From: dv
ID: 1056175
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

You’re a tough man to please, KJW

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Date: 23/04/2017 19:26:24
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1056181
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


39 light-years? Nope… still not excited. But just to put this into perspective, I found this on the internet about what is within 20 light-years, half the distance:


I thought you were going to link to a that I’d contributed significantly to, there. But no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nearest_stars_and_brown_dwarfs

This list contains all known stars and brown dwarfs at a distance of up to 5 parsecs (16.3 light-years) from the Solar System.

Distance (LY)
4.2, Proxima Centauri has one known planet.
4.4, α Centauri B has two suspected planets.
6.6, Luhman 16 has one suspected planet.
8.3, Lalande 21185 has one suspected planet.
10.5, Epsilon Eridani has at least one planet.
11.6, Groombridge 34 A has one planet.
11.8, Epsilon Indi A one suspected planet
11.9, Tau Ceti possibly five planets
12.4, Luyten’s Star two known planets.
12.5, Teegarden’s star possible planetary system.
12.8, Kapteyn’s Star has two known planets.
13.8, Wolf 1061 (Gliese 628) potentially three planets, second out in habitable zone.
14.8, Gliese 687 has one known planet.
14.8, Gliese 674 has one known planet.
15.3, Ross 780 (Gliese 876) has four known planets.
16.1, Gliese 832 has two known planets.

None of these stars is as bright as the Sun. α Centauri B is the only one that comes close and the planets there are only tentative.
Also missing is a planet at 1 AU from its star.

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Date: 23/04/2017 19:53:05
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1056182
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

dv said:


You’re a tough man to please, KJW

Meh.

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Date: 23/04/2017 20:20:09
From: KJW
ID: 1056186
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

dv said:


You’re a tough man to please, KJW

It would seem that I need to demonstrate a point.

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Date: 23/04/2017 20:40:57
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1056188
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

KJW said:


dv said:

You’re a tough man to please, KJW

It would seem that I need to demonstrate a point.

I agree with you.

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Date: 23/04/2017 20:44:29
From: KJW
ID: 1056190
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

mollwollfumble said:


KJW said:

dv said:

You’re a tough man to please, KJW

It would seem that I need to demonstrate a point.

I agree with you.

Thank you.

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Date: 23/04/2017 20:49:14
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1056191
Subject: re: Earthlike planetary discovery with an atmosphere

Like most thread subjects get discussed and disputed and research done and information added. Thanks for adding points and comments.

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