It is getting to that time of year. I like my fireplace for the ambience but I was thinking about ways to make it more efficient. From what I have read on the net there is not much you can do ie firebacks etc that is effective.

So I was wondering, does anyone here have experience of putting a cast iron pot belly or similar into an existing fireplace?

The best outcome I can think of is similar heat but less wood? Or even less heat but less wood.

AwesomeO said:

It is getting to that time of year. I like my fireplace for the ambience but I was thinking about ways to make it more efficient. From what I have read on the net there is not much you can do ie firebacks etc that is effective.

So I was wondering, does anyone here have experience of putting a cast iron pot belly or similar into an existing fireplace?

The best outcome I can think of is similar heat but less wood? Or even less heat but less wood.

Not a pot belly, but we have put woodheaters into fireplaces. Some of them are designed to be used that way. I’ll see what I can find. We have ours in the kitchen set inside the fireplace that used to have an upright stove in there. But there are others designed to be put into a normal, lower fireplace. They just run the flue up inside the chimney.

You can see it here:

A wood-burning heater installed in an existing fireplace seems to be a popular option in the UK, if you can go by what’s seen in ‘Escape to the Country’.

I expect that they are seen as more efficient, less heavy on the fuel, safer, and easier to manage than the exisiting open fire.

buffy said:

You can see it here:

Cheers Buffy, my fireplace is not huge like that cavity though.

We have had Heatcharm. Ours have been freestanding, placed inside kitchen fireplaces. But I understand their built in ones are as good. Except you can’t keep a pot of soup or stew going on top of them like you can with the freestanders.

http://gippslandfireplaces.com.au/heatcharm.php

mcgoon said:

A wood-burning heater installed in an existing fireplace seems to be a popular option in the UK, if you can go by what’s seen in ‘Escape to the Country’.

I expect that they are seen as more efficient, less heavy on the fuel, safer, and easier to manage than the exisiting open fire.

Yes they are all good outcomes. I must admit, despite having a fire mesh I am a little paranoid about leaving it overnight or even percolating during the day if I am not close. Other people I know just leave them idling, they are happy to go out and don’t seem to worry at all.

We have a Norseman woodburner, with the glass door. We can confidently chuck a log on, and then go to bed.

Fireplace here is 2 truck wheel hubs welded together.

Awesome heat.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Fireplace here is 2 truck wheel hubs welded together.

Awesome heat.

Oh yes, that reminds me. Try a plough disc in the back of the fireplace as a heat reflector. We used that years ago.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Fireplace here is 2 truck wheel hubs welded together.

Awesome heat.

In Tassie I saw a lot of heaters made from old drums.

buffy said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Fireplace here is 2 truck wheel hubs welded together.

Awesome heat.

Oh yes, that reminds me. Try a plough disc in the back of the fireplace as a heat reflector. We used that years ago.

It is very good. The discs also make the best barbeques too.

What’s wrong with the fireplace as is?

Peak Warming Man said:

What’s wrong with the fireplace as is?

An open fire place burns wood far less efficiently to the fire boxes, there is a greater fire risk from the embers and sparks as well as the smoke fumes in the house while lighting the fire , just to name a few reasons.

Peak Warming Man said:

What’s wrong with the fireplace as is?

Main problems;
Draw in cold draughts
Draw well enough not to smoke and thus most of the heat goes up the chimney just the same
generally burn wood too fast.

Peak Warming Man said:

What’s wrong with the fireplace as is?

Nothing, and it is mostly for ambience when I am in the mood for balloons of brandy.

When I was a little ‘un couple of houses ago, we had a big fireplace in it. I thought up how to make the thing pump out more hot air into the room and this is what I came up with …

Of course it’s either been subsequently invented or more likely before I thought it up. If you really want it to pump out some air, fit small fan to blow air through the entry into the bottom of the tubes. Like a log inlet manifold for an engine, etc.

Spiny Norman said:

When I was a little ‘un couple of houses ago, we had a big fireplace in it. I thought up how to make the thing pump out more hot air into the room and this is what I came up with …

Of course it’s either been subsequently invented or more likely before I thought it up. If you really want it to pump out some air, fit small fan to blow air through the entry into the bottom of the tubes. Like a log inlet manifold for an engine, etc.

You weren’t the first to think aboutit or attempt to make it. I actualy tried to find a builder who would help me have this run in a concrete slab via a solution, forty years ago. When I had already seen units designed to funnel hot air back into the room.

Spiny Norman said:

When I was a little ‘un couple of houses ago, we had a big fireplace in it. I thought up how to make the thing pump out more hot air into the room and this is what I came up with …

Of course it’s either been subsequently invented or more likely before I thought it up. If you really want it to pump out some air, fit small fan to blow air through the entry into the bottom of the tubes. Like a log inlet manifold for an engine, etc.

You sure it has been invented?

dv said:

Spiny Norman said:

When I was a little ‘un couple of houses ago, we had a big fireplace in it. I thought up how to make the thing pump out more hot air into the room and this is what I came up with …

Of course it’s either been subsequently invented or more likely before I thought it up. If you really want it to pump out some air, fit small fan to blow air through the entry into the bottom of the tubes. Like a log inlet manifold for an engine, etc.

You sure it has been invented?

it has

The Australian Medical Association opposes generic default prescribing.

“Independent clinical decision making and prescribing is something that the AMA holds very dear and very true to our hearts,” AMA vice president Tony Bartone told 7.30.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-01/budget-to-push-generic-medicines-to-save-dollars/8486736

Fuck off.

dv said:

Spiny Norman said:

When I was a little ‘un couple of houses ago, we had a big fireplace in it. I thought up how to make the thing pump out more hot air into the room and this is what I came up with …

Of course it’s either been subsequently invented or more likely before I thought it up. If you really want it to pump out some air, fit small fan to blow air through the entry into the bottom of the tubes. Like a log inlet manifold for an engine, etc.

You sure it has been invented?

Guess so.

you really can’t beat a wood heater in the room. ones in fireplaces, unless you block the chimney, will just waste heat. even blocking the chimney you don’t get full benefit.

I’ve never seen anything like it. Did it work, Bill? How would/did you prevent the tubes from collapsing under the weight of the timber when hot?

Rule 303 said:

I’ve never seen anything like it. Did it work, Bill? How would/did you prevent the tubes from collapsing under the weight of the timber when hot?

the wood of the fire wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the beams pipes.

ChrispenEvan said:

you really can’t beat a wood heater in the room. ones in fireplaces, unless you block the chimney, will just waste heat. even blocking the chimney you don’t get full benefit.

They’re all dead Jim, dead.

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I’ve never seen anything like it. Did it work, Bill? How would/did you prevent the tubes from collapsing under the weight of the timber when hot?

the wood of the fire wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the beams pipes.

What about the wings?

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I’ve never seen anything like it. Did it work, Bill? How would/did you prevent the tubes from collapsing under the weight of the timber when hot?

the wood of the fire wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the beams pipes.

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I’ve never seen anything like it. Did it work, Bill? How would/did you prevent the tubes from collapsing under the weight of the timber when hot?

the wood of the fire wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the beams pipes.

This. Plain convection would guarantee it’d work but I’m not sure how well. A small fan, like a regular computer fan, would definitely help a lot.

Rule 303 said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I’ve never seen anything like it. Did it work, Bill? How would/did you prevent the tubes from collapsing under the weight of the timber when hot?

the wood of the fire wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the beams pipes.

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

They’d weaken, but you really have to get them red-hot to make the metal get into the plastic deformation area. A wood fire isn’t going to get anywhere near hot enough for that.

I like that device, I guess you could even have it so the inlets draw in cold air frm underneath the house. One question though, the top pipes have a smaller opening, I guess to increase the velocity of the air, but would that work and is it neccesary?

Rule 303 said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I’ve never seen anything like it. Did it work, Bill? How would/did you prevent the tubes from collapsing under the weight of the timber when hot?

the wood of the fire wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the beams pipes.

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

dunno how hot a wood fire gets but paper burns at Fahrenheit 451.

ChrispenEvan said:

you really can’t beat a wood heater in the room. ones in fireplaces, unless you block the chimney, will just waste heat. even blocking the chimney you don’t get full benefit.

U sound like sumbody els

But we got the point.

Spiny Norman said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I’ve never seen anything like it. Did it work, Bill? How would/did you prevent the tubes from collapsing under the weight of the timber when hot?

the wood of the fire wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the beams pipes.

This. Plain convection would guarantee it’d work but I’m not sure how well. A small fan, like a regular computer fan, would definitely help a lot.

Yes. With air, you’d need a fan assist. With water or other solution, you’d only need convection.

I’ve seen a lot of steel grates and bars bent to buggery at the bottom of fireplaces, and structural steel (for buildings) has to be concealed and coated to protect it against fire. Just saying.

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

ChrispenEvan said:

the wood of the fire wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the beams pipes.

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

dunno how hot a wood fire gets but paper burns at Fahrenheit 451.

You guys ever looked at how a combustion stove heats water?

Rule 303 said:

I’ve seen a lot of steel grates and bars bent to buggery at the bottom of fireplaces, and structural steel (for buildings) has to be concealed and coated to protect it against fire. Just saying.

In direct contact with a mini-blast furnace, what would you expect?

You could do various simulations and see the effects of different configurations, I think, based on nothing more than gut feel, if the pipes were blown up a bit in the middle and had some radiator type surfacing to increase surface area it would increase efficiency and have the restricted pipe opening at the inlet end. My thinking being, air drawn in would move faster, meet the expanded bit and slow down so increasing the time it spends in the hottest part of the fire.

roughbarked said:

You guys ever looked at how a combustion stove heats water?

I built a wood-fired spa heater that could heat 1,500L of water at the rate of 1° per 12 minutes in half a 44Gal drum. Does that count?

:-)

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

dunno how hot a wood fire gets but paper burns at Fahrenheit 451.

You guys ever looked at how a combustion stove heats water?

no, never. how do they stop the water putting the fire out?

AwesomeO said:

You could do various simulations and see the effects of different configurations, I think, based on nothing more than gut feel, if the pipes were blown up a bit in the middle and had some radiator type surfacing to increase surface area it would increase efficiency and have the restricted pipe opening at the inlet end. My thinking being, air drawn in would move faster, meet the expanded bit and slow down so increasing the time it spends in the hottest part of the fire.

Can I for the first time in our relationship, accuse you af being a wanker?

Or to put it another way, restricted at the inlet end might increase volume moving through and a general principle that you don’t want to restrict the “exhaust” end.

Rule 303 said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I’ve never seen anything like it. Did it work, Bill? How would/did you prevent the tubes from collapsing under the weight of the timber when hot?

the wood of the fire wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the beams pipes.

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

And where are the wings?

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

You could do various simulations and see the effects of different configurations, I think, based on nothing more than gut feel, if the pipes were blown up a bit in the middle and had some radiator type surfacing to increase surface area it would increase efficiency and have the restricted pipe opening at the inlet end. My thinking being, air drawn in would move faster, meet the expanded bit and slow down so increasing the time it spends in the hottest part of the fire.

Can I for the first time in our relationship, accuse you af being a wanker?

Fill your boots, I care not.

Rule 303 said:

roughbarked said:

You guys ever looked at how a combustion stove heats water?

I built a wood-fired spa heater that could heat 1,500L of water at the rate of 1° per 12 minutes in half a 44Gal drum. Does that count?

:-)

It all does. Knowledge of how things work is very useful.

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

And where are the wings?

Is this a Red Bull joke?

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

dunno how hot a wood fire gets but paper burns at Fahrenheit 451.

You guys ever looked at how a combustion stove heats water?

no, never. how do they stop the water putting the fire out?

You being silly, just doesn’t quite work.

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

You could do various simulations and see the effects of different configurations, I think, based on nothing more than gut feel, if the pipes were blown up a bit in the middle and had some radiator type surfacing to increase surface area it would increase efficiency and have the restricted pipe opening at the inlet end. My thinking being, air drawn in would move faster, meet the expanded bit and slow down so increasing the time it spends in the hottest part of the fire.

Can I for the first time in our relationship, accuse you af being a wanker?

Fill your boots, I care not.

Don’t get me wrong. You were pumping air.

Rule 303 said:

I’ve seen a lot of steel grates and bars bent to buggery at the bottom of fireplaces, and structural steel (for buildings) has to be concealed and coated to protect it against fire. Just saying.

M’kay, that’s surprising.

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

And where are the wings?

Is this a Red Bull joke?

No

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

Rule 303 said:

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

And where are the wings?

Is this a Red Bull joke?

He can be a wild card.

roughbarked said:

Don’t get me wrong. You were pumping air.

You’d be the expert.

Spiny Norman said:

Rule 303 said:

I’ve seen a lot of steel grates and bars bent to buggery at the bottom of fireplaces, and structural steel (for buildings) has to be concealed and coated to protect it against fire. Just saying.

M’kay, that’s surprising.

Not from those whom I’ve seen attempting to manage fire.

Google is your friend.

Plenty more where that’s from:

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

Don’t get me wrong. You were pumping air.

You’d be the expurt.

The drip under pressure?

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

dunno how hot a wood fire gets but paper burns at Fahrenheit 451.

that is one of your better ones

Rule 303 said:

Google is your friend.

Plenty more where that’s from:

Ta for that. Considering that the grate would only be carrying 10 – 20 kg of wood, max, you should be able to get a good 600° without a problem.

Is wrought iron better for that purpose?

Steel or cast iron can easily withstand 400 degrees without deforming.
Even a thin billy will happily sit directly in a fire over and over for years.

i would say rather than straight out temperature it is the heat-cooling cycle and the abrasions that result in fire grates wearing.

Spiny Norman said:

Rule 303 said:

I’ve seen a lot of steel grates and bars bent to buggery at the bottom of fireplaces, and structural steel (for buildings) has to be concealed and coated to protect it against fire. Just saying.

M’kay, that’s surprising.

If you compare the bushfire performance of structural materials, for example, timber will take much higher temperatures for much longer periods than steel.

Peak Warming Man said:

Steel or cast iron can easily withstand 400 degrees without deforming.
Even a thin billy will happily sit directly in a fire over and over for years.

a billy has water in it though.

ChrispenEvan said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Steel or cast iron can easily withstand 400 degrees without deforming.
Even a thin billy will happily sit directly in a fire over and over for years.

a billy has water in it though.

the electric kettle, even with water in it, does not fare well over a fire

Peak Warming Man said:

Steel or cast iron can easily withstand 400 degrees without deforming.
Even a thin billy will happily sit directly in a fire over and over for years.

The water cools the metal. You could probably hold a blowtorch on the side and until the water boils away from that spot, it won’t melt.

Spiny Norman said:

Rule 303 said:

Google is your friend.

Plenty more where that’s from:

Ta for that. Considering that the grate would only be carrying 10 – 20 kg of wood, max, you should be able to get a good 600° without a problem.

It does also depend upon what wood you are burning where.
I did make the mistake of giving my wife Yarran to burn in our combustion stove. She had no comprehension of the logistics involved.
The stove has been seriously compromised ever since and hence decomissioned pending replacement unless solar is a better solution.

Spiny Norman said:

Rule 303 said:

Google is your friend.

Plenty more where that’s from:

Ta for that. Considering that the grate would only be carrying 10 – 20 kg of wood, max, you should be able to get a good 600° without a problem.

Are you able to ignore the effects of repeated heating and cooling cycles?

you can heat water in a paper bag!

dv said:

Is wrought iron better for that purpose?

No

Nearly all wood heaters and stoves are made from cast steel.

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Steel or cast iron can easily withstand 400 degrees without deforming.
Even a thin billy will happily sit directly in a fire over and over for years.

a billy has water in it though.

the electric kettle, even with water in it, does not fare well over a fire

It really burns the insulation off the cable

Rule 303 said:

Spiny Norman said:

Rule 303 said:

Google is your friend.

Plenty more where that’s from:

Ta for that. Considering that the grate would only be carrying 10 – 20 kg of wood, max, you should be able to get a good 600° without a problem.

Are you able to ignore the effects of repeated heating and cooling cycles?

Yeah …. for wood fires.

ChrispenEvan said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Steel or cast iron can easily withstand 400 degrees without deforming.
Even a thin billy will happily sit directly in a fire over and over for years.

a billy has water in it though.

and while the billy boils you can duff a jumbuck or two.

ChrispenEvan said:

you can heat water in a paper bag!

Shut up you.. we are talking about boiler plate steel here.

dv said:

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

a billy has water in it though.

the electric kettle, even with water in it, does not fare well over a fire

It really burns the insulation off the cable

and yet, if I stick in the hands of a small child.. I’m the criminal..

Peak Warming Man said:

Nearly all wood heaters and stoves are made from cast steel.

sort of correct.

This thing is an experiment waiting to happen. Anyone got a fireplace Bill can try this out in?

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Steel or cast iron can easily withstand 400 degrees without deforming.
Even a thin billy will happily sit directly in a fire over and over for years.

a billy has water in it though.

and while the billy boils you can duff a jumbuck or two.

Though they may kick their heels.

Arts said:

dv said:

Arts said:

the electric kettle, even with water in it, does not fare well over a fire

It really burns the insulation off the cable

and yet, if I stick in the hands of a small child.. I’m the criminal..

It’s political correctness gone mad

Hey if Billie Holiday had married George Frederick Boyle, her name would have been Eleanora Boyle.

dv said:

Hey if Billie Holiday had married George Frederick Boyle, her name would have been Eleanora Boyle.

as irrelevant as chuckinmg this on your fire.. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-05/wa-researchers-work-to-grow-future-of-hemp-industry/8240420

way to kill the conversation, DV

Arts said:

way to kill the conversation, DV

Thanks!

Arts said:

way to kill the conversation, DV

It was going off the boil anyway..

Arts said:

way to kill the conversation, DV

DVKTFC.

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

way to kill the conversation, DV

It was going off the boil anyway..

but before we go, dv the master of knowing, tell me what the facts are about burning yarran?

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

way to kill the conversation, DV

It was going off the boil anyway..

but before we go, dv the master of knowing, tell me what the facts are about burning yarran?

I’m an educated man, but I’m afraid I can’t speak intelligently about the combustion of Acacias.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

It was going off the boil anyway..

but before we go, dv the master of knowing, tell me what the facts are about burning yarran?

Indeed something worth reading up on if you are talking about the strength of steel.

I’m an educated man, but I’m afraid I can’t speak intelligently about the combustion of Acacias.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

but before we go, dv the master of knowing, tell me what the facts are about burning yarran?

Indeed something worth reading up on if you are talking about the strength of steel.

I’m an educated man, but I’m afraid I can’t speak intelligently about the combustion of Acacias.

But I’m not talking about the strength of steel.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

but before we go, dv the master of knowing, tell me what the facts are about burning yarran?

I’m an educated man, but I’m afraid I can’t speak intelligently about the combustion of Acacias.

Indeed something worth reading up on if you are talking about the strength of steel.

It was worth editing because there is a tad of irony in there.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Indeed something worth reading up on if you are talking about the strength of steel.

I’m an educated man, but I’m afraid I can’t speak intelligently about the combustion of Acacias.

But I’m not talking about the strength of steel.

You are if you are talking acacia.

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

ChrispenEvan said:

the wood of the fire wouldn’t get hot enough to melt the beams pipes.

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

dunno how hot a wood fire gets but paper burns at Fahrenheit 451.

Another book I must re-read.

kii said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

dunno how hot a wood fire gets but paper burns at Fahrenheit 451.

Another book I must re-read.

Seriously the importance has long passed.

kii said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Rule 303 said:

I thought the structural properties of most steels disappeared down the toilet at about 400°C?

dunno how hot a wood fire gets but paper burns at Fahrenheit 451.

Another book I must re-read.

this is the good that i do with my witty replies.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

But I’m not talking about the strength of steel.

You are if you are talking acacia.

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

But I’m not talking about the strength of steel.

You are if you are talking acacia.

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

don’t worry DV if we get lost out bush i have campcraft skills to keep us alive. well, me at least.

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

You are if you are talking acacia.

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

don’t worry DV if we get lost out bush i have campcraft skills to keep us alive. well, me at least.

And I’ll live on through you, literally

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

You are if you are talking acacia.

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

don’t worry DV if we get lost out bush i have campcraft skills to keep us alive. well, me at least.

and also a supply of flesh for a time

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

But I’m not talking about the strength of steel.

You are if you are talking acacia.

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

OK. we have simply found a weak point in your armour that you wouldn’t deserve if you never went camping in the wilderness.

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

You are if you are talking acacia.

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

don’t worry DV if we get lost out bush i have campcraft skills to keep us alive. well, me at least.

Not if you don’t know which wood ou are burning.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

You are if you are talking acacia.

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

OK. we have simply found a weak point in your armour that you wouldn’t deserve if you never went camping in the wilderness.

I’ve gone camping in the wilderness several times. I never need to light a fire.

dv said:

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

don’t worry DV if we get lost out bush i have campcraft skills to keep us alive. well, me at least.

And I’ll live on through you, literally

The pen is mightier than the deepest den?

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

OK. we have simply found a weak point in your armour that you wouldn’t deserve if you never went camping in the wilderness.

I’ve gone camping in the wilderness several times. I never need to light a fire.

You’re not a fire starter, a twisted fire starter.

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

don’t worry DV if we get lost out bush i have campcraft skills to keep us alive. well, me at least.

Not if you don’t know which wood ou are burning.

why? been camping heeeeeeeeaps of times.

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

OK. we have simply found a weak point in your armour that you wouldn’t deserve if you never went camping in the wilderness.

I’ve gone camping in the wilderness several times. I never need to light a fire.

You’re not a fire starter, a twisted fire starter.

Breathe with me

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

But I’m not talking Acacia either. I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

OK. we have simply found a weak point in your armour that you wouldn’t deserve if you never went camping in the wilderness.

I’ve gone camping in the wilderness several times. I never need to light a fire.

If indeed you ever are attempting it. Apply some science first and you will be OK.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

OK. we have simply found a weak point in your armour that you wouldn’t deserve if you never went camping in the wilderness.

I’ve gone camping in the wilderness several times. I never need to light a fire.

If indeed you ever are attempting it. Apply some science first and you will be OK.

Hopefully this October will be the degree confluence visit to western Tasmania.

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

I’ve gone camping in the wilderness several times. I never need to light a fire.

You’re not a fire starter, a twisted fire starter.

Breathe with me

backs away slowly

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

don’t worry DV if we get lost out bush i have campcraft skills to keep us alive. well, me at least.

Not if you don’t know which wood ou are burning.

why? been camping heeeeeeeeaps of times.

did you burn wood?

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Not if you don’t know which wood ou are burning.

why? been camping heeeeeeeeaps of times.

did you burn wood?

yes.

roughbarked said:

kii said:

ChrispenEvan said:

dunno how hot a wood fire gets but paper burns at Fahrenheit 451.

Another book I must re-read.

Seriously the importance has long passed.

Oh?

dv said:

I know practically nothing about the burning of wood. I’ve never lived anywhere that merited the possession of a fireplace.

That’s so sad :( Go set fire to a lump of lumber and enjoy the feeling of power.

dv said:

Hopefully this October will be the degree confluence visit to western Tasmania.

Will you be spending any time in the fine state of Victoria while you’re over east?

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

why? been camping heeeeeeeeaps of times.

did you burn wood?

yes.

I really am not trying to fake knowledge here. and you know I am not talking shit.

some woods do burn really hot

kii said:

roughbarked said:

kii said:

Another book I must re-read.

Seriously the importance has long passed.

Oh?

Well in sci-fi.. much of it is now a reality.

mcgoon said:

A wood-burning heater installed in an existing fireplace seems to be a popular option in the UK, if you can go by what’s seen in ‘Escape to the Country’.

I expect that they are seen as more efficient, less heavy on the fuel, safer, and easier to manage than the exisiting open fire.

This.

I miss slow combustion stoves. It’s a lot more work than flipping a switch, but the heat is nicer. Plus you can put a pot of water on the top to help humidify the room.

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

did you burn wood?

yes.

I really am not trying to fake knowledge here. and you know I am not talking shit.

some woods do burn really hot

I know of two. Acacia and Pinus palustris. We have a stump of the latter in the front yard which may be worth excavating one day.

kii said:

mcgoon said:

A wood-burning heater installed in an existing fireplace seems to be a popular option in the UK, if you can go by what’s seen in ‘Escape to the Country’.

I expect that they are seen as more efficient, less heavy on the fuel, safer, and easier to manage than the exisiting open fire.

This.

I miss slow combustion stoves. It’s a lot more work than flipping a switch, but the heat is nicer. Plus you can put a pot of water on the top to help humidify the room.

and that the the working with wood warms you at the very least, twice.

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

did you burn wood?

yes.

I really am not trying to fake knowledge here. and you know I am not talking shit.

some woods do burn really hot

thing is when camping you burn what grows in the area, what is handy and what is dry. you can’t always be picky

while watching a fire is beautiful, I cannot argue that it’s the best form of heating a home. It’s bad for the environment on a number of levels and unnecessarily laborious.

kii said:

mcgoon said:

A wood-burning heater installed in an existing fireplace seems to be a popular option in the UK, if you can go by what’s seen in ‘Escape to the Country’.

I expect that they are seen as more efficient, less heavy on the fuel, safer, and easier to manage than the exisiting open fire.

This.

I miss slow combustion stoves. It’s a lot more work than flipping a switch, but the heat is nicer.

Heat is heat is heat.

Arts said:

while watching a fire is beautiful, I cannot argue that it’s the best form of heating a home. It’s bad for the environment on a number of levels and unnecessarily laborious.

i don’t use wood. electric oil heater. Only me to worry about after all. plus i don’t have the vehicle or a chainsaw to get wood.

sibeen said:

kii said:

mcgoon said:

A wood-burning heater installed in an existing fireplace seems to be a popular option in the UK, if you can go by what’s seen in ‘Escape to the Country’.

I expect that they are seen as more efficient, less heavy on the fuel, safer, and easier to manage than the exisiting open fire.

This.

I miss slow combustion stoves. It’s a lot more work than flipping a switch, but the heat is nicer.

Heat is heat is heat.

it’s analogue heat not digital. same as valves give a warmer sound.

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

yes.

I really am not trying to fake knowledge here. and you know I am not talking shit.

some woods do burn really hot

thing is when camping you burn what grows in the area, what is handy and what is dry. you can’t always be picky

This be true but it was amusing when my next door neighbour who was actually born in the bush, came to White Cliffs with me and one of our activities was to get firewood. Later that eve he said, what have you f’n done? Why can I sit in the smoke of your fire?

It may be false but it is sandalwood, was my reply.

sibeen said:

kii said:

mcgoon said:

A wood-burning heater installed in an existing fireplace seems to be a popular option in the UK, if you can go by what’s seen in ‘Escape to the Country’.

I expect that they are seen as more efficient, less heavy on the fuel, safer, and easier to manage than the exisiting open fire.

This.

I miss slow combustion stoves. It’s a lot more work than flipping a switch, but the heat is nicer.

Heat is heat is heat.

No. Radiating heat is nicer than heat blowing out of vents.

kii said:

sibeen said:

kii said:

This.

I miss slow combustion stoves. It’s a lot more work than flipping a switch, but the heat is nicer.

Heat is heat is heat.

No. Radiating heat is nicer than heat blowing out of vents.

Which is why theay stuck bits of iron around it.

Phil_C said:

dv said:

Hopefully this October will be the degree confluence visit to western Tasmania.

Will you be spending any time in the fine state of Victoria while you’re over east?

I suppose I should do a whistlestop tour for my adoring fans

dv said:

Phil_C said:

dv said:

Hopefully this October will be the degree confluence visit to western Tasmania.

Will you be spending any time in the fine state of Victoria while you’re over east?

I suppose I should do a whistlestop tour for my adoring fans

You really should find some more than me in the riverina.

use tungsten

Spiny Norman said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Steel or cast iron can easily withstand 400 degrees without deforming.
Even a thin billy will happily sit directly in a fire over and over for years.

The water cools the metal. You could probably hold a blowtorch on the side and until the water boils away from that spot, it won’t melt.

I once three-quarters filled a Styrofoam coffee cup with water and put it over a Bunsen burner. The Styrofoam shrivelled and burnt to the water level, then the water boiled. The Styrofoam remained structurally sound during the whole experiment.

roughbarked said:

Spiny Norman said:

Rule 303 said:

Google is your friend.

Plenty more where that’s from:

Ta for that. Considering that the grate would only be carrying 10 – 20 kg of wood, max, you should be able to get a good 600° without a problem.

It does also depend upon what wood you are burning where.
I did make the mistake of giving my wife Yarran to burn in our combustion stove. She had no comprehension of the logistics involved.
The stove has been seriously compromised ever since and hence decomissioned pending replacement unless solar is a better solution.

I don’t get it. You brought in the wood and it’s her fault she used it?

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

Spiny Norman said:

Ta for that. Considering that the grate would only be carrying 10 – 20 kg of wood, max, you should be able to get a good 600° without a problem.

It does also depend upon what wood you are burning where.
I did make the mistake of giving my wife Yarran to burn in our combustion stove. She had no comprehension of the logistics involved.
The stove has been seriously compromised ever since and hence decomissioned pending replacement unless solar is a better solution.

I don’t get it. You brought in the wood and it’s her fault she used it?

Yep you don’t get it.
It is a slow combustion stove. Not designed to be a blast furnace.

The wood would be OK if it was used properly.

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

It does also depend upon what wood you are burning where.
I did make the mistake of giving my wife Yarran to burn in our combustion stove. She had no comprehension of the logistics involved.
The stove has been seriously compromised ever since and hence decomissioned pending replacement unless solar is a better solution.

I don’t get it. You brought in the wood and it’s her fault she used it?

Yep you don’t get it.
It is a slow combustion stove. Not designed to be a blast furnace.

The wood would be OK if it was used properly.

How do you use the wood properly?

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

I don’t get it. You brought in the wood and it’s her fault she used it?

Yep you don’t get it.
It is a slow combustion stove. Not designed to be a blast furnace.

The wood would be OK if it was used properly.

How do you use the wood properly?

By burning it slowly.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Yep you don’t get it.
It is a slow combustion stove. Not designed to be a blast furnace.

The wood would be OK if it was used properly.

How do you use the wood properly?

By burning it slowly.

Do the manufacturers say burn only softwood or some such warning?

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

How do you use the wood properly?

By burning it slowly.

Do the manufacturers say burn only softwood or some such warning?

No The manufacturers gave instructions to burn almost anything apart from the daily rubbish.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

By burning it slowly.

Do the manufacturers say burn only softwood or some such warning?

No The manufacturers gave instructions to burn almost anything apart from the daily rubbish.

Yes. Mine says burn only wood but some do have a notice saying they are suitable for burning hardwoods. I think that’s because hardwoods burn at a higher temperature.

All our woodheaters over the past 35 years have come with instructions to use only hardwood. And as we have used Heatcharm since their very early days, they have been specifically designed for Australian hardwood. We use a little cypress or pine for kindling at times, along with paper, but we have been strict that only good wood goes into the woodheaters. Rubbishy stuff like garden exotics that have been cut down have been used in the ambience fireplace over the years. If you use the softwoods they tar up the flue.

buffy said:

All our woodheaters over the past 35 years have come with instructions to use only hardwood. And as we have used Heatcharm since their very early days, they have been specifically designed for Australian hardwood. We use a little cypress or pine for kindling at times, along with paper, but we have been strict that only good wood goes into the woodheaters. Rubbishy stuff like garden exotics that have been cut down have been used in the ambience fireplace over the years. If you use the softwoods they tar up the flue.

That all makes sense buffy.
I have a Masport & it burns clean even with the damper fully closed. I burn whatever the cyclones knock down but it’s all eucalypt of one kind or another.

buffy said:

All our woodheaters over the past 35 years have come with instructions to use only hardwood. And as we have used Heatcharm since their very early days, they have been specifically designed for Australian hardwood. We use a little cypress or pine for kindling at times, along with paper, but we have been strict that only good wood goes into the woodheaters. Rubbishy stuff like garden exotics that have been cut down have been used in the ambience fireplace over the years. If you use the softwoods they tar up the flue.

yes.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Do the manufacturers say burn only softwood or some such warning?

No The manufacturers gave instructions to burn almost anything apart from the daily rubbish.

Yes. Mine says burn only wood but some do have a notice saying they are suitable for burning hardwoods. I think that’s because hardwoods burn at a higher temperature.

Yes and Yarran is as hard a wood as any.

With a slow combustion stove one should only burn well dried wood or coal etc.

roughbarked said:

With a slow combustion stove one should only burn well dried wood or coal etc.

A bloke living in the rainforst up north told me that the wood should be dead fifty years before burning in a slow combustion stove.

To me that is an exageration but then again it is also a caution.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

With a slow combustion stove one should only burn well dried wood or coal etc.

A bloke living in the rainforst up north told me that the wood should be dead fifty years before burning in a slow combustion stove.

To me that is an exageration but then again it is also a caution.

It’s dry enough if it will split easily.

Page 8 here gives some Australian wood comparisons:

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjyl_-f2c_TAhUDkpQKHScLA24QFggmMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shamic.com%2FdataPhotos%2F20130519c952ce2013%2520Heatcharm%2520Install%26OperatingInstructions.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGziPn4r60ryRGAivvEKBOKVx84vw&cad=rja

I can’t find anything quickly in print, but as I understand it the Heatcharm fireboxes have some sort of double burning chamber system to get the most out of the wood.

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

Spiny Norman said:

Ta for that. Considering that the grate would only be carrying 10 – 20 kg of wood, max, you should be able to get a good 600° without a problem.

It does also depend upon what wood you are burning where.
I did make the mistake of giving my wife Yarran to burn in our combustion stove. She had no comprehension of the logistics involved.
The stove has been seriously compromised ever since and hence decomissioned pending replacement unless solar is a better solution.

I don’t get it. You brought in the wood and it’s her fault she used it?

Be fair. How was Roughbarked to know that his wife would just assume that it was safe to put wood in a wood burning stove, without researching the thermal characteristics of the species, and calculating a temperature-time graph first?

The Rev Dodgson said:

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

It does also depend upon what wood you are burning where.
I did make the mistake of giving my wife Yarran to burn in our combustion stove. She had no comprehension of the logistics involved.
The stove has been seriously compromised ever since and hence decomissioned pending replacement unless solar is a better solution.

I don’t get it. You brought in the wood and it’s her fault she used it?

Be fair. How was Roughbarked to know that his wife would just assume that it was safe to put wood in a wood burning stove, without researching the thermal characteristics of the species, and calculating a temperature-time graph first?

I simply expected her to use it as a slow combustion stove. I’m afraid she wanted a stove that was instantly hot without being hot the rest of the time. It was my fault because I didn’t also install an electric stove at first. She refused to have gas because she thought it was too dangerous.

buffy said:

Page 8 here gives some Australian wood comparisons:

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjyl_-f2c_TAhUDkpQKHScLA24QFggmMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shamic.com%2FdataPhotos%2F20130519c952ce2013%2520Heatcharm%2520Install%26OperatingInstructions.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGziPn4r60ryRGAivvEKBOKVx84vw&cad=rja

I can’t find anything quickly in print, but as I understand it the Heatcharm fireboxes have some sort of double burning chamber system to get the most out of the wood.

This table is pretty good http://www.jetmaster.com.au/best-australian-firewood/

Greetings from the north.

Feeling heaps better. The past weekend was a bad one for me. mr kii stayed home today and we just chilled out and re-visited what are plans are with our workshop and what we planned to do with it when we built it all those years ago. He scratched through some boxes of his stuff and found some treasures that haven’t seen the light of day since we packed up his stuff in 2005. He retires in one month.

I’m about to write my resignation letter…this has been at the heart of my panics for 3 or 4 days….I know it’s the right decision.

Grace update: she is waiting for me to turn my back and she is going to eat the chamomile and the nasturtiums that have been watered with fish emulsion.

derp

Worth a thread, probably

http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article10.html

kii said:

Greetings from the north.

Feeling heaps better. The past weekend was a bad one for me. mr kii stayed home today and we just chilled out and re-visited what are plans are with our workshop and what we planned to do with it when we built it all those years ago. He scratched through some boxes of his stuff and found some treasures that haven’t seen the light of day since we packed up his stuff in 2005. He retires in one month.

I’m about to write my resignation letter…this has been at the heart of my panics for 3 or 4 days….I know it’s the right decision.

Grace update: she is waiting for me to turn my back and she is going to eat the chamomile and the nasturtiums that have been watered with fish emulsion.

Fish emulsion + Grace. Bad decision on someone’s part.

dv said:

Worth a thread, probably

What?

“How sad is it when two oldies find a working Discman packed away?”

or

“Why does Grace like fish flavoured chamomile?”

Think I’ll go link it up to my sound system in my room and play the Oils :P

roughbarked said:

http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article10.html

Wow. I really like that.

Try some blood and bone, or dynamic lifter….or even just plain chook poo, while you have Bruna around…

I think we may have sent this thread onto a side road.

buffy said:

Try some blood and bone, or dynamic lifter….or even just plain chook poo, while you have Bruna around…

I think we may have sent this thread onto a side road.

We used b&b last summer with the pumpkins. Both dogs, Daisy and Bruna (aka, Grace), wanted to eat the yard.

Yep, derailed good and proper.

kii said:

buffy said:

Try some blood and bone, or dynamic lifter….or even just plain chook poo, while you have Bruna around…

I think we may have sent this thread onto a side road.

We used b&b last summer with the pumpkins. Both dogs, Daisy and Bruna (aka, Grace), wanted to eat the yard.

Yep, derailed good and proper.

Makes sense

My heater is an Arrow, installed over twenty years ago, still going strong. Don’t find it necessary to use the fan, just have the vent 1/3 open. Red gum ok, as is yellow gum. Grey box burns well but a lot of ash left. Best of all Sugar gum, left to dry for at least a year, longer if possible.

One problem. Birds enter firebox via flue. Must be looking for nesting material.

bucolic3401 said:

My heater is an Arrow, installed over twenty years ago, still going strong. Don’t find it necessary to use the fan, just have the vent 1/3 open. Red gum ok, as is yellow gum. Grey box burns well but a lot of ash left. Best of all Sugar gum, left to dry for at least a year, longer if possible.

If the heater is a metal box put into a masonry container, how is the electric motor insulated from heat?

bucolic3401 said:

One problem. Birds enter firebox via flue. Must be looking for nesting material.

I have had two Owlet Nightjars come down the flue, one died before found, whilst the other released unharmed. They were young birds, probably looking for a home; they normally roost in tree hollows, although a family has been living in my roof eaves for years.

PermeateFree said:

bucolic3401 said:

One problem. Birds enter firebox via flue. Must be looking for nesting material.

I have had two Owlet Nightjars come down the flue, one died before found, whilst the other released unharmed. They were young birds, probably looking for a home; they normally roost in tree hollows, although a family has been living in my roof eaves for years.

Change the cap on the flue.