Just another hypothetical…

A shot -term survival kit, able to be air-dropped, to sustain survivors on the ground for a day or two before real rescue can be organised – say in the aftermath of natural disasters or people stranded in remote locations.

I’m thinking of a standardised kit of say 20-30 kg that can be dropped by helicopter. drone or parachuted from fixed wing aircraft.

What is in that kit?

My ideas so far:
10 L (10 kg) of water – say 5 × 2L bottles in robust containers
packets of 2 minutes noodles
tins of SPAM
tins of peas or corn
selection of chocolate bars
jelly beans
portable camping gas cooker and maybe a spare gas can or two
hatchet
pruning saw
Swiss army knife
fire blanket or compact foil and foam blanket
inflatable pillow
bandages and first aid kit
maybe some satchels of coffee and sugar

anything else?

what is the most efficient form of food to deliver?

party_pants said:

what is the most efficient form of food to deliver?

Peanuts.

party_pants said:

what is the most efficient form of food to deliver?

Tools and knowledge.

If it is only 2 or three days you would probably only need water (depending on availability of water you would be able to get away with Milbank filter and tablets but if you want to standardise water is ok), some high energy gear like chocolate and muesli bars and a space blanket all wrapped in a hoot hey with cord attached.

The best relief for stranded people would be the food drop and knowledge that the location is known and help is on its way.

AwesomeO said:

The best relief for stranded people would be the food drop and knowledge that the location is known and help is on its way.

maybe an AM radio (1970’s type tranny) locked to a specific broadcast channel?

Part of my thinking is if the location is convenient rescue would be close, but if you are thinking air dropping supplies in anticipation of two days before recovery then you might be at the limits of supply, so lightweight would be a very high consideration. You can put up with a lot if it is only two or three days so I wouldn’t be worrying about pillows and hatchets or saws and stuff.

All you need is water, some food and to keep warm ( or out of the sun) really.

party_pants said:

AwesomeO said:

The best relief for stranded people would be the food drop and knowledge that the location is known and help is on its way.

maybe an AM radio (1970’s type tranny) locked to a specific broadcast channel?

Or just put a note on the drop, “rescue coming day after tomorrow”.

party_pants said:

Just another hypothetical…

A shot -term survival kit, able to be air-dropped, to sustain survivors on the ground for a day or two before real rescue can be organised – say in the aftermath of natural disasters or people stranded in remote locations.

I’m thinking of a standardised kit of say 20-30 kg that can be dropped by helicopter. drone or parachuted from fixed wing aircraft.

What is in that kit?

My ideas so far:
10 L (10 kg) of water – say 5 × 2L bottles in robust containers
packets of 2 minutes noodles
tins of SPAM
tins of peas or corn
selection of chocolate bars
jelly beans
portable camping gas cooker and maybe a spare gas can or two
hatchet
pruning saw
Swiss army knife
fire blanket or compact foil and foam blanket
inflatable pillow
bandages and first aid kit
maybe some satchels of coffee and sugar

anything else?

what is the most efficient form of food to deliver?

I don’t like SPAM. Have you seen that stuff plop out of a tin? I’d prefer nuts, dried fruit and choccy.

AwesomeO said:

party_pants said:

AwesomeO said:

The best relief for stranded people would be the food drop and knowledge that the location is known and help is on its way.

maybe an AM radio (1970’s type tranny) locked to a specific broadcast channel?

Or just put a note on the drop, “rescue coming day after tomorrow”.

Seems simple enough.

I wonder if there is already a stockpile of such kits, say for floods or cyclones

Draws large sign on beach.

SEND NUDES

OK. So no food that needs cooking, nor any cooking supplies.

choccies, nuts, museli bars and similar.

I was thinking hatchets and pruning saws to give people a chance to build a fire to keep warm. But i guess a foil blanket could do the trick.

party_pants said:

AwesomeO said:

party_pants said:

maybe an AM radio (1970’s type tranny) locked to a specific broadcast channel?

Or just put a note on the drop, “rescue coming day after tomorrow”.

Seems simple enough.

I wonder if there is already a stockpile of such kits, say for floods or cyclones

There are, 11 FD Ambulance had a paddock of deplorable containers all designed for particular purposes but not really for individual survival packs, more like containers of pumps, generators, tents etc. if you are talking stuff that can be thrown out of a helicopter to sustain life for a few days that can be done pretty well at a local purchase level.

party_pants said:

OK. So no food that needs cooking, nor any cooking supplies.

choccies, nuts, museli bars and similar.

I was thinking hatchets and pruning saws to give people a chance to build a fire to keep warm. But i guess a foil blanket could do the trick.

Thing there is that chopping and gathering wood is pretty energy intensive, hatches and saws are heavy. Probably better off just sending some (if it is really cold) water resistant blankets, space blankets and tell them to just wrap up and conserve energy.

maybe a spade and some dunny paper?

AwesomeO said:

party_pants said:

OK. So no food that needs cooking, nor any cooking supplies.

choccies, nuts, museli bars and similar.

I was thinking hatchets and pruning saws to give people a chance to build a fire to keep warm. But i guess a foil blanket could do the trick.

Thing there is that chopping and gathering wood is pretty energy intensive, hatches and saws are heavy. Probably better off just sending some (if it is really cold) water resistant blankets, space blankets and tell them to just wrap up and conserve energy.

yeah, I guess so.

party_pants said:

maybe a spade and some dunny paper?

You are talking about an area so remote that rescue is two days away, I don’t think a shit on the surface 20 metres from a camp is going to worry anything especially if you are drinking bottled water. No need to bury it. Toilet paper would be nice, though I would be inclined to send strips of material, toilet paper or bandage, your choice.

AwesomeO said:

party_pants said:

maybe a spade and some dunny paper?

You are talking about an area so remote that rescue is two days away, I don’t think a shit on the surface 20 metres from a camp is going to worry anything especially if you are drinking bottled water. No need to bury it. Toilet paper would be nice, though I would be inclined to send strips of material, toilet paper or bandage, your choice.

Kinda thinking of two scenarios – small number of people stranded in remote locations, or the aftermath of some natural disaster with lots of people scattered in isolated pockets where the infrastructure for immediate evacuation is destroyed, missing or inadequate,

But yeah, it seems pretty simple actually to keep people alive for 2-3 days.

party_pants said:

AwesomeO said:

party_pants said:

maybe a spade and some dunny paper?

You are talking about an area so remote that rescue is two days away, I don’t think a shit on the surface 20 metres from a camp is going to worry anything especially if you are drinking bottled water. No need to bury it. Toilet paper would be nice, though I would be inclined to send strips of material, toilet paper or bandage, your choice.

Kinda thinking of two scenarios – small number of people stranded in remote locations, or the aftermath of some natural disaster with lots of people scattered in isolated pockets where the infrastructure for immediate evacuation is destroyed, missing or inadequate,

But yeah, it seems pretty simple actually to keep people alive for 2-3 days.

Without extremes of temperature and not doing much you could stay alive for three days without food or water, but water would be getting serious about day three.

party_pants said:

AwesomeO said:

party_pants said:

maybe a spade and some dunny paper?

You are talking about an area so remote that rescue is two days away, I don’t think a shit on the surface 20 metres from a camp is going to worry anything especially if you are drinking bottled water. No need to bury it. Toilet paper would be nice, though I would be inclined to send strips of material, toilet paper or bandage, your choice.

Kinda thinking of two scenarios – small number of people stranded in remote locations, or the aftermath of some natural disaster with lots of people scattered in isolated pockets where the infrastructure for immediate evacuation is destroyed, missing or inadequate,

But yeah, it seems pretty simple actually to keep people alive for 2-3 days.

Yes two different scenarios, intact infrastructure and small party v demolished infrastructure and large population.

Skip the cooker and any food that needs to be cooked. Drop ready-to-eat food.

AwesomeO said:

party_pants said:

AwesomeO said:

You are talking about an area so remote that rescue is two days away, I don’t think a shit on the surface 20 metres from a camp is going to worry anything especially if you are drinking bottled water. No need to bury it. Toilet paper would be nice, though I would be inclined to send strips of material, toilet paper or bandage, your choice.

Kinda thinking of two scenarios – small number of people stranded in remote locations, or the aftermath of some natural disaster with lots of people scattered in isolated pockets where the infrastructure for immediate evacuation is destroyed, missing or inadequate,

But yeah, it seems pretty simple actually to keep people alive for 2-3 days.

Without extremes of temperature and not doing much you could stay alive for three days without food or water, but water would be getting serious about day three.

The lack of water in the Australian outback during summer, could become very serious in only one day.

party_pants said:

Just another hypothetical…

A shot -term survival kit, able to be air-dropped, to sustain survivors on the ground for a day or two before real rescue can be organised – say in the aftermath of natural disasters or people stranded in remote locations.

I’m thinking of a standardised kit of say 20-30 kg that can be dropped by helicopter. drone or parachuted from fixed wing aircraft.

What is in that kit?

My ideas so far:
10 L (10 kg) of water – say 5 × 2L bottles in robust containers
packets of 2 minutes noodles
tins of SPAM
tins of peas or corn
selection of chocolate bars
jelly beans
portable camping gas cooker and maybe a spare gas can or two
hatchet
pruning saw
Swiss army knife
fire blanket or compact foil and foam blanket
inflatable pillow
bandages and first aid kit
maybe some satchels of coffee and sugar

anything else?

what is the most efficient form of food to deliver?

20-30 kg is a fuck ton of weight for 1-2 days, are you rescuing a tour bus or something?

poikilotherm said:

party_pants said:

Just another hypothetical…

A shot -term survival kit, able to be air-dropped, to sustain survivors on the ground for a day or two before real rescue can be organised – say in the aftermath of natural disasters or people stranded in remote locations.

I’m thinking of a standardised kit of say 20-30 kg that can be dropped by helicopter. drone or parachuted from fixed wing aircraft.

What is in that kit?

My ideas so far:
10 L (10 kg) of water – say 5 × 2L bottles in robust containers
packets of 2 minutes noodles
tins of SPAM
tins of peas or corn
selection of chocolate bars
jelly beans
portable camping gas cooker and maybe a spare gas can or two
hatchet
pruning saw
Swiss army knife
fire blanket or compact foil and foam blanket
inflatable pillow
bandages and first aid kit
maybe some satchels of coffee and sugar

anything else?

what is the most efficient form of food to deliver?

20-30 kg is a fuck ton of weight for 1-2 days, are you rescuing a tour bus or something?

derp me, I should read things properly. Nevermind.

(haven’t read the whole thread) Flint for making fire?

If it’s only 1-2 days, and just for survival, and they aren’t likely to travel, all they need is shelter and water, food is unnecessary.

Space blankets, water (or water purification/filtering), tent or similar.

It also depends on what the disaster is. Fire wouldn’t be terribly effective after a tsunami.

Divine Angel said:

It also depends on what the disaster is. Fire wouldn’t be terribly effective after a tsunami.

Or bushfire…

>>10 L (10 kg) of water – say 5 × 2L bottles in robust containers

Will it be sparkling?

Peak Warming Man said:

>>10 L (10 kg) of water – say 5 × 2L bottles in robust containers

Will it be sparkling?

Comes with its own flavour too, since life just gave you lemons…

Divine Angel said:

Peak Warming Man said:

>>10 L (10 kg) of water – say 5 × 2L bottles in robust containers

Will it be sparkling?

Comes with its own flavour too, since life just gave you lemons…

Natural disaster tastes like cholera.

party_pants said:

maybe a spade and some dunny paper?

and information about how to avoid spoiling your source of drinking water.

AwesomeO said:

party_pants said:

maybe a spade and some dunny paper?

You are talking about an area so remote that rescue is two days away, I don’t think a shit on the surface 20 metres from a camp is going to worry anything especially if you are drinking bottled water. No need to bury it. Toilet paper would be nice, though I would be inclined to send strips of material, toilet paper or bandage, your choice.

Wit until you are walking in it?

Calorie dense protein/carbohydrate bars perhaps

Ration Packs…

One week of food for an adult refugee:

1.92 kilograms of rice
400 grams of flour
170 grams of lentils
85 grams of chickpeas
125 grams of tinned sardines
400 grams of tinned kidney beans
300 millilitres of oil

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-25/living-on-the-same-food-rations-as-a-syrian-refugee/8557818

Michael V said:

One week of food for an adult refugee:

1.92 kilograms of rice
400 grams of flour
170 grams of lentils
85 grams of chickpeas
125 grams of tinned sardines
400 grams of tinned kidney beans
300 millilitres of oil

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-25/living-on-the-same-food-rations-as-a-syrian-refugee/8557818

I’d imagine it’s quite a fattening diet if you ate all that rice each week.

Bubblecar said:

Michael V said:

One week of food for an adult refugee:

1.92 kilograms of rice
400 grams of flour
170 grams of lentils
85 grams of chickpeas
125 grams of tinned sardines
400 grams of tinned kidney beans
300 millilitres of oil

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-25/living-on-the-same-food-rations-as-a-syrian-refugee/8557818

I’d imagine it’s quite a fattening diet if you ate all that rice each week.

Not really. <100g per meal, and nothing else much to add to it.

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

Michael V said:

One week of food for an adult refugee:

1.92 kilograms of rice
400 grams of flour
170 grams of lentils
85 grams of chickpeas
125 grams of tinned sardines
400 grams of tinned kidney beans
300 millilitres of oil

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-25/living-on-the-same-food-rations-as-a-syrian-refugee/8557818

I’d imagine it’s quite a fattening diet if you ate all that rice each week.

Not really. <100g per meal, and nothing else much to add to it.

In rice alone it’s over 250gm a day, presumably dry weight, which makes a heck of a lot of cooked rice.

The photo has 8 items, one more than the list?

Peak Warming Man said:

The photo has 8 items, one more than the list?

Is it a bag of rice plus the rice in the container I wonder

When I say “fattening”, I don’t mean nutritious. And it’s a drab diet indeed. You’d think they’d at least supply some salt and onions.

Bubblecar said:

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

I’d imagine it’s quite a fattening diet if you ate all that rice each week.

Not really. <100g per meal, and nothing else much to add to it.

In rice alone it’s over 250gm a day, presumably dry weight, which makes a heck of a lot of cooked rice.

As I said: <100g per meal and not much else to go with it. So about 1500 Kj per meal. 4500 Kj per day. If you or I consumed that few kilojoules, we’d surely lose weight. Well, I reckon I would anyway.

Cymek said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The photo has 8 items, one more than the list?

Is it a bag of rice plus the rice in the container I wonder

It looks like it.

Dunno why you’d bother with food for a 1-2 day wait, surely that’s not long enough for them to go all Uruguayan rugby.

poikilotherm said:

Dunno why you’d bother with food for a 1-2 day wait, surely that’s not long enough for them to go all Uruguayan rugby.

A brace of kabanas, net bag of oranges and a packet of Gaiety would see them through.

party_pants said:

Just another hypothetical…

A shot -term survival kit, able to be air-dropped, to sustain survivors on the ground for a day or two before real rescue can be organised – say in the aftermath of natural disasters or people stranded in remote locations.

I’m thinking of a standardised kit of say 20-30 kg that can be dropped by helicopter. drone or parachuted from fixed wing aircraft.

What is in that kit?

My ideas so far:
10 L (10 kg) of water – say 5 × 2L bottles in robust containers
packets of 2 minutes noodles
tins of SPAM
tins of peas or corn
selection of chocolate bars
jelly beans
portable camping gas cooker and maybe a spare gas can or two
hatchet
pruning saw
Swiss army knife
fire blanket or compact foil and foam blanket
inflatable pillow
bandages and first aid kit
maybe some satchels of coffee and sugar

anything else?

what is the most efficient form of food to deliver?

Something to keep the sun and rain off. Tent?
Something to give warmth at night. The best quality eiderdowns pack up very small.

If you believe mythbusters: Duct tape and bubble wrap. And make sure the knife is sharp.

For food – separate out food for energy from food for nutrition.
Best food for energy is fat. Any sort of fat/oil that won’t spoil in the heat.
Best food for nutrition is liver or yeast – I use liverwurst, some prefer Vegemite or beer. But that’s only needed for very long term health.
Best food for flavour is – pizza? Lasagne?

If it’s extremely cold, like alpine or Siberia, add brandy or vodka. Don’t tell me I’m wrong here, I’m not.

First aid.
A splint of metal or carbon fibre for broken legs.
A cylinder of gas and air (oxygen plus nitrous oxide) for extreme pain.

Possibly tree climbing or mountain climbing equipment, including ropes, pegs and caribiners to escape from predators like lions, hyenas and grizzly bears, and to make travel safe on steep terrain and down waterfalls.

Possibly sled, to carry an injured mate.

mollwollfumble said:

If it’s extremely cold, like alpine or Siberia, add brandy or vodka. Don’t tell me I’m wrong here, I’m not.

all those exercises we do for team building have always said no to alcohol… please show working.

mollwollfumble said:

First aid.
A splint of metal or carbon fibre for broken legs.
A cylinder of gas and air (oxygen plus nitrous oxide) for extreme pain.

splints can be found almost anywhere and do need to be carried.

mollwollfumble said:

Possibly tree climbing or mountain climbing equipment, including ropes, pegs and caribiners to escape from predators like lions, hyenas and grizzly bears, and to make travel safe on steep terrain and down waterfalls.

except bears can climb quite well

In answering this, I have several cases in mind, particularly a Japanese air crash where there were survivors initially but by the time the rescuers got there two days later they had all died.

Other thoughts include for climbers who have fallen off a mountain, trapped on a sea cliff, abandoned on an island, adrift at sea, the Green Mountains plane crash where one survivor perished when he fell down a waterfall, places where there are unfriendly natives armed with guns or spears, trapped by floodwaters, tsunami survivors, survivors of a pyroclastic flow., In the middle of a desert. Heart attack in the middle of nowhere.

To add:

Antidepressants. Extremely useful.

Antibiotics and antifungals both in pill form and as lotions for external application.

Anti-inflamatory

Any vital prescription medication that the people may have run out of, such as insulin, asthma medication, nicotine patches, heart attack medication, anti-cancer medication, etc.

Possibly

Ladder, to double as a sled or stretcher.

For a family lost at sea, the lifesaver was a gaff for catching fish. Would be a great idea for any coastal location.

Face masks, to protect against airborne germs and the smell from rotting garbage.

Water purifier tablets, or water filter, for water the survivors get from a pond or creek.

Did you mention plates and bowls? fork or spoon? Long-handled gas lighter?

A set of clothes, because there’s a good chance that the clothes of the survivors a ripped or burnt. The ripped clothing can then be reused as bandages and slings.

A torch. GPS, compass.

I’d also include sterile saline solution.

Candy such as tic-tacs because it survives unprotected longer in all weather conditions and doesn’t require any tools to eat.

Sunscreen. Insect repellent. Salt for removing leeches.

mollwollfumble said:

In answering this, I have several cases in mind, particularly a Japanese air crash where there were survivors initially but by the time the rescuers got there two days later they had all died.

Other thoughts include for climbers who have fallen off a mountain, trapped on a sea cliff, abandoned on an island, adrift at sea, the Green Mountains plane crash where one survivor perished when he fell down a waterfall, places where there are unfriendly natives armed with guns or spears, trapped by floodwaters, tsunami survivors, survivors of a pyroclastic flow., In the middle of a desert. Heart attack in the middle of nowhere.

To add:

Antidepressants. Extremely useful.

Antibiotics and antifungals both in pill form and as lotions for external application.

Anti-inflamatory

Any vital prescription medication that the people may have run out of, such as insulin, asthma medication, nicotine patches, heart attack medication, anti-cancer medication, etc.

Possibly

Ladder, to double as a sled or stretcher.

For a family lost at sea, the lifesaver was a gaff for catching fish. Would be a great idea for any coastal location.

Face masks, to protect against airborne germs and the smell from rotting garbage.

Water purifier tablets, or water filter, for water the survivors get from a pond or creek.

Did you mention plates and bowls? fork or spoon? Long-handled gas lighter?

A set of clothes, because there’s a good chance that the clothes of the survivors a ripped or burnt. The ripped clothing can then be reused as bandages and slings.

A torch. GPS, compass.

I’d also include sterile saline solution.

Candy such as tic-tacs because it survives unprotected longer in all weather conditions and doesn’t require any tools to eat.

Sunscreen. Insect repellent. Salt for removing leeches.

And a Small Hadron Collider.

Add to that powerful stimulants, for when falling asleep means death, particularly in alpine environments and when warding off predators.

Is there such a thing as a drug that helps with internal bleeding? Bronchial dilators would help with a punctured lung.

What about artificial skin for 3rd degree burn victims?

> all those exercises we do for team building have always said no to alcohol… please show working.

Alcohol prevents frostbite, that’s why it’s so popular in cold countries such as Russia. Frostbite can greatly hinder survival. Alcohol is not a long-term solution because it requires plenty of energy-rich food to support, as well as impairing judgement.

> splints can be found almost anywhere and do need to be carried.

Totally disagree. You need both legs to make a splint. And if you have both legs then you don’t need a splint. A professionally made lightweight splint of carbon fibre or aluminium is much better, strap on in 10 seconds even if you have broken both legs. I could argue that if you have both legs and are sufficiently well that you can use them then you probably don’t need an emergency air drop in the first place. I could also argue that leg fractures are extremely common in plane crashes.

> except bears can climb quite well

But it’s still much safer in a tree in bear country than on the ground, provided you have a harness to stop you falling out. Ditto with other predators, such a humans, jaguars, leopards, tigers, even sometimes mosquitos and leeches.

Peak Warming Man said:

And a Small Hadron Collider.

I didn’t suggest anything bulky or heavy. The bulkiest suggestion was the folding ladder come sled come stretcher (there are styles that fold up like a scissors lift). Total weight about 2 to 4 kg. Two man tent 1.1 kg.

I was tempted to suggest airdropping an ambulance. Or to be more specific, all the contents of an ambulance.

mollwollfumble said:

Alcohol prevents frostbite, that’s why it’s so popular in cold countries such as Russia.

Alcohol reduces circulation, which increases the likelihood of frostbite occurring.

Alcohol is so popular in cold countries such as Russia because they like to drink. Yes, some claim that some alcoholic drinks have medicinal properties, but prevention of frostbite is not one of them.

Speedy said:

mollwollfumble said:

Alcohol prevents frostbite, that’s why it’s so popular in cold countries such as Russia.

Alcohol reduces circulation, which increases the likelihood of frostbite occurring.

Alcohol is so popular in cold countries such as Russia because they like to drink. Yes, some claim that some alcoholic drinks have medicinal properties, but prevention of frostbite is not one of them.

Reduces circulation? My teachings was that alcohol forced blood to the surface where it cools quickly and obviously not desirable where you are trying to retain heat. Having said that if you are rugged up a snifter won’t cause you any harm and will cheer you up.

Or to put it another way, when you are cold the body seeks to keep the blood away from extremities but alcohol does the opposite, that’s why you get flushed.

Speedy said:

mollwollfumble said:

Alcohol prevents frostbite, that’s why it’s so popular in cold countries such as Russia.

Alcohol reduces circulation, which increases the likelihood of frostbite occurring.

Alcohol is so popular in cold countries such as Russia because they like to drink. Yes, some claim that some alcoholic drinks have medicinal properties, but prevention of frostbite is not one of them.

http://www.nutrientsreview.com/alcohol/body-temperature-hypothermia-hyperthermia.html

Okay. I blame my Catholic edumacation for that. We were taught at school that, whilst alcohol gives an initial feeling of warmth, it eventually cools the body, but from that link…

Alcohol drinking results in widening of the arteries and thus increased blood flow in the skin, hands, fingers and toes which warms them . Smoking prevents alcohol-induced dilation of arteries in the fingers . In one study the finger skin temperature increased 30 minutes after drinking alcohol and was still increased at 60 minutes . In another study, after about 4 drinks the skin temperature in fingers increased by 2.4 °C and in toes by 3.4 °C in average .

and

It seems alcohol directly contributes to hypothermia only when it also causes hypoglycemia, which can occur due to a combination of drinking and fasting or drinking and exercise. A typical person at increased risk of hypothermia is a skinny homeless man, a chronic alcoholic on a poor diet, who undresses after starting to feel warm and lies or falls down outside in cold.

Speedy said:

Okay. I blame my Catholic edumacation for that. We were taught at school that, whilst alcohol gives an initial feeling of warmth, it eventually cools the body, but from that link…

Alcohol drinking results in widening of the arteries and thus increased blood flow in the skin, hands, fingers and toes which warms them . Smoking prevents alcohol-induced dilation of arteries in the fingers . In one study the finger skin temperature increased 30 minutes after drinking alcohol and was still increased at 60 minutes . In another study, after about 4 drinks the skin temperature in fingers increased by 2.4 °C and in toes by 3.4 °C in average .

and

It seems alcohol directly contributes to hypothermia only when it also causes hypoglycemia, which can occur due to a combination of drinking and fasting or drinking and exercise. A typical person at increased risk of hypothermia is a skinny homeless man, a chronic alcoholic on a poor diet, who undresses after starting to feel warm and lies or falls down outside in cold.

I don’t know how reliable that site is though on the whole.

I’m suss on it, you’re warming your extremities at the cost of energy & core heat I reckon.

poikilotherm said:

I’m suss on it, you’re warming your extremities at the cost of energy & core heat I reckon.

Which is exactly what I said.

mollwollfumble said:

.

> splints can be found almost anywhere and do need to be carried.

Totally disagree. You need both legs to make a splint. And if you have both legs then you don’t need a splint. A professionally made lightweight splint of carbon fibre or aluminium is much better, strap on in 10 seconds even if you have broken both legs. I could argue that if you have both legs and are sufficiently well that you can use them then you probably don’t need an emergency air drop in the first place. I could also argue that leg fractures are extremely common in plane crashes.

as a first aid instructor we always talk about using what you have to splint… it can be a rolled up paper, the other leg or a tree branch.

mollwollfumble said:

> except bears can climb quite well

But it’s still much safer in a tree in bear country than on the ground, provided you have a harness to stop you falling out. Ditto with other predators, such a humans, jaguars, leopards, tigers, even sometimes mosquitos and leeches.

not what they told us when I was hiking in the Rocky Mountains.. climbing a tree is no escape from a bear.

mollwollfumble said:

poikilotherm said:

I’m suss on it, you’re warming your extremities at the cost of energy & core heat I reckon.

Which is exactly what I said.

Mythbusters also did this one. We all know that alcohol causes vasodilation which warms the extremities and they confirmed that. The drop in core heat from alcohol consumption was so slow that for the time they were in the fridge it was negligible to the point of being too small to measure. But over a long time you’d need a higher calorific intake to sustain the higher heat loss rate.

Arts said:

mollwollfumble said:

.

> splints can be found almost anywhere and do need to be carried.

Totally disagree. You need both legs to make a splint. And if you have both legs then you don’t need a splint. A professionally made lightweight splint of carbon fibre or aluminium is much better, strap on in 10 seconds even if you have broken both legs. I could argue that if you have both legs and are sufficiently well that you can use them then you probably don’t need an emergency air drop in the first place. I could also argue that leg fractures are extremely common in plane crashes.

as a first aid instructor we always talk about using what you have to splint… it can be a rolled up paper, the other leg or a tree branch.

mollwollfumble said:

> except bears can climb quite well

But it’s still much safer in a tree in bear country than on the ground, provided you have a harness to stop you falling out. Ditto with other predators, such a humans, jaguars, leopards, tigers, even sometimes mosquitos and leeches.

not what they told us when I was hiking in the Rocky Mountains.. climbing a tree is no escape from a bear.

If you are up a tree you at least have your head and neck away from the bear and it can only come at you from one direction and not charging, if you have a stick with you you could make it very annoying for the bear if you aim at its eyes. I think it would increase your odds.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

poikilotherm said:

I’m suss on it, you’re warming your extremities at the cost of energy & core heat I reckon.

Which is exactly what I said.

Mythbusters also did this one. We all know that alcohol causes vasodilation which warms the extremities and they confirmed that. The drop in core heat from alcohol consumption was so slow that for the time they were in the fridge it was negligible to the point of being too small to measure. But over a long time you’d need a higher calorific intake to sustain the higher heat loss rate.

ROFL mythbusters

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

mollwollfumble said:

.

> splints can be found almost anywhere and do need to be carried.

Totally disagree. You need both legs to make a splint. And if you have both legs then you don’t need a splint. A professionally made lightweight splint of carbon fibre or aluminium is much better, strap on in 10 seconds even if you have broken both legs. I could argue that if you have both legs and are sufficiently well that you can use them then you probably don’t need an emergency air drop in the first place. I could also argue that leg fractures are extremely common in plane crashes.

as a first aid instructor we always talk about using what you have to splint… it can be a rolled up paper, the other leg or a tree branch.

mollwollfumble said:

> except bears can climb quite well

But it’s still much safer in a tree in bear country than on the ground, provided you have a harness to stop you falling out. Ditto with other predators, such a humans, jaguars, leopards, tigers, even sometimes mosquitos and leeches.

not what they told us when I was hiking in the Rocky Mountains.. climbing a tree is no escape from a bear.

If you are up a tree you at least have your head and neck away from the bear and it can only come at you from one direction and not charging, if you have a stick with you you could make it very annoying for the bear if you aim at its eyes. I think it would increase your odds.

larger bears will just try to knock the tree over…

other predators mentioned jaguars will take their prey into a tree to eat.. so you are just helping them :)

Arts said:

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

not what they told us when I was hiking in the Rocky Mountains.. climbing a tree is no escape from a bear.

If you are up a tree you at least have your head and neck away from the bear and it can only come at you from one direction and not charging, if you have a stick with you you could make it very annoying for the bear if you aim at its eyes. I think it would increase your odds.

larger bears will just try to knock the tree over…

other predators mentioned jaguars will take their prey into a tree to eat.. so you are just helping them :)

Dragging something dead up a tree is different to something in a tree poking at you with a stick or kicking at you, and again, it places your head away from the animal and th animal has to endanger its head to get close, whilst also hanging on. It’s not ideal I just think it increases your survival odds.

anyway, I always sucked at those team building things where you were all marooned on a desert island and you had to choose (for some reason) only a certain number of items to take off the plane…
I have some knowledge of bush tucker in Australia just in case I ever get lost in the outback, and some basic stuff I learned when I was in the desert.. but quite frankly, I’d be the first one to die in a survival situation.. unless I ever crash on a snowy mountain with a football team.. I know what to do then

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

AwesomeO said:

If you are up a tree you at least have your head and neck away from the bear and it can only come at you from one direction and not charging, if you have a stick with you you could make it very annoying for the bear if you aim at its eyes. I think it would increase your odds.

larger bears will just try to knock the tree over…

other predators mentioned jaguars will take their prey into a tree to eat.. so you are just helping them :)

Dragging something dead up a tree is different to something in a tree poking at you with a stick or kicking at you, and again, it places your head away from the animal and th animal has to endanger its head to get close, whilst also hanging on. It’s not ideal I just think it increases your survival odds.

unless there is more than one animal and it just needs to knock you out for its mate

Arts said:

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

larger bears will just try to knock the tree over…

other predators mentioned jaguars will take their prey into a tree to eat.. so you are just helping them :)

Dragging something dead up a tree is different to something in a tree poking at you with a stick or kicking at you, and again, it places your head away from the animal and th animal has to endanger its head to get close, whilst also hanging on. It’s not ideal I just think it increases your survival odds.

unless there is more than one animal and it just needs to knock you out for its mate

Of course, you can just keep changing the scenario, but as a general principle for the reasons I outlined I think it would be a better option. And certainly I think safer at night where your vision is compromised and an animal can be onto you before you know it.

Astronauts did extensive survival training just in case they landed somewhere other than intended. One of the things they were taught was to stay inside the capsule at night for protection against wolves.

We need a volunteer to do a demonstration up a tree.

Arts said:

but quite frankly, I’d be the first one to die in a survival situation.. unless I ever crash on a snowy mountain with a football team.. I know what to do then

I choose to read that with the meant interpretation.

;-)

party_pants said:

Astronauts did extensive survival training just in case they landed somewhere other than intended. One of the things they were taught was to stay inside the capsule at night for protection against wolves.

handy i guess if you crash on the Earth.

:-)

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

AwesomeO said:

Dragging something dead up a tree is different to something in a tree poking at you with a stick or kicking at you, and again, it places your head away from the animal and th animal has to endanger its head to get close, whilst also hanging on. It’s not ideal I just think it increases your survival odds.

unless there is more than one animal and it just needs to knock you out for its mate

Of course, you can just keep changing the scenario, but as a general principle for the reasons I outlined I think it would be a better option. And certainly I think safer at night where your vision is compromised and an animal can be onto you before you know it.

well, I don’t know what to tell you except that very experienced people in this area have told me different things to what Moll is saying.. in certain situations etc and so on

Arts said:

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

unless there is more than one animal and it just needs to knock you out for its mate

Of course, you can just keep changing the scenario, but as a general principle for the reasons I outlined I think it would be a better option. And certainly I think safer at night where your vision is compromised and an animal can be onto you before you know it.

well, I don’t know what to tell you except that very experienced people in this area have told me different things to what Moll is saying.. in certain situations etc and so on

Were they opining that climbing a tree was the worst thing to do and reduces your survival chances? In those sort of situations all you can do is increase the odds to yourself.

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

AwesomeO said:

Of course, you can just keep changing the scenario, but as a general principle for the reasons I outlined I think it would be a better option. And certainly I think safer at night where your vision is compromised and an animal can be onto you before you know it.

well, I don’t know what to tell you except that very experienced people in this area have told me different things to what Moll is saying.. in certain situations etc and so on

Were they opining that climbing a tree was the worst thing to do and reduces your survival chances? In those sort of situations all you can do is increase the odds to yourself.

they said that should you encounter a brown bear or grizzly bear, climbing a tree will not help, you either back away slowly or try to outrun someone you are with

Are you mistakenly thinking that I advocate running up trees to escape predators? I neither said not implied that. Read again what I originally wrote.

Arts said:

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

well, I don’t know what to tell you except that very experienced people in this area have told me different things to what Moll is saying.. in certain situations etc and so on

Were they opining that climbing a tree was the worst thing to do and reduces your survival chances? In those sort of situations all you can do is increase the odds to yourself.

they said that should you encounter a brown bear or grizzly bear, climbing a tree will not help, you either back away slowly or try to outrun someone you are with

What about if you ran toward it flailing your arms and screaming? I wouldn’t like to try it but the bear might be thinking WTF and decide you might be dangerous or at least something it has never experienced and might be wary.

Arts said:

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

well, I don’t know what to tell you except that very experienced people in this area have told me different things to what Moll is saying.. in certain situations etc and so on

Were they opining that climbing a tree was the worst thing to do and reduces your survival chances? In those sort of situations all you can do is increase the odds to yourself.

they said that should you encounter a brown bear or grizzly bear, climbing a tree will not help, you either back away slowly or try to outrun someone you are with

You’re not saying anything new. We all know that. I di not either advocate or imply that one should climb a tree after encountering a bear.

mollwollfumble said:

Are you mistakenly thinking that I advocate running up trees to escape predators? I neither said not implied that. Read again what I originally wrote.

Yes been a bit of a shift, I was thinking more about a safe (or less dangerous) harbour might be camped up a tree and not sleeping on the ground for instance.

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

AwesomeO said:

Were they opining that climbing a tree was the worst thing to do and reduces your survival chances? In those sort of situations all you can do is increase the odds to yourself.

they said that should you encounter a brown bear or grizzly bear, climbing a tree will not help, you either back away slowly or try to outrun someone you are with

What about if you ran toward it flailing your arms and screaming? I wouldn’t like to try it but the bear might be thinking WTF and decide you might be dangerous or at least something it has never experienced and might be wary.

and if it didn’t run at least it would be a quicker death for you.

;-)

Divine Angel said:

(haven’t read the whole thread) Flint for making fire?

I’m glad I read this far because I was also going to suggest flint. Although Bear Grylls would throw away the soap, I would include it (I have suggested soap as the #1 invention).

ChrispenEvan said:

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

they said that should you encounter a brown bear or grizzly bear, climbing a tree will not help, you either back away slowly or try to outrun someone you are with

What about if you ran toward it flailing your arms and screaming? I wouldn’t like to try it but the bear might be thinking WTF and decide you might be dangerous or at least something it has never experienced and might be wary.

and if it didn’t run at least it would be a quicker death for you.

;-)

SPARTA!!!!

AwesomeO said:

Arts said:

AwesomeO said:

Were they opining that climbing a tree was the worst thing to do and reduces your survival chances? In those sort of situations all you can do is increase the odds to yourself.

they said that should you encounter a brown bear or grizzly bear, climbing a tree will not help, you either back away slowly or try to outrun someone you are with

What about if you ran toward it flailing your arms and screaming? I wouldn’t like to try it but the bear might be thinking WTF and decide you might be dangerous or at least something it has never experienced and might be wary.

I think the take home message is that basically you are screwed with the bigger types of bears… it might be why American carry guns. On the day I was starting the hike they called it off because there had been a bear spotted in the area (much like they called off the triathalon swim because a shark had been spotted) the next day we were allowed to go… I mean there are still bears around, but they had moved on from the walking trail…

AwesomeO said:

mollwollfumble said:

Are you mistakenly thinking that I advocate running up trees to escape predators? I neither said not implied that. Read again what I originally wrote.

Yes been a bit of a shift, I was thinking more about a safe (or less dangerous) harbour might be camped up a tree and not sleeping on the ground for instance.

the survivalists do advocate sleeping up off the ground

Has anyone mentioned beer as yet?

there has been a bit of creep in the OP scenario.

Bit of food
water
shelter
basic first aid kit
insect repellent (area dependent)

Don’t really need much more.

if you can drop that then you can drop more if needed. look at weather so you can plan future drops if necessary and adjusted quantities to suit.

sibeen said:

Has anyone mentioned beer as yet?

alcohol has been mentioned but rejected as superfluous to requirements.

KJW said:

Divine Angel said:

(haven’t read the whole thread) Flint for making fire?

I’m glad I read this far because I was also going to suggest flint. Although Bear Grylls would throw away the soap, I would include it (I have suggested soap as the #1 invention).

Flint makes sense.

I was thinking of a cigarette lighter with a long handle to minimise the risk of being burnt at the same time as having enough hear to start kindling that isn’t completely dry.

Piezoelectric can be more reliable than flint but tends to be placed inside a container that may have more difficulty getting close enough to the kindling.

sibeen said:

Has anyone mentioned beer as yet?

I’d need some mildly strong cannabis in my survival kit.

sibeen said:

Has anyone mentioned beer as yet?

Briefly, as an alternative source of nutrition.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

Has anyone mentioned beer as yet?

alcohol has been mentioned but rejected as superfluous to requirements.

Excuse me?

I mean I understand all those words, but just not in the jumbled order they’ve been used in.

sibeen said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

Has anyone mentioned beer as yet?

alcohol has been mentioned but rejected as superfluous to requirements.

Excuse me?

I mean I understand all those words, but just not in the jumbled order they’ve been used in.

the reason is that if we drop beer then the cans will be all fizzy. plus you’d need and esky and some ice. then pretzels. probably want a fag.

Tau.Neutrino said:

sibeen said:

Has anyone mentioned beer as yet?

I’d need some mildly strong cannabis in my survival kit.

you’d probably eat the rations before time

sibeen said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

Has anyone mentioned beer as yet?

alcohol has been mentioned but rejected as superfluous to requirements.

Excuse me?

I mean I understand all those words, but just not in the jumbled order they’ve been used in.

Alcohol, the cause of and solution to, all of life’s problems.

Our “maroned” survival kit recipients would require pre-delivery of a drug interaction checker.

AwesomeO said:

What about if you ran toward it flailing your arms and screaming?

We really need someone to test this out. I can think of a few candidates.

Speedy said:

Our “maroned” survival kit recipients would require pre-delivery of a drug interaction checker.

somewhere we got lost on survival kit and things that would make us happy to survive

Tau.Neutrino said:

sibeen said:

Has anyone mentioned beer as yet?

I’d need some mildly strong cannabis in my survival kit.

To compose a survival mind-map?

ChrispenEvan said:

there has been a bit of creep in the OP scenario.

Bit of food
water
shelter
basic first aid kit
insect repellent (area dependent)

Don’t really need much more.

if you can drop that then you can drop more if needed. look at weather so you can plan future drops if necessary and adjusted quantities to suit.

I’ve said far more than a basic first aid kit. As much medical equipment as you can cram into the package, even if it means leaving out some of the food. Nobody is going to starve to death in that short time, but many could die without adequate medical attention.

To shelter I’ve added rope, harness, duct tape, a bit of warm clothing, torch, GPS, compass, and someone else added two-way radio. I forgot to say map, they need a map.

Add to food a single set of eating equipment, fire-making equipment.

mollwollfumble said:

ChrispenEvan said:

there has been a bit of creep in the OP scenario.

Bit of food
water
shelter
basic first aid kit
insect repellent (area dependent)

Don’t really need much more.

if you can drop that then you can drop more if needed. look at weather so you can plan future drops if necessary and adjusted quantities to suit.

I’ve said far more than a basic first aid kit. As much medical equipment as you can cram into the package, even if it means leaving out some of the food. Nobody is going to starve to death in that short time, but many could die without adequate medical attention.

To shelter I’ve added rope, harness, duct tape, a bit of warm clothing, torch, GPS, compass, and someone else added two-way radio. I forgot to say map, they need a map.

Add to food a single set of eating equipment, fire-making equipment.

no point in extensive first aid gear if no one knows how to use it.

Speedy said:

Our “maroned” survival kit recipients would require pre-delivery of a drug interaction checker.

It’s called a “piece of paper”. Probably a pencil would help too.

Has anyone given any thought to adding a distress flare?

mollwollfumble said:

Speedy said:

Our “maroned” survival kit recipients would require pre-delivery of a drug interaction checker.

It’s called a “piece of paper”. Probably a pencil would help too.

Has anyone given any thought to adding a distress flare?

If they are dropping supplies they know where you are.

> no point in extensive first aid gear if no one knows how to use it.

He’ll yes. Name me a single piece of first aid gear that nobody knows how to use. There isn’t any. If there was then it wouldn’t be first aid equipment.

Even an idiot knows what medication they regularly take in order to survive in normal life. A diabetic who takes insulin knows how to take insulin, etc.

What makes you think there are no doctors or paramedics onboard that crashed aircraft or whatever?

mollwollfumble said:

Speedy said:

Our “maroned” survival kit recipients would require pre-delivery of a drug interaction checker.

It’s called a “piece of paper”. Probably a pencil would help too.

Has anyone given any thought to adding a distress flare?

IMHO, with maps and a long list of medications, you’re delivering a suicide kit to people who may not be thinking rationally.

> If they are dropping supplies they know where you are.

No they don’t. They know where you were.

And if the two way radio fails then a flare might be the only communication method.

mollwollfumble said:

> If they are dropping supplies they know where you are.

No they don’t. They know where you were.

And if the two way radio fails then a flare might be the only communication method.

Well if rescuers know where you are and dropping supplies you would be a bit of a mug to move.

• Well if rescuers know where you are and dropping supplies you would be a bit of a mug to move.

What if you are marooned on a raft?

furious said:

• Well if rescuers know where you are and dropping supplies you would be a bit of a mug to move.

What if you are marooned on a raft?

So it was water bears before?

mollwollfumble said:

> no point in extensive first aid gear if no one knows how to use it.

He’ll yes. Name me a single piece of first aid gear that nobody knows how to use. There isn’t any. If there was then it wouldn’t be first aid equipment.

Even an idiot knows what medication they regularly take in order to survive in normal life. A diabetic who takes insulin knows how to take insulin, etc.

What makes you think there are no doctors or paramedics onboard that crashed aircraft or whatever?

because i looked at the passenger list. no doctors or paramedics listed.

How to apply a snake bite bandage. few would know the correct way. same with tourniquet. Plus your first aid kit is more extensive so more knowledge would be needed.

> IMHO, with maps and a long list of medications, you’re delivering a suicide kit to people who may not be thinking rationally.

IMHO the people who are in need of rescuing will have a far better idea of what medical attention they need than a beaurocrat hundreds of km away.

I would add some honey to the food part of the survival kit.

• So it was water bears before?

Polar bears and your raft is an ice flow…

furious said:

• Well if rescuers know where you are and dropping supplies you would be a bit of a mug to move.

What if you are marooned on a raft?

then you’d drop an epirb or a strobe.

> Well if rescuers know where you are and dropping supplies you would be a bit of a mug to move.

You guys are starting to make me angry. That’s a load of bull, too.

• I would add some honey to the food part of the survival kit.

To give to the bears?

With you guys fussing about what goes in this kit I think the survivor is well and truly dead by now.

AwesomeO said:

furious said:

• Well if rescuers know where you are and dropping supplies you would be a bit of a mug to move.

What if you are marooned on a raft?

So it was water bears before?

the most ferocious of all…

• You guys are starting to make me angry.

You’re over thinking it…

ChrispenEvan said:

mollwollfumble said:

> no point in extensive first aid gear if no one knows how to use it.

He’ll yes. Name me a single piece of first aid gear that nobody knows how to use. There isn’t any. If there was then it wouldn’t be first aid equipment.

Even an idiot knows what medication they regularly take in order to survive in normal life. A diabetic who takes insulin knows how to take insulin, etc.

What makes you think there are no doctors or paramedics onboard that crashed aircraft or whatever?

because i looked at the passenger list. no doctors or paramedics listed.

How to apply a snake bite bandage. few would know the correct way. same with tourniquet. Plus your first aid kit is more extensive so more knowledge would be needed.

yes, if everyone knew about first aid there’d be no need for classes

you hear of stranded people over here in the west. they get found and sometimes get water and some food dropped to them. that’s about it.

ChrispenEvan said:

then you’d drop an epirb or a strobe.

Is that like dropping a beat in the rap music that is so popular these days?

kii said:

With you guys fussing about what goes in this kit I think the survivor is well and truly dead by now.

ahhhh so we need some embalming fluids in the first aid pack.

> same with tourniquet

Idiot. Even I would know how to tie a tourniquet. And my knowledge of first aid is negligible.

kii said:

With you guys fussing about what goes in this kit I think the survivor is well and truly dead by now.

for the OP situation it’s been established that you really only need water and some warmth until rescue.. but we have moved on from that.

Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

then you’d drop an epirb or a strobe.

Is that like dropping a beat in the rap music that is so popular these days?

well entertainment will take their minds off the dire predicament they have got themselves into.

mollwollfumble said:

> Well if rescuers know where you are and dropping supplies you would be a bit of a mug to move.

You guys are starting to make me angry. That’s a load of bull, too.

No need to get angry on my account. I think if the authoritah know where you are ypu are better off staying where you are. That is of course provisional that there are no bushfires bearing down on you, rabid packs of bears, deliverance style hillbillies etc etc.

Witty Rejoinder said:

ChrispenEvan said:

then you’d drop an epirb or a strobe.

Is that like dropping a beat in the rap music that is so popular these days?

distraction is a good technique to use for survival

• distraction is a good technique to use for survival

Yeah, you don’t need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun your companions…

mollwollfumble said:

> same with tourniquet

Idiot. Even I would know how to tie a tourniquet. And my knowledge of first aid is negligible.

LOL, yeah. so give us the correct procedure for using one?

furious said:

• distraction is a good technique to use for survival

Yeah, you don’t need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun your companions…

you can spend your down time figuring out ways to do that.. maybe a bit of agility training

Arts said:

kii said:

With you guys fussing about what goes in this kit I think the survivor is well and truly dead by now.

for the OP situation it’s been established that you really only need water and some warmth until rescue.. but we have moved on from that.

No we fucking haven’t. And that is pure bull. Anybody who only needs water and some warmth doesn’t need an air-drop survival kit in the first place.

Arts said:

kii said:

With you guys fussing about what goes in this kit I think the survivor is well and truly dead by now.

for the OP situation it’s been established that you really only need water and some warmth until rescue.. but we have moved on from that.

Yeah, but that’s when the arguing started and now we have bears and beer and tourniquets. Always a bad combo.

some expert advice on the use of tourniquets.

http://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/tourniquets/

mollwollfumble said:

Arts said:

kii said:

With you guys fussing about what goes in this kit I think the survivor is well and truly dead by now.

for the OP situation it’s been established that you really only need water and some warmth until rescue.. but we have moved on from that.

No we fucking haven’t. And that is pure bull. Anybody who only needs water and some warmth doesn’t need an air-drop survival kit in the first place.

moll.. calm down. Op said “A shot -term survival kit, able to be air-dropped, to sustain survivors on the ground for a day or two before real rescue can be organised – say in the aftermath of natural disasters or people stranded in remote locations.”

two days tops before rescue.. they know your location, they know you’re ok…

• No we fucking haven’t. And that is pure bull. Anybody who only needs water and some warmth doesn’t need an air-drop survival kit in the first place.

I think your survival kit also needs some bex…

furious said:

• No we fucking haven’t. And that is pure bull. Anybody who only needs water and some warmth doesn’t need an air-drop survival kit in the first place.

I think your survival kit also needs some bex…

and an air mattress. and tea bags.

I’ve loved this video from the moment I saw it… though it does show basic rations for a few days need

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuM-EAnor4I

furious said:

• No we fucking haven’t. And that is pure bull. Anybody who only needs water and some warmth doesn’t need an air-drop survival kit in the first place.

I think your survival kit also needs some bex…

Plus a cuppa tea. So we now need a good tea pot AND some loose leaf tea. Don’t forget the tea strainer, and a dash of milk or would one prefer lemon?. Porcelain cups or a mug? Sugar?

kii said:

furious said:

• No we fucking haven’t. And that is pure bull. Anybody who only needs water and some warmth doesn’t need an air-drop survival kit in the first place.

I think your survival kit also needs some bex…

Plus a cuppa tea. So we now need a good tea pot AND some loose leaf tea. Don’t forget the tea strainer, and a dash of milk or would one prefer lemon?. Porcelain cups or a mug? Sugar?

as long as it wasn’t earl grey!

Arts said:

I’ve loved this video from the moment I saw it… though it does show basic rations for a few days need

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuM-EAnor4I

Knowing my luck I’d have one leg hanging out the side and it would be caught in the steel trapdoor. Plus what about the cats that sleep on my feet?

How come other people have such neat lives?

• How come other people have such neat lives?

No cats…

furious said:

• How come other people have such neat lives?

No cats…

You need a cat to scare away the mice… and as it happens some chickens.

are matches in the Survival kit?

• are matches in the Survival kit?

Flint…

ChrispenEvan said:

kii said:

furious said:

• No we fucking haven’t. And that is pure bull. Anybody who only needs water and some warmth doesn’t need an air-drop survival kit in the first place.

I think your survival kit also needs some bex…

Plus a cuppa tea. So we now need a good tea pot AND some loose leaf tea. Don’t forget the tea strainer, and a dash of milk or would one prefer lemon?. Porcelain cups or a mug? Sugar?

as long as it wasn’t earl grey!

some English Breakfast Teabags
and some pre toasted bread
and some marmalade

furious said:

• are matches in the Survival kit?

Flint…

because anyone knows how to start a fire.

Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

kii said:

Plus a cuppa tea. So we now need a good tea pot AND some loose leaf tea. Don’t forget the tea strainer, and a dash of milk or would one prefer lemon?. Porcelain cups or a mug? Sugar?

as long as it wasn’t earl grey!

some English Breakfast Teabags
and some pre toasted bread
and some marmalade

No toast. They’re lying down after the Bex and the toast might choke them

Dagnabit, photobucket is malfunctioning.

A permanent communication channel would be the most important of all things in the airdrop. More important than water and medicines.

I’m thinking of everything from the Banda Aceh tsunami where air drops would support 200,000 survivors to Vale John Clarke where it would save only one life.

The more I think about this, the more I think of specific airdrop things that may be useful in specific cases, such as car parts and petrol, an outboard motor, life jacket, a machette, an airhorn, hippo repellent (or instructions on how to avoid hippo injuries), wearable blood pressure and heartbeat monitor, motorbike, crampons, oxygen.

But let’s think about medical conditions that may be fatal in three days and separate them into three categories: preexisting conditions or susceptibilities, conditions developing in the week(s) before the airdrop, and traumatic injuries.

Pre-existing

Urinary failure
Kidney failure
Heart failure
Blood clots / angina
Lung failure
Lameness
Diabetes
Cancer
Stroke
Neurosis
Depression
Psychosis
Pregnancy
Appendicitis
Stones (gall/bladder/kidney)
Hernia
Infirmity / dementia

Over a week
Sepsis
Fever
Heat stroke
Dehydration
Vomiting
Poisoning through skin
Bites
Diarrhea
Constipation
Hypothermia
Pneumonia
Chronic pain

Traumatic
Broken bones
Cuts
Internal bleeding
Amputation
Paralysis
Dislocations
Extreme Pain
Crush injuries
Brain injury
Burns
Blindness
Deafness
Severed tendons
Shock
Depression
Lung injury
Perforated bowel

Unless you specifically know that some of these are not present among the survivors to receive the airdrop, include sufficient medicines to treat them all (assuming those with pre-existing conditions are already on medication) BUT only enough for one person and only one medicine of each type. Dosage and usage clearly on each medicine. Allow the survivors on the ground to perform a triage to decide who if anyone gets which medicine. On arrival the rescue party will collect all unused medicines and treatments and track who has used what.

Over a period of three days or so we can ignore drug interactions, and addiction.

mollwollfumble said:

Dagnabit, photobucket is malfunctioning.

A permanent communication channel would be the most important of all things in the airdrop. More important than water and medicines.

I’m thinking of everything from the Banda Aceh tsunami where air drops would support 200,000 survivors to Vale John Clarke where it would save only one life.

The more I think about this, the more I think of specific airdrop things that may be useful in specific cases, such as car parts and petrol, an outboard motor, life jacket, a machette, an airhorn, hippo repellent (or instructions on how to avoid hippo injuries), wearable blood pressure and heartbeat monitor, motorbike, crampons, oxygen.

But let’s think about medical conditions that may be fatal in three days and separate them into three categories: preexisting conditions or susceptibilities, conditions developing in the week(s) before the airdrop, and traumatic injuries.

Pre-existing

Urinary failure
Kidney failure
Heart failure
Blood clots / angina
Lung failure
Lameness
Diabetes
Cancer
Stroke
Neurosis
Depression
Psychosis
Pregnancy
Appendicitis
Stones (gall/bladder/kidney)
Hernia
Infirmity / dementia

Over a week
Sepsis
Fever
Heat stroke
Dehydration
Vomiting
Poisoning through skin
Bites
Diarrhea
Constipation
Hypothermia
Pneumonia
Chronic pain

Traumatic
Broken bones
Cuts
Internal bleeding
Amputation
Paralysis
Dislocations
Extreme Pain
Crush injuries
Brain injury
Burns
Blindness
Deafness
Severed tendons
Shock
Depression
Lung injury
Perforated bowel

Unless you specifically know that some of these are not present among the survivors to receive the airdrop, include sufficient medicines to treat them all (assuming those with pre-existing conditions are already on medication) BUT only enough for one person and only one medicine of each type. Dosage and usage clearly on each medicine. Allow the survivors on the ground to perform a triage to decide who if anyone gets which medicine. On arrival the rescue party will collect all unused medicines and treatments and track who has used what.

Over a period of three days or so we can ignore drug interactions, and addiction.

Sounds like you’ll encourage a black market by dropping drugs and leaving it to the plebs to dole out as they see (un)fit.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

Has anyone mentioned beer as yet?

alcohol has been mentioned but rejected as superfluous to requirements.

Plus it might kill ‘em quicker.

“…alcohol influences thermoregulation so that body core temperature is lowered not only by automatic mechanisms (sweating and skin vasodilation) but also behaviorally. These results suggest that decreases in body temperature after alcohol drinking are not secondary to skin vasodilation, a well-known effect of alcohol, but rather result from a decrease in the regulated body temperature evidenced by the coordinated modulation of various effectors of thermoregulation and sensation.”

http://www.alcoholjournal.org/article/S0741-8329(05)00150-3/fulltext

revolver 100 rounds and explanation leaflet

torch with red filter if need be

knife 6 inch

2 L water

2 large ready to eat meals ( just rip top off and eat) 1 spoon

pack of anti biotic pills and eye/ ear drops

6 body builder protein bars

2 packets of dehydration powder ( drink from packet)

disinfecting wipes and plasters/ bandages

silvery t shirt and pants to be worn under clothing to retain tactical camouflage

disinfecting camouflage cream

gloves (you can cut the finger tips out if its hot weather)

black PVC tape

basic radio distress beacon

belt

string

wookiemeister said:

revolver 100 rounds and explanation leaflet

torch with red filter if need be

knife 6 inch

2 L water

2 large ready to eat meals ( just rip top off and eat) 1 spoon

pack of anti biotic pills and eye/ ear drops

6 body builder protein bars

2 packets of dehydration powder ( drink from packet)

disinfecting wipes and plasters/ bandages

silvery t shirt and pants to be worn under clothing to retain tactical camouflage

disinfecting camouflage cream

gloves (you can cut the finger tips out if its hot weather)

black PVC tape

basic radio distress beacon

belt

string

just returned from Syria Wookie?

PermeateFree said:

wookiemeister said:

revolver 100 rounds and explanation leaflet

torch with red filter if need be

knife 6 inch

2 L water

2 large ready to eat meals ( just rip top off and eat) 1 spoon

pack of anti biotic pills and eye/ ear drops

6 body builder protein bars

2 packets of dehydration powder ( drink from packet)

disinfecting wipes and plasters/ bandages

silvery t shirt and pants to be worn under clothing to retain tactical camouflage

disinfecting camouflage cream

gloves (you can cut the finger tips out if its hot weather)

black PVC tape

basic radio distress beacon

belt

string

just returned from Syria Wookie?

AK 47 with 4X sight 9 mags loaded

rifle cleaning kit with WD40 with sponge

wookiemeister said:

revolver 100 rounds and explanation leaflet

torch with red filter if need be

knife 6 inch

2 L water

2 large ready to eat meals ( just rip top off and eat) 1 spoon

pack of anti biotic pills and eye/ ear drops

6 body builder protein bars

2 packets of dehydration powder ( drink from packet)

disinfecting wipes and plasters/ bandages

silvery t shirt and pants to be worn under clothing to retain tactical camouflage

disinfecting camouflage cream

gloves (you can cut the finger tips out if its hot weather)

black PVC tape

basic radio distress beacon

belt

string

you are slipping wookie…

you forgot:

1 x ACME drone

PermeateFree said:

just returned from Syria Wookie?

Amazon out parcels, actually.

stumpy_seahorse said:

wookiemeister said:

revolver 100 rounds and explanation leaflet

torch with red filter if need be

knife 6 inch

2 L water

2 large ready to eat meals ( just rip top off and eat) 1 spoon

pack of anti biotic pills and eye/ ear drops

6 body builder protein bars

2 packets of dehydration powder ( drink from packet)

disinfecting wipes and plasters/ bandages

silvery t shirt and pants to be worn under clothing to retain tactical camouflage

disinfecting camouflage cream

gloves (you can cut the finger tips out if its hot weather)

black PVC tape

basic radio distress beacon

belt

string

you are slipping wookie…

you forgot:

1 x ACME drone

you’ve got everything you need if theres a fight or a dangerous animal/ terrorist attacks you

gloves on your hands reduces further injury to your hands and stops dirt/ infection – you can crush an anti biotic pill and sprinkle it into your gloves to stop further infection – if you have been dropped this pack the chances are you are already injured in some way – your hands often bear the brunt of any survival situation

string can repair shoes

i forgot to include a poncho for water proofing for body / tent

PermeateFree said:

wookiemeister said:

revolver 100 rounds and explanation leaflet

torch with red filter if need be

knife 6 inch

2 L water

2 large ready to eat meals ( just rip top off and eat) 1 spoon

pack of anti biotic pills and eye/ ear drops

6 body builder protein bars

2 packets of dehydration powder ( drink from packet)

disinfecting wipes and plasters/ bandages

silvery t shirt and pants to be worn under clothing to retain tactical camouflage

disinfecting camouflage cream

gloves (you can cut the finger tips out if its hot weather)

black PVC tape

basic radio distress beacon

belt

string

just returned from Syria Wookie?

I just fell from the mother ship
Outhere brothers about to rip it on another tip

you wipe yourself from head to toe with the disinfecting wipes and clean wounds, bandages can be applied

the poncho can be spread above your head to act as a shelter if its raining for you to clean yourself and your weapon, sort yourself out to holster knife and revolver

you

don’t bother with lighters – you don’t need it, it attracts attention. you could have insect repellent wipes i guess

One bucket, one bottle of lotion

so you’d need a hat and insect repellent as well

i don’t go anywhere without i always look on curiously as people with me sweat it out or get their heads wet in the rain

i will always have a water proof top as well

wookiemeister said:

i don’t go anywhere without a hat, i always look on curiously as people with me sweat it out or get their heads wet in the rain

i will always have a water proof top as well

wookiemeister said:

i don’t go anywhere without i always look on curiously as people with me sweat it out or get their heads wet in the rain

i will always have a water proof top as well

once again?

maybe in english this time..

stumpy_seahorse said:

wookiemeister said:

i don’t go anywhere without i always look on curiously as people with me sweat it out or get their heads wet in the rain

i will always have a water proof top as well

once again?

maybe in english this time..

read the revision right after it instead of being facetious

What would you have needed to airdrop to save the life of Vale John Clarke?

• What would you have needed to airdrop to save the life of Vale John Clarke?

The cup of Christ…

mollwollfumble said:

What would you have needed to airdrop to save the life of Vale John Clarke?

A cardiology ICU.

poikilotherm said:

mollwollfumble said:

What would you have needed to airdrop to save the life of Vale John Clarke?

A cardiology ICU.

If you got there before he set off, you could drop a big sign saying “Do not go on this hike”

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

mollwollfumble said:

What would you have needed to airdrop to save the life of Vale John Clarke?

A cardiology ICU.

If you got there before he set off, you could drop a big sign saying “Do not go on this hike”

or a sign reading Dead Man Walking.

I’m led to believe that he was probably gone before he hit the ground. There was a doctor in the walking group. No I don’t have first hand, I have about third hand knowledge.

buffy said:

I’m led to believe that he was probably gone before he hit the ground. There was a doctor in the walking group. No I don’t have first hand, I have about third hand knowledge.

How’s they diagnose that then?

I presume no pulse or breathing immediately. It’s not like it would have taken much time at all for the group to get to him. I assume CPR was administered.

buffy said:

I presume no pulse or breathing immediately. It’s not like it would have taken much time at all for the group to get to him. I assume CPR was administered.

I’ll admit to still being fairly stunned with how mine turned out. One second talking to the nice ambulance woman, the next waking up to a room full of people. None of this grabbing at chest histrionics. It was just lights out.

poikilotherm said:

mollwollfumble said:

What would you have needed to airdrop to save the life of Vale John Clarke?

A cardiology ICU.

Dropped from a great height.. might need a neuro one too

Note the use of sanitary napkins and cornstarch for stopping bleeding in the following first aid kit (for donkeys and llamas).