Many people report having memories of dilemma formerly being spelt ‘dilemna’. They talk of being taught it in school, seeing it in dictionaries etc, and regard this “dilemma” thing as some newfangled nonsense. The trouble is that there are no dictionaries, new or old, with the “dilemna” spelling, and nor does it appear in textbooks or other published works.

http://dilemna.info/index.php

The Academical Explanation:
Philologists (language experts) have suggested that the Dilemna misspelling is an error that stretches back hundreds of years for the simple reason that our brains gloss over the error. At a quick glance the different spellings are easy to miss – ‘mm’ or ‘mn’ look very similar in some print.
Again at first thought this seems quite plausible although Dilemna spellers do generally report seeing the ‘Dilemma’ spelling as looking very wrong indeed.
However, more importantly, the N spelling was apparently taught to children without anyone spotting the error. A quite surprisingly large number report the same distinctive memory of being taught to pronounce it to themselves as DI-LEM-NA to help remember the ‘correct’ N spelling.
This would seem to infer that teachers themselves may have made the mistake and passed it on to pupils. Again it seems odd that this error wasn’t noticed, especially as it seems to have persisted over many generations and countries.

The Dilemna Twilight Zone Explanation:
Alternate universe enthusiast Marden Paul of Toronto put forward a theory several years ago that Dilemna people had all somehow crossed over into this parallel ‘Dilemma’ spelling universe and that’s why they feel discombobulated to discover that not only are they wrong but there’s also no trace of an N spelling anywhere in any dictionary in the history of this new universe!

Some of the comments are great:
http://dilemna.info/comments.php

(Feb 6, 2017) sierraview said: not mandela effect. I have a 100% visual memory of my vocab book, I am pretty sure it was 4th grade, spelling the word DILEMNA. I vividly remember things that I find out of the ordinary. This must be attributed to erroneous text books. If my school was still in business, and I didn’t live on the other side of the country, I would go to the office and ask to see the record of their textbook purchases (private school).

(Jan 27, 2017) Athan said: I asked my mom about it, and even she said it’s spelled DILEMNA. I know it’s always been dileMNa, but I don’t know why it suddenly changed to dileMMa.

(Jan 2, 2017) Tamara said:
@Nikita, There is no confusion as you stated, for those who know it as being spelled with an N. It is a fact, not confusion. I know this for sure.

(Jan 2, 2017) Tamara said:
I’m age 43, Dilemna was always, without a doubt, most definitely spelled with the N.
I’ve been a voracious reader and writer from age 4, and there is no doubt whatsoever..

(Oct 8, 2015) Naomi said: Dilemna is correct and 2 +2 = 4. There are many more glitches – search “Mandela Effect”. People have been reporting that maps look different – both on the internet and in old books. See if you notice any changes.

I certainly remember it being “dilemna” from my childhood, and remember being surprised to find that this was actually incorrect.

Bubblecar said:

I certainly remember it being “dilemna” from my childhood, and remember being surprised to find that this was actually incorrect.

Blimey.

Look up “dilemna” in Google Books. You’ll find it’s been used in print very many times.

Bubblecar said:

Look up “dilemna” in Google Books. You’ll find it’s been used in print very many times.

Yes, on the first page:

Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English …
And yet legions of people around the Englishspeaking world not only spell it “dilemna,”

Robert Hartwell Fiske’s Dictionary of Unendurable English: A … dilemna Misspelling of dilemma

But seriously yes, GBooks turns up around 200 hits for dilemna, and over a million hits for dilemma, basically the same ratio you’d expect for a misspelling. For instance, triangal also turns up around 200 hits.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

Look up “dilemna” in Google Books. You’ll find it’s been used in print very many times.

Yes, on the first page:

Origins of the Specious: Myths and Misconceptions of the English …
And yet legions of people around the Englishspeaking world not only spell it “dilemna,”

Robert Hartwell Fiske’s Dictionary of Unendurable English: A … dilemna Misspelling of dilemma

But seriously yes, GBooks turns up around 200 hits for dilemna, and over a million hits for dilemma, basically the same ratio you’d expect for a misspelling. For instance, triangal also turns up around 200 hits.

>and over a million hits for dilemma

…once you get past Page 62, it says it doesn’t return any hits. You can’t trust their quoted figures.

This is the first time I’ve seen that word. Though most likely I have seen it before but not noticed the ‘n’.

I’ve never heard of this before. I suspect Facebook fake news of some sort.

People clearly remember a movie from the 90s starring Sinbad about a genie… Which never existed. I assume such people slip into parallel universes at some point.

The 1.5 m’s work though, sorta shortens the mm and stops the a becoming are

I sorta recall it being written mn somewhere, it doesn’t seem wrong to me

never seen that. ever.

Since I have never noticed (or at least I don’t recall having noticed) the mn spelling before, I assumed this was a Yankee thing.

But then how do we account for Bubblecar?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Since I have never noticed (or at least I don’t recall having noticed) the mn spelling before, I assumed this was a Yankee thing.

But then how do we account for Bubblecar?

As for the yanks.. that all stems from damnation.

Seems it’s a rare error now, but was once quite common, and I suspect it was indeed simply due to the influence of primary school teachers who passed on the error themselves, perhaps over a few generations, with few of them actually bothering to look the word up.

Children tend to make note of words with seemingly anomalous spellings so that they remember them, so ironically it was probably often the more literate children who kept repeating this mistake.

Bubblecar said:

Seems it’s a rare error now, but was once quite common, and I suspect it was indeed simply due to the influence of primary school teachers who passed on the error themselves, perhaps over a few generations, with few of them actually bothering to look the word up.

Children tend to make note of words with seemingly anomalous spellings so that they remember them, so ironically it was probably often the more literate children who kept repeating this mistake.

comics. blame comics.

but then for me things written sdrawkcab look alright

I miss robadob.

roughbarked said:

Bubblecar said:

Seems it’s a rare error now, but was once quite common, and I suspect it was indeed simply due to the influence of primary school teachers who passed on the error themselves, perhaps over a few generations, with few of them actually bothering to look the word up.

Children tend to make note of words with seemingly anomalous spellings so that they remember them, so ironically it was probably often the more literate children who kept repeating this mistake.

comics. blame comics.

Shouldn’t think so. More likely teachers wrongly correcting children’s spelling.

The Internet says:

“This question is too basic; it can be definitively and permanently answered by a single link to a standard internet reference source designed specifically to find that type of information.”

So all of us who thought it was quite interesting have been firmly put in our place.

Divine Angel said:

I miss robadob.

he posts on the sssf fb page.

Bubblecar said:

Seems it’s a rare error now, but was once quite common, and I suspect it was indeed simply due to the influence of primary school teachers who passed on the error themselves, perhaps over a few generations, with few of them actually bothering to look the word up.

Children tend to make note of words with seemingly anomalous spellings so that they remember them, so ironically it was probably often the more literate children who kept repeating this mistake.

I think the double m tends to extend the a into are, inclining an improper pronunciation or too long. So mn makes sense to me, that way

ChrispenEvan said:

Divine Angel said:

I miss robadob.

he posts on the sssf fb page.

Wouldn’t we get a greater market value if we merged the two organisations?

Usage OED.

Note that dilemma is spelled with a double m in the middle, not as mn At its core, a dilemma is a situation in which a difficult choice has to be made between two or more alternatives (this is my dilemma: do I stay here for the job security, or do I risk it all for the chance of a better career?). More informally, dilemma can mean ‘a difficult situation or problem’ (as in the insoluble dilemma of adolescence). Some traditionalists object to this weakened use, but it is recorded as early as the first part of the 17th century, and is now widespread and generally acceptable.
—————

It would appear that it’s been giving lexicographers difficult choices on several fronts for many years.

transition said:

Bubblecar said:

Seems it’s a rare error now, but was once quite common, and I suspect it was indeed simply due to the influence of primary school teachers who passed on the error themselves, perhaps over a few generations, with few of them actually bothering to look the word up.

Children tend to make note of words with seemingly anomalous spellings so that they remember them, so ironically it was probably often the more literate children who kept repeating this mistake.

I think the double m tends to extend the a into are, inclining an improper pronunciation or too long. So mn makes sense to me, that way

I think we need more evidence before we can accept that lemna.

transition said:

Bubblecar said:

Seems it’s a rare error now, but was once quite common, and I suspect it was indeed simply due to the influence of primary school teachers who passed on the error themselves, perhaps over a few generations, with few of them actually bothering to look the word up.

Children tend to make note of words with seemingly anomalous spellings so that they remember them, so ironically it was probably often the more literate children who kept repeating this mistake.

I think the double m tends to extend the a into are, inclining an improper pronunciation or too long. So mn makes sense to me, that way

since when did ma become mare?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Since I have never noticed (or at least I don’t recall having noticed) the mn spelling before, I assumed this was a Yankee thing.

But then how do we account for Bubblecar?

Yeah but that’s the thing: it’s not a Yankee thing. It was never a thing, ever, anywhere.
Except in the memories of some people.

roughbarked said:

transition said:

Bubblecar said:

Seems it’s a rare error now, but was once quite common, and I suspect it was indeed simply due to the influence of primary school teachers who passed on the error themselves, perhaps over a few generations, with few of them actually bothering to look the word up.

Children tend to make note of words with seemingly anomalous spellings so that they remember them, so ironically it was probably often the more literate children who kept repeating this mistake.

I think the double m tends to extend the a into are, inclining an improper pronunciation or too long. So mn makes sense to me, that way

since when did ma become mare?

i’m a ceird wunt, but 2 x m is more than is needed and inclines the short a following toward are, well, for this hillbilly

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Since I have never noticed (or at least I don’t recall having noticed) the mn spelling before, I assumed this was a Yankee thing.

But then how do we account for Bubblecar?

Yeah but that’s the thing: it’s not a Yankee thing. It was never a thing, ever, anywhere.
Except in the memories of some people.

And when some of those people are school teachers, you can understand how the error became persistent in some sections of the population.

But for me it was only a childhood thing, I’m sure I was spelling it correctly by my teens :)

I reckon I’d correct someone if I saw them use ‘dilemna’

and then they’d tell me I was wrong, then I would say I don’t think I am, then they would link to a website where MILLIONS of qualified spellologists agree that dilemna is, in fact, correct and the rest of us are just sheeples who should OPEN OUR EYES! Then I’d have to unfollow them on facebook while they complain that if it was dilemma then we’d be able to see the wings.

The other “parallel universe” people are commenting on is the one in which the Berenstain bears were known as the Berenstein bears.

http://www.avclub.com/article/how-you-spell-berenstain-bears-could-be-proof-para-223615

Arts said:

I reckon I’d correct someone if I saw them use ‘dilemna’

and then they’d tell me I was wrong, then I would say I don’t think I am, then they would link to a website where MILLIONS of qualified spellologists agree that dilemna is, in fact, correct and the rest of us are just sheeples who should OPEN OUR EYES! Then I’d have to unfollow them on facebook while they complain that if it was dilemma then we’d be able to see the wings.

It’s starting to get serious now.

dilema looks alright to me too

so I reckon get rid of an m

transition said:

dilema looks alright to me too

so I reckon get rid of an m

You are suffering dilemia.

While others remember a universe where chartreuse was reddish, not greenish.
http://mandelaeffect.com/chartreuse-red-or-green/

dv said:

While others remember a universe where chartreuse was reddish, not greenish.
http://mandelaeffect.com/chartreuse-red-or-green/

And many Australians insist that maroon is pronounced “marone”.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

While others remember a universe where chartreuse was reddish, not greenish.
http://mandelaeffect.com/chartreuse-red-or-green/

And many Australians insist that maroon is pronounced “marone”.

We were maroned on the beach.
Nup, doesn’t sound right.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

While others remember a universe where chartreuse was reddish, not greenish.
http://mandelaeffect.com/chartreuse-red-or-green/

And many Australians insist that maroon is pronounced “marone”.

That’s an attested regional variation, mentioned in dictionaries, that is unrelated to this phenomenon.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

While others remember a universe where chartreuse was reddish, not greenish.
http://mandelaeffect.com/chartreuse-red-or-green/

And many Australians insist that maroon is pronounced “marone”.

That’s an attested regional variation, mentioned in dictionaries, that is unrelated to this phenomenon.

It is now.

maroon1 Pronunciation of maroon /məˈroʊn/ (say muh’rohn), Pronunciation of maroon /məˈrun/ (say muh’roohn)
noun 1. dark brownish red.

2. a firework exploding with a loud report, especially one used as a warning or distress signal.

–adjective 3. of a dark brownish red colour.

Usage: In Australian English the pronunciation /məˈroʊn/ is widely favoured over /məˈrun/ which is the accepted pronunciation elsewhere. One possible explanation for this pronunciation is hypercorrection, that is, /məˈroʊn/ was closer to the Italian or French, or /məˈrun/ seemed too much like a spelling pronunciation.

dv said:

maroon1 Pronunciation of maroon /məˈroʊn/ (say muh’rohn), Pronunciation of maroon /məˈrun/ (say muh’roohn)
noun 1. dark brownish red.

2. a firework exploding with a loud report, especially one used as a warning or distress signal.

–adjective 3. of a dark brownish red colour.

Usage: In Australian English the pronunciation /məˈroʊn/ is widely favoured over /məˈrun/ which is the accepted pronunciation elsewhere. One possible explanation for this pronunciation is hypercorrection, that is, /məˈroʊn/ was closer to the Italian or French, or /məˈrun/ seemed too much like a spelling pronunciation.

I’d say that’s similar in that it probably involved children being “corrected” if they pronounced it correctly.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

maroon1 Pronunciation of maroon /məˈroʊn/ (say muh’rohn), Pronunciation of maroon /məˈrun/ (say muh’roohn)
noun 1. dark brownish red.

2. a firework exploding with a loud report, especially one used as a warning or distress signal.

–adjective 3. of a dark brownish red colour.

Usage: In Australian English the pronunciation /məˈroʊn/ is widely favoured over /məˈrun/ which is the accepted pronunciation elsewhere. One possible explanation for this pronunciation is hypercorrection, that is, /məˈroʊn/ was closer to the Italian or French, or /məˈrun/ seemed too much like a spelling pronunciation.

I’d say that’s similar in that it probably involved children being “corrected” if they pronounced it correctly.

But dissimilar in that it is the standard pronunciation in Qld, rather than this one in a million thing like dilemna.

dv said:

While others remember a universe where chartreuse was reddish, not greenish.
http://mandelaeffect.com/chartreuse-red-or-green/

I suspect this may help us understand that our memories are not altogether reliable.

dv said:

this one in a million thing like dilemna.

Make up your mind, in the OP you said:

Many people report having memories of dilemma formerly being spelt ‘dilemna’.

Michael V said:

dv said:

While others remember a universe where chartreuse was reddish, not greenish.
http://mandelaeffect.com/chartreuse-red-or-green/

I suspect this may help us understand that our memories are not altogether reliable.

So you’re not down with this whole parallel universe thing.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

this one in a million thing like dilemna.

Make up your mind, in the OP you said:

Many people report having memories of dilemma formerly being spelt ‘dilemna’.

:-)

It is many, in absolute terms, but it is still a small fraction.

dv said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

While others remember a universe where chartreuse was reddish, not greenish.
http://mandelaeffect.com/chartreuse-red-or-green/

I suspect this may help us understand that our memories are not altogether reliable.

So you’re not down with this whole parallel universe thing.

Not in this manner.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

this one in a million thing like dilemna.

Make up your mind, in the OP you said:

Many people report having memories of dilemma formerly being spelt ‘dilemna’.

Over 7000 people is quite a lot.

Michael V said:

dv said:

Michael V said:

I suspect this may help us understand that our memories are not altogether reliable.

So you’re not down with this whole parallel universe thing.

Not in this manner.

This could lead to a spinoff thread on hypnotism and what science says about it.

FWIW my mum, who has read approximately eleventy billion books and is a crossword fanatic, has never seen “dilemna”.

Divine Angel said:

FWIW my mum, who has read approximately eleventy billion books and is a crossword fanatic, has never seen “dilemna”.

That’s about 7 books/sec (reading 24 hours/day)

How does she find time for the crosswords?

dv said:

maroon1 Pronunciation of maroon /məˈroʊn/ (say muh’rohn), Pronunciation of maroon /məˈrun/ (say muh’roohn)
noun 1. dark brownish red.

2. a firework exploding with a loud report, especially one used as a warning or distress signal.

–adjective 3. of a dark brownish red colour.

Usage: In Australian English the pronunciation /məˈroʊn/ is widely favoured over /məˈrun/ which is the accepted pronunciation elsewhere. One possible explanation for this pronunciation is hypercorrection, that is, /məˈroʊn/ was closer to the Italian or French, or /məˈrun/ seemed too much like a spelling pronunciation.

Just hope that you are never maroned on a dessert island.

Also she must be living in some alternate universe, because Google says that there are only 0.13 billion books that have yet been written.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Divine Angel said:

FWIW my mum, who has read approximately eleventy billion books and is a crossword fanatic, has never seen “dilemna”.

That’s about 7 books/sec (reading 24 hours/day)

How does she find time for the crosswords?

A tear in the time-space continuum.

I said approximately.

Hmm, don’t know whether this means much, but seems to indicate “dilemna” was once more common than it is today:

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=dilemna&year_start=1700&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cdilemna%3B%2Cc0

I am, generally, a terrible speller. On a computer it is easier because it tells me when I am wrong but when I resort to pen and paper I am left to my own devices. On more than one occasion I might have written dilemna and do recall seeing it being used…

The discussion has certainly made me amend my spell checker to allow dilemna.

I still think it is fake news.

buffy said:

I still think it is fake news.

So you haven’t read the thread?

As I said, I’m sure I was taught as a child that it was dilemna with a silent n, and if you check the comments link dv posted above, you’ll find many people were convinced of the same, some throughout their lives.

Even a French woman posted that she was taught to spell the French version (dilemme) with a silent n (dilemne) only to then find that no French dictionaries spell it that way – an exact parallel with the English situation.

dv said:

maroon1 Pronunciation of maroon /məˈroʊn/ (say muh’rohn), Pronunciation of maroon /məˈrun/ (say muh’roohn)
noun 1. dark brownish red.

2. a firework exploding with a loud report, especially one used as a warning or distress signal.

–adjective 3. of a dark brownish red colour.

Usage: In Australian English the pronunciation /məˈroʊn/ is widely favoured over /məˈrun/ which is the accepted pronunciation elsewhere. One possible explanation for this pronunciation is hypercorrection, that is, /məˈroʊn/ was closer to the Italian or French, or /məˈrun/ seemed too much like a spelling pronunciation.

Also a war, as in the slave rebellions in Jamaica.

I mean I accept that it is possible that some teachers taught the wrong spelling but people are certain that they saw it in their schoolbooks and dictionaries yet no such books have shown up.

• yet no such books have shown up

Because those books are in an alternative reality. Do try to keep up…

furious said:

• yet no such books have shown up

Because those books are in an alternative reality. Do try to keep up…

That’s my point …

dv said:

I mean I accept that it is possible that some teachers taught the wrong spelling but people are certain that they saw it in their schoolbooks and dictionaries yet no such books have shown up.

Recalling the exact sources of authority from childhood in such matters is doubtless difficult. But studious children do make a point of remembering abnormal rules such as silent letters and strange spellings, so as not to appear ignorant, which in this instance is of course ironic.

Forgive the Edwardian turn of phrase, I’m watching an episode of The Rivals of Sherlock Holmes.

dv said:

I mean I accept that it is possible that some teachers taught the wrong spelling but people are certain that they saw it in their schoolbooks and dictionaries yet no such books have shown up.

fake/false memories, happens with other things, so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

• so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

The word “retarded” is considered, by many, to be offensive…

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

I mean I accept that it is possible that some teachers taught the wrong spelling but people are certain that they saw it in their schoolbooks and dictionaries yet no such books have shown up.

fake/false memories, happens with other things, so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

But it’s not “retarded”, it’s peculiar, which is why people make a point of remembering to spell it that way. Until someone directs them to a dictionary :)

furious said:

• so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

The word “retarded” is considered, by many, to be offensive…

You don’t say.

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

I mean I accept that it is possible that some teachers taught the wrong spelling but people are certain that they saw it in their schoolbooks and dictionaries yet no such books have shown up.

fake/false memories, happens with other things, so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

Well, quite. People have fake memories of all kinds of things.

What’s rare is for many different people to have fake memories of the same thing. One person misremembering Gough Whitlam’s first name would be unremarkable. Thousands of people remembering that Gough Whitlam’s name was Craig would be remarkable.

• Thousands of people remembering that Gough Whitlam’s name was Craig would be remarkable.

His name was Craig? The people must be told…

furious said:

• Thousands of people remembering that Gough Whitlam’s name was Craig would be remarkable.

His name was Craig? The people must be told…

Smithers, use the memory ray.

• Smithers, use the memory ray.

Six Months from now:

Me: I remember reading somewhere that Gough Whitlam’s real name was Craig…

furious said:

• Thousands of people remembering that Gough Whitlam’s name was Craig would be remarkable.

His name was Craig? The people must be told…

His name was mistakenly recorded in Hansard as *cough * Whitlam, which gradually mutated into Gough, and he never bothered to change it. Unlike Sneeze Fraser, who had it promptly changed to Malcolm.

poikilotherm said:

furious said:

• so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

The word “retarded” is considered, by many, to be offensive…

You don’t say.

It needs to be redefined to mean people who are a combination of idiot and moron in the extreme

furious said:

• so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

The word “retarded” is considered, by many, to be offensive…

We should all make a solemm oath not to condemm the dilemna spelling as retarded. English spelling is damm difficult.

• It needs to be redefined to mean people who are a combination of idiot and moron in the extreme

Isn’t that what the word “Trump” is for?

The Rev Dodgson said:

furious said:

• so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

The word “retarded” is considered, by many, to be offensive…

We should all make a solemm oath not to condemm the dilemna spelling as retarded. English spelling is damm difficult.

That’s dumn

Cymek said:

poikilotherm said:

furious said:

• so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

The word “retarded” is considered, by many, to be offensive…

You don’t say.

It needs to be redefined to mean people who are a combination of idiot and moron in the extreme

Actually, it shows your age, autistic is the new retard these days.

• We should all make a solemm oath not to condemm the dilemna spelling as retarded. English spelling is damm difficult.

Good point. Well made…

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

furious said:

• so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

The word “retarded” is considered, by many, to be offensive…

We should all make a solemm oath not to condemm the dilemna spelling as retarded. English spelling is damm difficult.

That’s dumn

I swear that’s how my childhood dictionary spelt dumb…

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

furious said:

• so why not some retarded spelling of a word?

The word “retarded” is considered, by many, to be offensive…

We should all make a solemm oath not to condemm the dilemna spelling as retarded. English spelling is damm difficult.

That’s dumn

No dumner than dumb.

• No dumner than dumb.

Or maybe just happy…

furious said:

• It needs to be redefined to mean people who are a combination of idiot and moron in the extreme

Isn’t that what the word “Trump” is for?

Yeah I was thinking of him

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

I still think it is fake news.

So you haven’t read the thread?

I have, actually. I’d debate how many of the instances on the internet of people saying this are actually people. You could set this up pretty easily these days with the power of the internet.

Cymek said:

furious said:

• It needs to be redefined to mean people who are a combination of idiot and moron in the extreme

Isn’t that what the word “Trump” is for?

Yeah I was thinking of him

And of course some people still remember his name being spelt “Drumpf”.

buffy said:

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

I still think it is fake news.

So you haven’t read the thread?

I have, actually. I’d debate how many of the instances on the internet of people saying this are actually people. You could set this up pretty easily these days with the power of the internet.

Um, no. You’re being silly.

I’m like 90% certain that Bubblecar is a real person.

• And of course some people still remember his name being spelt “Drumpf”.

And he remembers thousands of people celebrating 9/11…

This is not a “new thing”. I was reading about the dilemma/dilemna dilemma some time ago.

dv said:

I’m like 90% certain that Bubblecar is a real person.

There probably is a real person who calls himself Bubblecar.

Whether the entity posting under that name in this thread is that person is another matter entirely.

Why make a Dilemma into a dilemna?

Seems a silly dilemma.

Bubblecar said:

This is not a “new thing”. I was reading about the dilemma/dilemna dilemma some time ago.

Or at least, that’s how you remember it…

Dilmah

buffy said:

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

I still think it is fake news.

So you haven’t read the thread?

I have, actually. I’d debate how many of the instances on the internet of people saying this are actually people. You could set this up pretty easily these days with the power of the internet.

Yeah the made up outrage is another one.

For a resolution on this issue Dial 3662…

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

Bubblecar said:

So you haven’t read the thread?

I have, actually. I’d debate how many of the instances on the internet of people saying this are actually people. You could set this up pretty easily these days with the power of the internet.

Um, no. You’re being silly.

Um, no, I’m not. There could easily be many, many fake entries on the internet to set up a ‘theory’

furious said:

For a resolution on this issue Dial 3662…

Dile m 4 ma der

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

This is not a “new thing”. I was reading about the dilemma/dilemna dilemma some time ago.

Or at least, that’s how you remember it…

The site you linked has been on the internet since at least 2007.

buffy said:

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

I have, actually. I’d debate how many of the instances on the internet of people saying this are actually people. You could set this up pretty easily these days with the power of the internet.

Um, no. You’re being silly.

Um, no, I’m not. There could easily be many, many fake entries on the internet to set up a ‘theory’

Um yes, you are. You’re completely discounting my contributions, for example, in favour of conspiracy junk.

A lot of people have memories of Trump saying he was going to drain the swamp.

Here’s another one:

The dilemna of spelling dilemma

http://northernplanets.blogspot.com.au/2007/08/dilemna-of-spelling-dilemma.html

Here’s a radio show about dillemna/dilemma, from 2008:

https://www.waywordradio.org/dilemma-vs-dilemna/

dv said:

A lot of people have memories of Trump saying he was going to drain the swamp.

Wasn’t that the lizard

Some of you may remember a regular here who has had three holidays to London, compiles “to see lists” based on tourist guides, loves museums, has been to the Natural History Museum, the Science Museum, Victoria and Albert Museum, the National Gallery and the Tate, the Cutty Sark out at Greenwich, the Armories at the Tower, the Jewel Tower, St Pauls. Basically this person has “done” London thoroughly, repeatedly. Talking about someone who reads broadly and greatly, someone who’s aware that the Elgin Marbles are in London, someone who knows that the Uruk Trough is in London etc. Until April 03, 2015, this person had never heard of The British Museum, to the point of suspecting that he or she was being pranked until he or she checked it out on the internet.

I think this fellow has correctly surmised that it’s basically a long-lived spelling variant that quite a number of people accepted as correct, but was not quite common enough to be accepted as such by lexicographers.

>A search of historical literature shows that in earlier times it was quite common and turned up in works by well-known authors. These are a few eighteenth-century examples:
In this Dilemna, as I was very pensive, I stept into the Cabin, and sat me down.
Robinson Crusoe, by Daniel Defoe, 1719.

The nation saw themselves reduced to a ridiculous dilemna upon their testimony.
The History of England, by Oliver Goldsmith, Vol 3, 1771.

There was a famous ancient Instance of this Case, wherein a Dilemna was retorted.
Logick, by Isaac Watts, 1772.

It even appears in a list of difficult three-syllable words in The Civil Service Spelling Book, by R Johnson, published in London in 1868. If this is a mistake left uncorrected at the proofing stage, it’s a particularly unfortunate one.
Modern reprints of old works usually “correct” the spelling, their proofreaders presumably taking it to be a printer’s error. However, there are so many old examples that it is difficult to write them off as a mass word blindness among printers and proofreaders.

It’s not just in English that the problem is known. In French it sometimes appears as dilemne instead of dilemme. Native French speakers have reported that they, too, were taught the wrong form. It is frequent enough that it appears in lists of common spelling mistakes. In French, it’s said to be the consequence of a false comparison with indemne.

I’ve not found any example of a spelling book or primer that has the dilemna version. Anyone who taught that form must have been perpetuating what they had learned without reference to any book. In view of the very large number of historical examples, it makes me wonder if the variant spelling has persisted in the language for many generations, unnoticed by dictionary makers or repeatedly dismissed as a simple error.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-dil1.htm

The phenomenon is known as The Mandela Effect.
(I had not heard of this, or any of this stuff, until yesterday)
http://consciouslifenews.com/nelson-mandela-didnt-die-prison-matters/1168775/#

If you remember seeing media coverage of Nelson Mandela having died in prison in the 1980s, and you’re wondering why he’s just this month been reported dead again, you’re in good company. Mandela is one of the most commonly discussed celebrities who has been seen alive after having been reported dead. When we personally witness disparities between events we remember having happened and what reliable physical evidence suggests has occurred, we might at first feel a sense of dissonance. Fortunately, we need not stay confused, since noticing the differences between our memories and evidence in our current reality allows us to gain valuable direct experience of how malleable reality can truly be. Recent scientific discoveries suggest it’s quite likely that both this so-called “Mandela Effect,” also known as the “Alive Again” phenomena, are not new, as shamans and spiritual teachers from every continent and age of humankind have described for millennia.

dv said:

Some of you may remember a regular here who has had three holidays to London, compiles “to see lists” based on tourist guides, loves museums, has been to the Natural History Museum, the Science Museum, Victoria and Albert Museum, the National Gallery and the Tate, the Cutty Sark out at Greenwich, the Armories at the Tower, the Jewel Tower, St Pauls. Basically this person has “done” London thoroughly, repeatedly. Talking about someone who reads broadly and greatly, someone who’s aware that the Elgin Marbles are in London, someone who knows that the Uruk Trough is in London etc. Until April 03, 2015, this person had never heard of The British Museum, to the point of suspecting that he or she was being pranked until he or she checked it out on the internet.

I find that hard to believe.

Although I did spend a couple of years living with it on the walking route to the tube station I used to go to university, and didn’t look inside once.

The Rev Dodgson said:

I find that hard to believe.

Well me too! That’s kind of the point.

dv said:

Some of you may remember a regular here who has had three holidays to London, compiles “to see lists” based on tourist guides, loves museums, has been to the Natural History Museum, the Science Museum, Victoria and Albert Museum, the National Gallery and the Tate, the Cutty Sark out at Greenwich, the Armories at the Tower, the Jewel Tower, St Pauls. Basically this person has “done” London thoroughly, repeatedly. Talking about someone who reads broadly and greatly, someone who’s aware that the Elgin Marbles are in London, someone who knows that the Uruk Trough is in London etc. Until April 03, 2015, this person had never heard of The British Museum, to the point of suspecting that he or she was being pranked until he or she checked it out on the internet.

I really had to hold your hand through that one.

My recollection of the British Museum were board game boards from early Africa, that’s what I came away with, that’s what I learnt from visiting there.

dv said:

The phenomenon is known as The Mandela Effect.
(I had not heard of this, or any of this stuff, until yesterday)
http://consciouslifenews.com/nelson-mandela-didnt-die-prison-matters/1168775/#

If you remember seeing media coverage of Nelson Mandela having died in prison in the 1980s, and you’re wondering why he’s just this month been reported dead again, you’re in good company. Mandela is one of the most commonly discussed celebrities who has been seen alive after having been reported dead. When we personally witness disparities between events we remember having happened and what reliable physical evidence suggests has occurred, we might at first feel a sense of dissonance. Fortunately, we need not stay confused, since noticing the differences between our memories and evidence in our current reality allows us to gain valuable direct experience of how malleable reality can truly be. Recent scientific discoveries suggest it’s quite likely that both this so-called “Mandela Effect,” also known as the “Alive Again” phenomena, are not new, as shamans and spiritual teachers from every continent and age of humankind have described for millennia.

Yeah its like Keith Richards and Iggy Pop have been reporting dead many times but its just because they look dead but are actually alive.

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

Some of you may remember a regular here who has had three holidays to London, compiles “to see lists” based on tourist guides, loves museums, has been to the Natural History Museum, the Science Museum, Victoria and Albert Museum, the National Gallery and the Tate, the Cutty Sark out at Greenwich, the Armories at the Tower, the Jewel Tower, St Pauls. Basically this person has “done” London thoroughly, repeatedly. Talking about someone who reads broadly and greatly, someone who’s aware that the Elgin Marbles are in London, someone who knows that the Uruk Trough is in London etc. Until April 03, 2015, this person had never heard of The British Museum, to the point of suspecting that he or she was being pranked until he or she checked it out on the internet.

I really had to hold your hand through that one.

I though I was

(puts on Raybans)

losing my marbles.

(waits)

(takes off Raybans)

dv said:

The phenomenon is known as The Mandela Effect.
(I had not heard of this, or any of this stuff, until yesterday)
http://consciouslifenews.com/nelson-mandela-didnt-die-prison-matters/1168775/#

If you remember seeing media coverage of Nelson Mandela having died in prison in the 1980s, and you’re wondering why he’s just this month been reported dead again, you’re in good company. Mandela is one of the most commonly discussed celebrities who has been seen alive after having been reported dead. When we personally witness disparities between events we remember having happened and what reliable physical evidence suggests has occurred, we might at first feel a sense of dissonance. Fortunately, we need not stay confused, since noticing the differences between our memories and evidence in our current reality allows us to gain valuable direct experience of how malleable reality can truly be. Recent scientific discoveries suggest it’s quite likely that both this so-called “Mandela Effect,” also known as the “Alive Again” phenomena, are not new, as shamans and spiritual teachers from every continent and age of humankind have described for millennia.

I don’t think that actually relates to this phenomenon. This is just a variant spelling that people were taught was the “correct” one. As it happens, the dictionaries didn’t and don’t agree.

But that doesn’t mean it’s “incorrect”, just an insufficiently common variant spelling, in the opinion of lexicographers, or at least those who have even noticed this matter.

Let’s remind ourselves that “correct” spellings of non-technical words are just those used by a sufficiently large number of people.

It could well be that “dilemna” passes this test but the experts haven’t yet noticed :)

dv said:

A lot of people have memories of Trump saying he was going to drain the swamp.

Did he mean his brain?

That’s a bit of a swamp.

Bubblecar said:

I don’t think that actually relates to this phenomenon.

Well it is an example of the “can only be explained by a parallel universe rip” phenomenon.

I think we should all move over to phonetic spelling.

dv said:

Some of you may remember a regular here who has had three holidays to London, compiles “to see lists” based on tourist guides, loves museums, has been to the Natural History Museum, the Science Museum, Victoria and Albert Museum, the National Gallery and the Tate, the Cutty Sark out at Greenwich, the Armories at the Tower, the Jewel Tower, St Pauls. Basically this person has “done” London thoroughly, repeatedly. Talking about someone who reads broadly and greatly, someone who’s aware that the Elgin Marbles are in London, someone who knows that the Uruk Trough is in London etc. Until April 03, 2015, this person had never heard of The British Museum, to the point of suspecting that he or she was being pranked until he or she checked it out on the internet.

Who?

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

I don’t think that actually relates to this phenomenon.

Well it is an example of the “can only be explained by a parallel universe rip” phenomenon.

Yes but that’s not intended to be taken seriously.

People weren’t imagining being taught to spell it “dilemna” (why on Earth would they?) but they attributed this teaching to textbooks etc instead of (or as well as) teachers, which is an easy enough trick of memory. So there’s no actual mystery involved.

kii said:

dv said:

Some of you may remember a regular here who has had three holidays to London, compiles “to see lists” based on tourist guides, loves museums, has been to the Natural History Museum, the Science Museum, Victoria and Albert Museum, the National Gallery and the Tate, the Cutty Sark out at Greenwich, the Armories at the Tower, the Jewel Tower, St Pauls. Basically this person has “done” London thoroughly, repeatedly. Talking about someone who reads broadly and greatly, someone who’s aware that the Elgin Marbles are in London, someone who knows that the Uruk Trough is in London etc. Until April 03, 2015, this person had never heard of The British Museum, to the point of suspecting that he or she was being pranked until he or she checked it out on the internet.

Who?

roughbarked

kii said:

dv said:

Some of you may remember a regular here who has had three holidays to London, compiles “to see lists” based on tourist guides, loves museums, has been to the Natural History Museum, the Science Museum, Victoria and Albert Museum, the National Gallery and the Tate, the Cutty Sark out at Greenwich, the Armories at the Tower, the Jewel Tower, St Pauls. Basically this person has “done” London thoroughly, repeatedly. Talking about someone who reads broadly and greatly, someone who’s aware that the Elgin Marbles are in London, someone who knows that the Uruk Trough is in London etc. Until April 03, 2015, this person had never heard of The British Museum, to the point of suspecting that he or she was being pranked until he or she checked it out on the internet.

Who?

dv would rather not embarrass the individual involved by naming them.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

I don’t think that actually relates to this phenomenon.

Well it is an example of the “can only be explained by a parallel universe rip” phenomenon.

Yes but that’s not intended to be taken seriously.

People weren’t imagining being taught to spell it “dilemna” (why on Earth would they?) but they attributed this teaching to textbooks etc instead of (or as well as) teachers, which is an easy enough trick of memory. So there’s no actual mystery involved.

I reckon there is a mystery probably Scooby and the gang are needed and you are a crooked real estate developed trying to scare us away.

Bubblecar said:

People weren’t imagining being taught to spell it “dilemna” (why on Earth would they?) but they attributed this teaching to textbooks etc instead of (or as well as) teachers, which is an easy enough trick of memory. So there’s no actual mystery involved.

Well, no, what you’ve presented there is one hypothesis and at present there is zero evidence in favour of it. It might be something like that or nothing like that.

We have other contemporary examples: the Berenstein bears case mentioned before. It’s not as though “Berenstein” was ever some uncommon variant. It’s just misremembering. The dilemna situation might be the same as the Berenstein case: just a bunch of individual cases of misremembering, and no one was ever actually taught that way in any school.

So there’s a mystery involved.

dv said:

kii said:

dv said:

Some of you may remember a regular here who has had three holidays to London, compiles “to see lists” based on tourist guides, loves museums, has been to the Natural History Museum, the Science Museum, Victoria and Albert Museum, the National Gallery and the Tate, the Cutty Sark out at Greenwich, the Armories at the Tower, the Jewel Tower, St Pauls. Basically this person has “done” London thoroughly, repeatedly. Talking about someone who reads broadly and greatly, someone who’s aware that the Elgin Marbles are in London, someone who knows that the Uruk Trough is in London etc. Until April 03, 2015, this person had never heard of The British Museum, to the point of suspecting that he or she was being pranked until he or she checked it out on the internet.

Who?

roughbarked

Oh okay.

I’ve been too busy to read this fred, some kind soul please explain?

kii said:

I’ve been too busy to read this fred, some kind soul please explain?

NO, you must read it

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

People weren’t imagining being taught to spell it “dilemna” (why on Earth would they?) but they attributed this teaching to textbooks etc instead of (or as well as) teachers, which is an easy enough trick of memory. So there’s no actual mystery involved.

Well, no, what you’ve presented there is one hypothesis and at present there is zero evidence in favour of it. It might be something like that or nothing like that.

We have other contemporary examples: the Berenstein bears case mentioned before. It’s not as though “Berenstein” was ever some uncommon variant. It’s just misremembering. The dilemna situation might be the same as the Berenstein case: just a bunch of individual cases of misremembering, and no one was ever actually taught that way in any school.

So there’s a mystery involved.

No. I’m sure like vast numbers of people I’ve never heard of the bears you’re talking about. But the dilemna spelling variant is very widely known and it appears to be a confusion related uniquely to this word, over a long period of time. I see no reason to maintain a “woo” attitude in relation to this question, but you’re welcome to your alternative dimensions, and buffy is welcome to her devious “fake news” factories :)

kii said:

I’ve been too busy to read this fred, some kind soul please explain?

There is a cultural phenonomon of people misremembering how the word ‘dilemma’ is spelt. As an aside we have learnt that DV gets all his book learning from the back of ‘Night at the Museum’ dvds.

Witty Rejoinder said:

kii said:

I’ve been too busy to read this fred, some kind soul please explain?

There is a cultural phenonomon of people misremembering how the word ‘dilemma’ is spelt. As an aside we have learnt that DV gets all his book learning from the back of ‘Night at the Museum’ dvds.

Ta.

Now spell diarrhoea.

😈

Bubblecar said:

No. I’m sure like vast numbers of people I’ve never heard of the bears you’re talking about.

It’s an extremely popular series of books for children so I would think the number of people who’ve never heard of them is similar to the number that have never heard of the word “dilemma”.

furious said:

I am, generally, a terrible speller. On a computer it is easier because it tells me when I am wrong but when I resort to pen and paper I am left to my own devices. On more than one occasion I might have written dilemna and do recall seeing it being used…

in your own work?

Witty Rejoinder said:

kii said:

I’ve been too busy to read this fred, some kind soul please explain?

There is a cultural phenonomon of people misremembering how the word ‘dilemma’ is spelt. As an aside we have learnt that DV gets all his book learning from the back of ‘Night at the Museum’ dvds.

That’s a half-truth

dv said:

Dilmah

perfect to a t

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

No. I’m sure like vast numbers of people I’ve never heard of the bears you’re talking about.

It’s an extremely popular series of books for children so I would think the number of people who’ve never heard of them is similar to the number that have never heard of the word “dilemma”.

There is at least one person who frequents this very forum who has never heard of the B Bears before, but has frequently seen and heard the word dilemma (although never with the damn mn spelling).

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

No. I’m sure like vast numbers of people I’ve never heard of the bears you’re talking about.

It’s an extremely popular series of books for children so I would think the number of people who’ve never heard of them is similar to the number that have never heard of the word “dilemma”.

There is at least one person who frequents this very forum who has never heard of the B Bears before, but has frequently seen and heard the word dilemma (although never with the damn mn spelling).

de lem ma

• As an aside we have learnt that DV gets all his book learning from the back of ‘Night at the Museum’ dvds.

And Gough Whitlam’s real name was Craig…

Tau.Neutrino said:

de lem ma

maybe

de lem mar

There’s a simple logical consequence to this “misremembering” claim that people are strangely overlooking.

If there were ever any inexplicable instance of large numbers of people “misremembering” that they were taught to spell the word “dilemna”, the consequences would be:

a) They would actually spell it that way.
b) A significant proportion of them would become teachers, parents etc who teach their children that it’s spelt that way.
c) Some would become writers who spell it that way in print etc.
d) Leading to a situation in which significant numbers of people correctly remember that they were taught to spell it that way.

So Occam’s razor would discard the “misremembering” explanation and accept people’s claim that they were taught to spell it that way, with the proviso that they’re likely to inadvertently exaggerate the breadth of authority that induced them to do so.

dv said:

Dilmah

Hahahahahahahahahah!

probably been influenced by the silent n thing

autumn, column, damn, condemn, hymn, solemn

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

No. I’m sure like vast numbers of people I’ve never heard of the bears you’re talking about.

It’s an extremely popular series of books for children so I would think the number of people who’ve never heard of them is similar to the number that have never heard of the word “dilemma”.

There is at least one person who frequents this very forum who has never heard of the B Bears before, but has frequently seen and heard the word dilemma (although never with the damn mn spelling).

I’d not heard of the B bears until wiki’ing false memories recently.

heard of humphrey b bear but not the b bears. but then i don’t get out much.

ChrispenEvan said:

heard of humphrey b bear but not the b bears. but then i don’t get out much.

To b bears, or not to b bears.
That is the question.

It appears we are on the horns of a dilem!!

For me it’s always been dilemma, which has always meant “two lemmas”, lemma being a minor theorem in mathematics.

Are you sure you’re not mixing it up with “damn”, “damnation”?

mollwollfumble said:

For me it’s always been dilemma, which has always meant “two lemmas”, lemma being a minor theorem in mathematics.

Are you sure you’re not mixing it up with “damn”, “damnation”?

I don’t understand the problem, predicament, difficulty, pickle, perplexity or quandary. There are as many exceptions to the rules of spelling, such as they are, as there are compliers. English is fiendishly erratic. And memory is notoriously slippery.

It ain’t Science.

mollwollfumble said:

For me it’s always been dilemma, which has always meant “two lemmas”, lemma being a minor theorem in mathematics.

Are you sure you’re not mixing it up with “damn”, “damnation”?

That would spell dilemmalemma and I really don’t think that whole other lemma could be silent.

Or did you mean Iemma, as in Morris? :)

Speedy said:

mollwollfumble said:

For me it’s always been dilemma, which has always meant “two lemmas”, lemma being a minor theorem in mathematics.

Are you sure you’re not mixing it up with “damn”, “damnation”?

That would spell dilemmalemma and I really don’t think that whole other lemma could be silent.

Or did you mean Iemma, as in Morris? :)

or as in ana?

I have a question for Bubblecar (before I go and rescue the smoked pork chops from the oven). If you thought the dilemna spelling was correct, did it annoy the hell out of you when reading when it was spelt dilemma?

buffy said:

I have a question for Bubblecar (before I go and rescue the smoked pork chops from the oven). If you thought the dilemna spelling was correct, did it annoy the hell out of you when reading when it was spelt dilemma?

Don’t really recall being annoyed. I vaguely remember in my early teens, vocally correcting that spelling in the company of my mum & older sister, who pooh-poohed my “dilemna” version, which sent me charging to the dictionary to prove myself right, only to find that I was wrong. And that was more surprising than annoying.

This is what tends to come across in the comments on those links, people’s genuine surprise and almost disbelief that their version with the tricky silent letter wasn’t the “right” one, according to dictionaries :)

That’s good news, roughbarked

Ian said:

I don’t understand the problem, predicament, difficulty, pickle, perplexity or quandary. There are as many exceptions to the rules of spelling, such as they are, as there are compliers. English is fiendishly erratic. And memory is notoriously slippery.

It ain’t Science.

This isn’t a science forum.

dv said:

Ian said:

I don’t understand the problem, predicament, difficulty, pickle, perplexity or quandary. There are as many exceptions to the rules of spelling, such as they are, as there are compliers. English is fiendishly erratic. And memory is notoriously slippery.

It ain’t Science.

This isn’t a science forum.

No. What’s the word for that what it is?

Ian said:

dv said:

Ian said:

I don’t understand the problem, predicament, difficulty, pickle, perplexity or quandary. There are as many exceptions to the rules of spelling, such as they are, as there are compliers. English is fiendishly erratic. And memory is notoriously slippery.

It ain’t Science.

This isn’t a science forum.

No. What’s the word for that what it is?

Holiday.

Speedy said:

Ian said:

dv said:

This isn’t a science forum.

No. What’s the word for that what it is?

Holiday.

Hmmm.. the alt-sci forum.

How about Pickle Place?

Ian said:

dv said:

Ian said:

I don’t understand the problem, predicament, difficulty, pickle, perplexity or quandary. There are as many exceptions to the rules of spelling, such as they are, as there are compliers. English is fiendishly erratic. And memory is notoriously slippery.

It ain’t Science.

This isn’t a science forum.

No. What’s the word for that what it is?

A general forum

dv said:

A general forum

Five star general.

Its one of the dark corners of the internet…