Date: 28/05/2017 02:36:37
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1071699
Subject: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

For the first time, astronomers have witnessed a star disappear right before their eyes. Known as N6946-BH1, the star appears to have collapsed into a black hole without the usual flair of a supernova, which not only marks the first time scientists have witnessed the birth of a black hole, but could change our understanding of the life and death of stars.

more…

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Date: 28/05/2017 02:37:57
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1071700
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

I’m guessing there is still a bang, a small bang.

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Date: 28/05/2017 02:47:18
From: party_pants
ID: 1071704
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Tau.Neutrino said:


Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

For the first time, astronomers have witnessed a star disappear right before their eyes. Known as N6946-BH1, the star appears to have collapsed into a black hole without the usual flair of a supernova, which not only marks the first time scientists have witnessed the birth of a black hole, but could change our understanding of the life and death of stars.

more…

that is kinda interesting.

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Date: 28/05/2017 03:04:55
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1071705
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Tau.Neutrino said:


Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

For the first time, astronomers have witnessed a star disappear right before their eyes. Known as N6946-BH1, the star appears to have collapsed into a black hole without the usual flair of a supernova, which not only marks the first time scientists have witnessed the birth of a black hole, but could change our understanding of the life and death of stars.

more…

How can they know it isn’t another black hole passing in front of the star?

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Date: 28/05/2017 03:29:14
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1071707
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

The Rev Dodgson said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

For the first time, astronomers have witnessed a star disappear right before their eyes. Known as N6946-BH1, the star appears to have collapsed into a black hole without the usual flair of a supernova, which not only marks the first time scientists have witnessed the birth of a black hole, but could change our understanding of the life and death of stars.

more…

How can they know it isn’t another black hole passing in front of the star?

Light bending from other stars would give it away.

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Date: 28/05/2017 03:44:07
From: Michael V
ID: 1071716
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

:)

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Date: 28/05/2017 08:30:37
From: mcgoon
ID: 1071789
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Tau.Neutrino said:


I’m guessing there is still a bang, a small bang.

Probably something similar to the sound of one hand clapping.

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Date: 28/05/2017 14:10:51
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1071892
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Tau.Neutrino said:


Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

For the first time, astronomers have witnessed a star disappear right before their eyes. Known as N6946-BH1, the star appears to have collapsed into a black hole without the usual flair of a supernova, which not only marks the first time scientists have witnessed the birth of a black hole, but could change our understanding of the life and death of stars.

more…

> According to conventional thinking, when a star exhausts its energy supply, it violently ejects most of its matter outwards in a supernova, before collapsing in on itself to form a black hole.

Yes. But it’s also well known that the explosion can be created in several different ways. At different stages of collapse depending on the star’s initial mass distribution.

> Some 22 million light-years from Earth, the star N6946-BH1 is located in the galaxy NGC 6946, which is often known as the Fireworks Galaxy due to how regularly its stars go supernova. But this one was different. Telescope images show that N6946-BH1 was clearly visible in 2007, brightened slightly around 2009, and had vanished completely by 2015.

Well, computer models of the collapse of massive stars have yet to explain how a supernova happens. So it should be a relief to astrophysicists that sometimes it doesn’t.

> “N6946-BH1 is the only likely failed supernova that we found in the first seven years of our survey,” says Scott Adams, co-author of the study. “During this period, six normal supernovae have occurred within the galaxies we’ve been monitoring.

We already have “supernova imposters”, stars that appear to blow up like a supernova but after the “supernova” has finished the original star is still there. Eta Carinae is the best known. “Examples of supernova impostors include the 1843 eruption of Eta Carinae, P Cygni, SN 1961V, SN 1954J, SN 1997bs, SN 2008S in NGC 6946, and SN 2010dn where detections of the surviving progenitor stars are claimed. One supernova impostor that made news after the fact was the one observed on October 20, 2004, in the galaxy UGC 4904 by Japanese amateur astronomer Koichi Itagaki. This LBV star exploded just two years later, on October 11, 2006, as supernova SN 2006jc.”

According to the attached video, the star is still visible in IR, which means that the possibility that it’s just obscured by dust isn’t completely ruled out yet, but that will be tested more rigorously later.

By the way, the images of this galaxy in 2007 and 2015 are the best I’ve seen of how Hubble’s WFC3 is heaps better then the old camera WFPC2. Look at the improvement in resolution of the Hubble Telescope. The old WFPC2 is on the left and the new WFC3 is on the right.

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Date: 29/05/2017 11:42:29
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1072192
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

A good improvement.

It will be great when they can get rid of noise altogether.

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Date: 29/05/2017 11:44:10
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1072194
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Tau.Neutrino said:


A good improvement.

It will be great when they can get rid of noise altogether.

i doubt there is enough time until the end of the Universe for that to be.

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Date: 29/05/2017 11:49:45
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1072196
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

A good improvement.

It will be great when they can get rid of noise altogether.

i doubt there is enough time until the end of the Universe for that to be.

I like pushing technology.

It would be great to eliminate digital images of noise.

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Date: 29/05/2017 11:52:00
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1072198
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A good improvement.

It will be great when they can get rid of noise altogether.

i doubt there is enough time until the end of the Universe for that to be.

I like pushing technology.

It would be great to eliminate digital images of noise.

yes it would be great, but impossible.

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Date: 29/05/2017 12:49:35
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1072219
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A good improvement.

It will be great when they can get rid of noise altogether.

i doubt there is enough time until the end of the Universe for that to be.

I like pushing technology.

It would be great to eliminate digital images of noise.

It sort of might be possible. Not to eliminate noise entirely but to make it so small that all of the most distant galaxies are plainly visible. Or to put it another way, for the noise to be so small that we can see every unobscured galaxy in the visible universe.

Fingers crossed for the James Webb Space Telescope. So far as I know it’s on track for a launch Oct 2018.

The longer the seeing time, the less the noise. And multilayering is starting to have a really big effect on noise suppression from small and medium size ground-based telescopes. I’m looking forward to where it’s used on the biggest ground-based telescopes.

Also, astronomical noise suppression software is very very much better than in the Apollo era, and in the era of Hubble before the first servicing mission.

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Date: 29/05/2017 12:58:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1072225
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Could a computer using images taken from different angles from different locations eliminate noise?

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Date: 29/05/2017 13:03:23
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1072230
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Tau.Neutrino said:


Could a computer using images taken from different angles from different locations eliminate noise?

the equipment you use produces noise of it’s own. that is where most comes from and why they bathe them in liquid helium or the like.

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Date: 29/05/2017 13:07:41
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1072233
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Could a computer using images taken from different angles from different locations eliminate noise?

the equipment you use produces noise of it’s own. that is where most comes from and why they bathe them in liquid helium or the like.

If that company that makes Vantablack made it more available telescopes could use that material.

Could Vantablack help with noise reduction?

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Date: 29/05/2017 13:13:30
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1072237
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Could a computer using images taken from different angles from different locations eliminate noise?

the equipment you use produces noise of it’s own. that is where most comes from and why they bathe them in liquid helium or the like.

If that company that makes Vantablack made it more available telescopes could use that material.

Could Vantablack help with noise reduction?

how? is it electronic? can it process signals?

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Date: 30/05/2017 12:05:52
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1072556
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Tau.Neutrino said:


Could a computer using images taken from different angles from different locations eliminate noise?

Reduce the noise greatly. This sort of technique is similar to multilayering.

It’s also been used to clean up the noise from old films and videos, so-called remastering.

What I like is that it’s possible to get a full 3-D view from only two angles. That’s been used in reducing the noise from satellite imagery of Earth. Including subpixel resolution. So for instance multiple pictures from a satellite with pixel area 10*10 metres can be used to generate detail on. 2.5*2.5 metre scale. Tougher with astronomical space images though.

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Date: 31/05/2017 20:09:37
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1073250
Subject: re: Birth of a black hole witnessed as star vanishes without a bang

Brightness observations. First observed in 1999. Note that the vertical axis has two incompatible scales set next to one another.

There’s a slight rise in brightness from 1999 to 2005 – less than a factor of two
A drop from 2005 to 2008 – approx a factor of five
A rise from 2008 to 2009 – approx a factor of fifteen
Followed by a disappearance during 2009
Some IR emission seen after the disappearance

Worth watching to see if it reappears in future.

Progenitor star consistent with 23+-2 solar masses.
Progenitor luminosity 5.3 times the Sun
Progenitor temperature 4480 K, which makes it a yellow-orange G star, only a little cooler than the Sun.

According to one paper, the end result may not be a black hole at all, but a star of temperature 10,700 K obscured by dust.

Which makes me think – instead of seeing the birth of a black hole we could be seeing the birth of a planetary nebula. To me, that would be much more exciting, because we already know that stars large enough to go so supernova shed large amounts of surface matter in a pulse some years before they finally blow up. I’ve never seen an explanation of how this occurs.

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