The comments on designing houses to exclude the heat are true, and practical, and a no-cost variation on normal house design.
We don’t have, nor ever will have, enough power or infrastructure to aircondition every building – and nor is it desirable to have a population so divorced from the outside temperatures.
My house is passive solar designed and its got a cellar (constant 22C) and a pool. I only turned on the air con when we were cooking over the past two weeks. None the less the heat (47C – 117F) was the hottest in my 58 years of existence.
And now I’m looking at aerial photos of the Kinglake bushfire devastation. Whole streets of houses must have exploded. These brick veneer houses burn in 5 minutes. Frightening.
I think there’s a good case for an underground bunker in every house.

I think there’s a good case for an underground bunker in every house.

A brilliant idea Pepe. Somewhere safe to shelter till the firefront passes.

orchid40 said:

I think there’s a good case for an underground bunker in every house.

A brilliant idea Pepe. Somewhere safe to shelter till the firefront passes.

yes. the yanks have their cellars for tornados, so why not for fires? But not all sorts of soil would be suitable for this so the cost could be prohibitive for some.

bluegreen said:

orchid40 said:

I think there’s a good case for an underground bunker in every house.

A brilliant idea Pepe. Somewhere safe to shelter till the firefront passes.

yes. the yanks have their cellars for tornados, so why not for fires? But not all sorts of soil would be suitable for this so the cost could be prohibitive for some.

Well that’s true. There was a Julie Roberts movie where I saw this, and the neighbours were sharing a bunker…

Is your cellar for storing wine, Pepe?

bluegreen said:

orchid40 said:

I think there’s a good case for an underground bunker in every house.

A brilliant idea Pepe. Somewhere safe to shelter till the firefront passes.

yes. the yanks have their cellars for tornados, so why not for fires? But not all sorts of soil would be suitable for this so the cost could be prohibitive for some.

yep – it wouldn’t be too good in a flood either. still people rebuilding in forests might consider it.

Dinetta said:

bluegreen said:

orchid40 said:

I think there’s a good case for an underground bunker in every house.

A brilliant idea Pepe. Somewhere safe to shelter till the firefront passes.

yes. the yanks have their cellars for tornados, so why not for fires? But not all sorts of soil would be suitable for this so the cost could be prohibitive for some.

Well that’s true. There was a Julie Roberts movie where I saw this, and the neighbours were sharing a bunker…

Is your cellar for storing wine, Pepe?

it was in the 30 year old house when i bought it four years ago – as was the pool. I have a bit of wine. its a hot weather refuge and storage (bags of spuds, onions and pumpkin) area. Its only 2×4m and wouldn’t have saved me form bushfires yesterday because the kitchen floor above is timber. nonetheless its an extremely useful little space.

pepe said:

Dinetta said:

bluegreen said:

orchid40 said:

I think there’s a good case for an underground bunker in every house.

A brilliant idea Pepe. Somewhere safe to shelter till the firefront passes.

yes. the yanks have their cellars for tornados, so why not for fires? But not all sorts of soil would be suitable for this so the cost could be prohibitive for some.

Well that’s true. There was a Julie Roberts movie where I saw this, and the neighbours were sharing a bunker…

Is your cellar for storing wine, Pepe?

it was in the 30 year old house when i bought it four years ago – as was the pool. I have a bit of wine. its a hot weather refuge and storage (bags of spuds, onions and pumpkin) area. Its only 2×4m and wouldn’t have saved me form bushfires yesterday because the kitchen floor above is timber. nonetheless its an extremely useful little space.

Yes it does sound useful…the idea of underground emergency accommodation is still a sound one, I think…particularly in the bushfire areas as you say…

blush we’ve always stored our onions, potatoes and garlic…everything except the bananas, in the refrigerators…in winter we don’t have to but in summer it needs refrigeration to stop sprouting or rotting quickly…mind you we buy our fridges with a view to the energy ratings…

I have become interested in the energy-saving aspects of home ownership as we need to renovate after all the children have left secondary school…and I would like to follow on from the solar water heating…our house is very open plan…when the roof was replaced, we insisted on ceiling insulation and we installed 2 replacement whirly birds plus one extra, which have made a heck of a difference…

Last week i gave some quotes on installing a solar hot water system. I received a call from the supplier Friday and the federal assistance has increased by about $400 i think.
So around $1000 installed. I’m going for it!

Longy said:

Last week i gave some quotes on installing a solar hot water system. I received a call from the supplier Friday and the federal assistance has increased by about $400 i think.
So around $1000 installed. I’m going for it!

Hotdamn Longy! At that price you can’t lose.

Dinetta said:

pepe said:

Dinetta said:

bluegreen said:

orchid40 said:

I think there’s a good case for an underground bunker in every house.

A brilliant idea Pepe. Somewhere safe to shelter till the firefront passes.

yes. the yanks have their cellars for tornados, so why not for fires? But not all sorts of soil would be suitable for this so the cost could be prohibitive for some.

Well that’s true. There was a Julie Roberts movie where I saw this, and the neighbours were sharing a bunker…

Is your cellar for storing wine, Pepe?

it was in the 30 year old house when i bought it four years ago – as was the pool. I have a bit of wine. its a hot weather refuge and storage (bags of spuds, onions and pumpkin) area. Its only 2×4m and wouldn’t have saved me form bushfires yesterday because the kitchen floor above is timber. nonetheless its an extremely useful little space.

Yes it does sound useful…the idea of underground emergency accommodation is still a sound one, I think…particularly in the bushfire areas as you say…

blush we’ve always stored our onions, potatoes and garlic…everything except the bananas, in the refrigerators…in winter we don’t have to but in summer it needs refrigeration to stop sprouting or rotting quickly…mind you we buy our fridges with a view to the energy ratings…

I have become interested in the energy-saving aspects of home ownership as we need to renovate after all the children have left secondary school…and I would like to follow on from the solar water heating…our house is very open plan…when the roof was replaced, we insisted on ceiling insulation and we installed 2 replacement whirly birds plus one extra, which have made a heck of a difference…

I have just been googling whirlybirds…think I’ll try to get the landlord to install one for us. We have ceiling insulation but nothing in the walls. Our place is reasonably cool in the morning but as soon as the afternoon sun hits the place becomes a furnace. The air conditioner is old and not very efficient but it does help a bit. We have verandahs on the northern and southern sides but nothing on the east and west…go figure!

We have put up a bit of lattice on the western side of the verandahs and have a grapevine starting to cover one. The problem is being in a rental property and the landlord not being financially able to do any major improvements at the moment. So we are trying to come up with some cheap alternatives. OH is outside at moment “creating” an awning, of sorts, for one of the windows that face west. I have been haggling for a pergola or extension of the verandah over the years and hopefully that will eventually happen. OH would rather an semi-enclosed deck. Still until the landlord can afford it it’s not going to happen. In the meantime I’ll just have to keep planting trees…but again as we are renting we don’t want to spend too much of our limited finances.

Longy said:

Last week i gave some quotes on installing a solar hot water system. I received a call from the supplier Friday and the federal assistance has increased by about $400 i think.
So around $1000 installed. I’m going for it!

Definitely worth it. I’m an avid fan

So we are trying to come up with some cheap alternatives. OH is outside at moment “creating” an awning, of sorts, for one of the windows that face west. I have been haggling for a pergola or extension of the verandah over the years and hopefully that will eventually happen. OH would rather an semi-enclosed deck. Still until the landlord can afford it it’s not going to happen. In the meantime I’ll just have to keep planting trees…but again as we are renting we don’t want to spend too much of our limited finances.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
To block the sun out of a window, (i’m talking 100% blockage, ) wet the glass on the inside with water with a tiny bit of detergent in it. Use a trigger spray sorta bottle.
Have a piece of alfoil cut to size.
Squeegee the alfoil onto the glass. It’ll stick like stuff toa blanket. Air pressure will hold it there once the water dries up.
I use this in the desert in dongas and when on nightshift.
Easiest to remove the sliding pane and do that then do the other one once you have the hang of it.

Anne, i installed 2 x roof vents whirly jiggers. $120 installed each i think from memory.
Made a difference of about 5 degrees in the house.
I use a piece of foam cut just oversize to block them from inside in Winter.

One good thing about this Summer sun.
My solar pump in my little water feature rocks. It shoots a jet up about 300mm.
Love the sound of constant water splash. Probably drives the fish in there bonkas.

Longy said:

Last week i gave some quotes on installing a solar hot water system. I received a call from the supplier Friday and the federal assistance has increased by about $400 i think.
So around $1000 installed. I’m going for it!

Longy at least your not going for a LPG one they cost around $1000 for the unit and $250 for us to install we dont sell the unit but.

Mawson Lake near us…. the new houses and apartments are to my way of thinking …..not enviro friendly.

No eves and huge a/c on the roof. There are huge glass windows and huge open areas in these houses.

they cost around $1000 for the unit and $250 for us to install we dont sell the unit but.
++++++++
Mine is mains power backup VG but i will turn it off anyway. If we get a cool day, i’ll have a cool shower. Until Winter anyway…

Longy said:

they cost around $1000 for the unit and $250 for us to install we dont sell the unit but.
++++++++
Mine is mains power backup VG but i will turn it off anyway. If we get a cool day, i’ll have a cool shower. Until Winter anyway…

yeah, thats good thing about dual element mains back up in case there is no sun or gas.

No eves and huge a/c on the roof. There are huge glass windows and huge open areas in these houses.

+++++++++++++++
Local councils need to be forced to get a bit with the times i reckon.
The council here has a green points system. You need to get a certain number of points for a house to be OK’d. However, as usual, they stuff it up in the administration and enforcement of the rules.

Longy said:

No eves and huge a/c on the roof. There are huge glass windows and huge open areas in these houses.

+++++++++++++++
Local councils need to be forced to get a bit with the times i reckon.
The council here has a green points system. You need to get a certain number of points for a house to be OK’d. However, as usual, they stuff it up in the administration and enforcement of the rules.

these are all 5 star rated houses in mawson lakes. the star rating systems are a cock up!
the houses are all style and no content. ridiculous.

btw – the cold water tap delivers hot water in summer here. so to get hot water in summer just run your cold water pipe through the roof. you don’t need hot showers in summer.
if you’ve got a slow combustion heater than tap that into your hot water system for winter hot water.

Longy said:

No eves and huge a/c on the roof. There are huge glass windows and huge open areas in these houses.

+++++++++++++++
Local councils need to be forced to get a bit with the times i reckon.
The council here has a green points system. You need to get a certain number of points for a house to be OK’d. However, as usual, they stuff it up in the administration and enforcement of the rules.

Oh they have that here too….. guess eves and such aren’t on the “hit list” though.

venting the roof space with whirly birds (wind driven roof mounted exhaust vents) is an excellent means of keeping the house cool. it will also exhaust hot air from your uninsulated walls provided the wall top plate is allowing the air to escape.

the cold water tap delivers hot water in summer here. so to get hot water in summer just run your cold water pipe through the roof. you don’t need hot showers in summer.
if you’ve got a slow combustion heater than tap that into your hot water system for winter hot water
+++++++++
Yes, not much hot water required here either mate. Washing up and cleaning beer bottles is about it.
No type of heating at all here. No need. A pair of tracky dax and a flanno is enough.
Maybe a rug on the legs while watching the idiot box if it’s a bit cool.

guess eves and such aren’t on the “hit list” though.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can’t believe they allow a building with no eaves and then allow an AC.
Once again, it’s bullsh8T.

Longy said:

guess eves and such aren’t on the “hit list” though.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can’t believe they allow a building with no eaves and then allow an AC.
Once again, it’s bullsh8T.

Oh the 2 story houses look stupid for it Longy……… just a balls up from the left ball to the right ball….

back to cleaning and pick up….

an excellent means of keeping the house cool
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah mate, when i went up into the roof cavity to open the vents this year, it was a warmish Spring day. Maybe 35 in the roof cavity.
15 minutes after i opened them, it was about 25 up there. That will ahve an effect even if the ceiling is insulated as mine is. Also, the manhole in my house is in my pool room, used to be the double garage. I have the manhole open thru Summer to allow it to draw the warm air out of that room, which is on the western side. Works OK too!

Oh the 2 story houses look stupid for it Longy……… just a balls up from the left ball to the right ball….

back to cleaning and pick up….

++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah well, you should let council know of your displeasure. Letters to the editor also are worth a shot if you’re that way inclined too.

Our house is HOT.

It should by rights be cool but the neighbours on one side did a block split and moved their house as close as it legally could be. They very effectively block any breezes.

Thanks for the tips for the windows Longy. We will surely have a go at that.

AnneS said:

Thanks for the tips for the windows Longy. We will surely have a go at that.

It’ll blow your bloomin mind how effective it is Anne.
Doesn’t look so bad from outside either.
May leave a bit of a film on the glass but as it’s a rental, you probably won’t mind.

Longy said:

AnneS said:

Thanks for the tips for the windows Longy. We will surely have a go at that.

It’ll blow your bloomin mind how effective it is Anne.
Doesn’t look so bad from outside either.
May leave a bit of a film on the glass but as it’s a rental, you probably won’t mind.

Did you just use sheets of common, everyday kitchen foil or dod you get big sheets from somewhere?

Did you just use sheets of common, everyday kitchen foil or dod you get big sheets from somewhere?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just foil from the kitchen Anne.
Works a treat.
Use double or triple pieces if necessary for bigger windows.
Go vertically or horizontally. Up to you.

Longy said:

Did you just use sheets of common, everyday kitchen foil or dod you get big sheets from somewhere?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just foil from the kitchen Anne.
Works a treat.
Use double or triple pieces if necessary for bigger windows.
Go vertically or horizontally. Up to you.

Cool..will get started…just found the squeegie

Cool..will get started…just found the squeegie

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Prepare to have your hair blown back.,

Bubba Louie said:

Our house is HOT.

It should by rights be cool but the neighbours on one side did a block split and moved their house as close as it legally could be. They very effectively block any breezes.

upwards – hot air rises and the roof can be ventilated.
g’day buuba. your downstairs would be cool??

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/11/2488232.htm

Talk about having 1 fire proof building in each town where people can go for safety.

Dinetta said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/11/2488232.htm

at the least valuables & important documents could be kept in a fireproof bunker, with it as a last resort if needed for personal shelter.

Dinetta said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/11/2488232.htm

i agree
no way will glass withstand firestorms – in fact steel, timber and brick are also swept away in these fires.
i’m thinking that a cellar is a good idea as a summer time living area as well as cellar storage for food and wine.
or…. if you’re an animal lover – it could be your chook house/ dog kennel when there are no fires around.

pepe said:

Dinetta said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/11/2488232.htm

i agree
no way will glass withstand firestorms – in fact steel, timber and brick are also swept away in these fires.
i’m thinking that a cellar is a good idea as a summer time living area as well as cellar storage for food and wine.
or…. if you’re an animal lover – it could be your chook house/ dog kennel when there are no fires around.

How would you make sure there’s a reliable oxygen supply though? I thought those big raging fires sucked all the oxygen out of the air?

bon008 said:

pepe said:

Dinetta said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/11/2488232.htm

i agree
no way will glass withstand firestorms – in fact steel, timber and brick are also swept away in these fires.
i’m thinking that a cellar is a good idea as a summer time living area as well as cellar storage for food and wine.
or…. if you’re an animal lover – it could be your chook house/ dog kennel when there are no fires around.

How would you make sure there’s a reliable oxygen supply though? I thought those big raging fires sucked all the oxygen out of the air?

consult an expert – but i don’t think oxygen availability is an issue.
the bunker has sufficient air for 20 minutes (while the fire front passes) and you’re really just hiding from radiant heat – because not all the oxygen disappears (which it doesn’t??)