Michelin’s concept tire comes wrapped in “rechargeable” 3D-printed treads

Aside from trotting out a new tread pattern every year or so, you might think there’s not a lot manufacturers could do to improve the humble car tire. But advances in materials, sensors and manufacturing techniques are opening up new possibilities. Michelin is exploring this potential with its Vision concept tire that is airless, 3D printed, equipped with sensors, biodegradable, and not just a tire, but a tire and wheel in one.

more…

> Aside from trotting out a new tread pattern every year or so, you might think there’s not a lot manufacturers could do to improve the humble car tire.

Yes. That’s what I’m​ inclined to think. I met someone who used to design vehicle tyres for a living. There’s not much more that can be done with rubber and steel. A percent or so improvement in one aspect of performance is matched by a decrease in performance in another aspect. Unless someone makes a serious error in manufacturing, like leaving a component out.

OK. It’s new. But is it better? I don’t see any steel in it.

i don’t think i have much steel in me but i’m pretty sure i’m better

Adaptive tyres perhaps that automatically alter tread pattern for conditions required

interesting idea..
shame they’d be awful in the wet

stumpy_seahorse said:

interesting idea..
shame they’d be awful in the wet

Me ?
I was thinking could they adapt for the wet to counter skidding/loss of control

What I know is that F1 cars have tyres that adjust their pressure automatically to suit conditions.

Cymek said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

interesting idea..
shame they’d be awful in the wet

Me ?
I was thinking could they adapt for the wet to counter skidding/loss of control

not you, we’ve been through that idea before, lots of frigging around for no real advantage..

the michelin tyre.. too many places for water to acumulate, car manufacturers spend a bucket of time money and effort trying to reduce unsprung weight and improve handling. that tyre would do the opposite

Peak Warming Man said:

What I know is that F1 cars have tyres that adjust their pressure automatically to suit conditions.

got a link?

in most motorsports that is banned

stumpy_seahorse said:

Peak Warming Man said:

What I know is that F1 cars have tyres that adjust their pressure automatically to suit conditions.

got a link?

in most motorsports that is banned

No link, it’s in my brian.

Peak Warming Man said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

Peak Warming Man said:

What I know is that F1 cars have tyres that adjust their pressure automatically to suit conditions.

got a link?

in most motorsports that is banned

No link, it’s in my brian.

mollwollfumble said:

> Aside from trotting out a new tread pattern every year or so, you might think there’s not a lot manufacturers could do to improve the humble car tire.

Yes. That’s what I’m​ inclined to think. I met someone who used to design vehicle tyres for a living. There’s not much more that can be done with rubber and steel.

In the last 20 years the motorcycle road tyre has improved leaps and bounds. The use of kevlar improves carcass stiffness for acceleration and braking improves and lowers unsprung weight (as Stumpy mentioned is important) is one aspect. Another is rubber compounds. You now have a more durable compound on the centre of the tyre and more sticky compound(s) that balls up and self cleans and offers higher traction as you get to the edge for better lean angles.

Also the tyres themselves give the rider much better feedback.

Even in the last couple of years, there is noticable improvement in tyre feedback.

stan101 said:

In the last 20 years the motorcycle road tyre has improved leaps and bounds. The use of kevlar improves carcass stiffness for acceleration and braking improves and lowers unsprung weight (as Stumpy mentioned is important) is one aspect. Another is rubber compounds. You now have a more durable compound on the centre of the tyre and more sticky compound(s) that balls up and self cleans and offers higher traction as you get to the edge for better lean angles.

Also the tyres themselves give the rider much better feedback.

Even in the last couple of years, there is noticable improvement in tyre feedback.

Interesting. I hadn’t heard of Kevlar being used. I like that.

The use of more durable rubber in the centre and stickier on the edges is fifty year old technology for most tyres, I don’t know about motorcycle tyres.

mollwollfumble said:

stan101 said:

In the last 20 years the motorcycle road tyre has improved leaps and bounds. The use of kevlar improves carcass stiffness for acceleration and braking improves and lowers unsprung weight (as Stumpy mentioned is important) is one aspect. Another is rubber compounds. You now have a more durable compound on the centre of the tyre and more sticky compound(s) that balls up and self cleans and offers higher traction as you get to the edge for better lean angles.

Also the tyres themselves give the rider much better feedback.

Even in the last couple of years, there is noticable improvement in tyre feedback.

Interesting. I hadn’t heard of Kevlar being used. I like that.

The use of more durable rubber in the centre and stickier on the edges is fifty year old technology for most tyres, I don’t know about motorcycle tyres.

have you a reference for that moll?
It is a method that suits 2 wheeled vehicles because of the lean. 4 wheeled vehicles mainly rely on camber to plant the centre of the tyre onto the track, leaning it onto it’s edges give less survace area on the road and therefore less traction

I would think that tyre construction would make them completely stake-proof. A situation all too common in 4WD country.

> have you a reference for that moll?

No. I just going on a mix of information from the tyre designer, information from when I was a teenager, and info from the Michelin tires episode of Megafactories. So not all that reliable.

I note that the new 3-D printed concept design is the exact opposite of self-containing. Unless there’s more planned that is not mentioned. The big advantage I can see of the 3-D printed concept is the removal of the steel central wheel. With the result that it can be thought of as inspired by wooden cart wheels.

> self-containing

Damn spell check.

Self-cleaning

Well with my belly pretty much full to capacity, I’m going to have to retire for a lay-me-down for an hour or so.

I’ll leave party_pants in charge of the bar.

Bubblecar said:

Well with my belly pretty much full to capacity, I’m going to have to retire for a lay-me-down for an hour or so.

I’ll leave party_pants in charge of the bar.

Wrong thread you fool.

PermeateFree said:

I would think that tyre construction would make them completely stake-proof. A situation all too common in 4WD country.

A few years age a tyre came out with a similar construction, only larger and rubber.
they ended up selling it for off road use only as the rubber matrix acted like extra suspension and constant movement caused it to overheat and fail.

worked marvellously off road as a puncture proof tyre though, just very expensive

Bubblecar said:

Well with my belly pretty much full to capacity, I’m going to have to retire for a lay-me-down for an hour or so.

I’ll leave party_pants in charge of the bar.

tired Mr Car?

stumpy_seahorse said:

Bubblecar said:

Well with my belly pretty much full to capacity, I’m going to have to retire for a lay-me-down for an hour or so.

I’ll leave party_pants in charge of the bar.

tired Mr Car?

Not much tread left.

stan101 said:

In the last 20 years the motorcycle road tyre has improved leaps and bounds. The use of kevlar improves carcass stiffness for acceleration and braking improves and lowers unsprung weight (as Stumpy mentioned is important) is one aspect. Another is rubber compounds. You now have a more durable compound on the centre of the tyre and more sticky compound(s) that balls up and self cleans and offers higher traction as you get to the edge for better lean angles.

Also the tyres themselves give the rider much better feedback.

Even in the last couple of years, there is noticable improvement in tyre feedback.

Same for pushy tyres: Big improvements in puncture resistance, grip, weight, rolling resistance, noise, cornering stability, shock absorbance, and aerodynamic drag. Even something like the material the inner-tube is made from can make a measurable difference.

Yeah, but let’s face it, except for puncture resistance, grip, weight, rolling resistance, noise, cornering stability, shock absorbance, and aerodynamic drag, fuck all has really been done in the area of tyres for the average push bike.

Wish my tyres fell into this puncture-resistant category.

Bubblecar said:

Wish my tyres fell into this puncture-resistant category.

blink

…and lose the incredible humourous aspect? Come now, the fun and frivolity your tyres have provided to this forum over the years….priceless.

That bike is still in the sunroom enjoying its status as a useless ornament.

I’ve decided I’m not going to replace the rear inner tube until I’ve lost about 30 kgs of weight.

A 130kg rider + about 20kg of shopping was probably putting too much strain on the tyres, such that riding over a shard of glass was more likely to pierce the innards.

Bubblecar said:

Wish my tyres fell into this puncture-resistant category.

I’m only speculating because I don’t know exactly which tyres your bike uses, but you will probably find there’s much better options than the factory standard: Tubeless tyres with liners that seal around a penetrating object or a liquid sealing compound that fills any holes, solid tyres that are full of foam, tyres with reinforced puncture-proofing belts, tubes that are super soft and slippery (so they deform rather than puncturing)… I’m sure there’s more.

The best you can get out of a standard tyre will be at the maximum safe pressure, with an old tube slit and used as a liner between the tube and tyre, and plenty of talcum powder inside the whole assembly.

Bubblecar said:

A 130kg rider + about 20kg of shopping was probably putting too much strain on the tyres, such that riding over a shard of glass was more likely to pierce the innards.

Not unless it was deforming to the point where it would pinch between the tread and the rim. Counter-intuitive as it might be, more pressure = better puncture resistance.

I was considering the foam-filled solid tyres, but a bike repair shop I contacted told me that although they can order them, they don’t recommend them.

Apparently they’re very difficult to fit and tend to damage the wheel after a while.

Rule 303 said:

Bubblecar said:

A 130kg rider + about 20kg of shopping was probably putting too much strain on the tyres, such that riding over a shard of glass was more likely to pierce the innards.

Not unless it was deforming to the point where it would pinch between the tread and the rim. Counter-intuitive as it might be, more pressure = better puncture resistance.

More pressure within the tube, I assume you mean. But I would have thought more pressure from the load on the wheels would be working against the tyre pressure.

A little 10-year-old girl was walking home, alone, from school one day, when a big man on a black motorcycle pulls up beside her. After following along for a while, turns to her and asks,

“Hey there little girl, do you want to go for a ride?”

“NO!” says the little girl as she keeps on walking.

The motorcyclist again pulls up beside her and asks, “Hey little girl, I will give you $10 if you hop on the back.”

“NO!” says the little girl again as she hurries down the street.

The motorcyclist pulls up beside the little girl again and says,

“Okay kid, my last offer! I’ll give you 20 Bucks and a big bag of candy if you just hop on the back of my bike.”

Finally, the little girl stops and turns towards him and screams out…

“Look Dad, you’re the one who bought the Honda instead of the Harley …YOU RIDE IT!!”

Bubblecar said:

More pressure within the tube, I assume you mean. But I would have thought more pressure from the load on the wheels would be working against the tyre pressure.

If you want to get right into the nitty-gritty, best performance seems to be achieved at whatever pressure produces a 15% drop in tyre height at full load*. You can find references and calculators and such by searching on those terms. Some people will vary that a little to get improvements in comfort, rolling resistance, and so on.

*So long as the tyre is below its maximum safe pressure, and speed and heat are not excessive, obviously.

sibeen said:

Yeah, but let’s face it, except for puncture resistance, grip, weight, rolling resistance, noise, cornering stability, shock absorbance, and aerodynamic drag, fuck all has really been done in the area of tyres for the average push bike.

You missed kevlar. Average push bike tyres are the only type of tyre for which kevlar has now become very popular.

Just have wider wheels and lighter alloy

3D printing is time consuming and it has to been calibrated on a regular basis.