Although fatbergs are composed of various materials, wetwipes are the key contributors to the existence of fatbergs as they form a rag ball that traps the other materials, and clearing from the sewerage systems costs over 15 million dollars per annum in Australia, and billions of dollars worldwide.

https://www.choice.com.au/health-and-body/beauty-and-personal-care/skin-care-and-cosmetics/articles/flushable-wipes
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-16/sewage-fatbergs-fat-down-sink-face-wipes-quu/8126878
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2696552/fatberg-found-in-sewer-stroud-gloucestershire/
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/10/are-wet-wipes-wrecking-the-worlds-sewers/504098/

Wet wipes are currently flushable but not biodegradable or dispersable in the short term.

Would it be possible to design a short-term biodegradable wet wipe ?

dv said:

Although fatbergs are composed of various materials, wetwipes are the key contributors to the existence of fatbergs as they form a rag ball that traps the other materials, and clearing from the sewerage systems costs over 15 million dollars per annum in Australia, and billions of dollars worldwide.

https://www.choice.com.au/health-and-body/beauty-and-personal-care/skin-care-and-cosmetics/articles/flushable-wipes
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-16/sewage-fatbergs-fat-down-sink-face-wipes-quu/8126878
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2696552/fatberg-found-in-sewer-stroud-gloucestershire/
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/10/are-wet-wipes-wrecking-the-worlds-sewers/504098/

Wet wipes are currently flushable but not biodegradable or dispersable in the short term.

Would it be possible to design a short-term biodegradable wet wipe ?

The only way I can envisage this happening is a complement chemical is to be used with the wetwipes i.e a dual function cleaning product interacts with the cellulose fibres (perhaps) of wet wipes that breakdowns on contact with the treated water that causes the wipes to breakdown.

Because the wipes are sitting in a chemical prior to usage but this chemical does not breakdown as pointed out by the articles.

I would ask is there a chemical that breaksdowns cellulose fibres and can this product double as a solvent to be used as a toilet cleaning product?

> Would it be possible to design a short-term biodegradable wet wipe ?

Condoms are more of a problem.

Do you want to try designing a biodegradable condom?

mollwollfumble said:

> Would it be possible to design a short-term biodegradable wet wipe ?

Condoms are more of a problem.

Do you want to try designing a biodegradable condom?

The Catholics have those.

Would these be helpful or create a hazard worse than wetwipes?

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/bk-2010-1033.ch001

There is still no consensus about the processes necessary to disrupt the
hydrogen bond system of cellulose to initiate solvation of the cellulose chains.
Some very basic ideas on different possible mechanisms have been published. In
1980 Turbak (7) divided cellulose solvents into four main categories based on the
possible interactions of cellulose with solvents:
- Cellulose is acting as a base, the solvent is an acid, e.g. H2SO4, trifluoroacetic
acid,
- Cellulose is acting as an acid, the solvent is a base, e.g. KOH, Triton,
- Cellulose is a ligand, the solvent is a complexing agent, e.g. Cuam, Cadoxen,
- Cellulose is a reactive compound, it is converted to a soluble transient
derivative or ntermediate, e.g. xanthate, trifluoroacetate.
Philipp modified this system and categorized cellulose

I wonder whether people could just use a soft but thick layer of toilet paper, that they wet with water prior to use.

mollwollfumble said:

> Would it be possible to design a short-term biodegradable wet wipe ?

Condoms are more of a problem.

Do you want to try designing a biodegradable condom?

Condoms are more commonly chucked in the bin rather than flushed.

My wet wipes go in the biohazard bin along with other disposable products containing biofluids.

monkey skipper said:

I would ask is there a chemical that breaksdowns cellulose fibres and can this product double as a solvent to be used as a toilet cleaning product?

Knee jerk reaction was “oh no, there are far too many dangerous chemicals in sewage already, starting with sodium chloride and passing through sodium hydroxide”. Sewage has to be detoxified before disposal, and some of my sewage gets reused as fertilizer for food crops.

On the other hand, cellulase may be relatively harmless.

How are they made? Might just need shorter fibres in the wet wipe bound with paper so when the paper part breaks down the shorter fibres can pass through the sewage.

I’ve never really considered sodium chloride a highly dangerous component of sewage.

AwesomeO said:

How are they made? Might just need shorter fibres in the wet wipe bound with paper so when the paper part breaks down the shorter fibres can pass through the sewage.

Or perhaps make them in narrow panels connected by highly soluble strips.

Maybe they need to give some sort of disposal instructions on the pack – like big bold letters saying DO NOT FLUSH USED WIPES DOWN THE LOO.

or perhaps a leaflet from the water utility with a list of things not to flush, and threatening violence agaonst those that do.

dv said:

I wonder whether people could just use a soft but thick layer of toilet paper, that they wet with water prior to use.

There could be an invention waiting to happen here, Daz. I’m seeing a combination toilet roll holder / mister that sprays your choice of three different sanitising/perfuming/moisturising mists onto the paper.

party_pants said:

Maybe they need to give some sort of disposal instructions on the pack – like big bold letters saying DO NOT FLUSH USED WIPES DOWN THE LOO.

or perhaps a leaflet from the water utility with a list of things not to flush, and threatening violence agaonst those that do.

Well at the moment what they have is big letters saying “FLUSHABLE”.

Which is technically true. It is physically possible to flush these down the toilet.

party_pants said:

Maybe they need to give some sort of disposal instructions on the pack – like big bold letters saying DO NOT FLUSH USED WIPES DOWN THE LOO.

or perhaps a leaflet from the water utility with a list of things not to flush, and threatening violence agaonst those that do.

there are signs in almost every public toilet I go into about not flushing sanitary products down the toilet. This is stuff they drill into girls from the moment it’s needed, and there are appropriate bins for the task…. yet these signs still exist. What we need is a big automated hand to come out and slap people who flush this stuff… words (even in all caps) just don’t seem to work

dv said:

party_pants said:

Maybe they need to give some sort of disposal instructions on the pack – like big bold letters saying DO NOT FLUSH USED WIPES DOWN THE LOO.

or perhaps a leaflet from the water utility with a list of things not to flush, and threatening violence agaonst those that do.

Well at the moment what they have is big letters saying “FLUSHABLE”.

Which is technically true. It is physically possible to flush these down the toilet.

Simple, Tell them their product is going to get banned from sale unless they change the packaging.

problem solved. (FIGJAM)

party_pants said:

Maybe they need to give some sort of disposal instructions on the pack – like big bold letters saying DO NOT FLUSH USED WIPES DOWN THE LOO.

or perhaps a leaflet from the water utility with a list of things not to flush, and threatening violence agaonst those that do.

That sort of stuff doesn’t really work, people will still flush them…unless you can devise a system where it blocks their own pipes and they have to call a plumber.

Better to fix the product or a simple fix at the sewage end.

One thing I am thinking of is if they have a natural inclination to get caught on strainers and such is to design a strainer that will trap them, maybe have it in a settling pond, and maybe that strainer can then spin them off, or fit into a key under pressure that pushes them off.

Or maybe have sharp blender at the bottom of the s-bend, like a waste disposal system, to shred it all before it gets to the sewerage system.

dv said:

Or maybe have sharp blender at the bottom of the s-bend, like a waste disposal system, to shred it all before it gets to the sewerage system.

I would still clump together at some stage.. maybe just stop production. Toilet paper has been fine for 150 years

Arts said:

What we need is a big automated hand to come out and slap people who flush this stuff… words (even in all caps) just don’t seem to work

How to design such a system without invading privacy??

party_pants said:

Arts said:

What we need is a big automated hand to come out and slap people who flush this stuff… words (even in all caps) just don’t seem to work

How to design such a system without invading privacy??

It might be an employment opportunity for many

Or perhaps have sewerbots patrolling the pipes, constantly detecting and clearing bergs

dv said:

Or perhaps have sewerbots patrolling the pipes, constantly detecting and clearing bergs

You’re going all Wookie on this. You only have a $15m budget for this problem.

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

Or perhaps have sewerbots patrolling the pipes, constantly detecting and clearing bergs

You’re going all Wookie on this. You only have a $15m budget for this problem.

You, Sir, are no fun.

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

Or perhaps have sewerbots patrolling the pipes, constantly detecting and clearing bergs

You’re going all Wookie on this. You only have a $15m budget for this problem.

When you put it like that, perhaps the solution is to accept these blockages and apply a tax on the wipes to raise $15 million per year.

dv said:

I wonder whether people could just use a soft but thick layer of toilet paper, that they wet with water prior to use.

I use the standard roll of paper that is sold in numbers close to that of toilet paper. Dip it in water and it scrubs things up well. Then it goes through my compost. People brought up with septic tanks simply don’t put anything down the toilet other than what is meant to be there.

It is as much about the flush it away syndrome as it is about what is being flushed away.

dv said:

Or perhaps have sewerbots patrolling the pipes, constantly detecting and clearing bergs

I was working with a team in CSIRO who were designing and building a sewerbot. It was a really great design, with the option of using the flow of water to power it in the opposite direction, upstream. They were also into machine vision, automatic video processing to identify problems with the sewer wall that needed repairs.

mollwollfumble said:

…with the option of using the flow of water to power it in the opposite direction, upstream.

Can you expand a little on how this worked? Was there a second, on-board source of power and the water flow was used to supplement this?

esselte said:

mollwollfumble said:

…with the option of using the flow of water to power it in the opposite direction, upstream.

Can you expand a little on how this worked? Was there a second, on-board source of power and the water flow was used to supplement this?

As the water flowed past it turned a propeller. The rapidly turning propeller was geared down to power slowly moving wheels. The energy extracted by the propeller was sufficient to overcome the water drag on the robot allowing it to drive upstream.

It’s a brilliant concept, sort of like how a yacht can sail into the wind.

A “sewer war” has been launched by British engineers on a “monster” fatberg as heavy as 11 double-decker buses that has clogged a Victorian-era sewer tunnel in London.

The 250-metre-long fatberg — a mass of congealed fat, wet wipes, nappies and condoms — is as hard as concrete and Thames Water officials said it was likely to take three weeks to dissolve

-http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/a-total-monster-fatberg-clogging-london-sewer/8933254—

Hard as concrete? Damn.

dv said:

A “sewer war” has been launched by British engineers on a “monster” fatberg as heavy as 11 double-decker buses that has clogged a Victorian-era sewer tunnel in London.

The 250-metre-long fatberg — a mass of congealed fat, wet wipes, nappies and condoms — is as hard as concrete and Thames Water officials said it was likely to take three weeks to dissolve

-http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/a-total-monster-fatberg-clogging-london-sewer/8933254—

Hard as concrete? Damn.

Maybe they can sell it to the orange dumpster fire for the construction of his stoopid wall.

dv said:

A “sewer war” has been launched by British engineers on a “monster” fatberg as heavy as 11 double-decker buses that has clogged a Victorian-era sewer tunnel in London.

The 250-metre-long fatberg — a mass of congealed fat, wet wipes, nappies and condoms — is as hard as concrete and Thames Water officials said it was likely to take three weeks to dissolve

-http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/a-total-monster-fatberg-clogging-london-sewer/8933254—

Hard as concrete? Damn.

You’re right. Most dams are concrete.

kii said:

dv said:

A “sewer war” has been launched by British engineers on a “monster” fatberg as heavy as 11 double-decker buses that has clogged a Victorian-era sewer tunnel in London.

The 250-metre-long fatberg — a mass of congealed fat, wet wipes, nappies and condoms — is as hard as concrete and Thames Water officials said it was likely to take three weeks to dissolve

-http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/a-total-monster-fatberg-clogging-london-sewer/8933254—

Hard as concrete? Damn.

Maybe they can sell it to the orange dumpster fire for the construction of his stoopid wall.

nice one

Tamb said:

dv said:

A “sewer war” has been launched by British engineers on a “monster” fatberg as heavy as 11 double-decker buses that has clogged a Victorian-era sewer tunnel in London.

The 250-metre-long fatberg — a mass of congealed fat, wet wipes, nappies and condoms — is as hard as concrete and Thames Water officials said it was likely to take three weeks to dissolve

-http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/a-total-monster-fatberg-clogging-london-sewer/8933254—

Hard as concrete? Damn.

You’re right. Most dams are concrete.

Shit dam!

dv said:

kii said:

dv said:

A “sewer war” has been launched by British engineers on a “monster” fatberg as heavy as 11 double-decker buses that has clogged a Victorian-era sewer tunnel in London.

The 250-metre-long fatberg — a mass of congealed fat, wet wipes, nappies and condoms — is as hard as concrete and Thames Water officials said it was likely to take three weeks to dissolve

-http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/a-total-monster-fatberg-clogging-london-sewer/8933254—

Hard as concrete? Damn.

Maybe they can sell it to the orange dumpster fire for the construction of his stoopid wall.

nice one

Except we’ll get the stench on hot days when the winds come from the S, SE or SW.

Imagine being the poor persons have to remove them, apparently they stink badly as well,

kii said:

dv said:

kii said:

Maybe they can sell it to the orange dumpster fire for the construction of his stoopid wall.

nice one

Except we’ll get the stench on hot days when the winds come from the S, SE or SW.

But the Mexicans will get it from all the other directions.

Cymek said:

Imagine being the poor persons have to remove them, apparently they stink badly as well,

Mmmm…the grease trap in a back lane behind a restaurant. In summer.

Nope, nope, nope……

Tamb said:

kii said:

dv said:

nice one

Except we’ll get the stench on hot days when the winds come from the S, SE or SW.

But the Mexicans will get it from all the other directions.

Mexicans and Hispanics live north and south of the border.

kii said:

Tamb said:

kii said:

Except we’ll get the stench on hot days when the winds come from the S, SE or SW.

But the Mexicans will get it from all the other directions.

Mexicans and Hispanics live north and south of the border.

I meant the ones who haven’t emigrated.

Tamb said:

kii said:

Tamb said:

But the Mexicans will get it from all the other directions.

Mexicans and Hispanics live north and south of the border.

I meant the ones who haven’t emigrated.

Many of them cross over to work, legally and illegally.