I am presently reading Mary Roach’s book “Grunt. The curious science of humans at war” All of her books have been good reads. However, I think Rule in particular might be interested in this one. I love her description of the fight or flight response:

“…..Whatever you wish to call it, here is a nice, concise summary, courtesy of Siddle: “You become fast, strong and dumb”. Our hardwired survival strategy evolved back when threats took the form of man eating mammals, when hurling a rock superhumanly hard or climbing a tree superhumanly fast gave you the edge that might keep you alive. A burst of adrenaline prompts a cortisol dump to the bloodstream. The cortisol sends the lungs into overdrive to bring in more oxygen, and the heartrate doubles or triples to deliver it more swiftly. Meanwhile the liver spews glucose, more fuel for the feats at hand. To get the goods where the body assumes they are needed, blood vessels in the large muscles of the arms and legs dilate, while vessels serving lower priority organs (the gut, for example, and the skin) constrict. The pre-frontal cortex, a major blood guzzler, also gets rationed. Goodbye, reasoning and analysis. See you later, fine motor skills. None of that mattered much to early man. You don’t need to weigh your options in the face of a snarling predator, and you don’t have time. With the growing sophistication and miniaturization of medical equipment, however, it matters very much to a corpsman. Making things worse, the adrenaline that primes the muscles also enhances their nerve activity. It makes you tremble and shake. Add to this the motions and vibrations of a medevac flight, and you start to gain an appreciation for the military medic’s challenges.”

It really is an amazing thing, how your body reacts to the types of stresses that could easily kill you if the body didn’t take over and direct the mind.

I guess there are some situations there isn’t time to write a book about what one might do.

Made great advances in popular culture has the flight of fight response. Sounds like a switch.

A few years back on a lilo drift down the Yarra in Warrandyte I climbed the steep shore to pee and lost my footing. Even though I only fell about 2m, and largely fell on my feet, I immediately experienced an intense burst of adrenaline that left me breathless with my heart racing like no tomorrow.

Twas like nothing I’d ever experienced before.

Flight person, me.

Peak Warming Man said:

Flight person, me.

You’re a lover, not a fighter?

Peak Warming Man said:

Flight person, me.

I have been at times, quite inexplicably. I remember once at a family gathering, Mum fainted and I immediately ran out of the house. Couldn’t explain it, and everyone was scornful.

• I have been at times, quite inexplicably. I remember once at a family gathering, Mum fainted and I immediately ran out of the house. Couldn’t explain it, and everyone was scornful.

You were trying to lead the way. They needed a leader! Someone to lead the way to safety. Because! Because, as the leader…if you die…then all hope is lost! Who would lead? The clown? Instead of castigating you, they should all be thanking you. What kind of a topsy-turvy world do we live in, where heroes are cast as villains? Brave men as cowards?

furious said:

• I have been at times, quite inexplicably. I remember once at a family gathering, Mum fainted and I immediately ran out of the house. Couldn’t explain it, and everyone was scornful.

You were trying to lead the way. They needed a leader! Someone to lead the way to safety. Because! Because, as the leader…if you die…then all hope is lost! Who would lead? The clown? Instead of castigating you, they should all be thanking you. What kind of a topsy-turvy world do we live in, where heroes are cast as villains? Brave men as cowards?

Hehehe, was just recalling that.

Phil_C said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Flight person, me.

You’re a lover, not a fighter?

nah, he’s a leaver not a fighter.

probably many shades of fight of flight (of limited usefulness the expression imo – the dichotomy, the switch), and doubtful to generalize is accompanied by some sort of cognitive impairment (necessarily), certainly there’s maybe no time to deliberate in ones typical monologue, the usual wankery of consulting the executive voice held so dear.

the ideas out there such and such was done without thinking, but a look at many things done in time-sensitive situations would probably reveal thought must have been involved in whatever.

you know, for example, situations might require both fight and flight.

• you know, for example, situations might require both fight and flight.

Like the Battle of Britain…

furious said:

• you know, for example, situations might require both fight and flight.

Like the Battle of Britain…

:-)

creatures putting distance between each other, or and pumping selves up, these things feature more commonly in shades that are not a this or that response.

The tv series Alphas had a man with an ability to turn it on or off

Malik Yoba as Bill Harken – A former FBI agent with the ability to activate his endocrinal “fight or flight” response at will, resulting in increased durability, endurance, speed and strength. His diagnosis is enhanced strength from flight-or-fight response. He cannot keep this up for very long, however, due to the stress it causes his body. He was suspended from the FBI due to anger issues resulting from the stress of using his ability. He is rude and pushy when it comes to working with his teammates initially, specifically Rachel and Gary, but as season one continues he is no longer known as “mean Bill”.

I think in that example, I had underlying anxiety about mum’s health and assumed she’d suddenly dropped dead.

Still doesn’t explain how running out of the house would have helped :)

• but as season one continues he is no longer known as “mean Bill”

After that he becomes known simply as “Average Bill”…

Bubblecar said:

I think in that example, I had underlying anxiety about mum’s health and assumed she’d suddenly dropped dead.

Still doesn’t explain how running out of the house would have helped :)

To some extent health is managed by specialists, as is death, so it’s like medicalized, the territory of the witchdoctors, which I guess can put normal help (attending) in the territory of incompetence. You know, like being transported into the pilot’s seat of the space shuttle during reentry.

Terrified of corpses, especially warm corpses you might feel like you’re not doing enough to help get the creature breathing again. You’re near too, someone might even wonder if you were responsible, or did enough.

I get larry from the lady’s room most mornings, during which I ask you ok?, I am checking dear lady’s alive (and well). That she might have died is one thing, that there will be quite a fuss about it (by others) is something different and more. So there’s the social and cultural aspects.

Only dead body i’ve ever touched was my lad, who’d been in the fridge for weeks following autopsy etc. I do wish i’d dug the hole myself, and buried him in the yard here.

Point being our responses to many things (and views of life and death – and theories of motivation), are highly influenced by culture – the impositions of culture(or social environment more locally – situational forces, mediated so.

So you know, if your mum did die at that moment, and it wasn’t a crime to quietly dig a hole a bury her, you might not have run out of the house.

furious said:

• I have been at times, quite inexplicably. I remember once at a family gathering, Mum fainted and I immediately ran out of the house. Couldn’t explain it, and everyone was scornful.

You were trying to lead the way. They needed a leader! Someone to lead the way to safety. Because! Because, as the leader…if you die…then all hope is lost! Who would lead? The clown? Instead of castigating you, they should all be thanking you. What kind of a topsy-turvy world do we live in, where heroes are cast as villains? Brave men as cowards?

Hahahahahahahaha!

Michael V said:

furious said:

• I have been at times, quite inexplicably. I remember once at a family gathering, Mum fainted and I immediately ran out of the house. Couldn’t explain it, and everyone was scornful.

You were trying to lead the way. They needed a leader! Someone to lead the way to safety. Because! Because, as the leader…if you die…then all hope is lost! Who would lead? The clown? Instead of castigating you, they should all be thanking you. What kind of a topsy-turvy world do we live in, where heroes are cast as villains? Brave men as cowards?

Hahahahahahahaha!

Ah, OK. It is a Seinfeld quote. I thought that it was your immediate response. Still funny, though.

http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheFire.html

According to modern psychological thought, there are four: fight, flight, freeze, or feint; feint involves pretending to be dead.

Fight equates to anger and flight equates to fear, these are chemical changes in the body reacting to perception stimuli processed and stored in the brain.

In a modern world one can have an advantage being able to control emotions. A lot of people have difficulty with it. I certainly do.

>In a modern world one can have an advantage being able to control emotions

does this mean emotions are all and always some beast to be controlled, and repressed?

transition said:

>In a modern world one can have an advantage being able to control emotions

does this mean emotions are all and always some beast to be controlled, and repressed?

No, not at all, it depends on the situation.

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

>In a modern world one can have an advantage being able to control emotions

does this mean emotions are all and always some beast to be controlled, and repressed?

No, not at all, it depends on the situation.

you ever dig into your cognitive tools with emotions?

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

>In a modern world one can have an advantage being able to control emotions

does this mean emotions are all and always some beast to be controlled, and repressed?

No, not at all, it depends on the situation.

you ever dig into your cognitive tools with emotions?

I find anger can generate a lot of ideas.

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

No, not at all, it depends on the situation.

you ever dig into your cognitive tools with emotions?

I find anger can generate a lot of ideas.

what’s anger before it satisfies the definition of anger, presumably it can (and perhaps most often is) something lesser?

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

No, not at all, it depends on the situation.

you ever dig into your cognitive tools with emotions?

I find anger can generate a lot of ideas.

In wartime nobody quibbles about money spent on science.

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

you ever dig into your cognitive tools with emotions?

I find anger can generate a lot of ideas.

In wartime nobody quibbles about money spent on science.

dunno if that’s true, there was the development of the bomb the english destroyed German dams, that got expensive and questioned, and there was that machine for cracking the german codes. Money’s in short supply often in such circumstances.

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

you ever dig into your cognitive tools with emotions?

I find anger can generate a lot of ideas.

what’s anger before it satisfies the definition of anger, presumably it can (and perhaps most often is) something lesser?

Maybe it starts as a dissatisfaction with an ethical or logical issue.

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I find anger can generate a lot of ideas.

what’s anger before it satisfies the definition of anger, presumably it can (and perhaps most often is) something lesser?

Maybe it starts as a dissatisfaction with an ethical or logical issue.

maybe it’s related determination.

It’s interesting stuff.

Athletes have attempted to invoke a release pre-event (by various bizarre methods) to get a performance advantage. Not sure it’s ever worked… I bet Pavlov could pull it off. ;-)

I still get it when the tones for the ‘Emergency’ channel fire off on the pager but the physiological symptoms are always back to normal within a minute or two.

The exercises Mary Roach was observing were their best effort to acclimatize the medics so they could do their job. I think you would find most of this book interesting.

:)