Good Scientist Cartoon. 66th set of five

Good Scientist Cartoon. 67th set of five

333.. I like the way the figure right has left the building.

331.. is potentially humorous if it can describe the methods Colesworths uses to kill fruit.

>100 years ago, good classical music died

No, there has been magnificent music created within the last 100 years, by such major composers as Bartók, Shostakovich, Stravinsky and many excellent not-so-big names. Even Ravel still produced excellent works after 1917.

Yeah, that Elgar, what a fucking hack.

dv said:

Yeah, that Elgar, what a fucking hack.

Yes, plenty of big British names. Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Britten, Walton, dozens of good lesser names.

Bubblecar said:

>100 years ago, good classical music died

No, there has been magnificent music created within the last 100 years, by such major composers as Bartók, Shostakovich, Stravinsky and many excellent not-so-big names. Even Ravel still produced excellent works after 1917.

but he drove his Chevy to the levy and it was dry…

…and of course all the best Australian composers worked within the last 100 years.

Bubblecar said:

…and of course all the best Australian composers worked within the last 100 years.

…and Americans for that matter.

Bubblecar said:

Bubblecar said:

…and of course all the best Australian composers worked within the last 100 years.

…and Americans for that matter.

Were there really no good American composers before July 31st 1917?

I wonder why not.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

Bubblecar said:

…and of course all the best Australian composers worked within the last 100 years.

…and Americans for that matter.

Were there really no good American composers before July 31st 1917?

I wonder why not.

Well some of those composing after July 31st 1917 were composing before that date :)

But Americans composers who were already dead by then were fairly minor names. Not many people have heard of them

Bubblecar said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

…and Americans for that matter.

Were there really no good American composers before July 31st 1917?

I wonder why not.

Well some of those composing after July 31st 1917 were composing before that date :)

But Americans composers who were already dead by then were fairly minor names. Not many people have heard of them decomposing….

stumpy_seahorse said:

Bubblecar said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Were there really no good American composers before July 31st 1917?

I wonder why not.

Well some of those composing after July 31st 1917 were composing before that date :)

But Americans composers who were already dead by then were fairly minor names. Not many people have heard of them decomposing….

Yes, musicians decompose after death, whereas teachers degrade.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yes, musicians decompose after death, whereas teachers degrade.

*golf clap *

The Rev Dodgson said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

Bubblecar said:

Well some of those composing after July 31st 1917 were composing before that date :)

But Americans composers who were already dead by then were fairly minor names. Not many people have heard of them decomposing….

Dear oh dear………….

Yes, musicians decompose after death, whereas teachers degrade.

Bubblecar said:

>100 years ago, good classical music died

No, there has been magnificent music created within the last 100 years, by such major composers as Bartók, Shostakovich, Stravinsky and many excellent not-so-big names. Even Ravel still produced excellent works after 1917.

> Bartók

Makes me think of the equivalent of painting’s Vincent. Some good stuff. Totally novel. Wrote his best stuff before 1917 though, didn’t he? His folk song arrangements were earlier than that. Mikrokosmos was later, written between 1926 and 1939.

> Shostakovich

I used to like listening to Shostakovich. But now I can’t remember anything he wrote.

> Stravinsky.

His “Rite of Spring” is right on the edge of what I can stand in terms of atonality. I like it, but not anything weirder than that. It was written in 1913, before 1917.

Bubblecar said:

…and of course all the best Australian composers worked within the last 100 years.

Can’t stand Sculthorpe. Grainger is most famous for rehashing old folksongs. Hyde has written some good stuff, but I wouldn’t count her as one of the greats. Burrows isn’t classical. My wife has written some nice classical/pop/jazz crossover music, but who’s heard of her?

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

>100 years ago, good classical music died

No, there has been magnificent music created within the last 100 years, by such major composers as Bartók, Shostakovich, Stravinsky and many excellent not-so-big names. Even Ravel still produced excellent works after 1917.

> Bartók

Makes me think of the equivalent of painting’s Vincent. Some good stuff. Totally novel. Wrote his best stuff before 1917 though, didn’t he? His folk song arrangements were earlier than that. Mikrokosmos was later, written between 1926 and 1939.

> Shostakovich

I used to like listening to Shostakovich. But now I can’t remember anything he wrote.

> Stravinsky.

His “Rite of Spring” is right on the edge of what I can stand in terms of atonality. I like it, but not anything weirder than that. It was written in 1913, before 1917.

There was vast amounts of more-or-less tonal music composed after 1917, plus much excellent music that is more-or-less atonal.

I would judge the 20th century to be musically much richer than the 19th.

I really like Prokofiev’s Romeo and Juliet and that’s from 1938.

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

…and of course all the best Australian composers worked within the last 100 years.

Can’t stand Sculthorpe. Grainger is most famous for rehashing old folksongs. Hyde has written some good stuff, but I wouldn’t count her as one of the greats. Burrows isn’t classical. My wife has written some nice classical/pop/jazz crossover music, but who’s heard of her?

Sculthorpe was a fine composer, so perhaps your tastes are rather narrow.

Here are some other big-name Aussie composers, all good although some are best known for fairly lightweight works:

http://www.limelightmagazine.com.au/australias-10-greatest-composers

Bubblecar said:

…and Americans for that matter.

Are there any good American classical composers after 1917?

Gottschalk was dead by 1869.

Copeland is pretty facile, I like his “Fanfare for the common man” but, well, it’s not great.

The less said about Cage the better.

Phil_C said:

I really like Prokofiev’s Romeo and Juliet and that’s from 1938.

Agree. Much Prokofiev is awful, but that one is good.

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

…and Americans for that matter.

Are there any good American classical composers after 1917?

Gottschalk was dead by 1869.

Copeland is pretty facile, I like his “Fanfare for the common man” but, well, it’s not great.

The less said about Cage the better.

John Cage composed some evocative music, as did Elliot Carter.

There were the more popular composers like Barber, Gershwin, Bernstein and the popular (if annoying) minimalists like Reich and Glass.

Many other lesser known names left a rich musical legacy, and of course there are plenty of fine US composers working today, and indeed fine composers all over the globe.

It’s a matter of putting a little effort into finding it and listening to it :)

Phil_C said:

I really like Prokofiev’s Romeo and Juliet and that’s from 1938.

The Dire Straits cover of it was decent….

A very conventional and pretty piece by John Cage: In A Landscape (1948)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wtmQkvX7A

Some of his more experimental gear was very influential and can be worth listening to when you’re in the mood.

But there was some junky stuff, yes :)

Bubblecar said:

mollwollfumble said:

Bubblecar said:

…and of course all the best Australian composers worked within the last 100 years.

Can’t stand Sculthorpe. Grainger is most famous for rehashing old folksongs. Hyde has written some good stuff, but I wouldn’t count her as one of the greats. Burrows isn’t classical. My wife has written some nice classical/pop/jazz crossover music, but who’s heard of her?

Sculthorpe was a fine composer, so perhaps your tastes are rather narrow.

Here are some other big-name Aussie composers, all good although some are best known for fairly lightweight works:

http://www.limelightmagazine.com.au/australias-10-greatest-composers

Have heard of Carl Vine and Nigel Westlake, but don’t remember anything by them. I should try listening to them again.

I was listening to an old Spanish classical composer on radio less than a week ago, and suddenly realised that it was in exactly in the style of Sculthorpe’s “Sun, Moon and Stars” suite, but the Spanish composer’s work was very much better. For example it actually had a melody. For every music style that Sculthorpe copied, the original music is better than Sculthorpe’s copy.

Fkn classic

> There were the more popular composers like Barber, Gershwin, Bernstein

Wouldn’t you say that they dabbled in classical rather than composed it?

eg. Gershwin’s “Concerto in F” seems to be his only classical piece, and it’s not as good as “Rhapsody in Blue”. His pop songs tend to be better known.

Tell you what. Give me a list of ten (or more) good youtube classical instrumental pieces after 1917 and I’ll listen to all of them from beginning to end.

mollwollfumble said:

> There were the more popular composers like Barber, Gershwin, Bernstein

Wouldn’t you say that they dabbled in classical rather than composed it?

eg. Gershwin’s “Concerto in F” seems to be his only classical piece, and it’s not as good as “Rhapsody in Blue”. His pop songs tend to be better known.

Tell you what. Give me a list of ten (or more) good youtube classical instrumental pieces after 1917 and I’ll listen to all of them from beginning to end.

I don’t like having to choose pieces – there’s far too much to choose from.

For example, all Shostakovich works date from after 1917 and include some of the finest symphonies & string quartets etc you’re ever likely to hear.

> A very conventional and pretty piece by John Cage: In A Landscape (1948) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wtmQkvX7A

Piano only, eh? I’ve composed better than that just sitting at the piano and playing arpeggios.

mollwollfumble said:

> A very conventional and pretty piece by John Cage: In A Landscape (1948) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wtmQkvX7A

Piano only, eh? I’ve composed better than that just sitting at the piano and playing arpeggios.

I don’t think so.

Now, modern music: just an easy laugh?
No. Bear in mind that we hear all the chaff
That history will sift from the good wheat —
Though, frankly, it’s a dubious conceit
That silent compositions by John Cage
Will suddenly be voted all the rage.
For those of you who’ve not heard Cage’s charms,
Here’s just a snippet: [about 10 seconds of silence]
Eat your heart out, Brahms.

Will serialists and minimalists survive,
And aleatorics oust Beethoven 5?
Will lovers in the future make a pass
To music by Steve Reich and Philip Glass?
Who knows, when even the most trusted critic,
When asked to be profound or analytic
About the latest sip from music’s cup
Asks, “Is this it, or are they tuning up?”

   — Who Pays the Piper? by Richard Stilgoe

I think what you can say is that the era in which great classical composers where world famous, even among people who are not into classical music, ended some time in the early 20th century. If you stopped someone at random and asked them to name all the classical composers they could think of, probably most of the lists would not include people still active after WWI. But it is not that people stopped making great classical music, it is just that fame changed.
(Exception to that might be composers of film scores. John Williams by any reasonable mark is a composer of classical music, and a good one, though I doubt afficionados would rank him among the greats.)

It is the same with science. I would guess that most people could not name a Nobel Prize winning scientist who was active after WW2, but scientists did not stop doing good work. They just stopped being famous among people not into science.

Bubblecar said:

mollwollfumble said:

> A very conventional and pretty piece by John Cage: In A Landscape (1948) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wtmQkvX7A

Piano only, eh? I’ve composed better than that just sitting at the piano and playing arpeggios.

I don’t think so.

I didn’t know you’d heard mollwoll’s arpeggios.

A lot of conflicting opinions in the comments, but I think the one that said if everything that he’d written had been in a similar style, then no-one would have heard of him, is undoubtedly true.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

mollwollfumble said:

> A very conventional and pretty piece by John Cage: In A Landscape (1948) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wtmQkvX7A

Piano only, eh? I’ve composed better than that just sitting at the piano and playing arpeggios.

I don’t think so.

I didn’t know you’d heard mollwoll’s arpeggios.

A lot of conflicting opinions in the comments, but I think the one that said if everything that he’d written had been in a similar style, then no-one would have heard of him, is undoubtedly true.

I’ve heard mollwoll claim all sorts of unlikely things :)

Bubblecar said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

I don’t think so.

I didn’t know you’d heard mollwoll’s arpeggios.

A lot of conflicting opinions in the comments, but I think the one that said if everything that he’d written had been in a similar style, then no-one would have heard of him, is undoubtedly true.

I’ve heard mollwoll claim all sorts of unlikely things :)

Can’t argue with that :)

dv said:

I think what you can say is that the era in which great classical composers where world famous, even among people who are not into classical music, ended some time in the early 20th century. If you stopped someone at random and asked them to name all the classical composers they could think of, probably most of the lists would not include people still active after WWI. But it is not that people stopped making great classical music, it is just that fame changed.
(Exception to that might be composers of film scores. John Williams by any reasonable mark is a composer of classical music, and a good one, though I doubt afficionados would rank him among the greats.)

It is the same with science. I would guess that most people could not name a Nobel Prize winning scientist who was active after WW2, but scientists did not stop doing good work. They just stopped being famous among people not into science.

:-)

Bubblecar said: The Rev Dodgson said: Bubblecar said:
I don’t think so.
I didn’t know you’d heard mollwoll’s arpeggios.
I’ve heard mollwoll claim all sorts of unlikely things :)
Can’t argue with that :)

Bubblecar is probably right about the arpeggios.

There was a time in my life, about 20 years ago, when I was composing quite decent atonal music for piano. Only one recording from that period still survives, and I haven’t listened to it lately so may be exaggerating. My opinion on music 20 years ago was “keys are for wimps”.

Just to show my ignorance of modern music:

How can the sound coming out of an instrument that produces fixed tones, be atonal?

Just to show my ignorance of modern music:

How can the sound coming out of an instrument that produces fixed tones, be atonal?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Just to show my ignorance of modern music:

How can the sound coming out of an instrument that produces fixed tones, be atonal?

Just slap the sides of the piano.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Just to show my ignorance of modern music:

How can the sound coming out of an instrument that produces fixed tones, be atonal?

It’s just a general term to describe music that wanders outside of traditional keys and diatonic structure, whether in a freely chromatic manner or just frequently enough to be thought deserving of the term.

I don’t know is jazz is atonal but when I was at Wagga we used to go regularly to an outside jazz session at a pub, good times but not because of the music, that just sounded like a racket.

Bubblecar said:

I don’t like having to choose pieces – there’s far too much to choose from.

For example, all Shostakovich works date from after 1917 and include some of the finest symphonies & string quartets etc you’re ever likely to hear.

Shostakovich. Noted.

Scrambled eggs on toast. First egg for the new season. It had to be etten.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Just to show my ignorance of modern music:

How can the sound coming out of an instrument that produces fixed tones, be atonal?

Just slap the sides of the piano.

Atonal is far too restrictive. I like to play around with a de-tuned prepared piano.

oh, sorry!

Ian said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Just to show my ignorance of modern music:

How can the sound coming out of an instrument that produces fixed tones, be atonal?

Just slap the sides of the piano.

Atonal is far too restrictive. I like to play around with a de-tuned prepared piano.

I’ve met a lot of those.

Good Scientist Cartoon. 68th set of five

338 very good.

I just have to work out how to apply it to 339.

338 reminds me a bit of..

Good Scientist Cartoon. 69th set of five.

I’ve stopped drawing new ones now. I’ll stop posting when I get to number 365. No longer posting to Facebook.