Just a few things I’ve been thinking, doing frequent rides up and down the very good bike paths around here. It strikes me that the bike paths are used mostly for recreation/fitness, not many use it as a form of transport.

So I got to thinking, what if you were allowed to use motorised bicycles, either small petrol or electric. What rules would apply?

Let’s say these are dedicated cycle only paths, not shared with pedestrians, not shared with other road traffic, grade separated etc. What rules would you suggest regards the following:

- maximum speeds (I have decided that fitting a speedo would be compulsory), I am thinking something like 50 km/h
- type of brakes. Would ordinary caliper type bicycle brakes be adequate for speeds of 50 km/h? Would we need something better like disc brakes on the rear wheels?
- Engine noise reduction. I have seen a couple of those 80cc bicycle motor kits. They are loud AF and would be no good if a hundred people an hour were using the bike path. Whats an acceptable noise level?
- Further modifications to the bicycle. Perhaps a mirror fitted on the right side (assuming keep left rule). Would brake lights be necessary at say 50 km/h? What type, LED?
- What would be the minimum age for someone to ride sensibly at 50 km/h on a powered bicycle. I don’t know – 12, 13, 14, 15 ??

Any ideas welcome.

This would be a dedicated bicycle only roadway. Outside of this bit of road the riders would need to turn off the engine and use only pedal power. No motorcycles or scooters allowed, just for argument sake for now – even though it technically could be open to scooters limited to the same speed limit.

party_pants said:

Just a few things I’ve been thinking, doing frequent rides up and down the very good bike paths around here. It strikes me that the bike paths are used mostly for recreation/fitness, not many use it as a form of transport.

So I got to thinking, what if you were allowed to use motorised bicycles, either small petrol or electric. What rules would apply?

Let’s say these are dedicated cycle only paths, not shared with pedestrians, not shared with other road traffic, grade separated etc. What rules would you suggest regards the following:

- maximum speeds (I have decided that fitting a speedo would be compulsory), I am thinking something like 50 km/h
- type of brakes. Would ordinary caliper type bicycle brakes be adequate for speeds of 50 km/h? Would we need something better like disc brakes on the rear wheels?
- Engine noise reduction. I have seen a couple of those 80cc bicycle motor kits. They are loud AF and would be no good if a hundred people an hour were using the bike path. Whats an acceptable noise level?
- Further modifications to the bicycle. Perhaps a mirror fitted on the right side (assuming keep left rule). Would brake lights be necessary at say 50 km/h? What type, LED?
- What would be the minimum age for someone to ride sensibly at 50 km/h on a powered bicycle. I don’t know – 12, 13, 14, 15 ??

Any ideas welcome.

This would be a dedicated bicycle only roadway. Outside of this bit of road the riders would need to turn off the engine and use only pedal power. No motorcycles or scooters allowed, just for argument sake for now – even though it technically could be open to scooters limited to the same speed limit.

I have an electric bicycle, which is dependent on the size of the battery. Anything over 250 watts in WA is not allowed on any road, whilst the 250 watt is classified as a petal assist and here can be rode on cycle paths, but speeds would be less than 50 km/hr. I would think a motorised bike you would have problems on a bike path, but again it would likely depend on the size of the engine.

party_pants said:

Just a few things I’ve been thinking, doing frequent rides up and down the very good bike paths around here. It strikes me that the bike paths are used mostly for recreation/fitness, not many use it as a form of transport.

So I got to thinking, what if you were allowed to use motorised bicycles, either small petrol or electric. What rules would apply?

Let’s say these are dedicated cycle only paths, not shared with pedestrians, not shared with other road traffic, grade separated etc. What rules would you suggest regards the following:

- maximum speeds (I have decided that fitting a speedo would be compulsory), I am thinking something like 50 km/h
- type of brakes. Would ordinary caliper type bicycle brakes be adequate for speeds of 50 km/h? Would we need something better like disc brakes on the rear wheels?
- Engine noise reduction. I have seen a couple of those 80cc bicycle motor kits. They are loud AF and would be no good if a hundred people an hour were using the bike path. Whats an acceptable noise level?
- Further modifications to the bicycle. Perhaps a mirror fitted on the right side (assuming keep left rule). Would brake lights be necessary at say 50 km/h? What type, LED?
- What would be the minimum age for someone to ride sensibly at 50 km/h on a powered bicycle. I don’t know – 12, 13, 14, 15 ??

Any ideas welcome.

This would be a dedicated bicycle only roadway. Outside of this bit of road the riders would need to turn off the engine and use only pedal power. No motorcycles or scooters allowed, just for argument sake for now – even though it technically could be open to scooters limited to the same speed limit.

Lets remember that cars are only supposed to go 50 in Bulit up suburban zones and 40 in school zones. I think a dedicated cycle path would still need to be slower…. because we all know that
Pedestrians don’t always stay off them

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Just a few things I’ve been thinking, doing frequent rides up and down the very good bike paths around here. It strikes me that the bike paths are used mostly for recreation/fitness, not many use it as a form of transport.

So I got to thinking, what if you were allowed to use motorised bicycles, either small petrol or electric. What rules would apply?

Let’s say these are dedicated cycle only paths, not shared with pedestrians, not shared with other road traffic, grade separated etc. What rules would you suggest regards the following:

- maximum speeds (I have decided that fitting a speedo would be compulsory), I am thinking something like 50 km/h
- type of brakes. Would ordinary caliper type bicycle brakes be adequate for speeds of 50 km/h? Would we need something better like disc brakes on the rear wheels?
- Engine noise reduction. I have seen a couple of those 80cc bicycle motor kits. They are loud AF and would be no good if a hundred people an hour were using the bike path. Whats an acceptable noise level?
- Further modifications to the bicycle. Perhaps a mirror fitted on the right side (assuming keep left rule). Would brake lights be necessary at say 50 km/h? What type, LED?
- What would be the minimum age for someone to ride sensibly at 50 km/h on a powered bicycle. I don’t know – 12, 13, 14, 15 ??

Any ideas welcome.

This would be a dedicated bicycle only roadway. Outside of this bit of road the riders would need to turn off the engine and use only pedal power. No motorcycles or scooters allowed, just for argument sake for now – even though it technically could be open to scooters limited to the same speed limit.

Lets remember that cars are only supposed to go 50 in Bulit up suburban zones and 40 in school zones. I think a dedicated cycle path would still need to be slower…. because we all know that
Pedestrians don’t always stay off them

Yes fifty k’s an hour on a bicycle is very fast, most people would not go even half of that speed.

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Just a few things I’ve been thinking, doing frequent rides up and down the very good bike paths around here. It strikes me that the bike paths are used mostly for recreation/fitness, not many use it as a form of transport.

So I got to thinking, what if you were allowed to use motorised bicycles, either small petrol or electric. What rules would apply?

Let’s say these are dedicated cycle only paths, not shared with pedestrians, not shared with other road traffic, grade separated etc. What rules would you suggest regards the following:

- maximum speeds (I have decided that fitting a speedo would be compulsory), I am thinking something like 50 km/h
- type of brakes. Would ordinary caliper type bicycle brakes be adequate for speeds of 50 km/h? Would we need something better like disc brakes on the rear wheels?
- Engine noise reduction. I have seen a couple of those 80cc bicycle motor kits. They are loud AF and would be no good if a hundred people an hour were using the bike path. Whats an acceptable noise level?
- Further modifications to the bicycle. Perhaps a mirror fitted on the right side (assuming keep left rule). Would brake lights be necessary at say 50 km/h? What type, LED?
- What would be the minimum age for someone to ride sensibly at 50 km/h on a powered bicycle. I don’t know – 12, 13, 14, 15 ??

Any ideas welcome.

This would be a dedicated bicycle only roadway. Outside of this bit of road the riders would need to turn off the engine and use only pedal power. No motorcycles or scooters allowed, just for argument sake for now – even though it technically could be open to scooters limited to the same speed limit.

Lets remember that cars are only supposed to go 50 in Bulit up suburban zones and 40 in school zones. I think a dedicated cycle path would still need to be slower…. because we all know that
Pedestrians don’t always stay off them

Yes fifty k’s an hour on a bicycle is very fast, most people would not go even half of that speed.

I’m open on the speed question. Perhaps down to 40, maybe even 30. I am wondering what is the butterzone for speed that would make it practicable as a form of transport but reasonably safe without needing too extensive modifications to an ordinary bicycle.

I rarely get above 25 km/h, usual sustained speed is about 20, but I ride a standard old school mountain bike. I get overtaken easily by the lycra-warriors with their light-weight racing bikes. Some of them must be pushing 30+ sustained speed.

I was thinking of a new category of “bicycle expressway” or something like that. The usual 200 W limit would not apply to this category. You ride along your ordinary suburban roads with engine off till you get to the entry gate for this special bicycle expressway and only use your engine on this pathway until you get to your exit, then you switch it off again. Sort of like a mini freeway system just for bicycles.

Perhaps 50 km/h is a bit too fast. But I’m interested in the principle.

Based on the bike paths around here that run along the freeway reserve, They are generally flat and straight. Have very little traffic, even fewer pedestrians, Long straight sections with an entry/exit point about one every 2-3 km. So once you’re on it there is not much in the way of traffic hazards.

Maybe I should take some photos next time I go for a ride to illustrate better. Seems a huge investment that is so vastly underutilised. I go out for an hour ride on a sunny Saturday or Sunday afternoon, and maybe only see another 10 riders all that time.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

Lets remember that cars are only supposed to go 50 in Bulit up suburban zones and 40 in school zones. I think a dedicated cycle path would still need to be slower…. because we all know that
Pedestrians don’t always stay off them

Yes fifty k’s an hour on a bicycle is very fast, most people would not go even half of that speed.

I’m open on the speed question. Perhaps down to 40, maybe even 30. I am wondering what is the butterzone for speed that would make it practicable as a form of transport but reasonably safe without needing too extensive modifications to an ordinary bicycle.

I rarely get above 25 km/h, usual sustained speed is about 20, but I ride a standard old school mountain bike. I get overtaken easily by the lycra-warriors with their light-weight racing bikes. Some of them must be pushing 30+ sustained speed.

I was thinking of a new category of “bicycle expressway” or something like that. The usual 200 W limit would not apply to this category. You ride along your ordinary suburban roads with engine off till you get to the entry gate for this special bicycle expressway and only use your engine on this pathway until you get to your exit, then you switch it off again. Sort of like a mini freeway system just for bicycles.

Perhaps 50 km/h is a bit too fast. But I’m interested in the principle.

Guess if you can peddle that fast, it would be down to sign posted speed limits. Remember, you are not permitted to ride ANY electric bike with a 500 or more watt battery on ANY road, except an off-road situation, because they do not require you to peddle and are similar to a small motorbike. With these you can easily get over 50 km/hr.

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Yes fifty k’s an hour on a bicycle is very fast, most people would not go even half of that speed.

I’m open on the speed question. Perhaps down to 40, maybe even 30. I am wondering what is the butterzone for speed that would make it practicable as a form of transport but reasonably safe without needing too extensive modifications to an ordinary bicycle.

I rarely get above 25 km/h, usual sustained speed is about 20, but I ride a standard old school mountain bike. I get overtaken easily by the lycra-warriors with their light-weight racing bikes. Some of them must be pushing 30+ sustained speed.

I was thinking of a new category of “bicycle expressway” or something like that. The usual 200 W limit would not apply to this category. You ride along your ordinary suburban roads with engine off till you get to the entry gate for this special bicycle expressway and only use your engine on this pathway until you get to your exit, then you switch it off again. Sort of like a mini freeway system just for bicycles.

Perhaps 50 km/h is a bit too fast. But I’m interested in the principle.

Guess if you can peddle that fast, it would be down to sign posted speed limits. Remember, you are not permitted to ride ANY electric bike with a 500 or more watt battery on ANY road, except an off-road situation, because they do not require you to peddle and are similar to a small motorbike. With these you can easily get over 50 km/hr.

peddle = pedal

PermeateFree said:

Guess if you can peddle that fast, it would be down to sign posted speed limits. Remember, you are not permitted to ride ANY electric bike with a 500 or more watt battery on ANY road, except an off-road situation, because they do not require you to peddle and are similar to a small motorbike. With these you can easily get over 50 km/hr.

I want to create a new and separate legal category where electric (or petrol) assisted bikes are permitted, within sensible limits.

I am trying to explore what those sensible limits might be around which we could draw the legal envelope.

If 50 km/h is too fast to be sensible I am open to reducing it to say 40 or even 30. The initial 50 was just my opening guess.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Guess if you can peddle that fast, it would be down to sign posted speed limits. Remember, you are not permitted to ride ANY electric bike with a 500 or more watt battery on ANY road, except an off-road situation, because they do not require you to peddle and are similar to a small motorbike. With these you can easily get over 50 km/hr.

I want to create a new and separate legal category where electric (or petrol) assisted bikes are permitted, within sensible limits.

I am trying to explore what those sensible limits might be around which we could draw the legal envelope.

If 50 km/h is too fast to be sensible I am open to reducing it to say 40 or even 30. The initial 50 was just my opening guess.

Any bicycle that is not pedal assisted is not really a bicycle, so you would be limited to that 250 watt category.

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Guess if you can peddle that fast, it would be down to sign posted speed limits. Remember, you are not permitted to ride ANY electric bike with a 500 or more watt battery on ANY road, except an off-road situation, because they do not require you to peddle and are similar to a small motorbike. With these you can easily get over 50 km/hr.

I want to create a new and separate legal category where electric (or petrol) assisted bikes are permitted, within sensible limits.

I am trying to explore what those sensible limits might be around which we could draw the legal envelope.

If 50 km/h is too fast to be sensible I am open to reducing it to say 40 or even 30. The initial 50 was just my opening guess.

Any bicycle that is not pedal assisted is not really a bicycle, so you would be limited to that 250 watt category.

You’re not getting it. I’ll ride out there tomorrow (weather permitting) and take some photos to illustrate the bicycle road in question .

To give you an idea of ideal speeds, if I may:

Elite riders in international-level races will average 40-44 km/hr unless there’s big hills along the way, where they will slow to 22km/hr on big hills, and regularly hit speeds of 90km/hr during long, straight descents.

Road bikes don’t have effective braking above 60km/hr. At that speed, the friction available between the road and the tyre is just not enough to make much difference, irrespective of whether rim or disc brake mechanisms are applied. Rim requires more pressure through the levers than disc, but the performance-limiting factor is not how hard the rider can squeeze the lever.

A strong amateur in light winds will average 32 km/hr, which is fast enough to make it comparable to or better than car in city driving.

Hope that helps.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Guess if you can peddle that fast, it would be down to sign posted speed limits. Remember, you are not permitted to ride ANY electric bike with a 500 or more watt battery on ANY road, except an off-road situation, because they do not require you to peddle and are similar to a small motorbike. With these you can easily get over 50 km/hr.

I want to create a new and separate legal category where electric (or petrol) assisted bikes are permitted, within sensible limits.

I am trying to explore what those sensible limits might be around which we could draw the legal envelope.

If 50 km/h is too fast to be sensible I am open to reducing it to say 40 or even 30. The initial 50 was just my opening guess.

I reckon 40km/hr is plenty fast enough in a mixed/shared/unpredictable urban corridor.

>>Maybe I should take some photos next time I go for a ride to illustrate better. Seems a huge investment that is so vastly underutilised. I go out for an hour ride on a sunny Saturday or Sunday afternoon, and maybe only see another 10 riders all that time.<<

This is interesting. It’s quite a few years since I walked around the shared paths near Mum and Dad’s in Box Hill North (Melbourne) and I can tell you, they were very well patronized on a sunny Sunday afternoon.

Bikes, pedalled or ridden by drug peddlers or not should all be on the cycleway section of the road. Footpaths have never been cycleways and should never be.

roughbarked said:

Bikes, pedalled or ridden by drug peddlers or not should all be on the cycleway section of the road. Footpaths have never been cycleways and should never be.

Don’t you have shared tracks in your state? There are a lot of them in Victoria. Including in this tiny town.

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

Bikes, pedalled or ridden by drug peddlers or not should all be on the cycleway section of the road. Footpaths have never been cycleways and should never be.

Don’t you have shared tracks in your state? There are a lot of them in Victoria. Including in this tiny town.

No. It has always been illegal to ride a bike on a footpath.

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

Bikes, pedalled or ridden by drug peddlers or not should all be on the cycleway section of the road. Footpaths have never been cycleways and should never be.

Don’t you have shared tracks in your state? There are a lot of them in Victoria. Including in this tiny town.

No. It has always been illegal to ride a bike on a footpath.

There are walkers who choose to use dedicated cycleways but if you ask me they are doing so at their own risk.

It is illegal to ride a bike on a footpath in Victoria (unless you are under 14 years of age, I think, although something got changed recently on that front). But we have a lot of shared pathways, for bikes and peds. They apparently mostly work well.

buffy said:

It is illegal to ride a bike on a footpath in Victoria (unless you are under 14 years of age, I think, although something got changed recently on that front). But we have a lot of shared pathways, for bikes and peds. They apparently mostly work well.

The shared places mean that people have to walk on the road between the lines where cars are supposed to give way to cycles.

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

It is illegal to ride a bike on a footpath in Victoria (unless you are under 14 years of age, I think, although something got changed recently on that front). But we have a lot of shared pathways, for bikes and peds. They apparently mostly work well.

The shared places mean that people have to walk on the road between the lines where cars are supposed to give way to cycles.

No, not in Victoria. They are the footpaths, designated as shared pathways. Not all footpaths, only those signed that way.

And you have them in NSW too:

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/bicyclists/using_shared_paths.html

buffy said:

And you have them in NSW too:

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/bicyclists/using_shared_paths.html

Yes but the cyclists don’t use them. The cyclists stay on the road and worry the car drivers.
They aren’t signposted as shared space. They have cycleway signs.

morning all. raining in Melton West. not that i am anywhere near there but FB doesn’t seem to realise that.

ChrispenEvan said:

morning all. raining in Melton West. not that i am anywhere near there but FB doesn’t seem to realise that.

Morning all.
Same problem here. FB et al seem to think I live with my ISP in Brissy.

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

And you have them in NSW too:

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/bicyclists/using_shared_paths.html

Yes but the cyclists don’t use them. The cyclists stay on the road and worry the car drivers.
They aren’t signposted as shared space. They have cycleway signs.

Sorry? Transport NSW thinks they are signed:

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/bicyclists/using_shared_paths.html

Rain here so no scootering down to the pub today using both roads and footpaths at the top speed of 19kmh…a lot slower on the footpath though.

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

And you have them in NSW too:

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/bicyclists/using_shared_paths.html

Yes but the cyclists don’t use them. The cyclists stay on the road and worry the car drivers.
They aren’t signposted as shared space. They have cycleway signs.

Sorry? Transport NSW thinks they are signed:

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/bicyclists/using_shared_paths.html

Oh well. They must be in other places. Not here
but then nobody around here seems to know what signs mean anyway.

they could just allow the rule of motorised bicycles are allowed on these paths.

As the rules stand, anything over a certain power is no longer classed as motorised and fits into the motorcycle class.
Including all relevant ADRs, light, brakes, noise, rego, etc….

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

Yes but the cyclists don’t use them. The cyclists stay on the road and worry the car drivers.
They aren’t signposted as shared space. They have cycleway signs.

Sorry? Transport NSW thinks they are signed:

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/bicyclists/using_shared_paths.html

Oh well. They must be in other places. Not here
but then nobody around here seems to know what signs mean anyway.

We overcame that difficulty in FNQ. We don’t have signs for anything.

Tamb said:

You had signs – but they were all shot off their posts by local cowboys from passing cars.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

Sorry? Transport NSW thinks they are signed:

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/bicyclists/using_shared_paths.html

Oh well. They must be in other places. Not here
but then nobody around here seems to know what signs mean anyway.

We overcame that difficulty in FNQ. We don’t have signs for anything.

:)

mcgoon said:

Tamb said:

You had signs – but they were all shot off their posts by local cowboys from passing cars.

Nah. That’s the Territory.

Tamb said:

mcgoon said:

Tamb said:

You had signs – but they were all shot off their posts by local cowboys from passing cars.

Nah. That’s the Territory.

You had signs – but they were all shot off their posts by visiting cowboys from passing cars.

Fixed

mcgoon said:

Tamb said:

You had signs – but they were all shot off their posts by local cowboys from passing cars.

!https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/freaks-and-geeks-mailbox-baseball.jpg!

stumpy_seahorse said:

mcgoon said:

Tamb said:

You had signs – but they were all shot off their posts by local cowboys from passing cars.

This certainly happens after cyclones

Sunday morning, and T-28s flying around Toowoomba, including this one:

Should have been in ‘chat’ – sorry.

party_pants said:

Based on the bike paths around here that run along the freeway reserve, They are generally flat and straight. Have very little traffic, even fewer pedestrians, Long straight sections with an entry/exit point about one every 2-3 km. So once you’re on it there is not much in the way of traffic hazards.

Maybe I should take some photos next time I go for a ride to illustrate better. Seems a huge investment that is so vastly underutilised. I go out for an hour ride on a sunny Saturday or Sunday afternoon, and maybe only see another 10 riders all that time.

I used to ride that path to get my 90kms in, that’s a good path for fast riding,and not really a pedestrian path because of the distances between stops. There the motorised cycle would be great for getting from one point to another (ie not just leisure riding)

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

Don’t you have shared tracks in your state? There are a lot of them in Victoria. Including in this tiny town.

No. It has always been illegal to ride a bike on a footpath.

There are walkers who choose to use dedicated cycleways but if you ask me they are doing so at their own risk.

in my experience the risk is to the cyclist

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

No. It has always been illegal to ride a bike on a footpath.

There are walkers who choose to use dedicated cycleways but if you ask me they are doing so at their own risk.

in my experience the risk is to the cyclist

Yes. It can be scary shit.

I took some pitchers:

Long, straightish, flatish sections of good smooth path, because it goes alongside the freeway built for cars and trucks there are no tight bends or steep hills, Alonmg this stretch of path there should be some safe and sensible option for power-assisted bicycles. Maybe 40 km/h would be plenty.

Entry point – Safety Bay Road. It is actually signed as a dual use, but not very often you see any pedestrians or joggers.

We also get a lot of this sort of thing around here, signposted as dual use. This would not be suitable for motor assisted cycling given how bendy and twisty it is. But I thought I chuck it in.

party_pants said:

Gosh, that’s a wide path. Ours are only half that. It takes co-operation. And not much traffic.

:)

party_pants said:

We also get a lot of this sort of thing around here, signposted as dual use. This would not be suitable for motor assisted cycling given how bendy and twisty it is. But I thought I chuck it in.

I like this one. Come to think of it, anything smooth and concrete would be nice. Ours in the sticks tend to be gravel tracks.

You can ride or walk into Hamilton from Tarrington if you want to. I think it’s about 8km.